₦airaland Forum

KunleOshob:
I am shocked such a topic is coming from joagbaje whose understanding of christian giving ends with giving to the church and religious leaders. It neans there is still yet hope for him.
@joagbaje
God bless you for this topic, this is what true christian giving is primarily about. At least it shows that you are learning something positive on NL

hey! come on young man, shocked; why, oh becos in this case he's not the object of the gesture but rather the subject? hmmmm

eat your tithe, you want die?
When will you people get, tithing is an agreement based on a princinple

Joagbaje:
Malachi 3:9-10
9 Ye[ are] cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me,[ even] this whole nation.

Tell them jo

Pastor AIO:
So who exactly are the followers cos leaders must have followers?

Well it's clear explicitly obvious that the christian is leading while the world is following. Or do have anyother analogy as to who you perhaps consider is leading and who is following?

We sur are called to Lead, l mean how else could one adequately explain the idea of us being the "Light of the world" according to the declarations of Jesus Christ in
Mt 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

and then Jesus Christ setting the pace and blazing the trail said of himself in
1John 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

Now l have spent years meditating and endeavouring understand this scipture getting myself excited at the underscoring implicit conotations that is concealed in between the letter, only obvious to those who dare to acquire understanding. Jesus said as lond as am in the world, l am the light of the world.

To be the light of the world is emblematic of one thats vested with the role of leadership. Light is symbolic of clearity, then Jesus comes and says ", l am the light(clearity) of the world, " That means that He was saying that the world is in obscurity
without Him and though not many agree but none have sufficient evicence to proof otherswise.

Now Jesus Christ is gone from th earth
Mark 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
but because Christ has reproduced Himself in us thus He prophetically called us the light of the world just like Himself, What does that make us LEADERS.

WE CALLED TO BE LEADERS IN EXHIBITING VIRTUES OF LOVE, KINDNESS, HONESTY, ETC.
WE ARE CALLED TO BE ARROR-HEADS IN EVERY SPHERE OF OUR ENDEAVOURS AS CHRISTIANS.

1 Peter2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light

9 But you are a chosen race, a priesthood of kingly lineage, a holy nation, a people belonging specially to God, that you may make known the perfections of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvellous light. (WNT)

9 But you are 'a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, God's own People,' entrusted with the proclamation of the goodness of him who called you out of Darkness into his wonderful Light. (TCNT)

come let us leave this Christ embassy people alone l have been taught not to speak wrongly of God's people. In my church we don't speak wrongly of christ embassy or anyother becos God has not granted us that jurisdiction.
Anyway thats bye-the-way, perhaps if we want to judge this christ embassy people why don't we judge them on a more core christian topic like the 'divine life' aferall according to John 10:10 Jesus clearly revealed the whole essence of His coming.

John 10
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

why don't we bring them to bear on the very premise of what Jesus came to do ', to give life, '
There is no tym for all these frivolities. hmmmmm

[quote author=siyanda.N link=topic=193649.msg6992125#msg6992125 date=1287748266]I hold a Master's degree doing my Doctorate SOON I will have (PhD) next to my name just like your Man of FAULT Chris
I am NOT poor and never will be.
I joined Christ Embassy already made.
I grew up in a wealthy family, I was told money values from small, I was taught to invest money wisely,
I bit myself everyday because that money could have FED a family for 3 months.
Instead I invested it to the Devil himself.
So its not about the money "its about where I sowed it" and also I am concerned about millions who had to borrow the money to "BUY" your so called gopel. And the fact that I was so blind and vulnerable for all this time.

I currently doing Theology past time, and if you wish i could forward you the script of when the Prosperity Gospel came about. Your problem you think you are sooo smart and meantime you are blind and gullible. Chris makes this gospel as if God revealed it to him, EAT THIS he is stealing it from the man who created it.


