₦airaland Forum

joshmoy:
Thanks, but i dont want a rephrasal of the question. I really meant infants who dies seconds after birth, and even up to 3 years or more. They don't know anything, they cant even make decisions for themselves. Child mortality is high in some areas and i want to know what happens to the kids after death.

The same response is applicable to them as well

joshmoy:
Ihedinobi3 mentioned that believers only were the ones who rose to heaven since their sins were atoned for. Now you're saying he paid for the whole world. Meaning the unbelievers then too were ransomed by the death of christ. if thats what u mean.

I am not trying to dodge your question or answer a question with a question but what did you read towards the end of 1 John 2:2?

joshmoy:
Thanks for your responses so far. Kindly bear in mind that I'm not asking these questions to spite christianity whatsoever. I'm a believer and my mind has been burdened with a lot of questions lately. Thanks

You are never going to go wrong from asking questions. Here is a tip though, always ask questions to a void

joseph1013:
In Matthew 19:3, Jesus is asked if a man can divorce his wife. In that context,

“ He answered, ‘Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning “made them male and female” [Genesis 1:27], and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh” [Genesis 2:24]? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.’ ”
(Matthew 19:4-6, NRSV translation; Mark 10:6-9 is a parallel text)

And your point with this is?

joseph1013:
If I have to strain my eyes to see God depicted as a feminine and find it ubiquitous the rendering off God as a masculine character, does that not show you the leaning?

You dont have to strain your eyes to read God described with feminine attributes in the bible, that was just tongue in cheek and subtle mild sarcasm

Ranchhoddas:
I see. I will remember to use them copiously

You dont have to. Was only saying it got me cracked up earlier this morning when reading your comment on the dry fasting thread

Ranchhoddas:
You are sounding desperate. What if he was a bad father, philandering, uncaring, a drunkard and a wife-beater?

On the contrary, it actually is you getting and being desperate, then go marry your own, not be coveting what is someone's else. I have already told you that besides God stopping the practice, science has backed up the reason why it is advisable to indulge in incentous relationships, but you winged it with how about if they arent going to breed? You desperate there with that angle, but you are cornered. There is no way the son will have his father's blessing to marry his mother. "Agbedo" loosely translated means "it just wont happen, it isnt going to happen"

Ranchhoddas:
As e take dey be you na so that man vs man own dey be me.
Tufiakwa!

You see God always has a foresight and He knew same sex relationships will eventually happen, so He by design, gave both male and female their individual G-spots. Bro, there is nothing tufiakwa there jor. If there is, then spell out what the tufiakwa is really. What exactly is the tufiakwa. Say it now, arent you a man?!

Freh:
What the Bible said
And again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
2 Samuel 24:1 KJV

The same story is told in Chronicles but God is replaced with Devil

And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
1 Chronicles 21:1 KJV

Also the bible didn't say they lost their covering it said their eyes were opened . So the fruit was an eye opener

And the Lord hardened the heart of Pharaoh, and he hearkened not unto them; as the Lord had spoken unto Moses.
Exodus 9:12 KJV
I didn't want to post anymore bible verses.
How can you expect non Christians to take you serious when you twist the Scriptures you call sacred.
Is it not in Deuteronomy that God said don't add or remove from scripture.
Also...
If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.
Job 34:14‭-‬15 KJV
If it is his spirit that gives us life how can we ever be separate. It's like saying the arm is separate from the head.
In people with multiple personality disorder. They can have separate personalities in one body. They can have a devil and an angel in the same body but both of them came from the same source. The separation is only apparent. This is an analogy if you think about it you'll get what I'm saying
To the dust they said. A soul is a spirit with a personality meaning we will all act the same if we didn't have a mind to make us individuals. Without the spirit the mind will fade away.

I have overlooked your impetuousness and forgiven it, please dont make the same mistake again twice.

Now let me start by asking you these questions Freh:
1/ Why do sponges get hardened?
2/ How do sponges get hardened?
3/ How and/or with what would you stop a sponge from hardening?
4/ How and/or with what would you permit or let a sponge harden?

The spirit, the breath, or if you like Hebrew, ruach, goes back to God, just as I earlier remarked, but it is the soul, that is a contention between God and Satan

LordReed:
The defense will probably be along the lines of the god said suffer not a witch to live. I was watching Shiloh live when Oyedepo slapped one small girl in the name of defending Jesus from witches. That was the defense he gave. If such a prominent "man of god" can publicly mistreat a person in the name of their god, it is left to the imagination what is going on in the secret.

It certainly is heartbreaking watching people submit their reasoning to irrationality and cause such grievous harm to people who can't defend themselves. I remember an incident similar to the Oyedepo one that happened to me. I was with a pastor who said jokingly, "you are possessed" to which I responded "with the holy ghost". If like Oyedepo the pastor had slapped me, I'd like to think that I would be capable of responding in kind because at the time I was old enough to defend myself. Those too little or incapable of defending themselves are vulnerable to these predators and should be protected from them. Alas those who often should be the protectors are the enablers.

I remember more than one occasion, meeting allegedly mog, happened usually because I went there with someone or I followed someone there, and it being mentioned in presence of others, to me in the vernacular "eleyi ti se" translated loosely, means, "this one is impregnable"

Freh:
How can we be condemned for making choices that he created. Evil is a possibility because God made it. Death is a possibility because he made it. Every action that can be done is permitted by God. He made it all.

Evil is the absence of good or goodness. Death is a dividing line, a separation from God. God is Sovereign, He can do whatever He likes or wants. We make choices and be prepared to face the consequences of our choices

Freh:
Have you seen video games where a small world like a city is made with buildings and so many things to interact with. In some of them you can go on a killing spree and kill people passing by. In others you can't even harm them. It was the creators design.
In some games you might be surrounded by beautiful girls but because sex is not in the program of the avatar it is not an option.
So the very things that we call sin. The things we desire that are wrong have been programmed into us.

