₦airaland Forum

+Osisi: Go apply for the Job. Woman can be a collector.

You know that Akbar does not belong to Jesus. Stop fronting. Go sleep. Ndo. You had a rough day. Good Night.

At least we all agree that there is One God! The hypothesis of 3 godheads in One God is unproveable! Hence any book that contain that idea is the wrong book!

@dequeen:

The Scripture made it clear "No one knows the hour when it will happen" We should be ready at all time.

This does show that Jesus who you claimed to be god or god the son or 1 or the 3 godheads, does have a limited knowledge. Afterall he does not know the hour, othrwise, he would have stated it. But God knows. Hence Jesus is not God!

@Opsy

His commandments.4 it is written in da bible itself:

You are wrong. It is in the Qur'an. The Only true guidance.

@Olowo tee: This God, is not Jesus, is He?

@Dawid:

There is a dead sea scrolls bible on Amazon.com if u can shell out $70.

Before you talk about an adulterated bible make sure you have allah's copy at hand.

Amazon.con is where the real Bible is! But Dawid continues to Parade the NL Board with "other Bible!"

Dawid, let me help you, what are essential and worth keeping MINUS Paul/Saul and the likes in the BIBLE are alread in The Qur'an: Laa ilaha ila llah! When you go outside this BOUNDARY, you have strayed so far! Example is the three in One deal of godheads!

@Dawid:

Did you know that there is something called the "dead sea scrolls"?

Why is that not your Bible? Is that the Oldest materials, ever for the Jews and the Christians? Afterall, was it not damaged already; decays and fire/heat, before it came to discussed in the public? If it was damaged, how can you then confirmed a complete unaduterated content? Did Paul writings occur/present in the 'Dead Sea scroll' as you claimed it to be the 'ORIGINAL?'

By the way, how did you get the accents on a, i and d, in Dawid? Its interesting. lol.

@Luvus:

where are you referencing from? give us so we can verify what u say

Read the Introduction to the Science of Qur'an, by Jamal Garabbozo. Read the History of the the Kalifahs: Abu Bakr, Umar Khattab and Uthman Affan. They are available on the Internet. Or you can buy the books, in most Islamic Bookstores, unless you live in the Boomduck, there is one near you! I hope you have the strength to get it and the conviction to read.

@ola
did u not read my post?? here it is again
dear babs

on a serious note, we are not denying that we don't have various versions, translations but we also want u to also accept same that MUSLIMS HAVE VERSIONS, TRANSALTIONS AND EDITIONS. then from there we can continue and we believe since we (including u muslims) have agrreed on that point, then lets continue else u have no bases to accuse the bible as confused etc

so stop recycling questions, remember osisi or is it pilgrim showed u that in the koran major differences abound in version of the koran. please stop babbling and just say in plain words YES WE HAVE VARIOUS VERSIONS, TRANSALTIONS, EDITIONS OF THE KORAN SHIKAANAn else all u requesting for doesnt arise

You are so naive. Qur'an is in Pure Arabic. That is stated in Surah Yusuf. Go and read it and get educated. Qur'an is an ORAL document! So in English word, Writing down an Oral document does not really make it a written document. Even in Yoruba language, we have many ways of writing Segun, or Shegun! You see, since you never had a single inkling of whats in your ORIGINAL BIBLE, your trying to bring Qur'an down to the level of your 'Corrupt or Lost' Book is useless. Before King James Commissioned his Bible, what were the 'Christians' using? Go back that far and get that to me, before I begin to lead you back to the truth, InshaAllah.

I w2ill immediately ask you to go and find me a Greek language Bible, that was in Circulation before KJV ever commissioned. Then if you can find that, I will tell you to go and find the Bible in the Roman Language before the Greek Language Version was ever commissioned. When you find that, I will send you to go get me Aramaic or Hebrew Bible, both semitic languages, what the tribes of those Bible Prophets spoke: eg Moses for his Torah, David for his Sabur and jesus for his Injil. Finally, I will ask you, was there any Torah, Sabur, and or Injil, before the Bible writers were 'Inspired?'

You have aBig Job ahead of you, Mister. Come on, get to it!

@+Osisi

Yes babs,the Holy Spirit has been in existence since creation
At creation,the Bible said the Spirit of God aka Holy Spirit moved over the face of the waters.
Several accounts in the Bible talk of the Sprit of God leading several prophets and judges and priests of old
however Joel and Ezekiel prophesied of the indwelling outpouring that'll only happen after the work of salvation is completed.
This happened in Acts of the apostles.

The Spirit of God aka Holy Spirit is an instrument of God, like 'the resident abunna' of the woman. (I have to shock you to reality, +Osisi!) Afterall, it the instrument that the woman can use at will! Or a more direct example, the staff of Moses. See the staff is not Moses but a tool that acts according to commands! Get real girl. And don't tell me tht I should let my better halves come to NL. They know about you already.

Now tell me about John 7:39 from your Muslim apologists site
where we know Christ was referring to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit as in the day of Pentecost and now.
You see how I predicted you well ?
But go ahead anyway,you're about to learn something from the people of da book just like Mo advised

The people of da book should learn a thing or two about Mark 12 Verse 29, first before coming to the Mumiin. Afterall, Qur'an already abrogated the book of the people of da book.

And the Baby should be named Muhammad or Ahmad if a boy or twins. Aisha or Hafsah if girl or twins. lol. I wish you well.

@All who have posted this far; [quote ;DFUNNY THREAD, But even if he knew about forgiveness, he might not be forgiven because JESUS BROUGHT THE RIGHT WAY TO LINK TO GOD TO THE WORLD, JOY TO THE WORLD JESUS REIGNS

You took the word right out of my mouth. All of you are naively funny. Was Jesus just standing idly doing nothing seeing his earthly Parents, Adanm and Even being suckered in to sin by ordinary Satan? Or Jesus was not there and therefore had no power to do anything about it? If he was there, he must not had any power to do anything, because it has been designed that Adam and Eve will sin, so that they can be sent to the earth, out of Paradise, for the process of procreation, worship/deed and death to occur, the prerequisite for Judgement day: Hell and Paradise as reward for worship/deed!

What you are saying about Jesus being a link, therefore concerning Adam and Eve is that Adam and Eve are probably not going to paradise, because they were not forgiven? How could Jesus be standing there to let Eve, a woman be deceived ad then in turn deceived Adam? How could Jesus be standing there and allow Adam to shift the blame on Eve, when he was supposed to be with her at all time? Afterall he did not have anything to do, except being a mate to her.

A simple observation of your entry, tells me that Jesus was not available, just like you and me! Further, God is not unjust to His creations. He had put forward a means of repentance for Adam and Eve's benefit. They repented and their repentance were forgiven. And a proof of that is that before Jesus ever came about from his mother's womb and then started his 'Gospel/good news,' there were people who had seek forgivenss. Tell me how did they know about how to seek acceptable forgiveness from God?

Adam didn't ask4 forgiveness. Anyway sha Jesus has help us. Glory be to God who gave us Jesus 2 die 4 us. hadn't be Jesus didn't come 2 this world. no hope of eternal life, but thank God 4 Jesus. Adam and Eve na u sabi!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank Allah the Almighty Creator that you have the inkling that God and Jesus are different and separate entities; One being the the Boss and master of the other, sending him on errands. My dear siste, before Jesus, if what you said about Jesus is true (but of course it is false), what happened to the fate of those who died before jesus? You have a big explanation to give, missy.


]

@geegee:

im not a christian nor a muslim but lately i don't know what is happening to me,after i read someone post encounter with Jesus changed my life. i was touched and i was wondering if it is real? i kept thinking about it for days. i am curios and want to know more of him. can all these hurt, abuse and pain i feel go away just like that? can he truly help me forgive those who hurt me and give me a new beginning? can he truly heal me of my blood disease? can he take away the feeling of anger,bitterness and revenge away?and give me a purpose and a focus? i mean i sense of direction? can he be trusted? because the once i trusted the most are the once that hurt me.

If you do not go directly to the God and Lord of Jesus, even if you are relieved of all the conditions that you listed above and even what you may have put aside, without telling a soul, you would have gotten temporary relieve! Permanent solution, in one shot to all problems, is with the Creator. And Jesus is not the Creator! I advice you to approach your Creator, without setting up an intermediary between the two of you. If you go to Jesus, you have not approached your Creator. It will be as if you have gone to a voodoo person, yet some get healed through them. The reason is that they have purchased evil because of lack of sincere belief! Look at China in their generally lack of believe in God. Look at Bill Gate, an atheist. Success or difficulty is not based on faith. But through success is in having the right and correct faith in God, in the way of non association, worship and good deed. Failure is an everlasting effect, starting from the time of death; If you associate anything with God! Christianity is association of Son, holy spirit/ghost with God the Almighty Creator. Think and please make the righ connection to your Creator!

