₦airaland Forum

felixomor:
Abraham paid tithe.
Jacob paid tithe
Full stop

What?!
Abraham, I know, paid tithe, and the Israelites, I know, paid tithe;
but who else again, did you say, paid tithe?

petra1:
The question I will rather ask you is.
Why is it tithe that is being attacked

But woe to you Pharisees,
for you pay tithes of mint and rue and every herb;
and you pass by justice and the love of God.
But it behooved you to do these things, and those not to neglect.
- Luke 11:42

I will answer your question
and as a man of honour, that you are, you should have the courtesy and decency to answer my questions too.

Tithe isn't being attacked. Tithe isn't attacked
Now that you've asked I am prepared to tell you what really has been attacked.
I will tell you what really is being attacked

It is the abuse of tithe that's being attacked.
It is the abnormal use of tithe that's being attacked.
It is the misrepresentation of tithe that's being attacked.
It is how, under the guise of tithe, plenty are being used and easily exploited that's being attacked.
It is the pseudo masqueraded as the real McCoy that's being attacked
It is what's and who's responsible for witnessing these Luke 11:42 injustice, unfairness and life devoid of the love of God, that's being attacked

Here are my questions:
1) Which kind of tithing are you practising? (i.e What the name of the tithing you're practising?)
2) Why have you picked, chosen, decided or stuck to follow and adhere to your choice of tithing?
3) Is practising your choice of tithing compulsory and/or mandatory?
4) Is there a choice to opt out practising this choice of tithing?
5) Do you believe there is an alternative to tithing?

Thats all the questions I have for now sir.
Thanks in advance for your honest, truthful, sincere and prompt responses

petra1:
On the condition that he met the high priest

This is an error because Abraham never met any "high priest"

charlsecy:
What goods did he tithe?

petra1:
Kindly enlighten us

C'mon now, don't pass the buck, answer charlsecy's question.

You couldn't have already run out of salvo.
Don't be shy, don't feel intimidated...

What goods did Abraham tithe to the ruler cum priest Melchizedek?

petra1:
Are you saying Jacob didn't fulfill it.

Yes, I am saying Jacob didn't fulfill the tithe part vow he made

petra1:
If you're saying it's not recorded it's different from he didn't do it

I havent said whether it's recorded or not.
What I said and I continually am saying, is, Jacob didnt physically as a person, do or fulfil doing the tithe part vow he made

When Samuel's mother Hannah made a vow, we see in the bible when she fulfilled it
When Jephthah made a vow, we see in the bible when and how he fulfilled it

Now petra1, kindly show in an acceptable & convincible manner where when and how Jacob fulfilled his tithe part vow please

esere826:
Freeze made his point

Freeze did not just made his point
he actually made salient points

esere826:
and welcomed debates. Fair enough
One can choose to either ignore him or actually debate the idea with some biblical "logic"

Anyone with a good conscience and in their right sense or mind wouldnt ignore the salient points Freeze made

Indifference to the salient points Freeze made, is an epitome of evil.

esere826:
What I've found amusing is that a couple of senior christians who I respect have jumped in
and used emotions as a tool in such a "debate"

What I've found amusing is their indifference
and the silence over been guilty of dereliction of duty for failing on all the salient points Freeze raised in that interview

Freeze in that interview was showing them to be the 21st century Pharisees, in the Luke 11:42 scripture

Freeze painted a picture of injustice, unfairness and life devoid of the love of God
but they couldnt see the wood for the tithe trees.

They've been so much fascinated by tithes and/or filty lucre,
they couldnt and cant see their way through the week from Monday to Sunday without it.

Thats the reason for their indifference
and why Freeze's Matthew 25:31-42 scripture exegesis about "The Sheep and the Goats" went over their heads

Did I hear you say, a couple of senior christians who you respect?
Very charming but a lot of others wouldn't trust the couple of senior christians who you respect, as far as they could be thrown

Respect, is gained deservedly, in return for one's good and/or right behaviour
Respect and trust cannot be imposed, are not demanded and never be given on a silver platter...
Respect and trust must be earned and gained

Do we know how respect could have been earned and trust be gained by the couple of senior christians?
It is simply, nothing other than, by outright and forthright honesty.

The couple of senior christians merely had to admit to the ills highlighted and wrongs raised by Freeze,
and own up to the alls that havent been done right.
That's how to learn, change and start earning respect plus gaining trust

Their honesty would have been appreciated, subsequently after that earned respect, gained trust and have loyalty reaffirmed.