Those are avatars, those are animations, this is real and human beings made in the image of God

Freh:
Was it not God who hardened pharoahs heart. Was it not God who moved David to count the people.

God did not per se, harden Pharaoh's heart, Pharaoh, was rearing to harden his heart but couldnt because God's Hand was on it. The moment God lifted away His hand, Pharaoh let hell loose. God doesnt do evil, no evil is in God. David too counted, on his own accord and following his impulse, not that God moved him to count. God allowed him to carry out what he had decided in his heart to do.

Freh:
Concerning the fall, the bible never said they were clothed with righteousness. That is just something we Christian's made up. It said that they were unclad and they knew it not.

In their innocence, they were vulnerable, but they knew it because they were covered, the moment the lost that covering because of sin, they became aware of their vulnerability and the state of being a position susceptible to harm or attack. Putting on clothing of righteous is bible talk and there are numerous mentioning of it in the bible

Ranchhoddas:
What if the father is dead? What if the incestuous couple do not plan to breed?
Who are they harming then

You this man sef. I am loving your questions.
When are you going to paste that your Jide Kosoko meme.
The last you pasted on that talk about dry fasting thread, got be doubling up and laughing like a hyena two o'clock in the morning

Well, the son is betraying his dead father and tarnishing the good memory of him, these are detriments
Now its you, who is now being disgusting, that is "ayama" some will even call it "idọti", haba, son poking his mom?

Freh:
If were separate from God then we shouldn't exist. Because in him we move and breath and have our being. There's probably a better term you can use which I made use of when preaching to people. We've all been cut from the same rock as the bible says. The spirit we have is God given and will return back to him as said in Ecclesiastes.
By the word of God everything in existence continues to exist so how can they be separate. The Jews never saw this separation that's why they credited both good and evil to God.

When times are good, be happy; but when times are bad, consider this: God has made the one as well as the other. Therefore, no one can discover anything about their future.
Ecclesiastes 7:14

Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
Amos 3:6 KJV

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Isaiah 45:7 KJV

The spirit breathed into man goes back to God after death, the soul however goes a place to await judgement at the appointed time

Ranchhoddas:
Hmm...
What is wrong with an incestuous relationship if it fulfils those criteria that you son love to reel out?

Are you honestly asking me this? Or you are messing about feigning ignorance?

Yeah, you've noticed I love to reel out: "two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour"

OK, notice "... no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person and not harmful to an object or neighbour" in the ending part of my remark. Of course, you know why incentous relationship was stopped by God, but if not, at least you know why science enlightens us of the harmful and unpleasant affect effect of it.

That son probably is a detriment to his father, betrayed his father and likely cheating on another person. SMH what a serial offender.

Ranchhoddas:
Disgusting is not an ambiguous word. What is there to explain?
Two men going at each other is disgusting.
I hate typing that. Don't make me do it again.

I will explain. Starvation, female genital mutilation (FGM), injustice, oppression, victimisation, homophobia, male farking his mother, sister, brother or vice versa, oppression, poverty, marginalisation etcetera is disgusting than x-raying the privacy and lifestyles of two caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour.

Freh:
We did not rebel.

We did rebel. A man without God is a rebel. Removing God from existence is a great act of rebellion

Freh:
In fact the bible clearly says that Adam and Eve were decieved.

Adam wasnt deceived but Eve was deceived, she admitted this by saying she was beguiled, as in, caused, in a deceptive way, to have a liking for and/or interest to the fruit.

Freh:
What kind of parent will punish his 3 year child for being deceived into wrong.

Adam and Eve were not 3 year olds. Adam was a grown man. He and Eve were not made children nor childish. Adam and Eve did not gradually change physically or progress to maturity as a child would do. Adam and Eve were created fully grown, made and developed to be responsible for their actions. Their minds were endowed with accelerated knowledge and so capable to be completely responsible for what they did or not do

Freh:
Adam and Eve didn't even know what unclothedness was and they're supposed to know "the whiles of the devil". In fact there's no way they would've known without eating the fruit in the first place.

Adam was clothed with righteosness, so didnt have to or need to know what nakednesss is. It is the eating of the fruit that stripped them off the clothing of righteousness

Freh:
Then God now says man Is now LIKE US, able to know good and evil. So the serpent wasn't lying after all

Like us, means, man has become a god, as just like us, will begin to judge between what is good and what is bad. The serpent lied about the price to pay for this premature privilege. The serpent lied about the huge cost and implication(s)

Freh:
Question: if Adam and Eve are the origin of everyone on earth that means all the races on earth came from them. I may not be a geneticist but I am a scientist and have some knowledge in that area. I can boldly say that phenotypic variations between races is too wide to have occurred from one single lineage in such a short time. It's stupid to think otherwise.
We are talking about people who have blue eyes and blonde hair. Or red hair and green eyes (irish). These phenotypes are too wide apart to have come from one single lineage. If it were possible for such to happen we would have seen more of it. Like lets say blue eyed Nogrrians by now. But that can only happen if crossbreeding has occured somewhere in his gene pool.
It's not even Adam it's Noah we should focus on.

It is even Adam, and it is even Noah too, it even is, Noah's daughter in law paapaa sef. It's all three we should focus on. #IfYouKnowYouKnow.
If you know, you know. Who no know, no go know.
cc Ranchhoddas, frosbel2

Ranchhoddas:
So if someone is doing something disgusting I should just fold my hands and do nothing.

Explain yourself, how do you mean disgusting, what exactly "patoo" is disgusting?

I would respond to your post soon Freh

joshmoy:
Morning all. I need a little clarification on something. Now Jesus Christ is said to be the way, truth and life.

First question: Do you believe in heaven and hell?

There is a place called heaven and its kingdom, as in, its territory extends from there straight down to earth, so in the affirmative, there is heaven.

Hell, exists, but the idea of hell, really is a Greek one, enmeshed in Greek mythologies. The correct word, from a Jewish perspective, is Sheol, instead of hell and if one wants to go further, then the lake of fire, so concluding, there is Sheol and there's a Lake of fire

joshmoy:
Second question: If you do, it is said that to go to heaven, you must be born again, accept Jesus Christ as your savior and all. Now, where do the infants go when they die (either during birth or before maturity)?