Go study your bible.[/quote]you see this siyanda isn't acquinted with me on this forum, if you'd being here any longer than now would have known that l owe no allegience to no one not withstanding, this are the kind of staments that reveals your infancy in the doctrines on which true christianity is enshrined. How can you open your mouth and speak wrong of a man of God whether or not you agree or concent to it l don't talk about my own pastor or any other pastor include Pastor Chris just mentioned like that, maybe you do well grow up and brace up there's somuch to be done friend other than this the time prety short and the 'prince of this world' an't sleep. Haven't read this scipture

[i]Roman 14
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand[/i]

@siyanda
least l forget becos am not through with you yet, l personally must flog out this rampaging folly that has gone wide in you. At my own church as l mentioned eralier on paying the said amount was voluntary and subject to the discression of the aspiring graduants and thats what is obtainable even in cercular schools. A want to strongly believe that even in the said church you said you made that pienut of a payment they didn't make it mandatory if didn't want to graduate, you did it (thats if at all anything from you can be trusted hmmmm) out of your own volution so,

[quote author=siyanda.N link=topic=193649.msg6990259#msg6990259 date=1287727408]c
I paid for the "exucutive class" and I also paid for "graduation" total in Rands I paid R4500 in Naira (88598) .
To me that is day time robbery!!!
Since you are a self confessed hopeful millionaire I understand your stand
Now,
Back Off[/quote]Sorry poor deary, them collect your hard earned money se bi hmmm no vex you hear l sypathize with you, YOUR STORY IS A SYMPATHETIC REVELATION OF SINCERE POVERTY.

[quote author=siyanda.N link=topic=193649.msg6990259#msg6990259 date=1287727408]c
I paid for the "exucutive class" and I also paid for "graduation" total in Rands I paid R4500 in Naira (88598) .
To me that is day time robbery!!!
Since you are a self confessed hopeful millionaire I understand your stand
Now,
Back Off[/quote]hey! hey!!
calm your nerves down l said it before you are too hyperactive, too much youthful blood of proactivity almost ever ready to pounce on anything. That is the problem and delima with you people. When you went to school didn't you pay fees or did you forge your tellers all through school?, you even paid 'aside payments' for other involvements and infact for graduation so tell me deary what makes that of a church any different. Please young lady l would suggest you simply quite your obsession for fault finding hmmmm. How come the one you paid in that your school you no make noise about em, becos of the change you parted with in a church we no go hear word se bi. Abeg quite your nonesense

@SirJohn and Siyanda
With regards to paying perhaps a certain amount of money of fee for graduation l don't see anything wrong at all in my chruch while growing and going through the Biginners class so its called and even the baptism class we had to pay a certain fee simply for logistics. Becos for instance certificates needs to be printed. So don't just cook up things just becos you are bent on running down the image of another maybe becos you don't know my church you probably would commented on it.

please you young people should stop joking and make more sense. hmmmm

l think you all should be ashamed of yourselves especially the majority who take delight and derive fun in simply spending time to meaninglessly and fruitlessly aguing. Come and tell us the number of lives you are changing and affecting for Christ, imagine how satan don give una so-called self aclaimed religious socrataces work since 2008, shame no dey catch una

we must be careful not to be quick in running down our fellow brother, news like this will make waves but it remains nothing but a rumour at least for now

aletheia:
A certain widow would have been rejected from the IPPC and looked down on in CE:

As for the argument that the gospel of Jesus needs money to spread; big fat lie to justify greed. As J. Hudson Taylor (Missionary) said: God's work done in God's way will never lack God's resources.