Allah the Almighty is always ready to accept repentance from His creations!

@The poster:

[/quote]Here are the answers to January 2008 Bible Quiz:
1) How many days did it take God to create the Heaven and the Earth?
In 6 days.[quote]

How long was a day, how many hours, whats the yardstick for calculating a day: Midnight to Midnight, Sundown to sundown, what, from the Christian perspective? lol. I want you to fall and bruise your face, in your answer, because I know you will be wrong or don't know because your Bible did not give you any clue. Its like the TRINITY: does not appear as a word in the Bible. How you know what it is, is mind buggling!

3) What did God do on the seventh day?
He ended all His work and rested

Rested, because theChristian God is tired, exhausted, etc? What exactly is the case? If your God rested, who guarded and guided all that was created? You will see how weak you Christians and Jews inclusive have put forward your God!

4) What is the seventh day called?
The Sabbath Day

The same day your God reasted? Does it then mean that your God continues to rest evey sabbath, or a One time thing, at the beginning? Is the Sabbath resters therefore copying/immitating your God? Why do the Christians and Jews have different days of rest? Is one revolting against the resting time, therefore not sticking to the original Sabbath day?

6) What was the name of the garden where the first two people were?
Eden.

Where was Adam and Eve created? Where was your Garden of Eden located, and was it the place where the first man and woman were created?

Who tricked Eve?
The Serpent

Where did the place of trickery located? If it was earth, where geographically? What happened to the place now, it si being used by Human or what? Could you please provide full details and just don't through information around, if you can not support it. And if you do not know the answer, please be sincere about it.

9) What was the name of the tree that Adam and Eve were told not to eat from?
Tree of knowledge of good and evil

Was the tree a fruit or what? And what type of fruit it bore? Is the tree dead or cutdown or what, if it is on this earth, since you are postulating/putting forward an idea that the Garden of Eden was on this earth?

10) How did God punish the serpent for what he did?
To crawl on his belly and eat dust all its life.

It seems from your picture of the Serpent, before this trickery, that it used to walk erect, yes or no? And it was able to communicate with Eve, who was the primary victim; how did it communicate, animal language (serpent language) or human language? What was the role of Satan in this incident, ideal or what, please explain?

The way things stand, the results are as follows:[/qoute] You need to present reasonable answers to my questions.

@Dawid and +Osisi: You're intentionally being dishonest now. You should ask your church leaders why you have never seen the original Bibeli in the language it came? Then maybe you will begin to think of how you carry around a corrupted documented, and you are never aware of it. Ignorance is a desease you know!

Let me educate you a little bit about your religion: If those prophets: Moses spoke Middle eastern languages (Egyptian's Nubia, Median language and Hebrew/Aramaic), how come you never get a copy, no the ORIGINAL Torah in that one of these languages, which it is revealed in (I am suspecting that is the language you have the 10 Commandments in), comparing it, with what you have now? Then you will know that the "Greek," had bamboozed you! They had given you a big copy instead of the original! If David who received Greek and his revelation never was in Greek (noticed he never lived under a conquerer), how then you can go to your Pastor and asked him for the Undilluted Original? If Jesus mother tongue was not greek and he did not 'Preach the Gospel about the place,' how you never saw an Original of your god, the son's Gospel that he preached about the places?

Is it because there is no ORIGINAL to show, because it has been discarded methodically, in a gradual fashion, generation to generation? What are you people afraid of? Man or God and which god: the son, or the holy spirit or the father? Just in John 1:19 that Dawid presented to me in another thread, we read that the 'angel of the LORD (is this Lord here: Jesus, sending the angel to announce his own birth to his 'step father,' or this Lord is the holy spirit, or this Lord is father?), came to Joseph the capenter to inform him that he should not be angry that his wife is pregnant (though they are not married yet, because if they have, she would not have remained a virgin past few hours after they were married, but definitely she would not be a virgin my the following morning), because the pregnancy is by the holy spirit!

Now defend all that I have put forward, but tell me if the holy spirit is responsible for Mary's pregnancy, where did the father became 'god the father?' You people are so confused it is ridiculous. Your concern is genealogy of Muhammad, when his birth has not been disputed, yet you left all these covoluted ideas in your Bible, without pundering on them. How could you have purchase a stinking material like that?

@Dawid:

You liar, mohammed said NOTHING about skyscrapers . . . that was inserted by decietful islamic "scholars" with the intent to mislead. Muhammad claimed "very tall buildings" . . . you know very well that a pyramid and the tower of babel fall into the category of "very tall buildings".

I wo o npe bu yon ntie. E ni tio le bie lomo. Tio ti tun bi irue! But what Muhammad (as), spoke about was in the future, of the DESERT DWELLERS! Not Pyramids of Egypt, already in existence before then. And not Sears towers of Chicago or Empire state in New York, to name Just a FEW. Muhammad spoke about the Middle East, you, , you, ' !' Look at Dubai and the likes of it! Look at Saudi Arabia! Dawid, you are not making sense now. Fi oju inu wo, okay!

And you are so happy to associate astrology with your religion? Big shame on you. That shows that you guys never even believe in what you said you believed, in the first place.

@Dawid: Aburo you are just too crazy. But please don't burst a fuse, okay. Joo.

Your confusion would have been solved if only you had taken the time to study the bible first before spamming the board with your empty queries . . . Mary did not need to explain anything to Joseph . . . he had already been told about Mary by an angel -
Matthew 1:19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for That which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Study the Bible? Except to critic it. I have enough already. The Qur'an has abrogated Bible (Tourat, Sabuur and Injiil)! You called Joseph her husband, by the time she conceived? They were already living together, legally married, with payment of Dowry, according to the Law in the Book of Moses? David. O ngbe kotoo fun ra e. o ti po ju! I will let you capitulate into it. He married her, he did not sleep with her? You don't know the Semetic culture. Yet you are a Yoruba man! I see your entries about chopping the Yam in the very first night! Now you are postulating that Joseph married her, and sometimes passed and he did not consumate the marriage and his wife got pregnant, and be being a 'Just man,'" did not remind Mary about Justice? How could she have remained a virgin when she got married, for some time, in a Patriachial culture? You are a laugh Dawid! The angel appeared to Joseph in a dream and it is the "HOLY GHOST," who is the causation/causer of the pregnancy, and NOT God THE FATHER! Remember, you never ever call Jesus son of the holy Ghost, but son of the father. Is it because you guys realised that the holy ghost really does not have any power, father is the power, always?

Joseph was privy to Mary's conception by the Holy Ghost as is indicated clearly in matthew 1.

Holy ghost is the one delivering the message to Joseph now. And just above, it was Angel of the Lord saying that the pregnancy is by Holy ghost. Which one is it? Is holy ghost actual an Angel of the Lord, uhm, Dawid? Omo mi Davidi. I love you and i want you to think about this on the way to another lecture later, Okay?

First you "foolishly" asked for the genealogy of Jesus Christ both through Joseph and Mary, as soon as that was produced you "foolishly" started bleating that we produce that of Abraham . . . we have simply asked to produce just one . . . that of mohammed and you are yet to do so going on 2 weeks now . . . who is truly "foolish"?

The Yorubas say agba ton lan gbole, ta ba da sho fun a pa laroo. It simply mean complete your duty. You started with Jesus, then give us any and all of the prophets genealogy, all the way to Adam, so that we can be assured that you did not present jesus along, because of the seed of doubt in the community of the Children of isreal, hence they were trying to ridicule his mother, while you are trying to give crdence to his bloodline, even through a step father, at best!

that was what mohammed said . . . he could have said he was a descendant of Pluto and you gullible slaves would have believed it. Show us this "family branch" from Adam so we can independently confirm his statement.

But he did not say any of your worped mind warped mind suggested. He said the truth, but you can't accept it!

neither you nor i know anything. Produce this "blood connection" from Ibrahim. The only "blood connection" that exists for mohammed is coincidentally that in the bible . . . why did allah forget to preserve the genealogy of such a "great prophet" as mohammed when he preserved that of people like Methuselah? Where Methuselah, Laban, Judah, Simeon . . . of more importance to allah than mohammed?

