₦airaland Forum

Originakalokalo:
@ Muttleylaff,

You only believe in Jesus before death...

There is no forgiveness in the grave..for those who are alive and have heard the gospel. ..

It is appointed unto man to die once.... And after that judgement.

I am hearing this from you for the first time... It is a doctrine of the devils I tell you.

You are quick to flag it as a doctrine of the devils. SMH. I empathize your ignorance.

Like frosbel2 asked, what is going to happen to people (e.g. your ancestors) that never heard of Jesus, huh?

Originakalokalo, have you been to watch court proceedings ever at all?
Please try go to your local one or just watch on satellite channels, to observe how everything is taken into account, every action is weighed against the circumstances, the same opportunity is to be given and done with your ancestors, each will be given the chance of availing of Jesus Christ to represent them. God is a just God and He will consider all and take their circumstance(s), I mean everything and all things on board during their standing before Him on judgement day.

budaatum:
I said it was a difficult one. And since we'd very likely argue where the beginning is, you might see my dilemma. Take humans for instance. The beginning of the human race according to some Christians would be Mankind. But some will argue it was when God breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Then I, with my you know mes, would throw in an ape and call you a baboon and all hell would break loose. You might see my dilemma.

It is an easily resolvable dilemna, if/when you define the beginning you're discussing. Is it the beginning of when creation man was a thought deliberated in the Godhood budaatum?

budaatum:
And then there's the obvious fact that all things that exist, whether created or not, have a beginning. In fact, one can very easily trace the development of your God Yahweh to it's beginnings, (and do note this capital for your god is the very last one!)

This unusual and rare goodwill gesture of yours, propercasing or capitalising first letter of the word god I can proudly say has not gone unnoticed. I have whilst the ink was wet organised to commission a portrait showcasing it. Thank you very much budaatum. Muchas gracias!

From the Jewish perspective, God, is and can be known as Yahweh.

budaatum:
Yes. Everything that has a beginning has not created itself. Everything that exists evolves (you may read that as 'exists') from what preceeded it. There is nothing to suggest an evolver or pre-existor had any part to play in it since its only function is time, and, environment, to a pretty large extent.

God is Eternal. He created time and so personally is not affected by the passage of time. God has no beginning nor end, that's how and why He is self-existent. God exists above and independently of other gods

All things came into being through God, and without God not even one thing came into being that has come into being. God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can't see, things such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through God and for God. Ex nihilo is God's speciality and pastime budaatum.

budaatum:
And as a belief, you might see benefit, but for the advancement of knowledge and the betterment of an ever increasing world? All I see is poverty, and exploitation and squalor in such beliefs. You experience this in your argument with your fellow believers on homosexuality. They too believe as assuredly as you believe that they are right.

I am not sure who you ascribe what "your fellow believers" to be, besides that it is about who is right on homosexuality, but rather it is about the right thing about homosexuality, it is about what, about what is right and not who is right or they are right budaatum

budaatum:
Muttley, Is it not righteous to understand than obediently believe? Did not Jesus prescribe a balanced diet?

buddatum, you absolutely nailed it on the head, though we already have been made the righteousness of God in Jesus, it still is a good thing to fulfill all other righteousness. Of course dear friend budaatum, Jesus did prescribe a balanced diet, but remember that it is by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, how I wished he obediently believed even though he might not immediately understand why not to eat and the complex and/or unwelcome consequence of the action and event

frosbel2:
^^^^

Passport to lawlessness.

Do all you evil you can and repent on your death bed, Jesus the advocate will take care of things for you

Trust me Pal, I am used to all the Christian permutations for salvation - its a joke. They are contradictory to one another.

That's why some of the worse sinners can be found in Christendom.

Here is another one for you ;

There are two Men

Man 1 - Cheats, lies, murders and steals - on his death bed he asks for forgiveness in the name of Jesus
Destination - Paradise

Man 2 - Does not cheat, lie, murder or steal - on his death bed he does not ask for forgiveness in Jesus name
Destination - Hell Fire


You guys are Jokers.

Originakalokalo:
Before I answer the main question of the thread, let me address this.

Anyone.....I repeat.... .anyone who asks Jesus for mercy and plead guilty BEFORE DEATH will be saved.

Either on the sick bed, or wherever.

The thieves on the cross with Jesus comes to mind.

The big question is this.... How are you sure you will have that opportunity?

People have died in a matter of seconds.. In the twinkling of an eye.

You blaspheme God, mislead people with your comments, do wickedness, and all atrocities because

You are waiting for the opportunity of the sick bed?

You need to think again. That devil you are working for is working against you at your back.

He is always accusing you before God and looking for every opportunity to CUT YOU SHORT SUDDENLY. ..