I respect those who are totally honest with the truth
and who, no matter how hard and bitter it is, tell the truth, without softening or sugar coating it.

esere826:
For example, one of the big MOG's dismissed and rebuked Freeze for mentioning beer in relation to tithe.
However, this was so off the context in which Freeze spoke.
Many bible translations do have that verse of the bible mentioning strong drink.
(that he doesnt agree with it does not mean that it does not exist)

Another MOG jumped on the bandwagon and was busy defending the 1st MOG based on emotions with barely any biblical logic.

Kind words often falls on barren ground, and thereafter easily gets blown away

esere826:
This is same way the catholic church used to behave in ages past.
Their leadership just said anything (even outside of the bible) and expected everyone to fall into line

Instead of building a firm foundation with the bricks Freeze threw about, those that responded only resorted to building up walls around their heart with the bricks

esere826:
Petra1 tried (I'm not saying he's right or wrong)
I say so because he's a pastor and could have taken the easier route of ignoring or just going straight to Malachi
and threatening its curse for anyone who disagrees with his tithing view -people are scared of this.
He didnt

Of course he didnt.
Petra1 knowing this is a difficult or unpleasant situation
and instead of be like a rabbit or deer caught in a car's headlights,
had no choice, than, be showing courage in the face of adversity

He is trying to bluff it out, survive a difficult situation,
and ride out the storm by maintaining the pretence

Petra1 in another life, will be good serving as a firefighter/fireman,
he sure is good at trying to douse "fire" with "water"

esere826:
Instead he has attempted to trace the genesis of tithing,
and to distinguish different types.
I might not completely agree with him,
but I appreciate that he is enriching the discussion.

People pretend well but no way can pretence go on forever
Beware of false knowledge, it is more dangerous than ignorance

esere826:
As it is written.
..... Study to show yourself approved

and you shall have your epiphany "Aha!" moment

correctguy101:
It was written in the Bible that no one can see God and remain alive.
It was also written that Abraham was a very close friend of God, a good friend.
It's also written in the new testament that Abraham spoke with God face to face just as a friend speaks with another friend.

My people, how else does two friends speak with each other" Face To Face"?

I am not quoting these verses but anyone who claims to have any knowledge of the Bible knows it's all true and documented in the Bible.
But I'll be dropping another quote from the Bible book of Genesis.
This one from the KJV and it shows how Yahweh and two of his angels visited Abraham, ate at his place before the two angels went over to the Sodom and Gomorrah part of the plains of Mamre.
But Yahweh stayed with Abraham and had further discussion with him. Read on and change that thinking.
Abraham saw and spoke with Yahweh.

Genesis 18:1-33
And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;
And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,
And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:
Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:
And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.
And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.
And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.
And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.
And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.
Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.
Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?
And the LORD said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?
Is any thing too hard for the LORD? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.
Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.
And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;
Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.
And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.
And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?
Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?
That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?
And the LORD said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.
And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:
Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.
And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.
And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.
And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.
And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.
And the LORD went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.

Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend.
When Moses returned to the camp, his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, would not depart from the tent.
- Exodus 33:11

You are mistaking Abraham for Moses
Also it is not written anywhere in the new testament, that Abraham spoke with God face to face

Gombs:
How come pastors don't bring wine (alcohol) to people's weddings? Jesus afterall turned water into wine?

But... Bro, that bread and wine is symbolic na. Remember what the Bible said about the man in the book of Hebrews?
Study your Bible

ludot:
Lol...bread and wine is symbolic but tithe is not?

Jesus didn't officiate at the wedding. He attended a wedding reception just as pastors attend wedding receptions today.
And there is nothing wrong with pastors taking alcohol to wedding receptions.

No longer drink water exclusively,
but use a little wine for the sake of your stomach and your frequent ailments.
-1 Timothy 5:23

Gombs:
Uncle, that was Abraham not Jacob. Jacob didn't fight a war...
At least I'm yet to see that in the Bible

Glad to know you agree and accept Jacob didn't fight a war

Gombs:
Question is, How did Jacob know about tithing?

Jacob got to know about tithing from the old warfare rules of engagement custom proxy his father Isaac, his grandfather Abraham and/or from him seeing it around him being practised by others giving 10% of the spoils of war to another local ruler worthy of the consideration

Gombs:
His father must have taught him (God bore testimony that Abraham will command his house to do His will) ..
but you don't see where it's recorded that Isaac gave tithe.
Does that mean Isaac did not tithe?
Did Abraham not teach him that?
where did Jacob get that knowledge?
There was no books of record or diary.
How did Abraham's grandson know about giving a tenth to God?

