₦airaland Forum

SMH. Still grinding away at something other than the topic at hand are we?

hardasan:
I'm not a pastor. Even if I am, it's not me that will receive the tithe of anyone reading this. I felt a burden to write and I am grateful I did. Apart from the bliss from the knowledge that I have impacted in not one, not 2, not even 10 lives, I feel like an apostle already
If you have followed up to this point, the summary is : tithing is biblical and it doesn't have to be money.

MrPristine:
Yes tithing is biblical but it's not applicable to Christians.
That said the type of tithing preached and practiced today (monetary tithe from income) is certainly not biblical but derived from twisting scriptures.

The type of tithing preached and practiced today is not the Abraham type of tithing,
is not the Levitical/Mosaic Law of tithing, and certainly isnt the secular type of tithing
but is ecclesiastical tithe,

Ecclesiastical tithe, is where the church taxes members tenth, 1/10, 10% and possibly 0.1 too of their financial income

¹Now about the collection for the Lord’s people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
²On the first day of every week,
each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up,
so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
³Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem.
- 1 Corinthians 16:1-3

Ecclesiastical tithe is an aberration of the principle of church support, recommended and laid down in, at least 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 above

hardasan:
You can only force a horse to the stream but can't force them to drink.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion in the end

This on so many levels, is so very true
and sad part is, the greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism.

hardasan:
The same verse you feel has exposed me has blessed countless more just that everyone isn't bold enough to face the heat here

"Come, follow Me," Jesus said,
"and I will make you fishers of men."
- Matthew 4:19

You would agree that, Matthew 4:19 above about fishes, is a very interesting verse
but do you know that fishes swim against the current flow
and that only a dead fish goes with the flow

Well, as for facing the heat, you know what fire does?
The heat consumes or refines
There isnt much heat plastics can stand, or is there?
That's the reason for the putting out fire firefighting approach employed on this thread

hardasan:
Jesus said : What I say to one, I say to all
So you can't divide his words.

But what I say to you, I say the same to you all: 'Be watching.'
- Mark 13:37

SMH, it is startling how you mentioned this your out-of-context and half-quoted Mark 13:37 verse
but never mind, I've began getting used to your proof texting propensity and misusing bible verse quotations

hardasan:
The same Jesus said:
A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Jesus is never the author of confusion.
Salvation and Christianity came to the world by the Jews first then extended to the Gentiles.

Here we go again
Watch it milady, because you're going off tangent again

hardasan:
That being said, the Bible never mentioned the number of times Abraham tithed.
The tithe of the slaughter of kings was a very spectacular one and deserved a chapter on it.
Ever wondered where Jacob got the inspiration to vow to pay tithes?

ROTBL, you've just had the epiphany of why, how and where from, Jacob got the inspiration to vow to pay tithes, without your mind even registering it

hardasan:
Hebrews 7 is centered around the switch in priesthood and the tithe receiver

Please for everybody's sake - including your own, its time to drop all these sentimental hang on and excuses
Have you ever heard of the Synod of Macon?

petra1:
... thats the point
for a giver, tithe is one of our smallest giving
but the issue is not about the size but the instruction and its spirituality

If as you say "tithe is one of our smallest giving" sic, what are the examples or list of the remaining other smallest giving please?

MightySparrow:
I want to learn, enlighten me on this with scriptures. God hates divorce but it is a common thing even among Christians. Because of hardness of heart, Jesus said, Moses permitted it yet had a legal backing and procedures under the Law. Paul talked about it also.

Tithing is such a thing originated from man as an act of faith. So.....

Hardness of heart, indeed.
The requirement is to first unlearn all you know before wanting to learn and then start all over again.
When you do, then I'll know that you are ready to go on off-piste and be helped with your navigating to where it's safe to go

BERNIMOORE:
POST *A4(1)
POST *A4 on this link has taken care of that: https://www.nairaland.com/4160536/paying-tithe-biblical/7#62595974
but since you need to be schooled on this, i tagged this 'extension as POST *A4(1) for reference

back to your question

part highlighted reads;
these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

1,these ought ye to have done,.....sub ordinate clause that cannot stand alone 'but a function of the main clause
2, and not to leave the other undone...main clause relying heavily on the sub-ordinate clause

submission: mathew 23:23, jesus did not justify tithing, but 'if they must pay tithe, they must also keep the whole law
using the analogy here in the context of Mathew 23:23 to justfy that jesus approves tithing is not only fraudulent but also a deliberate twisting and 'misrepresentation of jesus analogy to suit 'a pre-conceive concept' that is borne out of greed, and also amount to standing logic on its head, now lets evaluate;

for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: t[i]hese ought ye to have done[/i], and not to leave the other undone.

here is a parallel bible verse
Galatians 5:3
Again I testify to every man who gets himself circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole Law.

its the same as ''ye ough to have circumcise'' withought ''neglecting the whole law''
G

The same way if you still tithe you have fallen away from Grace

. So you dont know? okay
let me show you again
HEHREW 7:5 ...Tithe came with commandment to sons of isreal/jacob
5 And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham;
Can you see your ignorance?

lastly, dont dodge these questions because you are scared to death attemting them, i dare you:

