₦airaland Forum

@Bawomolo:

the existence of an imaginary being can neither be proven nor disproven. and philosophical proof is an oxymoron.

Whatever is beyond your comprehension is oxymoronic. I get it and I will not waste my time to say anymore. Someday, I wonder if Nairaland.com is an imaginary name for a website? I wonder if there is a place called Nigeria on an imaginary continent called Africa? Just imagining. You can blame me to step in your shoes about these things.

all humans are born atheist, that's as natural as they come. u were socialized to believe in a supreme being. that's what's unnatural.

You got it wrong, my man. The Prophet of Allah Muhammad (as) said in an authentic Hadith: All children are born Muslim (a belief system), but it is their parents who turn them to Jew or Christian (another set of beliefs).

@Stimulus;

I think this is rather preposterous. It is now the vogue for Muslims to assume just about anything that flies about Christianity; but having gone through your piece, I don't see how you attempted to address the issue sanely.

Just wait and watch. Maybe you will learn something. The atheist have been bashing the bible, contacdicts et all and you have not put up any effort about it.

What about the fact that the answer for all Muslims is the very factor that led many to become atheists?

Plain english please; I did not get you. What are you talking about? Could you be frank and let th Muslims approach the subject/question directly! I think the 3 godheads for 1 god is probably the condition that confused some people so badly that they became atheist; shunning all possible chances to find another belief.

However, when atheists bring up the question/denial of the existence of God, a few irrefutable points are always seen again and again:
(a) atheists often launch their attacks against Christianity - often so because Christianity proves to be the most coherent worldview that brings the question of the existence of God to the heart and conscience of man! When atheists say that they are questioning "religion", it doesn't take long to see that their efforts are actually geared more against "Christianity" than any other faith!

I wonder when Hutchinson wrote his anti God book, why did he titled it " God is not great?" Which group says God is Great, more than the other, the Christians or the Muslims? The first line in Ahdan is Allahu Akbar (God is Great in Arabic). Give me a line to rival it in Christianity. Will you.

(b) when atheistic threads are floated in any public forum/blog, Christians have always been the ones who address atheistic questions - and they often do so in a rational, coherent manner which in fact leaves the atheist unable to defend his assumptions. This is what we have seen even in this forum. How many Muslims have dared to enter such debates with atheists even on this Forum? It seems Muslims have had aboslutely nothing to contribute, and so they remain silent all along, or otherwise absent from the forum, hoping that the tide would pass before they themselves resume their own attacks against Christianity.

This dude is confusing largeness in Number to substantive in Thought. No my brother. Majority may rule, but it does not make the rule a just rule. Unfortunately, I see a lot of threads opened by many against Christianity and your contribution have been Zero.

(c) Christianity continues to witness an ever-increasing attack from every side - atheism, Islam, paganism, naturalism, etc., - but Christianity continues to weather these attacks without seeking to issue any fatwa to anybody! What is more, Christianity continues to grow inspite of the attacks; and Christians have continued to debate such issues coherently with sound reasoning. We continue to see positive results from such non-violent responses, to the extent that quite a number of atheists themselves have become leading Christians, or otherwise abandoned their atheistic positions.

I see where this is going; Nowhere. Where do you live again? I remember President Bush declaring Crusade against Islam. Maybe he meant to say Christianity. Here on Nairaland, you could not shake off the avalanche of therationa. And indeed it is a Muslim, by the name of Lakpenne who came to rally the troop against him.

(d) Even when you check this motherboard carefully, you find that where atheistically-inclined minds have responded to Muslim posts, the threads died prematurely: because Muslims have had no answers to those singular responses from atheists (as in the example of the Qur'an on Human Embryology Development). We haven't seen Muslims entering into spirited debates with atheists to offer sane, sound and serious answers as Christians have done and continue to do so even on this forum. Let's just imagine what would have happened either to Seun (the admin of this site), or to any atheist who dared to question The Great Religion!

I asked a very simple question to the atheist but they could not answer it. Maybe i should ask you here and now: Do you think that mankind have reached full knowledge concerning Embryology or anything for that matter? If your answer is know, then how could you make a definite conclusion that your conclusion today will be able to stand the knowledge of tomorrow? If your answer is no, then that was your answer. It is my complete conviction that there will be future knowledge that will proof Qur'anic statement about all things correct. Further, by the end of time, there will be some knowledge get unrealised from the Qur'an. For example what is the nature of "SOUL?"

(e) And this is even more fascinating: those who think themselves "champions" of atheistic rationalism have never proffered sane, sound or serious answers to the responses Christians have offered in their threads. I have personally challenged both therationa and bawomol/bawomolo to enter seasoned debates with me on their assumptions (even offering bawomol/bawomolo the advantage of his own tool of "philosophy" in debates) - and for all these, they have chickend out and never at any time accepted my invitations to such debates! WHY? The answer is obvious - they were never confident of their own assumptions or premises, and have rather been slaving themselves on the incoherent ideas of others which they cannot defend.

Is that true guys? Bawomol and co, how do you think you can stand the avalanche from Muslims who have One God, if you 'Chicken' out from a three in One christian god belief?

It just is about the same thing that happens in my invitations to Muslims who have sought pedantically to attack the Christian faith. For example, several times where I invited olabowale to enter into a discussion on the exegesis of his misgivings on the Trinity, he has consistently baulked and instead has sought to litter other threads with his noise in precisely the same manner that these gentlemen (therationa and bawomol/bawomolo) have been demonstrating in their own adventures.

You must be dreaming. Didn't I ask you to explain to me why you used Greek words in One place and switch to Hebrew in another? Come on. Okay I am here now. But please don't ask me to expalin a word to you in Greek, a language which did not see any revelation. Be consistent, then I will debate you. I haver no time to waste with going from one language to another. And by the way, I can chew gum and walk at the same time, hence, it ia not impossible for me to attend to more than one thread at any time.

(f) Of course, let's not forget that Muslims have perfected the art of "plagiarism" by ferreting most of their queries against Christianity from the same skeptic and atheist websites! What is even more sinister is that the Muslims who have been heralded cheaply as "champions" of Islam on this forum have never demonstrated any rational or critical thinking of their own! Again, I've offered both babs787 and olabowale a few invitations to discuss their misgivings intelligently - while babs787 scooted off several times and never wanted to enter into an intelligent debate, olabowale assumes that running of from thread to thread with the same literary excreta might just be a better alternative for his emptiness!

I hear your complaint. Now when can we do this Trinity thing, again? How do you define a word that is foreign to the Bible? Do you have Trinity as a word in the Bible? And please don't tell me you have the idea in it, because there is no reason for you to omit something as important as Trinity, but only develop in the Bible instead an idea on it.

On the whole, as Christians are not in the business of arguing aimlessly, you will not find them ever so desperate trying to answer every thread floated with the kind of childish queries that we have seen in recent days. It is not he who makes the most noise that is intelligent - but again we have seen that the few answers offered to such trolls make more sense than the noise being made by these gentlemen. We have seen more intelligent inputs from a few other atheists on the forum; but these self-seeking apprentices make this forum a huge laugh and shadow of its former glory!

You complain too much. I am sick of it. Just approach the topic and stay on it. When shall we do this Trinity thing again?

@KAG

Evolution of the concept; archetypal remnants; pleasure principle attached to the concept; social and cultural pressure.

The word evolution must be very special to you. Is there anything that has no foundation in evolution, KAG? Yet when anyone is in special and peculiar condition: we hear people say "Oh God, or My God, or Oh my God, etc."

No, the Big Bang theory is not the same as the conception of virtual particles. I used virtual particles to refute the argument that claims something can't come from nothing. Virtual particles indicated something different from the premise of the argument. It holds water, but of course you wouldn't know that.

