₦airaland Forum

Gbawe ati Lagosboy,
you guys have transferred our discourse here?
El-Rufai is an extremely intelligent man but he needs to tone down his hot headedness.
That ANPP/ACN comment was too simplistic, childish and unexpected of a political figure.
Why will GEJ cut a deal with ANPP?
I know he is a inept and a bit dull but not that dull.Is he?
What will ANPP offer him?

Have you considered the fact that maybe he did not believe in the Yar Adua presidency?

you probably assume that every man is devoid of a conscience and principles.
some men want to sleep at night with a clear conscience.

I would have choked on my cereal if this man was sacked for ineptitude.
Alas, he was sacked for having a conscience and supporting the better candidate.
This is indeed FRESH AIR!!!
Interesting times.

johnie:
Good to see that you guys are still having a go at this.

PapaBrown made a very interesting submission which I think has been largely dismissed but which I consider very plausible:

[b]@OP
You can look at it from another angle. What if Ribadu was in this elections all the while just to scuttle Buhari's chances. For a job well done, he gets a top position in the Jonathan Government. He uses that position to build political capital and popular support in preparedness for 2015. He enters 2015 with more visibilty and political experience garnered from running in 2011. That to me is strategic thinking and I bet you it would serve him better than working in a Buhari party.
I also believe that was also Shekarau's strategy- use these elections to prevent a Buhari victory and garber enough exposure for 2015.

As per Tinubu, I always used to say it that since sometime in 2009, Tinubu was in the same ship with Obasanjo. They met sometime in that period.
They had one common goal- breaking the northern hegemony!! These two men are the greatest political strategists in Nigeria currently and they did a great job in pulling the rug of the northern hegemony!!
The Ekiti and Osun state victories were just trade-offs. Forget all those arguments between Katsina Alu and Salami.[/b]

Don't call me a conspiracy theorist but I agree with PapaBrowne.

Let's see what GEJ makes of Ribadu in his new government!

I have mussed over this issue severally but i fail to see its possibility.
If Ribadu was a mole, i am convinced that BAT would have been wise enough to spot it. If it was CPC, i would accept the mole theory but in ACN, i doubt it exceedingly.
Mole or no mole, accepting a role in GEJ govt will be the hugely detrimental for Ribadu.
It will be too early to recant for a second time.

Jarus:
I thought I was the only that has issue with the reckless ascription of this tag in Nigeria. I especially have a problem with some parties calling themselves. In this dispensation, ACN arrogates this label more than any other party. Even more disturbing is when you see crooks calling themselves progressives. The truth is very few political personalities qualify to be a progressive in this age. Awo's UPN and Aminu Kano's PRP of the 2nd republic are examples of progressive parties. These were parties taht had clear-cut ideology. You know UPN with its free education policy, you know PRP with talakawa, welfarist ideology.  Awo and Aminu Kano will turn in their graves when they hear the type of people calling themselves progressives today.

did you not hear Ayo Adebanjo days ago hailing Gbenga Daniel a true progressive and a son of Awo?

Lagosboy:
Genuine consesus is when 2 or 3 candidates discuss amongst themselves and all three agree to debate themselves in house and one of them emerges which is agreed by them. For example, gbawe and me wants to become the governor of Ekiti state and before campaigning starts at all or announcement of candidates to the public we both sit down and talk it out on why it should be him and not me or vice versa. I submit to his points and he represents the party.

Imposition is when Osoba, Lam Adesina, bisi Akande or Tinubu tell other candidates to piss off and seletcts whom they want. Osoba specifically said there will not be primaries in Ogun state and there was no primary rather it was all selection. Tinubu did the same in Lagos , Lam Adesina did the same in Oyo and his son Dapo suffered the backlash.

The latter is what is practised predominantly in ACN and it will be the bane of the party in the long run if it is not checked.

i obviously knew what it meant.
I just wanted you to do the definition and thus proof that it is not what is obtainable in ACN.
Infact what is practiced there is imposition and not consensus.
How any pragmatic politician will yield to that,even if he is a beneficiary and not raise his voice in public against it baffles me.
If the foundation be destroyed what can the righteous do?
As it is these candidates owe their allegiance to the wise men and not the party faithfuls.
What sort of foundation is that?
A house built upon sand will not stand o!
If ACN must go far and help us dismatle the evil called PDP, we must hold it accountable to erect a good foundation.
After that, all pragmatism is acceptable.