(a)Did Abraham receive Tithe'' more than once on biblical record? yes or no OR Show a bible verse proof or just be graciously be Mute!
(b) Are todays pastors following suite by following the Abraham ''one time tithe example'' only recorded? or they are doing outside Oversabi?
(c) The Word: ''priesthood of Melchizedeck, was ever a bibliical concept found in the Bible or '' Not found in the bible'

hardasan:
Its like you have issues understanding and explaining simple english.
Explain a simple sentence, you had to write a mini textbook just to twist the bible

Madam, I think you looked in the mirror when you typed the above

hardasan:
What did Jesus mean by: "these you should have done and not leave the other undone"
It means: "
Do this but don't leave the other undone"
Anybody who has a primary school certificate understands it

This is the problem with people like you and Petra1, who like combining together the Levitical type of tithing and the Abraham type of tithing

What you ought to have known, is that Jesus was saying the Pharisees like any other Jew or Israelite has a DUTY, as in a requirement or obligation to give tithe and not leave matters of justice, mercy, fairness and the love of God undone.

Please tell, that's if you know, what are the reason(s) why it is a duty for the Israelites, particularly the Pharisee to pay tithe?

hardasan:
You're not even good at brainwashing or twisting bible verses.
You make my job very easy by exposing your own hypocrisy

He did a good job in exposing your low understanding actually

hardasan:
a. Did the bible record Abraham's daily activities? so how can I know how how many times he tithed. Thank God you have admitted that he tithed, the number of times he did it throughout his life was not recorded.

b. You do not know how many times Abraham tithed, the bible only recorded one tithe. A word should be enough for the wise so an example should be enough for the sheep but never for the goats

Abraham tithe only once.
The reason why Abraham tithed only once, is because Abraham took up arms, went to fight, on battle just the one time.
Abraham went after another once
It is this one time pursuit that Abraham fought and captured only hence the reason he tithed only once.
Abraham never had the chance to repeat the thrill of taking up arms, chase, fight and capture again, and so the opportunity to tithe never arose again

hardasan:
c. The bible talks about "priesthood after the order of Melchizedech" or "priesthood after the manner of Melchizedech". If that's not enough for tear your bible.

Isn't it the same bible we both and all are reading
because you are behaving as if you are singing from another hymns book

Hebrew Chapter 7, isn't anywhere talking about tithing perse.

Study Hebrews Chapter 7 properly, you will find the mention of tithing in Hebrews Chapter 7 is of the least concern.

MightySparrow:
Well said, Abraham himself was a Syrian. Melchizedek? , no one knows. Except that Bible tells us he was he may not have been part of this world. So the tithing may have started from Mesopotamia and later approved by Judaism as a standard.

5 And thou shalt speak and say before the Lord thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous: Deut. 26: 5
(Tithing issue down the passage)

Sacrifice, prayer, altar building etc did not start or firstly commanded by God. Man wanted to reach God after their being ousted from Eden.

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.
Gen. 4: 26.

Man's quest to reach God led them to these, and most of these things were standardized in the Law of Moses
I would rather say, there was a period of religion development in middle East.
So tithing like sacrice and prayers, are not strange to any one religion, like tithing also, have their beginnings from man

Are you aware God might not have really been keen on tithing?
Are you aware that God warned the Israelities about tithing and so His hand was forced over His decision about it?
Are you aware that God didnt want tithing the manner it panned out,
or that God acted sooner than He had intended concerning His decision over tithing?

Goshen360:
No, Petra1 is confused, jumping from levitical tithe to Abraham just whenever it's okay and convenient as long as he can win an argument

petra1:
Wrong sir. if i win the argument on a lie. is that not a sin?
let truth win. i post my convictions

Your convictions are not on firm ground

Goshen360:
He will make reckless statement like "tithe is tithe".
Ask him is Abraham tithe same as Levitical tithe? He goes....it's the same principles ....lmbo � � �

petra1:
but tithe is tithe offering is offering

Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
- Malachi 3:8

In the light of Malachi 3:8 above showing a sharp distinction between tithes and offerings, where they are separated and individually mentioned
I am sure you know that saying "tithe offering is offering" is another reckless statement you are making

petra1:
i think its insincere just to condemn offerings you now beging to ask about wave, heave and burnt offering.
its not the HOW but the WHAT.
Offering is what we offer. Either its money or material

The Burnt Offering (i.e. elaborated in Leviticus 1)
The Meat Offering (i.e. elaborated in Leviticus 2)
The Peace Offering (i.e. elaborated in Leviticus 3)
The Sin Offering (i.e. elaborated in Leviticus 4)
The Trespass/Guilt Offering (i.e. elaborated in Leviticus 5)

As can be seen above, those are the five separate and distinct offerings of Levitical sacrificial system.

Now, other offerings like the thank offerings, drink offerings, wave offerings and heave offerings including those made for a vow (called votive); are each mentioned in the Mosaic Law.
These lesser offerings usually, if not always, are a subset of the five major offerings (i.e. the presented up above, list of individual offerings)
e.g. the thank offering is a type of peace offering.