The joke is on you. I was being very sarcastic. I was wondering which came first, the Big bang or the Virtual particle? Let me ask you this though; If the Virtual particle just came from nothing, was there an empty space in existence before the Virtual particle? How did that space came into existence, and where was the space? And to the Big Bang, before it happened on that particle that had the bang, how did the Particle came to existence and where ws it? Inshort where were these Particle before the Big bang and the other that was Virual particle. Where was the force and how did the force came about before it acted upon the Big bang Particle? Do we now believe that there are concepts or occurrences that are not under any scientifically acceptable Principle? When you finish slicing through it all you will see that God is in there. He is indeed behind it all.

I suspect this is often down to cultural background than anything else. It isn't coincidental that most of the atheists in the Western world - most of whom make up an astounding number on messageboards - come from a Christian background. The assumption, then, is that since Mohammedianism was shown false while I was Christian, then the religion that remains to be faced (in a manner of speaking) is the one that I came from. I don't think it has much to do with coherence.

There is nothing called Mohammedianism. Yes, I remember, it is cultural. So was the falsehood of your assumption about Islam. I remember my friend who we even considered ourselves as brothers, that was pre 911. But Boy, after that day, he flipped 180 degrees. And it took him all those years untill 2006, before we even began to see eye to eye. He is is Swiss Catholic by the way.

I offered you 3 simple questions on the Trinity thread - you never offered any answers to forward the discussion. If you can revisit that thread and answer those 3 simple questions, I will keep my promise to discuss the material you plagiarized from Ahmed Deedat. Do you care to answer those questions?

Alhamdulillah, Ahmad Deedat (ra) was a believer. I hope you do not expect anyone to reinvent the wheel, especially, when there is no need to do so?

The Muslim attitude of plagiarizing other people's articles and demanding people to answer your questions has been abrogated - it is no longer applicable; and until you sit down and present something of your own without stealing copping out arguments from others, you have no claim to demand anything from others.

You are a funny dude. The issue with you is that you want the muslim to not refer to anything Islamic, while presenting an argument for Islam against your false claims? How then can you refer to the Bible for anything for Christianity?

@SysUser:

It seems you and your cohorts cannot debate intelligently without being abusive. My question is still in line with the thread. You and your apologists claimed that God is not God and I asked you simple questions which you ignored and pumelled me with yours. Now, if you really need answers for that, BABS will do that but you create threads for your ignorance and I will educate you.

Now once again, if God is not the same as God and shouldnt be replaced with same, what word is used for 'GOD' in Hausa bible.
Also, what do Arab Great Ones call God?
What does Northern christian call God?
Thanks and no diversion please.

Arabs are arabs as such it is expected for them to worship their idol, and call it , "A.L.L.A.H"
Hausa have been enslaved and colonised by Arabs or fulani stoges hence that Arabic is used their would still explain the idol name , "A.L.L.A.H"

so now if you at least want to pretend to be sincere then you should also answer my questions, (which I actually doubt you would, ) (Cus lying for ALL.AH is acceptable)

The last time i checked, Islam came to destroy the belief in Idol worshipping. Further Just because a word is used wrongly prior to its proper usage, does not mean that the new and now proper usage is also wrong. I doubt if what the hausa and or fulani speak can qualify as Qur'anic Arabia or less, still arabic of any kind. They may have a word or even more words that have arabic sound or arabic root, yet they do not speak arabic. Further, the Yoruba word of Alafia, is from the Arabic root word 'afia,' clearly having the same meaning. In english you have rafter, a word denoting a high place/structure or ceiling. This word has its root in rafa'h, meaning the same thing. So your opinion and suggestion are at best weak for consideration of any importance. Of course, you will like us to believe that you you are saying something, which is the reason, I am going to demolish your below list of questions.

My questions again are:

BABS SINCE YOU LIKE ASKING QUESTIONS MAYBE YOU CAN GIVE ANSWERs TO MINE,

1. Is Arabic the original language of the Northerner,
2. Why does the great religion prevent people using their own language for "aL.LA.H"
3. Why does M.uslim.s worship, the Moon and Star,
4. Why is an idol called "aL.LA.H",
5. Have you come across a Yoruba bible, what do the call God in that bible,
6. What does the Yoruba man call God,
7. What does the Yoruba  M.uslim.s call, God
8. What happened to the original egyptians that the arabs colonised in eqypt, what was the original language of egypt and how come they are now speaking arabic,
9. Why was mo.ham.med a peadophile,
10. Is your idol , "A.L.L.A.H", to lacking in understanding for it to understand other languages,
11. Why was there different qurans and extreme contradictions in the original versions of arabic the great book before , they were mostly collected and burnt , so as to pretend as if only one the great book exised,

Answers: (1) No; Yet they do not speak Arabic even till this day. (2); Allah is the Proper name for the Creator. Thats what He calls Himself. And we do not have the right to Change it. All we do is, we hear and we obey. (3) Muslims worshipping the moon and stars? Thats new to me and yet Astrology/Zodiac is not permissible in this great religion of Islam. You can see how naive you are with your assumptions in your questions. (4); There was never an idol called Allah. There was idol called allat, and that is very different in writing, even though Arabic was an Oral tradition, yet they are pronounced differently. I wanted to educate you better, but i decided against it to at least for now allow you to remain ignorant. By so doing waybe the Nairalanders can see you for all that you are. (5); Yoruba never use "GOD" in its Bible. The Creator are known as Olorun, Oluwa, Olodumare. Since my mother was a Christian before her convertion: I have seen a Yoruba Bible before and Oluwa and Olorun were used instead> And Jesus was denoted as Jesu omo Mariama or Meri. It truly shows that the two are different. (6) and (7) ; Olorun and thats exactly every one Christians or otherwise from Yoruba land will call God, in Yoruba proper discussions; The Muslim will say for example "Ope ni fun Olorun Oba." You ever heard that one? (; The Coptic people still have a remnant in Egypt. But look back to Sudan, which used to be part of the same thing. Both Sudan and Egypt still have their own native african languages. I heard Sudanse speak this native language recently. (9); I ask you again; what is the age of maturity from tradition to tradition? First start with the Yorubas, a tribe which I think you belong to? Then go to The Children of Israel; the age of bahmisva which is 13 years old. Do you know about the age of the arabs or the pigmiese of Congo? I asked you if you know when Aisha was born relative to her father's acceptance of Islam. Yet you just carried on without responding to my question. (10); There is lack of understanding any language here. Afterall, I make dua and supplicate in Yoruba language, in my Salah. The English people speak their own language too to talk to Allah. However, He says that He reveals the Qur'an in pure arabic language. He requires our obedience to His will. that includes reading the Qur'n in pure Arabic language. We are not as arrogant as you. You have your way, we have ours. We cannot make them up like. (11); This guy is behaving as if he has not seen any of the answers to these redundant questions in other threads. I almost believe that he loves to pretend and close his eyes to truth. For sure his heart are closed to truth.

Go and read about Qur'an. I will recommend Jamaal Sarabozzo's book; Introduction to the Science of Qur'an to you. Dont be shy or timid to read it now. It will do you a lot of good.

@SysUser: Evidently, your knowledge of Islam and Arabic language is very poor. But that has not stopped you to predento be an expert in both. Fusat, is the language of Qur'an and it is the Gold standard or hallmark of Arabic language. Even the Arabic follows the grammar in Qur'anic Arabic. Every Arab goes to schol to learn this finest quality of Arabic. And not all speak, or write it.

Which means the "Mu.s.lims" must simply do what "moha.mmed tells them to do, simply because.
1. They have no access to "A.LL.AH", except whatever Moha.mmed tells them that A.LL.AH told him,
2. Moha.mmed has access to A.LL.AH
3. They can't prove that Moha.mmed is lying since , there is no second opinion ,

Thus even when Mohamme.d's paedophilic orgy with Aisha becames the periods of inspiration for him, the gullible Mu.s.lims could do nothing but obey him , since doing contrary can mean death, as it does today!

