₦airaland Forum

@KAG: Unfortunately, you did not put into consideration that the Mormon is a christian sect; has the same Jesus and all the other thing, then it has in addition Joseph Smith and 'angel' Moroni! Finally, God covenant with Ibrahiim is that all the Prophets after him will come from his bloodline: We see that all of those sects and religions that you mentioned above, none of their, using the term very very loosely, 'Prophet,' is from the Progeny of Ibrahiim. Take for example, the Mormons, their man is Joseph Smith, of Upstate New York. Joseph Smith, if you take him and try to apply him in the way you are suggesting, you will destroy the total Christianity, both Catholic and Protestant sects. Joseph Smith is their Saul/Paul. Both are less in God's eyes to Jesus. But a mere deviation of the Mormons from the main stream Christians, the orthodox sects, catholic and protestant put it at loggerhead as it goes against the grain of what it is accepted within Christianity up until Joseph Smith. Say, the difference is nothing less than 1000 years! Unless you will tell us that your Bible has been a lie until Joseph Smiths. Yet he copied its style. So both of them must be lying! No wonder the Republican conservatives in the USA are declaring that the Mormon is not from the Christian religion. Yet you are using it to malign your own Bible.

The other folks/groups that you mentioned, does any of their main personalities come from Ibrahiim's bloodline? If not, then you have the same condition of fakery as it applies to Mormon! Now, Islam happens to be a revealed religion. Its Book is from God directly. Its last and final prophet who received the revelations that the Qur'an is made up of, is directly from the bloodline of Ibrahiim. You see how your assertions are shredded apart like the lace attire of Ishola Folorunsho during his Bar beach last appearance! Don't worry this is beyond you.

Just on the Title alone, the Protestants do worse than the Catholics! Why? While they were breaking away from what they deemed 'Modern day Idolatry,' they copy almost the 100% of what they hated, with just the 6 or 7 Books left out, in the NT section. They kept the idea of Trinity, even though it does not appear in the Bible, one may argue it that way. The fact is that both developed an idea and attach it to a word that does not appear in the Book that they are using to prove the word, Trinity from that Idea.

Both has God the father, god the son and while the older sect has a mother god, the younger sect, which is a byproduct of the older sect replaced mother god with holy ghost/spirit god! This reminds me of the Panamanians, Cubans and the Brazilians who are worshipping the yoruba idolatry gods. They deveoped their brands of these yoruba 'thing,' clearly different from how it is known within the Yorubas. To a person looking at the 'new Yorubas of Caribbeans and South America,' brand of these idolatry and comparing it to the same type of what the authntic Yorubas of Nigeria do, he/she may be swayed to conclude that the Yorubas idolatry is the fake, between the two. One will be forced to note that even both of them are evil and not worth mentioning and should not be practiced, there is no way that an original thing could not be the authentic to the offshoot.

It is therefore to note that as much as I will not become a Christian, there is no way that the catholic sect should not be the authentic sect of Christian religion when compared with the prostestant sect! The Original is always authentic when is compared to the copycat. The original is always the one that is been around longer, than the copycat. The Original is always what the copycat uses as its basis. The Original is what the copycat gets its foundamental idea from. So you see, Catholic is older, more original, and therefore deemed authentic. Hence if Catholic is idolatry, then clearly protestant is a copycat/fake idolatry, without any doubt.

Around the Corner!

@Debosky;

what is meant by the 'whole world' is subject to debate, it may have been the known world at the time, so claiming authenticity for an essentially 'remixed' version of the actual accounts as written in Genesis is a tad silly.

Debosky, etc, apply the same 'whole world,' to the claim(s) you have for Jesus, son of Mary, about salvation, message, absortion of sins, etc! And of course, show me how essentially 'remixed,' version could be so better than the Original? Then I will show you, using Music Studio's metaphor, the original lacks the full flavor, whereas the remixed really had used some latest technology to turn out a Masterpiece. The Qur'an is that Masterpiece, while Torah and Sabur and the Bible (Good News) in total is that production that lacks the full flavor, because of lack of good and genuine efforts, both in the manpower and equipments usage.

@hotfunmi:

Does it mean that lagos, Ogun and Oyo which are largely moslem states has no grip on the ogboni cult?

