₦airaland Forum

y is obj not on d list?

Kobojunkie:
Actually, now that I know that African families are not worthless to you. Why not start WHINING and saving the lives of the many in Africa and then when you are able to save the lives of families there who are even engage in any war, you can come save these POOR AMERICA families with your WHINES. Stop Trying to SCORE brownie points with this issue.

you need a radical re-assesment of your line of thought, they are very un-intelligent.

yes, you are against the war like others, what have you done in your capacity to either end it or publcise the attrocities of the war?.     the world suffers more for being populated by narrow minded pessimist who see nothing good in little efforts of others.

true, none of us is in a decision making position, but we stand against the war based on personal and human convictions and if our only mode of expressing our disgust is by stating such on nairaland, so be it.

Dis Guy:
With regards to the power situation, I think majority of state governors lack initiative to be honest.
you hear of contracts of $50m+ going for irrigation and foreign development grants running into several
millions coming into the states regularly; at $1m per 1mw, some state can easily raise funds or access grants
to build power generating plants even if it is just 200MW over a period of three to four years
except there is some sort of law restricting the states from generating (their own)
electricity they can come to an agreement with PCHN to at leat 50% distributed within the
states.

considering the present structure of the nigerian fedration, the menopause or direction of the president determines wat happens in most states. wen obj was fightin his curroption and making it the only issue of his presidency, even local government chairmen ho were used to just sharing monhly allocations were shaken. Now that yaradua is sick, almost all the states are sick and all goverment institutiions are.

now that we have agencies to checkmate corruption, cant we either restructure them to prevent curruption. efcc and icpc and others should be involved at the contracting stages and aggressively monitor goverment financial transactions like descent nations do. that way we wont be tie lipped on how much the states spend on power generation but how effectively they do it.

the development of nigeria is a collective responsibility.

Kobojunkie:
What I believe Nigeria still needs is small government cause big government continues to fail us. After one whole year in a world were things happen in microseconds, we are still accepting of snail-paced progress, makes one wonder if we do not deserve what we continue to get, as a people. At the end of the day, we the people are to blame for whatever comes of this.

I think the present setting in the country actually encompasses the big and small governments u advocate. take the issue of power generation, which is on the concurrentlist of the constitution. A well meaning president will agresively advocate each state developing its power source with massive fedral assistance. that way we can generate enough power for industrilization. the same goes for education, the fedral government is not constitutionally empowered to get involved in secondary and primary education. but the question is has yaradua made this one of the major priorities of the relevant levels of government.I still advocate a total overhaul of the system. be it small or big government they have collectively failed us.

Dis Guy:
rule of law is actually in everyone's interestthe thing I don't understand is this monetary control ting,the citizens are in dire need of some basics (road, power, healthcare) that require huge amount of funding but the CBN/minister of finance are always against spending money to control inflationI think we will have to sacrifice one for the other or perhaps find a good balance, I doubt very much if the man on the street knows what to do with single digit inflationeven though it relates directly to price of food and services

Governments all over the world spend more money than the nigerian fedral government. the mayoral budget of london infastructure is 11 billion pounds per annum equivalant to 2.75 trillion naira. yet the british economy does not suffer from inflation nor nihilant infastructure.I m not proffesionally competent in financial matters but I think that It all bugs down to the lack of forsight on the part of our present crop of leaders. what we want is to develop our country against the backdrop of inflation.since over 50 percent of economic transactions in nigeria involves the goverment (largely the fedral government) government should 1-    simply ensure that all monies it generates (income) from the nigerian ecomnomy are not paid in cash but by electronic means, including credit, debit and bank transfers. all monies include earnings from all tiers of government including taxations, levies, court fines, import duties, fees and other payments made to goverment parrasatals for registration or services including Nafdac, Son e.t.c and also encourage co-porate and other private institutions to accept this means of payment.2-  1000, 500 and 200 naira nigerian notes should be sytematically and slowly removed from circulation. making 100, 50 and 20 naira our highest denominations or better still soludos idea of re-domination should be embraced.but all these still bugs down to forsight and zero- tolerance for corruption.

so how will this new name solve imminent problems facing our educational institutions, infastructures, the ever increasing army of the employed, insecurity and a host of others?

are u  chasing shadows?

Chief Gani,

I wish u speedy recovery, good health and a long life full of frabjuos prosperity.

I pray the will of God prevails over ours. May the will of God be done, that whatever happens u will know peace here on earth and in the life beyond.