The burnt offering has the highest offerings mention in bible and is the highest in being commonly offered too
Abel’s offering in Genesis 4:4 and Noah's offerings when he left the ark in Genesis 8:20 are a kind of burnt offering

It is worth noting and acknowledging that, all these offering are not collection, as in, has nothing to do with money
where money is involved, it is only short-term, as this will be to be as soon as possible exchanged back for edible things which are to be eaten

It is insincere to suggest that offerring was money and animal sacrifices to be completely burnt as a sweet savor to the Lord
or in some cases, when allowed, to be eaten by the person making the offering

I remember you, up above saying: "Christ is our sin offering"
so why cant you accept offering on our part is not required

Goshen360 is absolutely right, you behave like a firefighter/fireman, who will go to any length to douse fire
Just put out the fire, it doesnt matter, if the water is covered with dirt or filth
This is why you are combining as one the not useful or no longer needed offerring with the revolutionary way of collection of money or rendering of self for kingdom sake

petra1:
freewill donations was under the law as well. same principles in different generations. tithes ,offerings,freewill ,alms ,fasting,praying etc. its parallel . you can't take one and condemn the other except there specific scripture that says otherwise

gabe:
Do you agree it is wrong to threaten people with ruin just to scare them into paying tithe?

Petra1 is not following, pratising and adhering to the Levitical type of tithing
He is following, pratising and adhering to the Abraham type of tithing, and this has no scaremongering associated with it

petra1:
The types and shadows of the law were fulfilled in christ. the unclean things represents the gentiles who are now clean.
Christ is our sin offering etc
but tithes has no shadow besides it existed before the law

Oh oh, so why then are you are you putting offering together with tithing.

You can't eat your cake, and have it too Petra1

petra1:
freewill donations was under the law as well. same principles in different generations. tithes, offerings, freewill, alms, fasting, praying etc. its parallel.

you can't take one and condemn the other except there specific scripture that says otherwise

You should be sticking to all the laws, then
Example:
Don't put a razor to your beard
Don't touch your missus when she is doing her monthly period

MightySparrow:
Tithing started with Melchizedek and Abraham later commanded to Israelites and many more things. Like sacrifice started with Cain and Abel etc.
Show from the scriptures when Melchizedek ran an orphanage.

Maybe with first appearance in the bible, tithing did start with Melchizedek and Abraham
However, the truth is, neither started tithing, it was a prevailing practice in the secular world of the Mesopotamia bible day times of that era

petra1:
offerings nko?

Define offering according to the biblical terms understanding.

Define the format of offering as regards the bible historically

petra1:
you see the issue is not about the how but about the what? tithe is Gods. given to the high priest through the ministers

We know in the bible which priest Abraham gave tithe to.
We know in the bible which priests the Israelites gave tithes to.

Now tell, who was the "high priest" Jacob gave his tithe to

You incorrectly seem to think only priests received tithes in the bible.

You also seem to think Abraham started the whole idea of giving tithes, especially the one about giving to another local ruler cum priest worthy of the consideration

akeensbussy:
Popular Nigerian columnist and Lagos-based Pastor, Femi Aribisala, has lambasted ‘Yahoo Pastors’ who fleece their members of their money in the name of Tithing saying that God gave him a house in V.I, Lagos without Tithing.

Why should God do this for a sinner like me who does not pay tithes?

I was standing in the parking lot of the building where I lived in Lagos, talking to Bimbo Dada, now Director of Library, Nigerian Institute of International Affairs, when a man walked through the gate and came to talk to me. He said he worked for an oil-company but had recently been posted out of town.

There was a lunch-hour fellowship meeting every week in his house and he was at a loss what to do about it now he was leaving. So he had been asking God for guidance.

On that particular day, God told him to stop praying. He told him to go out of the house and walk down the road. When he got to our gate, God told him to go in.

Then he said to him: You are to hand over the lunch-hour fellowship to that man talking to the lady over there.” So the man said to me: “The Lord says I should hand over the lunch-hour fellowship meeting in my house to you. After getting the confirmation I required from the Lord, I agreed to take over the fellowship. That was how I inherited a 20-man lunch-hour fellowship in 1994.

Soon, I rented a flat in Victoria Island for the fellowship from Chief Olisa Metuh, then PDP National Publicity Secretary. Two years later, God told me he has given me an entire building. I jumped to the conclusion he had given me Olisa Metuh’s building. As a Christian then schooled naively in the sacrificial system, I concluded God would sacrifice the landlord’s interests for my sake.

I got a prayer group to surround the building and quickly claimed it in the name of Jesus, according to the principles of Joshua: wherever the soles of my feet tread, I take possession. (Joshua 1:3). I don’t know if someone quickly alerted Olisa Metuh he was in danger of losing his building to a determined prayer-warrior. Or perhaps he received a warning about me in a vision or a dream. But shortly after I embarked on these UNGODLY prayer-sessions, the landlord gave me summary quit notice and I had to move out.

Hand of God

When I started looking for alternative accommodation, my estate agents, Diya Fatimilehin, first took me to a big dilapidated building in the same Victoria Island. I did not like it and rejected it out of hand. But later that evening, God told me the building I despised was the one he had given me. Therefore, I went back the next day to take a second look. I discovered my “Promised Land” was formerly occupied by the Palestinian Embassy and, significantly, it has quite a number of fruit trees.