To be ostracized, one must be wanting to be part of, but being refused the entry to, ! But in the above, I did see you tying Islam/Muslim in with this cult. I wonder how Islam or Muslim should be brought into something that is directly opposing the essence of Islam and or Muslim

@D_D:

the bible said no such thing neither do christians peddle that piece of garbage. It is purely your own dishonest invention.

Please give me how the says God (god the father) begets Jesus (god the son) if there was no overshadowing or (mounting)? Except that you people forgot that God only had to command anything He will to existence; that it the process will immediately begin to bring about the thing decreed.

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 02:32:46 PM
Jesus geneology at best is doubtful. Lets leave that alone for a moment. If there was no confusion and doubt of miracle of the pregnancy of Mary, in the minds of the Children of israel, the so called jews, there will not be an attempt to explain any geneology, whatsoever. I asked you people, the Christians to explain the the escape route of 'hoodini Mary,' how she was able to keep her hide, when the pregnancy could not be under rap because it had become a 'big tummy,' and upon the fatherless child was born? We know that the Children of Israel or the Jews dragged a poor single woman to Jesus for justice when she has sex, which is just the action that begins the woman/man relationship that can lead to pregnancy! How did Mary find an escape route from at least some group dragging her up to Zachariah who would be the person to carry out any 'Justice,' from the Torah of any PREGNANCY outside marriage?

i have just one thing to say to the confused garble above: Zachariah was the father of John the Baptist . . . he was also the wife to Elizabeth, Mary's cousin. It is not possible that anyone would have dragged Mary to Zachariah because His own wife Elizabeth was visited of the angel of the Lord to announce the birth of Christ through Mary.

I will leave my quote intact, as above to which you responded as quoted. Therefore member of the jury, where did i in my quote made an assunption, subtly or expressly that Mary is the wife of Zachariah, as D_D is alleging in his statement? You can therefore see for yourself his disingenous or rather drw up your own conclusion.

all we ask is that you produce this genealogy "that was never in question".

Tell me, what is the use? Is Muhammad's geneology or his mother's chastity under scrutiny by the Makkans before she was married to Muhammads father, or during the marriage, beore Muhammad was conceived, or during the pregnancy or after the birth? If none of that was the issue, then your request falls flat on its face. However, Muhammad said and i want you to listen good: From the branche of the Children of Adam that I come from and up to me, there was not a single illegal sexual relationship! This simply means that since Muhammad is from hagar 'wife,' branch of Ibrahim's family, it simply means that hagar and Ibrahim were legally married, which is contrary to your Jewish and christianity put forward accusation of adultery on the friend of god, father Ibrahiim, in the mere just cohabitate with my slave girl crazed notion/suggestion that you claimed on sarah, the elder wife!

I am wondering how TRINITY fits into Deut. 6 Verse 4 and then surprisingly, Mark 12 Verse 29?

Trinity is an idea, borne out of conjectures; an unclear inferences to suggest that there are 3 persons in One God of the Christians, yet everyone of them is coequal to the others. They are also inseparable, eternally existing (Jesus being presented in the spiritual realm as the 'Word,' but suddenly on earth he died! This declaration of his death is sufficient as the destruction of his being eternal! Therefore we can even argue that Jesus was never eternal which knocks him out of the rank of god and destroy trinity, or we can destroy the eternity of the One who the Word was with in the beginning s being not eternal at all, because as jesus died all of them in the trinity must die also. Inshort, none of them could retain the Awesome power that others, Muslims, as a good example ascribe to the 'Creator, The almighty God Allah, the One that is Irresistable!'

Deut. is a Book in the Jewish religious Book, the Torah (Please check Deut. 6 Verse 4, to see that the old prophets said God is One and not more!)
Mark is a Gospel in the christian book 'the bible,' (please check Mark 12 verse 29 to see Jesus himself declaring that his own God is One and not more!)

Salaam all,

The Holy Prophet Mohd (SAW) had urged us to sleep the early part of the nyt and wake up @ the latter part 2 woship the Almighty Allah. Worships cld not necessarily be Salaat especially ladies who can be off @ their individual periods. We can be busy with Dhikr, recitation of the Holy Quran etc

I do not believe that at this time of the month, the ladies can not do more than the dhikr, because if you can not pray (salah), you can not recite the Qur'an at all, with or without hold the Qur'an. Just as you can not make siam, or salah, until the time is over, you can not recite the Qur'an as well.

