₦airaland Forum

@Dafidixone: Please let us rread about that 'stolen page,' of the OT. Is it in the Qur'an, bring it up side by side with the OT stolen page. Maybe you are on your third try here.

@Dafidixone:

Making heaven is a priviledge giving to man. If any man choose to ignore heaven do you think God will die?
Those people are mare specimen to humanity. I pray I will not be like anyone of those people. I also know you will not end up like them

The fact is that I will not end up like you, in your current state! However you are free to come up to my side! Afterall Islam is free and inclusive of all who wants it. Are you ready for the mound with your bat for the third pitch?

@Olrotimi:

without meaning to insulty or slight your faith, are you catholics really born again? accepting christ as your lord and not mary, and all that stuff. please clear this perceived misconception if you can

Is Jesus the Yardstick of being saved/born again? Is there a child who has more honor that his own mother? Do you know the power of the womb? Yet am not even a Christian.

Catholics are Christians, so are the offshoots who collectively call themselves Protestants. Neither has more claim to Christendom than the other! Both claim that they are worshipping God through an invented religion known as Christianity. Both add something to their worship of God. Neither worship God only. The catholics add Mother mary. The protestants add Son Jesus! Both forgot how Jesus worshipped God Almighty, his Creator. Both dis not realise that John the son of Zachariah and his father Zachariah, did not worship differently from how Jesus worshipped and no of them worshipped Jesu!

@Dafidixone: And those who have died since the 'great incedence,' with Paul without being Christians are, ? Did Jesus of the Bible, based on your statement, directly failed to accomplished his commitment, again? You are batting 2 for Zero with me. Your last chance at bat is coming up, then you would have struck out; 3 for Zero at bat!

@Oluchia: My sister, you won. Your advise is taken to heart. thank you.

@Davidylan: I wish you can read what my main man Cgist puts down on Black people: The slaves of white people. By the way, the Arabs are not truly whites, based on the opinions of the 'fake Arian nation,' the European bloodlines. If we read from the Hindu's, the symbol of Arian supremacy, the Swatstika, itself is Hindu symbols, and the Indians are a lot older than Europeans among the family of Man.

Your Nubians were blacks, descendants of Ham (the father of Cush and grand father of Nimrod), who were under the curse of their great-great---grand father, Noah due to Ham's misbehaviour after the great flood. The blacks continued to revel largely in their inordinate lifestyles and paganism which continued to put them under the curse of God despite their being under the curse of man (their father). This was the beginning of the black man's problems : Genesis 9:27; God shall enlarge Japheth, and he (Japheth) shall dwell in the tents of Shem (Jews and Arabs); and Canaan (Hamites and black race) shall be his servant (slaves).[/qote] We see that your Bible, davidylan put a curse on the Black race. This you will not find in the Qur'an! And if you can find it, I will like to see it, front and center! Finally, Alhamdulillah that Muhammad bloodline from the house of Ibrahim, has a clearly marked outline from the house of Pharaoh. This was along time before the Israelites came in to Egypt. We therefore realised that the people who were Egyptians were Black people. Looking at the condition of Hajar, we will understand that there is no way a Princess of the status from the house of Pharaoh at that time could have been given to a person, regardless of his nobility as a slave!

There goes the first 'theory/statement of the Bible,' about her status! Muhammad was reported to have a woolly/curly hair. Unlike the straight hair of the orientals or the Europeans, for the most part. It was also reported that Muhammad, when in Prostration, in Islamic prayer, his armpit will be exposed! The color of that armpit was white. It means that his armpit was lighter that his skin color. Muhammad being raised by Black African wet nurse and dark skin Halima, we do see him as dark, but European or Arian white.

By the way there are no true white color among mankind! Its very shameful that the Bible condemn noble Prophets and accuse them of various indiscretions. Take the case of Noah above. The Bible actually forgets that Noah and his daughters were not the only people saved in the boat/vessel that Noah was ordered to construct and seeked safety in. There were males and females from Mankind in it, along with the animals, (the animals the Bible never forgot to mention). There was no reason, therefore for a Prophet/Messenger of God, who God saved some and destroyed the rest of mankind from to be involved in incest! God would not let something like that happen. Afterall, there were women who were not his daughters or his sisters from among the saved.

And we did not know if marriage between siblings was forbidden at that time, which the children of Adam and Eve practiced!

@Dafidixone: You know am right. So you are lost for words and all you can do is Grin! I understand. So much for the Trinity, the part god, part man and all prophet and son of the Virgin Mary. You better save your own hide from Hellfire. You will shocked when you find out that Jesus was no more than Prophet/Messenger of God and only a Messiah to the Children of Israel, only. And believe me, that was before the Prophet/Mesenger of God to all Mankind came!

@Rotimy:

I think MICRO=OVEN christians would have been better than indomiee.
Many want the blessings of Abraham to be theirs but only a few want to pay the prize like Abraham!

But Abraham was not a Christian. Until you are in the religion of Abraham, his blessings can not reach you. Even if you sacrefice a bigger sacrifice than him, you will be msiing something: Abrahamic religion. Go find it and you will see how easy it is to be successful, in the sight of the God of Abraham, The Creator Himself!

@Chukz4real: Permit me to say that Islam is 'Bigger' than Zaria where you went to school! Indeed, Islam is Bigger than The whole of the world! And Nigeria is just a small part of the world, if you know what I mean. The whole Northern Nigeria is just a part of Nigeria and Zaria is just a part of the North!

Your assertion that the Muslims could kill the whole world, if permitted, is nothing but a 'feiry tale!' I should know, I am a Muslim. I must know a thing or two more than you about this noble religion. If Muslims are inherently given to killings as you are alluding in your post, above, I wonder how there remained any Jews or Christians or animist in the middle east and in any part of the world where Islam was dominating, in the golden days of Islam? I wonder how there are Jews in Morocco, even as they reemigrated back from Israel, the so called 'Jewish homeland?"

Be real, as per your name.

@Cgift: {quote]Matthew 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Jesus too much jo![quote][/quote]Yeah! Too much to have been praying for reprieve and being saved from the calamity at the Garden of Geshemine! Too much, that we read that there was a cry of 'My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?' Why ask why, when you are already ready for the 'Scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?' Can you make any sense of the double talk or the instability of faith here? The death did not happen and therefore there was no scripture to be fulfilled. If any is it is simply to confuse your illfated heart that has no good faith about truth guidance in it.

Bawo ni, Cgift. Ore sha ni wa, abi, omo yaa!

@Horus:

If I question your God because he is God and there is no other God beside him, he should be able to withstand my simple mortal questions. I should not be a threat to your God, Dr. Rashad Khalifa should not have been a threat to the Sunni Muslim to the point where they had to stab him, that was a sign that they were weak. Blowing up the World Trade Center that you and everyone else goes to. Those type of symbols are a sign that you are weak. Blowing up planes and killing innocent tourists is a sign that your God has no power of his own, because if he has power, he takes care of it, not your hand on the knife, not your hand on a bomb.