I know that I do not want to claim three in One! I do not want to associate anything with my God! You are foolish in your Question: Is not Muhammad from the Ismail bloodline of Ibrahiim? Is that not enough? Is Muhammad not hashimite of the Quraish of Makka?

show us mohammed's first! when you were foolishly asking for the genealogy of Jesus Christ did it skip your mind that it was of no benefit?

According to the Bible, verses are for teaching, reproach, etc. What function is the genealogy of Jesus?

why then were u asking us for the genealogy of Jesus Christ earlier on? You hypocrite, i am glad you have finally shown us the fact that the quran is an empty book with nothing but meaningless words.

god has genealogy? Before he was conceived by holy ghost/spirit, now he has a father god, not holy spirit god? Then you are explaining his humangeneology through Step father? What is the meaning of the geneology then, since you claim falsely against Qur'anic words?

You know the quran has NO genealogy for anyone and yet you run around claiming it to be a great book while stealing copiously from biblical

The if the Qur'an have stolen from the Bible, yet the Qur'anic words are accused as you have accused it above, what are you truly saying about the words of the Bible that the was 'copiusly sloten?'

@SysUser:

Believe me Seun is academically brilliant, so facts from the bible and biblical evidences of such facts and figures from the bible , which I have no knowledge of , would be welcomed,

What has academic got to do with belief? See, you are even intelligent, yet you chose three entities for one Entity. Yet when you said that one died, we ask you if all of the three died, you said know. We asked if this is so, did the two remaining had less power, you said no. We asked again, what was the role of he one that died relative to the One Entity which has power, regardless whether the one you claimed died or alive; You can't answer!

What can you answer, except that you put forward pseudotheories! The one who was needed to make up the ONE, but when the one died The ONE that remained without the one that died, did not lose any power! Did you get me? I did this just to show you how ridiculously unclear and very confusing your TRINITY that could not give the relevance of each person(s) in the it, that is so important to the One that Truly has power!

God is complete in substance and power with or without Jesus, or the Holy ghost (the two of them are irrelevant to the awesomeness of GOD ALMIGHTY) at all time.

FIRST I JUST WANT TO SAY TO YOU, +OSISI THAT THIS IS MY FIRST ENTRY,TODAY. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT IS ON THE SCREEN AS EARLIER ENTRIES BY ME, TODAY. IT WAS NOT ME. I HAVE CLOSED SOME DOORS AND I WILL NOT REOPEN THEM. INSHAALLAH. WHOEVER USES MY NAME SHOULD STOP USING IT.

@+Osisi:

Quote
the Quran by the time of the third Caliph, already had variations in the text, which required immediate repair. Therefore, all the copies of the Quran throughout the Muslim empire were collected, burned and replaced with a standardized version of the Quran. This demonstrates point demonstrates not all Qurans were the same, there was a point in time when the various Qurans were different.

The current version of the Arabic Quran, is the Quran distributed by Uthman, to the various parts of the Muslim world, after the earlier versions were collected and burned.

+Osisi! The Mouth of Ameeboh, does not bleed! But thats just by the way. In your condition, I need to be gentle with you. As I read your entry above, it is important to point out all the 'Chunnel size' holes in it:

(a) There is only One Book Bind form of Qur'an commissioned by the First Caliphah, Abu Bakr. This only Complete Qur'an in Binded Book form was in the custodial hand of Hafsat; one of the Surviving wives of the Messenger. She was also the daughter of Umar Khattab, who became the second Caliphah, succeeding Abu Bakr. This single 'Complete Qur'an,' was never used not once, during Abu Bakr Caliphate after it was it was placed in the hand of Hafsah> Pay attention that Abu Bakr did not make Aisha, is daughter the custodian.

(b) It was not recorded that in the caliphate, Umar Khattab, the second Caliphah, once required the the custodian, his daughter Hafsah, to bring out the Qur'an for any single usage.

We must know and take into account that the tens of thousands of companionswere still alive, and each memorized as much of all the revelations, the Qur'an in degree of individual capability. For example, it many years for Umah Khattab to memorize Surah baqarah.

(c) Now we come to the caliphate of Uthman Affan. The third caliphah. We see that when this Kalifah decided to make the many Mushaf(s), based on tone and accent of recitations, he had to request from Hafsat, the custodian of the 'Qur'an,' who is the daughter of Umar his predecessor, his own mother by the virtue that she is a wife of the Prophet, to relaese the Qur'an in her possession, for the benefit of the Muslim Ummah.

It was this Qur'an and the reconfirmation of each ayah, by any and all who has a copy of that ayah, on one hand and recitaions of the ayah on another hand. So what you have is a master piece, the single book bind Qur'an, from the time of Abu Bakr. Then in support are the copies of the ayah written down. Finally in support are those people who have committed the ayah into memory, reciting it, in the style(s) they memorised it in.

Please where in the world did you get, the variations in the Qur'an up to this point, that the texts have to be repaired? Remember you claimed above that there are flaws and needed to be corrected by the time of Uthman, the third Kalifah. But just before he made the many mushaf(s), which he made, there was just that single Qur'an in book bind fronm the time of Abu Bakr! Was Uthman correcting that One or using it to write the 5 Mushafs based on the seats of Islam, at that time? Talk +Osisi! Sometime i just have to be a little bit gruff and "ruff," with you. You are not a tender meat at all. Woman, how many "Qur'ans" in the Muslim world at that time when Uthman became the Kalifah? How large was the Muslim world? I can see that you changed to "standardized Version," so that you can get out of what you accused the Qur'an of, in the first place. All of a sudden there is only one 'VERSION,' of the Qur'an now, trying so hard to equate it with your Bible? No lady, it is impossible to do that! Qur'an is on a higher plane than any document! Liar, liar skirt/dress on fire!

After the 5 Mushafs, the patchments or remants which were used were collected and burnt! After the Qur'an texts have been written down to accomodate at least the accents of th 5 major places, what would the parchments be serving with the Muslims? You can have any good answer to this Question, +Osisi! Is this the destruction you and your type have been accusing the muslims about? Shame on you if it is! You guys should have done the same with your "Injil, ' then you will not end up with Lost and or Corrupted Injiil.

I will address the lost part soon, the corrupted part is already been explained many time. But I can give you a quick explanation, what corruption is, using Akpu (the Yorubas will write it Apuu). (Variations, but pronounciation is very similar and they mean the same thing). See your fault laid to bare? I will use Ogboonoh soup, in this case. There is a standard recipe that is known by the Igbos. Let just say that a 'neuvou,' Igbo woman or man decided to cook 'Ogboonoh' soup with a slight twist, maybe the lenght of time for each ingredient to be added is compromised and or, very essentially, change the ingredient list (recipe), from what is known, addition here and there, for example add some pureed Okra (afterall they are both slimy) and some others, or take out whatever he or she didn't like from the 'Standard' Ogboonoh recipe. Now when this new Ogboonoh soup is made, it can even be tasty and have flavor to a person, who is not familiar with the 'classical standard Ogbonor' soup. But it will never pass for the true Ogbonoor soup. Your present Bible, indeed the Bible from the time that it wa revealed in the Qur'an that your Bible is already tampered with (Corrupted), and all the way to the last man on earth, will always be this fake 'Ogbonor soup,' whereas the standard classical recipe for Ogbonoh soup by the Old time Igbo mother is the in line with 'True revelation in the time of that prophet who was given the revelation; Torah, (Torat,etc), Sabur (sabor, Sabuur, etc) and Injil (Injiil,etc).

I was talking to a person from Aku Tribe in Sierra Lione, this morning when I was told that Aku people speak Yoruba language. Of course, curiously I asked that some Yoruba be spoken so that I hear it. Knowing full well, that Language is purest when it is communicated Orally , it was not a shock to me when the fellow said Ekaaro (good morning in Yoruba), but wrote it down as Ekaro. Then I ask what is good night and I heard (Odaaro, a Yoruba word that I am familiar with), but when the Aku fellow wrote it down as "ODARU," the light went on in my head: Subhanallah: Good night was pronounced very clearly in the local accent, but writing down was another thing from a Yoruba perspective! You see where am going with this?

When you guys, the non Muslims are saying that Qur'an in Arabic language has "versions,' you do not take into considerations, that Muhammad (AS), himself who the Qur'an was revealed upon, did not have to know how to read or write in the process of memorisation of the Qur'an. Infact he was known as the "Unlettered," prophet! His followers (Me and all Muslims are referred to as unlettered as well, regardless of individual matriculations).

