₦airaland Forum

Image123: hehehe have you been able to prove that there is no God? when you die, you'll know, don't be so bothered like us na.

Anony the giver that never stops giving. . .Any way I will like to hear your input on the thread I created https://www.nairaland.com/1213492/how-know-right-religion-right Thanks. . .

vedaxcool: Islam is the right religion because its message is not time bound, that is people irrespective of time could have easily practice the religion, let me put it like this, the message is there is no diety worthy of worship except Allah, this remains the message that Islam has all been about, Allah guided mankind at different age with the same message, worship the one true God and obey his commandment, the Qur'an tells us every nations was guided by God, and he sent messengers to every nation on earth, who guided these people to the path of worship of God and legislature which maintained law and order in the society

Why do you keep repeating this lie over and over again?. . .Pls tell me the name of the propeht that was sent to the ancient Egyptians 5000 years ago?. . .We have the egyptian book of the dead and Ra is the only true god it mentions not allah. . .What about the followers of zeus? What messenger was sent to them and the ancient indians that lived 4 thousand years ago?. . .Non of their propehts(gurus) that were sent by their gods mentioned allah any where and their mode of worship and message is completely different from what is found in the koran. . .

Furthermore we learnt that this religion deviated from their true messages etc, hence they became aldultrated with practices that are not what was commanded, moving forward for a religion to be true it practices must not be time bound that is depending on actions of certain individual, islam passes this, it must not be a race stuff, that is members of a certain race are allowed exclusive position, in essence it must be a religion open to all, the religion must be clear in its message and not being everything to everybody, the religion must not be a cacus thing, that is certain individuals are the only ones who have deep knowledge of it practices like most African tradition religion its practices seems to depend on priest who alone knows the practices, the religion must not contradict claims it make in other word had this book been from any other than Allah, you would find in it many contradictions, the religion must be practicable or must have been practice, the religion must be free from strange logic like worshipping an object that claims to be deity but cannot even utter a word . . . Islam does not only surpasses this expectation but provides more that humanity would eventually benefit from!

Why are islamic society not more developed or better than non islamic societies?. . .We have Saudi Arabia and Iran as a model of islamic societies. . . .Why are the not better than other societies if islam offers anything special to mankind that can not be found in other societies?. . .

delkuf: That is where u miss it. xtianity is not a religion. this way u have faith in d relatnship with ur galfrnd, that it will wrk or grow, thats dsame way we have faith in God, and His son Jesus Christ

Islam is also not a religion as well. . .

MacDaddy01: This is a question many people cant answer.

Generally, what you hear one of the following sorts of replies to the question of "why is your religion or god the right one?'

- My religion/god is the right one because it is the right one.

- My religion/god is the right one because it is so obvious it is the right one.

- My religion/god is right because it has proved to me it is right.

Now, these are not said explicitly, but implied:

- My religion is right because my religious leaders told me it is.

- My religion is right because it is the religion of my /family/culture and surrounding society, and we are the best.

I am just waiting for any body that will give me a specific reason with observable evidence as to why one god/religion is better than the others. . . .

delkuf: There is nothing like a right religion because religion itself is wrong. And xtianity is not religion. is a way of life, a relatnship. islam may claim their's is d one true religion, but xtianity is not

Christianity remains a religion just like islam and shinto for example. . .Christianity also claims its the only faith that offers the right relationship with god. . .How did you come to this conclusion?. . .Did any god appear to you and tell you this himself?. . . How did you choose the beliefs you hold, and reject other similar beliefs? Why do children tend to adopt the religion of their parents or home culture, and not drift towards whichever is the 'correct' choice?

Whether you are a christian, a muslim, a jew, a hindu, or something else, you presumably think that the other choices are wrong, and for sure they think you are wrong. What methodology did you use to pick the right one from all the wrong ones? And how do you explain the fact that most of the world's population did not reach the same conclusion you did , wouldn't an almighty god be kind of a powerful influence to have on your side, if you were correct?