While you are at it, you forgot to mention the Pentagon with the destruction that was so ferocious that the whole Plane evaporates without a trace of any of its parts. You forgot that there was no thorough investigation of the world trade centre wreckage. America is a society where things are done with meticulous and painstaking investgation! The Oklahoma city bombing investigation was a good example.

What happened to the world trade centre and pentagon cases? Why were the steel carted off to China steel mills? Almost without any investigation? Every evil is one too many!

@SysUser: If we are to take your 'work' of explanation of 'his people,' from the bible to be true of Jesus who was born of flesh, to be true as to mean the whole of Mankind or every color and creed, then we have to assume therefore that Jesus did not do his Job correctly! First, he restricted his preachings to the Children of Israel alone and ordered his followers to do so! Jesus aught to know who he was sent to more than you, Johnny come later by close to 2000 years and far from the source of knowledge, because you live in Yoruba land of Nigeria! You never have in your life seen a true record of what Sleeping Joseph recorded as soon as he woke up to take 'his wife,' the pregnant Virgin Mary. Even though he 'knew him not,' your Bible did not put into consideration of the Semitic culture of Marriage at that time! To be living with a person you are not yet married to is a no no. To be married and do not consumate the marriage the very first day is also a no no! So Joseph can not be living with this virgin and married to her and did not consumate the marriage, the very first night!

If he knew the very first day that she was pregnant already, she will not be spending the night with him under the same roof! From the simple look of the natural process of relationship, in ancient cultures, your Bible writer did not do a good and possible job in the exegesis of the relationship between Pregnant Mary and Capenter Joseph! Now, again, if Jesus was for all the whole world he did not do a good Job and he failed miserably by not carrying his missionary duties beyond the Children of Israel! He also misinform his associates so, while he had 3 years to do it. Not the father nor the holy ghost reminded him of this mistake of not carrying the Good news to the rest of the world! he did not even try the Arabs who were so close to his neighborhood!

Finally, we must then assume whereever we find any prophet being instructed to tell his people something, it must be that he has been instructed to tell the whole world, and not just his tribe or country! Moses therefore must have been told to safe the whole world/mankind from under the oppression of Pharaoh and those peskey Egyptians! See the weak argument you present, passing it for something worth while?

Finally, because Jesus was called Emmanuel, meaning 'God with us,' does not mean anything other than it is name; God with us! Godwin as a name in Nigeria symbolises just that, a name! Oluwasegun in Yoruba is just that a name. Chukwuma in Igbo means just that, a name. (+Osisis, I did not forget you in this matter.)

My esteem SysUser, find another process, this is not doing it for you. Its riddled in fallacy!

@Bobbyaf: Yardee, may disagree with you as to the definition of Soul, and the definition of Spirit, but I have to commend you for your boldness. You argue sensibly. Unfortunately, you are using the wrong material source. Of course, it is the only one you know. Mind you, it is an already diluted, weak product of the Pure Original.

Let me ask you guys a question. When God made Adam from the dust before blowing the breath of life into him, how would you describe Adam? Imagine Adam's intact body with all its organs just lying there fresh from God's doing.

Lets look at the record in Genesis 2:7, And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being

Was he a soul before the breath of life entered? Absolutely not! Now listen as Solomon spoke about what happens to man when he dies, Ecclesiastes 12:7, Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, And the spirit will return to God who gave it.

Most translations if not all agree that the word "spirit" means "breath of life". It is this breath of life that departs us when we die. When we take our last breath, the spirit goes back to God.

If your response is that man became a living soul after the breath entered his body, then why is it so difficult to see that if the reverse takes place man can no longer be a living soul? There can not be an entity with any form of awareness or consciousness. This spirit cannot therefore be seen as either a person, being, creature, or any other entity whatsoever.

It is important for us to take note of the word "soul". In the context of this discussion we'd have to define soul as meaning being or person in terms of how we see Genesis 2:7, In other words Genesis says man became a living soul. He doesn't really possess a soul. The word soul as used in Genesis is the composite of body and breath of life. So if we were to use an equation to highlight what it is trying to say we'd have:

Body + Breath of life(spirit) = soul or being, or creature. Put another way we have:

Soul = body + spirit

Using simple commense sense we should see that if the factor body from the equation disappears then what are we left with? Certainly not Soul = spirit. Once there is no body there can be no existence of a soul.

The body descends to the dust, and the spirit goes back to God in heaven, hence no more existence of a soul.

QED,

Thank you Bobbyaf! There it is, those of you in the Christendom trying to tell us that man is made of three elements, combined and all of them are present in a living person, can now see that Bobbyaf has put your hypothesis to shame! There is no three parts to One man. From Bobbyaf, a livig soul which means a man alive consists of body + Spirit!

But when the living spirit dies (the man who was alive is now dead), it seems as from Bobbyaf that the SPIRIT is separated from the Body. Therefore there is a dead soul (Soul dies, according to Bobbyaf, from his material source; the Protestant Bible. Probably KJV!), and what remains is lifeless Body!

See how weak or turnover its head the Trinity argument is when a Spiritually uneducated person is paralleling it with what man is made of. Living soul means body and spirit. It could also mean living body with a spirit or spirit alive in a body or living spirit. Is there any possibility here that I could be wrong?

Whats so interesting though, is that there is a part of this dead man that is still alive. But that living part can not function, unless it is fused with the body! So apply the same to dead Jesus, 1/3 god. It means that the 2/3 god remaining could not do anything and function as god! If through all of the time that the Christians claimed that Jesus was dead, there was a God fully functioning as God, then Jesus must not have been important to this God's ability and capability to fully function. Hence, I submit to you the enlightened people of Nairaland and to the world at large, that just because the Christians call or say Jesus is part of god; 1/3 god, son of god, does not mean it is so and that that it is absolutely true. From the above, we see that the role of Jesus in the Power capability of God to be God is Zero and unimportant, whether Jesus is alive or dead!

Those who are adovating 'acceptence by faith,' without any litmus test and observation, inference and hard fact conclusion are truly believers of anything, as long as it is dressed up fancifully! They are truly disbelievers of true faith therefore!

Kettle calling pot black: Dont forget the Armageddon euphoric grand daddy of all wars that you Christians are going to wage with those who do not 'believe,' in death and ressurrection! Whats happening now is Baby wars, even though cluster bombs, bunker busters are being used. And yet there are still Nuclear bombs, piled up to the ceiling, ready for usage at any moment notice.

Tell me who is the greater destroyer? Which camp presently has the ability to destroy with total destruction?

@Focused: What did you do when +Osisi lambasted Yoruba people above? Where is the Christian Country: The Vatican City? There is now a Masjid in the Piazza? Alhamdulillah, if there is. InshaAllah, there will be one, if its there already! O fi ete sile, o npa lapa lapa! You do not have Donkeys are not Muslims! Donkey in Islam connotes people who are not Muslims, for they know that there is true spiritual knowledge, yet they fail to seek it. I am not a one that will tell you that there are no Muslim behaving badly. But in all at least, he/she is not calling a man God Almighty!