I guess that Muhammad followed the true spirit of prophethood: We see that the Children of Israel never disobeyed Moses, from the Biblical understand, when he was with them. Except when he was not with them did they played the field. I also realise that they even told Moses not to let 'God' (singular, throughout Moses Prophethood) speak to them directly, but to Moses who will inturn relay it to them. When it came to Jesus, there was no place that the Bible stated that the Companions of jesus insisted to speak to God, instead of Jesus is messenger, who will relate it to them.

I wonder it is because of second opinion(s), that all of a sudden after Jesus left the stage, having been raised up, body and soul that the '3 god or persos of god became the craze, instaed of One God of Moses all the way to Jesus's time? I see now that second opinion can be deceiving and can be dead wrong. The benefit of second opinion may just be good in Medicine, then.

It seems that the assumption that Muhammad does not allow anyone to have access to God is very unsound. Every Muslim prays directly to Allah, Supplicates to Him and seek only His aid. Surah fatiha of the Qur'an testifies to this. The whole Qur'an testifies to it. Muhammad's saying to his beloved daughter, fatima zarah speaks volume about this: Oh Fatima, if you ask ask Allah directly. Depends on Him alone. Abu Bakr gave everything to Islam. When he was asked what he left for his family, he said: Allah and His Messenger. I do not know where you are goung with your argument and I just can not help you if you can not articulate properly.

@SysUser;

olabowale welcome back, good to hear from you, I was starting to get worried , about who's going to provide the required light entertainment around here

I am not in the entertainment business. So your statement is off the wall. I am only interested in One thing; Tell me where Qur'an and Hadith/Sunnah justify slavery? Again we see a lot of Muslims in Nigeria consuming alcohol, yet it is forbidden; why do they do it? Human nature that why.

So the evil of Arabs, Predominantly muslims, does not point to Islam acceptance of it. Some Muslims will spend time in Hell fire, will all Christians, Jews and the other: idol worshippers and deniers of Allah's existence will remain in Hell fire.

@SysUser

Ayinba.1 or whatever , that would be assuming you have made a positive "Non-Great Religion Bashing" or "Great Religion Ass kissing " comments right   ,

Is this how you should speak to a woman?

The reason you people can't take the truth, is because its the truth and the truth is too painfully obvious for you people, hence you resort to all sorts of things to suppress the truth from being revealed,
Take for example there were certain things about "I.sLAm[i][/i]"  that I did not know until i stumbled unto it on the nairaland forumn, those rubbish and filthy and peadophilia of your "Great Prophet" would have been difficult to find out from a less than free source,

Could you tell me how Old a person can be before they are considered mature? Let me help you, the Children of Israel (you call them Jews), consider it to be 13 years? Further what is that age in the rabs of 1400 years ago? How old was Aisha when her father became a Muslim and what year did her father became a Muslim? I have many questions for you on this matter, but I bet you will shy away from answering them. All of your copatriot, Davidylan, Nwando, etc did the same. They just could not answer, instead hiding behind a single finger!

The Word of the Lord God Almighty (God of Abraham, Isaac and Esau), is too hard for you people and your "demon Al.l.A.H" to handly, simply because He has already said His word would pierce through you people like a double edged sword , hence why you people resort to violence at the slightest scent of being exposed for who you people really are ,

When did Ibrahiim, Isiaq andf Isa bin Mariam became Christians or Jews? I think you are not even sure of what you are saying. Judaism as a religion did not come about, after Moses. Yet we see that Ibrahiim and Isiaq were long time before Moses. Further we see that Jesus was correcting the people, asking them to follw the way of Moses. That was not Judaism, because during all the announcements in time of moses, there was not a time that they were called Jews but always Children of Israel.

@Horus (m)'

An Arab M'uslim master's punishment for a slight offence.
The log weighed 32 pounds, and the  boy could only move
by carrying it on his head.' (1890).

Tell me, do you know the condition of the young boy or the condition of th Arab oppressor, today? No man. Allah knows all the injustices in the hearts and which is carried out. No one is condoning any injustices by anyone, past, present or what will be done in the future.

Muhammad says in his hadith: If you see injustice, change it by your hands (your power, if you have any; money, influence, etc), if you are weak to do that, talk about it and if you are weaker still, at least hate it in your heart. And that is the least you could do because of your incapability to do better.

@AlfaPrime:

you're quite correct and factual in your submissions, only that You failed to explain why we don't have so many "African Arabians" who are descendants of African slaves captured by the Arabs, You know, just like we have African Americans,  Research has proved indisputably that the simple reason is that, while the western slave traders allowed their African slaves to at least marry and procreate, the Arabs made sure they castrated their African slaves! Thereby adding to the other evils of slavery, the anguish of loss of manhood and hope of a family life.

Now judge that.

My man, I am a Muslim, and i aught to know the conditions of the Muslims, African (I wrote it deliberately like this, less somebody will read any meaning to it; considring the warp opinions of people around here), Arabs and others. THe Qur'an does not say that Muslims will not give in to evil deeds. Neither did the Prophet (as), in his Hadith and Sunnah indicated that no muslims will do evil things. We learnt that from among the Muslims, belongs the rank of 'hypocrites.' We also know that presently, we have a good numbers of Muslims, male and female who indulge in everal types of evil actions, even though that each knows the consequences of these deeds. For examples we see that the so called Sharia enclaves of Nigeria put only poor people under the jurispudence of Sharia; the women who were accused of adultery. We know that no single person can just by himself or herself commit adultery. What happened to the men? These were the partners in these evil deeds. We also see that the Arabs, who own Bodegas or corner stores in poor neighborhoods in the West, indeed in USA, sell Pork, have gambling machines, sell alcohols and indeed have sex with the poor women in these neighborhoods for exchange of "Whatever," a double crime by itself; illicit sex and 'riba,' (Taking undue advantage of these poor people).

Now that all have been said, one needs to look at the conditions of "Slavery" and black slaves during the time of Muhammad the Prophet of of Al Rahman and the two following generations known as the Tabi'in and Tabi tabi'in. We will read from the Qur'an that all creation; Jinn, Man, Angels, etc are abd of Allah. Surah Mariam, Allah the Almighty states towards the end of that luminous chapter that all will come to Allah as slaves. All included Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, Ibrahiim, Noah, etc (A. S. to all if them). The arabs are not immune from this position of slavehood to Allah.

In the farewell address, Muhammad (as) said that no Arab is better than non arab, just by being that, and no non arab is better than Arab in the same light. Each is valued in the sight of the Creator by God consciousness and piety. We must also now go into the Qur'an to realise that slavery of one man by the other is forbidden and Islam came to eradicate it.  Allah says that Oppression (slavery i one form of it) is worse than Killing (a terminal action to life). Further we see that Bilah ibn Rabah, an Ethipian slave was ransome to freedom by Abu Bakr, a wealthy Arab Muslim, from a non Quraishi non Muslim. We also would realise that sometimes in the Madina era, there was a Makkan Muslim who use a derogatory word against Bilal Rabah, when the prothet heard about it, he told the Arab Makkan Muslim that he was still living in the time of Ignorance (PreIslamic ignorance time, Jahalliyah), and that Islam should have helped the heart of this man to leave that period.

The Makkan Arab Muslim, put his head on the hot sand as a sign of regret and humility towards Bilah Rabah and requested forgiveness while asking him to step on his head, the part of his body which he used to insult or annoy him. Bilal bin Rabah then said than he could not step on the head that prostrate to Allah. You see, I tell you these many parts of the Qur'an and Sunnah and story between the brotherhood of Islam in the first 3 generations for one simple reason: When you want to look at Islam, these are your best Prisms. The best is the Prophet and his companions.

One thing I can assure you is this, no Muslim can use the Qur'an or Sunnah/hadith to Justify having any slaves, especially from those who are not at war with you. Muhammad adopted his slave, Zaid even before he became a Prophet.  And when adoptions became unislamic, it was these two, the Prophet and Zaid who Allah used for the revelation.

