₦airaland Forum

[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]
Logic of facts.

The existence of freewill doesnt diminish the omniscience of God, if the shoes were on the other foot, you wouldn't dare give human beings the gift of freewill, even if you are omniscient. I am 10000% you wouldn't, lmao, you literally haven't got the balls to do that, lmao

fieryy:
You are the one contradicting herself.

If God is indeed forever omniscient, then I can't have a free will.
The fact that I do means God isn't omniscient.

These are very logical simple sentences that you can only choose not to understand because it doesn't fall in line with what you're saying.

It's sth I find laughable, which is why I laughed

You are more confused than a fart let loose and out on the production floor of a fan making factory.

You exercising your gift of freewill doesn't in any slightest form whatsoever diminish the omniscience of God.

The way you'll know that the existence of freewill doesnt diminish the omniscience of God, is, if the shoes were on the other foot, you wouldn't dare give human beings the gift of freewill, even if you are omniscient. I am 10000% you wouldn't, lmao, you literally haven't got the balls to do it, lmao

fieryy:
Lmaoooooooooo

If God is omniscient, then there's no freewill
If there's free will, God is not omniscient

Those 2 sentences are very simple to understand.

I like your "hand caught still in the cookie jar nicking" mischievous lmao laugh.

Those two sentences are very simple to understand and very easy to spot the contradiction too. Also how you like to eat your cake and have it too

Animals and objects don't have freewill, yet God is forever sovereign. He is forever Omniscient.

Freewill is what makes you distinct and/or recognisable different from an animal, object and/or phenomenon. It is because of freewill that you are busy typing away here on Nairaland and not deciding to voluntarily die or intentionally kill yourself before your time, lmao.

Xmuslim:
This theory is old sir.

God knows the severity of killing. He's not a robot that has no feelings.

Why did he condemn killing if he think it is small thing.

STOP DEFENDING GOD. LET HIM COME OUT AND DEFEND HIMSELF.

You guys are funny. You compare God to us when you think it align to your response ONLY.

Next time, don't tell me God must not be compared to human. His way is not our way.. Bla.. Bla.. Bla

Dtruthspeaker:

I am God's Lawyer! And I am here for that Purpose!
You can't even answer me, your fellow man, is it now in His Presence, you shall be able to raise your head?
But don't worry He has Already Promised That One Day, He Would call all of you together, to Answer You!
(Like you are all waiting for your Buhari to "speech", today)

[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]

fieryy:
But he's right though. Having a free will contradicts God being omniscient.
If He knows what exactly is going to happen, then you actually have absolutely no free will.

MuttleyLaff:
Let me face you then instead of Daejoyoung, who has gone quiet on me and ask you this direct question fieryy.
Do you or do you not, have freewill?

Depending on how you answer, the next thing I'll be going for is, I am going to ask, if you are prepared to do an exercise to prove whether or not, you really do or don't have freewill, so be careful how you answer the above question.
Waiting for your reply

fieryy:
Of course, I do.
What does this have to do with me though?
Or the concept of God being omniscient and us having a free will contradicting itself?
Us having a free will doesn't counter the contradiction

---

---

---

fieryy:
Ehhhhhn
Whaaaaat?
Can you explain why? I'm genuinely confused

I am not surprised you are genuinely confused

Please don't ask me to explain to you how you are contradicting yourself dahling. You're straddling both sides of the fence. You can't have your cake and eat it. You can't say there is no freewill because God is omni knowing, know all, then turn round, to then say and admit, you do have freewill, after you've earlier agreed that there isn't freewill, lmao. Please make up your mind.

fieryy:
But he's right though. Having a free will contradicts God being omniscient.
If He knows what exactly is going to happen, then you actually have absolutely no free will.

MuttleyLaff:
Let me face you then instead of Daejoyoung, who has gone quiet on me and ask you this direct question fieryy.
Do you or do you not, have freewill?

Depending on how you answer, the next thing I'll be going for is, I am going to ask, if you are prepared to do an exercise to prove whether or not, you really do or don't have freewill, so be careful how you answer the above question.
Waiting for your reply

fieryy:
Of course, I do. What does this have to do with me though? Or the concept of God being omniscient and us having a free will contradicting itself? Us having a free will doesn't counter the contradiction

You are contradicting yourself dahling. You're straddling both sides of the fence. Please make up your mind.