You think he doesn't know about "last minute repentance? " people die in accidents suddenly

Some slept and never woke up

At all, the poster of that comment that made you Change your mind that there is no God,

May have the opportunity at his dying moment to ask God for forgiveness and beg for mercy....

and when the opportunity comes, he begs. You won't be there to see that happen.

He gets saved, you get condemned.

The matter of the soul is a personal thing.. Don't look at people's conclusion to believe. Search for the truth yourself.

I won't be surprised if I see the likes of Frosbel and Lordred in heaven... somehow, there is still a covering of mercy on them both...

....and if originakalokalo decides to stray because of their comments,

You just find him in hell.

More like the first being the last and the last being the first.

The access to have Jesus Christ represent you, is the right to free legal aid, you share of with every other human being. It doesnt matter how unpopular, nasty or horrible a person you are, if you believe in Jesus Christ and want Him, anytime, in your life, before or after death, to take your case, He will, He will take your case as an Advocate, Defense Attorney, Defence Counsel, Lawyer, Solicitor or Barrister and win it for you. Instead of you representing and defending yourself, it is Jesus Christ who this way comes to your aid and brings His expertise to the task.

Read earlier post above yours and even read further on below Originakalokalo for more. The chance is still there after death and there is a good reason for the provision and just set up

Dantedasz:
h t t ps://youtu.be/VWAUhadJzTk

The YouTube video is flawed on many fronts and is riddled with false and inaccurate information, especially and deliberately intended to mislead with. There are more holes than Swiss cheese in the warped YouTube video

The word Jesse and name Jesus Christ is an anathema for the Mr Smith and Mr Clark of this world, so his nature will never let Mr Smith accept Jesse as a Counsel to represent and defend him. This Jesus Christ deep-seated feeling of aversion is applicable to the frosbel2, Dantedasz etcetera of this world declining the free legal aid service of Jesus Christ.

The fact and truth of the matter, is that Jesus Christ depicted as Jesse, in that YouTube video, already 2000 years old, was wounded for human beings' iniquities, He was bruised for human beings' sins, endured punishment that made human beings well and because of his wounds human beings have been healed, there is no need for Jesse to be punished again for Mr Smith and Mr Clark, all that Mr Smith and Mr Clark needed to do is to accept Jesus Christ, confess Him with their mouth and believe in heart, but do you really think that will happen huh? Hell will have to freeze first before any chance of that could be considered it will happen

Even at crunch down, like in a court room, as depicted in that YouTube video, you can tell a lot about a person's character from how they act when the chips are down. Case in point, because of Mr Smith's and Mr Clark's chronic and hardened nature, they will rather go to the dark abyss, than lose face by accepting Jesus Christ as Saviour and personally acknowledging Him and having Jesus Christ as a Counsel to represent them. Notice in the YouTube video that Mr Smith and Mr Clark represented themselves. Need I go on? Need I say more?

budaatum:
For anyone willing to upgrade their beliefs to a bit more modern ones, here is a free pdf of Stephen Hawkings A Brief History of Time to dowload.
The devil is the lord of ignorance!

Very aptly put

frosbel2:
^^^^

Passport to lawlessness.

Do all you evil you can and repent on your death bed, Jesus the advocate will take care of things for you

Trust me Pal, I am used to all the Christian permutations for salvation - its a joke. They are contradictory to one another.

That's why some of the worse sinners can be found in Christendom.

Here is another one for you ;

There are two Men

Man 1 - Cheats, lies, murders and steals - on his death bed he asks for forgiveness in the name of Jesus
Destination - Paradise

Man 2 - Does not cheat, lie, murder or steal - on his death bed he does not ask for forgiveness in Jesus name
Destination - Hell Fire


You guys are Jokers.

You think it is as easy as that, huh?
You think it is about "... on death bed ask for forgiveness in the name of Jesus..." huh?
Your true nature is stronger than you to wanting to take avail of God's free legal aid just like that.

Have you been to watch court proceedings ever, observed where by everything is taken into account, every action is weighed against the circumstances, the same can be done with and by Jesus Christ. God is a just God, He will consider all and take everything on board during judgement

janettee:
They will end up in hell fire since salvation is only through our Lord Jesus Christ ..

The latter part of your remark has a ring of truth in it.

janettee:
What do you mean by god's substitute?

Ihedinobi3:
That is, the Person that God would provide to take the place of Man in judgment. Before the Cross, it was not known who Jesus would be. But everyone from Adam and Eve who cared knew that God would send a Savior to die in man's place so that human beings can be saved. Believing in that Promise before Jesus came saved anyone who chose to believe. Believing in Jesus after He came saves everyone who chooses to believe.

janettee, in addition to the valid points immediately above typed by Ihedinobi3, Jesus Christ will be available to represent people when the time comes to give account and explanations for our every thought, every word and every deed we've done. He is an Advocate, somewhat what you know a defense lawyer to be. Just that in this situation, He is like a duty solicitor, duty lawyer or a public defender, who is available to represent you and on your behalf defend and give explanations for and/or behind your every thought, every word and every deed you ever did.