Isaac didnt tithe, because Isaac didnt go to battle, hence hadnt the need to comply
Jacob didnt tithe, because Jacob didnt go to battle, hence hadnt the need to comply with prevailing warfare rules of engagement

However, God is going to war on Jacob's behalf and fight battles that will give the land to him and his descendants
Now Jacob, knows and knew about Abraham's tithing,
and so instantly recognised the protocol that needs to be followed, as soon as when Genesis 28:13 gets fulfilled

Gombs:
Don't say Jacob didn't tithe all his life.
If you say so, then Jesus didn't bathe all his life.

Why? Because it wasn't recorded?

Then Jesus appeared.
He came from Galilee to the Jordan River to be baptized by John.
- Matthew 3:13

Jesus told him,
"Whoever has already bathed needs only to wash his feet, and he will be completely clean.
And you are clean, though not all of you."
- John 13:10

Some are really trying their hardest to please... Petra1 will be proud

BluntBoy:
This is hilarious.

So much comedy relief

BluntBoy:
OK, I suspected you would deny tithing under compulsion just to justify tithing

If petra1 denies tithing under compulsion then it is a relief to know people can choose to tithe if they are happy and pleased to want to tithe

I am quite sure petra1 DOESNT believe people are cursed, will be cursed or be under a curse, if they decide not to tithe

BluntBoy:
If you tithe the Abraham way, you must tithe properly

Yes, this is simple enough
If petra1 is now claiming to tithe the Abraham way, then he must have tithed properly and in exactly the same manner Abraham did
petra1 must have gone to battle, chased after warlords, launched a counter attack that rescued a foolish relative, his family and recovered all their plundered possessions

petra1, then must have found a living priest-cum-king, whose genelogy is unknown as Abraham did, and gave him tithe.
petra1 must have given the living priest-cum-king, whose genelogy is unknown, a tenth of the spoils of war he went to fight in
and not give a tithe or tenth of any other income or on own wealth just as Abraham never did
Lastly, petra1 must have passed over the remainging 90% of the spoils of war he went to fight in, to a type, equivalent or similar king of Sodom

BluntBoy:
There was nowhere in the Bible where Abraham told his descendents to tithe as he did.
His tithing was voluntary
and as rich he was, there was never any evidence that he ever tithed out of his possessions before and after the Melchizedek episode.

Abraham went to battle only once
and as it is customary, in those times, when battles or wars are won and over,
what belongs by right or custom to the victor is 90% of the war booty
Interestingly, in a manner that cannot be evaded,
the rest, 10% of the spoils of war, as per custom again, mandatorily is to be given to a local ruler.
Abraham found no other local better than Melchizedek to give this tithe, 10% of the spoils of war to

The immediate above, is the circumstances surrounding why, when and how Abraham tithed

Abraham didnt go into battle again, so there was no reason for Abraham to tithe again,
no reason to tithe to Melchizedek or to any other local ruler worthy of the consideration

BluntBoy:
If the Levitical priesthood (which needed tithe) has been replaced by the Melchizedek priesthood, shouldn't tithing not be a voluntary and personal thing, as done by Abraham?

¹³And behold, the LORD stood above it and said,
"I am the LORD, the God of your father Abraham and the God of Isaac;
the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants.
¹⁵“Behold, I am with you and will keep you wherever you go, and will bring you back to this land;
for I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you.”
- Genesis 28:13 & 15

I could type more, write at length and in depth about this
but wont, because it will go beyond the range of the thread and probably turn out long-winded

So here is the abridged version,
here is a brief summary or general gist of Abraham's tithing and Jacob's vowed tithing
Jacob wasnt on to something, he didnt just have a spontaneous idea to tithe
Jacob, knows about giving 10% being associated with men of war who had gone to battle
He is aware and/or conversant with prevailing warfare rules of engagement custom of 90% of spoils of war goes to the victor
and the remaining tenth of the spoils of war, is to be given to a local ruler worthy of the consideration

So after the dream in Genesis 28:13 & 15, Jacob goes like this:
OK God since there will be war and you're going to give back to me and my descendants what has been taken,
I, in line with prevailing principle of war custom,
which mandates giving a tenth of spoils of war, to a local ruler worthy of the consideration
vow to give you, God, the high esteemed Ruler, this 10%, otherwise known as tithe

betterABIAstate:
so the comforter didn't tell Peter, Paul and James to tithe,
its you it told, are you trying to add something to the bible?