Offpoint:
You mean I should show you in the Bible where the original Aramaic word is " shavaktani?
For real?

I clearly let you know it wasn't the entirety of the word translation.

If I ask you to show me in the Bible where the Bible was translated into English language, will you show me any verse(s) or chapter that says so?

Even the verse in Bible stated *Which mean* it never said from which language, but from personal studies you dug out the language which it was translated from.

About three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?".

Your question is totally baseless

Look at you with eggs smeared on your face. You are unable to show me in the Bible, using verses, where the alleged "... original Aramaic word is "shavaktani" ..." is being used as meaning and/or translated to "forsaken me" or "leave me" or even "abandoned me" because it does not exist, lmao.

All I asked you was a a simple verification and validation question to show where in the bible, have you verses that translates "shavaktani" to be "Forsaken me" or "leave me" or even "abandoned me" or even vice versa, I don't mind, but instead to say I am sorry , I can't or I am sorry I am unable to, you resort to a "Your question is totally baseless" frustrated outbusrt, lmao

How you managed to equate "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" to meaning "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" is just smh appalling, especially when you are unable to bring forward a single instance in the bible of "... lema sabachthani?" ever used to mean "forsaken me" or "leave me" or even "abandoned me"

You should be thankful that we didnt get to me pulling you up on where in the original text you got the idea of the question mark symbol at the end of "... lema sabachthani?" from, lmao.

At the rate and state you currently are you most likely are going to wallow in your ignorance, continuing to take delight and bask in the glory of your bad learned interpretation of Matthew 27:46 and even equally Mark 15:34.

MuttleyLaff:
"Jesus said to them,
“If God were your Father, you would love Me,
for I proceeded forth and came from God;
nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me."
- John 8:42

"Exerchomai" is the Greek original word translated as "proceeded forth". By definition, it means, to go or come out of, with mention of the place out of which one goes, or of the point from which one departs. John 8:42 above, makes no mistake, where from Jesus proceeded forth and came from.

blue\Agent & okosun\ehis, Jesus Christ is God and even god sef, just as I've earlier said and especially if that's how or a way Hairy\rapunzel understands to put it.

No, I am not blue\Agent & okosun\ehis, implying that Jesus and God are the same entity, but I am emphatically saying that Jesus and God are the same entity.

blue\Agent & okosun\ehisit , listen and watch this. I put on different attire colours to reflect my mood and image I am trying to project across. I could put on a red dress to make a statement that I am fiery, vibrant and lively. The colours are not me, they are images reflecting certain aspects of me. It's the same with God, the maleness and femaleness is not God, they are just constructs made in the image of God. God really isnt male nor female

We all know what kind of image one is projecting when wearing black colours, it could be for mourning or for trying to look sexy

The "the only begotten" means the only person uniquely gotten this way. The phrase has nothing to do with God biologically giving birth to Jesus, as a mother, like women do.

blue\Agent & okosun\ehis, God is formless. God is a Spirit, and so has no form. God however does have masculine and feminine distinctive personalities plus characteristics associated with man and woman

Before either of youse step and slip on my "God is formless" banana skin comment, let me make myself clearer with the comment, by adding to it, that God is shapeless and formless like water. When you pour water in a cup, it becomes the cup. When you pour water in a bottle, it becomes the bottle. When you pour water in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. When you pour water into a drum, it becomes the drum of water. That is why when Moses asked God who should he say sent him, if asked by the Israelites, God said to him, say, I AM I AM sent you.

I AM I AM, in that narrative, means I shall be that I shall be, also means whatever it is necessary for God to be, that, God will be. God willl be a pillar of cloud in the day and become a pillar of fire to give them light at night. God is formless, yet God can take on any form. I know it sounds like an oxymoron thing to say it that way, but God, though truly is formless, can manifest Himself in any form, just as in that Nebucadnezzer fiery furnace and etcetera

---

---

---

Oghenerobo2002:
Every covenant is ushered in with blood to make it binding. God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac for a covenant, but ended up using an animal in the bush. God also used the blood of Egyptians to enter a covenant with the children of Israel. Jesus was precious and a supreme being. Coming down to earth to be humiliated and killed by mere mortal was a big sacrifice. Think of the years he spent on earth without his glory, and the pains he went through when he was killed.
I wouldn't go through that to get a range rover!