"A stillborn baby arrives in a pointless birth and goes out into the darkness. The darkness then hides its name."
- Ecclesiastes 6:4

I'll take the liberty of slightly editing your original question, by replying to the following improved:
"If you do, it is said that to go to heaven, you must be born again, accept Jesus Christ as your savior and all. Now, where do the infants stillbirths go when they die (either during birth or before maturity)"

That darkness, mentioned in Ecclesiastes 6:4 above, signifies, secrecy and hiding, as in, an indication of a secret place or hiding place, e.g. hiding under the cloak of darkness, now stillbirths, after death or when they die, just like everone else go to darkness. Of course, except you want it presented in further detail and/or go deeper into, at this jucture, it is suffice to say stillbirth go to darkness when they die.

joshmoy:
What is the criteria for the judgment of those who died before Christ?

This is avery good question too. I actually responded to the below next section first before starting with this section, so if you read further, as in next below, you'll notice the mention that the price or penalty for sin has been paid for the whole wide world, meaning everybody, every human being. Empathy and/or compassion, is at the top of the list of criteria for the judgment of those who died before and after Christ
It is on biblical record that empathy and/or compassion will get you a free pass into the Kingdom and/or a "get out of jail" card

joshmoy:
pls support your response with scriptural backing

I love quite a lot all your questions. I am sorry I didnt realise you are interested in scriptural references. I had already said I dont put forward such until when asked before reading this remark stating to support responses with scriptural backing

joshmoy:
Thanks for your reply. Tho i still have an issue with the last answer. Do you mean to say a simple sacrifice earned ppl places in heaven?

"He himself is the sacrifice that atones for our sins--and not only our sins but the sins of all the world."
- 1 John 2:2

In addition to all that Ihedinobi3 wrote that you replied to, yes, it is a simple sacrifice that was paid for the sins of the whole wide world. The actual word originally used is "propitiation", it literally means, to calm down, to placate, to make peace with, to win over or regain the favour of God by doing something that pleases Him. The thing is, because God is a principled and just God, His nature cant permit sin to happen without a subjection to a penalty or punishment. Now the solution to every human being not necessarily be subjected to penalty or punishment for sin is simply to replace something that is wrong with something that is right. The above 1 John 2:2 quote mentioning was unavoidable, because usually I do not quote bible verses until when asked, now this is why now, I am restraining myself from boring you with bible verses, and leaving out, in leaps and bounds, chunks and gaps of information but the absolute truth and fact of the whole matter, is the price for sin will cost us death, now the Good News is that Jesus, who incidentally happens to be God, has paid that price for us, with His life, by dying on the cross of Calvary. That which is wrong, was replaced with that which is right and above all, the penalty has been paid for too, as noticed stated in 1 John 2:2 above.
cc Ranchhoddas, frosbel2

Ranchhoddas:
Ehn ehn...
Empathy is not a Christian thing.
"Do to others as you'd have them do you" is universal.

MuttleyLaff:
It is reality Ranchhoddas

Rachhhoddas, compassion cuts right through Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, New Age, Heathenism, ATR etcetera

Tell Ranchhoddas, do you ever ask about someone's belief or unbelief first, before offering them help or assistance?
Do you ever first, ask about someone's belief or unbelief before extending your compassion to them, especially when in time of need?
Do you ask them first before helping, if they are a buddist, muslim, atheist or ATR practioner? No, I dont think you or anyone with the right thinking does. That is what we all are expected to do, an act like that is pure, true and you cant fault it. It is the religion that gives the person practising it, a free pass into the kingdom

Reading about it in the bible sure is comforting and certainly makes one feel right

Ehn ehn... you're getting me now
"Do to others as you'd have them do you" is all about doing not what is evil, doing not what is wicked. It is about doing good, it is about empathy and/or compassion. The giving or showing of, has no barrier, no predijuce, no discrimination, no hatery, no etcetera

joseph1013:
Kenny Brandmuse wrote :

When my mom passed, I had a request from home that we needed to make donations to her church - a Pentecostal church. In fact, I converted most of my family members into the Pentecostal movement when I was a preacher boy. Serendipitously, Aduke, my mom was one of my many converts. Unfortunately, since I became fully aware of my sexuality, I knew I had no future in the church. I never wanted to take the liberty to interpret the Bible my own way. As a former Bible school graduate and student, I know there are no two interpretations to certain doctrines in the scriptures.
Twist it or turn it, the Bible is clearly against same sex relationships. The Bible is also clear about the relationships between women and men in the body of Christ. There’s an order and a pattern: the man first, and the woman comes after. In fact, the pronoun ‘HE’ is attributed to the unseen God. In Billy Graham’s own words, “Metaphors used to describe Him in the Bible include: King, Father, Judge, Husband, Master, and the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Chris.” It’s the way the world was when the Bible was written. We can kumbayah around it all Sunday long, the Bible was never written for our private interpretations.

God does not have any problem with two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour. What was and is an anathema to God is sexual promiscuity, having multiple sexual partners, orgastic temple rites, temple prositutions, infidelity, sexual sacrifices with the belief that it brings about divine favour, blessings and/or a new and higher level of spirituality, sexual fertility rites etcetera.