Now, what the Muslims and non Muslims, Arabs and non Arabs did after the prophets of their times left the world stage, could not be blamed on the prophet or the religion, (and I categorically state that Moses was not a Jew by religion and Jesus was not a Christian by religion while Muhammad was a Muslim by religion) except the individuals who participated in any evil deeds. For example, we realise, even today that the Arabs are not 100% Muslims. We have the coptic christians, from the coptic people and others in Arab region: I believe that the whole of Asia minor (Middle east) is part of greater Africa, prior to Sueze Canal. We even have Jews among them: Now tell me are you certain that from among the Arabs who traded in Slavery of Africans and from among the Africans who participated, are there no non Muslims among them?

What what you people are doing is just blanketedly covering people with your assertions though groundless. But as long as you continue to repeat it, somehow it will stick. I do know about the Mauritanian slavery of black people by the Arabs which is on going right now. But are the African doing about it: NIgeria, etc who are blacks and seeing in their own continents, while they themselves are Muslims doing about it? I have a very close friend from Mauritanian, who is one of the major Pular (Fulani) community organisers. The efforts of these ordinary people should be commended. But there is no single Muslim on earth that can bring a single verse of the Qur'an or hadith to proof the acceptance of Slavery.

@pcicero

I truly like your spirit and i must confess that i would really want Focused to do more on Xtianity for balanced judgement. the mormon description of Blacks was part of my Long Essay in the university_i wrote on the "Growth of Mormonism in Nigeria". Infact, it was compelled to change it and now it's in Africa looking for converts- erstwhile devils. to say the truth, the Great Religious/ Arabic view of a black man is not gratifying, just like the Whites, (try finding out) but we Africans have resisted this in various ways. But we seem to be apathetic towards the Arabs. why? because their religion allowed our forefathers to maintain their harem of wives, yes and still keep part of their animist religion?  I am not a religious bigot, but i believe in the African spirit which God had His reasons to create and we'll resist any attempt by any race to make us feel inferior, either overtly or covertly

Islam is not the religion of Arabs! The last Kalifah was not an Arab and the next one, inshaAllah may not be an Arab! There is no harem in Islam. Most muslims are married to just one wife. But as we all know, different people with different appetite. Where is animist allowed in Islam? Islam came to destroy all kind of evil ways; worship and behavior.
 
@SysUser

Unforunately I must say that It would be a miracle if the great ones do not discount your research as mere slandering, they great ones themselves know the truth (hence why they make it difficult for a a great one to convert away from the great religion).

It is rather sad that despite the evidence of historical records and present day events, we africans still don't know our right from our left,
Christ does entail one race being superior over another, yet a lot of black men have been blackmailed into thinking that the slave trade was the andywork of christianity.

Look regardless of your sad songs, One human under any oppression is One too many. No slavery is okay. Afterall, you have so many more verses of the Bible talking about slavery, oppression and total decimation of peoples that you will ever find in the Qur'an. Grow up and discuss matters with stronger backbone! I dislike lackies/slackers.

One thing is for sure we have a little thing in common with arabs (penchant for violence and sexual orges) thus it is easier for a black man to be a a great one than for a blackman to be Christian.
One thing is for sure, the battle has already being won by Christ, we are just here to do job while we are alive as Christians and then go back to enjoy the victory.
Even a mad man knows that Black Slaves in America are seen today as "Black Americans", yet the same cannot be said of the population of "Black Arabs", a right thinking man would always question what he believes and why he believes it and why it is true,

I remember the Saudi Arabian US Ambassador, Banda bas, at the beginning of the Iraqi invasion, still going on now. Boy, did he look like a Black african, or a caribbean or your favorite people, 'the Black Americans!' I remember meetig some Kuwaiti people in 1998 in New York City. They came to propagate Isla in that 97/98 Ramadan. Some of then looked like my other brothers, right out of a page of my family history. If Jesus was not a Christian, I doubt if you know what Victory, really is. And yet, most Muslims I know around the world are married to just one woman.

At the end of the day, blackman's choices are influenced by:
1. Access to uncountable sex
2. Freedom to pay for sin with material things
3. Freedom to be able to do whatever they like so long as the can say ".aLL@H" told them to do so,
I must be very frank with you @focused, it would take a miracle for your post to have an effect on great ones simply because it is not a physical problem , it is a spiritual problem and I understand that the devil would not let his captives go free.

I bet from among the Muslim women, you have a larger head count and percentage who are still virgins, compared to the self righteous Christians. Yet the larger maturity of the Muslims marry just 1 wife. And some are still virgins into their late thirties and forties. But it is these Muslims who abandoned their beds at Night to pray or read or supplicate. But it is the the same who guard themselves from doing evil, because they fear and obey at the same time the punishment and commandment of the Creator while hoping for His Mercy in Love and reverence. Your arguments seem to come from ignorance.

It is interesting to note that , The Great Ones, enjoy the freedom of being welcomed by their Christian Neighbours but yet deny their Christian famiily or guest any right whatsoever,

What you want is that Makka and Madina open Churches, right? It will not happen. Not because the ignorant Arab Kings will not want that to happen. But they are aware that the Muslims the world over will not stand for that. Why? Allah forbids it in His Book.

SysUser (m) Let us understand that part of the slavery problem also emanated from this place quote below:
What the Arabs and Europeans have done is just a  fufillment of prophecy, although one is tempted to judge them based on how serious their slave trade were,
Gen 9:22  And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the unclothedness of his father, and told his two brethren without.
Gen 9:23  And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the unclothedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's unclothedness.
Gen 9:24  And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him.
Gen 9:25  And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Its easier for a Blackman to be a great ones than for a blackman to be a Christian,

As the Yoruba's say : "Esin the great religion'u , o gba ajo"

A 'good' Christian have spoken. What else are there to say. It is only in your Book that we have interent curses of people and inheritance of sins and blessings, whether they later behave goodly or evilly. But in the Qur'an, what we have is different. There is no permanent inheritance of sin, or a curse or blessings based on your birth or family relations. Your individual position of success or failure is based on your effort; a prerequisite for Mercy or Justice. Allah says in His Book; We (Allah alone) do not change the condition of a people (group or individual) unless they/he begins to change it by their/his/her own hand (personal effort). I wonder what your Yoruba statement means here; Ajoo in what sense? I am a Yoruba and a Muslim; I should be familiar with this better than you, who is a KUFFAR (keferi).

SysUser (m)[Quote] As the Yoruba's say : "Esin the great religion'u , o gba ajo"
no thanks to the new nairaland islamophilic environment the statement above should have been:
As the Yoruba's say : "Esin 'i.s.L.A.M'u , o gba ajo"[/quote]What 'ajo' that you guys are talking about? Allah says that He is the One by His deed for those who belief in good faith are led from darkness (Babalowo issues and other ills, including Christianity and Judaism, Buhddism, etc) to light (Islam the only way of Success). Allah says in His book that who ever choose any other religion has has failed indeed, because such a religion will not be accepted. It will be thrown back to his face. Allah says that He had completed His favor on Mankind and chose Islam for mankind as the religion, that is acceptable.

Please what do you mean by your AJO? The nation of islam does not qualify to be called Muslim/within the religion of Islam. Yet they called themselves just that. We can clearly see how label can be applied, even the substance is different. The tenets of Islam is first Belief in One God while shuning all others and disbelieving in them and that Muhammad is the last of all the Messengers and prophets. The second is pray the 5 prescribed daily prayers, at least. The next is zakat, and the fourth is Fast in the month of Ramadan and the last is going to Hajj. Now, have you ever seen a Nation of islam person before in your entire life? I have and many of the orthodox Muslims who are black in America today, came from them. I have seen many of their temples, a name that is unIslam. I have even tried to enter some. They have an arrangement of something similar to Church setting. That apart from the name there is nothing Islamic about them. They preach with the Bible and not Qur'an. They do not pray 5 times a day. And no ramadan fast for them either.