Offpoint:
You're the only one who have said a reasonable thing so far.

That is why I stamped my like on the post, lmao

Offpoint:
If Jesus is God, then who is that that seated at the right hand side of God?

Jesus, God, the Son

Offpoint:
Who did He cried out to on the cross?

God, the Father

Offpoint:
Who did He asked to forgive their wrong doing for they know what they are doing?

God, the Father

doubled

doubled

fieryy:
But he's right though. Having a free will contradicts God being omniscient. If he knows what exactly is going to happen, then you actually have absolutely no free will.

Let me face you then instead of Daejoyoung, who has gone quiet on me and ask you this direct question fieryy. Do you or do you not, have freewill?

Depending on how you answer, the next thing I'll be going for is, I am going to ask, if you are prepared to do an exercise to prove whether or not, you really do or don't have freewill, so be careful how you answer the above question. Waiting for your reply

Offpoint:
Lol,

I am dead serious here and not anywhere mucking about

Offpoint:
... you're deviating from my question and leaning towards linguistic.

Far from it I am deviating from your question and leaning towards linguistic, but rather I am corralling us to clinically have your questions correctly and convincingly answered.

Offpoint:
The word 'sabachthani' is more of Greek transliterated-Aramaic. The original Aramaic word is "shavaktani" which is both translated to "Forsaken me" or "leave me" "Abandoned me"

Please show me in the Bible, using verses, where the alleged "... original Aramaic word is "shavaktani" ..." is being used as meaning and/or translated to "Forsaken me" or "leave me" or even "abandoned me"

Offpoint:
Mind you, this is not the entirety of the origin of the word and its meaning. I'm not here to talk about linguistic.

I am not either here to talk about linguistic, just want to get to the bottom of the real meaning and all of "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" so to then afterwards, get to answering your original question with my focus specially put on "... lama sabachthani"

Stephenmoka4:
I usually expect the love man have for God should be a passionate and affectionate love.
The kind of questions I get made me think so;
Do you desire God
How much do you love God
Have you spend 5 minutes with God just for a day.

With questions like this I do expect the kind of love to be craving and desiring.

brother, don't complicate agape love. Don't unnecessarily make agape love complex, when it isn't at all anything like that. Agape love is simple, easy, kind, compassionate and just as I earlier have advanced is unconditional. Agape love is not subjected to conditions. God, the essence of agape love did not love you based on conditions. God gives agape love, exudes agape love, shows agape love, gives off and gives out agape love because it is God's nature to do so. It is God sharing Himself, giving part of what God is. Agape love is not something forced out, it is something coerced to do. It has to be natural. Agape love conquers all.

You spend 5 minutes, 5 hours or 5 seconds with anyone you love, desire, crave et cetera. It is not quantity of time spent we are talking about here but rather it is the quality, enthusiasm, eagerness and passion et cetera of the agape love.

Kobojunkie:
You do understand that God does not command that He be praised in the good and/or the bad times? Our praises ought to come because we want to give it, not because man told us it is what we ought to do.

Your old notions of what love means need to be dumped. That again is why Jesus said

All the old ideas about how God works, what love is, and so on and so forth need to be done away with.

Stephenmoka4:
I know this question is weird, (I am kind of a weird person too): How do one love God, sometimes I ask myself what kind of love do I have for God and I can't tell if it's love, since you mentioned it's not the physical type of love I.e chemical (passions and desire)

Stephenmoka4:
Thanks again, I really want to feel this bond some Christians had talked to me about.

God is love. God is the epitome of love, the perfect example in all ramification of what is love. If you are really in the image of God and have become the likeness of God then you are expected to do display and demonstrate agape love. Agape love, for any not really familiar with that term, means unconditional love. It is love with no strings attached.

Offpoint:
Knock who off bro? ...

I didnt say knock anyone off, but what I typed was "I hope I haven't knocked you dazed with any of, how I am coming at you and where I am going with each and/or all of them" meaning the advanced warning of where I'll be heading with the original question I am asking you about what language was "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" said in

Offpoint:
... Give me an answer to what I asked of you.... What language did Jesus spoke when He was on earth if it wasn't Aramaic Mr man?