So far we have been arguing endlessly about god, religion and traditions for many years here. . .Let me assume that there is a god for the sake of this thread. I read a material on line and decided to use some of it here to form the basis of this topic . .How exactly can one know that his god and his religion are the true ones?. . .What specific evidence is there to provide that your own god is the true god and your religious faith the right one compared to all the thousands of gods and religions out there?. . .How exactly can you determine that your choice was correct, and all the other variants wrong?

Most christains and muslims claim there is only one god, how can one determine this and what observable evidence is available to support this claim? In the bible, it has god saying repeatedly that he is the best among all the other gods, and that people should not worship the others which kind of implies that even he know that there were other gods. The koran says there is no god but allah also implying the same. So even the choice of monotheism seems dodgy, based only on your own religion's source material which are the religious books written by men and what ever concept of god they have in mind.

For those who believe in a particular religion and god, how did you manage to work out that not only monotheism, and say that christianity (and not islam or judaism) was the right path? What evidence did you use? Did you make this choice as an adult, after long and careful study of islam, judaism, sikhism, hinduism and shinto etc? Or did you 'choose' the religion that adults told you was the right one, perhaps even when you were a child, without having given a thought for all those other possibilities?

Isn't it strange, that if one of the major world religions is right, and the others wrong, god has not bothered to take steps to inspire all the people in places where they get it wrong to change direction?

Isn't it odd that children born all over the world overwhelmingly grow up with the religion of their parents, and rarely convert to a different, presumably more correct, religion? Isn't it odd that those few that do convert move in all directions , not just towards the one 'true' faith, but away from it as well?

To me all of this is easily explained if all of these religious positions are simply wrong, but it is very hard to explain if any of them are right. . . .

davidylan: You have things confused. To the unregenerated/unsaved soul, God has given you free will to do whatever you want.

Deut 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;

Verse 15 makes it abundantly clear the choices set before you.

The verses you quoted are directed SPECIFICALLY to the christian... the very definition of whom is one who has died to self/will to let Jesus take over as Lord of his life - Galatians 2:20 - I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In summary... there are two classes of people involved.

1. The unsaved... they have freewill to choose whatever they want.

2. The saved... who have chosen OF THEIR OWN FREEWILL to give [/b]up a life solely devoted to self to let God's will take preeminence in their lives.

again not supported by the bible. . .

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me[b] unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

Where is the free will when according to the bible god chooses to have mercy on whom ever he will and hardens whom ever he wills?. . .

davidylan: that is your opinion bro. It certainly isnt supported by any evidence at all.

We have discussed this long ago. . .

Php 2:13[b] for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure[/b].

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

Rom 8:28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Rom 9:10 And not only so, but also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac,
Rom 9:11[b] though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad--in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls[/b]--
Rom 9:12 she was told, "The older will serve the younger."
Rom 9:13 As it is written, "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means!
Rom 9:15 For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."
Rom 9:16[b] So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. [/b]
Rom 9:17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth."
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Rom 9:19 You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?"
Rom 9:20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?"
Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?
Rom 9:22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction,
Rom 9:23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began

There are many more but these will do. . .the bible mostly talks about god's will not free will. . .Some hint of free will can be found here or there but it mostly talks about its god's will that supersede's everything. . .

davidylan: this is quite confusing to be honest. It appears to me that your thinking here does not follow any logical train.

1. How does freewill solve the evil problem? By nature, freewill means the CHOICE to choose between good and evil. Are you saying that if man had the freewill to do anything he will by nature ALWAYS choose to do good?

2. lol if God can "freely will" man to do his bidding then how is that still freewill? I mean do you see the oxymoron here?

3. lol again your last line is nonsense... freewill means giving man the choice to choose between good and evil. If God simply willed every man to do good then man no longer has free will which of course is anathema to you.

Just that the free will doctrine is non biblical. . .

aletheia: "Morality" - the tattered fig leaves that nairaland atheists desperately cling to - all in a bid to escape the inescapable reality that atheists are constitutionally incapable of doing any good deed. Yes the bible says so:
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. (Isa 64:6)

But of course figuratively, fig leaves represent man's effort at covering the unclothedness of sin - what basically amounts to the atheist's "morality". But as God Himself showed Adam & Eve, only by the shedding of blood can covering be provided.

