₦airaland Forum

MacDaddy01: Yes....christianity....God sending a Jew to commit suicide in order to save man from a tortuture chamber that God himself created. Genius!

Not just that. . .ONLY a foooooool will believe that the universe was created according to the genesis creation account written in the bible. . .

wiegraf: I have a friend who slept 'behind counter' at a police station for allegedly stealing a pipi. Remarkably (or not), despite falling prey to the effects of this sort of inanity this very same (university trained) guy would later argue with me about the thief that turned to a goat claim that was on nta.

NTA used to report about people turning into tubers of yam when we were kids. . .Vanguard news paper reported that a guy turned into a motor bike as of 2011. . .The Nigerian news outlets are all filled with myth believing reporters that keep on bandying nonsense and outright stupidity. . .

Shut up ooman!!. . .

All atheist in the house, go and study the second law of thermodynamics. . .

Go have some shots of ogogoro and sleep. . .

Reyginus: Lolololol. Like I told logicboy, it actually. As a pseudo-friend, there are certain scenarios that call for close examination of our penis. Like when we urinate on shrubs in a file.

And you saw that of all the people whose privates were stolen?. . .

Reyginus: Lolololol. Actually, in the sense of the original, it disappears.

Did you see it before it disappeared . . .

Reyginus: Not really that it dissappeared. The thing will become like that of a newborn.

How did you know that the person's p e n i s was not like that before?. . .Did you go about looking and the privates of other men and seeing it change in size?. . .

ooman: SHUT UP AND REFER TO MY QUOTE OF WIKIPEDIA.

All hail ooman. . .I am really laughing out loud at this one. . .

ooman is another wild card. . .The atheist version of OBADIAH and Bugzee. . .

Seun what the the hell is cores . . .G e n i t a l s not cores. . .

Reyginus: Muskeeto, you should have been around suleja niger state, Feb 2012. A trial would have convinced you.

Nothing like that exist, its all all an urban legend. . .I witnessed one some years ago in Bauchi state, and it turned out to be a set up. . .A rich guy displaced a poor guy and took his woman. . .The poor guy then set the rich guy up and accused him of stealing the genitals of his friend. . .the rich guy was descended upon and almost beaten to death by the mob. . .The guys that set him up relied on the fact that is it a sin for muslims to see the private parts of each other. . .The mob that gathered around ,just believed his genitals were stolen and went on rampage. . .But it was all a lie. . .Genital theft remains an urban legend. . .

What is ooman on about?. . . .

What makes our lives meaningful is that we find the activities we engage in to be worthwhile. Atheims is all about the here and now. We have one life to leave and as such we should make the best use of it. . .I know that religion bribes people with the myth of the after life, but the here and now is actually the most important to us all. Even the theist that keep talking about the after life all cry and wail when they come face to face with death. . .Our determination to carry out projects we have created for ourselves gives our lives meaning. The things that make us happy and give our lives meaning like family, friends, good food, sex, educationalaccomplishments, music, sports and other forms of entertainment are not eternal but they all give our lives meaning. We feel that life is meaningless when most of our desires which we regard as important are frustrated. Whether we regard life as meaningful or meaningless depends on the degree to which our important desires are frustrated. The judgments that we make about our lives on these points are the same regardless of whether one's life is eternal or not or whether it is part of a greater purpose or not. Perhaps the secret to a meaningful life is to focus on those desires which we can fulfill and diminish those which we cannot provided that we know the difference between the two.

Life is very meaningful own its own. . .It doesn't require any divine intention to make it meaningful. . .We chose to give our lives meaning by engaging in activities that make us live happy lives which translates to meaning. . . .From the fact that death is inevitable it does not follow that nothing we do matters now. On the contrary, our lives matter a great deal to us. If they did not, we would not find the idea of our own death so distressing it wouldn't matter that our lives will come to an end. The here and now matters because what we do in the here and now is what makes our life meaningful. Meaning all depends on an individual. . .

Logicboy03: Dont mind the guy...how can people buy nannies? Is there a nanny market where they are sold?


As for the footballers, it is actually their value and contracts that are being bought, not the players! The clubs do not own the players. The players are only under contractual and employment agreements.