If not obvious, then strain the eyes, you'll see metaphors used in the bible, that depicts the feminine side of God too. It might be the way the world was when the bible was written and that is because it was a patriarchal world then

joseph1013:
Ok, I digressed.
So the call came that I needed to send money to mom’s church in her memorial. I was conflicted. I knew how much Aduke loved her church. She was a Sunday School teacher. I also knew how much the church loved her back. As a single mother with so many adversities too numerous to count, the Church was my mom’s happy place. I recalled how I had baptized her so she could speak in tongues. How we both cried for joy when she started to pray in the Holy Ghost. No, we didn’t fake it. You simply open your mouth under the anointing, and the good Lord fills it with unknowable language and twangs. Even though all her problems never went away, my mom found happiness in the clapping of hands and the stomping of feet in the house of the Lord. She had it on a good promise that when she died all her troubles would be over, and that she would walk on the streets of gold. These experiences and promises provided an irreplaceable escape for her. How could one fault that! I can’t. I made up my mind that it was worth it. That it’s ok to send donation to mom’s church. People find happiness in where they find happiness. It’s our duty to protect ourselves from the toxicity of other people’s happinesses. And my hard stance against the church began to soften. (I still find religiosity quite amusing though).

It’s not my thing, but I have come to realize that the church has continued to provide a place for the weary to escape this wicked world for a minute or two. Some find this escape in other spaces, some just can’t escape and are daily confronted with the harsh realities of injustices and inequalities.

Then two days ago, my softening approach to faith and religion was tested in an Uber ride. I knew I was in for a ride when upon entering the car, I noticed that the driver had conspicuously placed a Bible on the designated passenger seat. I shrugged. I used my ass to move the Bible further away from me and pretended all was well. The driver, a beautiful black woman with a roundish face sitting under a long synthetic hair had some air around her. Her eyes �, as seen from her rear view mirror, planted themselves on my seat as though I had just murdered a person.

“You don’t like the Bible?” She said.

Not today, Satan! I disciplined my tongue not to say a word.

“I see that you are not saved,” she slowed the vehicle down as we approached the street ahead.

No, I’m not having this conversation, Lawd! I started to fiddle with my phone hoping for a call to come in.

“Young man, I’m asking you the most important question about your life: have you accepted Jesus into your life as your personal Lord and Savior?” She leaned back as she pedaled on slowly and steadily.

I had a lot to tell her but I remembered Aduke. Perhaps, this evangelism is what gives my Uber driver some form of happiness. Perhaps not. So I held back my fury and simply said to her: how sweet of you to offer me salvation, but no thanks. I do not need saving, and I’d appreciate if you could drive more carefully.

When my Uber app prompted me to rate my driver when I got home, I wanted to give her a star instead of five. I struggled. I came to the middle ground and rated her three stars.
The world could use some empathy right now, I thought.

Not some empthy but the world needs all the empathy and compassion
cc Ranchhoddas, frosbel2

dmakoy:
Here's a Throwback Video of Embassy of God Church Founder, Dr. Sunday Adelaja's Spiritual Father, Apostle Tuff Ulysses, raising $500,000 seed offering each from 10 members at Pastor Sunday Adelaja's Church's Event. Hmn! #InternetNeverForgets.

And Pastor Sunday Adelaja is now firing shots at Naija GOs, whereas they all belong to the same caucus.

God dey o!

Click YouTube link to watch:

h ttps://youtu.be/NoxjS-h1l-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZjiFHsvlBQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVsuCuZP87U
He was an ignorant participator then, when that scam by Apostle Tuff Ulysses was sprung on the sheeple but Adelaja is woke, discovered it is deception for pecuniary gain and since being shaking tables, not caring who is standing on them
cc frosbel2

CodeTemplar:
Can't imagine Oyedepo doing such. He even asks his members to stop giving and see if the church will lack. Let them go and learn from Oyedepo. Financial prosperity isn't by muscle oh... it is by principles.

SMH and out of curiosity, what are the names given for these so called principles?

Ranchhoddas:
Probably. It does not make it any less romantic.

True, but thought you earlier were scoffing at it

Ranchhoddas:
This reminds of song from the series "Empire"
I don't even believe that the kingdom is real.

Why? Put a finger on what makes you even not believe that the kingdom is real

Ranchhoddas:
You don't understand pidgin?

I sabi pidgin now, na just the way you come yarn that lingo nahin throwe me

Ranchhoddas:
You be Ajebutter?

I bin Ajebutter slash Ajepako, crime no dey for that

Ranchhoddas:
I mean that my empathy is large and cuts across species. I wish I could stop animals from being gruesomely murdered everyday for food.

Animals are not murdered for food, but correctly put, are killed for food consumption. You do know eating animals for food, wasnt part of the original plan for man, dont you? Man, in the beginning, started life out as a vegan

Ranchhoddas:
Red letter edition?
I'm sure there is a copy somewhere in my house.
There are a lot of things in the Bible that make a person suspicious.

No, but when you read passages in the bible written in red and white, as in words are written with red ink, it means, that is Jesus talking or saying something

Ranchhoddas:
Yesterday I stumbled on Zechariah 8:23. Want to explain it?
Seems to me like another stick for atheists to flog Christians with. I don't think they are aware of it yet.

How and why is this a weapon handy to flog with?

Ranchhoddas:
Ditto for wickedness

Wickedness is the absence of empathy and/or compassion

Ranchhoddas:
What about belief in Jesus?

"An expert in the Law of Moses stood up
and asked Jesus a question to see what He would say.
"Teacher," he asked, "what must I do to have eternal life?""
- Luke 10:25

Yeah, what about belief in Jesus? How do you mean, what about belief in Jesus? Never mind, those two preceded, are rhetorical questions, but Ranchhhoddas, are you familiar with and understand that reproduced above Luke 10:25?

Ranchhoddas:
There are many people on here would disagree with you.

For the gate is small, and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few are those who find it.
- Matthew 7:14

Ranchhoddas, never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream, besides, you know me by now, I am a one man MOPOL. I dont go where the path may lead, I go instead, where there is no path and leave a trail. It is not the first subject and certainly wouldnt be the last many people on here would disagree on with me. Recent would be, Ihedinobi3, he didn't share my view, which if you have been tracking the conversations between him and I on this thread, you would have noticed. He disagreed with me, definitely because he was paying attention to my finger, focusing on it and so missed seeing that, I was pointing at. Remember the thread is captioned "How Was The Black African Saved Before Christ - Discussion" and my contribution beamed a light on the area of darkness frosbel2 raised with the topic.