Please check with knowledgeable people, male or female.

@Davidylan: [qoute]except you have no clue about the genealogy of these "prophets" outside the bible. Tell us something about them from the quran, produce their messages from the quran before we listen to any more garbage you have to say. [quote][/quote]Tell me from the Old testament, the 'Torah' and the sabuur or from the New testament, the 'Bible/Good News,' the geneology of say, Abraham for just 10 generations, before him, Moses/Aaron, his brother, for 10 generations, or just chose your own poison, any prophet from your book after Moses will do the justice for me, if you can detail his geneology as you did with Jesus (a questionable geneology, at best because of your attachment of his bloodline to Joseph the capenter, who if ever related to him, will be at best by marriage, being his stepfather; the Muslims do not accept that Mary had sexual relationship with any man, before or after the birth of her only child, Jesus son of VIRGIN Mary. Unfortunately, you christians says that your father god covered her/as to overshadowed her, which is the way the pregnancy occurred 'this is from your religious book, I have nothing to do with it,' yet there after, considering the honoring position of this woman, since she is the mother of your god the son, also the surrogate mother to or the wife of god the father to bring about Jesus, yet a mere man, Joseph the capenter, then began sexual relationship with her, and had two sons! See how ridiculous your account of Mary is, the mother of your god the son?), in the Bible.

Jesus geneology at best is doubtful. Lets leave that alone for a moment. If there was no confusion and doubt of miracle of the pregnancy of Mary, in the minds of the Children of israel, the so called jews, there will not be an attempt to explain any geneology, whatsoever. I asked you people, the Christians to explain the the escape route of 'hoodini Mary,' how she was able to keep her hide, when the pregnancy could not be under rap because it had become a 'big tummy,' and upon the fatherless child was born? We know that the Children of Israel or the Jews dragged a poor single woman to Jesus for justice when she has sex, which is just the action that begins the woman/man relationship that can lead to pregnancy! How did Mary find an escape route from at least some group dragging her up to Zachariah who would be the person to carry out any 'Justice,' from the Torah of any PREGNANCY outside marriage?

Muhammad (as) geneology purity was never in question, by the Makkans. How you a Yoruba man from whereever you live (Rochester, lake erie area of NY State), can raise up this irrelevant question? Finally, it is the same Qur'an that puts up a good defense to protect the reputation and honor of mary, while your Bible was very lukewarm or out rightly shy about it! And if you want to know anything about any essential prophet/messenger, (for guidance, rebuking, preaching, etc (rofl)), you will find it in the Qur'an! We do not have irrelevant 'once upon a time,', 'the walking around on the street,' that you have in the Torah, Sabuur and the Bible.

@+Osisi;

Biko what do you mean by weak things?
Oga is fine and strong.
Thanks for asking

Weak things are the websites, hypothesis of who God truly is, etc! I trust 9ja man. So don't worry about it!

@+Osisi:

Your analogy here does not fit the Bible.

Biblically Speaking,most are from th same Manuscripts,some are from older Bibles from the same manuscripts.
Whether in Igbo,fufulde or ogoni dialect,all Bibles everywhere preach the exact same message.
That Christ died on the cross for your sins and will come again as the King of Kings.
If you find any authentic Bible without this message,let us know.

I know how to press your buttons. I have mastered it and it did not take me a long time at all! Place take notice of the plural used in the 'from older Bibles.' Why older Bibles? Why not Bible, if they are the same thing? I will leave everything alone and go to the death of Christ on the cross. Since Jesus and god the father and god the holy spirit are just one entity having the different attributes, then whenjesus died, the father and holy spirit, must have died also, without any escape of that certain death. Would it be safe to say then that all three died on the cross in order that the one god with three attributes could save christians from their sins? I do not know about another authentic bible, what you have is pretty convincing that the God that can not be seen by anyone, all of a sudden became the god that walked the street of jarusalem and other cities preaching the 'Gospel.' Yet in your Bible we have 4 Gospels and the remaining 7 are not recorded, even if we have to disregard the accounts of Judas iscariot! But we must not forget that Judas actaully witness the master, in action and was a member of the inner circle of 12, up until just before the betrayal, his account should have been not been discarded.