The slaver owns the slave

Just imagine, according to the bible this is god speaking here. . .

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. Exodus 21:2-6

It talks about belonging to a master freedom. . .How can he compare this to nannies and footballers?. . .

Logicboy03: Inesqr is a pseudo-intellectual.

Twisting here and there, throwing illogical arguments eg slaves in the bible are not "real slaves"....no problem of freewill with omnipotence in his worldview etc. ==============


Uyi Iredia, I hope that you can see the denial that christianity causes? Goodluck to you, bro

I just tire, he said god did not instruct them on slavery but only permitted them. . .The bible says other wise. . .It clearly has god instructing them on how to purchase slaves and how to go about it. . .

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. Leviticus 25:44-46

InesQor: Don't you "buy" a Nanny by paying for her services on the hour, or a salary at the end of the month? What exactly is your point? How else do we get servants? Don't employers buy their employees?

To strike it further home, don't football clubs BUY players? Are the players slaves?

No body buys a Nanny. . .No body also sells a nanny. . .Footballers are bought according to their will and paid very huge salaries. . . Employers do NOT buy their employees they pay their for services rendered. . .Pls do not go to ridiculous heights to justify old myths. . .Slavery is VERY wrong in what ever form or shape at least according to the already evolved moral perception we hold today. . .

InesQor: Which is why I showed the Hebrew words, no?

The hewbrew words you showed were wrong cos their real meaning means slave not servant. . .The English translation renders it as servant. .It actually means slave. . .

So if you agree that the condition of Hebrew bondmen is FAR ABOVE that of a slavery, then WHAT EXACTLY are we arguing about? Is this not the same thing I said, that they are like butlers and cleaners in a household?

Even your encyclopaedia link above clearly supports my argument. See what the link says:


So WHAT EXACTLY is your point? Can't we all see that Hebrew servants are treated different from slaves no matter their origin of bond?

It's things like this that make me feel sometimes you guys just want to argue with Theists for the sake of it, and we end up wasting precious time.

The bottom line is simple. . .The context in which it was written only makes sense if it is slavery. . .How can a man sell his daughter to be a servant?. . .Will you sell your daughter to be a servant to another man?. . . And what the hell is it about a god ordering people to enslave each other in the first place?. . .

Alfamann: Ewu. So buying people is alright as long as they are not called slaves?
Aaahhh! Christianity will one day make me commit some wicked act I tell you. What is wrong with you people!?

I just can't get it. . .The words only make sense if it means slaves because you can only buy and sell slaves not paid servants. . .

InesQor: Why do we do what? I was replying to Logicboy's particular verse. And even this one that you have supplied also DOES NOT tell that God instructed them to sell their own daughters into slavery. This is untrue. There is a big difference between bondservants and manservants/maidservants.

This is the original KJV reading. I do not know what version you read, that rendered "maidservant" or "servant" as slave.

Exo 21:1 Now these are the judgments which thou shalt set before them.
Exo 21:2 If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.
Exo 21:3 If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.
Exo 21:4 If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master's, and he shall go out by himself.
Exo 21:5 And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:
Exo 21:6 Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.
Exo 21:7 And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.
Exo 21:8 If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.
Exo 21:9 And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.
Exo 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.
Exo 21:11 And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.

The word used is the Hebrew word אמה 'âmâh meaning meaning maidservant, and the other usage in verse 2 is the Hebrew word עבד ‛ebed meaning male attendant (manservant).

As long as there is poverty in a society, some people MUST serve the richer ones.

For the sake of an example, Jacob was a manservant to Laban for SEVEN YEARS (just like in verse 2) before he could marry Leah then another SEVEN YEARS before he could marry Rachel. He SOLD HIMSELF into the contract. Was he a slave?

In fact, God directly SAID that any one who, driven by poverty, sells himself as a BOND SERVANT (also known as slave), MUST NOT be allowed to be a bondservant (slave) but instead should be a hired servant i.e. one who is working in your employment until debts are paid off (which is more respectable than begging or stealing in my opinion).