Worse than the nation of Islam are those who call themselves the 5%ers and even others led by Dr. York in the days in Bushwick section of  Brooklyn. Please speak about the things you know.

@Therationa: The Issue here is not about 'Crusade' against you. But a call to challenge you, on one hand answering your questions, but on the other hand allowing you the opportunity to respond to a few of our own. One thing I know is that the Christians, Jews and Muslims belief in something or somethings (in the case of the 3 in 1 god of the Christian), higher than them. But you an atheist on the other hand do not believe in anything like that. You believe that you are an accident of nature (mother nature) or evolution as a result of big bang actio or as KAG will say it 'the Virtual particle Theory!' It just does not hold water.

Afterall, you are the one trying to prove that god does not exist.

@Therationa;

How does none come to achieve Salvation? Well, the bible is not very clear about this. I have just been reading the bible and came off with the following options;
Salvation through WORKS/LAW
Salvation through FAITH

Are both necessary and sufficient for salvation OR is it either alone necessary and sufficient for salvation.
Now, if you are a WOMAN it appears that these two are not sufficient for salvation, for there is a third pre-requisite for salvation; CHILDBEARING.

Those women who have never born a child are there excluded from salvation?
Is Salvation available to those who have never heard the message of Jesus? For instance, our forefathers in Africa 2000 years ago.
How about those who live today in places where the message of Jesus has not yet gotten to? For these people, is it worth taking the message of Jesus to them?

If you are an atheist, then your attachment to Christianity and its book, is not enough to be the Litmus for Salvation; for or against it. You need to include Islamic Book the Qur'an and even Jewish religion, etc.

In Islam your means of Salvation is SOLELY "Belief"" in God alone: That includes worshipping HIM alone. Believing in His Angels (an Unseen being), His Books and all His Messengers and Prophets. However, in the matter of the messenger/prophet, you need to represent your believe in all of them by the prophet that you live under his prophethood. In our present case, we are under the messengership/prophethood of Muhammad bin Abdallah.

Finally, good deed is an added quality, a supporting value to be able to receive salvation from God. For example, a person who does not have money will receive salvation if he has a good and correct belief and worships correctly, as indicated in the book that is current and contains how God should be worship. But a wealthy person needs to spend from his wealth in addition to true belief.

Read the Qur'an and we can discuss the matter of salvation in a better light.

@4Him:

Nonsense. I have never told a musl'im that his god does not exist . . . rather i have countered his silly argument that he is the same as the God of the bible.

The god of the bible, in Old Testament is One God. But when he got to New Testament, while Jesus was still preaching, it was still One God. But after jesus was raised up, all of a sudden he became 3! You are right. The Muslim God is Just One God and that make Him different in Stength and number from the last VERSION Of the BIBLICAL god; a progression we see from 1 in OT, and still continued in the early part of NT, but became 3 by the end of it. Multiple Personalily son, holy spirit and father.

you're putting the cart before the horse. You can't be debating the words of a God u don't believe in.

You claim this book contains nothibg but the words of the christian God, yet therationa have demostrated to you in other threads that even paul and co have their says in it. Unless you call these people God, then your Book is not truly 'word' of God! I do not see why therationa should convert to Christianity. If he leaves falsehood, he should be into a completely true religion.

Hey therationa, put Islam 'Qur'an' to your test and I will definitely respond to you. I will teach you about the process of revelations, etc.

that's true, but until you can convincingly show us that our belief in God is irrational we will continue to hold steadfastly to that belief.

To believe in God is rational. But your process of belief is what is not rational. Especially when you velieve in three personality god! He is a son, being delivered by a woman, like every other child. Born weak and helpless and needed his mother for nourishment, etc. hen a passive holy ghost god and then a father god. Is this worth believing in? I am clear about it, no!

@4Him

some people also claimed they would never forgive God for allowing the tsunami so what is your point here?

It shows their poor/anorexic faith in God. However in Islam we believe fully that all things come from God; the good and the bad. All of it is under Qadar (Kadara is Yoruba). To actually Question God is to actually be out of Isla. The Almighty says in His Book; It does not befit a believer to have any opinion after Your Lord and His messenger have decided on any matter. All you need to say is I hear and I obey.

neither was it what Paul, Stephen, Peter, James, John and I worship.

I wonder how god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit came about? Who invented this idea that they call Trinity? What does it mean, even though we do not see it in the Bible? How many persons in Trinity: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, etc? Please give me a number and don't beg my question. What is the relationship of Jesus: god with others or not? How many of them? Son of Mary alone and Prophet?

Moses was a jew. What are you talking about? How could he be the jewish leader and not be a jew in religion?
Jesus was not a christian . . . well the term "christian" comes from "Christ-like", a term used to describe the early disciples.
Open your eyes of understanding.

Moses was not a Jew. Moses was a Child of Israel. He led the Children of Israel. The Children of Israel consisted of 12 Tribes: One of these tribes is the tribe of Judah, Who are really the Jews. After Solomon's son reign, the total Children of Israel was broken to two groups,: Judah and Israel. It was much later that the Jews (Judah tribe) absorbed the other 11 tribes. I guess as a consequence and outcome of one of the several times they were conquered and decimated by their enemies.

You have no excuse for claiming that you and Jews have anything to do with Ibrahiimic concept of worship of God. You can only claim it, without any substantive support, whatsoever. I guess in the same way you claim, rather coined Christians/Christianity from Christ-like. But are you Christ-like? Give proofs! Afterall, Jesus said in mark 12 Verse 29: Oh Israel, your God and my god is But One Lord! Who is Your God and Lord according to Jesus statement here? Who is wrong when Jesus said that his God is also your God and that God is One Single Lord, while you have even Jesus as god alone with holy ghost and then turning yourself to be a child of god, since you have god the father? How many gods have you in your concept? Is it different from Jesus' concept?

@Bamowolo:

Quote from: bawomolo on Today at 08:38:09 PM
judaism,christianity and the great religion all share the same abrahamaic God. christianity and the great religion are both slight deviations from judaism u guys are really ignorant and have no clue about the holy books u read.

No we do not truly have the same Ibrahiimic God. First the God of the Jews, is not a general/universal God, but a tribal God. From the skin of it, Judaism pretends to be Monotheist, but in close observation, you will notice that their perception of God, is at best not truly a Creator-created relationship. Have you ever not seen a Jew questioning God. I remember a young Lawyer saying that he will never forgive god for allowing Holocaust to occur!

Now the case of the Christians is very apparent: Three god(s) or personality was not what Ibrahiim worshipped.

Shoud I say anything about the Muslim: Their reference of god is unparallel. Finally, Ibrahiim was not a Jew or Christian (By tribal and by religion), a true believer in One God and He was not one of those who associated anything with God!


@4Him:

no they don't you tool. Christianity is the new covenant, judaism is the old covenant . . . islam only piggy-backed on the christian concept of the abrahamic God to lend some legitimacy to its fraud.

Thats coming from your own mouth 'F"(tool!). Whats there in Christianity to Copy or Piggy back on? Nothing! Al Rahman says in His Book: Enter 'Silmi,' Completely, and do not follow the footsteps of the Satan, for inded he is an open enemy to you. Al Raheem further states tha all prophets and messengers are believers, Mumiin(s). Moses for example was not a Jew in religion and definitely, Jesus was not a Christian.

Give full response, not the poor and contaminated Bandage you are giving lately. The sore is not healing properly.

@Gamine:

God is a spirit and not a sensual being
He has no Feelings
i need someone to disprove this and quote me anywhere!

God the Almighty Allah the Creator has feelings: Afterall, He laid down the Laws and discriminates between right and wrong: He provides ample examples of rewards for good and punishments for evil. The greatest of evil deeds is disbelieving in His existence and or associating anything along with Him. God creates Paradise as a reward for those who He bestows His Mercy on and Hellfire for those He will enact Justice upon. Of course He has feelings.