@Chatykrew:

@ife
weldone you have quite a long list, you do well,
but wait what makes a christian christian?
is it because you have a CHRISTIAN NAME?
is it because you had a CHRISTIAN parents?
or what, oh muslim believe that once you are born a muslim you automatically become a muslim??
wel from what i know is A CHRISTIAN is one that believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Died for my sins and the World, Resurected and seated in Heaven, and have the Spirit of God.
that is a christian from what i know, i can say all those so called christian that converted really did what i did,

: I have met born Muslims, with full Muslim parentage, still carrying Muslim names, but they are the Chief Keferis of today, in home and abroad. A good example is Ashimolowo in England. The fakery of that guy. But thats beside the point. Everyone is born a Muslim, because of the Sinlessness of man at birth! This is regardless of the parentage. However, it is the parent that makes that sinless new person, to remain in Islam, even though as he reaches the age of puberty, his deeds are being recorded, or becomes a disbeliever (Keferi). Later on, because of the enviroment that he cultivated his total person, he may die as a believer or a disbeliever (Keferi). And the Muslims believe that your concorted story and positioning of Jesus, as you have defined him above, is a lie. He was his mother's son, though fatherless, but still created by God Almighty, in the same authority that He had in the creation of Adam, then Eve, and all that came before Jesus and after jesus, until the last man! Jesus did not die and hence no sin of anyone did he absorb. You have to die first before you are resurrected. If you are in a coma, then you are resucitated.

This dude has made heaven looked as if one is in a theater, where there are seating arrangements, in gradation of importance. Heaven is not a theater or the church, where there some who who are seated at the High table! At least, when you talk about Jesus, you are smart enough to differentiate him from his Creator. Unfortunately, you still have not learnt that he is no son of god, because just do not have any need for one! Having the spirit of god does not make him God. If at all it simply means that God has favored him, and he will not be punished, even though you call him what he is not. He never asked you to call him so! He is free from all that you call him!

Olabowale 2 things you shld know:
1. Learn how to quote well
2. be organised in your riposte, not just rambling around and leaving us a long meaningless tome. It is a headache to extract anything from the above.
I will however point out a few things:

Stop complaining, david. If I didn't know you well, I could easily mistake you for a 'Elejo wewe!' I do not have to follow any writing rule. Just get what concerns you or your 'religion/way: Christianity.'

Thou hypocrite . . . the FBI was involved in the manhunt to track down all members of the CULTS above . . . many of the FBI officers are christians . . . point out just ONE islamic nation that seriously hunts down terrorists and suicide bombers instead of hailing them as martyrs.

You are very dishonest, you child of (belial; I feel terrible calling you that, because i do not know what it means, not that i care, but just paying you back in your own dirty coins. Probably you enjoy being called that!~ Its your world, brother man. Am just living in it!) That cult, branch Davidian, believed that they were Christians. Just the same way the Protestants cult sect you belong to, believe that you guys are Christians. All of yur (my ebonics) are cultists. But different styles and applications. You forgot what the CIA calls 'renditions?' Go learn about it and while you at it learn about Egyptian government, Turkish government and Pakistani government, on what you call 'terrorism!'

again thou hypocrite! Most of those dead in Iraq today were killed by muslims. The US is in Iraq primarily to stop terrorists NOT muslims (who unfortunately supply the world's suicide bombers).
If the US were indeed leading the charge of fight against muslims, you liar sir would long have been deported!

Tooshey! Your hypocritical mindset bothers on outright dishonesty! And Iraq was just doing fine prior to August of 1990! Iraq was the darling of the USA, against the Ayatollah of Iran. David, you are talking bad talk now. Go learn about the history of the Middle east and Parsia, before you start talking, ignorantly, Nigerian Christian mindset! You forgot about the Asia/Orient where Suiide Bombers as a process has its roots.

thou hypocrite . . . are the arab colonizers now better than the English simply because they are now living in North Africa? Where are the indigenous nubian peoples of north africa today? Where are the coptic christians of Egypt?
where are the proud descendants of the black pharaohs?
Most have been exterminated and the rest pushed to the fringes of society, bereft of all rights life.

Do you know any othe expression than 'thou hypocrite?' I know its the Bible thing! The Nubians are in Sudan and you hate them, so much!

The rest are serving as slaves to your arab masters in mauritius.
So much for a peace loving religion.

I Olabowale (Omo Pakulopa) does not have a human master. That dishonor belongs to you for choosing Jesus as master/lord/god/son of god/1/3 god. Whatever, as long as it is different from the true position of Jesus with his Lord Allah the Almighty is a lie that you have told on him. And your punishment will begin from at the point of death. This is what I want you to see, because I truly want success for you!

Olabowole talking about slavery,he forgot that slavery is still alive and well in many Muslim countries today.
They even castrated their male slaves a practice that caused the death ot thousands of male African slaves who were mainly their targets.

There is no Islamic/ Muslim country on earth. I should know, I am a Muslim, and you are not, baby. There were, you have seen Islam clearly organised and shariah would be applied to Muslims alone. The evildoers will find their just rewards with God, regardless of what religion, and whether they claim to be His chilldren or Slaves/Servants!

It wasn't until 2007 that Mauritania,a Muslim country declared slave dealing a crime.
Arab Muslims started slavery long before the Europeans set foot in Africa.
Muhammad owned slaves for crying out loud and slept with his female slaves.
So much for the morality of a prophet.

Mauritania is not a Muslim country. Hello, +osisi! You daughter of belail. You lie too much. You will be with your hubby and be thinking in your heart, 'what kinda lie can I concort up against the darn Muslims and their religion today?' I hope you don't search under the bed, when the moment is right, looking for unfounded remnant of pockets of lies you have in the house against Islam! Remember am working on plenty igbo people and this is not Awolowo talking!

Muslim apologists like Olabowole are quick to point at the transatlantic slavery but it's good to hear the truth.
Here it is.
The Arab slave trade from East Africa is one of the oldest slave trades, predating the European transatlantic slave trade by hundreds of years.[35] Male slaves who were often made eunuchs were employed as servants, soldiers, or laborers by their owners, while female slaves, mostly from Africa, were long traded to the Middle Eastern countries and kingdoms by Arab and Oriental traders, some as concubines and others as servants. Arab, African, and Oriental traders were involved in the capture and transport of slaves northward across the Sahara desert and the Indian Ocean region into the Middle East, Persia, and the Indian subcontinent.
From approximately 650 CE until around 1900 CE the Arab slave trade continued in one form or another. The Moroccan Sultan Moulay Ismail "the Bloodthirsty" (1672-1727) raised a corps of 150,000 black slaves, called his Black Guard, who coerced the country into submission.[36] Historical accounts and references to slave-owning nobility in Arabia, Yemen and elsewhere are frequent into the early 1920s.[37] In 1953, sheikhs from Qatar attending the coronation of Queen Elizabeth II included slaves in their retinues, and they did so again on another visit five years later.[38] As recently as the 1950s, the Saudi Arabia’s slave population was estimated at 450,000 — just 20% of the population.[39][40] It is estimated that as many as 200,000 black Sudanese children and women had been taken into slavery in Sudan during the Second Sudanese Civil War.[41][42] Slavery in Mauritania was legally abolished by laws passed in 1905, 1961, and 1981.[43] It was finally criminalized in August 2007.[44] It is estimated that up to 600,000 black Mauritanians, or 20% of the Mauritania’s population, are currently enslaved, many of them used as bonded labour.[45]
For some people, any mention of the slave-trading past of the Arab world is rejected as an attempt to minimise the transatlantic trade. Yet a slave trade in the Indian Ocean, Red Sea, and Mediterranean pre-dates the arrival of any significant number of Europeans on the African continent.[46][47]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade

Good material! Now lets try to eliminate all forms of slavery; man against man, man selling himself as underclass/inferior to another man, whom is propped up as son or part god. But while at it, he/she ignored God and transfers the duties of God to this propped up entity.