Thank you for your answer, Mr not a lesser man than I am.

I am glad you have admitted that "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" was spoken fully, totally and completely in Aramaic, that is meaning each and every word in that utterance, "sabachthani" included.

I'll give you an answer. I will answer your question, but not yet, not before we establish a fact or two. I had already hinted you that I'll be very much interested in know from you who you believe, saying “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" was targeted at and why for the targeted audience's hearing was “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani” said, but at this juncture of you admitting that Aramaic was used entirely in saying “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani", then it is imperative to ask you what is the meaning of “sabachthani" and/or what is “sabachthani" from Aramaic translated to English.

Please judiciously and appropiately respond so we can get some meaningful traction and move on to other aspects.

sonmvayina:
The Bible did not really say much about what happens after death.. Ecclessiatics 12 :7 says the spirit returns to God who gave it and the body to the earth where it was taken...

The person who would have given us a good description would have been lazarus.. But nobody deemed it fit to ask him.. And he did not record anything for us.. He just exited the story as much as he Was introduced... The hallmark of a fictional tale...

Sheol in an oversimplified or elementary manner can be grave or has been referred as grave

Grave/tomb/sepulchre/cementry sites are merely places of deposit for a corpse. When people die, their souls do not hang about, don't hang around, don't linger in the air. Souls do not stay in limbo. Souls do not haunt a place. Souls do not make revisits. Sheol is the realm of the dead or departed souls. This is where souls end up at.

Until Jesus' teaching in the New Testament, Sheol in general, without necessarily distinguishing between righteous or unrighteous souls, has ordinarily been the realm of the dead or abode of the dead

We have verses in the Old Testament (e.g. Psalm 9:17 et cetera) suggesting that the wicked go to Sheol but it was Jesus in the Bible, the New Testament to be precise, who brought things into perspective when He shared the hyperbolic illustration of Sheol with the story of the Rich Man being elsewhere and Abraham with the Poor Man being on a different side. Now someone like sonmvayina, might in trying to rubbish this might say, nah its a joke, but needs to remember that just because something is a joke, it doesnt necessarily mean the joke is devoid of some element of truth and reality in it, lmao.

Anyway, Sheol (i.e. the original Hebrew concept of afterlife) now has gray lines shared with Gehenna (i.e. the refuse dump in Jerusalem hyperbolically referred to by Jesus in Matthew 5:29 Matthew 18:9 and Mark 9:47) and Hell (i.e. a Greek mythology and Greek concept of afterlife) which arent really understood. The etymology of afterlife from a Jewish concept (i.e. Sheol, with 2 sections) has changed over time and Sheol, since, has being interchangeably replaced with Gehenna and Hell/Hades.

With the above since now brought to fore, no one can again try to say that the Bible did not really say much about what happens after death, when in fact evidence(s) of the bible saying quite a bit has there here just being shown

Daejoyoung:
Lazarus didn't say anything most likely because he was simply in a deep sleep and there was nothing to say.

If Lazarus had stayed more than four days, it'll probably have had something to say about Sheol.

Another explanation, is that there isn't cross consciousness between both realms. The dead have no connection with the land of the living and the vice versa the living with the dead. Once Lazarus was brought back he simply is unable to recollect whatever it is that transpired or happened in Sheol

Offpoint:
Then explain Matthew 27:46 in your own understanding, who was He talking to here.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” that is, “My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?”

I would easily and humbly explain Matthew 27:46 or even equally Mark 15:34 too to you, if you will confidently tell me what language is “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” spoken in? Mind you, I'll put my cards open and facing upwards, so you'll see that my curiosity in what language was “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” made in, depending on how you respond, will move on, to me next asking you, who were the target audience's hearing was “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” made for and why, as in meaning, whats the reason for saying “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?”.

I hope I haven't knocked you dazed with any of, how I am coming at you and where I am going with each and/or all of them?

Dtruthspeaker:
The simple understanding of the idea of Freewill vs Foreknowledge is Seen and Explained in a Father and Children Relationship.

Every father here has seen and experienced that he is Sometimes Able to Predict and Foresee what his children shall do but Does He interfere? No, he does not!

He watches to see what his children shall do! As was done to Cain and to Sodium and Gomorrah and all over the Bible, even right now!