God bless you sir.
Amen

@ Topic

Breaking up nigeria to tribal denominations will not solve any problem. among these ethnic nationalities breaking up, there is still bound to be grieviances and tension, thus leading to futher breakups.

the niger delta in my opinion does not have a peculiar problem, the same problems and challenges they face are the same the average notherner or westerner faces, ranging from inadequate housing to lack of basic social amenities including water, food security, qualitative and affordable education, bad roads, instituttionalised corruption et all.

and even if we break up will tony anenih n co not be d leader of the niger-delta? will obj n bode george not lead oodua and ibb n his cohorts lead the north.I think in my basic intelligence that the common denominator that distinguishes us all is not our ethnic nationalities but the elite and masses factor. this should also be the focus of our opnionated solutions.

I have said it on this forum before and I will repeat it again. Nigerians will realise by 2011 that yara has been a waste of time and an incessant recycling of debauchive leadership.

He is cool, good yet he lacks d clout n will to take decisive actions.
he is indebted to certain persons whose anti-progressive stance is well known.
he wasnt prepared to be president, he has no blue print, plan or strategy all he has to offer is try and error.

I think being decisive and standing up to be counted when it matters most are the major elements of moving this nation foward, the breakup of nigeria will do us all no good. we are only back to square one.

happy birthday!

may all ur endeavours be a sucess.
amen

4Him:
its good to fantasize, what if the child is a spitting image of the rapist who happens to be your relation?

then thats a different scenario.

if u expect me to abort d child, thats not an option like I said, or to leave my grl cos of dat.
It is good to hope for d best always, but at least consider d worst. in other words I will stick with my grl.

note finally that, that relation of mine will never get 1,000,000 miles near that child.

the child is a gift 4m God, who is to serve his own purpose in life.
is that a reality u cant live with?

@ Topic

To be honest, this is tough.

But abortion is not an option, based on my religious beliefs.

putting the child up for adoption is not an option, cos I cant withstand the thought of other children not expiriencing the joy of childhood with their parents, _{in the name of motherless babies homes and house maids.} not to talk of personally sentencing another child to such horrific expirience.

the child is definitly going to have psycological effects on me n my wifey,
but my love 4 d child might be my little way of paying back God`s unconditional love for me.

the child will grow up and be an integral part of my family. he will be what d yoruba`s call "arole". the heir apparent.
u would never know he is not mine, cos I guess he will look like his mom.

so I believe.

sleekmike:
Even if the tribunal nullifies the presidential election, I believe that Yaradua will still win. He has proved that he has come to lead by example. He is still better than the other contenders to the office. He has sympathy for the poor as we can see from the budget. He is well educated and has zero level corrupt tendencies.
Any day, any time, I prefer him to any other. He is the best we have for now. So let the tribunal leave him alone to concentrate as do the good things he wants to do for this country. CANT YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE,

this is pure hypocriscy and sycophancy which is unfortunately prevalent in the nigeria.

7 months into his presidency, u make it sound like like he is d long awaited "mr right all the wrong"

whats d basis of ur belief that he will win a free and fair election in nigeria? is he even ready to conductone?
if he is y hasnt he sacked iwu? y is iwu`s inec the same re-conducting by-elections to correct the electoral fraud they initially perpetuated?
did yara himself not rig-out masari in the pdp primaries in 2007, in favour of his annointed?

whats d basis of ur assumption that he has come to lead by example? by refusing to spend his security votes?
y didnt he do d same gesture as govenor?

and was shagari not educated too? was he not a former lecturer b4 he bcame president?
we are talking of greed , u re talking about education. education my foot.

how as he proved to be of zero tolerance to corruption. by politicising ambassadoral appointments and practically sacking ribadu?

if the basis for having sympathy for the poor is the budget, then pls grab a copy of abacha`s 1996 budget n stop all this jibberish talk.


u said he is d best 4 now, hw is he better than buhari?

i wonder what a man who had no self desire or ambition to rule d country has in plans for such a country.
he is here to experiment.

i am not for or against him, my fingers re crossed for now, but dont give him a messianic picture, cos he is not.

don jazzie:
Senseless.

I think you should review the guys administration and see that this man has alot to offer tho i'm not a Yardua fan

Truth be told if the guy recontest a free and fair election chances are the guy would still win

without any intention of insulting u, i think u re comments are rather senseless and pointless.

whats there to review in a 7 month old administration?

n wat gives u d impression he is ready to organise a free n fair election? not to talk of winning it.

abeg say something else.

KAG:
First, his arguments were based on false syllogims, made several incredible leaps, and on several occasions, begged the question ((see my first response in this thread).