Ranchhoddas, the narrow path, is less travelled by. No wonder, Thomas Dewar, once famously remarked:
"There is no traffic congestion on the straight and narrow path"

Ranchhoddas:
Before nko?

You havent enthusiastically taken in this yet Ranchhoddas. Or should I share more to Luke 10:25 above? There is more than one flavour that gives one, a free pass into the Kingdom and/or a "get out of jail" card you know. I can share the bible passages, if curious.

Ranchhoddas:
Why do you think religion is called the opium of the people?

It is organised religion(s), like for example, Christianity, that is called the opium of the people, and not empathy and/or compassion, that is pure, true and without faults Ranchhoddas

Ranchhoddas:
Religion like every other tool, evolves according to the whims of its controllers.

Religion takes different shapes and forms, has different passions, interest, rituals etcetera, and so football is a religion, ice hockey is a religion, fashion for some is a religion and atheism too funnily enough, as well, is a religion but nobody, not even you Ranchhoddas, can find a fault in empathy and/or with compassion

frosbel2:
See who is talking about common decency

Chief, have we had a tiff before together? Or you're just being your usual nosey parker self? Shey mo ba ẹ jadu iyawo pọ ni? Isnt it because I have rivalled you for a wife before ni or what?

We are talking of decency to answer questions first before losing interest in the conversation, and here you are gatecrashing just to poke nose.

Ihedinobi3:
All right then. I'm afraid I will not continue this conversation with you. I do not believe that it will be fruitful in any respect.

I said We are NOT having nor going to have a blowout. We are two grown ups, having a healthy dialogue and meaningful conversation, sharing information coming from differing altitudes. Asking questions is the source of all knowledge. Common decency and the least you could do is respond to the 10 questions and afterwards then quit if you are afraid in continuing with the conversation with me. Truth crushed to earth is truth still and like a seed will rise again later bearing fruit. Old ways wont open new doors

Ranchhoddas:
A very romantic sentiment I tell you

It is reality Ranchhoddas

Ranchhoddas:
If this is the case na im be say I dey go heaven be that.

You possibly might get an in into the kingdom. Time is a snitch, let's not worry, time certainly will tell

Ranchhoddas:
I dey sorry for even Christmas fowl wey dem wan kill.

I dont seem to understand what this "I dey sorry for even Christmas fowl wey dem wan kill" remark. What's that all about please?

Ranchhoddas:
But the question is this:

How do you know this?

You can know this from reading about it in the bible. It's written in red and white Ranchhoddas.

Rachhhoddas, compassion cuts right through Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism, New Age, Heathenism, ATR etcetera

Tell Ranchhoddas, do you ever ask about someone's belief or unbelief first, before offering them help or assistance?
Do you ever first, ask about someone's belief or unbelief before extending your compassion to them, especially when in time of need?
Do you ask them first before helping, if they are a buddist, muslim, atheist or ATR practioner? No, I dont think you or anyone with the right thinking does. That is what we all are expected to do, an act like that is pure, true and you cant fault it. It is the religion that gives the person practising it, a free pass into the kingdom

Ranchhoddas:
Or are you just saying it because it feels right?

Reading about it in the bible sure is comforting and certainly makes one feel right

Guess exactly what Ranchhoddas, just like the word "mouse", the word "religion" too has changed its meaning from what it originally was. It has changed from when it used to be about benevolence, thoughtful consideration and generosity for other people in need. Its changed from when it used to be associated with the word compassion

Ihedinobi3:
I must beg your pardon. I try to be cordial with atheists, how much more my own brethren. So I am not going to have a blowout with you over this. As I said to Originakalokalo, if you present yourself as a teacher, you are responsible for what you teach. Whenever I interfere, it is always for warning or to avoid association with a teaching that I believe to be wrong so that the wrong signal is not sent to anyone who listens to me.

I try my best, but as long as a piece of string to be cordial with atheists too. We are NOT having nor going to have a blowout. We are two grown ups, having a healthy dialogue and meaningful conversation, sharing information coming from differing altitudes. I've known more of Originakalokalo now and enough for me to understand and suffer him gladly

Ihedinobi3:
For now, I will say first that it seems to me that you have mistaken my position on Christ completely.

How have I mistaken your position on Christ completely? Please clear me on this

Ihedinobi3:
Granted that much that I teach is strange and that when I talk to atheists, I typically do not offer Bible references, I hold firmly to the Bible as my authority. I try to teach ONLY what I believe the Bible to say, nothing more nothing less. The fact though is that most believers today know next to nothing about what the Bible actually teaches, so my teachings will always sound extrabiblical to them.

"My friends, not many of you should become teachers.
As you know, we teachers will be judged with greater strictness than others."
- James 3:1

Well you are the self confessed teacher. I however for very good and obvious James 3:1 above reason, dont parade or profess to be a teacher. I do not teach anybody anything, what I do is put the information out there so as to provoke and make others think. Secondly I don't post information here because I want to convince people who know differently but rather I post to show people who know and are woke, like me that they're not alone

Ihedinobi3:
Second, I answered your questions clearly. I do not prevaricate as a rule. Something else I do not allow myself to do is to get caught in a false dilemma. Your questions followed that line. I don't have to say, "yes, my great-grandfather did have an opportunity to believe the Gospel and never took it" OR "no, he never did" when neither is necessarily the Truth. I don't know if he did or did not. But I know from the Bible that no one has ever lived or will ever live who listens to their conscience and receives the witness of Creation and as a result seeks salvation who never received it through the Gospel. So, if my great-grandfather desired to be saved or even only to know how to be saved without eventually committing to Salvation, I am dead certain that he heard the Gospel. If he didn't, then I cannot be sure that he ever heard it.