If you noticed, I have deliberately wrote Caliphah, Kalifah, different spelling, same pronounciation of the same word! I have also wrote Ogboonor, Ogbonoh, etc to give you visual differences of the SOUP that is eaten by many, but maybe more common with Igbo tribe, to illustrate that in oral tradition, which is what Qur'an is, especially when there are many styles of recitations, the regional spelling may be diffrerent, from place to place, but the pronounciation is the same, barring the accent: Thats why a person who learn the Qur'an by using Hafs style of Qur'an writing can read the Warsh as well.

When I have the time i will address your lost Bible (Torah/Taurat/Toorah/Toorat, Sabur/Sabuur/sabuor, and Injil/Injiil/Injjil, etc), on the relevant thread.


I EVEN WROTE AMEBO, differently. This is deliberate and anyone see it. But amebo is pronounced the same way regardless of how many ways it can be written.

Pilgrim,

Since all these different versions of Bibles on the earth today do not agree with each other.

The Catholic Bible (based on the Latin Vulgate of the fourth century) has 73 books, while the Protestant Bible (one thousand years later) only has 66 books. Which one? The new one (66 books)? Or the old one (73 books)?

Thats what we call versions and not mere singular and plural Differences that don't change anything.

If you can point out a version which have one or more sura then we can talk or discuss better.

@+Osisis and D_D:

you asked me to provide the genealogy of abraham or any of the prophets in the bible . . . i ask you to do the same for mohammed and you are crying about "use"? What was the use of asking me to provide the genealogy of abraham?
Yet again . . . please provide the genealogy of mohammed!
Allah could not have preserved the genealogy of the jews and forgotten that of his greatest prophet.

Hugwash! Thats all that wrote above. If Jesus bloodline was not in questions, based on the wrong assumption that Mary was unchasted, no one would have culled up a gabley gook, a shoddy job that you are passing for truth. What a fairy tale, give me a break. First you are attaching Joseph the capenter, who at best will be a step father. You are telling us a Jewish man, was calm and rationalize well when he found his future bride with a baby, and he was not the father! Can you image what an 'explaining,' Mary will have to make? You forgot that they are both from Patriarchal society!

If Jesus, as a grown man was the one who used prophetic wisdom to extricate a woman from the hands of the Jewish leaders, then I asked you again how did Mary remain alive after her stomach was showing, or after she brought the child? I only brought Ibrahiim or any prophet, when you Christians continued, foolishly to ask me about the genealogy of Muhammad. By the way his genealogy or purity of his bloodline was never in question by anyone amongst the Arabs. Now Muhammad said that his family branch from Adam all the way to him, there was no adultery or fornication. Now if that does not answer your question, knowing fully well about his blood connection in the bloodline of Ibrahiim, and then being a hashimite from the Quraish bloodline, I can not help you!

Finally, what is the purpose of Jesus two genealogy lists, in the Bible? Could you tell us the benefit or any lesson it has for you, other than defending Jesus mother's family prestige? Or is it only to fill the pages of the Bible?

{quote]419 allah.don't understimate him. {/quote] I have to be gentle with you, since it already stuck in there! The changes make people act out of character. In your case its far out. 419 is synonymous, unfortunately with 9ja. So, again you are wrong!

olabowole,since they've answered you well, can you please tell us the geneology of the koranic Jesus and how his conception occured ?

What the Qur'an has done is to help you ease out of the TRINITY, a concept which has no basis for reality. It does not even appear in your Bible! Unlike your Bible, the Qur'an, tackles what you can write down but yet developed a concept which you present as part of your central theme. Qur'an did not present any genealogy for any one, so i do not know why you should expect one for Jesus! Go drink milk and Ice Cream. Good night.

@SysUser: Stop your kissing up!

Personally I believe THERE IS A GOD, (GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB)!, AND I BELIEVE THAT I AM GOING TO GIVE AN ACCOUNT TO HIM FOR EVERY DECISION AND INDECISION, EVERY ACTION AND INACTION.

You forgot to add JESUS. Hence, it is "THERE IS A GOD(GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC, JACOB,, JESUS). I am making this statement based on the word of Jesus himself. Please read Mark 12 Verse 29 and receive salvation! There is only ONE GOD! There are no other(s)!

You the adviser, should take your own advice an get out of a fly trap, otherwise known as "TRINITY." That concept will never give you salvation.

@Dawid: Nko to ba wu e ni ko pe re e. The voice is like the voice of jakobu, and the skin (The hairy arm) is that of Esau. But the attitude, is all davidylan! Oh boy, whats going on? Doing your Hoodini, again? What sin did Moses commit? Yet, his Lord never stop having an audience with him. Dafidi, Iro wa le nue, Oye ka wa ma ta ni Gbanjoo! You never will change, liar today, liar tomorrow, liar always! Ti nba nue, ma loo enu e yen. No wonder you refused to call. Trickster!

On one hand you said the prophets are vulnerable to sin, and your Bible never referred to them as sinless not one time. Good. Since Jesus was also a prophet, i am certain that he was also in their group! Finito. You made your bed lumpy, laydown and wake up with backache! So it is no surprise to you to see Muhammad, also a human and a prophet supplicating to his Creator for forgiveness.

However the difference between Islam (Qur'an and the prophets) is that God protects his prophets from sins, given them the ability to fight it. Again The case of Joseph comes to mind> How he preferred to go to Prison instead of committing fornicatio with the woman, whereby the woman will be committing adultery. Muhammad was reported to respond to Aisha that he is praying so much to thank his God who had confirmed that his sins of the future is already forgotten him! And you know from just going 'back' to the future that he could not have committed the future sins until he gets there. Yet we never will see in the report of hadith that he committed any sins. You will know that Allah will tell him, if he had committed any.

Afterall, we see in Surah Ahzah where Allah say He is not shy. We also see in Surah Abasa where Allah tell Muhammad to respond to the blind man, who he had told to hang on until he finished his conversation with a nobility he was talking with about Islam. Muhammad never hid anything revealed to him and heeded all commands. Afterall Allah thretened that the punishment would have been doubled. (This here reminds me that if Jesus were to have claimed lordship any time, his punihment would have een double; Because he was given a prophethood and there was no need to not deliver the message as he was given, exactly!) So, when Muhammad was asking for giveness in the Hadith, it was because he was a sinner. It was his sunnah that he should not be arrogant, puff up and then this was a good example for us, to seek forgiveness endlessly.

Between Muhammad and Jesus (as Jami'ah) there is no prophet. Muhammad succeeded Jesus. You should have known that since by religion Jesus was a Christian and we know that he was not in Judaism. No prophet was a Jew or Christian, by religion.

Since you now revert to addition Torah as part of the mother Bible, the bible parts are fighting and agreeing with ech other. Thern One particular part, the New Testament, is fighting itselg; One God/Lord on One hand, then 3 god heads in 1 god on another hand. Silly.

The core issue of every revelation , before Moses, and to Mose and jesus and finally Muhammad (AS jami'ah) is that ther is no god except the GOD. Check the Qr'ah every prophet abide by this. Now can you give me the revelation of Adam, Jonah, Job, to me from the Bible and postulates Trinity, Dafidi?

So if the prophets of the Bible were saying turn to the way of Jehovah,did they themselves were the first among their community to do so and those who followe or they Jusr said it but they themselve never have to do so? Either way i wonder how Jesus oldly declare to his community that he was under the Lordship of God, just the same way they all were. Since it was Jesus that was telling them and they taking it to heart, jesus have known it somewhat sooner than before it was coming out of his mouth to their ears.

Let me tell you something david, didn't Moses lead the way out of Egypt, under his instructions? Didnt Moses lead the way into the sea, meaning undr his instructions, the Israelites went into the sea? Believed in Moses, as a prophet Davidi, thats what I meant! Believed in Jesus as a prophet! Afterall the companions of Jesus asked himto giv them a sign: What was the purpose of the sign? To believe him as a prophet. Read the Qur'an. Thats all she wrote.

Afterall, in the Hadith, after the first revelation, the first 5 Verses of Surah Alaq, Jibril said to Muhammad, I am Jibril and you are the Messenger of Allah.

@KAG

KAG: A quick glance at your response shows that you certainly do have some problems.

I am going to show how wrong, rather dishonest you are in your responses to me. Watch.