+osisi, you see your problem now? Good night Alice!

@Noetic:

It all actually depends on the way u look at it.
If u look at it from the islamic point of view, He definitely doesnt need a Son. y?
because he has slaves, to whom he gave a prophet called mohammed.
and as slaves they are entitled to no inheritance or special priviledges from the master,
maybe some lucky slaves.

There is nothing like luck in Islam. Instead it is fortune and thats better. Have you heard a Yoruba proverb that goes something like this, 'Ti a ba ka eru, inu eru aba je?' This goes to those of you who are claiming to be sons/daughters of God and then you are going through a 'begotten son,' to establish a relationship with Him. You will be shocked in the day of Judgement when you are told that you are nothing more than a common slave, but because you have not served your Master well, 'go to Hellfire!' Come off the arrogance, brother man! Your arrogance brings to mind the case of Pharaoh, who called himself god, and you are familiar with his end, without the minute details that the Bible did not mention? Please my brother do not make your case similar to his. Why would your father god put you or anyone who thinks like you about being his son, or daughter, in fire of Hell as a means of punishment, except you are not really his child!

If u look at it from the Christian point of view,
the isrealites (before the advent of Jesus) were never refered to as slaves, they were His chosen people,
abraham was His friend,
moses was the meekest to Him,
and David was the man after His heart. No slave would have enjoyed any of these priviledges.
when the blood of their sacrifices could not atone for their sins anymore, then the Son came into the picture.

And you culled all that you said from the Bible, both Old and new testaments, right? We have proven it that the Bible is impure, diluded, full of human errors and influences, always changing and never stable. Therefore the statements from it are not reliable, except when and only when it is litmus tested and vetted by the unchanging Book, called Al Qur'an. So just saying that somebody is special to God Almighty, there is a pricetag attached to it. It is not just a carte blanche! No sir, the so called 'chosen people,' had long time fallen out of favor. If you do not know it by now, I am hereby confirming it to you. It simply shows that you are out of step with the instructions of the Almighty! Abraham remained friend of God Almighty by being obedient and seeking His Mercy. Abraham was faithful and constant in it. Abraham was not an Israelite, but a great grandfather of them! He had two branches of family; from his first and at a time his only son, Ischmael and then his baby brother, Issac, the second son, never an only son, even though he was from the first wife. All of them were slaves/servant and creations of God Almighty. They never disobeyed Him. If it was ever recorded to be so, it has to come from the Bible, and remember that I said it is not reliable, right? (Evidently you never heard of what we call "House N----r," in USA within the black community). The point is this if you call yourself anything, it does not matter to God! What matter is what He calls you! He said you are a servant/slave, if you call yourself a Prince, it will not matter. In the long run, when you die, you will need His Mercy and at that time, what you call yourself will mean Zero and has no weight!

so attempting to analyse God`s thoughts or the purpose of his actions is a tragedy on anyone`s part. attempting to put human logic behind his actions is nullity. His ways are not ours, neither are His thoughts.
cheers

I wished you apply the same principle of 'God independence,' to a rational thought about your Creator. Without wanting to sound sarcastical about it all, I always wonder who was important to the god of the Christians: his wife Mary or his son Jesus? To the catholic, it his wife mary, being the wife of father god and being the mother of son god. She suckled the son god and of course, it is her body the father god mounted! You will see that what I have done is to put forward a process that your human mind can grab. By so doing, just maybe, you may realse that God does not need a wife or a son to conduct the affairs of His creations! he can do it all, with using any of the creations and jesus was a creation: He lived, and delvered his ordained/commanded errants!

She is a Yoruba woman. So we spoke to each other in real Oduduwa tradition. But what about the Igbo Princess, who Allah softened her heart, while she had once hated Islam? She told me that when she hears the call to prayers before she met me, she will have a headache. Just complaining about Islam until its over. When she sees a person performing ablution, her skin will be crawling and she almost will jump from her skin! All of these were happening in her head, until All Merciful brought her to my life! She wanted to take her Shahadah right there and then! See Allah is Powerful and everything else is weak!

You are right. I am an unbeliever in 3 in 1 god and the shedding of innocent blood to ransome evildoers, who will become good people and do righteous worship and deeds! Wouldn't it be simple enough to justcommand people to worship rightly and do good deeds, instead of just wasting the life of this innocent man, who reluctantly went to the slaughter?Or if you are going to be just, just forgive them all in their evildoing ways, since you required the blood of this innocent lamb!

In short, you will see that it there is any death at all, it has been in vain! The reason is that it does not cover all in their filthy ways, it does not cover any who believes in this slaughter, except the changes his evil way, it does not guarantee Paradise, but maybe heaven to those who believe in the slaughter.

And we realise that in heaven there are Paradise and Hellfire. Which one is the destination of the Christains? Further, we see that apart from just believing in this slaughter, Christians do not have a completely common mode of worship that everyone, every sect, every society follow. So you go as many desired directions as you want for your group! The Aladuras and CAC of Nigeria are very good examples. The Seventh day adventist, Jehovah witnesses and Jesuits are also good examples.

Yes again, am a disbeliever in the death, cross, blood, resurrection, etc and oh, the diluted/'lost' Bible! But you, davidylan and co are Keferi. That you can not deny! I have a mode of worship, which is salah. There is no Muslim that will say salah is not commanded on him and still remain a Muslim. I have a Jumuah Prayer. No true Muslim can deny its existence and therefore chose another time for its service. I can give you a trillion examples like that; differentiating Islamic ordered premises, and Christianity do as you want, meandering premises!

@Dejiman:

Different people with Different doctrines. ok review John 3:16 how could a father turn is Son to a Slave?
Please be very careful may God have mercy on us all and give us Understanding.
Jesus Christ is the True Son of God.

Not only is your review based on false materials. But as an idea only, it begs honesty. Considering that God is always alive and never dies, you will realise that there was no need of Him to have a son. Procreation is an act design by God for the creations, because they will die off, at the appointed time. The process of birth of offsprings by matured creature which will die off after completing its natural process of life, will continue until God decides to end it, and recreate man, to stand for Judgement! If God were to have a son, the purpose of that son will be meaningless: God is the One that creates, preserves and terminates life!

He is the One who will recreates it for Judgement, and He is the One that Judges and determines who will receive Mercy from Him as being forgiven of all shortcomings and rewarded instead with paradise for goodly efforts. On the other side of it, He is the one that will give Justice to those who have transgressed to much that they die on the act of transgression. Only He determines who among them do not deserve His Mercy, but His Just Punishment of them.

