₦airaland Forum

This Aloy guy might be into holy 419 too if he is defending one while pointing out another one in the same line of business.
Canaan land may not be in the same continent as SC but come on dude!

Dude, which pub in Pekham are you drinking at

I remember how happy I was in the mid 90s when Abacha put an end to the war in Sierra Leone and those guys were thanking every Nigerian they saw here but that was a long time ago. Have we had anything to celebrate since? You need to be honest with your self first and foremost, you seem either drunk or confused (I refuse to believe you're an idiot) if you ask me.
Once you really get out of Nigeria and see how governments are supposed to be run, your patience with Nigeria at 49 will become slim to none, when you have the time, try and find out where America was at 49 or the UK, France, Germany, etc. I can't speak for Europe but you are not informed about us here if you think we all do minimum wage jobs, omase ooooooo

We thank God for his mercies.

Abuzola:
What a bat, whats the aim for that preaching, let me tell you even in plane folks like you preach it and it doesn't change jesu aka god didn't die

I am tempted to shout "get behind me satan" but would rather give you a Psalm to ponder!: Psalm 119:9 ;Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word. You might need to be saved before you start dreaming of 72 virgins

We need to EDUCATE people to know that God is not after their hard earned money but their heart and Soul even one at a time.

Where do you want to migrate to?

[quote author=A_K_O link=topic=351847.msg4924127#msg4924127 date=1258205898]Good thread.

Please don't turn it into a bashing playground, rather lets make sensible contributions/suggestions, as unrealistic as they may seem.[/quote]Good observation!

The intention is to rub minds together to find some solutions, there are lots of folks who won't see eye to eye on this topic or questioning "MOGs" management styles for that matter but we have to remember that Jesus Christ didn't come to conform but rather to show the way and pay our debt.
There is a need to more TRANSPARENCY in "Church" finances, the usual, "this is what we took in and this is what we spent" should be an insult to anyone because that doesn't explain what the funds were spent on, "trust us" should not come in at all, people deserve to know how their contributions are being spent and on what.

We need to come up with ideas, name calling and other insults won't be welcomed on this thread. God bless all his true Children, Amen.

Fleecing the flock comes in various forms/ways these days from compulsory tithing, "seed sowing", endless building fund offerings, etc. We need to discuss these fallacies in a Godly manner because he is the one we serve after all, I have my takes on some of these issues and also don't believe the the "Church" makes the Christian and the fact that fellowship and worship with other believers are the only Christian requirements fulfilled in a "Church". One can look all over Europe and see that this made in America and polished in Nigeria prosperity teachings can't take root as these people have seen this before and won't buy what these modern day "MOGs" are selling. We need to educate the people to know what is expected and what is not so they can keep the little change in their pockets and love and help one another instead of giving it to a dude to buy more suits, SUVs, etc.

Let us give our honest take on this issue, God bless.

Owambe journalist for that matter, dude needs to lose weight and not rile us with tales of where he eats in Peckham, I don't care as long as he parades the same looters in his FISH WRAP.

ARmanx:
@ Chemical youz a bitch ass like i said who gives a shit! bout u or your opinion stupid mothafuker

Wrong medication or ran out of prescriptions? CVS/Wallgreen/RiteAid is open I think

Reminds me of the Nigerian movie "1 Dollar"

ttalks:
Tonye, if a Pastor; maybe after his sermon of the day, came up and said,

"Er, . . fellow brethren, Tony had a situation at home which led to his spending all his entire cash on the issue.
At the moment, he doesn't have anything between now and two weeks to come with which he can make ends meet.
I just wanted to let you know so,in case you can do anything to help him out during this period, it would be appreciated."

And then, throughout the period of those two weeks, various members of the congregation helped Tony out with what they could,

wouldn't you call that giving or making offerings? Or is it the offerings that people drop in the offering baskets that go around every service day in most churches that you want to limit as your case of offerings?

Nice one ttalks
However, lots of these Cats/Pimps that go about calling themselves "MOGs" won't even bother with that kind of announcement because "if we do it for brother Tony, we will have to do it for everyone", they only see right in you handing the cash over to them to decide what to do with it or it is wrong.
A Christian should be able on his/her own to decide if they want to split their offering between the church and brother "Tony" or give him all of it, we are not here to "conform" because if Jesus had simply conformed to the old ways, where would our grace come from?