The access to have Jesus Christ represent you, is the right to free legal aid, you share of with every other human being. It doesnt matter how unpopular, nasty or horrible a person you are, if you believe in Jesus Christ and want Him, anytime, in your life, before or after death, to take your case, He will, He will take your case as an Advocate, Defense Attorney, Defence Counsel, Lawyer, Solicitor or Barrister and win it for you. Instead of you representing and defending yourself, it is Jesus Christ who this way comes to your aid and brings His expertise to the task.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved. For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. If you're damned by the each and every thought, every word and every deed you've ever done, then only one Person that I know, is capable as an Advocate, of getting you off the hook is Jesus Christ

Anybody, everybody dead or alive can avail of this free legal aid service paid for by God, and have Jesus Christ mitigate, represent you and cross examine your accusers and/or prosecution witnesess. Funnily enough, some will rather opt for Satan's dark abyss than for a second confess with their mouth and honestly say, "Jesus is Lord" (i.e. honestly say, "Jesus is my Owner'')

frosbel2:
Says the one who supports a stance that is opposed to the delusion faith that he embraces , lol

God is not a homophobe like you openly and without guilt or embarrassment are

You that typed: "homosexual behaviour should be unlearned" like as if gays, in the first instance, learned same sex attraction
When you're asked: "Did you learn to be heterosexual?"

"Naturalised.... " being what was your reply to "Did you learn to be heterosexual?" means gays too naturalised, as gay behaviour is natural to them

frosbel2:
Oh please, if you knew me you would be envious. I am living a life of bliss, free from the clutches of religion and its delusions.

I am not envious of you, actually I feel very sorry for you, especially because you're living in a fool's paradise. You escaped the wolves in sheep clothing to be caught by mischievous goblins

frosbel2:
Btw, I do believe in my version of God.

Why am I not surprised, you do believe in your own version of God. I already know you believe in your version of God that is a homophobe just like you are.

frosbel2:
You are obviously even more deluded than the squealer.

You would say that, wont you?

Those who dance are considered deluded by those who cannot hear the music

frosbel2:
Which part of 'Christianity is bullsh1t' do you not understand?
I should know better, after spending circa 20 years in a state of delusion.

I am familiar with and fully understand the whole part of Christianity. You should know better that after spending circa 20 years in a state of delusion, you jumped and leaped out from frying pan into fire.

Shame it doesnt get easier for you. Well nothing surprising in that because if you carry old bricks from your past to your new and current existence, you will end up building a similar deluded house like the previous one you felt uncomfortable in before.

Shelumiel:
Online atheist, how market?

Let me put on my best Robert De Niro impression, clears throat:
"You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? " [turns around to look behind me]
"Well, then who the Hell else are you talking- You talking to me? Well, I'm the only one here."

Who is the online atheist? What's with the how market question?

Shelumiel:
You're dumber than I thought:
So you're indirectly telling us here that you've not read the whole bible through before posting that trash , right ?

frosbel2:
Stop squealing, just say I do not know. Ignorance is not a SIN.

He is indirectly warning you frosbel2, about becoming a tool that doesn't even know its being used and all you could pathetically say back in return is: "Stop squealing, just say I do not know. Ignorance is not a SIN"

frosbel2:
I often wonder what the spiritual fate of our ancestors was , a few odd years after Christ was resurrected. How were they saved, what happened to their spirits after death , what part did Christ play in their culture and religion.

Christianity was brought to Sub-Saharan Africa with the arrival of the Portuguese in the 15th century

This means that after the resurrection of Christ which was the most important event after the creation of man, it took over a millenia for the GOOD NEWS to arrive on the shores of the BLACK MAN.

Yet the bible contains these significant scriptures on salvation

"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." - Acts 4:12

"For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" - 1 Timothy 2:5

Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again."

So if the death and resurrection of Christ was so VITAL to the salvation of mankind , and any man or woman who died without Chris was hell bound, WHY did it take over a millennia for Christianity to reach black Africa. Ironically when it did eventually reach our shores, it was in the form of colonialism and slave trade which we all know were brutal practices.

Few questions ;
1. Is it not strange that something so important as salvation was delayed for so long
2. Did God not want the black man saved ?
3. Was the black man not god's priority ?
4. Did black people who died worshipping idols in those ancient days go to hell fire ?
5. Did the black men who married more than one wife go to hell after death?