So when you look at it, with a full heart, without the preconditioning of your Bible or your pastors or your zealot shepherds, you will see that the notion of sonship of God is pure fallacy and really serves no purpose. God can handle all affairs, without the aid of anything!

@+osisi: Considering the population of the Africans at that time, they almost depleted/desimated the African peple by Tranatlantic slave trade. Am sure you are never ashamed of that, or rather it did not bother your conscience, because of the 'slave masters,' being mostly White Christians. You adore them. (I have to laugh, because of how I entrapped you, this time!). If the population of the current 'Islamic slavery is 25 M,' according to you (A single man/woman in slavery is one too many and it saddened me), we have to condider the significance of it, to the 11 M of over 100 years ago. Considering that Nigeria was just a little more that 60 M in 1960, we see that it is about 150 M and climbing, in just less than 50 years! let us then consider what 11 Million people will mean today, if we accelerated it for at least 100 years; so eevery 50 years, it arithmetically increased 5/2. We can then say that it is close to 70 Millions, at least!

@Davidylan: God will make my condition on the Walk way easy. It is you that am worried about. And also the Igbo lady! And indeed, all of yah.

@Davidylan:Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
: Is Isa of Qur'an different from the Jesus of the Bible? Are they not from Mariam, the Young Virgin from Jesrusalem, under the guardianship of Zachariah, the father of John, who the Christians call the 'Baptist?' If the assertion of slave position of Isa of the Qur'an is correct, then we truly have One God. If the assertion of part god position of Jesus of the Bible is correct, then we truly have Multiple Gods. Please what do we have One God or More than One God?

Both are clearly different . . . you can import all the biblical stories and force them into your quranic piffle but there is ONE CLEAR DIFFERENCE between the 2 . . . the bible Jesus Christ laid down His life on the cross for our sins, the one in the quran is simply a snivelling plagiarised non-existent creation of a cult seeking to legitimise its message of doom.

On one hand you refused to take responsibility for your own salvation, therefore you are dropping it on the lap of the 'Bible jesus.' On the other hand if any Christians who believed in this 'Bible Jesus,' commits enough evil deeds, will be be in Paradise, am sorry 'heaven,' because I was told Christians prefer heaven than paradise, or he/she will end up in 'lake of fire,' since this is what you call Hellfire? In the long run,if you truly think, you will see that everyone is responsibible for his or her own destiny, under the Mercy of God or under the Justice of God! Is it not in your Bible that that you have at least a verse talking about no one will bear the iniquity of other? Think! You can even slice Jesus of the Bible into how many parts that may make you happy, from full god, to 1/3 part god, to son god, to prophet, and to son of man. His position with is Creator is firm. All that you say of him, will not change it. And if Islam is a cult, then, I am a cultish, humbly bowing my will to the Lord of that cult!

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
Evidently, if you think that the 13 years of oppression in Makka and the first 2 years of no fights that followed in Madina, did not show any restraints, since you do not believe that was peace seeking Prophet, then tell me what a Prophet to do when his Lord commands him to fight? Remember Moses in the Bible? Did he have any choice in the matter?

nonsense! it is well documented in history that mohammed's period of "peace seeking" where simply those periods when he was militarily weaker and to pursue war would have led to his defeat . . . wasnt it that period that allah revealed that lie about no compulsion in religion?
After he got strong enough to fight suddenly allah now commanded him to fight? Fight for what?

If this was the case, when he became very strong, there were still non Muslims in Madina, and they were not killed off or sacked out of the town. Yet as Makka was conquered, there was no mass killing carried out. Did you read that part in History or yoy just want to pretend about? I wish you learn honesty in speech! I know its very difficult for you.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
But has not heard of Timothy McVay, the foundamentalist!

thou hypocrite; tim mcveigh was an atheist and did not quote the book of deuteronomy as reasons for committing his crime for which he was duly punnished . . . in islamic nations, terrorists are hailed as martyrs. That is the difference.

davidylan thou the biggest of all hypocrites! Remember this is Christian country? You forgot and I got to remind you! I am not going to talk about other folks. I guess you forgot that his beef with the US Government was the David Koresh and the davidian Christian Issues of Waco Texas.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
If Christianity is peace, then why all the present day wars? Why did we have the Crusades to Jerusalem?

1. When did the "crusades" become "present day wars"? So your own "present day" is still in the 12th century? Explains why islam is so backward.
2. The incursion into Jerusalem was primarily to drive out the muslim INVADERS! Why are you not crying about the islamic hoodlums who laid seige to jerusalem BEFORE the crusades thou hypocrite?

Tell me who is leading the charge of fights against which religion today: How many people are dead in Iraq now? Let us just stop there! Is this an eye for an eye, or for my eye, I got to take your whole face and while am at it your fingers, too. David, my 'son,' be real. We are not children. Google it yourself, video under religion, type Christian Missionary atrocities; watch a whole bunch of them about Iraq and Afghanistan, just to name a few. Do not be unmindful, that God Almighty know, sees and hears everything! Be just and practice justice as a person. Do not have any mob mentality. It is destructive!

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
Why the many incursionsto black nations; colonizations, etc?

thou hypocrite . . . colonization by Europeans ended decades ago . . . arab colonization of Africa continues till tomorrow. Just take a look at North Africa!

I know about North Africa. I have friends in those countries. I also visit these places. Your problem is that even though you and me are the same Yoruba, we are talking to each other in English and not in Yoruba! You are a post independence and I am preindependce, yet, there is no improvement to bring us back to our precolonial Yoruba. You know why, because you are blind to the evil of the colonizers because they are Christians, thats why. Afterall, the Arabs are now living in North Africa. The Colonizers pilage your society and left it ruined for you and they left, back to Europe! Did you forget the struggle of the Algerians against the French, your Christian brothers and sisters/ Did you, eh, david?

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
Why indeed slvery to the 'new worlds?'

Ask the arab slave masters in Mauritius!

My friend Adama Ngaide is a political person, from Mauritania. He is a Fulani of Torodo clan. I know about these things. There is no Qur'anic justification for it. If the US and other western nations are eager to liberate people, without the lies of freedom on one hand and Jesus on the other, I will love to see them in Mauritania!

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
Why the Bible on one hand and the Sword on another?

If indeed there was a sword no muslim will be living in christian nations today . . . including dishonest liars like you. Try living as an open christian in saudi arabia and come here to talk to us about bibles and the sword.

You are not a Muslim, so you can talk about the plight of Muslims in the'Christian nations.' I on the other hand am a Muslim and I know. Regardless of your status, you simply have to know your limit, as a Muslim, otherwise, sombody will be saying something to you.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
Let the religion stands on its own, without the cajoling and the naked white women, showing there cleavages in there tatooed bodies, to the salivating ignorant Africans;

Thou hypocrite, let your own religion stand on its own without the threats, violence and subjugation.

Thou Jahal/daddy of hypocracy, bring not lies to people, who believed that your intentions were wholesome, yet your agenda is devilist. Afeje pupa sinu, a tuto funfun jade. David, I have a ton of them. I haven't lost a step, brother man.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
The name Muhammad, or Ahmad was not written, but his traces are in there! Its like Ragu pasta sauce; its in there!