God help us all.

viaro:
I like to plank you sometimes for those silly comments. . and afterwards we can nod to ourselves and move on. So no big worries there.

Well, that's okay; but your comment was simply out of place. I personally know a lot of people who already understand that their tithing is not mandatory, not obligatory, not coerced. And yes, they were tithing while anti-tithing theologians kept making a lot of the hula-hula.

If you can't listen to anyone because you're too full of your self, then there is no need for you to make any comments about how others feel about their preferences. You tend to be too assuming that is why you can't resist jesting about what others do . . and yet it does not satisfy you to let them be without your "yuck".

Amen . . and may you find His help as well.

Ray Ekpu once wrote "Arrogance is the prerogative of the conceited, "(showing my age here )
If some of my comments come off as "silly", not intended and I apologize for those comments, I am glad to know that you know a few people who continue to tithe after the found out the truth and I will be sure to share with everyone when I find one of those.

I like to learn as one can never be too old to learn, it is within my personal nature to analyze and take what I hear or see through my own little "processes" before further actions are required, we don't all have to act alike but there is no need to get profane in our critique.

I am done!

As en vogue used to sing, " you're never gonna get it", it grosses me out when I see folks abuse anything hence the "yuck" and no, I have never come across anyone who continued to tithe after they found out it was not mandatory. No one should tell me how, who, and when to give, even if they try, I won't listen because I am not a "follow the herd" kind of man, I like to blaze my own trails.
These are simple variables that doesn't need to be complicated except when it bothers on tomfoolery and pathological inadequacies.

May God help you in your quest and I do pray you find some peace in your belief system. We must all "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" so to each his own. 

There are a lot of independent minded people in my World (DMV), just check yesterday's election results.

This tonye-t (payback is a B****) sounds like a confused dude and I won't allow him to take me out of my element, I have standards below which I do not operate. I am not a kid and can't be going around in circles so this is it for me, get your "street cred" on and enjoy!

As Fela rightly said, " I don't pass pickin, university sef I pass,  teacher don't teach me nonsense" it's not even 8am yet and I've got better things to do than engage a confused guy (like those European big men in the NBA who shoot jumpers instead of going inside) that brings no value to the issue at hand. To each his own.

Viaro, I reserve the right to close my eyes to undisciplined behavior be it food or otherwise, we are the Temple of God and we have a duty to keep it pure, free from hate, mischief and jealousy. People can choose to do what they like with their money as far as I am concerned, I thank the good Lord for the fact that money is the least of the things I consider me when it comes to a job, money can't make me I make money.
I don't need to prove anything on a digital fish wrap and those who insist on doing that can knock themselves out. I hope we continue to walk in his grace despite our inability to agree on certain things, God help us all.

We need to refrain from LABELS and profanity in a Christian discourse no matter how off track we may think someone Else's point of view might be. This is different from the kind of argument one might have in a Peckham pub or beer parlor, we can't give them enemy victory by becoming "unchristian" in our fellowship with one another.

Whatever you call your "giving" is fine with me as long as you know it is our duty or responsibility to help the less privileged among us but we are not under any mandate (I know I am not) to give to any particular "church" or "MOG" to decide what to do with it as we can also do that ourselves, there is no middleman between me and my God and if folks choose to have one, I will look at it just as I would someone stuffing their face with food or ice cream (yuck!)

Some folks might just want to argue for the sake of having an argument but we need to remember we serve a mighty God and let the LOVE preached by Christ reign supreme. The Church does not make the Christian, the Christian makes the church. that's my 2 cents and it's free

TV01:
Not content with butchering scripture, Tonye-t then attempts to murder the queens English. Dayuum ! Apa!

I was wondering how a ditch became a "dish" , it is hard to spell check when you're too busy looking for justification for the tithing scam in old Greek scrolls(maybe I need to check with my Greek buddies and down some uzos too)

I don't see a need to hate tithers but those who deliberately twist the Scriptures to make it mandatory needs to be exposed for the scam they are perpetuating, simple as that maybe but you know scammers don't give up easily.