1. Any "good" deed done by an atheist is like the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. It is pleasant to the eyes, and desirous but the end result is death. So like poison which may have the "good" qualities of smelling and tasting good but nonetheless filled with gall are the "good" acts of atheists.

2. All good deeds done by a Christian are good indeed like fruit from the tree of life. As it is written:
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
(Psa 1:1-6)

Thus the atheist and the Christian are like two trees. The evil atheist tree can only bear evil fruit no matter how good it may appear unto men. And the good Christian tree can only bear good fruit unto the Lord.

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. (Mat 7:17-18)

. . .This delusion pass my power. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony2]......and your personal worldview is?[/quote]When it comes to religion that is my world view. . . .All gods and religions were created by men.

cyrexx: One thousand likes.
Honestly, anyone who needs a religious book to tell him before he knows that ra.pe is wrong should be left to his delusions or else he becomes a danger to society.

People like Anony really needs their prescriptive drugs, that is, their delusions of god-medicine .

You've said it all. . . .

[quote author=Mr_Anony2]Prove him wrong and....define precisely what your personal worldview is.[/quote]That all god(s) and religions were created by men. . .Men created all the laws and moral codes of conduct they chose to abide by and those laws are always changing or evolving. . .

toba: Just shut up kid. False things like the non existing God is wicked, is that also false?

This is how it goes. .Christians claim that god is love and the use the same bible to point to passages that shows their god is love. .Atheist simply open to the same bible and show them passages or stories that also show that their god does not even know what love is. . .Simple. .

Ndipe: Everybody gotta admit that we live in a dog eat dog world filled with competition and bragado on the latest purchases, be it Gucci, Samsung Galaxi, a million dollar house, etc, and in most instances, such purchases are bound to evoke envy and spite in the lives of certain people. This leads to a rise in armed robbery, prostitution and all vices imaginable in today's society. So, few days ago, I kept wondering if our forefathers were indeed happier than our present generation. We know that they were not materialistic as we are, but were contented to walk barefoot, (some of us want the best shoes), live in modest thatch roof homes, and at evenings, gather at the village square to regale one another with folk talks under moonlight. We dare not incorporate that into our lives for fear of being left behind or worse, being ridiculed by our mates as being crass. Hence, the need to compete with another another, and the competition can be left brutal. But the quality of life in those days were not great, people walked miles and miles to places and even had to forego travelling because of the distance. In a whim, we can be in Paris, for a holiday as long as we have some money in our account. We can hop from one bar to another to sample exotic drinks (not kaikai or palmwine) and stroll to the mall for shopping.

But are we happier than our forefathers who did not have these privileges or were they happier?

Happy being slaves or selling others off as slaves abi?. . .

musKeeto: ^^^^
And people would usually spice up these stories.

@Ishi: is there any Bible verse that explains these symptoms? Or are these mere superstitions based on too much naija film?

Question: why would a demon
press you while you sleep? Is the
demon pressing you physically or
spiritually? To what end?

I TIRE ohhh. . . .

Is this an imposter or has anony really sunk down to new lows?. .

So now its spirits that bring rain, eh?. .Interesting. . .

tobechi74: Logic boy, is op ur son?

Is there anything in the OP that is wrong or false?. . .

ooman: Someone has to say it, so I'll do it - There is no "god". Period. It a childishly obvious fairy tale, and, like Santa Claus and Superman, should never be believed by an adult with a working brain.

Believers of the ancient god-fables will of course rail at that pronouncement. Well, sorry, but they've had 2000 years to make their case and all they've managed to do is make a lot of people very miserable. They have resorted to everything from the Manchurian Candidate-style brainwashing of defenseless children (see Jesus Camp), to torture and murder, to genocide and religious war and still can't prove that their alleged deity exists. Threats and intimidation have always been much more persuasive for them than the merits of the concept. Despite the efforts of their best minds, they have manage to produce only the lamest of arguments. In the end they are left with the same tools as any charlatans - pretty lies, a story that is just too good to be true. Can't collect until after you're dead and no one ever asks for their money back.