At least here is one thing you got right. Muhammad indeed is in the bible . . . especially in areas dealing with false prophets and anti-christs.

I dare not sy anything bad about a prophet of God. That in itself will culmunate my being a disbeliever; I will become a Keferi right there and then. However, the hands of men have changed what God Almighty gave to the prophets in the Bible. Then after jesus left, we have acts of apostles and others to the end of the Bible as 'addition.' This simply changed it from pure to impure! So am not surprised about is inbetween the two covers; Impure in many ways!

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
Christian god must be very active. Going about sleeping with women married to every Christian man! This is adultery or boldface 'I can take your wife and you can not do anything about it!'

thou hypocrite and blasphemous son of belial . . . All sins are forgiven except that against the Holy Ghost . . . may the Lord forgive you.
While we are at it, we know of one "prophet" who married 6yr olds, stole his nephew's son (by the "revelations" of allah), raped slaves and was given the sexual strength of 30 men . . . guess who that demon is.

Olabowale had a Yoruba parentage. Unless belial was a Yoruba man, then, just maybe you could be right. But Alhaji died some 40 something years ago! So sorry belial does not apply to my late father. May Allah make him from the people of the Highest level of Paradise, Amin. And so all the late Muslims and Muslimas. Sins against son of god and god of Christian 3persons of 1 God do not matter if I read you correctly? You know little about the subject matter concerning Prophet Muhammad (as) and Zaid bin Thabit. You write verything wrongly. So I will let you wallow in that ignorance, for a moment, there. Even me, for my age i have strength that is somewhat higher than the normal man. I guess every Muslim is like that. I will make it easy for you; I will say it is the Samson effect.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 10:55:57 AM
So while will your father condemn you to hellfire, if you are worth anything to him, rather if you are truly his child?

Afraid of the hatman decree in Sura 17:91?

Thedecree covers, every soul, male or female, Muslim or non Muslim. I am working on my being able to traverse it by the mercy of Allah, in lightening speed. You on the other hand, will just fall in or driven into it. Call it 'lake of fire,' sinec Hellfire bothers you so much. You should let your heart think about it for a moment, then maybe you will realise tht you are in th wrong camp.

Davidylan, I know alot of Nigerians who are scared of their Christian parents, because these children have inclinations to becoming Muslims. I have been having dialogues off the board, you know! If +osisi had relaxed, today she will be a Muslim woman. She will be wearing silk Abayas, fancy jewelries and all. But the old traditions of hating Islam, probably because those who are considered muslims in the old country stick to the ribs too much. Its like good food to a hungry folk. And David, shed that facade, and lets talk, man to man, without the whole world knowing your 'Buuziness.'

Be surprised. God Almighty can surprise you. You are just a step away from becoming Muslim. And the senior wife was married to a very influencial Muslim, in Nigeria, for over 25 years, before she became a widow. In all those years she was a christian. So it is not that I did anything, it is just that the time was up. Your time may just be up, if you let you and me talk to each other as friends, off the board. Afterall, you have my information; use it, dave!

And David: Oun to ba jo oun la fi nwe oun. Aron ope o jo alabawun. It is what is similar to the issue of discussion that I used to illustrate the matter. You will read that I had mentioned the current state of war that we find ourselves, today. However, do you have anything that is relevant to the topic! Okay let me start: My present wives, One Yoruba and the other Ibo were both Christians when I met them. Alhamdulillah, they are both Muslims, today! The ibo woman is totally immensed in it! Surprised? hardly, such is the way of the Most Merciful. He is capable of doing all things!

Am working on some Hausa fathered but other tribes mothered people who know nothing about Islam. I am dialoguing with them, without being overbearing. My process is that they should present their Christianity to me, as if they are selling it. Then they should let me ask questions, and they should try to answer these questions, even if they have to ask for understanding from others, like their Church leaders. That will be fine with me.

We can do this for months and when they realise that they are selling a defective product, then let me present my Islam to them. And they can ask a ton of questions and I will have the same opportunity as to answer or ask my 'Imam,' since I mentioned pastor, for the Christians. This process can drag on for a while, and in the long run,we all have the right to accept or reject! No problem. You and me can do the same, off the Nairaland board! Maybe you can convince me and maybe I will by Allah's will make your heart receive Iddayah; Guidance, that is.

Every non muslim has his/her own definition of Allah! They individually, have their discription of the Most Merciful! It is His Mercy being the Most is the reason they have not been destroyed, yet. He feeds them, even though they attach some other thing with Him, or just total deny His existence. Yet, none of what they take instead of Him or along with Him can truly help or harm anything! The sole decision of what a life any would lead, is Allah's alone! No Angel, no Prophet, no son of man, or whatever shares in this! Indeed, no creation can truly utter it! Everyone needs Him, yet He needs no one! This is Allah the Creator of all things.

@Davidylan: Your speeches belong to where it belong to. Say something that makes sense. Just don't attack without a good presentation that will show that there is a thought behind it! I know that you are a one way street man. Please make use of that street. Give us a good argument. I want it to come from you, just one time. Not just the bravado that make no sense, whats so ever! So if the Jews or all of these tribes and nations of people did it and still being done as we speak my the people and nations in power, why the complaint of your man about Islam and indeed why are you complaining? david think, before you respond. Don't just do it, like the Nike commercial.

See I did not yell at you. But I almost did.

your first post in nairaland, and all you can say is something close to nonesense. very pathetic!
@topic
while I am not a fan of religious imposition, allowing this topic to move on un-abated is inescusable.
saying Jesus is a slave of God, reflects your mentality and orientation. very sad!
My case is this,
Isa was mentioned in the Quran, whatever u think of him is your business, but to relate him to Jesus in the Bible, is latter day madness.

: Is Isa of Qur'an different from the Jesus of the Bible? Are they not from Mariam, the Young Virgin from Jesrusalem, under the guardianship of Zachariah, the father of John, who the Christians call the 'Baptist?' If the assertion of slave position of Isa of the Qur'an is correct, then we truly have One God. If the assertion of part god position of Jesus of the Bible is correct, then we truly have Multiple Gods. Please what do we have One God or More than One God?

using simple logic, let us assume God is false, let us assume we are all products evolution. don't you in your right thinking sense think that numerous crimes have been commited against humanity in the name of islam?
how do u explain a religion, where the messenger and message contradict each other.

It seems as this guy has so much respect for Jesus than God the Creator of Jesus!

u say islam is a religion of peace, was mohammed a man of peace? are his descendants and followers in their hundreds of million, men and women of peace? what moral justification do u give to a religion where its members create chaos, kill others, ruin lives and hoping to reap peace in paradise, in return?