MAIN QUESTION = HOW DID THE BLACK MAN GET SAVED BEFORE CHRIST AND WAS THIS METHOD OF SALVATION VALID IN THE EYES OF GOD ?

Excerpt from the article ;
"In the interior of the continent most people continued to practice their own religions undisturbed until the 19th century. At that time, Christian missions to Africa increased, driven by an antislavery crusade and the interest of Europeans in colonising Africa. However, where people had already converted to Islam, Christianity had little success "

1. Is it not strange that something so important as salvation was delayed for so long
Answer:
"you cant hurry the harvest" Are you not familiar with that saying?
Salvation delayed, is not salvation denied. Salvation comes and came when due.

2. Did God not want the black man saved?
Answer:
God wants every human being saved

3. Was the black man not god's priority?
Answer:
The black man as much as every other human being is God's priority

4. Did black people who died worshipping idols in those ancient days go to hell fire?
Answer:
Get your facts right please, because no human being yet, including the black people who died worshipping idols in those ancient days are in "hell fire". Also hell and death ultimately will be thrown into the lake of fire

5. Did the black men who married more than one wife go to hell after death?
Answer:
You have been misinformed, that's why you keep harping that people go to hell after death. People go to Sheol after death.

MAIN QUESTION =
HOW DID THE BLACK MAN GET SAVED BEFORE CHRIST AND WAS THIS METHOD OF SALVATION VALID IN THE EYES OF GOD?
Answer
It's simple, it's by sheer doing pure and true religion that is faultless. Doing pure and true religion that has no fault enhances the prospect albeit the price of the cost of salvation has been paid by Jesus Christ

budaatum:
This is a difficult question! My first instinct is to say, Yes, "anything that has a beginning cannot create itself". A creator must create anything that has been created.

I'm just glad you never said "everything that exists must be created".

9inches question was:
Do you agree the following is a true statement, "anything that has a beginning cannot create itself"?

So are you accepting and agreeing with him that anything that has a beginning cannot create itself when you replied with:
"first instinct is to say, Yes, "anything that has a beginning cannot create itself".

budaatum:
No. The creator of anything with a beginning must also have a beginning! How else could it possibly come into existence if it did not at one point in time come in to existence?

And don't give me "it was always in existence", unless you precede it with "I believe"?

9inches:
I believe it was always in existence. Amen.

budaatum, the Creator has no beginning and has no end. The Creator is self existent. The Creator exist independently of other things and/or causes. The Creator causes, permits, authorises, gives power to, influences other things to emerge, appear and become visible. Things come about, things come into being, things come to light, things surface and present themselves through and/or because of the blessing, intelligence, knowledge, wisdom, influence , permission and power of the Creator. Nothing exists and/or could exist without the knowledge of the Creator (i.e. even sin, that turned up in Satan first, when in heaven the same sin that desired to have and had Adam on earth)

budaatum:
Was Adam's world different to the one the sinning devil was cast out into, muttley!?

Yep, it was different. The difference is that Satan was in heaven and Adam was on earth

budaatum:
Is it not actually true that the casting out of the devil into the world was what brought sin into the world?

That is not true. Adam eating of the fruit is through what sin got brought into Adam's world, the world system

budaatum:
You sure like muttleying yourself up muttley. If there was a devil, I'd claim it helps you muttley yourself sometimes, but honestly, you muttley yourself up all by yourself! What amazes me is that you are very smart too. So how you could possibly use that smartness in the muttley way you do is a wonder.

Where you the child of a reverend, or something and got filled this your reasoning and nothing else from a very early age? Anyone else would at least consider the facts with their own (God given, in your case) brain, instead of trying to twist the facts to fit what they have been told to believe is true.

Anyway, you still haven't answered my question.

Oh you're done, going off on a rant and rave, right?

budaatum:
What exactly was God trying to achieve by tempting Adam with the fruits of a tree it would rather they don't eat?

God does not tempt. You need to rework your question and/or rephrase it

budaatum:
Where are you? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you to eat from? Do you now know that you were naked?

They are rhetorical questions budaatum, besides, you seem to always harp on about this being naked malarkey and not understanding that he had the clothe of righteousness on before but ruined and lost it after eating the fruit. Check this out, I went to work, without my y-fronts on, I felt naked.

frosbel2:
homosexual behaviour can be learnt and unlearnt or not unlearnt, but it does not come naturally !!

Did you learn to be heterosexual?

My favourite is this said by religious people sharing same hat with homophobes:"homosexual behaviour should be unlearned" like as if gays, in the first instance, learned same sex attraction

Goshen360:
Simply put,

Tithe since ages and since Nigerian Christians had been paying, they have not become one of the richest or wealthiest people on the planet earth but rather their so called pastors have being ranked top ten richest in Africa......Pause for a minute and RE-Think about this!