There you go again, all potatoes but no meat and again going off on a tangent. Why cant to stick to the contains of the question? If I needed your info on the bible, I would have asked but I didnt, so why trying to take refuge in it. It is a simple, direct and straightforward question about whether or not you believe your great great grandfather had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached to? This would roughly had been around 160 years ago, basing it on a 4 generations gap span, as 40 years is a generation. There are 3 possible valid answers, which are Yes, No and/or I dont know

Ihedinobi3:
Finally, I know that the Judgments that will occur in the end will not be looking for defense of the sort that saves but to allow anyone who thinks that they have an excuse to present it and see that God has been completely righteous in all His dealings with them. I also know that God is not Man and it is foolishness to imagine that because men do a thing, so must He. What will happen the day that Jesus judges the Church and the day that He judges the rest of the world will comprehend the ideal that human courts strive for and exceed it by far.

I will repeat the question here again, edited to slightly improve on it.
If allowing everyone to a fair trial and fair legal representation is the standard on earth, are you making arguments that God has a lesser standard to this and so people would not have a right to fair trial and option for free legal representation?
Just give a Yes, No and/or I dont know reply

Ihedinobi3:
That is what I believe. I do not begrudge you what you choose to believe. I only encourage you to make sure that it is Scriptural. It is not my place to tell you what you must believe or teach. And while I will accept any reasonable rebuke or correction, I am not responsible to anyone but the Lord Himself for what I believe and teach.

I neither, do not begrudge you what you choose to believe or not believe, I merely am just probing your understanding, so please again, indulge me with these simple direct and straightforward questions:
1/ Is imposed and/or obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving scriptural?
2/ Is everything you believe in on earth, black and white, red and white in the scripture?
3/ Have you ever personally witnessed a court proceeding from its inception to sentencing?
4/ Do you believe God to be the God of perfect justice and the God of perfect righteousness?
5/ Do you accept and agree there is going to be a prosecutor at judgement?
6/ Do you accept and agree that Jesus is a Lawyer representing pro bono?
7/ Do you believe it is a fair trial allowing anybody to defend and represent themselves instead of an offer or option of having an experienced lawyer approach the bench on their behalf?
8/ Do you accept and agree that the price for sin has been paid for by Jesus Christ?
9/ If your answer to #8 above is Yes, what in the bible, is fundamentally required in order for anyone to qualify to get out of jail free because of what was done in #8 above
10/ Finally, hypothetically speaking, do you think, those who denied, disliked and refused Jesus whilst alive, would if given the chance after death upon being in front of God on judgement, would accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior?

HellVictorinho:
Man is not deity-like.
He is actually a problem unto himself which is not necessarily his fault.
Intelligence is not useful if it creates ten problems for every single one it solves.

Man is not deity-like, man however became a god after eating of the fruit. Man becoming a proble unto himself, was self inflicted, believing that the premature eating of the fruit will give him intelligence

hayoholla:
expound more on this bro.
thank you sire

You have to be specific sire. What exactly do you want more light shed upon hayoholla?

IGOJ:
I have a question.
What if I don't believe in any Religion whatsoever and I keep a good life with the general Knowledge of Good and Evil. When I die where will I go?

The positive impacts you made on other people's lives will be a determining factor of where you'll end up
In the end, its not the number of years in your life that count,
it's the number of lives in your years, you positively affected that count.

The lyrics of this hit song released by Fẹla is deep and laden with meaning: "Omi o lọta o. Water e no get enemy"
There is only one true and pure religion in the world that is without fault(s) - its name is empathy
Just like water, empathy e no get enemy.
cc Ranchhoddas

Ihedinobi3:
It was an inference from what you said.

I am not surprised you've gone for inference. Conjecturing is a very lazy option the mind revels in embracing. Whenever people dont know the truth of what of I've said, they usually resort to filling in the gaps with conjecture.

Ihedinobi3:
The idea that the Lord Jesus would play advocate for anyone who wishes it after death does suggest that if anyone were willing after death to be advocated for by Him, they would be.

You are misrepresenting and have misunderstood Ihedinobi3. I did not say our Lord Jesus would play advocate for anyone who wishes it after death, what I said is our Lord Jesus would be offered as an Advocate for anyone who wishes it after death. It does not mean, people will avail themselves of this, but means fulfilling all righteousness and following, honoring, respecting and adhering to the due process of law.

The below is an excerpt of me after watching Dantedasz YouTube's Christian Justice video:
"Even at crunch down, like in a court room, as depicted in that YouTube video, you can tell a lot about a person's character from how they act when the chips are down. Case in point, because of Mr Smith's and Mr Clark's chronic and hardened nature, they will rather go to the dark abyss, than lose face by accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour and personally acknowledging Him and having Jesus Christ as a Counsel to represent them. Notice in the YouTube video that Mr Smith and Mr Clark represented themselves. Need I go on? Need I say more?
- by MuttleyLaff: 7:51am On Jan 10

Ihedinobi3:
That does not fit with anything I know in the Bible.
Do you have scriptural support for it?

C'mon Ihedinobi3, do all things you know, fit everytime with what you know in the bible?
Ah, so you now, want to play your "do you have scriptural support for it" card?

Ihedinobi3:
If it was a wrong inference, then I am very sorry to make it.

It's no problem, it down to not knowing about Jesus' "The Lesson of the Lamp"

Ihedinobi3:
I'm not sure what to answer here. Your post seemed obvious in its meaning. If I mistook it, then I am sorry to have done but perhaps you could have been clearer.

"Pay attention, therefore, to how you listen.
Whoever has will be given more, but whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken away from him"
- Luke 8:18

Ihedinobi3, I can give you a list of other things not stated clearly and in details in the bible but they are a fact and reality. Quite a few things before Jesus explained them with parables and other means of that sort or other similar methods, were actually initially a blur, and werent seen clearly or heard off until His explanations made things clearer and easy to understand.

The introducing and first part of Luke 8:18 above is an acquired skill. It is grace that's increasingly developed over time. The second part though has a strange and frightening eerie tone to it, actually is just cautionary advice, a tip-off or as it were, a word of warning

Ihedinobi3:
Here again, it is not clear to me how this Bible passage has anything to do with what you said.