For the beginners, atheism is quite simple - where theism means a "belief in god(s)", a-theism means "without a belief in god(s)". Essentially it pertains to those who do not subscribe to the ancient god-fables. It is the default state of all Humans from birth. In its basic form it is not an assertion that god does not exist, it is simply the philosophical position that one does not happen to share that particular belief. It is merely an "Excuse me?" response to an unbelievable tale. Atheism in its "harder" form is the clear recognition the all god claims are merely ancient mythology and are obviously false.

I take a slightly different position which may cause philosophical purists some heartburn. I assert with confidence that "god" does not exist. Purists would take issue with my apparent assertion of a negative proof. That is not the case, however. I agree that a negative cannot be proven. The burden of proof is obviously and necessarily on the affirmative position - the one that claims that god does exist - rather than on those who failed to fall for it.. As yet, those making that rather extraordinary claim have yet to provide one single shred of objective, irrefutable evidence in support of their claim.
I arrive at my position from another direction. If I come to you and tell you that invisible beings are present in the room with us, but that I just made them up, you will still be unable to prove that they don't exist. And yet it will be obvious and factual that they do not exist. It will be quite clear that it is an invention and there is certainly no rational reason to "believe" it (and probably very good reasons not to).

To me, it's as if the god fables are presented anew. It is known that the current version of "god" was invented and modified by a committee of vested interests within recorded history. The evolution of "god", from early polydeities to the currently accepted and locally popular version of a single omnipotent deity, is well documented. It is a confabulation of previous myths which were then discarded. "God" is a distilled and finely tuned anthropomorphic manifestation of the fables and guesswork of men who thought the earth was flat. In reading history, we can watch the invention evolve. Since it is an obvious, and flawed invention of ancient ignorance and superstitious, I feel OK about dismissing it out of hand in exactly the same way that the purist will dismiss Santa Claus and Superman without much mention of negative proof.

To me it is of some significance that the alleged xian deity does not yield to examination. The harder we look, the more invisible he gets. All the clues are exactly the same as for something that is non-existent - it cannot be seen or detected in any way and never leaves any objective evidence of any sort. Yeah, I know - absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, but at some point we can stop looking for unicorns.

The whole religious complexion of the modern world is due to the absence from Jerusalem of a lunatic asylum. ~ Havelock Ellis

Among the primitives, it appears that rumors and fantastic stories were passed on as fact with little critical skepticism applied. Few were savvy enough to question such things and those who were, were strongly dissuaded from doing so. There was little that resembled scientific methodology and there were few tools available for critical examination of such stories. This does not add to the credibility of the ancient myths. It shows them for what they are - urban legends so poorly reported and so unverifiable that they could never be used in a news report today. In fact people who claim to speak to gods are now routinely confined and heavily medicated. As students of History and Science, we know that the ancient myths can be disregarded as far as they represent an understanding of the workings of the universe. They correspond to reality not at all.

For my part, I don't see how grownups can believe any of that shit.

Very nice write up. . .

Logicboy03: Where did William Craig say such?

In a debate with an atheist called Eddy Tabash. . .You can check it out on youtube. . .

aletheia: Trying to apply what? An emotional hook...
Cause and effect is clearly shown in the quoted passage above. In order to cure cancer, every last cell must be extirpated. Sin is more deadly, more virulent and of more lasting consequences than cancer. If you sin, you will die. Simple.

You have no right to get mad at muslims who do the same to you. . .After all sin to Allah is more deadly than cancer . . .The problem is why not just ask them to repent?. ..Why kill them and their kids ?. . .The god of the OT is clearly a monster even christian apologist like William Criag had to admit it and claim that the people that wrote the OT actually got it wrong. ..He claimed god did not tell them to do those things, they did it and claimed god told them to do it. . .

davidylan: I think you are confused here. The title was not meant as an insult to those who do not agree with christianity... it was a simple question to atheists asking why they seem to be so vocal online where they can hide under the banner of anonymity but then dont seem to be so bold or sure of their atheistic leanings to reveal to those closest to them.