Evidently, if you think that the 13 years of oppression in Makka and the first 2 years of no fights that followed in Madina, did not show any restraints, since you do not believe that was peace seeking Prophet, then tell me what a Prophet to do when his Lord commands him to fight? Remember Moses in the Bible? Did he have any choice in the matter? My man you should be asking this same questions you are asking the fragmented muslims, who are not calling for the Unity of Muslims worldwide, to the Christian nations which make it their callings to bring the fights, no 'democracy/ freedom and spread of liberty to the world. If this is true, you will not be preaching Jesus to the vanguished, in Afghanistan, Irag and whereever!

true, you say not all muslims are extremists, but i don't know and havent heard of any Christian who has killed, kidnapped, terrorised, ruined lives and homes in the name of the bible or as a commandment of Christ.

When they do it, in todays world, they keep the jesus under wrap! This is the hypocracy of your people and the religion that elevated a man to god! There is no truth that comes out of any falsehood. It is true you have individually good people in it, but the collective agenda nd religion is to the shayatin! Of course we have evil people in Islam too. Look at Abacha and Babangida, to just name a few that you will be very familiar with, as Nigerian! But has not heard of Timothy McVay, the foundamentalist!

now I ask you, that I may know, under sane and mental human comprehension, which would you prefer? a religion that preaches and acts peace or one that preaches peace, acts war in expection for a peaceful reward.

If Christianity is peace, then why all the present day wars? Why did we have the Crusades to Jerusalem? Why the many incursionsto black nations; colonizations, etc? Why indeed slvery to the 'new worlds?' Why the Bible on one hand and the Sword on another? Let the religion stands on its own, without the cajoling and the naked white women, showing there cleavages in there tatooed bodies, to the salivating ignorant Africans; believing that "White people are god on earth!" This is why Christianity had failed with the enlighted Jews, even as your god jesus is from their very tribe! They rejected him. Of course, somebody will tell be that there are Jews for Jesus today. I already know that: the same way we have Jews practicing Buddhism, etc, etc! Some will fall through the cracks. We always have the ones who are marching to a drum of different beats, going against the grains!

your answers will reflect your intelligence.
I don't expect u to see my point of view due to your bigotry. but I do expect you to keep the intellectual inadequacies of your morally bankrupt religion to your self.
put religion aside, learn morallity, then pick up religion again, I don't think u will still be a muslim.

You had become the Judge, the Jury and the executioner! What there to do? If you expect a Muslim to take up Christianity, you are only dreaming! Which Bible to choose, from the tens of thousands in the ages, which one is the real Bible? Am only asking and I already have my answer: Zero!

This is a pathetic situation oh sorry thread.
According to u poster u said Quran.
But we are xtians and definitely know what the bible says alone.
Doesnt it amaze u when u remember that JESUS was mentioned in the Quran and Muhammad not even tot of in the bible.
It high time we all reasoned well.
The bible i believe in has made my understanding of the doctrine swift.
If u need to know if My Lord Jesus Chrit was a slave or the son of God, please read through the gospels of
Saints Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. ok

This is a joke, right? Was Jesus name mentioned in the Torah of the Jewish religion? Could you quote the verse in the Old Testament where "JESUS" was spelled out as I have written it down, just now? All you can bring to me is conjectures, inferences, what looks like, what you think it is. Same in the New Testament and the Old testaments: The name Muhammad, or Ahmad was not written, but his traces are in there! Its like Ragu pasta sauce; its in there!

The assetion below sums up the difference between the children of God and slaves of allah:

Christianity= I will DIE for my beliefs!!

Islam= YOU will DIE for my beliefs!!

Nuff said.

Christian god must be very active. Going about sleeping with women married to every Christian man! This is adultery or boldface 'I can take your wife and you can not do anything about it!' So while will your father condemn you to hellfire, if you are worth anything to him, rather if you are truly his child? What you say and the reality of the matter are two different things, therefore! Nuffs said!

@Pilgrim.!: Since you have no respect for elders on this thread, evidently is microcosm of your respect to those elders in your bloodline. First you have two jobs, just to go to school, (Nothing is wrong with holding down jobs), how are you going to give omo Onile olono a job? Don't you know that from their names? Egbe Isu ko ni Iyon. They did not have to take any loan for their education. Neither did i for mine. Its all family funds!

When you get to Nigeria, which you called bloody, and truly know who I am (Alhamdulillah), you will know that neither have I lost touch nor dis I not have anything to show for 'it!' No wonder that you are what you are! Only if i know your origin, then I may be able to see how you have turned out to be this terrible: It is as if your home training was Zero or rather, because since i do not know for certain whether your folks tried to impact you with any, you may have been the one who refused to take anything from "it takes a village to raise a child," efforts of your people!

You and me are not in the same level and i do not want to dignify your thirst for attention. Egbe eye ni eye nto! And when you are sure that you have arrived, then let us know where you are from, particularly and maybe I can 'bleach' them clean for you! Am almost sure that you have a very terrible background based on your arrogance on this board! Truth is very far from your conscience. You can not even speak the truth if your life depends on it: Good example is the verse 71 of Surah Mariam. You do not read Arabic and even in the translation of it, it was not stated that Muslims will go int Hell, yet you dishonestly said so.

When I know your worth, which is nothing, then I I will tell you who I really am. And even in your England, even though you are not in London, my nephew is well known among the Nigerian elites over there. So you see your 'bloviate,' is nothing but a charade. A sign of frustration of a very difficult living! All I can say to you now is that you should have introspect of your life and be contrived! You live a life of someone who is heedless and heading for destruction. You have empty pride as if your existence is more than having a better beginning of a sexual act between a man and a woman! You are not more than a single sperm fusing with a single egg! Yet your live on this earth as not be remarkably special!

Look, when you arrive, let me know. And if you want a job, in Nigeria, in Engineering, where you can get your hands dirty, and not as a theorist, InshaAllah, 'we,' (meaning me here; a majestic plural), can secure one for you. And pay you One year in advance! This here is to show how my Creator Allah the Almighty has showered His Mercy on me! And if you will need a job in America, and depending what field of engineering you study, then we can talk about it. The man who will give you a job is already on the Nairaland board! He has seen your stupidity, but yet count it as ignorance.

@Pilgim.1: I want you to listen and listen good. I am not going to ever repeat it to you again: Yi yo Ekun, ki nse to jo. You of all people can not scare me. I have your equal as my sons already. I am in the same level with those who can produce you as a daughter. Learn manners and then we can talk.

If you know me, you will learn respect. God Almighty is the Only One I am Afraid of. So go and shed all the garments of pride that you falsely wear! There is nothing you have achieved, nothing that you are the first in it. You have lied long enough and its about time to either put up or shut up.

Do it with your comrades. Islam is too much and it is the only reason I have tolerated you. If I were in front of you, be it in England or your Blood country Nigeria where you have your people, and even if they were to back you up, you could not be this arrogant and not to me. You need to find Honesty first and then your level of comrades. Enough said. I wonder if you could tell your elders that they wear nose rings or that they don't bellyfull, and they will be happy with you. So much for the Yoruba culture! Amu ni buni, eron Ibiye, Ibiye loju kon, eron e loju kon. Oro loboro wa o. Owe ni mo de pa fun e yen. My two sons, do not disrespect any elder, yet they were born outside Nigeria. Yet Olayiwola is already in Medical school and Oladunwo will be finishing engineering this semester! Yet I have lived outside Nigeria longer than you were ever alive on planet earth! And not once do I disrespect or use horrible descriptions/qualifiers for my elders.