Afterall, jesus himself did not say that the Inspired bible writers should discount any of his 12 companion. But how do you expalin Jesus talking about One God Lord, in Mark 12:29? You see how I knead you like a dough, agitating you to the point that what I put up above was to gently let you realise that English translation of the Qur'an can never on one hand stand as a recitable Qur'an, because the recitation is only in Arabic. On the other hand the translators are just doing their best to give what is closest, from their point of views in english what is stated in Arabic. For example arabic has two plural, the plural of when something is just two and the plural of when something is more than two! Therefore I used Yoruba language writing of a story that is uniquely igbo. The Yoruba writer can try, even a pure igbo man can try to write this Igbo story in Yoruba, it will not be exactly as strong as when it is told in Igbo language, by an authentic Igbo tongue.

See how powerful Allah the Creator is? He brought the weakness of your Book to bear from your heart, using your own tongue, in this case your fingers did the typing!

Good night.

@D_D:

I never understood the trinity until the day my dad used a very simple illustration . . . when i get married i will be a husband . . . when i have kids i automatically become a father . . . but until i am 90yrs old i will always remain a son to my parents.

Alhaji, the fact that i am a father does not nullify the fact that i still remain a son to my parents. It all depends on which angle of the prism you look.

Christ was the FATHER (God above us) in the old testament . . . His name (Jesus Christ) was yet to be revealed . . . remember Moses at one time asked God for His name and all he got was "tell them I am that I am" hath sent thee". When He took on flesh and dwelt among us He became the Son . . . Jesus Christ (God with us) . . . after His death and ressurection He became the Holy Spirit . . . still that same God in the wilderness, the same Jesus who ate with Peter, James and John . . . the same God now dwelling in the hearts of those who are humble enough to let their lives be led by Him . . . God IN us . . . our hope of glory.

Sadly alhaji, you have been "served" this for the last 2 years . . . soon you will be back asking to be served again. Hard heartedness was one of the predicted signs of the end time.

The simple illustration that captured your imagination, is so deficient, that i am shocked that you still are intosticated by it. This is Father Christmas my friend. Get overit, its a fairy tale and its not real. The man who is married and who is a father and who is a son, is just one man. When the father is playing with his child, he does not leave the physical part of him, as a son of his parents, or the physical part of him as a husband. Infact, not of his physical part, based on his functions, father, son,and husband, is left without the others, at anytime. When he sleeps with is wife, as ahusband of that woman, even though, his gender is male, but he is still a son to his own parents, and still a father to his own children. When he eats or performs any humanly functions, all of the three parts of attributes, father, son and husband perform that function. When he falls sick, and he is bed reden or goes to the hospital or finally dies, all of those three attributes of that man experience this state of condition. It is not the husband that dies and the father remains behind. The wife becomes a widow, the son becomes an ophan, if he is under 40 years old and the parent become childless!

Did all the three persons in your trinity ate when Jesus ate, or defeacated when Jesus did it? Inshort, whatever jesus did, like when he fasted, was driven by the spirit into the wilderness, was tempted, all the three times by the satan, when he was so hungry and curse the fig tree that did not have any fruit, even when out of the season, when he prayed to God to let the cup pass over his head at the Garden of geshamene, when he said the Lors's prayer, when he was being tried by the Romans, when he was being persecuted and being led to th cross to be crucified, when he was nailed to the cross, when he cried 'my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me,' when he 'gave up the ghost,' (please bear in mind that he had died here), when he remained lifeless on the cross, when he laid lifeless in the tomb, and finally when he woke up before the three days and three nights, and the last supper, etc, and the ascension, etc?

When he will come back and the christians will fly up to meet him, etc and his estructions of the antichrist and the killing of the disbelievers, in the battle of armageddon, etc, are the others which are inseparably One with him, went through all of these and will go through the event of the future? For examply, when he died on the cross, the other two must have died and therefore there was no God the father and Holy ghost, for sure son was no more! We see that if this was true, there was a time that the world, indeed all creations did not have a God, a mover, the Supreme force twhich make things come to existence and have controls over every facet of all affairs. If this is no so, and there was always a God, the Supreme being, who you forcibly want to us to accept your unbefitting god the father title to this Awesome God, then your Trinity concept falls flat and failed woefully!