God, must have been, all of a sudden, seriously hard up, He dispatched the comforter to reveal to believers to start giving tithe money, 2000 years after the second temple was destroyed.

asuustrike2009:
Did you see where I added anything that's not from the Bible?
Didn't Jesus say in Matthew 23:23
"Matthew 23:23
[23]Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin,
and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith:
these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone

Readers are seeing you dont see that Jesus, was for a reason, saying it is necessary to tithe in that current the Mosaic or Jewish dispensation
Also see you turning closed eyes so as not see and admit that Peter, Paul James etc never taught, suggested or encouraged tithing to Gentiles

asuustrike2009:
Jesus saw tithing as one of the requirements of the law

Spell it out please.
Explain in detail how Jesus saw tithing as one of the requirements of the law

asuustrike2009:
Good response.
Don't mind Lucifer trying to cause confusion by using his agents.
They have failed already

"Kokoro ton je efo, inu efo lowa"
loosely means
"The destructive insect and/or parasitic organisms thats eating the vegetable, lives actually inside or on the vegetable"

Osezua:
Mike Bamiloye has opened up on the controversy trailing the payment of tithes among church members.
Bamiloye was apparently responding to the recent attack on Nigerian pastor by ace AOP, Daddy Freeze, who accused men of God of robbing the poor to get rich in the name of tithing.
Airing his views on the controversy, theAgbara Nla producer said he saw nothing wrong with the practice of tithing.
He said, “I am an Evangelist. I believe strongly in tithes and giving offerings as God commanded in Malachi 3:10.
“I have believed and practice this for more than 35 years. I pay tithes. My Ministry pay tithes.
“On many occasions, we had laid all we had on the Altar before God. On some Occasions we had emptied our accounts and laid all before the Lord in obedience to His specific command and in appreciation of His goodness.
“We believe heavily in tithes and offering, and also in the Biblical Principle of first fruits .
“I have seen marvelous Wonders of God at home and on evangelistic fields as I held on to the Biblical Doctrine of Tithes and Offerings, Sowing and Harvesting. I have been on this for more than 30 years in ministry.
“I pay my tithes and I give my offerings as instructed by god.
but it is never and can never be my business, whatever the tithes and offerings are used for.
“I have given the Tithes and Offerings to God and It is no longer in my care.
It is God’s Business to determine if it is well used or not. Not Mine.
“Are you waiting for me to defend my Belief on Tithes from the Bible?
What Do I need to defend again, when I saw it in the Bible, even if it is One Verse.
“Now, let me show you the Verses of the Word of God that I follow:
“I am not a Theologian, and I do not need many Verses from the Bible to know what to do. I am an Evangelist.
So, do not wait for me to now begin to table before you a an argumentative Bible Study.
“And it is God I have given my tithes, because he said, it is him i have robbed if I don’t pay the tithes into his house.
“Therefore, I have no problem with any pastor or church the lord leads me to pay my tithes.
http://www.gltrends.ng/2017/11/mike-bamiloye-breaks-silence-giving-tithes-god/

SMH.
What a contemptibly poor excuse for not able to defend from the bible his belief on tithing
The ignorances and excuses he made one after the other just left me totally flabbergasted

OtemSapien:
stop saying supposedly, it is a capture of Yahweh from the heavenlies.
The gods who are his brothers saw him many times while he laughs at the stupidity of his worshippers and they captured it.
The 'ha ha ha ha' is just trying to mimick his laughter, so it may not be the exact sound of his laughter.

You have too much time on your hands
An idle brain is the devil's playground, idle hands are the devil's playthings
then the devil uses the brain as a garbage dump

OtemSapien:
LOY 2:11-14
The Laughter of Yahweh: I Am The Deceiver

Is that the supposedly captured laughter of Yahweh? SMH

OtemSapien:
Jeremiah can lie for Africa abeg.
So Jeremiah is claiming that Yahweh didn't send Hosea and the other prophets who yarn trash throughout the Bible?

On the contrary, Jeremiah is claiming that Yahweh didn't send other fake prophets misleading the Israelites

OtemSapien:
I won't take that from you joor.
Let Yahweh speak for himself instead of Jeremiah.
As in, I need a chapter and verse where Yahweh is speaking, not the one where Jeremiah is claiming to be speaking for Yahweh.
Pls post something like Yahweh 12:25 or Yahweh 15:33 and I will believe you.
At least, the DOCTUFOS of truth captured the laughter of Yahweh and I can post it here.

If you dont believe Jeremiahs
why would you believe Yahweh 12:25 or Yahweh 15:33?

Please post it here the supposedly captured laughter of Yahweh

OtemSapien:
The pastor is also embalming the lady to forestall decomposition, abi what do you think?