Anyone of us can give any % they feel in their hearts to give to those in need, not necessarily an MOG to decide what to do with the cash, giving doesn't have to be always MONEY but these know-it-all MOGs would beg to differ on that. We have to know who we serve and cross check everything we hear from some of these PIMPS/Scamming turncoats because it is clear not all of them serve the same God we believe in.

God help us all in our quest for the unadulterated truth.

Calvary greetings to everyone.


We must never forget who we serve and the fact that we were warned of these FAKE/FALSE teachers, MOGs, Prophets or what have you:

1 John 4

1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

We must refuse counsel from the un-Godly : Psa.1:1, 26:4-5

I could go on but what's the need? We can't just believe everything we hear, this tithe/money thing started here stateside, folks like Idahosa brought it to Nigeria and the rest is history. I don't know that a lavish lifestyle is what a "pastor" is supposed to live or drive in a convoy of the latest SUVs, Private jets, etc. I don't come to Nigeria often enough and a lot of these guys started after "man don check out". That doesn't stop them from coming over here to "collect" from the gullible zombies that don't see a need to question these Pimps in a free society. They remind me of those "naija" musicians that used to announce a "tour" of the USA only to see them playing house parties, halls and what have you. How can you "export" something to "your own" people who happen to live in a different country?

"He who have ears, let him hear"

Tonye-t appears confused as he is speaking from both sides of his mouth!

Dude needs help and lots of it too

Since I have been dubbed Kunle now, the only thing I need from Kunle is his VA address so I can come to their house fellowship as I was thinking of hooking up with him next time I visit Nigeria.

After Jesus shouted "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" from the cross, the great curtain that covered the "holy of holies" room from view in the Temple was ripped open thus removing an intermediary between God and man. Folks like tonye can continue to "service" their "MOGs" with whatever pleases their hearts but those of us who have found the Truth shall be saved by it.

I will help those in need when the spirit directs me and has nothing to do with any %, this dude is too confused to answer simple questions! Omase ooo

Someone mentioned earlier that the spoils of war belonged to the victor, Benin artifacts and those from other tribes that was stolen by Britain is a reminder of how sorry that arguement is because we need them to return those to Edo land  " Oba to kpere Ise!"

Tonye-t quotes the Scriptures like some of those Pimps, quote only the parts that support your scam

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4830737#msg4830737 date=1256919298][size=13pt]this aint questions, but sha I'll entertain all of em' by grace of YHWH questions next week [/size][/quote]Tonye-t, I don't see how I can have an intelligent debate with folks who use "ain't" and " 'em" and remember the apostrophe comes before then E and not the M if you want to speak like a rebel southerner that is.

I am not beginning to think of you as someone who is involved in this unholy scam as you are all over yourself trying to find any justification for this robbery valid or not, you haven't answered simple questions from Zikky or myself instead you attributed my posts to Kunosh accusing him of using another alias, this tithe/prosperity scam started here but you can trust Nigerians to take it to a higher level.

Matt. 23 was quoted by you just like those pimps MOGs and when I pasted the whole chapter on here, you accused Kunle instead and that shows you have nothing to say brother man, we will keep you in our prayers and hope that you abstain from this scam and find some other means to

Matthew 23

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

Sounds familiar?

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Repent now for the kingdom of God is at hand!

39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Tonye-t,


I know you started this thread but as you can see, it's 4th and LONG and maybe it's time you PUNT like any sane man would do.

Thank you and God bless you.

Tonye-t

Are you sure of what you quoted on Matt. 23:23? You must have a different Bible than the rest of us DUDE

Here is the whole Matthew 23 for everyone:

Matthew 23

1Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

[b] 9And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.[/b]

10Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


We need to stop twisting the Scriptures to suite our individual purpose, greed, or whatever. Giving is without a doubt IMPORTANT in our Christian WALK but it is not all that we need to make Heaven, giving comes in all forms BTW.

We need to remember who we serve and also the fact that LOVE is an important ingredient in our quest for salvation, we can disagree in an amicable way.

Anyone who has not seen any abuse of giving and tithes is lucky to be in a safe worship environment or simply unaware of their surroundings in a position some would call "head buried in the sand", giving a tithe or offering to the local clergy and leaving it at that to me sounds like "outsourcing" in which case some folks think of their money working for them when they can do it themselves, this doesn't mean we should not support our local assembly in some ways since we join others to worship and fellowship there.