@Therationa:

1)  What is the epistemic method for determining truth, knowledge or the nature of god?

Have you ever been able to proof the non existence of God, you esteemed friend? At best you are not certain that all that you see around you just happened by accident. Then the possibility that your limited knowledge of your enviroment, is a proof that you do not know everything, or do you? Then Gods nature is in what you do not know.  And you do not know whats happening in the next room to you. Let me show you how poor your knowledge of yourself is: you have never seen your back, except if you set up mirrors to give you imagery of it. And then, it will be the opposite and your brain will have to adjust to it. If your knowledge about yourself is limited how then you think you can disprove the unseen? Afterall, you are not more than a semen and an egg! And truth is the absent of falsehood. And truth is always one, but falsehood can be many: each time changing to adjust to new ideas. Knowledge that is beneficial is very direct and is always complete according to the needs of the one who seeks it.

2)  

Can these methods be validated?

Sure. If you put each to a test, with complete desire to find truth. But of course you must devorce yourself, first of all preconceived notions, that could be detrimental to your getting the truth directly. For example; when I was on the part of cerifying that God is ever existing, I first asked myself this Question: How did I come about? Then I came to the time of the first man, Adam. I dis covered that Adam did not come from Ape as the darwinist will want us to believe. I asked myself, if I were from Ape, why hasn't another Ape become a man since then? If I were not from Ape, then the whole Darwin idea is dead and I must have been created anew. Then I must have a Creator. I called mine Allah, because I am a Muslim and I believe He is One: Indivisible.

3)

How do we get to know god's attributes and how are we sure it is the REAL god and not some other impersonator?

One of the most important thing is His name: Allah. It is His proper name. Then He lets us know at least 99 of His attributes. One of them is Alqahr: The Irrestitable; simple means everyone need Him and He need no one. Another is that everyone will perish, including all known and unknown beings; except Him. And He is the Lord of the day of Judgement. He also says He is the only One who can protect and the only One who can punish (Both, in truth).

4)  

Does person experience constitute an objective method of assessing evidence?

If you divest yourself from all that you have known, then you should have no problem with your heart letting you know the truth. You should try finding truth yourself.

@Nwando:

This girl,na so so love love
like your poem.

But gamine is offtrack.

Just like John macCain is offtrack; And I am not
a dem. lol. I want my boy barack to squash every
one of them; her in the primary and him, in the
general.

@4Him: Omo boy, kilon sele? Two apologies in a row to an atheist? Thats unacceptable. I don't wanna read about the third please. Make me happy: I will support you against an atheist anytime. However, you need to defend the Bible, otherwise jusmp to my camp. We are waiting to receive you.

@Stillwater: Defend your Book, instead of simple capitulation.

@Nwando: The Lucifer label is not good enough here. Maybe in other situation/setting. Please argue your point against Therationa. I think he will kill the Psych people with though provoking ideas: Nigeria can't take a person like him. We will transfer him to your part of 'God's own country.' I think his immigration status will floor the Scotland yard guys (M15 and M16). And no costable will dare to come close. He will have the support of the Anglican bishop. lol.

The condition (the true story) of Jesus is more than what is in the Bible. Infact it is a very different story The Bible did not tell us how his mother marry was able to survive, the Mosaic law of adultery/fornication, in the hands of the elders and others, while pregnant and delivered jesus, without a human husband and human father (for her and Jesus, respectively). How did she escape their intent to carry out the punishment, which they played out later on a woman when Jesus began his Prophetic ministry? Finally, where is the Gospel of Jesus which he preached all over the places he went?

For your answer you have to go to the Qur'an. But it seemed as if you have eliminated even the thought of this Book as a reference source, when it comes to Jesus issue. I based my statement on how you worded your intro of this thread. You may correct me if i am wrong.

@OlaAdegbu:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
    21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

This is more of a tribalist god that True God, the Creator of all Things. From 21 above, we can see that some will claim that they glorify God, but truly they do not. It is only in their wrong imagination that they think that they do. See that the Creature is different and separate from God? No human, that ever walked this heart, whether born of just one parent, or brought about with any parent, could ever be God. They are all creatures.

I asked everyone, especially the Christians among mankind, when you truly have this verse 25 in your Book along with Mark 12 Verse 29, why then you serve Jesus and call him your God?

.Romans 1:16-32

@Stimulus: Talk to Seun Osewa. I did not make it up. He is the one running a program to change "Muslim" to whatever. Yet I am not a Christian, Jew or other form of disbelieving.

@Nferyn:

It was never my intention to correct anyone. The only thing I wanted to do was clarifying that atheism does not necessarily imply the active rejection of deities and that you can be both an atheist and an agnostic at the same time.

Both classes of disbelief will end up in Hellfire, on the day where there is no where to hide and things are laid bare. You may not believe it now. I bet a fetus in the mother's womb will not believe a there is something called an automobiles, even though, in the womb, it can hear the hunking and the other sounds that come from the running engines. By the way am a Muslim.

@JeSoul:

imhotep said "lasting impact", not temporary accomplishments or deeds - there's a big difference between the two.
do you think the money, fame, philantrophy, philosphy will matter on the last day? No it won't. Only what is done for Christ and in the name of Christ holds value in the sight of God. Everything else is righteousness that is as filthy as rags and utterly worthless in the view of eternity.

I don't wanna burst your Bubbles; God is the Decision Maker on that day. Everyone else, including Jesus (as), will have to account for their responsibility to God, alone.

@Dafidixone: You just proved my point: Instead ofeverything god, like the Hindus, Christianity limited its god to three.

But wonders into doing everything paganic: like this valentine (Dung!). lol; I missed you, too. Ifs been a while.

@Stimulus:

I was actually hoping to see an example where it might have been so practised 'properly', as I don't know of any. However, how do you suppose it is supposed to be "practised"? How realistic could it ever be hoped that a coherence is maintained in every situation as well as guaranteeing delivery of promises to non-Muslims - especially in view of the fact that no society has seen a "proper" set of ethics from Sharia for over 12 centuries?!?

Islam of the Prophet, (as), who Allah completed a favor on mankind through, by chosen Islam as the only acceptable way/religion, has been around for over 1400 years. I had asked that you should look to the proper examples in the time of the first 3 generations.

And the result after looking at all those is. . .?!?

When in doubt go back to it!

I'm sorry, but that sounds like an umbrella excuse to cover the core questions here. If Muslim scholars themselves are unable to refine their understanding of Sharia after reading the Qur'an and Hadiths for over 12 centuries, is it stimulus as a non-Muslim in 2008 that will be in a better position to explicate Islamic jurisprudence for the whole Muslim ummah? That must be such a task! But no thanks, I'm not in a hurry to grow long white beards!

You refine only unpure/impure materials(eg, Sugar, Crude oil to get all types of finished and semi finished products). Sharia is unlike that. It is the practitioners who should refine themselves to meet the challenges that Sharia throws at them to be better people.

Ha! Where did I make that inference? Did you not agree with me that it has not been PROPERLY practised in any society in any country around the world? Am I missing some connecting dots here?

First, I never have said that it was never practised before. I had continued to tell you that the first 3 generations of Islam, is a very good example. The perfect example is in the first generation when the master was among the Muslims, to humanise, the embodiment of sharia for all to see. Your inference is as follows: (Posted by: stimulus
Insert Quote
@olabowale,
Quote from: olabowale on Today at 01:27:33 AM
@Stimulus: The guys in Nigeria are not practicing Sharia properly.

Where has Sahria ever been practiced 'properly'? I think your comments are more of an excuse to apologize for the failure of Sharia to stand up to the coherence of contemporary thinking.) Please pay attention to the "EVER," used here and try not to deny it, please.

C'omon now, baba olas! You're beginning to sound frantic! Who has ever claimed that the Bible was lost? I could even send you a free copy - just request and fiam, it's at your door!