And it is also Yahweh who instructed the pastor to be doing this, don't you think so?
Remember Yahweh doesn't change, he sent Hosea in the olden days, he is still sending pastors today

"I have not sent these prophets, yet they run around claiming to speak for me.
I have given them no message, yet they go on prophesying.
- Jeremiah 23:21

Then the LORD told me,
"These are the lies that the prophets are telling in my name:
They claim that I sent them, commanded them, and spoke to them.
They dreamed up the visions they tell you.
Their predictions are worthless. They are the products of their own imagination.
- Jeremiah 14:14

How long will this go on?
If they are prophets, they are prophets of deceit, inventing everything they say.
- Jeremiah 23:26

OtemSapien:
The end of what? Hosea did more than this more than 2400 years ago, yet there wasn't any end in sight.
Even fictitious Jesus in the Bible allowed and encouraged Mary to rub her hair and face on his body, yet the world didn't end.

God instructed Hosea to do all that he did
Jesus is God and so is His prerogative to allow and encourage Mary to anoint Him with that expensive oil
besides Mary actually was embalming Him to forestall decomposition of His body for when He will be dead for three nights and three days

PastorAIO:
When I first came to Nairaland I have a plan. It was that I would conduct my conversations without reference to any Bible verses. I would take as my basis and starting point the common experiences that I share with my fellow conversationalist. And then build arguments from there.

My plan did not get very far because after a while at every turn I started getting accused of no using the bible. I tried to remain staunch and I admitted that I didn't and I explained why. But to no avail. it was always, 'which kind of pastor is this that never quotes from the bible'.

It got so bad that I realised that I couldn't get anywhere with a lot of people here unless I started quoting bible. And so I did. I quoted copious amounts of bible verses. I think I left many people quite discombobulated. The point of accusation shifted. I was told that I was quoting out of context. etc etc.

Many people here still use that excuse when you show them clear bible verses in support of an argument.
The problem was not bible verse, or lack of, but rather one's understanding of the bible verse.

I can relate to the entirety

PastorAIO:
I thought this was all quite sad but nothing,
and I mean NOTHING that I've seen so far has prepared me for what I am seeing now.

As the storm has been brewing over this Daddy Freeze's criticism of the unbiblical practice of Tithing in nigeria as found in threads such as this:

h t tp://www.nairaland.com/4169532/daddy-freeze-replies-apostle-suleman

A new phenomenon has occurred.
Now these so called Bible Based Christians are arguing at such incredible lengths without even so much as referring to a single bible verse on the matter of Tithing.
The verses that Daddy Freeze has been firing at them are so deftly dodged it is almost as the verses and their mention are non existent.
Not a single bible verse in response, yet they can keep up the dialogue extending to 13 pages at the time of writing this.

I am flummoxed.

No bi today yansh tay dey for back nau.
Freeze wouldnt had bat an eyelid over the goose, otherwise known as tithe, that lays the golden egg,
if there were no Luke 11:42 21st century flourishing and spreading unchecked situations of injustice, unfairness and life devoid of the love of God

esere826:
Good OP petra1
I might not completely agree with you,
but you did show yourself capable of applying some objective reasoning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWPjBzau_W8
Watch Freeze being not silent
or neutral in today's Luke 11:42 21st century situations of injustice, unfairness and life devoid of the love of God
Freeze doesnt have a dog in the fight, so is more likely to be truly objective and impartial than OP

OrnamentOne:
Nowhere was it mentioned that Jacob gave tithes of all.
He promised to do that, but we can't say categorically when he did it, or how he did it.
Or how do you think he gave his tithes?
Did Melchizedek appear again?
How did Jacob pay his tithes?

petra1:
Don’t capitalize on areas where details weren’t given .
We all know that Jacob fulfill the promise.
God even had to remind him and it’s on that account he left Laban

Haba petra1 c'mon now
SMH. I cant believe my eyes reading the above bolded
You got some "splainin" to do about where and when Jacob tithed (i.e. "Jacob fulfill the promise'')
together with "God even had to remind him"

petra1:
God brought about or introduced revelation of tithing through Abraham.

Secular tithing is a customary practice done way back, by all and sundry
It is no introduced revelation through Abraham
It was not out of the ordinary during Abraham's time

petra1:
And God trusted him to pass his knowledge of God to his generation.
It was from Isaac learned about tithing and passed it to Jacob
Jesus is our priest in the order of Melchizedek

Nothing relating to or contained in the Bible ever showed Isaac tithing
Jacob, didnt tithe as a person, but did as a nation, 400 plus years later

BluntBoy:
Petra1, why are you avoiding my questions? Wasn't it you who said you tithe the Abraham way?
You tithe the Abraham way (without compulsion) but emphasize the curses of Malachi on those who are not tithing. Please, I need explanations.
Are the priesthood of your pastors the equal of that of Melchizedek?
Please, I need answers.