Why? Every father here knows the answer! Which is to either Bless with more Goodies or whip and Cane dey come or some other plan wey d papa get, but na d papa na Im go get plan. Pikin can NEVER know I'm papa. All E fit do na to dey calculate and speculate and to dey watch I'm papa to see if him fit find I'm papa plan!

[img]https://s4/images/orijin-bitters.jpg[/img]
I trust you really weren't addressing this response to me sha but actually was directed at daejoyoung

Whoever you had in mind, still have this chilled bottle of orijin plus a truckload of kolanuts and after, sharp sharp, be next governor of your state of origin.

Right on point on all accounts. Wehdone Sir! Please drink responsibly though.

Daejoyoung:
MuttleyLaff, it is no longer freewill when it has already been known and even predetermined by the divine.

Freewill means it could go in either direction, or something could change. But what your arguement portrays here is that what would be would be, and nothing can change that. All we are doing is roll out the script of destiny and fate, and no amount of freewill can change that, isn't it?

God is simply acting his part of the movie by reacting the exact way he already knew he would react, and we are just playing out our roles as it is in God's foreknowledge. You can't have it both ways at a time, for it becomes a contradiction. You are simply against freewill just like the calvinist but it seems you don't realize it yet.

Daejoyoung, nwanne, brother, you're trying to say that there is no freewill, and so then implying because of that, human beings can't be held morally responsible for their actions because according to you "que sera, sera" what would be would be, and nothing can change that coming from an argument that all everyone and everything, humans, animals and things are each and all doing is following the lines in a scripted destiny and fate existence.

Daejoyoung:
You are simply against freewill just like the calvinist but it seems you don't realize it yet.

I am not against freewill. My having freewill is part of what sets me apart from an animal, object and/or whatever phenomena you can imagine.

Whether freewill is exercised or not exercised, freewill is intrinsically present in every human being and to be made use of as of from when maturely able to. Adam & Eve were matured enough to put freewill into use, so they did and the rest is history.

Now, please tell Daejoyoung, do you really believe that you don't have freewill?

Offpoint:
Your last line caught my attention... God came to earth in form of human or He sent His son?

Jesus is God incarnate nah. Dont tell me you're just hearing that.

Daejoyoung:
If God knows that I would be what I would be, then why does he get angry when I do evil?

Anger, is an emotional expression.
Are you trying to deny God displaying a displeasure and/or feeling over something bad you've done. Oh o, you rather God pull you over in His Arms, give you a cuddle, a kiss and pat on the head for you being a badass, hmm?

Daejoyoung:
God already knew Adam would sin, and man would fall, so why does he act surprised in the bible when they do these things?

You seem to be mistaking questioning for surprised. God wasn't surprised, rather God was questioning Adam after what he Adam did.

Daejoyoung:
for instance, God regretted at some point that he had made man. How could this be, if you say God was already expecting it to be so? God even said in the old testament, that it never crossed his mind that the people of judah would burn their children as sacrifices to moloch (Jer 32v35). Why is God acting surprised in all these?

"⁵Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth,
and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was altogether evil all the time.
⁶And the LORD regretted that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him in His heart.
⁷So the LORD said, “I will blot out man, whom I have created, from the face of the earth
—every man and beast and crawling creature and bird of the air
—for I am grieved that I have made them.”"
- Genesis 6:5-7

"And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret,
for He is not a man, that He should have regret.”"
- 1 Samuel 15:29

The word translated as regret is the Hebrew word "nacham" and it carries a sense of meaning interpreted as an expression, saying, to be sorry, comfort oneself for something about to do or is going to do. God was in effect sorry that He'll have to blot out man, whom He created with His own very Hands. It is only a cold indifferent person who wouldn't have a sense of sadness, using their own hands to inflict unpleasant or not necessarily nice things upon the creations of their hands.

I remember when growing up in high school, there used to be this teacher, who when he is about to reprimand with a few strokes of the cane, with tongue in cheek and said with audacit, say, before beating, that the beating, is going to hurt him more than it will us.

Daejoyoung:
Everything cannot be for the benefit of the testee, the tester also have a purpose for testing the testee, in Islam for instance allah created man to test him, and is same in some versions of christianity, if this is the case then allah or God wants to find out something from this test, isn't that so?