It is not the name that makes it what it is. The name is just the Title, if the content was ever doctored! The Bible is lost because, on one hand the exact text was already change, from what it was when the prophets were there on earth, to receive and then preached what was received. Then corrupted because apart from these changes, you now have a complete text and then additional information, from those who did not have authority as prophets and no reveelation is given to them anyway. Their claimed inspirations are swollen with personal ideas, a coy way embellish and not telling the truth.

And thanks so very much for admitting that Muslims have "corrupted" the Sharia - which I then take as confirmation of the fact that we can't even trust what the Qur'an says about it too!

The corruotion of the Sharia here is the way the individuals practise it. That is external in nature. For example, this morning I was talking to an African Muslim, who does not pracice covering herself properly. Now that is the corruption I am talking about. The Qur'an was a it was revealed to the Prophet. It is an oral tradition. language is known as oral, and writing it down is just after the fact. You can not deny the authenticity of the Qur'an, even as you may refuse to accept it. That is another matter entirely.

"Sharia is intact" - from what is left after after admitting that Muslims have corrupted it above? Is this your own version of a lost Sharia?

Sharia is never lost and i do not have my own version. However it is the corruptions of the people that may make you doubt any part of it. Let me show you an example: Allah says that illicit sex is forbidden; Yet when they arreste and tried women in Sharia North, they do not remember the man! Afterall illicit sex is not by the woman alone, in these cases. Thats the corrupt and sad part of it all.

Oh puh-leease! How many things have we not read already about "the great prophet" in several threads on this Forum alone, not to mention several other blogs? Wetin make Usman Muhammed send his "friendly advice" to Nairaland?

Pick up a book from the library or a bookstore! Men you disappoint me.

It's been a hard and long search. So please name them.

The prothet (as), Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab, Uthman Affan, Ali abi Talib, Zaid Thabit, Bilah Rabah, Hassan, Hussain, Shuaib Al Roma, Salman Al Farsi, Abdallah AbdalSalam al Yahuud, etc. (Aisha, Hafsah, Mariam, etc).

Thanks for the example of Ribadu. Which Sha-Governor is better than him with clean hands?

I do not know Nigeria too well. But where are the Christian Ribadus? I am sure the Governors are all filthy, all of them, including the Christians. Now lets have 5 Million or more Ribadus, to clean up Nigeria.

@Babyosisi;

You have 2 wives and still can't figure us women out.
I wonder how you cope
My hot and cold attitude as you call it tells you I'm unable to hold grudges.
What you see is what you get.

Is not that you can not hold grudges; you have demostrated your ability with your anger about Islam. It predates 911. But that day tips you over and you have not recovered yet. And about my unable to figure you out is that while Jazz music is being played, you were doing the merenge and then changed to lumbada. Neither resembles a possible jazz step. This is my problem with you. I understand: Women are made from the bent rib. (lol)! Further, am still growing. My knowledge about women is on going and maybe when they are 4, I think I will begin to get it; the different personalities and all. (I am a lover and not at all a fighter, unless when its essential. I am a human being and not an Angel!)

Where has Sahria ever been practiced 'properly'? I think your comments are more of an excuse to apologize for the failure of Sharia to stand up to the coherence of contemporary thinking.

First am not apologising for the likes of babangidas, etc. Rather I am unhappy that they behaved badly, while carrying Islamic identity. You are right, that presently, there is no place on earth where Sharia is practised as it is supposed to be practiced. However, look directly to the first three generations of the Muslims. The beginning of Islam, the generation of the prophet and his companions, the folowing two generations as well. If you wanna know about Sharia, read the Qur'an, and the hadith and the history of the people in these 3 generations. To say that Sharia was not ever practiced, is to simply tell us that there was no Sharia at all. You could say that the Muslims have lost or corrupted it, but not in the same manner that the Bible is lost or corripted. Sharia isintact, but just practiced properly, while Bible is simply corrupted and the 100% quality of it, is lost forever.

Sharia in itself does not (and has never) complete(d) a society. I haven't seen or read any Moslem being able to demonstrate its functionality in any society in any country. It has always been a case of excuses where such a concept has failed repeatedly in its application to bring about desired results.

Afterall you have never read anything about the prophet of Islam (as) and his companions.

Who is going to do the arrests? Please tell me: which of the Sharia Governors are not robbers themselves - are they not also deeping their sharia hands into the National Treasury and looting the coffers of their own States? How have such Sha-governors developed their own States and bettered the lives of their state indigenes? What are your indices for measuring the integrity of the Sha-governors over those who you want arrested?

First you have to have good Muslims, who are honest and not lukewarm at best. Who makes any arrest in Nigeria? The Police in their corruption laden mind? Remember Ribadu, a Muslim man? Lets start from there and better him.

What do you understand by the term "atheist"?

If you can't reason through the question, then all else you have written do not even sound a gong.

Stimulus, I thought I had indicated that my almost atheist label had indicated that you, as a Christians does not truly believe that God exist, in His Singly entirety as an Entity. Except that you believe that He exist in the same way as Hindus. But limits your Multiplicity to just 3, instead of the uncountable form the Hindu thinks He exists. Since your concept of His existence is warped, it could be construed, because of its gravity as not a belief of His existence at all!

Muhammedans are atheist too just like christians.

Your first Mistake Therationa. There is nothing in Islam called Muhammedan(s) or any derivative of it. I will like you to explain how you come about the Muslims being labelled as atheists by you? If Muslims are atheists, who then believe that God exist as He truly does?

A young great one will be waiting for your Aisha ( when you have her; InshaAllah). Or bring out the Nigerian girl you have been hiding! lol.

Whoa! I guess when you type Islam, it automatically turns to 'Great One!" I like it, if it is genuinely labelled as such. Thanks Seun. My brothers and Sisters in Islam, please increase you dua that the light of Islam should enter his heart, and the hearts of all his loved ones. Amiin. that goes for all of the non Muslims of Nairaland.

@Babyosisi: I can't get a handle on your mindset. For a minute there, you were made as hell and you couldn't take it any more. And all of a sudden you were like cool with it as a cucumber. David, do you understand her hot and cold attitude; I don't speak Christian. Relax, Islam is already in your heart, let it flow. Let freedom reign.

@Babyosisi: I see a lot of patient for the LED Technology medical Treatment.

@Stimulus: The guys in Nigeria are not practicing Sharia properly. Though a beginning, never the less not complete. They should arrested those National Treasury Thieves and robbers, especially the ones who called themselves " EVIL Genius", etc. There hands should have been chopped off. They are disgrace to Islam. The lukewarm Muslims; very hypocritical!

Sharia, in those states have a long way to go. The law covers every Muslim, equally, without favor based on societal classifications. None of them mean anything to Allah. Don't make the deficiencies of the Muslims be your guide for refusing to enter Islam.

@4Him: And I miss you too, David. I suddenly realised that I was like a broken man, dejected, since there was no off the wall, blame all of it on Islam responses, from you, in the past fee days. I guess the muslims of England either bribed the Archbishop, or threatened him or some kind of arm wringing to make him suggest the possibility of Sharia in England. David, this Archbishop has got some nerves! Right.

Aburo, there was nothing the rag tagged Muslim Minority of England did to the Archbishop. It was his Creator, Allah the Almighty the Only One who directed his heart. Lets call a shape a spage, based on its shape and function.

I was thinking about somebody. And bam!, your face appeared, except I have to impose the face of this diehard Ikuale Christian woman, in London, who was a friend for many years. She almost married me, until I said I can not marry a Kafer. And she said she would not come to Islam, so I told her to go fly a kite. She should have been living under Sharia. I could have said the same thing to you, if I had met you many many years ago. I know you have a thing for Yoruba Muslim; lol.

The Issue of Sharia in England, is a clear indication that the Hadith of Sayidina Muhammad about Islam entering every land, is true. You see how natural it is: Even the Archbishop of canterbury, the 'Spiritual leader' of the world Anglicans can't help it. Afterall, his heart belongs to the his Creator.