Abi ooo.
Make up your mind

betterABIAstate:
you have not answered my question, did Jesus practise tithing? If yes, show me where he did
If no, why?

petra1:
I will show you if you can show me where Jesus brushed his mouth

Why now?
This thread isnt discussing brushing of mouth or have I been reading a different thread ni?

betterABIAstate:
I don't know, now show me where Jesus tithed?

Water will have to freeze in hell first before you get any sniff of an answer showing you where Jesus tithed

Goshen360:
Good you brought this up....
let the Giants go head to head in this thread....I mean, let's go into the word.

The scripture NEVER called what people donate or contribute or give during worship service "OFFERINGS" in disguise to deceive the people of God.

What OFFERINGS mean in the bible UP TO MALACHI isn't donations in the religious gatherings,
that's common sense because there wasn't church then. What OFFERINGS meant up to malachi 3 are sin offerings, guilt offerings etc...

And to shoot yourself in the leg, Hebrews clearly nullified offerings too just as he nullified tithes.
We can go into the word and debate this....

petra1:
Whatever you give in the church of God is an offering
as long as there’s a God in heaven the principle remain. Even in the world to come

My dear fellow sire, we ought to tell each other the truth and not to get matters twisted
You're absolutely incorrect and 110% wrong to say that, what you give in the "church of God" is an offering
Whatever you give in the church of God,
especially if, of money, is contribution, alms, donation, gift, present, widow's mite, charity etcetera

petra1:
Luke 21:4
4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.

The original word used subsituted with offerings is the greek word "Dora"
and "dora" means gift
That gift mentioned in Luke 21:4, is the free nature kind of the gift.
It is giving something "uncaused"
The giving in Luke 21:4, is/was not coerced, is not given nor obtained by using force or threats of curse
The gift mentioned in Luke 21:4, is the giving that is without premeditation, without pulpit inducement and without exploiting stimulus

petra1:
Acts 24:17
17 Now after many years I came to bring alms to my nation, and offerings

¹³‘Now this is the law of the Nazirite when the days of his separation are fulfilled, he shall bring the offering to the doorway of the tent of meeting.
¹⁴‘He shall present his offering to the LORD: one male lamb a year old without defect for a burnt offering and one ewe-lamb a year old without defect for a sin offering and one ram without defect for a peace offering,
¹⁵and a basket of unleavened cakes of fine flour mixed with oil and unleavened wafers spread with oil, along with their grain offering and their drink offering.
¹⁶‘Then the priest shall present them before the LORD and shall offer his sin offering and his burnt offering.
¹⁷‘He shall also offer the ram for a sacrifice of peace offerings to the LORD, together with the basket of unleavened cakes; the priest shall likewise offer its grain offering and its drink offering.
¹⁸‘The Nazirite shall then shave his dedicated head of hair at the doorway of the tent of meeting, and take the dedicated hair of his head and put it on the fire which is under the sacrifice of peace offerings.
¹⁹‘The priest shall take the ram’s shoulder when it has been boiled, and one unleavened cake out of the basket and one unleavened wafer, and shall put them on the hands of the Nazirite after he has shaved his dedicated hair.
²⁰‘Then the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD. It is holy for the priest, together with the breast offered by waving and the thigh offered by lifting up; and afterward the Nazirite may drink wine.’
- Numbers 6:13-20

Paul stayed in Corinth for some time after that, then said good-bye to the brothers and sisters and went to nearby Cenchrea.
There he shaved his head according to Jewish custom, marking the end of a vow.
Then he set sail for Syria, taking Priscilla and Aquila with him.
- Acts 18:18

You should have remembered that Paul, in Acts 24:17, was narrating an event that earlier happened, way back in Acts 18:18

The bible is explicit in what Paul brought and seems to be expressing a distinction between ALMS and OFFERING
The bible in Acts 24:17, made it clear Paul that brought two things, ALMS (i.e. a donation to the poor)
& OFFERING (i.e. Numbers 6:13-20, Acts 18:18 as in Nazarite vow offering)

It is a folly, incorrect nd totally out of order, to try say that, in Acts 24:17, Paul offerred money for a Nazarite vow
No one in biblical history offers money for fulfiling Nazarite vows.
The offerings are animal sacrifices, as per Numbers 6:13-20 guidance, never money or anything to do with giving money brother

If really whatever you give in the church of God is an offering, why then is Acts 24:17 making a distinction between ALMS and OFFERING?