D-D, the Prism that you are using is very cloudy and the rays of light are refracted in more diffused way. Its like the book of chinua Achebe, "Things fall apart,' and the center can not holds. I wonder how 'I am that I am,' can send thee, when 'thee,' here is truly I am that I am? Psyche!

D_D, you are more confused that I thought: If Jesus was God the father, because they are one, in the first place, and he and holy spirit are also one, because that these were is other personalities or attributes, why does he have to die to become holy spirit/ghost again? This is very serious, D_D!

@+Osisi: Its always nice that you understand Yoruba, when it serves your purpose. I am rofl at your expense. Could you serve me then how you reconcile the Torah (Old testament) Deut. 6 Verse 4 and the Bible (New testament) Mark 12 Verse 29, both on one hand talking about Lord being One God, (Remember that Jesus is the speaker in the Mark Verse), versus the 3 in 1 God deal in the same Bible(New testament)? And the speaker in 3 for 1 deal was not Jesus. Who is to be believed, Jesus or the other guy, the speaker in the NT, after Jesus had been raised up, unable to speak for himself, rebuking the the crew who brought up the 3 for 1 material evidence? Which side of the fence are you on, sis? Head you lose, tail you lose. Whatever side you choose, you will be against the Bible, (the New Testament or Good News!)

Some Yoruba friends of mine and me, will pick up an authentic oral tradition old Igbo language only story. Each will write it down in his own style in Yoruba language as Yoruba versions of this authentic Igbo story! I pray when the Hausas and Tivs, and Nupes and even Wollofs and some Maurirania Fulanis, Soyinkes of Senegal, and even Bambara from Mali read our 'Yoruba renditions,' of this Igbo Masterpiece, they would not notice the variations of our corresponding sentences. We actually should be able pass these Yoruba Versions as if they are authentic. The Old Igbo storytellers in the Igbo Villages, the arochukwus or umochukwus should not be able to tell the differences between the Igbo language originals and the yoruba many versions!

If I can just arrange it like that +Osisi. Is that possible? Think about it. Loosely, this is the same condition with Qur'an in pure Arabic and the English Versions, or versions in any other language(s).

So how do the Christians explain their partial disregard for the Old testament part of 'the Bible,' the source of guidance? HOw do you explain the incongruencies, between the Old Testament and the New Testament? When you have this disagreement, which one do you choose and why? What you reject why leave it in? Is what you reject abrogated by what you accepted? Then tell me and the Muslims what part of the 'Good News,' the New Testament, do you reject say, for instance, Mark 12 verse 29, which actually agrees with OLd Testament's Deut. 6 verse 4 that God is Lord and its One? That God the Lord is not three, a trinity etc. How do you then inject Jesus to be what Jesus said with his own mouth that he was not? Tell me, because i am thirsty to know.

@Hotfunmi:

I am interested because i want to know the rationale for ostracizing them from their cult. Is ogboni a protestant christian cult?

You title your Thread very wrong. You need to remove Islam from it. From your initial entry, you doubt if it is Islamic compartable. then from what i quoted from you in this response, you confirmed it that you know this is a Christian thing; initially the catholics and now adding, the protestants.

Let me tell you, I knew few Ogonis in my youth, Awolowo, Ajasin, etc. None of them was Muslim. And no one with Muslim name, even if he/she is pretending to be observing the 5 pillars of Islam, upon additing anything in worship, expressed or implied, of Allah the Almighty, is out of the fold of Islam. That a one, is Muslim in name only. You can not be Babalawo or oracle person (if thats what they are called) and say for sure that you are a Muslim. Inlam does not even permits what the african people, wearing as armlet or whatever, verses of Qur'an, or writing it and then washing it off from the tablet and collecting the water to drink.

Since Muhammad did not do it, ad did not permit it for anyone, then there is no basis for it. From your Oro thing, I begin to lean on the believe that you are from Owo. But hey, if am wrong, then forgive me.