@Stimulus; Don't be hatin! If you hate me using the almost, then remove it. Thats exactly what I mean. Finally, I do not hate everything Christian; My mother used to be one. Until Allah made the light of belief entered her heart. And I love a Christian woman, once. Now, all I wanna do is bring everyone of ya, into the fold of Islam. I know thats a tall order. But withallah, everything is possible.

And this guy bawomolo hads acute symptoms of MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER. He is deficient of good a known single personality. T need a lot of Doctors, both general practitioners *Babyosisi, do you know any, lol) and highly trained specialists!

@Babyosisi:

can't you people make your posts shorter.
Who has time for grading term paper

No. But I missed you. Muhammad or Aisha is here yet? And if you can't read stop trying to pretend! This is a matter that is very important to us all; People who believe that there is God, altogether, against the first class disbelievers: Atheist and Agnostics!

@KAG:

God (capital "g" is a subset of gods. Deja vu.

You sometimes, and very often regress to that One track mind: You confirm, each time that you are not far from what I thought you are; machine or machine line entity. lol. I ask you for a very simple and direct information; If you did not find God (a singular, but most majestic than 'gods; which could mean anything), at the end of it, what exactly did you find, instead you shamelessly begged the Questions. I did not ask you the difference between God and gods. And I did not ask you if God is a subset or not of gods.

I simply ask you, if you did not find anything there, then you must have found nothing. Then what is behind the something that we call the Big Bang? You see KAG, you seen to be going around in circle (chase the proverbial dog tail), and you could have boldly answer my question? Again if nothing is what you find, then how does nothing becomes the something that was the first thing; The Big Bang Particle? At the end of it all, when you finally have the strength to answer my direct question, boldly agreeing that it is nothing, but something that is behind the big bang, you will find "GOD," there! And not gods, which could be anything!

TRY again, KAG. I believe you can finally do it! And the deja vu, is on you, because you refuse, again to answer any direct question, except tap dancing all over the places. Again there is my question, please provide an answer;If you say no, I am going to assume that you are saying that when you get to the bottom of it, you found nothing. If this is so, I hereby ask you, how did nothing became something? First start with whereever pleases you and you are comfortable in; either the initial matter that is the central matter of the Big Bang 'Unproven hypothesis,' or you  a more complex matter than that initial matter.

@Bawomolo:

Posted by: bawomolo  
Insert Quote
What does your 'tomorrow' holds? You truly don't know it, yet you are preparing for that 'tomorrow.'

this is a vague question. what exact time-frame is "tomorrow".  what i do today would have a huge impact on what happens to me "tomorrow"( i still don't know if tomorrow is days or years). we won't have projections, goals and ambitions if we didn't have an idea of what to expect for "tomorrow". again we are dealing with an alleged entity and not time.  i can influence my tomorrow but u have little to influence on something u have conceded as unknown.  a personal relationship with an entity, means u are familiar with it. no one is familiar with the unknown, this is where oxymoron comes in. how do u communicate with this GOd by the way if u can't comprehend it??

I do not have three godheads in One! Now, thats oxymoronic, if there is one along with disbelieving that God exist.

actually it isn't oxymoronic to believe that God doesn't not exists if theists aren't able to establish where God came from or the nature of God.  an abstract entity like God is imaginary and can't be quantified. circular reasoning is abundant among theists

Initially, you proposed that it is oxymoronic to believe in an unknown quantity. When I finally put you in the box of somebody who truly fit into the 'Oxymoron,' label, because you believe in time, the future kind; eg, tomorrow, which you are hoping for that it will come, yet you ask me, a truly oxymoron question above, about time frame concerning tomorrow? You truly argued against yourself? You should have known that tomorrow is in the future time frame. A an unknown quantity, but something to hope for!

Yet when tomorrow comes, there is yet another tomorrow. And tomorrow does not runs out, until after the world ends. I am sure that you know that the world will end, don't you? Why, because the world is created. Whereas, God will not have a end time, because He is not created and therefore, is outside any and all controlling elements that we are subjected to, eg time, etc!

The issue here is this: Lets talk about time. Can it be measured accurately without other elements which are the basis of it, eg the rotation and revolution of the earth on its in its orbital path: 1 day which is approximately a complete rotation of the earth, while 1 year is approximately 265 or so rotations of the earth, but an approximate 1 revolution of the earth around the Sun. You can not in abstraction calculate time, except that you relate it to something(s). Hence you have to accept the existence of God, relative to what you see, feel and other unknowns.

For example it is safe to say that the Sun rises or set, based on visual testimonies in the morning and evening, respectively. Further, when the space craft in space, could simply move through any give 24 hour period, with the same speed as the rotation of the earth, the Sun wll remain constant, hence, you will realise that the Sun does not set, ever and it does not rise, ever! So, the visual testimony is based on incomplete knowledge alone, whille on the surfae of the earth.

Since your knowledge is limited about the true nature of things, there are still elements that indicate that is that Special Super Mover of everything; That MOVER is GOD.

@KAG; I see somebody is giving you more than you can handle. You have resulted into hypothesis, theories, etc. But I am happy to know that you said laws are not answers to everything. At least you are honest. So keep it up. By so doing you will realise that there are still somethings that we have no laws for, yet, because they are unknown or we are just in the earliest, immatured stages of our understanding of them. Yet, according to you there is at least something that will be outside and and all laws, even when we finally have maturity of knowledge to develop laws for evrything we know. Take for example, Angels, Jinns are both creations of God. Yet they will fall outside our known laws; For example, Angels can have x numbers of wings, based on a particular responsibility it will have at the x winged time. It does not mean tht it will have x numbers of wings if it were sent to do y thing! Angel can come as a man, yet it not a man. Hence, it is not governed by human laws; it does not eat even when it appears as human. Yet the Creator oif this super being, is God! How then do you expect that God will be known to you, in a physically tangible manner to you, which I thibk is the only reason you have this notion of His non existence.

Finally, the virtual particle which you mentioned is does labelled as such by the person who postulated the idea of its existence. My worries is that this person has only used his limited kniwledge to spoon feed us his thought. Since we know less about this 'Virtual particle,' before hand, we have no choice, for the sake of scientific advancement to at least consider his thought. It is in the same vein that people have always believed in the smallest of particle, which you said has no weight and size, yet gave up a Big Bang sound, when it exploded. Since is Sum total of its Kinetic (Energy transfer) will be equal to potential/initial energy. Or rather the total energy, using simple Albert Einstein equation of Energy is directly equal to Mass multiplied by Constant squared. We will realise that we have a small mass here and a constant 'c' squared, which is unknown, at the time of the bang, we will realise that the energy that it had potential before then was not enough to make such a bang noise and the small weight, if it has any at all, is not capable to be this much, the Billions and Trillions of massive wight that we have now. It simply points out that the small matter that was involved in the Big Bang, and the resultant masses, energy and forces, since then, have differed scientific reasoning and any kinda of logic.

I submit to you KAG, that there was a Causation (An Entity that makes it spring to action), at the time of the Big Bang, Who made this simple, and insignificant matter go under this bang, and continue to react, as if there is a constant stoking of its enrgy source. Inshort, an saying that there is a MOVER who brought about the process and continues to make the process go without stopping.

@Stimulus: Almost, atheist: REason is that while hardcore atheist does not believe in the existence of God, Christian made Him to multiple gods. Just like the Hindu, who has god for every thing. And the Hindu even is unashamed because of his usage of body parts and animals to denote god(s). The Christian just limit his god(s) to father, which connotes a family (human aspect of interrelationship, having a sexual underpinnings), son a somewhat lesser than father in authority, and the passive holy ghost. But the catholic begs the mother/wife (Mary) the mother of Jesus, to appeal to father and or son.

It is the above that makes it 'almost,' category. It is just a shade different from outright, templed idol worshipping.