KAG: Huh, what? No, humans that died before Joseph Smith aren't necessarily in hell: Joseph Smith wasn't Jesus. Furthermore, there are provisions for those that died prior to Jesus.
By the way, what's the Muslim view of what happens to people that were born before Muhammad?>

The view of the Islamic religion are in the Qur'an and hadith, hence my only sources of information. All prophets were Muslims. From Adam all the way to Muhammad (as jami'ah). All prophets had the same functions, bringing guidance, from God the Almighty to their generations. Those who accepted guidance and followed the prophet of whom they lived under his prophethood, will go to Paradise. Those who did not follow their prophet under whose prophethood they lived will go to hellfire. Let me show you. For illustration of this view, those who continued to believe in Moses, but rejected Jesus, when Jesus proclaimed his prophethood, have really rejected Moses as well, but they just did not know it, because of the ignorance that remained in their hearts. Now, those people are destined for hell. From the time that Muhammad received the first 5 verses of Surah Alaq, the time of Jesus came to an end. Please give me the view of those who died before Jesus, the obedients and the disobedients among them? And how do you clacify obedience and disobedience before Jesus?

KAG: Look, pay attention: I explained this in my previous post. The people we call "Native Americans" were the people whose skin was turned red by God as a sign that they were being punished for rising up against the rest of the tribe of Israel. So, yes, Joseph smith was White, but that's because he didn't descend from the tribe of Israel that was cursed by God. It says so in ancient slowpoke theology, so it must be true.>

Rubbish you speak Mr. KAG! First you fail to provide us even to buttress your own argument, what is the sin of the "RED SKINNED"Native Americans? They travelled all the way from whereever the 'tribe of Israel' was when their skinned changed to Red, and all of them settled in the Americas! Wow, there is not even a single one that remained within the group of non red skinned tribe of Israel. We may just conclude as well that the red skinned people's punishment must include their separation from the rest of Israel tribe. Yet God of the Israelite (That God is the same that the Christian claimed before the 3 in 1 god concept became the thing under the umbrella of TRINITY), turned skin into red as a means of punishment, yet He did not punish Aaron for disobeying part of the 10 commandments, by his involvement in the golden calf! A just God indeed, except that it did not happen as theChristian/Jew put it! You see again, the Prophets are people who do not commit sins like you and me. For example another man would have gone astray in the trial of Joseph from the wife of his master in Egypt. So I will leave you alone to go think about it. However your retuttal above is very weak.

KAG: No, no, you're wrong. Like I mentioned in the previous post, that wasn't God's saying: that's an error on the part of either Mohammedians or Muhammad himself. Both the LDS and, especially, the Bahai faith make it clear that prophets are supposed to come after Muhammad. In fact, the Koran predicts the coming of the Bab.>

Please give me the Chapter and Verse in the Qur'an that predict the coming of th Bab, the folks who believed that the office of prophethood is not sealed, with Muhammad? And there is nothing called Mohammedians. I aught to know. I am a Muslim and you are not. Maybe you put forward the idea, in the same way TRINITY is put forward. The difference is that we in Islam do not work on faith that does not see, with the inner eye (Good reflection) and/or physical eyes (Verification of nature and the elements in it). Blind faith is with the Christians and thats how TRINITY could be acceptable, even though it does not pass muster! You trying to hard to second guess your Creator. You are neither a prophet nor Messenger from Him. Jesus did not say what you said about seal of prophethood. The only prophet that came after him, Muhammad (as) said it and you suddenly you have problems with it!

KAG: That's a load of nonsense. Okay, let's get serious for a second. There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Jews residing in Eastern Europe are also Jews; however, none is more compelling than that of the genetic testing of the Ashkenazi. Genetics have shown that they are indeed Jews that descended from ancient - very anient - Jews.
Also, I don't se how your claim knocks the possibility of Red Indians being ethnically Jewish out of the box. Your two statemnets don't logically follow. Look, I'll do you a solid and inform you that you can present a genetic argument against the idea, but what you have above ain't it

Just the other day, they showed that Ishaq Shemiah is from the Eastern European Jews, which includes the Russian Jewry. It was stated that they are not really Jews, but a convert under the king in the ancient time who converted with all his nation. In that program where Shemiah was discussed, they show the opposite, Shemon Perez, who was not from Eastern block Jewry, to be a true bloodline of what is known as Israelite. Go and do your own research. maybe you should result to google and or widipedia and others. Already you have batted zero for three. But I will continue to allow you to even remain on the mound. You have not proven the red indians to be from the Chikldren of Israel. There is no evidence of it. Even the Falasians of East Africa have their evidences. The few who claim Jewry/Children of Israel descendancy in West Africa, have the evidences to proof it. We have not seen the Golbal Jewry or the American Jews accepting the Red Indians about what you present. Finally, do your own research, you will see that Joseph Smith was not from the Children of Isreal, either.

KAG: Woah, way to introduce a red herring. I think that it isn't a particular red herring makes it ever slightly offensive. By the way, which God are you talking about?>

Not the true God the Creator, who I worship. I am talking about your made up god! That god could have been the idol/image or the conceptualised god that you have. The god that was limited by knowledge to kow the total/complete condition of its subject that he had to come learn their ways, in order to give mercy/justice! Yet, according to you some people will end up in the lake of fire, even after this god learnt first hand how difficult it is to live a life of human. See how weak that god is? A true God knows everything. Thats the God I worship. Your concept of god is not different from the hamandiola (I read it from +osisi's post. I may be wrong about the spelling, but am going to assume it is an igbo religion. Same as Shongo of Yoruba).

KAG: I'm still not sure I know what you're on about, and looking at it, I pretty much doubt you know what you're talking about either.

I am teaching you your Bible, silly (thats just to say that you should know, duh. I am not saying it as an offensive statement). Unless you are pretending not to know. Maybe you truly do not know. Read how unfair is your god is in the Bible! Let me even tell you, your bible god said braham should send out his young son and the mother of the son out. Both mother and son did not put up even an argument. Then your god cursed the child that he will be a wild man. Remember it was the little boy who was cursed to be a wild man. This boy turned out to be a descent man and there was no report that he was ever wild or made anybody uncomfortable, throughout his life! Now tell we did the curse come to pass on the boy? No! It is because there was no god cursing the boy! The curse was just a made up argument to bring this man, Ischmael down! It did not work. And if you respond with anything other than Ischmael, expect me to respond in the same manner of your response. I have to warn you first. Stand upon the truth, even if the truth will prove you wrong.

KAG: Don't be silly! That I don't agree with the authnecity of your assertation doesn't mean that I can't show that the people I presented meet the standards. For example, an argument could be presented that to be the president of the US, you have to be a White male. I may not agree with the argument, but I can certainly show that several people meet that criteria.
Basically, get real and present a half decent rebuttal.>

I do not get your joke here. But I will try to laugh with you, anyway. lol. I do not want to upset you, but explain yourself! To be a prophet is not just claiming the title it has a tremendous amount of valued/parts/responsibility and proveability. Joseph Smith would never have passed the muster of Prophethood, it any of the core litmus was applied. 

KAG: You don't seem to understand. If the book of Mormon says something, because it' the word of God, that omething has to be true.>

You are a Mormon. I see. Just like Mitt Romney. Sorry, man. I am now aware of your reason to argue the case for Mormon, and for Protestants, Catholics, the same people the mormon have a common relationships, vis a vis, Bible, however different, Jesus regrdless of who is doing the talking, and religion, Christianity. Let me ask you this though, is Jesus at least also son of man and a prophet who did not have dignity in his own land, in the Book of Mormon? I smile bashfully, covering my mouth with my hand.

KAG: Oh Dear! Are you saying Allah is a terrible god/lord because he allowed people to worship under the wrong practices before sending Muhammad? That's epic, man. So should I just take it that you're living the religion of that terrible, unjust god of yours?>

KAG, you are so dishonest, its scary! Are you truly a believer in something or you are just arguing for the purpose of participation? If you believe in anything at all, you would have known, at least from this board that the Muslims are very consistent it their claims, that God Almighty Allah had sent Prophets and Messengers to makind, starting from Adam, who was aprophet and the first man to be created. His prophethood covered his wife and him, at the beginning and then their children when they began to have them. The generations continues and the prophethood of Adam stopped when the next prophet began his prophethood. This is the chain links of all prophets/messengers, one succeeding the other, until the last that was sent to all mankinds; The whole earth human and jinn. That prophet/messenger was Muhammad (as). So you see God in Islam never left any human group without providing guidance source. And the core message is Always Laa ilaha ilallah! (No god except 'The God').