Matt.25:34-46
34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungered, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

No MONEY or TITHE was mentioned here, we can give all we want but God is really not interested in our money, some "ministries" actually do great job with the resources they receive from believers while the majority-especially the prosperity pimps squander in on themselves and family (I hate to say most of them but it's so glaring)

3John
2Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.

1 Timothy 6:9-10

9But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.


Money is not everything in our WALK, let's work on strengthening our faith and helping others in their quest for salvation instead of trying to outdo one another in what we think is the right way as each and every one of us will have to "work out his/her salvation with fear and trembling"

May God help us all, Amen.

Tony-t

Thank you brother tither for "teaching" me what I didn't know already

Tithe is a form of giving If so why cap it at 10%

What I have tried to say over and over was that if folks decide in their hearts to give a certain % at whatever frequency, fine but for an "MOG" or "pastor" to call it a requirement, it is wrong doctrine.

Man can't decide for God, anytime I have seen "tithe" mentioned in the Bible, it was never used in a singular sense, it was always tithe of produce of the land or livestock, there was money even in Mosaic times.

Giving is fundamental to our faith but ONLY for those who can afford it, where are the Levites today to collect the "tithe of the land"? Gentiles were made to pay it too?

The coming and death of Jesus Christ so "that MAN no more may die", "That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin", etc CLEARED us and gave us a new life.

God is interested in our HEART and SOUL and how we keep it clean from the "devourer" and not how much we can contribute to the local worship assembly place, the sale of indulgence can't be brought back.

We can disagree like Christians and keep each other in prayers but never stoop so low in our exchange which can only be pleasing to the ears of the devourer.

I don't need an English language class, been there done that!

You remind me of the old song "sensa una donna"

Viaro, I am sorry if you thought some of my posts to be harsh or personal attacks at your person as that has never been neither will it ever be my focus, I like to debate issues not personalities as only our Lord Jesus Christ is blameless.

The point I tried to make was that Genesis comes before Hebrew, old Testament comes before the new Testament, in Genesis we learned how Abram became Abraham and you don't need a law degree to get what I was trying to say there.

My position is clear: People can give what % they feel to their "Church" but there is no commandment to do so, we are commanded to care for Widows, Orphans, strangers in our "gates", etc based on how we are directed by the Holy Spirit and those who are unable to face no condemnation.

My position remains that the only Christian condition fulfilled by worshiping in a "Church" is Fellowship because "Iron sharpeneth Iron", if you have other conditions, please feel free to share or "teach"

Why do we tithe and yet "worship" on a Sunday? Aren't we supposed to keep the whole Law instead of just one? Did Jesus pay our debt on the cross so we can continue the "tithe" law?
If one makes his/her living in that scam, is that not sinful?

"viaro", the results are in and overwhelmingly in favor of you seeking help even if we have to pony up a "percentage" of our income to fund that project.

Fraulein is German for "young lady" and I thought you knew it all, Ich bin nicht Deutsch, aber ich kann ein wenig sprechen

I couldn't care less what a frustrated person calls me, I might have been called more by underlinings anyway so you are welcome to try as hard as you can, nothing so quickly kills a person as the publicity he/she gives him/her self, many folks come on here and sound like they've got splendid capabilities but when push comes to shove, they display their true colors, like a rotten egg which shines outside and stinks inside.

I don't see any answers to the questions so when all else fails, retort to the known, attack with no merit. I've seen your kind in the old neighborhood

Hebrews must have come before Genesis using your logic this woman don begin dey sound like government pickin sef!

Consistent inconsistency doesn't make you a great debater QED, I laid out questions that you skipped conveniently and all I can say is why bother with you? Spend some time with kids if you don't have any and you might learn something new.

Who the hell is mrs. Donna

It is near impossible to quicise some folks especially if they suffer from keyboard incontinence

I guess also that our "Jerusalem" or central place of worship these days is the "church's" bank accounts or the MOG's bank account.