Lagosboy:
I do agree on the points you raised as well on the diverse methods of picking candidates but imposition of candidates is what i am against not genuine consesus. I am from Lagos and when a man throws 6 members of his family into an election , this is beyond diversity in methods but plain greed and abuse of power.

mate,
kindly throw more light on the bold part.
thank you.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=649066.msg8162850#msg8162850 date=1303213331]@Lagosboy, what informs your opinion that Mamora is the best ACN senator?

Once again I have to agree with Gbawe's point on the diverse politicking method that can throw up a primary winner.I really do hate to defend Tinubu, but the guy has earned his stripes and ACN is a better organized party because of his efforts.

I also have issues with the Ekiti central primaries, but I'm not surprised by the conflict. I mean, you have Femi Ojudu, Opeyemi Bamidele and Dele Alake running against an Incumbent Bode Ola, all in the same party and at least two are close associates of Tinubu and former Lagos commissioners under Him. That was a very strong candidate pool. I agree, transparent primaries would have been better in their case. It's unfortunate they are all from the same district. I also see it the failure of a system that restricts people to tiny senatorial districts when they can use their experience else where in the state.

I have criticized Tinubu here several times and I'm still wary of his massive influence but it will be funny to assume he wields as much control as people ascribe to him.

I can bet people like Prof. Sola Adeyeye of Osun State did not bow at Bourdillon. Tinubu is not Awolowo and while I cannot vouch for anyone 100%, I'm sure he's aware of that fact. Even as influential As Awolowo was, and some accuse him of being very heady too, still he had to give up after Bola Ige surprisingly contested Oyo Primaries against his choice the legendary E. Alayande and won. Good leadership matters, transparency is great too. But Tinubu's style gave us Fashola. Politics is not a one way street.

I see a bright future for ACN if they continue to throw up good administrators and hardworking politicians. One is Abike Dabiri, I was indifferent about her at first now I'm slightly impressed. I'm glad we now have Sola Adeyeye back and as a Senator too.

Nigeria needs good opposition, especially in that shark infested House of Assembly. Like I said on page 1, I will be dissappointed if Buhari does not seize the moment to sponsor and give CPC and his people the good representation they deserve. Just like the Talakawas of Aminu Kano, there is massive support for Buhari and he needs to use that to groom progressive politicians like El-Rufai and co.[/quote]This issue just won't go away in this discussion.
the strength of that candidate pool was an evidence that nothing but a primary would have sufficed.
I find it worrying that a gathering of progressives (whatever that means) would opt for some undefined,unscientific selection process called consensus in choosing the peoples representative.
if this core attribute of a democratic system is discarded, what core principle would be cardinal?
As much as i appreciate the view of Gbawe et al that politicians have to be pragmatic,certain actions should be unacceptable.
Mind you, it is not like this consensus thing was an exception, it was the rule within ACN.
Those that mean that if an incumbent fumbles but remains in the good books of the wise men (BAT ati Akande ati Osboa ati Adesina) he is returned?

funny enough our only saviour in the next four years is a strong opposition in the NASS.
If the sharks run amok again and it remains biz as usual, we are finished.
unfortunately, it seems PDP will get the majority again.
and i fear for another house of bazaar.

Lagosboy:
Thanks for your comments you are welcome to contribute your opinion and analysis here as well.

Gbawe and I disagree on some issues but trust me I know we share many poltical views in common apart from Tinubu

my worry with the Tinubu factor is that if he is not clipped properly sooner rather than later, the danger will impact even non ACN sympathizers.
The man is too intelligent and tactical to be allowed to run the show the way it seems at present.

Lagosboy:
how can i explain Momora being asked to step down for Ashafa.

ACN will thrive better once Tinubus wings are clipped and he is relgated to Bourdilloun.

I really do respect the way Mamora has carried himself in the light of that episode. decent man, gets top marks from me.

Lagosboy:
It would be wonderful if this man joins CPC after his term at central bank, we need him in Aso rock. He is one of the bright stars of the north. Unfortunately the masses of the north do not really align with his progressive thinking but some grassroots work of 3 years can erase that.