I have re-read both your reply and his initial post. and I can only deduce what i initially connoted.

he has logically offered an explanation to the concept of the existence and supremacy of God.
what have u offered in return? u only kept beating about. u did not this-approve his claims, nor explained your belief about God`s non-existence. u only insisted God does not exist, yet asking for proof for His existence, when logic has been aapplied.
u create the impression of someone who has grudges against God. and the only way to relieve yourself is by denying His existence. if not, i wonder y u have given no tangible reason, fact or point to butress your claims.
what a waste of time

Second, I don't where you got the idea that being able to create arguments for an allegedly imaginary concept means that the concept is then not imaginary,

who is alleging He is imaginery? and whats the basis for this claim?. until u answer this, I think u are chasing shadows.

imhotep has proved within logical sense that God is real and not nihilant like u claim.
I have emphasised that there are procedures to communicate and expirience God, first hand.
just obey the rules.

but it's wrong. Bertrand Russell's teacup argument is based on a imaginary concept: the teacup orbiting the sun doesn't automatically become real just because the argument can be articulated.

thats russels` teacup argument.
imhoteps claim is based on logic to butress the reality of the existence and supremacy of God as emphasised in the scriptures.
the onus is on u to prove that this is imaginery.

Finally, he didn't explain the concept of God.

now u re contradicting yourself.
sounds like u have a pre-concieved idea of who God is. and thats why u keep using using the words imaginary and evidenced

so if he didnt explain the concept of God as u expected, maybe u can start from there to explain God better to us.
jibberish talk

I and other non-theists made that assessment.

clap for your self

if what u have said so far in this thread is the basis of such conclusion, then permit me to say that your union with this group of fellow theists is a union of purposeless backward thinking aimed at conclusions that are next to nonesense.

That is not to say some theists haven't drawn the same conclusion too.

exactly, arrant nonsense .

so also have there been non-theists who have discovered their folly and subsequently accepted Christ. _{of course they are of no relevance to u}

There's a reason religions plae great emphasis on faith.

and whats that reason?

Furthemore, as at yet, no tangible evidence for the existence of any god hs been provided.

this discussion will be purposeless if u don't define what tangible is?

are the events witnessed in the bible not enough evidences?
is your day to day life, not an evidence?
keep looking for whats not lost

Like I said, the existence of imaginary and mythological creatures can't be disproved.

if the imagination is done by u and for u, then u are right. because no one here is imagining except u.

Religious beliefs that are amenable to communities draw people.

whats your point?

God (with a capital "g" is a subset of gods.

first u don't believe there is a God or gods, now u say He is a subset. i think u re confused

Why do you presume that other gods are inventions of humans, but your god isn't?

of course they are, the baal and hinduism practiced by indians here in london is an evidence. the make objects and symbols and then worship them.

Zeus' fury was used to explain the occurence of lightening; Loki, the incidence of suffering and mishaps; and so on. In todays world, when something is as yet unknown by scientists, theists are forever quick to proclaim their god as the cause - except if it's some kind of infectious disease that isn't related to homosexuals, that is.

so whats your point?

So, let me guess, those that are sick, ask and don't get given, are those without faith?

yes, it is possibly due to their lack of faith and/or inactions on their part
no, there is a purpose for everything.

Um, Jesus wasn't a god. He was a man.

first u claim there is no God and that He is only a figment of man`s imagination, now u know so much about God that u can confidently assert that Jesus is not God.

u re a confused person with no basis for his lack of convictions. u can't even be consistent with your positions on this issues. what a sham

I meant all gods. Why do you agree about those ones?

because to me, they are like the hindus gods.

Wow! I'm really starting to reconsider my opinion on the type of people that are drawn to Christianity based solely on the discussions I've had with you guys in the past few days.

from what u have written so far, i believe u re not a consistent person (opinion wise). so u changing  your opinion on xtianity is no news.

First, that's not a scientific statement, that's merely an utterance.

says who?

scientifically, i deduce that your inability to logically counter imhotep`s claims about God are goat-like in nature. and so it is the baisis of my position that u are a goat.

Second, modern science tries to avoid dogmatism, leaves room for falsifiability, and relies on evidence.

what a contradiction. first u say science has no proof, now u say it relies on evidence.

I insist that urs is a confused mind

The concept of "proof" doesn't follow that school of thought and is more appropriate to mathematics.

says who?

how u can u common-sensically make a claim without providing proof.
and so because u think in your disputable wisdom, that science does no proof, we should take your claim that God does not exist.

this is the height of un-intelligence I have seen on nairaland.

Finally, there's no need to use the scientifc method to show I'm not a goat because the terms you've used have very particular meanngs and implications; and those things adhere to certain modes of behaviour.

u will c above why my claims are founded.

However, using the scientific method can show to a ridiculously high degree that I'm not a goat.

please use that scientific method and lets see.

@KAG

KAG:
Imaginary and mythological creatures can't be disproved.

lets assume imhotep was imagining a God. credit to him, he has explained the concept of God within logical and intellectual concept, without any refrence to the bible.

this disproves ur belief of an imaginary God. your counter arguments are baseless and reflect an idle mind, that is bent on saying things for the pleasure of being lousy.

very unfortunate.