That passage, with the emboldened and underlines is letting you know, there is a court sitting, and it is one where the full gamut of the rule of law is totally going to be respected and adhered to. This includes, though it will be rejected, still be given the option to free legal aid

Ihedinobi3:
Not in the manner that it seems to me that you believe that there will be. I fully expect the Lord Jesus to judge the Church at His Second Advent, and the Cohort of Millennial Believers and all unbelievers at the end of History at the Judgment of the Great White Throne. I fully expect that everyone called before Him will be given an opportunity to offer a defense or ask questions and that He will answer every question and every defense. But He will not advocate for anybody at all. Today is when He intercedes for us, that is, believers, not unbelievers. Not at the Judgment Day.

What chance do you have offering a defense by yourself? What chance do you have representing yourself Ihedinobi3? Of course Jesus' intercedes for believers daily, but it doesnt mean fulfilling all righteousness and following all the due processes of law will not be honored, respected nor not adhered to Ihedinobi3 on judgement

Ihedinobi3:
I have no doubt that some human courts work that way.

Tell, what some human courts that dont work that way are called or known as?
If allowing everyone to a fair trial and fair legal representation is the standard on earth, are you making arguments that God has a lesser standard to this and so people would not a right to fair trial and option for free legal representation?

Ihedinobi3:
I don't know of any such aid from the Bible so I cannot have an opinion of what such people would do either way.

Fair do's but I will repeating the question slightly changed
Do you think Christophobics or Christ destructionists, really would take avail of a hypothetically speaking God's free legal aid?

Ihedinobi3:
I'm not sure I understand. King Agrippa rejected the Gospel when he heard it from Paul. We don't know if he later went on to accept it or not. But I see nothing here that has to do with any free legal aid at the Judgment.

If King Agrippa's rejection was recorded, dont you think, it is pertinent that it equally is recorded if he later went on to accept it or not.

Whether on earth or in heaven, free legal aid is a fundamental right & human right of the accused, it is not a privilege. Now, the point, all along being made, first with King Agrippa, is that whilst alive, he rejected Jesus, that even wouldnt change after death and because he is aversed to Jesus, he'll never and wont take advantage of the free legal aid and be represented by Jesus

The second, I am not sure whether I typed it in my earlier post, but it has to do with someone this time around that is dead and to show how the free legal aid though available wouldnt be taken up. Look at the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, notice that the rich man at death, still never had the common sense to what to made avail of the free legal aid. It is so close to them and yet so far away from them, it is like something in their nature, is denying them to confess Jesus as Lord and Saviour with their mouths and believe in Him with their hearts.

Ihedinobi3:
As I said, I don't know of any place where the Bible teaches that God offers any kind of free legal aid at the Judgment.

Fair enough

Ihedinobi3:
I know that He is going to judge the whole world, first the Church, then the Millennial Believers and finally all unbelievers. I know of no Bible passage that teaches that He is any kind of lawyer.

I totally emphatise with you for knowing of no Bible passage that teaches that Jesus is any kind of lawyer

Ihedinobi3:
Please refer to my previous answers.

Please just simply respond, as you prevaricated in all your previous answers

Ihedinobi3:
I am absolutely certain that if he ever desired it, the opportunity would have been given to him.

Another prevarication.
Let me put it in perpective for you:
Do you believe your great great grandfather had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached to?
This would roughly had been around 160 years ago, basing it on a 4 generations gap span, as 40 years is a generation.

Ihedinobi3:
I do understand that he is not often an easy person to discuss with but I do not share your sentiments about him. We all make mistakes. As a matter of fact, we all make lots of mistakes all the time. And anyone with a zeal for God's Truth should be encouraged in it not scolded with such vehemence for their errors.

I am not fazed by mistakes Originakalokalo made or not. Truth never decreases by being shared. The light of the truth can be harsh to the eyes of those that are in the dark of a matter. Originakalokalo should next time not use the "It is a doctrine of the devils I tell you" line etcetera.

Ihedinobi3:
I already answered a version of this question above. If he never believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, whether as the Promised Messiah or the Given Messiah, he is in hell.

I didnt ask you where your great great grandfather is. What I asked about is your great great grandfather's fate, as in, what is the fate of your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached? Now, if you say and still insist, he is in hell, then please tell, what criteria and justifications is he in hell for? Make sure you give criteria and justifications that can make him be in another place other than hell

Ihedinobi3:
As I said, I know of no such legal aid from the Bible. What I do know is that the Gospel was preached to all who had any interest in hearing it. And every human born with a normal intelligence has always possessed a conscience and a clear ability to tell that not only does God exist and is He perfect and just as well, but that we are also very sinful and headed for no good end unless something is done. So, we have the incentive to seek out the Gospel and God's Grace Means to access it. No one has ever lacked either. But not many have sought out the Gospel. No one who ever did was denied it for any reason, however.

OK in light of the above lenghty sentence, so why did you in the same above reply to "What is the fate of your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached?" question, say that your great great grandfather, who never had the opportunity of the knowledge of Jesus Christ and the Gospel preached is in hell?

Back to the question again but this time, whether you or dont know of no such free legal aid from the Bible, please respond:
Since your great great grandfather wasnt preached to, in the grave to by Jesus, does he have or not have the right of access to the best legal aid available, free or not?

frosbel2:
How does opening threads to discuss important topics tantamount to 'venting frustration'.

I know that expectation is the mother of all frustration, but learn how to turn your frustration into fascination, especially when it has to do with God. You will learn more from opening threads to discuss important topics by being fascinated by God and His creations in general, than you will be from being mad at God, feeling dissappointed with God and being frustrated by all you see around you.

Do you know about the parable of the lesson of the lamp at all? Well, I upcycle wine, whisky, beer and general all kinds of bottles into vintage bespoke handmade lamps, perfect for/as, bedside, lounge/living room/dinning area, cafe/bar/clubs table lamps. Now, ask 10 people to take a look at any particular one lamp of my collection, trust me, you'll get 10 different perspectives, however if someone's to say, "The lamp is evil, that the lamp is ugly, that the lamp created and/or caused the ills all about" then that statement actually is not telling nothing true about the lamp, but it does, however, say a lot about the person with this opinion.