CPC has to work hard to kick out the PDP govs , which is the only way we would rid Aso rock of PDP. If PDP lose 8 states in the north to CPC and 6 in the SW to ACN. PDP will be a goner in 2015 especially if all these governors perform excellently.

If only northern leaders will be long sighted in their visions.
anything short of a genuine bridge builder will be catastrophic in 2015.

Gbawe:
Man mi , you are a bright guy yet I am loathe to really drag this debate on suffice to say that Parties are not duty bound to conducts Primaries as the only process that leads to the emergence of candidates. The consensus emergence , even if not ideologically desirable to some of us , is a legitimately acceptable way for candidates to emerge . So is negotiation and horse-trading amongst candidates . We all forget that usage of certain practices in Political Parties , if allowed and endorsed as legitimate by electoral rules, are the prerogative of Party members and not the general public.

The PDP has no choice but to conduct Primaries because of the sheer number of contestant and their insistence on contesting for office . That is not the case for the ACN . Folks in the Party generally get along well to the extent that consensus deals and negotiations threw up many candidates most folks were happy with . We should judge Parties by their size, number of contestant for elective office and unique circumstances rather than what other Parties have done . If only two contestants want the Oyo Central senatorial ACN seat , rather than 30 as may be the case for the PDP, why should it be a voting Primaries alone that should be used or seen as democratic when other legitimate options are equally acceptable?


The PDP , for example, had no choice but to have the voting contest between GEJ and Atiku. Meanwhile , Ribadu emerged because everyone voluntarily stepped down for him !!! What is wrong with that ? We cannot go looking for a crime when non has been committed . If one forgets the rumours and inspect the reality of how candidates emerged it will be obvious that most ACN representatives emerged through acceptable and legitimate methods . Everyone is free to believe otherwise .

thanks for the response.
it will be foolhardy to drag this particular debate longer.
I might not agree entirely with your point but i see where you are coming from.

Jarus:
That was funny.
But I don't think I have to prostrate for Tinubu before getting AC ticket. In Lagos, almost impossible but in Kwara, I don't think so. I don't think Kwara's AC guber candidate, Dele Belgore, has much to do with Tinubu. I don't think the AC candidates that won NASS seats in some northern states like Adamawa, Kaduna, or in Anambra have anything to do with Tinubu. I agree Tinubu is the national leader and strongest man in the party, but I think the party is fast outgrowing him.

I have always had some sympathy for AC, simply because, as much as it is also populated by crooks, I admire the performance and administrative ideologies of a number of its topshots - Fashola, Aregbesola, Fayemi.



As for CPC, I believe in Buhari and Tony Momoh. Tunde Bakare is not a politician but he comes across as someone that will also not compromise. Other than those men, I don't know any other politician in that party I can vouch for. But at teh same time, the reason I believe crooks and opportunists took over the party in the north is because Buhari had a bigger challenge(presidential election) in front of him and had not time to sanitize the party, until after he crossed the election hurdle first. I believe he would not have spared anybody, including the crooks in his party too, if he won. But that did not happen and I have serious fears these men will men will cross back to PDP(as they did with ANPP) after riding on Buhari's back to power, since Buhari is not in charge at the central.

I can also not rule out the possibility of seeing what I can bring into CPC Kwara, but if you want to be a politician, you need to do some calculations as well. AC is teh party giving PDP a run for their money in my state. PDP is a total no-no. I can't compromise to the extent of joining PDP, but I believe AC is still not that bad. This is why I can't rule out joining AC, if at all I will enter politics.

Okay, since you are almost an ACN man, in the absence of Gbawe you can answer my questions above.
Thank you.

how about that undated resignation letter that ACN candidates are said to sign before being chosen to represent the party?
Thisday alluded to it this weekend when discussing the Bakare resignation letter issue.

Gbawe:
My brother , you are most certainly welcomed . My uncle is now an ACN senator . He never had to prostrate for Tinubu. He did not take any oath and he was certainly not coerced into pledging blind allegiance to Tinubu. Folks can continue to spread their horror stories that is not at all based on facts . Fola Adeola attested to this when he said that no one is focused on Tinubu at ACN meetings .