However, the probability for their existence can be shown to be very low, and the necessity for referring to something incapable of being evidenced can also be shown.

who assesed the existence of God and concluded that d possibility is low? u or who?
and whats the basis of ur belief that God is in incapable of being evidenced?

your opinion is a reflection of a beclouded mind, that has chosen to run to run away from realities, neccesities, spiritual awareness and consciousness which readily leads to the attainment of understanding.

the non-existence of God, has been unprovable over and over again cos the service of God has survived all generations(including pre-Christ). I wonder y the world is moving towards Him for directions in the name of several religions including islam and judaism?.

First, that no tangible evidence exists for the existence of gods,

gods dont exist, they are an invention of man. God exists, man is His creation.

for u to seek tangible or intangible evidence for His existetence or otherwise would amount to wishful thinking. I only hope u dont run out of His given grace cos like Jesus said "omo egbe oni se alayi segbe"

that they are always hidden behind the recesses in knowledge,

this is thesis, prove it.

and that for things with so many allocated properties they cannot be potentially tested or falsified in any way, indicates that gods, including the Christian one, are imaginary.

depends on where u read about this properties or qualities from. I can however vouch for the christian God. every inherent quality the scpture says he pocesses are provable.
if u follow the laws that abide with each of them, then u will get d desired reults.

e.g if u re sick or in need, it says ask and u shall be given. u must however ask in faith.
the scripture also defines faith as hoping for the things we want, the evidence of things not seen.
and many more examples.

To quote Anthony Flew, "Just how does what you call an invisible, intangible, eternally elusive [god] differ from an imaginary [god] or even from no [god] at all?"

i deduce 2 things from this stsement.
1) this ideas are not urs. urs is a confused mind, that is continuosly influenced by jejunic facts butressed by your rather unfortunate intellectual inadequacies.
2) if these ideas are urs, then I guess u are one of the attention seekers, proliferating nairaland.
y? cos u should have read from the bible that the Xtian God, came in flesh, he wsa visible, tangible and real (un-imaginery). he ate, drank, walked, slept and shows the way to eternal life.

[1]. Furthermore, since we can deduce the reasons for why humans may have needed to create gods, and strongly infer how the gods could have come into being as a result of human agents, we can further still see why the gods are imaginary

if u refer to sango, ifa, obatala et al, then I agree with u.

Secondly, god by its very definition is of a mythological nature.

says who?

To ask that I prove that a god is mythological is to misunderstand what the terms imply. so, unless you have positive evidence you've been keeping secret, god belongs to mythology [2].

no. its the other way round.
God is real and existent. to expirience Him, follow the rules as stated in the bible.

you have to establish ur belief within logical limits, as to y u think God does not exist.

Finally, like I said on numerous occasions, science doesn't do proofs.

then science is stupid.
so i can say u are as good as a goat without proof.

does that readily mean u re a goat? since me too like science dont do proof.
stupid talk

Alcoholics who practise science may, but science doesn't.

exactly!
that explains y u re a goat.
I am not an alcoholic, so I have no prove.

What can be shown though is the likelihood of something or the other.

this is readily established in the bible, read to attain knowledge.

by the way, were you seriously asking me to use science to prove an unevidenced god is mythological?

no he wasnt.

he only asked u to prove the basis of ur statement that God is unevidenced and mythological

spoilt:
He stole a script riddled with bad grammar? Heck! Poor him!

where u come from sef?
haba, people dey

@ poster.

so far, I think that you have recieved the best advice anyone can ever give. I will only top it up by saying, "talk to God".
settle it with ur maker and all is well.
cheers

now that super tusday has seen obama winning more states but fewer delegates, I sincerely hope that spin doctors citing racial reasons for their basis of disgust for hillary, will shut up if hillary eventually wins.

its obvious that racism as cited by many has not stopped obama from winning in certain states and so should not be an escuse when he eventually LOOSES

I still place my bet on hillary, for the reasons I have primordially stated.

whether the winner is determined by the primaries, or super-delegates,
its still HILLARY ALL D WAY TO D WHITE HOUSE.

u tell us ur opinion first.

atutupoyo:
We learnt about the weighter matters (Matt 23:23), That they are many things that are great concern to God. As Christan's we are to have mercy (Luke 10:25-37), Justice (Luke 11:42)and Faith(Heb11:1,6). We are to seek God's righteousness , his will, and pay our tithe (Heb 7:4-9).
we also talked about things like paying of first fruit- the bible did not command any body to pay the first fruit to the pastor- first fruit is usually spiritual not material, it's honouring God for the things he has done in our life.

wetin concern bible wit the thread topic?
people sha

whao oooooooo!!!!!!!!

I will just worship and tell Him how marvelous He has always been

olabowale:
b.) host of heavens who are called by the bible men because they have flesh.

still true.
 

c.) some children of christian god, the children who came down from heaven as reported in genesis.
d.) the daughters of earth who were mated with by children of god (c), as in man woman mating.

unlike islam where all are slaves. Jesus is the son of God. and by association and dominion the angels are reffered to the sons of God, though paul later clarified that saying they have been made messengers unto us to deliver the gospel of salvation.

e.) metchezdeket who received the first tithe from Abraham, who is also called the high priest of Children of Isreal god.

metchezdeket is Jesus. He was mentioned twice in the bible. on the first occassion He recieved tithe from abraham, and Paul later said in the NT that HE has no begining or end.
metchezdeket is also a High priest and Paul said that we have a high priest who can sympathise with our sufferings cos he has expirienced them. Only Jesus fits this description.

am going to assume here that the christians do not believe in the high priest status, as the old testament people do.

and what is d basis of ur assumption?

The poster commented that all of these 5 or at least some of them are heanenly entities. Here are my Islamic questions; How many entities apart from Angels that are still heavenly entities?

I think the relevant answers are in d koran.

Is there any really? Who are sons of Christian God (the three godhead)? Who were the daughters of the earth? Were they different from the Children of Adam, since Adam was the first of mankind created, and Eve being his wife, the first woman to be created? Are there another set of people apart from what came out of Adam and Eve?

like I earlier said earlier the angels can be called his sons by their dominion. but in our own case, john said in the 1st chapter of his gospel, verse 12 that unto those of us, to whom Jesus is Lord over, to us has been given d power, grace and authourity to be sons and not slaves of God.

It will make sense if these different set of daughters of the earth were not from Adam.

no. it doesnt make sense. all humans have their root from adam, except the koran states otherwise.

But I sure will like to know how are the now?

if u have a sister, wife or daughter, then they qualify to be refered to as the daughters of earth (its just a linguistic thing).
but should they accept Jesus, then they now enjoy the "sonship" privileges john spoke about.

And we know that Adam and Eve's Children were males and females and they married from within the children pool,

true.

but just not from the same pregnancy delivery!

what are u driving at?.

What happened to the product of the relationships of the Christian god sons and daughters of the earth?

its in genesis6.

They all died or is there any part of the world that they occupied and will not die?

I dont get ur point. but it is appointed unto men to die.

What happened to the high priest of the Torah people, Melchezdeket?

wrong. He is the priest of the most high God. who died for u and me.

acknowledge Him, that u might partake in eternal life.

He is still alive or this is another of the Christians spiritual misteries, since there is no Physicality in anything of the Chrisrians? Afterall your worships are in spirit. there is no physicality, yet you erect Churches and go there to worship!

see, I still dont get u. I am only replying because u made an issue out of my post.

God is spirit and those who worship him do so in spirit and in truth. we worship God in Spirit and truth, but inside physical and humanly crafted structures called churches like u have mosques.

From the above one will see that Christian God had children even without  mother(s), greater beings or sons, than the lonely son Jesus, who came through a woman! Hence, I do not know what is the purpose of that great attachments to set him up to the same status as his father, Christian's god the Father?Afterall there were other sons who had came before to the earth,

if u limit God to ur imagination, then u can say He needs a female to pro-create. I only wonder y the koran also acknowledges that Jesus was not created. what a koranic contradiction

however, Jesus was, is and will always be. the angels were the works of His creation. so are u and me.
but unlike u, they are not slaves, they are refered to sons and I am not a slave but a son, a joint heir of eternal life by grace.

It seems to point out that Jesus was not unique at all.

no u are wrong. all power and authourity in heaven, on earth and under the earth have been given unto Him.
and there is no other name under heaven through which we might be saved. definitely not mohammed`s name.
and I wonder y allah will save his slaves? slaves are meant to over-work and perish.

Then when we look at Melchezdeket, we see that he did not have father nor mother, nor beginning and no one from the Christians can tell us that he is dead already. See, even he is alive somewhere still, according to the christians.

He came to the world to die that we all might be redeemed.
and like u rightly said He is alive in heaven, sitting at the right hand side of the Almighty

So what will leave the body that will render it liveless, between the soul and spirit, if these two are not just different names for a single entity? Is soul not spirit that was breadth into the nostril of father Adam, the process whereby he came alive, turning a cured muddy heap to flesh of living and breadthing man?

give me ur take on this issue, then I will gladly respond.
until then I will consider comments unintellectually jejune.

What is faith in Christianity?

please read hebrews11.
if u still dont understand, please open a new thread, I am sure pilgrim will gladly enlighten u better.

If you can do work, but you refuse to do it for the pleasure of God, even though you claim that you have faith in God, is that faith good enough, really?

are u assuming that this is what the Xtian faith implies?

In Islam True faith is to belief in the Oneness of God and at the sametime negates as in disbelief in anything that is against that belief in the One Singly God.

good to know that.
but please stick to islam.

cheers

faketan:
come on, you just quoted me, cleared the content of the and in serted your own statement.
Is this the kind of president that we want? The one that falsifies figures.
I know you will retain IWU when u are to win because he knows how to do the dirty job.

Nigerians be warry.

u know this false cos those were ur words, u just decided to modify them.

how come u had 5 votes and none of them made a comment?
bros abeg fear GOD

faketan ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

the master rigger, Nigerians will resist u like kenyas did.

the evidences are overwelming.

faketan:
Noetic u will not win. I will rig u out.

fellow nigerians, this is fraud.
please defend ur votes.

support a better Nigeria.
Vote NOETIC

I mentioned that to you earlier from Hebrews 10:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, Please explain away the phrase in bold.

and like I also replied u, that d answer is in the same verse, which I have now made bold. they are made perfect because heir names are written in heaven, they are not in heaven.

I don't believe I need to prove that their bodies are still in the grave.

u don't have to, because I have already done that. man is in the grave, dead and buried.

To make things clearer, you need to understand that dead saints were usually taken to Abraham's Bossom before Christ. After Christ's ascension we all go to heaven.

to help me understand what u are refering to please make biblibical refrences to where abrahams bossom is the destination of man after death, without using the lazarus parable. did the apostles preach this (abrahams bossom) after the demise of Christ?
please refer me to the bible verse that states we go staraight to heaven ever since Jesus died?

after reading your contribution to the thread did God create hell fire? (through the link u provided)
I was suprised your position on hades/hell was unchallenged. hades is d place of the dead, righteous or unrighteous awaiting judgement.
it is interpreted in english to mean hell. but hell on its own exists as we all know it.

but wait this your other claim was really funny.

As for Abraham's Bossom, it is no longer populated because Jesus took all the occupants with him to heaven during his ascension.  This is what the Bible refers to in the Book of Ephesians 4:8 as "He led captivity captive."  You will also remember that when Jesus was risen, people saw a number of this old testament saints in and around Jerusalem.  Jesus took them with Him on His triumphant entry into heaven.

please note that the bible verse u referred to was irrelevant to this claim.y? it says he led d captive free "by" giving gifts to men
and u are also claiming that Jesus ascended with other people. I don't c this in the bible.

Dead saints before the ascension of Christ were kept in Abraham's bossom because though they were righteous, their spirits were not yet perfected without the church Hebrews 11:40 - God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. When Christ arose and brought them justification, their spirits were perfected and they were raised with Him to heaven. It is the spirits of these men that the people of Jerusalem saw - Matthew 27;52-53. Hebrews 10:22 -23 that I quoted above tells us that the spirits of these just men that have been perfected are now in heaven.

i think u are intentionally muddling this scriptures to butress your opinion.
in hebrews11:40, the bible does not imply what u are saying. read verse 35, u will understand that death is believed to be the end and then ressurection is awaited.
verse39 says they are still awaiting the promise God made to them (eternal life), even though Christ has risen. verse40 now says that better things have been made for those awaiting this promises, that without them(those awaiting d promise) things should not be perfect. that leads to the venue or essence of eternal life.

to be cont`d

@tayo-d
I m sorry I never replied sooner.

[quote author=Tayo-D link=topic=60507.msg1866061#msg1866061 date=1200682704]One thing immediately jumps at us from the passage. The human body is lifeless without "the breadth of life".[/quote]true.

In actual fact, the body is dead without the spirit. See James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead .

what u have failed to do is clearly define in your own words what the spirit is.
because to be honest with u, I have defined the spirit and so also have others, and in applying this same scriptures with that of apostle paul, it is obvious that they refered to certain attributes of man that clearly makes him whole and not a seprate entity refered to as spirit.

So does that equate the breadth of life to the spirit?

no. the spirit of man refers to certain attributes man pocesses.
spirit (pneuma) the human mind, instincts and personal convictions. our ability to analyse,reason and comprehend
but u must observe, like u noted above that the breadth of live was one of the biblibically explicitly stated ingridients that God used to make man a living being. the spirit was not mentioned in this context.

1.  The breadth of life is the same thing as the spirit.

if thats the case, the bible never said the breadth of life has a form or kind. it was just the breadth of GOD. so we agree that the spirit is a part of man that is formless and bodiless. so this way it cannot outlive man to ascend to heaven.

2.  The spirit is a subset of the breadth of life.

how?

Now with reference to the phrase that man became "a living soul", I think the best way to understand the phrase is how its used in comparison in the NT. 1 Cor 15:45 - And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. A difference is made between the first and the last Adam here as to how their lives are lived through the body. The first Adam lived his life mainly through his soul while the last Adam lived His life mainly through His spirit. Both Adams have a body, a soul and a spirit, but the most dominant aspect of their being is different in each case.

i don't understand u. whats the diffence according to u between the soul and spirit the first and last Adam lived by?
did the last Adam not also expirience pain, suffering, hunger, afflictions? was He not humiliated? was He not subject to the limitations and rules of nature? did He not cry and die like the first adam? are these things not physical afflictions limited to man?
so how did He live His life tru d spirit?

The question now remains: Which is the real persona?

the real personae is man.

I think this can be anwered very easily. First it is not the body since the man can exist outside of the body.

then who is man? when was his body created? and when was man created?

see please stop using primordial believes to satisfy spiritual curiosities. the bible says man was created lifeless until he pocessed the braedth of life.
the bible didnt say a body was created, followed by a spirit or soul.
attempting to divide a man into these three concepts, when the creation and the purpose of man`s existence does not imply this is unfortunate.

(Please see the story of Lazarus and so many others in the NT that talks about those who are in the grave but alive either in Heaven, Hell or Abraham's bossom,

i insist that, that was a parable and no where else was it mentioned that certain dead go abrahams bossom.
to believe u, please reconcile the meaning oh hades and abrahams bossom.

and in the case of Moses and Elijah, on the Mt of transfiguration). The body is only necessary for him to rule and reign on the earth.

I have told u my opinion on this and will still go back to it on d other thread.
but to understand my view, please read the four gospels account of the call of the disciples by Jesus and explain d difference.

I believe the real man is the spirit despite the fact that he possesses a soul.

i don't see any biblibical inscription that butresses your belief.

My conslusion is partly based on the fact that though God has a soul, He is by essence a spirit. Matthew 12:18 - Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. This scripture clearly shows that God possesses a soul though He is spirit - John 4: 24 - God is a Spirit: If man therefore possess a soul and a spirit like God, and he is made in God's likeness, it can be safely concluded that he must be spirit and possess a soul like God. Otherwise what is the likeness all about?

based on my definition of spirit and soul i agree with u.
u know y?
just like I corrected ricadelide in my last post, Heavenly beings can take up human forms if they want to.
but d main reason y i really agree with u is because, angels don't accept worship, but we have seen instances where they accepted worship, like the visit to abraham and joshua.
so if these beings accept worship, they definitely cannot b angels who then visited these people?
your guess is as good as mine.

sorry I am delaying my responses
cheers

@ricadelide
this is my detailed response to the definition of spirit u mailed to me.

it has taken me a while to reply because 1) I have been lazy to type and 2) i expected u to post the contents of the mail u sent me, so that others can easily make refrences.

I do believe that man is unique among the three major creations of God (angels, man, and animals) in the sense that he stands at sort of a 'gap' between them;

true.

Like the angels, he has/is a spirit being which by definition is able to communicate with God, able to determine right from wrong and able to "know" absolute truths ie able to acess divine revelation This spirit being also helps him to understand and relate to the spiritual dimension/realm.

true, it concurs with my definition.

Like the breathing animals however, he pocesses a physical body by which he is able to relate to and dwell in the physical/natural world.

true.

And like both these groups, he pocesses a "soul" which is his seat of self-awareness and personality.

uhmn.

The difference is angels don't have physical bodies,

Abraham was visited several times by the hosts of heaven. the bible calls his visitors men. implying that they had flesh.
some children of God in genesis came down from heaven to mate with the daughters of earth.
metecheidek who recieved the first tithe ever, from abraham, is called The High Priest of God.
these examples are heavenly beings who have used the flesh/physical bodies to reach man.

and animals don't have spirits

from what u have earlier defined to be[b] spirit[/b], that
1) ability to communicate with God
2) ability to know right from wrong
3) helps to understand spiritual dimensions
then I agree that they have no spirit.

I believe the spirit has three main functions: communion, intuition and conscience.

this explains my definition of spirit in man.