Lev 25:38 I am the Lord your God, Who brought you forth out of the land of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan and to be your God.
Lev 25:39 And if your brother becomes poor beside you and sells himself to you, you shall not compel him to serve as a bondman (a slave not eligible for redemption),
Lev 25:40 But as a hired servant and as a temporary resident he shall be with you; he shall serve you till the Year of Jubilee,
Lev 25:41 And then he shall depart from you, he and his children with him, and shall go back to his own family and return to the possession of his fathers.
Lev 25:42 For the Israelites are My servants; I brought them out of the land of Egypt; they shall not be sold as bondmen. [I Cor. 7:23.]
Lev 25:43 You shall not rule over him with harshness (severity, oppression), but you shall [reverently] fear your God. [Eph. 6:9; Col. 4:1.]

So I don't know where you were coming from. Maidservants and manservants are like butlers and housekeepers or cleaners that we have in employment in the modern world. Are they slaves?

You guys KEEP spinning things all the time . . .Firstly the english transalation of the bible is almost useless because it does NOT tell the true stroy, many words have been changed in many places. . For example in many places that other gods were named the english bible changes it and used the name LORD. . . The Jewish encyclopedia has it that the real word is SLAVE not servant. . . You claim the word עבד ‛ebed means male attendant (manservant) but the Jewish encyclopedia says its not true. The hebrew word for hired worker or servant is sakhir

The Hebrew word "'ebed" really means "slave"; but the English Bible renders it "servant" (a) where the word is used figuratively, pious men being "servants of the Lord" (Isa. xx. 3), and courtiers "servants of the king" (Jer. xxxvii. 2); and (b) in passages which refer to Hebrew bondmen, whose condition is far above that of slavery (Ex. xxi. 2-7). Where real slaves are referred to, the English versions generally use "bondman" for "'ebed," and "bondwoman" or "bondmaid" for the corresponding feminines (Lev. xxv. 49).

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13799-slaves-and-slavery

Ihedinobi: And, of course, I asked, that's why you're offering me such a tantalizing deal

I have been following your hogwash reply here with lots of amazement, you evenh deny basic facts to further your belief in mythical stories written by ancient savages. . .Taken literally, there is nothing in the OT myth that can be described as approaching 'love'. The old testament is a racist diatribe glorifying the imagined trials and tribulations, as well as genocidal rampage of a single group of human beings. The only justification it offers for itself is that this group of human beings are somehow more 'significant' than any other group of human beings by some divine authority they alone cooked up.

Now, ignoring that virtually none of it actually occurred as described as it relates to actual and real history , even if we gave it the benefit of the doubt it would still be a violent and racist series of 'stories'. So what exactly is supposed to be love as uyi has been asking you since?

Notice that you don't really offer any true explanation as to how it is love or exactly what is love to uyi, you instead just reduce your answer to a single pleaded statement,"god is a loving god." and you expect uyi to accept it with out showing how.

Has all you have written down tell us how any of the OT show any bigger picture? No.

Does it tell us why? No.

Does it even reasonably offer any explanatory information whatsoever beyond the self reinforcing platitude? No.

What exactly are you on about?. . .

Ihedinobi: Like I said, for someone whose policy is believe and let believe or whatever, your antagonism is quite interesting.

Now, my entire argument is dismissed as hogwash because...what? You can't believe that there is a bigger picture that accommodates the pain than the pain itself. Ok then, I assume that, if you have kids, you never innoculated them against the various illnesses that could have killed them, or, if you don't, you won't when you do. I also assume that you'll spare your kids the strain of homework because they're nice, little darlings that cry when they have to do homework, if they aren't there yet or haven't grown enough to deal with homework.

Let me know, if you will, how much pain is justifiable in the short term for a long term reward or for a bigger picture.

And the bigger picture of all the massacres in the OT is what?. . .If you tell me, I will also tell you about the bigger picture of Allah's plans which he is using boko haram to carry out. . . .

InesQor: God permitted them to trade in slaves, people captured from other nations or who have borrowed themselves into debt. He did not instruct them to trade in slaves. Can you not see the difference?

44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.