I just don't understand how we Nigerian constantly and regularly allude to a need to see Jesus-like virtues in our administrators when , for now , our Nation is far from a testimony to the most desirable virtues to be found in humanity. We have to manage what we have , currently, to gain progress and development . It is those who pragmatically understand that concept who contribute to our march towards a brighter future.

Gbawe, you need to respond to lagosboy comment above.
No one is asking for saints.
I would never have supported Buhari at the last election if i was looking for a saint.
all we are asking for are folks who can halt this monumental slide our country is heading.if we stem the slide, then we can begin to address the crux of the matter.
the complaint with ACN is a total lack of internal democracy for outside viewers.
I never heard of any primaries in any of the ACN chapters for these elections.If there was one, the media must have mischieviously missed it and i will appreciate a link.
you uncle probably contested outside lagos and if he did not prostrate for BAT, he probably did for Lam or Osoba.
I do not expect you or Adeola to come and tell us that 'yes, we are enslaved by BAT,what can we do?'
but it would be unfair of you to wave off the accusations when there is no proof to discount these assertions.
Tinubu and by extension ACN is playing a very important role in our polity, hence we need to hold it (him) accountable before a monster develops.

Jarus:
God sparing our lives, I'm also consulting on where I can come in in Kwara politics, possibly in 2015 by God's grace. I may pick AC membership form anytime from now

you pick ACN form??
are you ready to prostrate at Bourdillon mansion?

OAM4J:
But imagine a situation where your political ambition in ACN is only feasible if Tinubu and not majority of the party members approves it.

the lack of internal democracy in ACN is scary.
If i was a member of the party i might have sleepless nights.
I can't remember a decent primary election that was held in the party running up to these elections (open to corrections on this).
At least PDP had a semblance of primaries.
I hear Asiwaju saying he is building a legacy that will outlive him.Like this?
What do seemingly intelligent men in the party know that we outside do not see that makes them subject themselves to a variant of slavery in this day and time?

OAM4J:
And may I remind you that the dream of one progressive party did not start in December 2010. What happened to all the merger talks/meetings? Why was it not possible for Falae, Buhari, Bafarawa, Utomi and Tunubu to agree to work together? How are we sure the same reasons will not stop any future merger talk? IMO, the personal interests of  some of the key progressives members still override our collective national interest. I wish am wrong but I see the status quo remaining for a long while.

end of discussion.
until the bold part is clearly resolved, we might be dancing on the spot.

May his family find grace and solace in God in the midst of this tragic news.

[quote author=A-40 link=topic=613256.msg8154191#msg8154191 date=1303127286]I am willing to bet 100 quid that we wouldnt finish 2nd this season!! What a hopeless bunch

But how did Gareth Bale win PFA player of the year?? Who are these zombies in charge of English football[/quote]the award are actually voted for by the players themselves.
some folks actually underestimate how thick these players are.
i can't understand how Nani, Vidic and Kompany did not make the list.
these players probably gave it to their respective agents to fill or just ticked who ever scored a hat trick that weekend.
the forms might even had been distributed the week spurs played Inter.

Like everyone else, i agree that there were acts of rigging.
but i doubt it would have made a difference.
We fought a good fight and this is not the time to lose face by being bitter losers.
I wish the General would admit defeat and extend hand to every genuine force intending to hold this 'new' govt accountable.
He also needs to speak out against this violence that thugs and thieves are carrying out in his name.
He must not play into the hands of his opponents.
Not much will change in the NASS, it would be the same PDP arrangement,with almost the same majority.
It must not be biz as usual.There needs to be a collective force to hold them accountable for every action of theirs.I mean every action.
We (Nigerians) had an opportunity to hold them accountable through or votes.We have not done that but all hope is not lost if we (opponents of the status quo) decide to steer this energy in the direction of holding the new govt accountable.
This is the new role i expect Gen. Buhari to play.
The battle is not over but the war is still on.
Our future and those of our children is at stake.

Lagosboy:
Never compromise your principles , what you compromise is your strategy.

In Nigeria?
are you kidding me?

Gbawe:
The point is that this thread is really emotional rather than logical , IMO , given what we know about Nigeria . What is an "expensive gamble"? It is only in Nigeria we speak as if folks are worse off because they stood up to be counted and nobly presented themselves as candidates for top office . No one would bother to contest an election if they think that they will lose everything if unsuccessful .