Tithing is overrated
Tithe or tithing, now a sheeple covetousness nostalgia,
in light of another, a higher and better better principle, became redundant and absolutely unnecessary 2,000 years ago

Gombs:
Exactly my view
I mean, this tithe issue got a huge attention this past month.. And people's response are wonderful.
Some of my friends said tithing should never be talked against some were ready to give, more than 10% - 100%

Tithing is overrated

Gombs:
They will Come now and say it's collections and not offerings because malachi was talking about burnt offering

Was Malachi not talking about burnt offering then?

petra1:
Malachi 3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me.
But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee?
In tithes and offerings.

Why is there so much attack on the tithe

What you perceive as "so much attack on the tithe" actually is "so much enlightening on tithe" on the tithe

petra1:
What about giving offerings?

What about giving offerings?
Deuteronomy 12:6, below is a scripture, you should in conjunction with the tithes and offerrings in Malachi 3:8, know about.

petra1:
God didn't say they robbed him in tithes only but also in the offering

There you will bring your burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes,
your sacred offerings, your offerings to fulfill a vow, your voluntary offerings,
and your offerings of the firstborn animals of your herds and flocks.
- Deuteronomy 12:6

Yes, it's true that God didn't say they robbed him in tithes only but also in the offering
The offerings mentioned in Malachi 3:8 were of the burnt offerings, heave offerings etcetera kind similar to Deuteronomy 12:6 above

petra1:
If the anti tithers whom the enemy is trying to use are only against tithes
but not against giving offering and other tenets mentioned in the law

Your "anti tithers" choice of term is not only misleading
but also is an inaccurate designation
You rather they be silent or neutral in today's Luke 11:42 situations of injustice, unfairness and life devoid of the love of God?

petra1:
It's pure hypocrisy.
Offering was under the law. Prayer was under the law. Alms giving was under the law.
Honoring your father and mother was under the law.
The more he singles out just the tithe the more Christians will tithe

That is his ministry.
To free the sheeple from the imprisoning shackles of religion and tradition
Of course, the more Christians will tithe because of covetousness and greed
I can vouch believers already know the truth and so dont tithe

petra1:
because it's very obvious there's something so special about the tithe

If it is very obvious there's something so special about the tithe,
then is it inconceivable that, there is another, a higher and better principle that obviously has something so more special about it than tithe does?

petra1:
So if you say it's better to give the money as alms to the poor.
That was still under the law.
We give tithe and offerings and alms etc not because the law say so.
They are principles in the kingdom of God ever before the law came

What are the other principles in the kingdom of God ever before the law came that are better than tithe?

Tithe or tithing, a covetousness nostalgia, in light of a better principle, became redundant and absolutely unnecessary 2,000 years ago

odurombi:
Thanks for your submission.

You're posting sarky comments, instead of just doing the needful for all to learn and benefit from

Sarassin:
Well as far as my memory serves me, I might drop it by 0.0001%

You got the jitters
Einstein believed in God albeit not a personal God

Sarassin:
Sure, but if the creator God willed the sun into existence imminently, why wait a thousand years for a microbe?

Suggested macro earlier
so how about, the wait is due to how the algorithm was written?

Sarassin:
Sure, but you said “God saw that world was perfect”, are you rowing back from that position?

No, not rowing back from the "God saw that everything He created or made was good" position
If your memory serves you, you'll recall that unlike each preceeding creation declared good, the good noun or adjective wasnt used for man
I bet you know why?

Sarassin:
If you say so

Yes, affirmatively saying so
and you know I said so because there isnt any valid logic lying underneath nor standing behind the question

Sarassin:
I accept that the depictions of ancient Canaanite pantheon reflected their limited knowledge of Divine nature as much as that of the Hindu Triumvirate and others,
my point was that they are limited in nature, as they must be

Good
but Re: "influence’ and ‘power’ would be inherent attributes of this super-consciousness as would creative and destructive forces""
I was giving information that the "this super-consciousness" is God, otherwise also known as El

Sarassin:
Einstein was agnostic but I accept the above statement.

Are you 99.999% sure Einstein was agnostic?

Sarassin:
If I concede for the sake of argument that God created the universe,
then I am persuaded that similarly God put his feet up, reclined in his hammock,
lit up a cigar and abandoned the universe to random evolutionary process

C'mon now. Abandoned the universe to random evolutionary process? Really?
Macro, possibly, to any extent, crossed your mind?