@deariekay

In case Muslim readers should be greatly concerned: The variances between these different versions of the Koran are generally quite small and minor, although there are a substantial number of them. Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun has published a version of the (Hafs) Koran which contains the variant readings from the 10 Accepted Readers in its margins. About 2/3 of the ayat (verses) have some sort of variant reading. The great majority are differences in the vowels inserted in certain words (remembering that the early written kufic texts of the Koran did not include vowels or diacritical marks). There appears to be only one difference that might represent a significant effect on belief, that in surah 2:184. There are many Islamic scholars' discussions about these many differences. As an example of one, in Hafs, surah 2:140 reads taquluna, while in Warsh, that text is in surah 2:139 and reads yaquluna. Another example: Hafs surah 2:214 reads yaquula while Warsh surah 2;212 reads yaquulu. Muslim scholars agree that such variations do not seriously alter the meaning of statements made in the Koran.

Not surprising that the author of the article that you quoted from, to illustrate the 'slight variations,' as he said in the Qur'an will say what he said. I am a Yoruba man, and you will know that from my name. I learnt how read the Qur'an in Arabic in America. Thank God. This is the greatest achievement of my life. It has opened my heart to the religion that you are trying so hard to put down and drag it in the same damp filth that you have your own religion and its book.

Now I read Warsh, which is more associated to the Moroccans, and also read Hafs. All my Qur'ans are in Hafs, which is an easier reading for me, because I am very used to the character. But I learnt how to read Qur'an from what the Indian/Pakistani subcontinent is more associated with. Yet it is a different character from the other two, the Warsh and Hafs! But when you pick up warsi Qur'an, you know immediately the different letters, eg fa, qaf are differently written, and unlike the Hafs, fa and qaf. But they are pronounced the same way, in both and all the Qur'ans, with slight local or dialectic pronounciation or voice inflections.

For example an Indian reciter will say va instead of wa. But everyone knows that he pronounced wa, not va, because thare is no V in arabic vocal or alphabets. Your guy is a magicians, and since he knows that he is talking to the eyes and ears and hearts and tongues that are unfamiliar to the Qur'anic words/pronounciations, he can fool you all day, all night all the time! His garbage is for the comsumptions of the ignorants. You happen for now be one of them. He knows that the muslims will destroy his hypothesis, in a minute, as even a man like me is doing right now. Yet I have not memorised a great deal of the Qur'an. But i can read every letter of these three styles i have mentioned. There are other styles that can only be read by those who studied the Qur'an in an matriculated setting. But we all pronounce it the same way. Whether you read slow, fast, prolonging as if exagerating the sound, or sharp as if compressing the sound, in Warsh, Hafs, or any style, the trained eyes, ears and tongue will correct the reciter, even when they are from opposite ends of the world, if a mistake is made.

Tell your hoodini, that his magic did nothing to the muslims. We do not falkl for flim flam, or any ind of hokeydoke! Tell your person and am addressing this to all the non Muslims, that Qur'an does not have to be written down before it can be recited. It is an oral document, so his hypothesis of written vowels or word variations id zero on the scale of 1 to 10. Zero being lets closely into the presentation, the minimun possible mark here. Afterall, Muhammad did not know how to read and did not know how to write! Yet he is the one that the Qur'an was revealed to! How about that? Further the time he forgot even a word of it, it was aprocess of Allah given us the legislation of how to correct reciters in the muslim ummah. Afterall, Allah caused His Messenger (as) to forget so that He can show us that no one is abovethe ability to forget and therefore no one should feel low that he or she is corrected. It is the same way that a mistake is correct in salah by the making up what you did not do, eg, if the numbers of rakah wee not exacly as it is supposed to be, you make the two prostrations of the face before you get out of the Salah.

This s a strange phenomina, to you, since prostration is something you are arrogant to do yet. Even muhammad was the one who had most prostrations in Salah to his Creator. Afterall, no one can be as good as him in Islamic worship. I can not say that about Christians and Jesus, since Jesus was not a Christian anyhow. So your mode of worshipis something strange to Jesus and was also developed by others after him, who could not possibly be his true follower(s).

@ away4real;

@ olabowale is this debate on the trinity?? , its ok for u to be confused or attempt to ridicule the trinity, but please the debate is on the Koran. Islam this Christainity that, jumpup here shout there, just stick to the debate.

Now back to the issue from what u state the versions are just translations in other languages. I doubt that based on the evidence from osisi.