On the contrary sire, everything is for the benefit of the testee. For the simple fact that God is Omniscient, that He is all knowing, then by implication, there is nothing for God to find out. Everything is for the benefit of the testee, and that is for the record, that the testee prove himself/herself. The testee needs to go through the motions, the process, measures, the et cetera, so to check the quality, performance, reliability of the testee, especially with a single and simple test with the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil (i.e. TKGE) just before the testee gets rolled out into the widespread world, lmao

Daejoyoung:
The big question here is this, if God can already see what would happen or what we would decide, then nothing can change that, it would mean that all that happens have been fixed already, and this is why God has access to that knowledge, right??

You are not getting it. Everything and everyone must be allowed to evolve according to what and/or how their nature is. Ordinarily some are innately good or innately bad, but fact isn't an excuse nor a licence to discriminate and not permit either to come into existence.

It isn't about concerned about anything per se changing, but rather it is about having the fundamental right to come into existence and exist to express yourself according to whatever your nature is. However do express yourself, however you use the freewill gift you have been blessed with, God is able and capable to successfully work round it, so that His purpose, expectation and will are achieved

HedwigesMaduro:
He knew He would die and rise up.

The sacrifice there is leaving His glorious throne to suffer and die in the hands of mortal, sinful man.

Let me give you an analogy: If Dangote has one son who has been living a life of opulence, and was asked to leave his father's mansion and go and live in a very rough ghetto and suffer all the lack and problems ghetto people face, and be falsely accused and thrown into prison for 3 days, will the knowledge that his dad promised to rescue him from the prison and bring him back to live in the mansion make it less of a sacrifice on his part

kingxsamz:
The main question is, what's the purpose of the sacrifice?
Why did Dangote tell his son to live in such state or manner? What's the purpose?

Thank you ojaare for asking for this specific question, lmao

Daejoyoung:
In order to identify with, and to save other would be sons suffering in the ghetto.

kingxsamz:
You can't use that example to butress your point, if not It'd mean that Dangote would have to punish those who refuse to be helped by his son.

Daejoyoung:
But the dangote I'm talking about is not going to punish anyone but rather wants to save the people from the danger they are headed to. And no he didn't create the danger, and it is not a so called everlasting fire.

There is no escaping something or someone ending up in the kitchen dustbin and finally on the city's refuse dump site nah

kingxsamz:
Are you saying that the Christian belief about hell fire is a lie?

Gbam!

Daejoyoung:
I read hell fire in the bible as utter destruction, it is simply death without the hope of resurrection, and because of this, the body is burnt and not given an elaborate burial as expected in the Jewish customs. The fire used to burn the body is compared to that of ghenna ( i.e. a refuse dump in Jerusalem where the fire is always burning and worms are always there)

I remember when little, there used to be a refuse site, not far from where we lived. People used to go tip their rubbish et cetera on this refuse dump site to get rid of.

I recall now as if was yesterday, that the refuse site always had burning going on. You can see the almost ever present smoke coming out from the smouldering refuse dumping site. Of course, various rubbished already had been incinerated by the dump site fire, but the smouldering was almost never ending.

Hell fire is not a Jewish concept, it has a lot to do with Greek mythology. Gehenna, the city's incineration site, is something the Israelites/Jews could identify with or relate to, that is why Jesus used it, as an illustration to describe a place where badness is going to end up at and what is going to happen to such ending up there. The Bible upped the ante, when it revealed that hell/Gehenna and even death will themselves each and all end up in the lake of fire.

Offpoint:
If He knew, then was His death truly a sacrifice?

Wouldn't anyone whom is asked to destroy his bicycle and promised to be given a latest model car gladly destroy his bicycle?

I need seek answers from highly spirited Christians.

I've been trying to wrapped my head around this for long.
Saying he wasn't aware will defeat the purpose of TRINITY

Righteousness89 you're needed here.