KAG: He perfected what he was supposed to perfect, because Muhammad didn't do everything.>

KAG, what did Joseph Smith do? And what didnt Muhammad perfect; any aspect at all, from cradle to grave? Please quiz me and the muslims. This should be interesting. Our answers will not be localized, but universal. Unlike any answer you will provide when we quiz you. That is if you will strong enough to handle the truth.

KAG: Not really. By the way, the Bab came and managed to do a great deal.>

Are you a cultist? You seem to be so facinated by these cult like groups. Are they like heavens gate of the 80s in America, the group that killed themselves by taking poison?

KAG: You dodged the question. Not nice and not subtle.>

I am going to find his question. I will answer it if it is true that I dodge it. Or just simply quote it for his own reference to show that i did not dodge it.


(KAG's question which he asked me and I answere him with the one liner below. How old is Islam again?
Islam you said! Not a sect of Old hag, Christianity which is what Mormon fall into! Pych!)


Now I will do better I will answer you that Islam started for mankind at the time that Adam became a living soul. See as a living man, he was not a spirit. But his soul is a spirit. Now, up to the time of the receipt of revelation, by Muhammad, Islam was in this developing stage(s), but becoming formented into maturity. So when in the hand of Adam, it was in its earlies infancy. When it got to Ibrahiim, it had taken up the name Muslim for those who pracice it. And Ibrahiim was the first in his generation, afterall he was the prophet. When it got to Jesus, it was a lot advance, call it in graduate school at that time. Finally, during the prophethood od Muhammad, in the time of his only Hajj, in his last year full year on earth, Allah Completed the religion, by perfecting it as a favor bestowed upon mankind and chose that RELIGION, in this perfect stage as the only religion acceptable by Him. There fore if you are talking about its perfect stage it is over 1400 years. If you are taling about when it transferred to Muhammad as the steward then it is hijra plus 13 years. If you are talking about it started with mankind, then you have to go to Adam himself. calculate from there. Definately, it is older than Judaism and Christianity.

KAG: I didn't put that premise forward, YOU did. Now that we know that you think your implication is ridiculous, need we continue this torture?>

KAG, what is shameful here is that you even deny your own statements! The below is what you said when I responsed to Debosky about his 'remix,' allegation against the Qur'an. I said, in a nutshell,how could the remixed be so better than the original, and I used the Music studio allegory/metaphor to support my argument with him. But you were the one that responded instead. Anyway your response is as noted. Who is not sincere here, putting forward that the New Must be the better? Definately not me. My idea is for certain that Qur'an did not copy a corrupt material text!
(Here is what you said, KAG, which you are trying to forget)If the Koran is that masterpiece, then the Book of Mormon is the super, super, Masterpiece. And the scripture of the Bahai faith, the Kalimat-i-Maknunih? It's totally out of this world.)

KAG: Good, because I was always had my doubts about Islam/Mohammedianism.>

You are action like our former Defense Secretary, Mr. Donald Rumfeld. Repeat a lie so many times long enough, and it be taken as the truth. KAG, there is no Islamic word known as Mohammediansm. Just as there is no word in Christianity called TRINITY, eventhough you develop an Idea on this phantom. Your premise of doubt can be applied to every religion by one or more of the others. Today, Mitt Romney is being flatly rejected by other Christians, who are claiming that Mormon is a cult What do you say to that? Today alone Barack Obama is stating that he is not a Muslim. People forgets that his mother is white, but all they see is the Kenyan in him. So you see we can cancel each other out, all day and all night. But non o that effort will change God's about his religion.

KAG: No, the false premises and outright fantasies have come from the Muslim camp so far (look at the original post for a quick and obvious example). By the way, I know these things are sometimes hard to detect, but my premises have followed the same line presented by yourself and other Muslims. If they are false, then it stands to reason that the Muslim premises are just as wrong - or worse. That does put us into a sticky bind, doesn't it`

The one who is in a sticky bind is none less than you. In the first place, the Bible (New Testament) is fighting the Toral (Old Testament) Then the New Testament turns around and fights itself. It fights itself by putting up Mark 12 verse 29 up against the concept of Trinity> By the way, which one do you take to be true, because they cannot both be true? It fights the Torah on one hand by its concept of Trinity as well and the agrees with it by Mark 12 Verse 29. What we have then are two fights and 2 agrements! This is confusing.

@D_D:

The bible indicates that star worship had been going on thousands of years before mohammed allegedly made this "prophecy". See - And when you look up to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars--all the heavenly array--do not be enticed into bowing down to them and worshiping things the LORD your God has apportioned to all the nations under heaven. (Deuteronomy 4:19)

You missed the mark by a good part of a mile there. The muslim, said in his entry that people begin to believe stars. If that means worship for you or the christian, that good. But the truth is that it is only half truth. You forgot 'the people who go to the astrologist, and the psychics and finally, we see sections in the papers where daily horoscopes are read religiously. Afterall, Mrs Nancy Reagan consulted Astrologists and psychics, through out her husband' presidency, after the episode of Mr. John Hinckley Jr. went to Washington. The leader of the free world was led around by a woman who is consulting Gepsies! Yet America is a Judeo-Christian nation. Think man, think my brother.

@Dawd:

Here is one example: * Very tall buildings will be built; (sky scrappers)

If this is a "sign of the endtime" then is it possible that we have been in the "endtime" for the last 6000 years? The Egyptians built one of the tallest structures on earth, the pyramids . . . is that part of the endtime?

You people expose your paucity of knowledge every moment you try to skirt around such important contradictions.

Tell me Mr. Dawd, if Muhammad made a statement about 1400 years ago, concernig Sky scrapers, did you know what are of the world he spoke about? Have you seen the sign in that area of the world, before you are conningly passing up Pyramid as part of the 'sky scrapers?' Go back and read the hadith again before you lied up the Nairaland board, dawd!

@D_D:

Alhaji, the purpose of Christ's death was not so that He could transform into the holy Ghost but that through His death AND resurrection we may have redemption from spiritual death/sin.
The Holy Spirit is simply there as a guide and is only available to those who have accepted the sacrifice of the cross.

If there is a single Christian in hellfire, then the redemption that you stated above is only a fluke! Then tell me, what is the fate of Adolf Hitler, a Protestant? What is the fate of Mussollini, a Catholic? Are they going to hell or paradise? Remember that they both believed in the 'death,' which you used as your foundation of spiritual death/sin redemption.

So the 1/3 of your god, the holy spirit part, is a personality that is 'simply there as a guide and is only available to those who have accepted the sacrifice of the cross,' so tell me again what happens to Hitler and Mussollini? Afterall, they could not have been Christians except that they accepted the 'sacrifice of the cross?' Since the holy spirit must have been available to these major world figures, yet they acted so evilly, is the holy spirit not supposed to guide to goodness? How can they have holy spirit available to them, yet they were that terrible?

@Focused:

Muhammed was not a comforter and will NEVER be a comforter. The comforter that Jesus talked about is the holy ghost, which appeared to his disciples on the day of pentecost. Which was 600 years before Muhammed (The great terrorist) was born.

Focused, tell me how do you have the idea of 3 godhead(s) in 1 singularly god, yet you have verses like Mark 12;29 in it? They are so opposite to each other. Which one is to be believed,Mark 12;29 that was spoken by jesus or the trinity concept that was peddled by someone else. Which one 'ABROGATED the Other?'

Give me an answer please.

@Luvus: Therefore, for any of your 'word,' to make sense, trying so hard to defend the English Bible: go get yourself a Bible, no the New Testament part of it (I want to make your job easier, because you are not a Jew by religion), in the language that Jesus received it. If he did not receive anything, but just began to preach something anyways, go get that 'something,' in the original language, which he preached it! Then I can talk to you, hoping that you are worthy of our dialogue. For me I stand on the truth of Qur'an in Pure Arabic!

[quote from anonymous which Luvus responded to. I think the guy is a Christian]abeg see breaking down i can't but help smile amusing to myself [quote][/quote]don't amuse yourself too much. Please get your Bible in the Original language that it is revealed in and don't just give me of what you get from a greek's most ancient manuscript! I want what came out during the time of the preaching, while his apostles were with him! You will not be amused anymore after see a stark departure in your Bible from what Jesus preached. (Preached meaning he was preaching something, an Idea. Who gave him that Idea to preach?)