I moved into the building in 1997 and spent a small fortune renovating it, confident it belonged to me. In 1999, at the expiration of my lease, the landlady, Eniola Vanderpuye, offered to sell the building to me through her lawyers, Abiola Morgan & Associates; even though I never asked to buy it. I later discovered she had never even seen it before. It had been willed to her by her late father. But she lives in Chicago with her American husband and has no desire to return to Nigeria.

The realtor she hired to value the building turned out to be Pastor Seinde Adegbonmire of RCCG, a good friend of mine. He asked me how much I could afford. We finally agreed on a price convenient to both the landlady and me. Moreover, I was allowed to pay unconventionally; in instalments over four years. Nevertheless, after four years, I was still unable to complete the payment for the building.

God’s bailout

One day, Mrs. Nike Shonibare, a woman I had never met before came to see me. She was then Head of Commercial and Community Banking at MBC International Bank. (This bank was later merged into First Bank). She told me her bank would like to encourage me to buy a new car. I would deposit one-third of the cost in their bank and they would finance the rest. She told me to go to Coscharis Nigeria Limited to choose any car I liked.

I went there and chose a Land Rover Freelander. But while the deal was still being negotiated by my lawyer, Pastor Tokun Pedro of RCCG, God told me he did not send Mrs. Shonibare so I could buy a car. He told me he sent her so I could secure a loan to pay off my outstanding debt to Eniola Vanderpuye.

Accordingly, I borrowed N10 million from MBCI (now First Bank) to pay off my former landlady. I serviced the debt and brought it down to N5 million. But then I fell on hard times and it grew back to N10 million.

Then God appeared to me in a dream in the person of T.S.B. Aribisala and promised to send me money “from Canada.” Within eight days, I received miraculously a number of unsolicited gifts totalling N11 million from people who were not even members of my fellowship. One friend I had not seen for years, walked into my office and said: “The Lord says I should give this to you.” He placed a cheque on my table face-down. When I turned it over, it was for N6,300,000.

I asked for a meeting with MBCI and insisted they should knock N2.5 million off my debt since I was prepared to clear it outright. They agreed to knock off N2.1 million. Thus, I completed the payment for the building, while still leaving me with a generous balance of nearly N3 million.

In effect, God gave me the building without dispossessing the owner. I did not offer any sacrifices and nobody was sacrificed. My heavenly Father proved to be also the Father of the landlady.

She got what she wanted; the money to supplement her purchase of another house in Chicago. I got what I wanted; a ridiculously low-priced building in Victoria Island, a choice area of Lagos. Today, the value of my building is now over fifteen times the purchase price
Someone who pays tithes needs to explain to me why God did this for a sinner like me who does not pay tithes.
Jesus says: “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and have revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in your sight.” (Matthew 11:25-26).

*********

About the Author:

Femi Aribisala is a scholar and international affairs expert. He is currently an iconoclastic church pastor in Lagos. He is also a syndicated essayist for a handful publications in Nigeria

Let Petra1, Gombs and hardasan explain to him, why God did this for a sinner like him who does not pay tithes
MrPresident1 might want to

Dnaz:
Is the money going to Gods pocket
or into his ministry (ie his own pocket)

Ranchhoddas:
He's paying the tithe to himself abi?

Send me God's account number
I want to pay my own too.

You two guys are cracking me up here
Abeggy I no fi laff ooo

PastorAIO:
What Truthislight and JMAN05 need is a Crisis of Conscience. Just like Raymond Franz.

Who's Raymond Franz? Ray Franz was a Jehovah's witness that rose to the point of becoming a member of the Governing Council.
The Governing council is the handful of men that control the entire lives of all the JWs all over the world.
Then his conscience pricked him and he exposed the organisation.

One thing that he said and can be witness clearly on this thread is that Their man made rules took precedence over the bible.

Of course this problem is not only the JWs.
You can even find it with the pentecostals as has recently been exposed with this Tithing brouhaha
whereby on realising that the bible doesn't support their tithing practice they are so quick to throw the bible in the gutter.

anyway, check out some of what Raymond Franz has to say:
h t tps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeRnVdr6NbQ

PastorAIO:
I'm finding out about the originator of JW. Apparently the man was quite a seasoned liar.
Nooooo Wonder!!! That must be why all this ducking and diving and deceitfulness since the beginning of this thread.
There is some stuff about ancient Greek in there for Truthislight who seems to get quite excited about the matter.
h t tp://www.thewarfareismental.net/b/2009/01/05/bones-to-pick-with-the-jehovahs-witnesses/

MuttleyLaff:
PastorAIO I can't believe you'll go this low to play gutter dirty.

Is it because JMAN05 said, he's sorry, he had no cure for your ailment that you went to go and dig this up, in order to get even with him?

The ailment featured in the video permeates right across every sphere of life; religious, irreligious or indifferent.

Abeggy, comot am, go park elsewhere.
Or else I go blow you whistle ooo

[img]https://s1/images/Whistle.gif[/img]
You had it coming
... and where is the red card, when you need one

So what has all this to do with the thread's title and original post?
Like truthislight earlier and rightly said, this has become incredibly obnoxious and irresponsible.
Have an axe to grind?

OK, then, if you must give vent to your emotions, why not open a new or separate thread, to go retch and vomit all over in?

desreek9:
why are u making it sound like being called a christian is a bad thing,

I am sorry, if it comes across as calling a spade a spade
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig
The reality is, being called Christi-anos or Christian, from day one of the invention of the word, is a bad thing.