Sarassin:
In which case it is not a perfect world.

Don't fret over a perfect world, as it would happen in sequence and in due course

Sarassin:
The question then remains, who created the creator?

The question is an invalid one because the super-consciousness (i.e. God) is an uncreated Self Existing creator.

Sarassin:
Clearly there are forces at work in the universe.
What we term ‘influence’ and ‘power’ would be inherent attributes of this super-consciousness as would creative and destructive forces.

So you believe the super-consciousness (i.e. God) possesses capabilities on par with being creative and destructive forces
and accept and associate, El, aka the super-consciousness (i.e. God) with power then?

Sarassin:
But then Einstein did state that “God does not play dice with the universe”
he understood better than most that there was an order to the nature of things.

Einstein understood that the universe and of course, we included, are expressions of God

Sarassin:
I do not necessarily believe in a creator God after-all we observe new worlds being formed everyday

This is like saying:
I do not necessarily believe in a Nairaland creator god, after-all we observe new worlds being created and formed everyday on Nairaland..

The Nairaland creator god, created Nairaland, saw everything was good and then rested
Posters not only create and form new worlds everyday on Nairaland
but posters also god everyday on Nairaland

If its believed a Nairaland creator god, allows, albeit controlled plus within parameters, creation and power or influence (i.e. god) every moment,
then what's the hinder believing in a creator God, considering that without, we wont be observing new worlds being formed everyday?

Sarassin:
but I believe in a consciousness

Does this consciousness not possess influence and power?
So means you believe in a consciousness that possesses influence and power?

Sarassin:
let us call it a super-consciousness that permeates all fathomable existence

Calling it "super-consciousness" is not an exaggeration or hyperbolical expression of praise
so consciousness, qualitatively improved to super-consciousness, is a welcome and good step forward.

I agree with you that no one can fathom what this super-consciousness (i.e. God) has done from beginning to end of time
We can't see the whole scope of the super-consciousness/God's work from beginning to end.

Sarassin:
this is evidenced by mundane phenomena such as the gravitational effects of the moon for instance on our lives.

If so, then why dont you believe in a power or influence,
which essentially and effectively, is what God aka El means (i.e. super-consciousness)
which essentially and effectively, is what god, aka el means

In the Canaanite and Ugaritic pantheons, El, is the special name or title ascribed to a particular super-consciousness (i.e. "the god"
who is distinguished from their other super-consciousnesses (i.e. gods)

There are other peculiar gods (i.e. powers or influences) we can relate to
Strange as it might seem, some people do let their stomach or belly be their god, and so rather serve etctera their own belly.
People let alcohol be their god, and so come under its power and influence
People let fellow others be their god, and come under their manipulations, power and influence
People let drugs be their god, and come under its control, power and influence

You and I know that, Canaanite and Ugaritic pantheons accepts El's role as father of the gods (i.e. powers or influences)
So, isnt it evident, El is the "creator God" behind the creation of mundane phenomena such as the gravitational effects of the moon for instance on our lives?

Sarassin:
Rationalisation being Man’s only inherent genius

The travesty is that most people are prone to self-deceptive rationalisation

Sarassin:
our attempts at understanding our reason to be
and Man’s relationship to the universe in the grand scheme of things, in my view is what gave rise to religion.

"our reason to be" is a no brainer
It doesnt take a genius to understand that man’s lack of relationship with the super-consciousness gave rise to religion
When man's relationship with the super-consciousness took a turn for the worse, religion, waiting in the wings, welcomed man with open arms

What in your context, is religion?
I guess you mean, become and being institutionalized?
There you are then. Seared conscience, is what gave rise to religion

Sarassin:
I believe religion in turn is what has led to the personification of what I refer to as the Divine consciousness….. as God

Material reality is an attribute of The Divine Consciousness; God
just as there are other non material realities which also belong to The Divine Consciousness; God

Anthropomorphism, theophany and/or personification of The Divine Consciousness, started before religion crept in to see the light of day.

Unarguably and without any questioning, The Divine Consciousness is God
and this, The Divine Consciousness, whom you have reverence for, actually is and/or can be a personal providential God

Sarassin:
Could we not change the topic of this thread since Billy and I have both run out of ammo?

https://gifyu.com/images/emptycatridge.gif
Sarassin Versus Billy
Sarassin calling Billy's bluff
knows its an empty shotgun cos Billy's out of ammo

Emmanystone:
Hello bros. Happy sunday.
Didn't know you are following.

My sis, you know yourself, that, when seagulls follow the trawler it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea