₦airaland Forum

Abjay97:
Saraki was arrested this morning, to prevent his defection to PDP with a lot of senators, automatically making them the majority.. The plan was to pass a vote of no confidence on Buhari and Hence, impeach him, but the plan got to Buhari, who now ordered his arrest this morning..

Nigeria is ruled by a dictator. BEWARE!

Nigeria has always been ruled by dictators; OBJ did this several times, GEJ did this to Tambuwal, Yaradua's presidency was so short so only he does not have a record of this. This is the type of democratic politics Nigeria is still known for unfortunately.

skallion7:
spirit of iberiberism is disturbing you if you're gonna be celebrating mediocrity

lol... a very strong spirit of ignorance has already possessed and rendered your brain impotent. That explains why despite the short message I wrote, you still couldnt read it so you quickly fell for the trap by not bothering to first check the meaning of the word 'locomotive' before proceeding to return fire. #LazyYouthSyndrome!

Great2017:
Can uncertainty have better value than certainty if we are to reason in a logical manner? What we are saying is there is little or no business sense for a start-up business to have more value than an established enterprise. The reason being that the risks are higher. The Nigerian Government needs to explain to us why they feel they are not being short-changed in this partnership as already pointed by the anology. Or is it that there is something fishing about the venture?

My point was mainly driven at those who already jumped to conclusions that there was something wrong with the entire deal. The normal thing I would have expected is for people to call for explanations and clarification from the government as opposed to just jumping into conclusions which seems to be the in-thing these days. All details of the deal are still very sketchy, we have no idea what the fleet size would be, no idea what the destinations would be, no idea who the investors would be and most importantly at this point, we cannot even categorically say if the $300million is the full cost of the project or if it just represents 5%?... This is one very important point which still isn't clarified (correct me if I'm wrong or missing something), and until this point is clarified, most of the arguments on this thread are just jumping the gun; if we don't know all of these, on what basis exactly are we making any comparisons?

LaudableXX:
Hehehe.....so this is how you are trying to save face, ba? Nobody is arguing with you, so stop deluding yourself. You are the one that has been chasing around my posts on this thread, repeatedly quoting me with your inane remarks. You first tried to muzzle any alternative views, by claiming nobody had a right to make comparisons between established airlines and Nigerian Air, which does not exist. Now, you have turned round to say something else. You are still splitting hairs trying to defend the indefensible, even when sane minds have pointed out the futility of your line of argument. Keep consoling yourself with your inane comments, while the rest of us keep laughing at your clueless attempts to defend Nigeria Air's valuation! Now, how many times do I have to repeat myself that you should stop quoting me in your lame responses? Na by force?

Nope, I'm not trying to save any face, I'm still just trying to get simple education into your repellent skull. And yes you're right, I've been chasing you around the thread and the reason was cos I was just too shocked and embarrassed that a person with such command of English (which to a large extent depicts 'literacy') could not just read and comprehend a simple piece first before jumping to respond with attacks; I was obviously frustrated by your slow comprehension skills, so no thanks to you for that.

Like I said from the start of the thread, the thing sensible people do when they are availed with limited info is to ask more questions and seek for more details, not jumping to conclusions and passing pointless obviously prejudiced judgements. All I did on this thread was wonder why so many folks including yourself did not think it was necessary to first of all ask questions before proceeding to the all too familiar point of bashing. Like seriously, what sound person passes judgement before getting details if not for the many unbaked characters one meets online in Nigeria?

Meanwhile, he still keeps talking of Nigeria Air's valuation being flawed even though on the other hand, he admits he has no clue on the details of the deal; talk of premium buffoonery! And of course the classic comeback when you point out this poor logic is the accusation that "you are defending A or B"

LaudableXX:
Didn't I ask you not to quote me again, with your inane comments? Mustafa Chike-Obi made a comparison. So did a few of us, here. And you want to muzzle our views, by claiming that nobody has a right to make comparisons, because the total details of the proposed airline are unknown? If the details are unknown, what informed their start-up figure of 300 million USD? How did they arrive at that figure? How did they arrive at the 5% shares, that is expected to be Nigeria's equity shareholding? Are you saying Nigerians have no right to ask questions? Oga, if dem send you come, tell dem say you no find me....

I cannot agree with your views. And I am not interested in winning anything. Just get off my mentions. I have made my views known and I stand by them. If it upsets you too much.... then too bad!

Thank you very much for finally getting close to comprehending the very simple message I was trying to pass across all along.... Heck! It took you so freakin long to get this close.... Learn to stop being unnecessarily paranoid and feeling the need to fight everyone you meet online. FYI, I did not say Nigerians had no right to ask questions, as a matter of fact, I repeatedly said the exavt opposite of that.

If only you had the littlest ability to comprehend before jumping to needless arguments, you would have noticed that the very first point I made on this thread (and which I've been trying to make) was that the right thing to do at this stage was to ASK QUESTIONS and get info so as to enable a more informed discussion on the topic, as opposed to just cropping up assumptions, assumptions, and then jumping to judgement and condemnation based on mere assumptions.

LaudableXX:
Oga, you read that Nigeria Air is to have 84 destinations? Where? Please post the url and link, so we can all read and verify. I repeat: No rational, sensible, logical adult would accept the valuation of a non-existent airline whose assets, fleet etc are unknown, especially if it is an entity that has not earned any revenue, when it is compared with those of an existing airline with a balance sheet, whose existing fleet, destinations and asses are well-known. I believe in verifiable facts and figures.

You are free to write another long epistle to justify your inane stand. Kindly do not quote me when next you do so. I do not argue with those whose views are based on a flawed premise.

This man clearly still does not understand the futulity of comparing something he knows nothing about with something else whose facts and figures can be verified. It seems you're just more interested in 'winning an online argument' without even paying attentionto what's being talked about.

Nigeria air is in the conceptual stage. A figure of $300million has been mentioned. Neither you nor I can confirm if this $300m represents 5% of the full proposed investment or if the $300m is the full figure. We both do not also know the proposed fleet size of the new airline, and we do not even have details of the proposed travel destinations. In summary, we both do not have any details of the proposed airline (correct me if I'm wrong on this).

So if we all acknowledge that we do not have details on the proposed airline, vis a vis its fleet size, type of planes, travel destinations etc, then on what basis are you and Mustafa Chike Obi comparing an 'UNKNOWN' to Virgin Atlantic to arrive at your conclusion that its value is suspicious?....

How exactly is this my point so difficult to understand to warrant your subtle jabs?

LaudableXX:
Oga, there were no assumptions in my posts, only questions. Virgin Atlantic's fleet size, assets and destinations are a matter of public record. Nigeria Air's fleet size, destination and assets are totally unknown, or nowhere to be found. And you expect any rational logical person to swallow that Nigerian Air's valuation, hook, line & sinker? Oga, na wa for you, o!

Good thing you know and acknowledge that you do not have any info about the proposed Nigeria Air. But the question I have is, "if you do not have any details of its fleet size, number of destinations etc, how exactly does it then make any sense to compare a something you have zero info on to Virgin?.... I'm shocked that you still cant see how pointless that comparison is?....

By the way I think I read somewhere that the plan is to have Nigeria Air cover up to 84 destinations; that already is double the coverage of Virgin. You and I still do not know the total number of planes Nigeria Air plans to acquire, but based on this sketchy information, you and Mustafa already proceeded to make economic judgements and comparison between Nigeria air and Virgin. Once again, can you still not see how pointless your comparison is?

LaudableXX:
Oh,how would the new Nigerian Air which has not started operations yet and has posted zero revenue, have its shares more highly valued than those of Virgin Atlantic that has been running for years, owns multiple assets and has a large fleet size? Can a business who value is yet to be determined and currently has zero value, be worth more than an enterprise which already exists, and has churned out profits before recording a loss in just one year?

The simple answer to that question is YES. It all depends on the size or the proposed size of the business. You cannot automatically expect a keke napep to cost more than a brand new BMW simply because the keke napep is currently in operation on the streets and making profits. First question that really should have been asked is, "what is the size of the proposed Nigeria Air in comparison to the current size of Virgin Atlantic?"... It's only when/if it is established that both airlines are of similar size, that is the only time the comparison by Mr Mustafa Obi would be meaningful.

LaudableXX:
Oga, stop defending this Nigerian Air valuation, it is not worth it. How many planes would be in their fleet? Would they be a regional carrier or a long-haul trans-atlantic carrier? Virgin Atlantic currently has a fleet size of 39 planes, and is renewing its fleet. It has ordered an additional 17 Boeing 787s. It flies to over 40 destinations world wide. It operates a total of 32 daily nonstop flights between North America and the UK. Do you have proof that Nigerian Air's fleet & destinations would exceed this size? Can a proper valuation be carried out, based on this?

Oga I'm only defending common sense here and trying to promote fact based arguments.

How many planes would be in their fleet?...You do not know. Would they be a regional carrier or a long-haul trans-atlantic carrier?... You do not know. Virgin Atlantic currently has a fleet size of 39 planes; but you do not know the proposed fleet size of the Nigeria Air. So what exactly is the basis for comparing the value of Virgin Atlantic to the proposed Nigeria Air?

Go back and through everything you wrote again, every single thing you wrote is an ASSUMPTION. How can you make an assumption in your head, then automatically hold your ASSUMPTION as FACT, and then proceed to make public arguments and condemnations based purely on your assumption?... And then of course when I or anyone else faults the logic in your argument, you accuse me of "defending Nigeria Air"? ...What ever happened to waiting and sourcing right info first before proceeding to make arguments and condemnations of everything?

LaudableXX:
Oh,how would the new Nigerian Air which has not started operations yet and has posted zero revenue, have its shares more highly valued than those of Virgin Atlantic that has been running for years, owns multiple assets and has a large fleet size? Can a business who value is yet to be determined and currently has zero value, be worth more than an enterprise which already exists, and has churned out profits before recording a loss in just one year?

The simple answer to that question is YES. It all depends on the size or the proposed size of the business.

hungryboy:
should a country in which almost 80% of it population can't afford air transportation be investing in an airline?

The people who can afford it would afford it, and it would help grow the economy of the country, which in turn would positively affect the lives of everyone including the poor.

Not every venture must be aimed directly at the poor poor and poor before we accept it is good. Nigeria also has a large middle and upper class who need to be catered for.

LaudableXX:
Did you even understand the comparison being made, before hitting your keyboard??

How exactly is the cost of Virgin Atlantic a proper yardstick to measure the supposed cost of every other airline?... If 31% of Virgin is worth $286m, does that automatically mean the value of 31% of Airline B must also be in the range of $283m irrespective of fleet size?... The comparison by Mustafa is irrelevant.

cvibe2:
But seriously, how much are the 95 percent owners of Nigeria Air bringing to the table if Govt with 5% are the one bringing out 300m usd.

Something is fishy.

I'm a bit confused at the idea behind this thread. How can a whole thread be dedicated to arguing over 'assumptions'?

The minister said govt would have only a 5% stake, the minister also mentions $300million. There could be 3 possible scenarios:
1. The entire airline startup could be worth $300m, of which the govt brings $15m
2. Airline could be worth $6bn (would be quite a large fleet but not unusual or impossible), of which the govt brings $300m.
3. Airline could be worth $300m and the govt intends to set it up fully first before sourcing for investors to divest 95% of the stake (probably the option taken by the govt to hasten the process).

Whatever the case, nobody in this thread seems to be asking th right question. The tweet by Mustafa Obi by the way holds no water; when did the size of Virgin become a financial yardstick to measure the size of every other airline?

KingLennon:
Buhari should be release into those lions den. I know even if they should feed on him they'll still be hungry. If u knw, u knw

Still not a solution... What do you expect the lions to scratch out of Buhari's body?... As a solution we can consider cutting and throwing Wike's lips inside the den; instant nourishment!

Rossikki:
.

''Nigeria Air Must Fail, Says Oby Ezekwesili"
.
.
REALLY??
.
.
OBY EZEKWESILI, YOU ARE A SICK, DEMENTED FOOL.

NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU ARE OPPOSED TO THE GOVT, YOU DO NOT EXPRESS A WISH FOR NATIONAL PROJECTS TO FAIL.

IF YOU DO THIS, YOU ARE MAD, AND YOU ARE A SICK FOOL.

AND THOSE NL FOLKS TYPING GARBAGE IN SUPPORT OF YOUR LUNACY ARE A DISGRACE.

ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES TODAY IS BRINGING IN BILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO THE ETHIOPIAN ECONOMY. IT IS A LARGE CONTRIBUTOR TO THEIR ECONOMIC RESURGENCE, BOOSTING TRADE, INVESTMENT, AND TOURISM IN THAT COUNTRY.

THE NIGERIANS HERE TALKING ABOUT ''provide basic amenities first'' NEED TO UNDERSTAND THAT THE LESS RELIANT THE NATION IS ON OIL, THROUGH FOR INSTANCE A STRONG AVIATION SECTOR CHARACTERISED BY LOWER COST TRAVEL PROVIDED BY A NATIONAL CARRIER, THE BETTER IT WILL BE FOR THE ENTIRE ECONOMY.

INSTEAD OF USING YOUR BRAINS, YOU DECIDE TO SPIT ON EFFORTS BEING MADE TO IMPROVE YOUR OWN COUNTRY. YOU ARE A DISGRACE.

ETHIOPIAN AIRLINES IS TODAY THE PRIDE OF ALL AFRICA. IT IS ONE OF THE WORLD'S TOP AIRLINES.

ETHIOPIA DID NOT WAIT TO BE ABLE TO ''provide basic amenities'' FOR ALL ITS CITIZENS BEFORE ESTABLISHING THAT AIRLINE. THEY SAW THE AIRLINE AS A MEANS OF BUILDING THEIR ECONOMY SO THAT IT COULD ''provide basic amenities''.

BUT ALL NIGERIANS WANT TO DO IS SIT DOWN, DO NOTHING, AND EXPECT THE ''OIL MONEY'' TO ANSWER ALL THEIR DEVELOPMENT PROBLEMS, EVEN THOUGH BASIC RESEARCH SHOWS THE OIL INCOME IS NOWHERE NEAR SUFFICIENT TO DO THIS, FOR A COUNTRY OF 200 MILLION PEOPLE, AND THAT OTHER SOURCES OF INVESTMENT AND INCOME ARE DESPERATELY NEEDED.

BUNCH OF HOPELESS, PERENNIALLY DISGRUNTLED PEOPLE.

YOU DON'T EVEN DESERVE A NATIONAL AIRLINE TO BE HONEST..... GO BACK TO CHANCHANGI AIRLINES AND DANA AIR, AND RECEIVING INSULTS FROM FOREIGN AIR HOSTESSES ON A DAILY BASIS.

I SUSPECT YOU ACTUALLY PREFER THIS, BEING SADO-MASOCHISTS.

[quote author=Gbawe post=69538261][/quote]Except there are new statements she made which I haven't seen, I follow her on twitter and to the best of my knowledge, Madam Oby did not say she wished for Nigeria Air to fail, bloggers probably gave that interpretation. What I understand she said was that there were certain 'very obvious' impeding factors in the Nigerian aviation sector which have always killed every effort to set up a successful national carrier. And that as long as those bottlenecks are not taken away FIRST, the government setting up a national carrier REMAINS an ill-though move which will eventually end in failure like the others before it.

While I do not fully agree with her, I thought it was necessary to clarify her real statements so we don't end up dedicating an entire thread discussing a misquoted statement.

TonyeBarcanista:
His death is a heavy blow to the people of Nigeria. He died at a time his service is most needed in the development of the country. He has left a huge hole that will be impossible to fill in NIGERIA.

The entire nation will forever mourn and miss him.

May His Soul rest in peace!

poseidon12:
If you are considering solar power, don't even consider air conditioners or clothes driers. Other than that, solar is the way to go in Nigeria if you have the fund. Upfront cost is high, but in the long run, far cheaper and more convenient than using a generator.

Yeah.. but the problem really is that i cant survive without AC. That's the sad part.

If the car doesn't belong to him (or someone close to him), and if the vehicle wouldn't be gifted to him after this stunt, then I really don't know what to term this kind of act.

izzou:
[b]Nepa agent.

Why don't you read up instead of boasting in your ignorance

I may be wrong about Germany ( I apologize) but why not check other countries? [/b]

Bro you wicked oo! how can you call someone 'NEPA agent'?

ThatCEO:
I think it's just in our head, the "herd mentality." Just the way everyone in Nigeria believes the Toyota is king of cars. Once we are stuck with one thing, we don't want to change. Also it could be because people are scared the thing breaking down and no where to repair, but they never get spoilt. Total pump station at Ikeja is being run on solar n they probably have 12 pumps or so, aside the auto worksho and automated car wash (never seen them use it tho).

I also think it's up to the government too, people abroad usually get a tax "write off" of some kind for going solar. Government even offer financing for it.

I personally feel it's down to reliability. People don't feel they can trust the system, some might just feel it's too good or too easy to be true. But if you have a 5Kva system and your gen, the solar will power the TV and all, and gen can be used at night from say like 3hours cos of AC. You will be surprised that House members won't really bother so much about AC, if they are watching TV. Even you would start seeing lesser need for the AC. So, you can try a hybrid structure. NEPA, Gen and Solar, see how it goes before making the complete switch. All those power sucking OX fan needs to go too. I read somewhere that a Chinese company want to start producing panels in Nigeria, hopefully the generator guys won't frustrate them out of business.

If the Chinese guys start producing in Nigeria, that would be a wonderful development. About the generator guys fighting solar producers, that's one real problem with Nigerian businessmen - lack or foresight and flexibility/dynamism. What the generator guys fail to see is that they can actually switch from generator to solar business and make mega bucks.

TonyeBarcanista:
Hahaha e be like say you been don go police college before

Hahaha... Na just too much exposure with police PRO's on TV. North-east-west-south, seems like they all handover the same template to all police spokespersons..

NoToPile:
And for those of us that there is almost zero light our bills will be just like 600 naira with prepaid

Me I want prepaid meter oo. It's those with light in constant areas that reject prepaid meter and that's where the discos take them too because they know they will make maximum profit there. Those of us that have bad supply they will stifle plans to get a meter because they know we can't be cheated again.

Ole them.

Hahaha.. One man's food is another man's poison. SOme people are fighting to get pre-paid meters, others are running away and bribing NEPA to remain on estimated.

TonyeBarcanista:
My brother no be my fault. Na the template wey man pikin learn from leaders wey him com adopt.

Just like the following;

'The police authority have commenced with investigation to bring perpetrators of this dastardly act to book"

"The Governor has setup a committee to determine the immediate and remote cause of the crises. The security agencies have been ordered to maintain law and order. The governor urge citizens to carry on with their normal activities"

Lol... you missed some vital points in the police statement, you missed out my favourite part 'On top of the situation'

"The police authority have commenced with investigation to bring perpetrators of this dastardly act to book. Already, we've made some arrests and the suspects are making 'useful statements' that will help us apprehend the rest of the suspects. We urge members of the public to carry on with their normal activities and be rest assured that the police is ONTOP of the situation"

ahmedbanj:
Are U sure abt pple rejecting ppm? I doubt if dats true.

I also heard a lot of people are rejecting it. My brother in PH previously paid about N15k monthly estimated billing and was lamenting. He got his PPM sometime last year and his bill jumped to over N35k monthly. By fire by force, he quickly learnt how to turn off his ACs which he runs almost 24 hours (he lives in an area where light is almost constant). Sometimes he now even rations the way he turns on his freezer; e.g. turn on only few hours a day, create blocks, and switch off for the rest of the day. The truth is that if everyone is given PPMs, the power bill of so many households (especially those with ACs) will double.

ThatCEO:
Well, I believe the agents are billing you at least twice of what it should normally cost. Check out the quote for this 15.6kva package, complete even with wiring. Don't even trust this quote here, this is just online; should be 30 to 40 percent cheaper at the shops. Unfortunately, for some reasons, I am not in a position to help but I just want you to know that you can get it much cheaper. Though shipping could be another thing.

Price depends on lots of things but trust an agent, they will probably get you the lowest quality stuff just and they might not spend no more than 3M for that 8M quotation.

Hmmm.. This is really interesting and gives one some hope. But like seriously, if solar systems are really as effective and affordable, why isn't it already so popular?... Why would I spend over N3million buying a 15-20kva sound proof diesel generator which would still cost me about N50-N100k weekly on diesel if I could cough out say N6million and get an efficient solar system with very insignificant running costs?... If solar systems are truly as cost effective and efficient, how come the testimonials of the current users hasn't flooded Nigeria's media space?.... A lot of guys in Nigeria buy cars worth over N5-10million in cash, with this amount, they can kiss NEPA, estimated billing and generator noise/fumes goodbye; but that doesn't seem to be the case. I wouldn't want to believe people are just not aware of the existence of solar technology; there must be another reason why it isn't yet so popular in Nigeria as it should be.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not doubting the beauty of solar technology as an alternative to the frustrating NEPA and generators, I just feel there must be a (possibly hidden sour) reason why it isn't so popular yet.

TonyeBarcanista:
He died at a time his services was most needed for the development of the country.

The entire country will miss and mourn him

Tonye you and this your standard eulogy template sef... abeg nor kill person with laugh..

ThatCEO:
Truth is, it is overpriced in Nigeria. If you have someone who can buy and send from abroad, quite affordable. A 10kva system would cost around 2M with shipping with good warranty. Also it doesn't take so much space. A 375W panel will take up the same space as a 100W. Issue is that most Nigerian importers bring in the 100W therebye taking too much space. There are lots of advanced panels, some even foldable. You also need to select energy saving AC and all that. Sometimes, what most homes need is a humidifier n not AC.

Those panels will pay for themselves in 3 to 5 years with 25years lifespan.

It's expensive tho, but a lot of people can comfortably afford but they wouldn't.

Hmm.. you make it sound so beautiful, easy and efficient. I did a quote with an agent once with the number of appliances I mentioned earlier , 2 x 1.5hp ACs, 3 x 1hp ACs, 1 fridge, 1 freezer and 1 TV. If I remember, he told me I would need about a 13.5kw to 15kw system. And the cost quoted was over 8million. While that didnt seem too bad at first, I was also told by another agent that even with that system in place, it wouldnt still power my house for up to 24 hours, and I would need to pray for high intensity sunlight to maximize its production. Was also told most of the solar chargers and inverters in the market are fake, and lest I forget, the 13.5 kw system meant I had to have up to solar panels on my tiny roof space. The whole process and stories were just discouraging. And yeah, its also still very expensive abroad.

ThatCEO:
Solar will solve all these things. However, a typical Nigerian rich man who can afford it prefers to buy diesel to power his Mikano so he can be seen as a big man

Is solar really that effective?... Can it really produce the same amount of power as a simple 10 or 15kva diesel gen?... In a house which has a refrigerator, a deep freezer, 2 x 2horse power ACs and 3 x 1 hp ACs, what exactly is the size of the solar system that can efficiently power such a home 24hrs?... I'm giessing in that case, one might need to buy an extra plot of land by the side to install the solar cells, cos the roof space of this house would probably not be sufficient to take the number of cells required. Just thinking out loud!

Idiocy reigns supreme is some states...

ebukamen:
A plane was to take off on 16th July and suddenly developed engine problem on that day, you are saying that they should apply for it to be replaced (which must be two days at least before the day of travel). How can they get a sudden approval for the flight to take off? To follow the due process means spending another two days before leaving. By that time, don't you think the journey will be late?

It is standard procedure all over the world, except you're in the sky and in an emergency, standard aviation practice globally is that you must apply for landing permission. If you aren't ready to do that, then please travel by road and stop disturbing the ear of Nigerians. We mustn't always break or encourage breaking of rules in this part of the world, haba!

Besides, this isn't even a normal public airport, it's a military base, and probably the reason why applications should be done 48 hours in advance. But that not withstanding, if only you attempted to read the report, you would have noticed the first application they made was today and it was still granted today. SO why didn't they bother dropping another application to formalise the change in equipment? .. Once again, must we always break or encourage breaking of rules in this part of the world and then start wailing when our desire to subvert standard procedures is denied? haba!

obi58:
You have a point there..... Why are we killing ourselves over an issue that events have overtaken?

But back to the matter at hand, Mr Lecturer it's wrong to form an opinion solely on the NAF's response. If you had read the original report, you would have been aware that applications were made for over 5 hours for the use of the replacement aircraft so it begs the question why in 5hours a written request could not have been instituted by the airline operators who I'm sure are not political in any way and would have desired to make the flight to get paid and as such would have done their best to comply with whatever was required of them in those circumstances.

So there again bro, ejoor park well

Form an opinion solely on the NAF's narrative?... Well, I'm sure you already formed your opinion too yesterday when you only heard only one side of the story about how some 'southern leaders' were prevented from landing at Makurdi by 'government'. But right now, the other side of the story has come out and nullified the story of yesterday. If you go to the start of this thread and read my first comment, you would see where I acknowledged that the story by NAF sounds credible, and it stays so until such a time as when the other party comes up with a counter story.