Cc:
Lalasticalala
Dominique

"No one can take my life from me. I sacrifice it voluntarily.
For I have the authority to lay it down when I want to and also to take it up again.
For this is what my Father has commanded.”"
- John 10:18

"¹⁹Jesus answered, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up again.”
²⁰“This temple took forty-six years to build,” the Jews replied, “and You are going to raise it up in three days?”
²¹But Jesus was speaking about the temple of His body.
²²After He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He had said this. Then they believed the Scripture and the word that Jesus had spoken."
- John 2:19-22

Offpoint , His death truly in some many ways, is a sacrifice. One of the ways and reasons why it is a sacrifice is that God in spite of His sovereignty came down to earth, became a human being, mingled with human beings et cetera, simply just to achieve a do-it-yourself (i.e. DIY) necessary with a personal touch ring to it and that is evident because He could have done the necessary with a fiat, but He didnt

HedwigesMaduro:
Your logic is like "with God all things are possible", therefore it is possible for God to lie or make mistakes.

"Is anything too difficult or too wonderful for the Lord?..."
- Genesis 18:14a

"Ah Lord God! Behold,
You have made the heavens and the earth by Your great power and by Your outstretched arm!
There is nothing too difficult or too wonderful for You"
Jeremiah 32:17

" “Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh;
is there anything too difficult for Me?"
- Jeremiah 32:27

" But He said, “The things that are impossible with people are possible with God."
- Luke 18:27

Are you kidding me?
Everything is possible for God, albeit possibility doesnt necessarily mean God will do whatever that possible thing is. Case in point, now this is hypothetically speaking and for the sake of this discussion, so not to be taken personal, just because I can murder HedwigesMaduro, or because I am capable of murdering HedwigesMaduro, it doesnt mean that based on that possibility, I'll murder HedwigesMaduro.

The point being made up there is that, possibility doesn't mean the course of action will be or is taken. God can lie, but will God lie? I'll leave you to answer that. Has God allowed lying? Has God ever allowed lying spirits?

HedwigesMaduro:
So because God cannot be limited, if anybody tells you tomorrow that God is also the devil you would believe, right?

[img]https://s3/images/ObamaMuttley.gif[/img]
What kind of line of reasoning is this?

Whats the purpose of being gifted with a processing brain? When anybody tells me, good evening, I always go to the window, pull the curtain aside to check to confirm that it really is evening and good too.

I don't believe in unreal sayings, especially not like that one, saying that God is also the devil. I am not wired up that way so believe something like that

cjfbn:
Human spirit has what is called freewill. An example is a guy goes into a market with a gun, he has the freewill to shoot it not to shoot. If he shoots the gun, he is automatically tied to the responsibility which he must bear.
Man has freewill and God does not intefere. He can look at the course of action and predict what will happen in the future.

Daejoyoung:
But how can it be freewill,

1/ Why isn't it freewill?
2/ Have you not freewill?
3/ Do you need stay alive?
4/ If your answer to #3 above is Yes, then what is it called that what you exercising to stay and be alive?

Daejoyoung:
When God already knows what would happen?

So? God's foreknowledge does stand in the way of creationhood

Daejoyoung:
It has been predetermined in God's foreknowledge right?

Just because God knows the end from the beginning doest mean God is the player of the events in the that will unfold. Just because Gods know doesnt mean He predetermined anything. The player is the person that does the activities, it isn't God

Daejoyoung:
and what is the purpose of a freewill

The purpose of freewill, just as like every other gift, is for be judicious, rightful and correctly use.

Daejoyoung:
or test to God

The testee doesn't test the Tester.

Daejoyoung:
when God already knows the result?

The testee doesnt know the result, so means anything done is for the benefit information and sake of the testee.

Daejoyoung:
This is why many doctrines in Islam and Christianity makes no sense to people.

You are called out to do either. Not Islam. Not Christianity

olamy7:
well,I think it's very clear that the differences came as a result of role. Father, son and Holy Ghost are roles played by the same God.

HedwigesMaduro:
They were playing roles? Let's see the gymnastics you'll use for this:
"I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed". That's Daniel 7:13-14. Playing roles, right?

Yes, of course, playing roles.
Have you any problems with the vision ni?
Are you to tell God how or what method God chooses to do whatever God chooses to do ni?
Can you see God? Are you able to visualise God?
Have you seen my shadow, lmao?
You wouldnt be trying to put limitations on God, would you?. Or are you?

donnie:
What they speak and teach is modern Hebrew (Yiddish) a recently created language. Stop deceiving yourself.

Who taught you the Ancient Hebrew you claim to know when you do not even know who the Hebrews are? Mtcheew. Is it that halfcast that you showed to us?