Go learn humility first. Then wer can talk. Until then good ridden. I do no see your reason to puff up!

A non Muslim in America told me that the non Muslim God creates, but Allah can not create even a fly! So I asked, who Created me and all the Muslims? I could not get a response! The usual sets of actions are quickly implemented; changing the subject of discussions or unashamedly saying I do not want to talk about with variants of 'religion is a matter left unspoken about, etc.' It would have been easier to just simply say I do not know, because I do not know everything.

I was going to ask a pungent question, if the conversation had continued: If the non Muslim God was capable of doing everything, is there anything that He restricts Himself from doing, as in forbidden Himself to doing it/them as it/they do not befit His Majesty, or He will not do them now, and reserved for later? For example does this great God who Created and still Creating have to make Himself helpless, as to be nursed to strength by a young virgin, while He had to grow from newly born with all the gouwiness that accompany the birth; the blood and the afterbirth materials and the umbilical cord, which clearly show, that when He was inside the young virgin lady, he needed her nutrients which she gotten from food to aid in his development to fully developed fetus. What was the significance of being this helpless? What are the lessons learnt here then, which He did not teach in the OT? And when this lesson was taught in the NT, the Qur'an had to destroy or deny?

I do not want to bore anybody with the stages of fetal developments, and from newly born to independence. Say at the age of 13, if we have to exaggerate. We find this God, needing food, from that point on, like every persons living in the middle east, at that time. He did not demonstrate, not once that he could do without food, and still survive, even though he was a 'still undeclared god!' He followed and performed all the functions of what make a human being a human being. Never displayed any special talent that had not been dispayed by a person before in History!

He ate, slept, fatigued, needed water, etc, etc. And when he fasted, the same amount days of fast that Moses had performed, before him, infact he was following the tradition of Moses in that fast, we learnt that he hurried away to eat, immediately after the fast was over. And the incident of cursing the fig tree following the law of fruiting of fig tree was recorded, because the tree had no fruit for this god to eat! It would have been a miracle, but not a qualifier as a God if he could have simply commanded the fig tree to bring forth ripened fig fruits! But no, the non Muslims can't see the evil of cursing a tree that is obeying its natural order, but they see this killing of the tree as a sign of elevating this man to a position of deity, deserving worship.

We in Islam on the other hand see the Miracle of the palm date tree, that Allah the All Powerful commanded to come to live, even though it had been cut to a stump and had been dead and dried up for a long time, whereby it immediately fruited and the fruit was ripened and fell to the ground, a distance of an easy reach to a young virgin experiencing the pang of baby delivering pain All she had to do was just shake the tree!

There was no miracle that this human 'god' performed that he did not supplicated to God Almighty! These are just the signs, time and time, again that the Almighty God is separate and apart from the man walking in the streets of Middle east!

It was a shock to me when a non Muslim told me that 'heaven,' for them is different from 'paradise!' I try to get a read of i was told by requesting that the person give me what are the characteristics of this heaven as against that of what is known as paradise. It is at this point that I got no further respose. I wonder if this is 'heaven,' as mentioned by this Christian non Muslim, is more of a 'sect' understanding or definition, rather than what the whole Christendom believe.

Thats just by the way. I have to restrict myself from asking a Nairalander who claimed in a post that she can proof from the Qur'an that Allah the Almighty recognised another 'deity,' separate and apart from Himself and what Muhammad (as) thought about his Creator, to please provide them. Unfortunately, talk is cheap. I would have wagered with this person that if her statement, is founded to be baseless, will she then eat back her own pewk, which were the claims she made and then take Shahadah? But you see the internet is an equal opportunity deceiver or rather false pundit proclaimer. If we were all sitting across the table from one another, the equation would never be the same as this on this board, where everyone is anonymous.

It will nice if this person can proof to us what they claim about Allah's Book, the Qur'an and His Messenger, Prophet Muhammad (as), about his Lord! I was surprised when one of the males replaced 'passing over it,' of Verse 71 of Surah Mariam with 'go into it!' The height of dishonesty! Thats what you see on the board in many threads from non Muslims towards Islam!

On the Issue of Slavery: The first and only slave that Muhammad held was Zaid bin Thabit. He later adopted him. All of this was before he became a Prophet! The Qur'an declares that Master and Slave relationship is not to be between people as the way it was prosecuted or processed by White slave masters and traders on the African slaves and asiatic indenture manpowers.

Therefore, mankind deserves a Master, who is God over them as His slaves, servants, but definitely, beings under His control! Therefore, when there were captives in the wars or excursions of the Muslims against others, while Muhammad was alive, the so called slaves were never deprived of their basic God given human rights. They were fed the same food as the so called masters. They were clothed from the same clothe of the so called masters. No one can say that any of the so called slaves were illtreated by Muhammad or that Muhammad did not excoriate any of the Muslims who he heard illtreated any.

Infact, Zaid did refuse to go back as free man with his fathe. Instaed he chose to stay as a so called slave of muhammad. This was part of the reasons, he was taken to the Public square, the Ka'aba, in Makka, as the custom of the Quraish to announce important matters, whereby Muhammad adopted Zaid!

Further, when Islam began, the Muslims paid the cost of freeing slaves who became Muslims and were being tortured by their idol worshipping Masters! Bilah bin Rabah was a clear example. When adoption was also cancelled and became unislamic, because adoption normally strip the adopted all his/her heritage, including family name, this cancellation of adoption was made on the relationship of Muhammad as the adopted father and Zaid as the adopted son.

Inshort, Slavery when held in the history of Islam, it is not in the same oppressive form as the African slavery. If a Muslim holds somebody as a slave, it will have to be from the reward of war, but that slave can not and should not be treated in an inhumane way! Anyone who does that will find his/her reward of that deed with God.

@Daudatsiga: You should take your own advise, to study other people's religious text. When you have studied the Qur'an, then it may be possible that you can advise somebody else, specifically a Muslim, male or female to read the Bible. If you thing that the Bible is absolute, that is simple your own opinion, and you are truly entitled to one. But my opinion and that of the general Muslim family, is that Qur'an is the last and absolute and everlasting Authority of Religious guidance to Truth of the Creator. There are no three parts to this Creator. He has no beginning, and no end. He does not have any son, or daughter and there is no need for any. It is not that He is unable to handle the affairs of His creations. Afterall He created them by merely commandments of them into existence!! And the Holy spirit of the Bible is nothing more than a creation of God, simply for the purpose of errand running.

In Islam that Holy spirit is our Angel Gabriel. You must have heard that name before. And there is no son, as I have said, therefore Jesus was no more than a creation, through an agent of mother only! Jesus is one of 124,000 Prophets and Messengers of God. All of them were humans, starting from Adam, the first to be created, without a father or mother! Others included Jesus and the last of them, was Muhammad! And it was Muhammad who as the only one sent to all mankinds. Others before him, which included Jesus were sent to the people they were from! Prophets/Messengers were sent to people because of the people worship of idols, polytheism or deviation from the true straight path of worshipping God alone 100%. Although the deviation may not be overt.