What people say about God, has nothing to do with God but has a lot do to do with the person, somebody like you frosbel2, who enjoys and likes to put God down with scathing threads and salty posts.

frosbel2:
Naturally I am inquisitive ...

I am glad you know and admit that you're a nosy parker.

frosbel2:
... which is actually what took me away from religion, whats wrong with that?

With all your inquistiveness, you see how you havent recognised that religion will give you a free pass into heaven. I know you find it hard to believe that pure and true religion that's faultless earns you a free pass, so would you like the bible passage(s) that provides clear evidence of this?

frosbel2:
Now I know you are not only deluded but also insincere...

Many have an image of me. Few get the picture

frosbel2:
...not worth my precious time and using your own words 'totally OUT OF YOUR DEPTH' when it comes to deep matters pertaining to the BIBLE and it's history.

The deep matters pertaining to the BIBLE and it's history you know, is a drop of water, compared with the ocean you dont know.

frosbel2:
Go watch some YouTube videos and educate yourself.

You can watch YouTube videos till kingdom come but because of your negative standpoint, you will never get any nourishment from it

luvmijeje:
Seun, what's happening? I was mentioned and it didn't appear on my mention.

Yup that mention feature has stopped giving posters notifications when their monikers are mentioned.
It seems the "mention" flag was inadvertently switched off and not switched back on after the usual site maintenance routine.

frosbel2:
Trust me mate, I always know when a guy has lost the argument, they resort to petty barbs.

Oh well, was nice talking to you on this topic.

Hopefully some more sincere others can do justice to these questions.

Trust me billy no mates, I know when a person is gagging to be laid, thats when he vents his frustration on others, opening ill conceived up threads and starting arguments to share his ignorance with.

It would be nice talking to you on the topic when you are ready to discuss and come for an argument, but I know that's too much to ask, you are bent on your unreasonable arguments. People like you, would start an argument in an empty room. Truth needs no argument, but not a lie, lies needs many arguments.

frosbel2:
^^

End of argument. Swallow your pride and move on -

Oh by they way I am not looking to get laid, I actually have a wife , lol.

I know you do, that's why I suggested you neeed getting laid and get laid real quickly
What I posted up there, even as succinct as it is, went swoosh over your head. Your tummy isnt strong to stomach it. Like I earlier said, you are out of your depth

frosbel2:
^^^

Wow - is this your rebuttal ?

I actually thought you had the historical knowledge and bible awareness to at least meet me half way with your answers. Alas , you could only scribble a few lines of unintelligible rubbish, hoping that some of the younger ones here will think you have made some sense. Well, I say you are not making sense , rather , you are making up nonsense,

I give you another try

You are either a clown or maybe you need getting laid

frosbel2:
Debunked :

"but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die." - Genesis 2:17

"And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." - Genesis 3:22

Debunked my arse.
Just because a fish is in ocean or river, doesnt mean it is drinking water

frosbel2:
Brain dead argument. So this is how MAN was tested to be a better MAN ;

1. Knowing that he will SIN and exposing him to SIN ( Instead of protecting him ).
2. Pursue a policy of collateral damage to all MANKIND because of the actions of one man
3. Usher in an eon of suffering , pain and hopelessness.
4. Blame MAN for it
5. Hide the concept of HELL from MAN so he can blindly SIN and not know the consequences
6. Prepare for him an eternal furnace of unquenchable fire for all eternity

This is your definition of a TEST ??

Are you done? Are you finished? You pulled all those six bullshit from your rear end, abi?
I wont dignify these false bullshits a reply other than come back when you get your facts right and your ducks in a proper row

frosbel2:
In other words, his descendants inherited the blame for the SIN of their ancestor which then means;

1. They are ALL guilty of SIN at birth
2. Free will is non existent
3. MAN is setup to FAIL from day one

This is not JUSTICE, it's RUBBISH

Are you feeling better now after the rant and rave?

frosbel2:
LIE!

The original word used from the Lexicon is Hebrew - וָרָ֔ע (va·ra,) which means evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity

Your so called Merism (Apologist bullsh1t) cannot change the original meaning of the word.

What is evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity, if not adversity?
Have you checked yet the meaning of "towb"? (i.e. the original word Good was translated from)

You're doing a good job showing how ignorant you are about merism

frosbel2:
So man was setup to fail which resulted in sin which resulted in death and suffering and pain and then another man (who is also GOD ) was sent to be the panacea for this initial fall that was caused by the setting up of MAN to fail and sin and then suffer in pain.

I say bladderdash

If you find yourself creating from scratch similar Microsoft Word documents over and over again, what advisably should you do? What do you think is the name of the solution for not be repeating creating from scratch each new Word document? One word please.

frosbel2:
The absence of good may not necessarily mean evil if evil did not exist. The absense of good is evil because evil was created as a contrast to good.

WHO CREATED EVIL?

Evil is an emergent phenomenon. Creating evil has no exclusivity about it. Evil "created" can be as a result of a suppressed evil nature and also from a collective effort

Evil is the absence of good, just as darkness is the absence of light

frosbel2:
God should always triumph over evil not wait to the end.
Are you suggesting by this statement that God intentionally allows evil to reign for millennia upon millennia knowing that this evil will include pain, suffering and anguish? Is this not what you call SADISM ?

I actually meant to type God and humans triumphs over evil in the end and the end justifies the means

God is following due processes, I am sorry but you'll have and got to crack a few eggs to make an omelette

frosbel2:
@MuttleyLaff

I know these are difficult statements to counter.

Take your time Next week is okay

See? You are not only out of your depth, you are a glutton for punishment too. You like being in pains, you enjoy being in severe pains, dont you? You must be masochist is why. SMH