By default and custom, the disciples never wrote any letter addressing or calling each other, using the Christi-anos or Christian epithet
if you find any place in the bible, where they addressed themselves or called each other by the Christi-anos or Christian word, bring it to my notice.
Please, in your findings, exclude afterthought bible versions or translations

The word Christi-anos or Christian is not a complimentary epithet, similarly like the infamous word, nigger, isnt.

desreek9:
christ doesnt call us christians, agreed;

Agreeing that Christ didn't or doesnt call us Christi-anos or Christian is a good start
but dont you wonder why God/Christ didn't or doesnt call us Christians?

Dont you ever wonder why, if the christian term is so palatable or that acceptable,
why neither Paul, Peter, any of the other Apostles, disciples, etcetera ever addressed themselves or called each other by the Christi-anos or Christian word?

desreek9:
we are called christians in the world to diffentiate us from other religion that is how it started in antioch

The word Christi-anos or Christian, is legacy nickname for the disciples, invented by the residents of Antioch

Tacitus was a senator and a historian of the Roman Empire, who once wrote:
''Those who were vulgarly known by the name of Christians''

desreek9:
or dont u think the people of Antioch wanted to identify the followers of christ?

Disciples are followers and/or learners but not all followers of Christ are disciples or learners

Just as Jesus in the Bible days, had some many followers, so today and now, we have so many people follow Jesus

People follow Jesus about for some many different and/or diverse reasons
It is no different today, to the Bible days, where not all followers of Jesus, were disciples or learners.

desreek9:
whether it's a form of mockery or jest, it has come to stay cos we dont see it as that.

When did it come to stay?
Who, has it come to stay with?
Can I the three occurrences where Christi-anos or Christian is explicitly mentioned in the Bible and the etymology of the word?
Also did the early believers or Apostles explicitly called themselves Christians?

desreek9:
or dont u think the people of antioch wanted to identify the followers of christ?

Certain truths, can only be clearly seen or understood with the wisdom of age and grace of God
In youth we learn, in age we understand
First go learn the meaning of what the people of Antioch and King Agrippa were implying when they used the Christi-anos or Christian
and then speak.

desreek9:
whether it's a form of mockery or jest, it has come to stay cos we dont see it as that

The disciples were called Christians first in Antioch
By who? By God? No.
By Jesus or by the disciples themselves? No, no, no
Who then by? By the people at Antioch, it was men and women, the people at Antioch famous for coining nicknames who said who they thought the Jesus Christ and the disciples were

That piece of information about its man, would lead you to what's going on here with the use of the word Christi-anos or Christian

Jesus asked the disciples: ''Who do people say I am?''
After the disciples gave all manner of answers, He zeroed in.
''But what about you?'' He asked. ''Who do you say I am?''

Here is me, taking a leaf from Jesus,
and now too, asking, not what do people call you, not what others say you are, not whether they call you a Christian or not
but am asking: desreek9, who do you say, you are?

PastorAIO:
Yes, I said I'd won the argument already when you asked if I brought the video to win.
I'd won, done and dusted.
Now I'm moving on to why your lot are so obtuse and deceit in argument. And I'm slowly finding out why.

You're one delusional so and so.
You won, done and dusted nada!
I have been closely watching and waiting in the wings.
I knew when you had JMAN05 by the balls, and waiting for the moment you squeeze it.

I saw how you pushed him a cheese clipped to trap, to eat, goading him to have nibble and bite so the trap should spring on him

You wounded JMAN05, smelled dripping blood and was waiting to lunge for the kill,
but JMAN05 pulled his feeding hands back

He being wise, didn't take the bait and so denied you the pleasure of going for a supposedly kill, that's why you scraped the bottom of barrel to drag up that unrelated to the thread's title and OP video to get a pathetic cheap point

I was waiting for JMAN05 and truthislight to exhaust all their energies jumping the two swinging ropes a la double dutch style with you before I jump back in to wipe the smirk of your face

Like truthislight rightly said, I too, actually was prepared to let matters lie and rest as they were, until you started mouthing off that you've won etcetera.

hardasan:
@ the first highlighted post.
80% correct. Tithing is a lesser law than righteousness. Tithing should not take the place of righteousness in any way. But then, who says you can't be righteous and still tithe ? You don't have to pick one. As long as they are all biblical, practice them.

Someone at the point of death has to fight for his life first. Only the living can pay tithe. In my own church, I can even call my pastor and tell him that I have spent all my money including my tithe and it's not enough and he'll direct the church committee to look into raising funds for me.
The church should count you a christian whether you tithe or not. Tithing is between you and God. With or without tithes, God will provide for his servants.

Let me use myself as an example.
I paid my first tithe at the age of 13. So from then till now, Have I spent my tithe ? Severally. Some with a reason and some on shopping. But I have cleared all. During that time, nobody came to remind me that I haven't paid my tithe. It was between me and God. I've even lent someone my tithe money and the person hasn't paid me back. I still replaced it. It hasn't stopped me from obeying other parts of the bible. Nor does it make me like the pharisees.

I liked this post for your seemingly composed response and the matured mind sensible explanation in it

You dont have to give a direct answer if you dont want to,
as optionally giving an affirmative Yes anwer or negative No anwer would suffice
Even if you choose to go for "No comment", I'll respect and understand.