hey young man just take a pause and listen to yourself, perhaps you might want to consider yourself to be sounding like a child oblivious of the obvious day-light reality of todays challenges that the church is confronted with. Even terrorist organizations like the taliban, Hezbolah etc recognize the need to adjust to the ever evolving trend of effectively maximizing all the available tools of technology in ensuring proper ddisemination and spread of their message and course why should the church conviniently occuppy the position of the spectator. What makes you feel justified to think that the church does not need money to effectively spread the message of the gospel infact you sound like you just came from the 'stone age' or perhaps the 'age of innocence'.
Let me ask you so the network on which this plateform is presented and made possible for you to reach us now was a gift the fell from the sky shebi. Young man abeg wake up from your slumber and be true to yourself discard sentiments this is not a discus of being greedy.
Read this and make some sense out of it
Zachariah 1:17, 3John 2

aletheia:
A certain widow would have been rejected from the IPPC and looked down on in CE:

As for the argument that the gospel of Jesus needs money to spread; big fat lie to justify greed. As J. Hudson Taylor (Missionary) said: God's work done in God's way will never lack God's resources.

hey young man just take a pause and listen to yourself, perhaps you might want to consider yourself to be sounding like a child oblivious of the obvious day-light reality of todays challenges that the church is confronted with. Even terrorist organizations like the taliban, Hezbolah etc recognize the need to adjust to the ever evolving trend of effectively maximizing all the available tools of technology in ensuring proper ddisemination and spread of their message and course why should the church conviniently occuppy the position of the spectator. What makes you feel justified to think that the church does not need money to effectively spread the message of the gospel infact you sound like you just came from the 'stone age' or perhaps the 'age of innocence'.
Let me ask you so the network on which this plateform is presented and made possible for you to reach us now was a gift the fell from the sky shebi. Young man abeg wake up from your slumber and be true to yourself discard sentiments this is not a discus of being greedy.
Read this and make some sense out of it
Zachariah 1:17, 3John 2

@siyanda
young lady come down, hmmm come down don't be over zealously hysterical and hyperactive l know exaltly what the falcrum of the discuss seek to bear its weight in context even ever before you signed up to bear your thoughts on this platform. My point is simple rather than seeking faults in an attempt to particularly run down another person. For instance this man Pastor Chris and his church that many are critizing today how come many of your folks in this businesss of critizing 'men of God' whether or not the everybody agrees that they are 'Men of God' that is left for them and God to rekon, how you people don't weigh him on other issues otherthan money, what is so special about money. l have taken particular interest in knowing the core of the man's teachings and l've found out that money is not anyway the core of his sermons, the man seem to be into teachings that borders on the divine life.

let us discuss the guy on the credibility of the core of his messages and teachings

Wait a minute everybody! stop the name-calling and unnecessary tongue-lashing accompanied with insults that are inconsistent with the ideal christians nature. For heaven sake why should good people trade their 'religious' decency and moral restrains for the rags of public ignominy.

Forasmuch as l concent to the fact that joagbaje is indepted to providing more veritably cogent and convincing expainations to give credence to the perhaps particularly discuss of money and giving activities in CE, people like Sir. John ,KunleOshob and more recently siyanda and  the likes of all those who are always almost morethan ready to pounce on any topic on the church with regards to money and giving should realize that though salvation is a free gift of God's love the message of the gospel is morethan ever in the history of the church more expensive especially with the advent of more and more improved means of mass communication like the internet and with all due respect 'the blood of Jesus is not a legal tender', no TV station would accept a God bless you as payment for air.

Somebody might want to ask must we use them, ok! leave them and stay within the walls of your seemingly beautiful churches and gradually watch like a film how the world with the merciless cruelty of its disfunctional system overtake you and your beliefs as ruins of the aftermath its passage.

The church needs money, money and wealth rightfully belongs to the church and the church in a generic sense is illusive it only exist because you, me, him, her, they are part and parcel ot her membership framework thus our properity and wealth is the properity and wealth of the church which ofcourse means that if we don't give and hold back not will be done. Today some of us have several bibles and we can boast of them in translatoins and on several mobile formats but men and women like the 'Full Gospel Business Men Fellowship' gave for the mass printing of copies for distribution aside from those who paid the ultimate price of their lives.