Others have bounced back from far worse . I really don't see the point of this thread . The elections has shown how simple Nigerians are . Anyone who thinks Ribadu is now 'damaged goods' that cannot be marketed for greater potency in future is simply not conversant with what obtains in Nigeria. Do some of us know the history of men like david Mark? Is David Mark , today , not the third most powerful Nigerian alive? This election should have humbled some of us into realising that our pontification is for each other and not necessarily in line with the thinking of average Nigerians .

Some buhari fans , for example, bragged that the Buhari tsunami will hit the SW . What happened in reality? Abeg let us stop the arrogance . It has been proven that most of us are simply elitist in thinking with no clue of the mindset of those on the ground . Anyone who thinks Ribadu , while still young , cannot be made into the next 'hottest thing' is simply not talking about Nigeria. What is it that Jonathan has not done wrong ? Depleted ECA, Teslim Folarin, Ogun impeachment debacle, Anenih et al as campaign manager , death of halliburton trial, disappearance of IBB's indictment , etc , etc yet Nigerians voted for him well . Abeg Ribadu will be alright Ojare .

i beg to differ with you on the bold part.
I don't think we are idealistic.
we simply choose not to be short sighted.

i agree with you that Ribadu will be fine.
the main reason is that the political class will have realised that is malleable,considering how he was able to comfortably align with BAT and recant his past comments.
If an Andy Uba can be fine, Ribadu just needs to lie more often and he would be fine.
Those whose votes you need to win do not believe in all these talk of integrity that most of us here are bothered with.

the problem is what happens in the long term.

Ribadu can readily and easily reinvent himself.
After all, the political class now know that he is not as rigid as the likes of Buhari.
He has the character to be a good politician.He probably actually stands for nothing.
That is all that is needed to suceed in Nigerian politics.
For those who are rooting for El-Rufai, go and read his interview with Next on his Ibori visit.The man is a very complicated character.
Ribadu's character has only diminshed in the eyes of idealists like you and i.
In the dog eat dog principle less arean called Nigeria politics, he is excelling.

[quote author=~Bluetooth link=topic=648374.msg8155101#msg8155101 date=1303132735]D'banj again ?[/quote]this na market season.

Nigerians have spoken.
Buhari et al must learn to be good losers.
from ll indications, the results were indicative of the people's wishes.
bUhari must do the right thing;acknowledge defeat publicly.
Then the govt must address this violence sqyarely,not politically.

To the families of the corpers that lost their lives, may their blood not be in vain and may it prick the conscience of the political elite when they sit to share our common wealth.

[quote author=ekt_bear link=topic=648836.msg8150506#msg8150506 date=1303077948]@OP: A lot of truth in what you say. I was overly optimistic. Perhaps in 50 or 100 years time, things will be different.[/quote]don't despair.
Wish we could muster the strength to channel our energy in holding this govt accountable in the next four years the way we campaigned against this status quo.
it would have been easier if the margin of defeat looked sensible.
However, it seems missed a chance (not just in voting otherwise) but in holding PDP responsible for the failure of the last 12 years via the ballot box.
pray,why would you expect the ruling party to be any different in the next 12 years?
they have only being encouraged by our votes.
Nigerians have only said, more of the last 12 years in the next 4 years!!
scary prospects.

on a different note, much respect to Jega.
You,sir, have done well.

and congrats to GEJ!!

Well done to everyone on this team.
It has been an admirable pursuit.
The future will bear you witness that you walked the talk.
Nigerians have chosen, may the future unfold.

forget the school thing (it is often exaggerated).
I am still struggling to see the talent in the boys music.
he just seems to have the right connection.
That is one reason why he should have sorted out school first.
how can you compare tuface to this boy?
tuface has talent oozing out of every pore of his skin.
this lad, i struggle to see the talent folks talk about in his case.

MultiLinks is decent.
I use it and i can't complain too much.

I will not join in praising Tinubu but i think this is a very poor article.
Filled with hate, bile and hear says.
the issue of Tinubu should be kept in the front burner lest he becomes another OBJ.
However, i think strong institutions will curb the tendencies of people like Tinubu.
There is a pattern to his madness and a level of civility.
However only a (quiet) revolution can uproot this evil called PDP.
There is absolutely no method to its mediocrity and destruction.