So, out of curiosity, do you regularly, as a matter of choice, fellowship with any of the following "big players" at all:
RCCG, KICC, Living Faith Church Worldwide, also known as Winners' Chapel, Daystar Christian Centre, Household of God Church, Christ Embassy,
House on the Rock, The Latter Rain Assembly, The Synagogue Church Of All Nations (SCOAN), David Ibiyeomie's Salvation Ministries,
Mountain of Fire and Miracles, The Redeemed Evangelical Mission, Deeper Christian Life Ministry, CAC, Omega Fire Ministry, CCC, C&S
Poju Oyemade's Covenant Christian Centre, The Lord's Chosen Charismatic Revival Movement, COZA, Joshua Iginla's Champions Royal Assembly,

plainbibletruth:
Hardasan, what are mint, dill and cummin?

hardasan:
mint, dill and cummin are spices which were easily grown in the backyard or in a flower pot.
It's just like growing tomatoes in your backyard garden and paying tithe on the fruits.

So the pharisees tithed till they even gave tithe of their food spices
yet Christ condemned them for basing more on things that they can brag about
or do publicly so people will call them righteous people while they neglect or reject forgiveness and the other laws of righteousness.

Eg a pharisee can't forgive a stranger nor can he let an unholy jew touch him/her talkess of eating with the enholy jew.
They called those who aren't over self righteous publicans and sinners
and feel God hears only their prayers cus they are holy while the others are not.

Different people pick, choose, decide or stick to follow and adhere to a particular choice of tithing
Petra1, claims he follows and adheres to the Abraham type of tithing
and I've noticed from your posted comments and scripture references, that you follow and adhere to the Levitical sort of tithing
hence my reason, here, in mentioning the Levitical tithing

Now, there apparently are some things of better value and more important than performing or carrying out the Levitical tithing duty

Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42 say justice, mercy, fairness, faithfulness (i.e. unfailingly remaining loyal to God) and life full of the love of God
have better value and more important than the Levitical tithing

As matter of fact, in Matthew 23:23 and Luke 11:42, according to Jesus, the Levitical tithing duty comes secondary to any of those virtues
If one wants to be righteous and be doing what is right
then one needs to avoid what is morally wrong, like performing a Levitical tithing duty, at the expense of any of those virtues

Example:
Someone is terribly ill, on the brink of dying at the hospital
and if not given immediate medical attention, will soon kick the bucket
We have a saving grace and only hope,
but also a confusing and difficult problem
The only person who can help out with the urgent hospital charge, has a dilemma
The dilemma is that, the only money he has left to his name is a tithe money
This is really a pseudo dilemma
because except one is a modern day Pharisee, living amongst us, in the 21st century, it is a no-brainer, what is the right thing to do

If a similar situation happens the next time, next after the next, and for a short or indefinitely time repeating itself
then, doing the right thing always WILL take precedence over performing a Levitical tithing duty
Do you accept and agree with the preceded example, by way of its illustration, hardasan?

plainbibletruth:
I know it's difficult for a person who has held on to position to want to change overnight.
I know that many Christians today, who are undernourished in the word of God, would rather hold on to their pastors' position on any issue.
Many refuse to "understand" what they are being pointed to in the word of God.
Once the position they are being shown FROM THE BIBLE is not in line with their held view they refuse to even give it a thorough look.
The Bible clearly say that Christians are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14.
Anyone who INSISTS on putting himself under the Law
or any other system apart from GRACE is entangling himself under a yoke of bondage - see Galatians 2:11-22.

Look at where the real curse lies:
"For all who depend on the Law
[seeking justification and salvation by obedience to the Law and the observance of rituals] are under a curse;
for it is written,
“Cursed (condemned to destruction) is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law , so as to practice them .”
GALATIANS 3:10 AMP
The choice is open for any Christian; whether to choose GRACE or fall back on the LAW

You have your "soft-work" cut out for you.
Good fortune.

Awoo88:
Stop acting smart when you are not!!!
An average black American is proud to wear the niggar tag.
why are you missing things up.
I am not a niggar so why should any body call me that

I'll tell you who really is mixing things up

Very often, people confuse "niggar" with "nigger"
I have all along been asking you about the latter and not the former

Are you a nigger?
Do you address yourself as a nigger?
Do you answer back when being called a nigger?
Why dont you cheerfully appreciate being called a nigger?

Awoo88:
And why should I pick offense if one ignorant person call what I am not
[s]stop being cleaver by half. in fact, stop trying to be smart because you are not[/s]

You dont have to pick offense if one ignorant person called you nigger
I am glad, you know, you arent a nigger and so will shrug it off and just walk away
The point however is, you wont necessarily be pleased that the ignorant person called you nigger
and undoubtedly wont be happy that an ignorant person treats you like a nigger

elantraceey:
Like the op, having an idea of who a Christian is and is not.

Well good start for anyone who wants to raise their game

elantraceey:
If you go through my profile, there's a thread on it

I earlier skimmed through your profile before
but I couldnt see anything noticeable, thats why I posted those questions

elantraceey:
I can't say if it's for the better or worse
because to you it might be worse but to me it's better.

I am just curious to know, thats all
My curiosity isnt about forming any opinion of mine,
You telling if for worse or better will be respected and accepted without prejudice

eph12:
The names God calls you

Here is the list of names believers addressed themselves with & what counts before God:

- "saint(s)" (i.e. Hebrews 13:24, Philemon 1:5, Philippians 4:21-22, Psalm 106:16, 1 Corinthians 16:1, Colossians 1:2)
- "godly" (i.e. Psalm 32:6)
- "brother(s)"/"brethren", (i.e. Acts 15:23, 1 Thessalonians 4:10, Matthew 5:47, Colossians 1:2, Mark 3:35, James 1:9)
- "sister(s)"/"lady" (i.e. Romans 16:1, 2 John 1:1, 2 John 1:13, Colossians 1:2, Mark 3:35)
- "disciples", (i.e. Matthew 10:42, Luke 14:27, Acts 9:10, Acts 21:16)
- "elder(s)" (i.e. 2 John 1:1, 3 John 1:1, 1 Peter 5:1)
- "apostle(s)", (i.e. Acts 11:1, Jude 1:17)
- "servant(s)", (i.e. Ephesians 6:21)
- "believer(s)", (i.e. 2 Thessalonians 3:15, Acts 16:1,15, 1 Corinthians 14:22, Acts 11:1, 1 Peter 2:17 )
- "follower(s)", (i.e. Acts 24:14, Luke 9:23, Mark 8:34, Matthew 16:24)
- "the faithful", (i.e. Colossians 1:2, Matthew 25:21,23, 1 Peter 5:12, Colossians 4:9)
- "the elect(s)", (i.e. 2 John 1:1)
- "the called", (i.e. Romans 8:28)
- "slave(s)/bondservant(s)" progressing to being "son"
(i.e. Ephesians 6:21, Galatians 4:7, 1 Corinthians 7:21-22, James 1:1, Jude 1:1, 2 Peter 1:1, Mark 10:44)
- "a child of God" maturing to being "son of God"
(i.e. Galatians 4:1, Romans 8:17, Galatians 4:7, 1 John 5:1, 1 Corinthians 7:22, 1 John 3:1, John 1:12, Matthew 5:9)
and
- the last but obviously not the least is "hephzibah" (i.e. Isaiah 62:2, Isaiah 62:4)

Awoo88:
If I grew up in the hood in one of those poverty stricken drug riddled district in U S, calling me a niggar and a G "upped" my street cred.
I will be happy. I will be proud. I hope you get it.

I appreciate your wishful thinking, energy and idea
but I havent asked you about being called, with the usual respect and endearment, a "niggar" or "nigga"

You're pretending that you havent got the drift
The questions, I asked, which you unashamedly ignored to respond back to, again are:
Are you a nigger?
Do you address yourself as a nigger?
Do you answer back when being called a nigger?
Why dont you cheerfully appreciate being called a nigger?

onadana:
Who made you a judge?

Oh no, no one made me a judge.
It's just an honest observation, that's all

Truthful posts will stir up a guilty conscious every time!
Don't blame your guilty conscience on me

onadana:
Always looking to criticize.
How are you sure the 1million naira sorry dollars doesn't come with pains of sowing.
Do you know what vow he made or if he is trusting God for something

Now consider, if in the same circumstance with Benny Hinn,
Jesus was to casually turn up, just for a snap visit,
what will Jesus, sitting down and watching in that TV programme, do?

onadana:
Wetin dey worry una sef. The way poor people think..abeg.

Much to learn, you still have, my dear friend

Awoo88:
God calls you his son as soon as your believe, trust and obey.
The world call you Christian because the world judges from what it observes.
Today, Muslims will show great respect to an "S U" because they perceive he/she is true to the teaching.
A true Christian do not call him/herself S. U., the world do. Especially in Nigeria.

I am going to try to ask you again
Are you a nigger?
Do you address yourself as a nigger?
Do you answer back when being called a nigger?
Why dont you cheerfully appreciate being called a nigger?
Now you must be beginning to catch the drift?

eph12:
Enlighten me please

What exactly do you want me to shed light on for you?

Awoo88:
You typed all these with confidence like someone who knows what he is talking about.
Starting error with confidence. Are you lie Muhammed
Because he is the only one I know than come on a public to make erroneous statement with a straight face.
please stop turning fact on it head and if you got these nonsense from somewhere, run away from there.

Thanks for your knee-jerk recaction and rudely brief response
but seriously I don't think you really are properly informed
because that's not what God calls you, it's what the world calls you or says who you are.
Here is the why(s):
Are you a nigger?
Do you address yourself as a nigger?
Do you answer back when being called a nigger?
Have you now begun to catch the drift?

eph12:
What does God call you?

Quite a number of names bar christian

elantraceey:
I used to think like you

Used to think like who in particular please?

elantraceey:
but my thoughts are changing drastically this days.

Give examples of your thoughts which are changing drastically this days?
Are they changing for the better and so becoming better in quality?
Or they changing for the worse and so getting carried slowly in to the dark abyss?

hardasan:
If you say christians aren't under the law of Moses, you are saying that the 10 commandements does not apply to christains anymore.