In BANTU/Ancient/Paleo-Hebrew the consonant sounds are mostly silent, if they appear at the end of a word. [s]Humble yourself and learn and stop running your mouth like a mad man.[/s]

[img]https://s7/images/shmMuttleyLaffrolleyes.gif[/img]
What's this one saying

I don't give a rat's arse about your identity theft brothers and land grabbers Eastern European Polish/German origin Ashkenazi Jews Yiddish language.

I have already mentioned that Yahushua Ha Mashiach, meaning Jesus Christ, is in Paleo Hebrew text (i.e. ancient Hebrew) Paleo-Hebrew alphabet, also spelled Palaeo-Hebrew alphabet, also known as Proto-Hebrew, the script used in the historic kingdoms of Israel and Judah, and not your false alternative BANTU/Ancient-Hebrew word

You don't disappoint, as you always have comprehension problems of not capable of reading post to correct understanding.

Bantu kọ. Agantu ni

eplanning:
[s]See this one, you've signed to fight a man who said he has a mandate from God and you think you'll win with the ignorant, shallow world view you present in your posts?

If he truly is sent with these truths which he has clearly presented, then to try to cover or hide the truth is to CRACK because the message has been appointed for this time.[/s]

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41AiRdYKeFL._SX300_.jpg

"²⁷For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
²⁸There is neither Jew (i.e. Jewish as respects birth, race, religion; a Jew)
nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
²⁹And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."
- Galatians 3:27-29

False prophet, fake arse black-skinned African wannabe Israelite, still bent on perpetuating identity theft. Smh.

donnie, jumping from Roman Catholicism to Constantine Penterascal Christianity and now today, he is rooted in this black supremacy, black superiority over white hate on display ideology. Hopping from one frying pan into another, and now into jumped into the hot fire place

I wonder what with his Simon spirit, he'll take a fancy to next

MuttleyLaff:
donnie, keep on insulting the gullible and itching ears’ intelligence with his delusion about himself being an Israelite, his contradictions and fantasies, that makes no logical sense. This is why I keep pointing out that Baba d is flaky, he swayed from Roman Catholicism to Constantine Christianity and now today, he is rooted in this black supremacy, black superiority over white hate on display ideology. I am 1000% certain that soon tomorrow he’ll sway again however the direction of the wind of change blows and make a jump again.

Hopefully unlike his experience of jumping from the frying pan into the hot fire place, his next coming change won't be jumping into a deep black hole that he wouldn't be able to climb up and out from so to escape, but if he does repent, as just like the prodigal son did, get back to his self and right senses, he then will change and jump into the awaiting welcoming, loving and expectant Hands of Yahushua Ha Mashiach, aka Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world (i.e. refer to Luke 15:11-32 for the story about the ''The Parable of the Lost Son'')

donnie:
The BANTU/Ancient-Hebrew word is HAMASHIYAH form where you get MESSIAH. Not Hamashiach.

It's about time we correct you of this Yiddish you're speaking thinking you're speaking Hebrew.

Look at this fake arse black-skinned African impostor parading himself to be an Israelite, trying to confuse Yahushua Ha Mashiach, meaning Jesus Christ, in Paleo Hebrew text (i.e. ancient Hebrew) Paleo-Hebrew alphabet, also spelled Palaeo-Hebrew alphabet, also known as Proto-Hebrew, the script used in the historic kingdoms of Israel and Judah, for his false alternative BANTU/Ancient-Hebrew word, even the contradiction of adding BANTU gives him away and to make matters worse, mistaking it for the Ashkenazi Jews based vernacular fusion of elements taken from Hebrew and Aramaic, as well as Slavic languages and traces of Romance languages.

Fyi, mister identity theft and confused dot com, Mashiach in Paleo Hebrew, is Messiah, or equally Christ, in Greek, or Anointed in English.

You can't even manage to tie up your shoe laces successfully, all by yourself, yet you want to correct someone else. Smh. I have got your number. Until the day you repent, inasmuch as you remain on this course, I'll forever breathe down your neck. You and I have put foot into the same trousers leg.

Your egungun in full masquerade regalia has crossed expressway without looking both sides of the expressway properly.

Bodydialect57:
Patapata, change school and change uniform na

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqeO1Bw2x0c
This is not my real face ooo