Bottom line, tithe had never made any tithe payer rich or wealthy, it's is hardworking/deligence, God's grace on you and your work, effective use of your brain or senses or ideas to plan/management of your money so your money can work for you.....THESE ARE WHAT RICH AND WEALTHY PEOPLE DO THEY DO NOT PRAY TO BE BLESS THROUGH TITHING NEITHER DO THEY TITHE.

Extra simply put, imposed and/or obligatory ecclesiastical monitised tithe giving hasnt produced a believer ever yet on the first ten of the Forbes' list

HellVictorinho:
Gay rape is real.

It costed Sodom and Gomorrah their city

MexManuel:
One thing about homophobia is that people utilise religion as a weapon to put their hatred in action.

Understanding homosexuality from a religious viewpoint. Read homosexuality in Christianity and Islam on Wikipedia and then go back to the Holybook and read the reference you would find out (with an open mind) all of these hatred are uncalled for.

The Bible in particular never made direct statements against homosexuals and how they would burn in hell. Rather, the Bible condemned Sodom and Gomorrah due to the various atrocities taking place to which same sex might have been involved.

Aaronsrod:
False Christian!

More lies from the pit of Hell!!

Leviticus 20:13
If a man :also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

We are commanded to put them to death. Their blood must be shed!

Aaronsrod, and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free

Put to death any Israelite that is having a sexual contact of a sexual nature as in sexual intercourse with other men, as a form of orgiastic religious, rite as was practised by neighbouring Canaanities in the land the Israelities inherited is what Leviticus 20:13 is saying

The hebrew word "zakar" (i.e. male) used in Leviticus 20:13 above, is usually a collective term used for men or male persons of all ages, so Leviticus 20:13 is against sexual promiscuity carried out in the name of temple or eligious rites believing such acts will garnish favour and blessings from God to perpetrators of the ritualised orgiastic sexual acts.

Romans 1:18-32, especially verses 24, 26 & 27, is a rehash of Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13, where at, Paul, is echoing what happened around when Leviticus 18:22 and Leviticus 20:13 were issued is prevailing again in his time. Incidentally, India is the last bastion of where that practice of temple male prostitution done by the Canaanites in Leviticus times and by the heathen gentiles in Paul's time is still done. There are extra-biblical records and museum artifacts corroborating this temple male prostitution cult, even the Bible when read in its original textual form before its numerous translations confirms the temple female and male prostitution cult and their promiscuities.

God, in effect, is saying, you are not participating and partaking in these acts on My behalf, I do not approve of the act, you can't obtain favour, blessing or anything good from Me for indulging in this acts because I find the sexual intercourses and other sexual activities performed in the name of religious rite or ritual repulsive. It is not fair, not right, it is an abomination. This deeds and all that sacred sexual rites act, is what God, says it is an abomination to Him. He doesnt find it appealing and doesnt find the thought of anyone believing they can curry favour with or through the act agreeable to

It is the purveyors of those services and those making use of it, that the bible said, should be put to death, when/if found. It isnt at all the death of easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour.

God doesnt find anything disgusting in the lives of two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour, if He did, Jesus had a golden opportunity to say so, but He didnt condemn nor condone the act, He just went about the usual Father's business.

This is no sophistry, my scoffer dear friend Ranchhoddas.

Dont get me wrong Ranchhoddas, I too, I am mystified by the idea of two men prefering themselves and not at all, find God's pièce de résistance sexually attracted to, all that rounding curves and bends, the moulds in the front, back and sides and wow, the blissful, attractive and desirable honeypot, doggone it, thats quite a lot of all woman, they're missing out on there but then I quickly "sọji" realised c'est la vie, and nothing strange with them, we live in an imperfect world afterall, so each loving, caring, truthful, honest, committed and faithful consenting adults in whatever life long sexual relationship there are in, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour to its own
cc: tintingz

frosbel2:
Get a grip Pal.

Nobody here was even remotely bothered about what
Homosexuals do, until homophobia accusations starting flying around because of a difference of opinon. Surely people are entitled to their own opinion?

"These behaviours can be unlearnt, outgrown or in many cases can remain permanent."
- by frosbel2: 12:10pm On Jan 02

People like you frosbel2 become a suspect of homophobia when you start spouting rubbish like as in the above inverted commas quote and be advocating to unlearn something that is innately present and therefore wasnt at all in the first place learnt.

SMH. The greater the ignorance, the greater the homophobia.

Ranchhoddas:
Thank you. If you don't get on their perverse bandwagon, you are termed a homophobe.

Very silly.

You keep pussyfooting around when asked direct and pointed questions. You dont give a direct and outright response to the question, so I will, re-ask again here but in fitting manner with your above remark.

Now Ranchhodas, what is perverse in the lives of two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour?

There are a lot of hypocrites reading, contributing to and commenting on this thread.

Most hypocrites can be excused and Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing, but alas the hypocrite believers and Christians ought to know better. Same hypocrite believers and Christians that love their shrimps, their lobsters, their crabs etcetera which essentially are "vultures" of the sea. Oh, the hypocrite believers and Christians love their delicious catfish, catfish that has no scales, catfish that the Bible classed as an abomination but oh no, the hypocrite believers and Christians are more interested in the lives of two ordinary consenting adults, that are in a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour. Even when God specifically said eating catfish, bush meat shall be an abomination unto you (i.e. Leviticus 11:10, Leviticus 11:11, Leviticus 11:12, Leviticus 11:20 etcetera)

Now, I keep asking the frosbel2, Ranchhoddas, Shelumiel what is disgusting in, what is evil in, what is there to be frightened of, what's to be scared of, what is there to be threatened of or intimidated by, in two easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour?

What is the abomination in two ordinary consenting adults, that are in a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour? No one has been able to come forth with what the abomination is, in two ordinary consenting adults, that are in a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour

Michellekabod1:
Halo, how are you doing? Please can i know your take on homosexuality? Just asking..

Read along, you'll get a measure of of my take on easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour

Shelumiel:
Shut up! Idiotic fool. Why not go practice Sodomy and see how dysfunctional your lineage will be

SMH. You really have no idea. You really have no clue what the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was?

MuttleyLaff:
Its you who is possessed and you are infamously known for regularly feeding your demons

Wrong! The Bible never commands such! It's never the christian duty

There is nothing worse about a gay person.
An ignorant and uninformed person is worse than a homophobe
To be ignorant, uninformed person and be a homophobe is the worst

Shelumiel:
You must be foolish. Why not go and practice Sodomy.

You are not wise, clever and smart, if you already dont know that, by your rantings and ravings, with your infamous and uneducative anti-gay posts, by your conduct, especially towards easy going, ordinary consenting adults, minding their own businesses enjoying a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour you are practising sodomy

Ranchhoddas:
I missed Muttleylaff's last response to me on this thread. Why does that always happen?

I would not have seen it if I wasn't reading through the thread.
Too many talking points I don't know where to start.
Phewww...

"Too many talking points I don't know where to start" you say
and I say WTMW, "...welcome to my world"

raphieMontella:
true...

I think people (homophobes)should think about this gay stuff the way they think about masturbation..maybe they'd have a rethink and cool down then

if they should fanatically condemn and try to persecute gays,, they should also persecute "masturbation and masturbates"

since masturbation is also "unnatural" as they term gayism...

we should put laws that requires a jail term for masturbation then...

think about it...

we should probably term masturbation as a "mental disorder" too..

There are a lot of hypocrites reading and commenting on this thread.

People like their shrimps, lobsters, crab etcetera that essentially are vultures of the sea. They love their catfish, that has no scale etcetera that the Bible classes as abomination but oh no they are more interested in two ordinary consenting adults in a caring, faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour.

The same set will dare not refuse to roll out the red carpet for Leo Varadkar if he happens to make a state visit to Naija.

CAPSLOCKED:
I DON'T THINK IT IS THEIR CHOICE. WE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THESE THINGS.
IF I COULD, I WOULD HAVE MADE THAT CHOICE A LONG TIME AGO.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS WORSE THAN A GAY MAN?
THE HOMOPHOBIC SADIST WHO IS LOOKING FOR A WAY TO FRUSTRATE AND KILL HIM.

tintingz:
Lol, you have a point tho. I wonder why I don't have a choice towards my sexual orientation being heterosexual.

You both, do individually have a choice and by God's design have the choice

tintingz:
Lol, your post is like supporting the theory that homosexual are born that way. You didn't see the irony in your post.

The reason many homosexuals feel depressed is because of the behavior of the society towards them. Why do you think HIV patients also feel depressed or people with non-serious traits?

There is even racial depression, couple depression etc.

Religious people are the demons, they make homosexuals people feel they are not human, they make them feel they are some kind of curse to humanity. This is very harsh and cruel.

People who dont have true and pure religion that is faultless, are the demons. They are harsh and inhumane for making others that are attracted to their own gender feel like it's a curse to humanity, that is sheer and outright ignorance

To the frosbel2 of this world, is Leo Eric Varadkar, a curse to the Republic of Ireland and the world at large?
Was Alan Turing a curse to computing?

Shelumiel:
Homosexuals are people possessed by the demons

Its you who is possessed and you are infamously known for regularly feeding your demons

Aaronsrod:
Correct!

We must put every one of them to death as the Bible commands us!

Christians! We must do our duty!

Wrong! The Bible never commands such! It's never the christian duty

CAPSLOCKED:
I DON'T THINK IT IS THEIR CHOICE. WE JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND THESE THINGS.
IF I COULD, I WOULD HAVE MADE THAT CHOICE A LONG TIME AGO.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT IS WORSE THAN A GAY MAN?
THE HOMOPHOBIC SADIST WHO IS LOOKING FOR A WAY TO FRUSTRATE AND KILL HIM.

There is nothing worse about a gay person.
An ignorant and uninformed person is worse than a homophobe
To be ignorant, uninformed person and be a homophobe is the worst

Ubenedictus:
Pope francis rejects homophobia so does the catholic church, but homosexual sexual relations are sinful according to catholicism

You are right he rejects homophobia, that speaks volume doesnt it and he is wise about that but did he or not, make that statement though?

Ranchhoddas:
Animals are the standard now?

I was just preempting you before you start getting to want to suggest that animals dont do gay behaviour and so imply it isnt natural, so I simply was informing you, that by design of God, gay behaviour is observed in nature, that animals as per God's design do gay behaviour

Ranchhoddas:
Oh God.
Animals murder each other all the time, therefore it is natural for humans to murder each other. Murder is observed in nature.

Is this a joke you are making with this remark? If it is, please then stop being facetious

So you are now comparing the love of two consenting adults, in a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour with murder, right?

Ranchhoddas:
You are being overscrupulous. There is no way the meaning was weakened here. "True" already means faultless. "Pure" is already superfluous. You meaning is well taken. Stop being pedantic.

"There is no such thing as "true and pure religion". Only exists in the minds of the believers. I'm sure Jihadists think their religion is "true and pure". If there were any such thing it would be apparent to everyone, or at least the majority."
- by Ranchhoddas(m): today at 1:30am

You have no idea, from the above inverted commas quotation, it shows you dont really understand what pure and true religion that has no fault is. Now please just indulge me here for a sec, tell me what exactly is it that the Jihadists says its true and pure in the Jihadists' religion?

Since you arent keen on faultless, notice out of respecting that, I've deliberately left out faultless. After you reply to the question, I'll tell and show you what true and pure religion that is faultless is. Will show you how it exists in the minds of not just only believers but virtually exists in everybody, even including you disputing its existence. I just hope you'll be big enough and not afraid of loosing face to admit, accept and agree upon being faced with the fact and truth of it

Ranchhoddas:
You have just described the relationship of two best friends.

What is the evil these two best friends that are two consenting adults, in a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour doing? You still prevaricating and avoiding telling exactly what the evil is with two best friends having a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour

Ranchhoddas:
I am something of a prude. I feel disgusted typing this. Don't make do it again.

You are unnecessarily being sensitive over two best friends that are two consenting adults, in a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour. There isnt anything disgusting in their relationship, that doesnt happen outside a gay relationship, besides before humping that "disgusting" burden, have you ever thought that not every gay relationship is necessarily anal penetrative, huh? Even if it's anal for some, there are partners who are not into same sex or gender relationships that do practice and enjoy anal penetration during in/their sexual liasons

Ranchhoddas:
I know there is no such portion.

Well I beg to disgaree, sorry there is

Ranchhoddas:
There are stories of people who have been cured. Go figure.

We can thank the bigots and homophobes of this world for that, aint I right, huh?

Ranchhoddas:
Unnatural:Contrary to the ordinary course of nature; abnormal

Straight from Google.

Thank you but where are your examples? Are your examples written in invisible ink?

Ranchhoddas:
The course of nature is to procreate via sex. Gay people can't.

This is blatant misinformation.
It is deliberate and you know it. SMH

Ranchhoddas:
I know what you want to do. Change "unnatural" to "murder" in your question and you have your answer.

What I want to, what I am doing is educating, standing up against intolerance, against discrimination, against prejudices, against preconceived opinion that is not based on falsehood, lack of understanding and ignorance

"Unnatural" is relative. Attraction to the same sex is unnatural to a heterosexual but for a gay person attraction to the same sex is natural
I am not attracted to the same gender as I am and I dont have anything against two best friends that are two consenting adults, in a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour

Ranchhoddas:
Their wanting to get in the sack is repulsive. They should seek treatment if possible.

There far more serious, unjust and unfair things in society arousing intense distaste or disgust than two ordinary best friends that are two consenting adults, in a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour.

It is not WHO you love, but HOW you love. Go figure

budaatum:
Muttley, if someone else was writing what you're writing, I'm sure you be pointing out the flaws in their reasoning. You really need to try to hear yourself.

So "Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did". The same sin that the angels already committed before Adam was created?

Remember you asked: "Are you suggesting God included sin in Adam's design?"

and I replied with:
"God did not include sin in Adam's design. Adam committed sin when he took possesion of somebody's else property. Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did. Briskly following sin was death with a whole lot bunch of nasties mingled up with delightfuls in close pursuit"

Like I earlier pointed out, sin is missing the mark or standard, means missing God's mark or God's standard. Actually, as in like an archer missing hit the target bull's eye. Adam hadnt ever sin until he took of the fruit. That is how sin entered Adam's world. It is the same sin, using your phraseology, is one of the two situational problems that existed before Adam was, that I earlier said God is on a mission of resolving, ultimately upon mission accomplished sin will be no more. When reference to or mention of sin is done, please keep in mind, the Jewish and/or biblical definition of sin

Ranchhoddas:
A believer in OMNIPOTENT deity? How about using some of that omnipotence to make them not unnatural gay.

By design, gay is observed in nature and I can give you a list of animals that display gay behavior

Ranchhoddas:
There is no such thing as "true and pure religion". Only exists in the minds of the believers. I'm sure Jihadists think their religion is "true and pure". If there were any such thing it would be apparent to everyone, or at least the majority.

I said "true and pure religion that is faultless". You have this habit at times to truncate out words in my remarks, in order to weaken or lessen the original and intended meaning. True and pure religion that is faultless exists, it is alive and kicking

Ranchhoddas:
There is no such Bible portion is there? I'm sure I would have come across it if it existed. Only by sophistry can this be pulled off.

There is but since you are unable to what is the evil in two consenting adults, in a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour then you aint getting that Bible portion not minding homosexuality

Ranchhoddas:
Their behaviour is unnatural as far as I can see.

Of course, I agree with you. It is unnatural to you because you're heterosexual but for them being homosexual, attraction to same sex is natural to them

Define unnatural and give examples. I too will do same
Now are all "unnatural" necessarily bad, evil and/or wrong?

Ranchhoddas:
You can't love a man without wanting to get in the sack with him abi? Disgusting.

I'll like to know why you say its disgusting, what exactly is disgusting in two consenting adults, in a faithful, committed, truthful, honest, loving, lasting that's life-long and loyal same-sex relationship, that has no detriment to another person, no betrayal of another person, or no cheating on another person, and not harmful to an object or neighbour?

budaatum:
Are you suggesting God included sin in Adam's design? To what end? And what vacuum are you referring to? Naked slaves to tend God's garden, perhaps?

You're making your God sound more and more like some slave overlord! And to be honest, all you Christians who worship it sound more like slaves than the gods who would do more than he did that Jesus was trying to make you into. Makes me want to ask if Jesus too hadn't just rebelled against God to come and make you all it's equal, a point Christianity seems to have excluded from its teachings.

What is sin?
Sin is missing the mark or standard, means missing God's mark or God's standard. Actually, as in like an archer missing hit the target bull's eye.

God did not include sin in Adam's design. Adam committed sin when he took possesion of somebody's else property. Sin entered the world, entered the system because of what Adam did. Briskly following sin was death with a whole lot bunch of nasties mingled up with delightfuls in close pursuit

One third of the innumerable angelic hosts decamped from God, commiting sin with Satan. These equated to the two situational problems God set out to resolve. Replace with human beings and sort out sin, once and for all

Adam and Eve before the fall, werent starkers, as you'll like to believe. They were clothed with the righteousness of God. It was after the fall, they realised they've lost it and since then were starkers

budaatum:
Stop dithering muttley. You know I only appreciate your a-game, the one that involves you brain. What other thing needs being resolved and taken care of? What exactly was God trying to achieve?

Sin was, before the existence of Adam. Adam is the product of the saying: "necessity is the mother of invention" Of course when I say Adam, I am by extension, also making reference to human beings necessary and needed to fill up the vacuum created by the renegade third of innumerable angels

budaatum:
Seems God was doing quality control, as in, are these humans any more obedient than some of my previous creations, the angels. But that's me guessing.

You tell, muttley, what exactly was God trying to achieve?

I liked that post for the good attempt response.
In a nutshell, it is quality control but then before that, there is this other thing that needs being resolved plus ultimately once and for all taken care of

budaatum:
Hey what the fuq! How did it's planting of a tree with fruit it knew I'd eat solve "disobedience, lack of self control, disloyality, stealing and/or thieving, covetousness, lust, pilfering, blame-shifting, remorselessness etcetera"?

The end justifies the means budaatum

budaatum:
God must be a rotten lousy creator or couldn't it have created me without all those defects to start with? Says a lot about its omniknowitall!

Adam to start with, was created without all those defects but as the saying goes budaatum:"There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death."

budaatum:
I'm just glad it didn't extend it's creation to cars, or houses. They'd all have been lemons without proper working parts!

The power to create cars or build houses was given to the creation by the Creator.