False, according to the bible god even told the jews to sell their own daughters into slavery. . .Why do you guys keep doing this?

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. Exodus 21:7-11

alexleo: No, dont be tired bros. General overseer, holy ghost holocaust ministry. When you succeed in converting them by your much effort we shall humbly come and lay our offerings at your feet for the great feat you achieved. Go on brother.

Was it not this same alexloe that set up a challenged for the atheist and FAILED?. . .Why is he trying to mock and berate another of his compatriot in the god is real movement?. . .

.https://www.nairaland.com/445085/chalenge-huxleykay-17ogaga4luv-other-atheists#6032417. . .

InesQor: @OP:

I'm theist so I hope I'm permitted here.

It happens to everyone, as long as you're running against the wind. I'm a Christian with very unconventional beliefs; and it doesn't help that I used to be a kind of pastor (now I don't buy into a lot of what I used to teach) and most of my oldest acquaintances still hold on the beliefs I've discarded. I eventually became a lone ranger and learnt to stop having religious conversations with old friends except they particularly insist on hearing my opinion. In general, I avoid the topic or when I MUST respond, I
just parry it off with a smart response. So they'll leave me alone.

You'll either learn to keep your worldviews to yourself and tell only willing ears, or else live a life of pretense to protect your worldviews against discrimination.

@

You are always on point. . .

musKeeto:

Imagine?. . . .WOW!. . .The lies people tell themselves. . .

alexleo: You are just giving yourself unnecessary headache. They are referring to whatever god (may be god of thunder or god of ukwungwo)which is not our 'God'. Ignore them and face more important things. You people have time for useless posts and writings.

. . .Rememeber your last challenge to all the atheist in the house that FAILED TERRIBLY?. . .https://www.nairaland.com/445085/chalenge-huxleykay-17ogaga4luv-other-atheists#6032417. . . .You forgot the fact that your god failed you and refused to show up. . .he remained as imaginary as always and never showed up to help you out. . .Now you are still here spewing more drivel, eh?. . .

alexleo: I still insist that you should have a serious encounter with God who can best clear you. It is not fair enough for you to allow other people to tell you reason why God took certain actions. For example, If i take an action and you want to find out why i took the action, wouldn't it be best to hear directly from me than reading what other people make out of my action as my reason for doing it(as you are doing here now and in the books you said you ve read). Investigative journalism requires that you have a direct contact with an environment or person or thing you are investigating in order to come out with a solid and complete report. They take all the pains that is also involved to make sure they carry out a thorough investigation. Now, you have an issue with God over some actions he took and here you are looking for books and people that ll explain to you why God took that action. My dear brother thats not fair and balanced enough. None of us can give you better explanation than God himself. And for you to communicate with God you must follow the due process.
1. You must be holy for you to hear from him.
2. you must have the Holy spirit in you because Jesus told us that He(the Holy Spirit) will guide us into ALL TRUTHS when he comes into us.
In this days of the Holy Spirit, God speaks to us thru the Holy Spirit and no more like in the days of Elijah. The Holy Spirit also remains the best interpreter of the scriptures. And of course you know that all scriptures are written through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
For you to be holy you must come to God with a broken and contrite heart, when he has washed you with the blood of Jesus you ask him for the Holy Spirit, when the Holy Spirit comes into you nobody will tell you. Same also when God cleanses your heart from all unrighteousness both the ones committed in thoughts, actions and in words. By the time you experience these in your life, you will see God answering you smoothly. We are created in God's image and as human being we like people reaching out to us through certain procedure, same with God. He has his procedures, Elijah, Moses, Peter, Paul, James etc followed it and they enjoyed God to the extent that they were not afraid to die for the course of the gospel.

The last time you spoke to god what specifically did he tell you?. . .

Here in Europe most people are atheist any way. . .In Denmark being religious is out of fashion. . .In Nigeria just keep your atheistic beliefs to yourself if you want to have a cordial relationship with people, if you are very rich and famous then you can easily let them know about your atheism, but as long as you are just the man next door keep your beliefs to your self. . .You can't reason with people that are willfully ignorant. . .people that still believe in juju, charms, demons, devils, gods and all those mythical nonsense out there. . .