Afterall, finally, +Osisi read that the Qur'an was compiled in a Book Bind at the time of Abu Bakr; the man who led the Muslim community after the dead of Prophet Muhammad (as)

[quote from +osisi]Many muslims listen to Christian preachers.
I've often heard them quoting Creflo dollar and Benny Hinn.
I encourage them to keep listening.
Faith comes by hearing.
TBN gets tons of mail from Muslims in the middle east that came to the knowledge of the saving Grace by tuning in to listen to "these infidels"
His word shall not return void.

[/quote]I looked at them just to see how silly the audience really are. The theatrics of it all is a Sunday comedy hour!

Why do you think sharia bans public preaching and witnessing and persecutes Christians?
It's because they know the message is a powerful one and draws millions to Christ.
In Africa alone 6 million Muslims say Yes to Christ yearly.
This shows that only the truth can set men free.

Why allow inpurity to come in when what is already inside is pure and wholesome?

Christianity is not a religion,or movement or something one is born into.
It is a conscious decision to follow Christ and live according to his precepts.
It's more than a way of life,it's life itself.

I wonder how the Christianity dominates Igboland, if they were not born into it and this is the only thing they have known, generation after generation and it has became a family tradition? Christianity is very unnatural, for one thing, it sets one man above another and therefore put all burdens on that person , while the others become irresponsible, even to terrible at it that they are not taking responsibilty for their own SALVATIONS.

[quote for D_D]One last word Bicey . . . do not take this as another islam bashing but an opportunity for you to search your soul.[quote]

His soul/spirit is already in agreement with Islam. He was a Muslim, while he was still in Spiritual form alone, as a soul, taking from the back of Adam, his father.

[qd]You said: "May God forgive us of SINS we commit that we are not aware of."
Please what is the concept of "sin" in the quran? Did allah ever tell you he had the power to forgive sins?[/qd] From the Qur'an the greatest sin is worshipping anything else along with or without Allah. Like you worshipping Jesus or the Catholic his Mother, etc. Sin in general is the going against or actions contrary to the laws and commandments of Allah on worship, obedience and good deeds. One of the name/descriptions of Allah is the 'Forgiver.' I will not elaborate and give you others, because I think you are deliberately dishonest. But know that hellfire is mentioned in the Qur'an as the means of punishment for the disbelievers/evildoers, etc and Paradise is mentioned as a means of mercy from Allah and a reward of the effort of believers, who are the Muslims.



[qd]Please be aware . . . i ask these questions NOT to denigrate that which you believe but to prompt you to dig deeper . . . to be like the Berean christians who are not content to just swallow what the imam says in the mosque but to search and understand who allah truly is. Maybe when you do the scales of deciet that mohammed has placed over your spiritual eyes would fall open. [/qd] I wonder how Islam is entering Black, White, Spanish American homes, even after 911? Your statement borders on pure infancy. It is only a babble!

[qd]I'm not being critical here but if you can listen to "Pastor" Sam Adeyemi every sunday (as an unbeliever) and none of his words pricks your heart then i have all grounds to doubt those words of his. [/qd] Why does a Muslim have to listen to pastor Adeyemi, every sunday? There is a new sales of indulgence going on? Listen to a good tecture on Tawhid first, then unless your heart is harder than a rock, you will have to abandone your 3 persons in 1 god concept!

[qd]Christ's message is not one that appeals to the lost, it is not a feel-good doctrine wherein everyone can just come and learn some new slogan for the week, it is not a motivational speech . . . the bible calls it the sword of the Spirit. A sword cuts throuth the heart . . .
Christ's message was so tough the pharisees spent 3 years "seeking to kill Him". [/qd]The message of Islam was so tough that Muhammad and the emigrate. All those 13 years of Makka era was never a perid of peace and Surah Yasim's Verse 9 was a culmunation of the whole of Makkan clans trying to kill Muhammad. Yet in the 10 years that followed, every people, the Jews of Madina also planned along with the Arabs to kill Muhammad and his followers. And peace did not come until the Victory of Makka. And what is the different between Spirit and soul, if you know? By the way which one of them that a living man must have, even if the other is not present? Which one of them must be absent in a dead man even if the other is present? To be a Muslim, it is 24 hours a day job. A person is supposed to be all Muslim all the time! If christianity is hard, Islam is harder in commitment, then it becomes a comfort of the Soul (the spiritual part of man), the heart (the muscle in the body that is responsible for the conscience) and the rest of the body which one need to carry out the commandments of Allah and carrying out the duties to Him, alone.

[qd]Must the Word of God prick the heart before you believe its from God? I have spent sometime with core muslims in the north (even spent sometime with an Emir in his palace during NYSC) and they uphold some of the things we uphold. Some muslims believe in the Sermon on the Mount taught by Jesus and do practice it. [/qd] There is no doubt Jesus a Muslim, because he was not a Christian. A simple observation of Core Muslim South would have yielded the same result that you find in the core Muslims of the north! But the Christians do not practice everything Jesus. If they do they would not have developed an idea, which they claim is Trinity, even though TRINITY is not a word intheir Religious Text, the Bible. I wonder on what basis they call something Trinity? Maybe its a word they like that is also a concept from another ancient religion(s)?

[qd]Are u now saying a Pastor's "Sermon on the Mount" message is "doubtful" if a muslim (that believes in that Sermon) hears it and is not "pricked"?
It's quite disheartening as well to know u havent watched him on TV and u are criticizing him. if u have, u should know its on AIT saturday 7.30am not sunday as u stated[/qd] Borrowing from the British this morning; This is rubbish!

[qd]Pastor Adeyemi's SUCCESS POWER (SP) prog is more of motivational, inspirational teachings and not "FIRE FALL ON SINNERS" type of messages. SP talks about being who God created u to be; national rebirth and love for mankind. Infact everything he talks about can be found in the Bible even though he doesnt quote scriptures often in SP. I'm not his member but have also heard him preach and pray (and I tell you the man is anointed of God). [/qd] Another great rubbish!

[qd]So bros! confirm sometins before u criticize. I'm not surprised that bicey likes SP. It a sign of good things to happen in his life
As for +osisi and away4real
Love your comments! Keep them up! [/qd] To borrow from +Osisi: Beat your own drums of 'nothingness.' (The 'nothingness is my own emphasis). A great empty hi5 for nothing you wrote there. Don't make me laugh.

[qd]Anyone can be a "pastor" . . . we know of the "old prophet" in the bible and we are made aware that there indeed will be false teachers in the last days.[/qd] In your opinion are you saying that false prophets are false teachers? Therefore good prophets were good teachers? Hence one is to take it that a prophet is a teacher and that teachers are not necessarily prophets. Would you then conclude that part of the functions of a prophet is to teach and prophet is another word for a teacher?

[qd]I need to check an "ENGLISH DICTIONARY" to understand the concept of Sin in the quran? Was this dictionary in existence in 638AD?
My brother, it is a clear sign of how empty islam is in that there is no coherent explanation for several of its vague concepts. You talk of allah forgiving sins and yet cannot define SIN in the concept of the quran. What then is allah forgiving? Sin as defined by atheists english professors?[/qd] Sin, for example as in sexual relationships; Allah says do even come close to illegal sex (Zina), it is an evil thing. Sin as in theft; Taking things away illegally without the permission of the owner, therefore depriving the owner its usage and its values as he/she sees fit. I can quote and try to define sins from Qur'an, but the greatest of it is not worshipping Allah the Almighty God alone, and negating every other forms of deity. So you my man, since you are a Christian, you are committing the same great sin, which is the first in the 10 commandment of the Jews. From Islamic point of view, you have Jesus as a deity along with his Creator!

[qd]Must the Word of God prick the heart before you believe its from God?
my brother i am not surprised, we indeed are in the last days. Please read the messages of Paul, Stephen, Peter, James, John . . . in the bible. The word they preached did 2 things; either convicted some of their iniquity and they gave their lives to Christ OR made the unbelievers mad in so much that they went about seeking to slay the apostles. [/qd] But Paul was not an apostle. How dare you therefore defined him as one, when apostles of Jesus were those who followed him as believers of his Message, while he was alive on earth within their mist! You mentioned the message of Paul who was not an apostle, first before mentioning the Messages of the first hand eye witnesses; James, John, etc, this clearly shows your reverence of them. But you did not even tell us the message of Jesus! Did he have a message and what was it? Where is his gospel that he preached about the places he went?