This Viaro lady omase ooooooooo

Genesis 17: 5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

I am not a fan of Ecclesiastical nonsense and would appreciate some honesty from those who call themselves Christians.
You are unable to show where MONEY was "commanded" "decreed" to be used for tithes
You are unable to show where non land or livestock owners were commanded to tithe
You are unable to show where Christians were commanded to pay weekly/bi-weekly/monthly tithes
You are unable to show where God or his son Jesus commanded us to be "ditto heads" to "MOGs"
You are unable to answer the simple question of the origin of our current tax &banking system

I could go on but I need to see a response to this first, intellectual dishonesty should be reserved to a zombie arena not a gathering of the learned. Those of us who have the chutzpah to disagree with ditto heads should not be insulted just because pro tithers are unable to come up with superior argument to buttress their point.
I shudder at the rigmarole and inability to answer simple question but instead turn it into a crap shoot, there is nothing infallibly prophetic about pessimistic or cynical conjectures. what is the meaning of "to redeem"? you could "redeem" your old computer for cash if there is anyone interested in antiques

I happen to hate shooting indiscriminately because as a professional, I should be better than that and shoot with precision.

Viaro!

It would be nice to get your explanations to the Scriptures below:


Leviticus 27:28Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD.

29None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death.

30And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

31And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

Another question you and Tonye forgot to answer was why there was no mention of craftsmen and other working folks even farm hands paying tithes in those days, as I mentioned in previous posts, Abraham didn't pay any tithe, Abram did. Abram paid this tithe from the spoils of war before he had a covenant with God so the pro-tithers do need to get their story straight. Genesis 14:11-24 (King James Version)

11And they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their victuals, and went their way.

12And they took Lot, Abram's brother's son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.

13And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

14And when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.

15And he divided himself against them, he and his servants, by night, and smote them, and pursued them unto Hobah, which is on the left hand of Damascus. || 2 Peter 2:7-8 (King James Version)

7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:

8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds ||You know the rest of the story I am sure.

It is more rewarding for me to teach my kids Bible stories that engage in endless semantical gymnastics with folks who confuse issues. I don't have a background in human psychiatry but one might not need that on NL to identify with those who think some folks need help.

I will keep you in my prayers Fraulein!

WOW


I had no idea that "redeem" , "if"or 20 fold won't answer your question, haba!

Our "Christianity" allows us to call guys "girlie in skirt" na wa for waec.

As Fela talk " I don pass pickin, I don pass university, " so teacher don't teach me nonsense, anyone who wants to be "zombified" by this obvious scheme/scam go continue as well so save your lecture for those.

God help you in your journey, As for me, I will continue my walk in faith with his grace.

viaro:
But calm down. . . calm down. May I ask: who penalised anyone for using money as tithes? Who? Where? When? How is it that people make such blank statements in the idea that their own arguments are all there is to the topic?

Viaro: Leviticus 27:28-35 laid out the tithe system for the Children of Israel.

I have not seen anywhere on NL where "pro tithers" answer the question of the current tax system that we live under and how it relates or comes from the old tithe system. Tithe was never about money or else we would see instances where "craftsmen", or other non farm/produce related "professions" were made to pay. The system suffered abuse even then hence Malachi writing about it before Jesus Christ himself was chasing them out of the Temple for "turning my father's house into a den of thieves"

This and other Scriptural abuses might just be the "Spiritual wickedness" we ware warned to arm ourselves against because asking a "broke" man, widow, orphan to pony up some cash so the "MOG" can add to his fleet of SUVs or what have you has got to be from the devil to say the least. Jesus was not different from his disciples or they wouldn't need him to be betrayed with a kiss.
It our duty as Christians to help others and not expect even a thank you because we are doing it for our Lord but it is NOT OUR DUTY to buy a "pastor" a bigger house, newer car, nicer suits, etc. If people decide to "bless" him with any or all of the above, than can do so as long as it comes from their heart.

Tonye,


God bless you too!