Zachzrial 1:17
Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.
among the synonyms used to explain the Hebrew word traslated 'prosperity' in this passage is the word 'wealth'

one of the most appropriate places to talk about money on earth is the church, if anybody is angry about is let him kiss the sun black in a bright noon day. So if you want to critisize be complete and logical.

l sincerely hope that alot of people will learn from this experience
Romans 2:1 " Therefore thou art inexcusable, "

secretpart:
Christ embassy is a sin infested organization, its not a church, please i beg of you if you are there, don't be hooked with the cell leadership commitment or partnership.Run to a bible believing church before it is too late.God does not know Chris Oyakhilome.He was called but his wrong association with Tb Joshua has ruined him.All u see is a demonstration that is futile. He has no heavenly support.The so called partnership is what he uses.Members are giving forcefully not cheerfully.God only loves a cheerful giver.No need to give details please test his spirit,check his fruits.His members are so sinful comfortably.

2348034868232

this is the worst ever thread that l've ever come acrossed on niaraland coz if there was any glimps of a chance in the terms of considering your malicious advice, it is for the post part baseless and it lacks credence. For God sake this Nairaland we are not kids so get serious young man.

KunleOshob:
@Poster
Becos tithing is not a christian doctrine, it is a fraudulent manipulation of Old testament scripture being used to fleece christians today. The apostles who were mandated to established christianity NEVER preached tithing nor collected tithes. That aside there is no blessing attached to tithes as practised today neither is there any curse. It is obvious that a lot of non tithers are even far better off than so called tithers. If you study the sciptures well and you are trully a christian then you would know that you have no business engaging in such a ignorant a fruitless practise in the name of God. I would have written more there are more than enough writings on this fraudulent doctrine already written on this forum, if the OP has any specific questions to ask i would be more than willing to answer but i suggest he first does some biblical research on tithes starting with Deut 14:22-29

My dear friend l would suggest you kindly package your postulations such that they implicitly express objectivity and not explicitly expressing an affirmation that lacks credibility. How could you say Tithing is not a Christin doctrine, ok perhaps it is a muslim doctrine or a buddist doctrine, question- who is a christian? it is true that tithing is more of an old testament extract but that doesn't make it wrong in practise for christians today. Why becos the problem with you and many others with proximity in similitude of reasoning and understanding of scriptures is that you fail to understand that the old testament is merely a shadow of the new, the revelation of the new is concealed in the old.

The emergence of Tithing in the scripture is not and has never been the brain work of any man no doubting the chances that some fruadulent and deviously opportunistic individuals like in almost every spere and concept of human endeavour has made a public show of gross self gratification at the expense of the conscience of sincere believers. But be that as it may the truth remains tithing is a part of God's properity principle for those who believe in His name and are a part of His kingdom (as a system).

The old testament is not tantamount to an unpraticable abrogated piece of collection of events preceeding the so called new testament. And mind you the new testament  didn't begin from the book of Matthew. Yes Jesus Christ was the fulfilment of the Law and the Prophets which epitomises the entirety of the concept of the old testament, meaning that the law and its deeds where abogated so anybody today who still advocates a pattern of life tailored after the law(of Moses) is in an error of innocence perhaps packaged with ignorance. Tithing began with father Abraham way way back before the law  Gen 14:18-20 "And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth: And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all". And then in the new testament that scenerio was re-ecoed in Hebrews 7:1-2, "1 ¶ For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace"

Now Romans 3:28 " Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law". that means then that in like manner there is "the deed of faith" Father Abraham is accredited as the father of faith and our fahter according to Galasians 3:7(nd)9 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham".

Romans 4:16 "Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all"

For starters, the question is if we are children of Abraham and this is one of those rituals he recorded to have practised then is it wise then to summarise the practise as a deed of faith today as inconsequential perhaps becos of the activities some band of fraudsters. I have spent my whole life studying this subject perhaps before some of you, so be careful you don't want to answer for being responsible in misleading a soul for Christ paid is precious blood to err.