[qd]Today we have unbelievers openly embracing those who shld be the lightbearers of the christian faith. May the Lord have mercy. The WORD IS CHRIST . . . if Christ preached through the word does not convict you of sin unto righteousness then either the "word" being preached is empty, devoid of spiritual power or your conscience is already seared with a hot iron.[/qd]If the WORD IS CHRIST as you have just said, how come CHRIST who is the WORD is preaching through the WORD? Those this make any sense top you? Jesus is still preaching today (Better yet the word is preaching the word, today?) I thought he is in heaven? I take your other opinion, the word being preached is empty and devoid of spiritual power! Yes that it. It sounds just about right.

[qd]"Practicing" the sermon on the mountain is not what christianity is about my brother . . . it is a lifestyle. Withour salvation . . . empty believe and practice is nothing but filthy rags.[/qd] But Only God Almight God the Creator of all things owns salvation! It does not belong to anyone else! However, every Prophet was a means of salvation because of the Commandments and laws they have been given by the ONE GOD who sent them. That avenue of salvation that the prophet was stops, immediately the new/latest prophet came on the scene of Messengership. So Moses as the path of salvation stopped when Jesus began his ministry! But Jesus' avenue of salvation is no more from the time of the first revelation received by Muhammad!

[qd from +osisi]
says who ?
Missionary work will continue till Christ returns[/qd] and their atrocities will increase. Check out googles vidoes under religion and type in Christian missionary atrocities. Se what they are doing around the world! IN Iraq, in Afghanistan, just to name a few.
[qdof obanikoro]how are u?Did u encounter any preacher in the bus today? Hope u kept your cool and listened. If you need anytin or have questions to ask just notify on this thread. Will be willing to be of help. hoping to see you someday.[/qd] Over here Obanikoro. I have a question or two for you. How come Trinity is being preached when it was no where to be found in your Bible? How can you develop an idea that has not defined word or nothing to stand for it, since you do not have what you said stand for it in the Book where you are justifying that same word? Then tell me how do you reconcile this idea you call trinity with Biblical verses like Deut. 6:4 and Mark 12:29, which are 180 deg with it? Which is right? Which is wrong? It you have these two dynamics going on in the Book of God, would you thing that all of them are from God? None from Human? Explain it, please? Try hard hard!

[qd of +Osisi]You see how a simple problem was solved.
Now let me warn,you may get converted like Saul of Tarsus but this time it won't be on the way to damascus but on the way to Oshodi[/qd] Am waiting for your reversion, baby. The benefit for you is that you do not have to remarry. Your marriage ceremony will just be a carry over, for both of you. And I already have my names ready for the children of you guys; Amina, Jemilla, Aisha (Thats your favorite), Muhammad, Abu Bakr, Abbass, Hamzah, etc. Chose from them or have them all. Afterall, the body may just be able to handle it and still don't show.

@Debosky, KAG and Jayon: Gentle we have some problems!

I doubt God's covenant with Abraham was that all the prophets will come from his bloodline. In any case, no matter, yes Jospeh Smith is a descendant of Abraham. Don't let the location of his birth fool you; several Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel moved to America and a few found their way to Britain, so Joseph Smith was born from Jewish descendants of Abraham. What may be confusing you is that some of the people in the tribe in America turned and killed the other Jews, which meant that God had to punish them by turning their skins red - those are the people you know as the Red Indians today. I know it's all true because it says so in the Book of The Latter Day Saints, and if it says so in the book, it must be true.

Do you how wrong is if Mormon sect is the correct sect one. Therefore, all of the 'humanities,' that had passed away in the all the other are now in the lake of fire. Unfortunately, foryou and your idea, Joseph Smith happens not to be a 'Native American,' but a white man, 'WASP,' until after he had his Saul/Paul like encounter, which made him leave the Older Christian sect to formulate a new One! The failure in your theory also, is that God Almighty have confirmed that there will never be another Prophet, because the office of messengership ended with Muhammad. Finally there 'East European,' Jewry, is a convert to Judaism, but not Jew or 'Children of Israil,' by its ethnicity! That knocks it out the Box; possibility that the 'Red Indian,' are not ethnically Jew! Finally, your God punishes for all kind of infractions, yet by you, the same God will still have Israil as His people and all of you are praying for her success! Are you guys, the Christians taking into considerations, all Israil's evil deeds, even killing your god the son? In every case, however you slice it, your God will always be an unfair God, condoning others while he punishes a lot more for even a lesser sin; leaving Aaron alone, unpunished while He killed many in the scenario of the golden calf! If you do not believe the covenant with Ibrahiim as I provided it, yet you are using it to explain a possible authenticity of Joseph Smith and his sect! See how incredulous you are, flowing with whatever may look good. Your resentation has to 'Backbone!' Finally, was this not the same as the core of the covenant, from the Jews and christians looking glass? Except they are restricting it through Sarah! Obviously you do not know the history of the Red Indians! You need to go to the Reservations.

No, no, you're mistaken. Joseph Smith didn't come to destroy Christianity, he came to perfect aspects of it. Sure he's less than Jesus in God's eye, but only marginally.

And your Lord/God had allowed a horde of those people in the past before Joseph Smith worshipped Him, under the wrong Christian practices! Wow, a good god/lord he is! If all of this perfection of aspects ot it, I wonder what happens to the other aspects that Joseph Smith did not perfect? Somebody will come and perfect it, but somewhre where the 'world power' shifts at that time, say China, India? Take your pick! It can even be Obodo Nigeria, afterall, there used to be The CAC, started the Ijesha man by the name of Joseph Babalola! You see everybody is clinging to be Joseph! The capenter or son of Jacob, which one gongon? I remember Odumosu nicknamed Jesu Oyingbo in the days!

How old is Islam again?

Islam you said! Not a sect of Old hag, Christianity which is what Mormon fall into! Pych!

Then by your logic, Islam must also be a lie. Oh dear!

If your idea is just simply cancel out old by new, then the Nation of Islam or the Ten Percenters of America would be the true religion then, and the rest are lies! See how ridiculous the premise you have put forward?

Um, both the LDS and the Bahai faith are revealed religions. Both their books come from God just as directly as that of Islam.

Just because a group says it has a religion and a book does not mean that it is authentic. See how many fakes that are around since Creation of Adam? Your thoughts needed to be ignored because it fluctuates between false premises to outright fantasy!

So Muhammad added 'flavour' to make up the Quran?

Just like how Igbo will make Egusi soup or Ogbonor soup, in different flavors from the Yorubas! But has a better outcome? The One who has a better recipe, with ful ingredient! Think about that, for a moment.

finally you subtly admit that Muhammad added figments of his own imagination to 'perfect' what in his own mind was wrong, e.g. making Aaron (or Harun) as you call him infallible - he could not have made the golden calf because 'Allah didn't'

Think about it, again. Jewish God punished so much for the littliest of offenses, eg the guy who fell or stumbled while carrying the ark of the covenant, a new covenant different frm what God had earlier with Ibrahiim, yet the same God left Aaron alone, while he punished the multitude for worshipping what Aaron made in the first place! Aaron role was many. Yes, the people asked him for a god to worship, he could have resisted their temptations in the request. The same fault that Judas Iscariot had later in betraying Jesus, according to the Bible. Aaron could also had not lead or participated in the making of this evil thing. Aaron was not reported to not have ben involved in the worshipping of this golden calf. So his offenses were at least 3, while the others have at most 2. But Aaron was with Moses in all the victories of Moses from the beginning when he emerged as a Messenger to demand for the freedom of his people from Egypt. He Aaron should have been strong in faith. Yet your God commanded the killing of many and did nothing to Aaron, even as little as a scratch of his skin! It is either that your God is ridiculously partial and unfair to all mankind, because He obviously set one separate to be favored here or that Aaron didnot lead nor even participate in the bringing about the golden calf. See how easy to come to the truth directly, instead of a lie that can be explained every which way till Wednesday, yet there will be more ways to explain further?

Mo couldn't comprehend how that would happen, a priest sinning, so he remixed it.

Your effort is so ridiculous that it deserve an award; stinking award for its stench!

Who cares about Allah or muhammed ,all of them are false even the quran

Outburst. Pop goes the whizzle!

@+Osisi: It is better that I pass gas freely, than to be full of (hot) air. Oh sorry, sorry, gas! lol. You see I said the word Trinity does not appear, you did not address that portion. yet you become a stickler for details, trying to tell me that the idea of it is present in the Bible! It does not matter, because you can not define something that does not exist. If Trinity does not exist in your Book there is no way you can define it, by a supposed developed idea of it.

For example if the word Olabowale does not exist, for example the Yoruba vocabulary, there can never be an idea developed around until it become a name for a male. Know wham saying?