These attributes of man are provided to him by his pocessing a spirit.
The soul, on the other hand, which is what most people are familiar with, comprises his mind, his will and emotions. I believe animals also pocess these attributes.

anyone can call man anything. political scientist call man a political animal. science calls man an animal and groups it as a mammal. certain indians in a particular cult see themselves as equals to God. and they see the rest of us as their creations.
in lieu of this, I think u can also call man anything u like, but for the sake of clarity and for proper information I think u need to understand that man is man. and the purpose of his creation, destination and his destiny clearly explains d nature of man.

so also can u say man is made up of several components. but considering your definitions of this components, I would say man has no different components, explicitly butressed scripturally. for instance
lets examine this scripture, john4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him, must worship him in spirit and in truth.
this scripture dennotes that
1) God is spirit
2)He is worshipped in spirit.
3) He is worshipped in truth.
this scripture simply implies that we worship God with our whole concentration or with the attributes u clearly defined as spirit. and not as other post suggests that we use our spiritual being (which ascends to heaven) to worship God.

I believe there is a considerable difference in the makeup of pre-fall Adam, fallen man and regenerated man. This difference in makeup is a matter of the 'heirachy' so to speak with which he expresses the different parts of his makeup. Quite succintly, natural fallen man is predominantly 'soulish' or soul-driven (an extreme is people who are actually body-driven) while a regenerated believer is predominantly spirit-controlled via the help of the Holy Spirit of God who strengthens him in his spirit or inner man.

you are confusing matters here, please explain the hierachy.

but honestly u have been so explicit, that I can't ask for more. but my question is that if according to your definitions the spirit is 1) ability to communicate with God
2) ability to know right from wrong
3) helps to understand spiritual dimensions
how then can u say these attributes ascend to heaven after death? because maybe there is something you're seeing that I am not. how do these attributes pocess a "spiritual" form to ascend into heaven?

I do not believe that spirit can be interpreted to mean "breath of life" and I have a lot of evidence for that

see like I also said on this thread, the breadth of life is the major addition to the formation of man that made him a living soul. so if anyone thinks there is a distinct nature of man called spirit, then thats the closest the scripture states.

as per the evidences, please produce them.

That's just a brief summary of my views on the subject. Look forward to corresponding with you

so do I.
cheers

darfur:
there's no igbo expletive to dodge. ojukwu was a lt.col in the naija army and nothing more than that. he is officially a retired lt.col as well as the leader of the defunct republic of biafra.

and was he smart? no. he was power drunk. and he doesnt deny it. here was a guy who knew that biafra had no weapons and yet he challenged a well loaded naigerian army with british, american, russian and even egyptian backing. isn't it foolhardy to engage in such a fight? wasting the lives of a generation of igbo youth. and why? why? why did he run away at the end of the war? why not stay back and face the music? he ran like a coward. he wants to live, yet he sent a generation of young men to their grave knowing fullywell that they will all die.

if he was smart, he could have used the moral advantage the ibos had in I967 to attract world opinion and get the fed govt to some strong commitments. it wont be good enough but it will definitely be better than the millions who died during the war.

i don't admire him at all. I, Darfur Akpukanwa O, I'm far too smart to hero-worship anyone just because others do. i consider a lot before i pick my heros.

well said.

i for say make i talk, but i no fit shout, cos u don talk am finish.
cheers

@ topic.

u need to define terrorism and also need to read nelson mandela`s biography.

mandela is not a terrorist, by every definition.

they applied arms struggle to sabotage (electric power supply) the apartheid regime. but if u read his biography, which he wrote over a period of 30years. u will understand his mind, thinking, reasoning and intellectual abilities. most appealing of all was his methods (intellectual panacea) of attaining peace, which was continuos dialogue.
and that only succeded because God destined it so.

mandela aint a terrorist.

adamugo:
@Noetic,abi wetin you call yourself,

yes thats me.

we've seen people like you in the past,sugar coated tongues,

adumago, please go get one, if u like it so much

Nigerians are tired of talk much and do less politicians,

yes u are right. thats y they dont want u, they want Noetic for president.

what we need nowadays is action, talk less and do much

for now I can only talk, when I get to office I will perform.

that why are don't want to be lousy about my manifesto,

please be, nigerians know jokers, and they the person they want.
cant u c d handwriting on the wall,
nigerians want NOETIC

we are tired of mere cacophonic politicians

yes. thats y u must step down now.

stop making noise your approach shows that even a dictatotor would be better than you.

this u cant prove.

fellow nigerians, continue to support NOETIC, for a secured future
NOETIC for president2008.

with 3 million votes and still counting, , , , , , ,

fellow nigerians, please excercise ur franchise and secure the future of this great nation.


Vote for a better Nigeria
VOTE NOETIC for president2008

anca:
Noetic I am with u.

thank u very much, the good people of nigeria.

Support a Better Nigeria
Vote Noetic.

faketan:
Noetic you will not win

now u are threatning me.
I will report u to the international community, UN, AU,EU,ECOWAS,NATO,COMMONWEALTH e.t.c.

fellow nigerians, please ignore this IBB in disguise.
Vote vision,
Vote integrity
Vote Noetics.