I am an atheist and I am vocal about he here in Denmark and in the parts of Europe I have been to. . .I tell who ever comes my way and wants to know about my religion that I have non because I can not suffer any discrimination(My ex employer is a christian and he knows that I am an atheist). . . .But why can't I do same in Nigeria?. . .There in lies your answer. . .I have seen people lose many things just for belonging to a different religion or leaving a particular church for another talk more of an atheist. . .Even christians were in hiding at the very beginning, when they were persecuted under the Roman empire until one of the emperor later adopted the religion and made it the state religion.

Ihedinobi: All irreligious peopke should take this summa whichever way they like: there is a God and His Name is Jesus Christ.

Nope there is a god and his name is Allah. . .

plaetton: He he he.
Next?
Science confirms that snakes could talk: it's just that we no longer understand reptilian languages.
There is just nothing one cannot hear from homo-religilous here in Nairaland.
Lol

LOL!!!. . .No be small thing. . .

plaetton: @writing.
He he he. I am not surprised about this GO. If if had believed in god, after preaching for some time, he would have realized that it was all smokes and mirrors.
I believe that all pastors,priests and popes are atheists in secret.

A lot of catholic priest are atheist. . .I meet an American preacher in Ohio back in 2011 that was an atheist. . .He openly told me he was a preacher in Arkansas but to him the bible is a book of fables, preaching gives him money so that is why he will continue to engage in it, people need some form of solace and he will continue to offer it to them he told me, a lot of the cardinals I STRONGLY believe are closet atheist. The catholic priest that was interviewed in religilous is an atheist as far as am concerned . .A former pope was on record to have said that Jesus is a fable. . .

Logicboy03: Around the same march/April. I'm a lagos boy

We dey. . .Once you touch down just halla. . .I will come and meet you where ever you as as long as am in naija. . .

Logicboy03: You have zero faith in me


Dont worry, give me this summer! I will prove myself.



BTW, you promised to help as a tour guide if i ever visit copenhagen!

Sure. .But I will be moving back to Naija on the 6th of March. . .I will be there till September if all goes as planned, sometimes I get tired and run back . . .But this time i will be in naija for quite sometime. . .When are you planning to head to naija?. . .

Logicboy03: But but but... I never said that I am going to do "in your face" approach! You missed where I said "anonymous" or that I am cool with secular christians?

I am also targeting educated christians and not the "frosbel type" that managed to get visa to london and wastes it on tithe churches.

Roger. . .

Logicboy03: Why not pray for me?


I am not going for a suicide mission now



Okay, if you dont believe in me or any of my ideas, so what are you going to do? Just enjoy your atheism in peace? Eh, the easy life?

I don't believe in universal atheism. . .Nigerians need enlightenment and education, the same type that made me become an atheist on MY OWN. I was exposed to many things. . .Had access to many things. . .That made me understand how religion and gods came about. . .How religious books were written, who wrote them, the period they were written, why they were written, and how they were complied etc. . .The average Nigerian just believes the bible or the koran just fell from heaven. . .Education is it. . .

That is what Nigeria needs not the in your face approach that will only get you in trouble in a society that is completely backward, mostly unexposed and under educated or uneducated. . .

Logicboy03: Yes and they said that America was not ready for a black president in 2007


When will Nigeria ever be ready? I am sure that there have been atheists since Tai Solarin/Chinua Achebe/Wole Soyinka's time. Many of them couldnt come out because of this same fear. We have technology and anonymity on our side to beat this fear

What about gathering many numbers on and sending all of them mass texts about the issues with religion? Think outside the box. People dont know how dangerous the mind is. Logicboy's mind is as fecund as ever.



https://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-ideas-are-more-powerful-than-guns-we-would-not-let-our-enemies-have-guns-why-should-we-let-them-joseph-stalin-176310.jpg







We need to do something.


Watch out for me in lagos. I promise something soon.

OK, I wish you the best. . .