Ihedinobi: Lol. Do I normally quote Scriptures to people like you? I'd rather you tell me when god appeared to you and told you he's not all-knowing. As long as knowledge is finite, then it is possible to know everything, borrowing Anony's argument. Thus omniscience is possible. You wanna counter that?

You are the one making the claim about god talking to people and telling people about him. . .No god will rely on you to make his case for him if any god exist in the first place that you are trying and failing only says that you only want people to share you imaginary beliefs. . .When did any god appear to you and tell you he is all knowing?. . .When did any god tell you personally that he knows everything?. . .

I have never heard it said that any of their holy books holds that it is impossible to leave their faith. Christianity's does.

The fact that you haven't heard doesn't mean its not there in their holy books as well. . .

Ihedinobi: Lol. You know that your questions and arguments are premised on the notion that you know better than an all-knowing God, right? Well, do you want to take this opportunity to show us how you do. That you have no conception of the good that can come out of the troubles and evils people face does not mean that there is no good that can come out of them any more than an ignorance on your part of the fact that the Chinese have amazing proverbs does not mean that they don't.

And god appeared to you and told you he is all knowing when?. . .Or are you going to start quoting verse from the story book called the bible whose authors are mostly unknown and created their own concept of god that remains imaginary?. . .

Lol. People 'leave' Christianity because they were never in it in the first place, my friend. And where is all this insensible stuff you keep referring to? Uh, and where are these Christians who are seeing through this nonsense that you haven't described yet?

Edited.

Sure, just like people leave islam and hinduism because they were never muslims and hindus in the fistt place right?. . .

Image123: It borders on ignorance or extreme thoughtlessness to compare Stalin to those men above. Perhaps, Obama and Bush are no different from Stalin to you as well since they are also involved in wars. Dunno which Jehu you are referring to, and his 'crimes'. but as for the rest (Moses, David, Elijah and Joshua) i can vouch for them as excellent men , more excellent than you will ever be as an atheist. They are different from you and Stalin as they believe in Jehovah God. Stalin didn't believe in God, he was self centred and accountable to no one, as it were. These men were rulers and conquerors accountable to God and not self-centred like Stalin and all atheists.
-How Stalin who imprisoned several million people in correction labour camps is comparable to Moses or David or Elijah or Joshua beats the imagination and leaves much to be desired.
-Stalin had a cult of personality, calling himself names like (Father of Nations, Brilliant genius of humanity, Gardener of Human Happiness, Liberator of nations, Life and Sun), naming several places and prizes after himself, several statues of himself, and forcing his name into the national anthem. None of the righteous men you named did these. Hopefully, you can see how they are different.
-Stalin was a communist, condemned on numerous occasions in his lifetime and after his death, regarded worldwide as a tyrant and dictator, a notrious bank robber and a ransom kidnapper, an extortionist. None of those godly men did any of these. Perhaps you may now spot the difference.
- Ever heard of Stalin's forced collectivization, where he starved peasants until it was common sight to see their dead bodies on the streets? Where it was a crime to be found eating or gleaning? A time when millions were dying of hunger and Stalin was exporting grain and refusing to release grain reserves to the populace, also forcing and preventing staving peasants from fleeing? Ever read or heard of stalin's Holodomor, a catastrophic famine that led to the death of millions? Have you heard about the Great Purge where hundreds of thousands were executed by Stalin in rigged show-trials and forced confessions and torture, all in a bid to consolidate the authority of Joseph Stalin? you see no difference between such a man and Elijah, Joshua, David and Moses? You're more pathetic than i thought. Goes to show the kind of heart that atheists have, and what they would do without batting an eyelid or having as much as a guilty conscience if given the opportunity of power, or determining right and wrong. When one sees Stalin's actions as normal and equal to the lives of King David and Moses, thee is cause for worry. These are the people we are giving and clamouring rights for. May God save us.

What is this drivel all about?. . . . . . .If Moses, Joshua, Elijah etc were alive today and did what ever was written about them in the bible, they would have been arrested and locked up as war criminals. . .That is the FACT. . .