I have seen your "work" on other threads so there is no need to continue this with you because it seems you benefit from this scam one way or another or you won't under normal circumstances be defending it "to the death", reserve your stuff for the academia not NL.
The whole essence of Christ's work was love for one another, care for the widows, orphans, strangers in "your gates", etc and not tithe. He admonished the "scribes and pharisees for their tithes of mint, cumin, dill, etc" and "forgetting the weightier matters of the law" . In case you forgot, those are FARM produce/spices or produce of the LAND. When he needed to pay temple tithe, he paid with "2 shekels", when TITHE was required, money was not to be used or if you follow Mosaic law, you were actually penalized for using money.
I am sure you will need the Bible verses for these too , I am not against supporting your clergy but it should not be under FALSE PRETENSES/ASSUMPTIONS. Remember the "building" doesn't make the Christian, the Christian makes the "building, "where two or three are gathered in my name, I am there", I could go on. Giving should be from the heart and or one's own free will, anything less is not Christian. Little wonder that Nigeria's so called "MOGs" are exporting Christianity to the "West" and the country remains a failed state at best, Charity ought to begin at HOME.

[quote author=Tonye-t link=topic=307798.msg4762050#msg4762050 date=1255959106]

[Font=trebuchet ms]Dear Ogajim,
Are you saying I should stop the Nonsense Jesus Instructed? or I Should stop telling folks the truth that you and I both know deep deep down inside the heart?

Ok I see, you prolly waiting for Jesus Christ to appear in your dreams and say to you [U] HEY MY SON OGAJIM, I AM JESUS CHRIST THE SAVIOUR OF YOUR LIFE, PLS I BEG YOU START PAYING YOUR TITHE HENCEFORTH[/u] Pathetic, who says Jesus never demanded it? I always feel like laffing each time I hear peeps saying Jesus never demanded so so and so from us now I ask you Do you know that even Jesus himself demanded more from us? [/font]

[/color]



[color=#000099]Now the big puzzle is this, if Jesus could tell us (I wont be surprised to see some folks still come up here and say this passage doesn’t apply to us. . .hmmm) to give up our all (including all our monies) to follow him, then why do we feel so hard fisted to JUST LET GO OF A TENTH. Wouldn’t that mean the act of GREED? And hope you know how God resent greedy folks

[b][/b]

[li] My case is this, must you need to hear Jesus say it time and time again to give tithe, b4 we adhere, isn’t a word enough for the wise? Afterall, do you mean to tell me that because he only talked about little or nothing about fasting meant it has no basis today?
OR
Is it that WE ARE REFUSING TO PAY OUR TITHE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY OUR MOGs HAVE ABUSED AND TRAMPLED ON THE ACT? If the later is our reason, then we definitely need a rethink, a true word is enough for the wise [/li][/quote]Tonye-t


This is the kind of twisting of the Gospel that many so called "anti-tithers" fight against, giving to the poor, widows, strangers, orphans, etc. I don't see where the Bible said the "church" knows better how to spend your money for you.
Each of us will have to "work out his/her salvation with fear and trembling", I don't have a problem with members who decide to "bless" their "pastor" with something but it should not be forced, cajoled, etc.
The only Christian condition fulfilled by going to a "Church" is fellowship because "iron sharpens iron" and is not the "enchilada", some get "saved" in a "Church" but the heart and Soul is where Christ dwells in which is why the devil is after that, I am tempted to tell Tonye-t to get a job but I don't know if he just moonlights as a "pastor"

MOG, was reserved for Angels right?

Tonye-t, you need to stop this nonsense! Did Apostle Paul live off the Gospel? If tithe was such a requirement Jesus would have DEMANDED it as well as the Apostles that took over spreading the Gospel afterwords. The devil is a very smart dude to the point that he has taken over some of the so called "churches" to the point that they're preaching nonsense instead of the true Gospel of Christ.
Nothing stops a "pastor" from taking a real job instead of running a scam that has no Scriptural ground, no wonder Jesus Christ pointed out that even some of them that performed miracles in his name will be denied on that great day, if someone wants to give 10% or more out of their own conviction, that is fine but they should not be "shamed", cajoled, or even scared into thinking that 10% tithing is a requirement of Salvation.
Being a "pastor" should not be because you couldn't get a real job, it should come out of a true desire to serve God and not profit from the Gospel of Christ. Our God doesn't dwell in temples built with human hands, support your "pastor" if you can but you face no condemnation if you are unable to support the pastor, the orphan, the widow or the stranger. Enough of this heresy!