The is the achievements of some men with celebrated twisted minds. It is such persons we are prying that Nigeria becomes uncomfortable for, this action is simply a public show of their private frustrations the only sad thing is that it came at the cost of seven innocent lives who left their homes not expecting in their widest dream the calamity that these twisted minds had cooked in prepartion.

We pray that God will keep on protecting us and those who mean that are in the corridor of power.
Finally we gladly bless the evil efforts of these men with celebrated twisted minds with well furnished frustration and devastating disappointment.
AMEN! AMEN!! AMEN!!!

as much as l like favours, am not in anyway comfortable with 'free things' perhaps for the singular reason that l alway want to place a value on everything so as to appreciate its importance

ochungal:
Lightest I like yu 'talk' . I am amazed that so many Africans embrace Christianity, the tool that was used to divide, conquer, enslave , slaughter and oppress the people of the continent, and along with the very bible that they use to dictate the reasons for racial divide. I notice it's now being used by the converts, or victims, to oppress, judge and degrade their own. Religon is a funny thing when interpreted to suit ones selfish means. I bet any money that nuff of these congregants pastors childrens goes to fine schools and pastors wife is living very well, while the congregants can't find food, or school fee for their children, hey just sayin,

Perhaps you belong to the Rationalist group or maybe the Emperilist because you really are forgetting that Christianity was a great excuse for the walls of our ignorance to be permeated by westhern education. For instance, it is on record that in the history journalism in Nigeria, the first news paper to be published was the 'IWE IROYIN' by the Rt. Rev. Herry Townsend.

For a moment, you might want to take a second thought at some of your comments

@Joegbaje, @aletheia, @Chukwudi44
For those involved with the heated debate of whether or not "Jesus" existed in the beginning, l think this might be of significant interest to you:

it is important to note that in almost of the instances where there's a reference of the naming of the baby "Jesus" we often see the use of the phrase ", and shall be called, ", not anything like ", as His name has been, "

Math 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

1John 5:7
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Then in John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

he didn't say in the biginning was "Jesus" neither did it say ", three that bears records in heaven, the Father, Jesus[/b]and the Spirit, " particular references were made to the Word as independent entity.

In John 1, the bible says that ", and the word became flesh and dwelt amongst us" not ", and [b]Jesus became flesh, " so from this point we could say all that existed from the biginning was the Word

Acts 13
22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.
23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

The bible says that Jesus is ", the root and upsring of David, " in the beginning "as the Word" - the root of david
then in the flesh as Jesus- the upspring of david.

Question:
Yes "The Word", is not a name rahter it refers to a personality, "Jesus-Yhowshua(Hebrew) and Iesous(Grk)" is the name of the "Word becoming flesh", isn't this one and the same person without any discredence to the question of numenclature. Then be that as it may can't we also conclude that Jesus actually existed in the beginning thus negating joeagbaje's claims.
inasmuch as l am taking sides, l want the different sides to consider these scriptures and points and kindly endeavour to explain.
thank you

This is DEVILISH! DEVILISH!! DELVILIS!!!
is this islam or barbarism, wickedness or madness. What kind of rule or law is this, even God Almighty doesn't do this otherwise perhaps the earth would be virtually empty now.

@Joeagbaje
Ephesians 2:1-6
1 And you[ hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ,( by grace ye are saved 6 And hath raised[ us] up together, and made[ us] sit together in heavenly[ places] in Christ Jesus:

inasmuch as am deeply impressed with your several posts on this thread especially the most recent, notwithstanding though l still have some reservations in some seemingly gray areas l would want you to shed light on. For instance, on the scripture you referenced that l quoted above.

vs 6 "and hath raised us up together, and made us SIT together in [b]HEAVENLY[/b]places in Christ Jesus

@Joegbaje
Thank you very much for the link, l would endeavour to read through your post and would not spear a second jetting to that link.