Matthew 23:23King James Version (KJV)
23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Matthew 23:23International Children’s Bible (ICB)
23 “How terrible for you, teachers of the law and Pharisees!
You are hypocrites! You give to God one-tenth of everything you earn—even your mint, dill, and cummin.
But you don’t obey the really important teachings of the law—being fair, showing mercy, and being loyal.
These are the things you should do, as well as those other things

Matthew 23:23Good News Translation (GNT)
23 “How terrible for you, teachers of the Law and Pharisees!
You hypocrites! You give to God one tenth even of the seasoning herbs, such as mint, dill, and cumin,
but you neglect to obey the really important teachings of the Law, such as justice and mercy and honesty.
These you should practice, without neglecting the others.

Here, the bible says: pay your tithe but don't omit the weightier matters of the law.

plainbibletruth:
Hardasan, what are mint, dill and cummin?

"'A tithe of everything from the land,
whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.
- Leviticus 27:30

Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
- Deuteronomy 14:22

Eat the tenth of your grain, new wine, and olive oil,
and eat the firstborn of your cattle, sheep, and goats
in the presence of the LORD your God in the place he will choose to put his name.
Then you will learn to fear the LORD your God as long as you live.
- Deuteronomy 14:23

If the Levitical, relating to the tribe of Levites, type of tithe, is the one you believe in and follow the practices of,
then the context of Leviticus 27:30, Deuteronomy 14:22 & Deuteronomy 14:23 above are what's expected of you

You tithe all the increase of thy seed that the field bringeth forth etcetera

Seed increase, grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, whatever the field brings forth, that's what you tithe on
and not what the planting pots in the kitchen bring forth

In Matthew 23:23, the bible said and presented the Pharisees as specialists in things of little value or lesser importance
Notice that mint, dill and cummin are potherbs and not even grain from the soil or fruit from the trees

Yup, the Pharisees are well known for their supererogation

Other Israelites paid their tithes on agricultural produce and livestock (i.e. these are which alone tithe was due)
but the Pharisees would give in to unnecessary and misplaced excessiveness
Paying tithes on things, which the law strictly doesnt stipulate and/or nor require, such as milk, cheese, eggs, potherbs etcetera

It is exactly what modern day Pharisees, living amongst us, in the 21st century do.
They omit the better way of a matter
and ignore the revolutionary way of giving, which believers are instructed or urged in 2 Corinthians 9:7 to do

You must each decide in your heart how much to give.
And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure.
(i.e. you shouldn't be sorry that you gave or feel forced to give)
"For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."
- 2 Corinthians 9:7

2 Corinthians 9:7 is a rehashed principle God HAS always endorsed,
as evident in Exodus 25:2, Exodus 35:29, Deuteronomy 15:10 & 1 Chronicles 29:9

petra1:
That's personal opinion, not based on any scripture

It is not a personal opinion
it is a bible opinion, it is based on ample bible scriptures
You are Israel's teacher, a well-known and respected one for that matter, and knowest not these things?

petra1:
Glad to hear that

Its not as bad as you think
Just a classic case of "don't hate the player, hate the game"

petra1:
It's not man that demanded. It's the word.

Hmm, this I see is about to become very interesting
So, which one of the tithes, did the "word" demand?
Is it the Abraham type of tithe, which you've publicly stated, is the one you believe in and follow the practices of, that is demanded by the word?
Or it is the Levitical, relating to the tribe of Levites, type of tithe, that is demanded by the word?
Please dont ignore this question

petra1:
There is no must in fasting and prayer either.
It's an issue of necessity. You do it you get the benefit.
You give to the poor you get the benefit.

You refuse to accept that tithe is a fixed stipulation
There are better ways to give to the poor and get a guaranteed benefit
You wouldnt know or accept this anyway, because you've seen the memo, you've refused to it

petra1:
There was no written document in the days of Abraham.
Probably because he was illiterate
but Moses was well schooled and oracle of God was penned down for reference in his days.
They are still available for us today

It doesnt matter, because the Apostles were mostly illiterates anyway
but let it be known that you've merely laid yourself open to ridicule
with such unashamedly extreme ignorant view that Abraham probably was illiterate

Arent you aware where Abraham was called out from?
Are you aware that a lot of what Moses knew he learned from Abraham?
Bet you're going to ignore those questions, and head scratchingly ask "state your reference"

petra1:
You didn't state your reference

You must each decide in your heart how much to give.
And don't give reluctantly or in response to pressure.
(i.e. you shouldn't be sorry that you gave or feel forced to give)
"For God loves a person who gives cheerfully."
- 2 Corinthians 9:7

Normally the natural man, would have said, I'll state the reference in your dreams
but that wont help matters, so 2 Corinthians 9:7 above is the reference you sought

petra1:
Abraham was a prophet.
Prophets do have revelations of divine principles.
If God birthed the mystery of the tithe through Abraham just as He birthed prayer and worship in the days of Seth.
Why would we question such things especially if God didn't reveal anything comtrary.
God has ministers and prophets in every generation Abrahan, Enoch had insight into Gods mysteries.
I will appreciate you read the BOOK OF ENOCH .

What an idea. Way to go!
So I should read the BOOK OF ENOCH to see Jesus supported tithing in it

What other books would you appreciate I read?
Would Epimenides’ writings do?
What other pseudepigrapha or apocryphal writings, apart from BOOK OF ENOCH, would you recommend I read?