Enjoy anyway i no get power 4 this una talk, i leave that to osisi and pilgrim and they seem to be doing a good job.

I will watch from the sound lines. Again stick to the debate and stop blowing cold fire, hmm can a fire be cold , well olabowale's fire is cole, take a chill pill no be fight, make everybody take am easy, tolerance is what i preach, but this nairaland na wah i wonder where people get all d info.

Anyway Jesus is Lord to me and theres no controversy for me oh.

away4real, if you believe osisi (I think she is +Osisi, but nevr mind), a disbeliever in the Qur'an over me, a believer in the Qur'an, for over 50 years, with battle scars (not the type that you get from wars. there is no muslim fights yet, but when you see me, there is no mistaking me for anything else), then what is there to say? Afterall, I can not affect your heart, if its already hardened, that you will believe a person, who does not know laam, laamalif, hamza, ain, gain, or even alif, all of which are arabic alphabets, over people who read the Qur'an everyday or least regularly, and must recite it daily in the prayers. Yet there is no time that it is acceptable to read Surah fatiha in Yoruba for example, a language that is certainly older and more matured than English. Or is it even permissible to read or recite it in Amharri language of Ethiopia, even though there were 2 minor Hijras to that land from Makka before the graet hijra to Madina. So away4real, I really can't help you.

If Jesus is lord for you, who is Lord for Jesus? Jesus does not have a Lord? And if that is so, why did he say what he said in Mark 12 verse 29? When you resolve that riddle, then come back for more. +Osisi, you should also tackle my question about Jesus having a lord or not, as indicated in Mark 12 verse 29, and the many prayers he made in the garden of Geshamene, and his crying out aloud on the cross, before 'given up the ghost.' I did not make the stuff up, your New Testament did, and you bought into the many lies.

@Flakes: Muhammad condoned rape, you said? Am gonna assume that your ibn Ishaq was not a Muslim. For the Muhammad I know and love and I encourage people to study the religion his God completed and perfected on him, is the opposite of a picture of anyone who would condone the evil deed of illegal sex, and then you went so far to say that he condoned and participated in rape!

Muhammad did not involved in any sexual relationship until the age of 25 when he got married! He married his first, his only wife for at least until he was more than 50 years old! Am more than 50 and I know for a fact that my sexual drive had gone down a notch, compare to when I was in my 20s. Further, with all the women, throwing themselves, offering to marry him, yet he never took any who offered, where did he have the time to go on rape orgies? It just did not happen. And the killing of the Jewish tribe of Madina, would never have been as you described it. Why would he killed so many people, regardless of how you put? 600 to 800 people in those daywill be comparatively comparing that in less than 50 years Nigeria have more than doubled her population, even with so many lives lost in the civil war. So bring 600 for example from Muhammad's time today, you will have to agree that this will be millions of people. No one will be sit idle to let something like that happens. Your Ishaq did not give a good explanations, to how such an event could have happened, and no nations near or within the middle east raised an eyebrow.

Finall, I know Muhammad, none of the things you accused him of, fits his character. Whats so wrong is that the Sudanese themselves, or the africans or your own country has not raised an army to combate the supporter of APC of Sudan. The Muslim countries, if there is any are just as corrupt as the non Muslim nations. And no one has to cry about America or Israel. The evidence in other places speaks volume.

@away4real

@ olabowale, a lot of us are following this thread unbiased, its unnecessary for you to bring in Mr. Nwando.

Please can you and babs stick to the issues raised, i for one thought the Koran was 1 (no versions) and the hadiths i never understood but here osisi and pilgrim have totally torn u guys apart, you guys seem to have nothing to say.

Again i call please stick to the issues raised if there is one version of the Koran prove it, and also the issue of the convenant raised on the other thread you also have not answered David asked what is the convenant and you said nothing i for one wanted to see if there was any similarity

You guys don't show a good grasp of your religion, always copy and pasting discuss in your own languages it will help in understanding for us the less fanatical about superioroty of religions. Pilgrim 1 seems to know more than you guys and shes a christain.

Please stick to the discussion at hand. I beg of u address issues, I really am interested in this debate.

You did not see my several entries of the Qur'an which speak about covenant of Allah with His slave Prophet Ibrahiim. It shows that you are a disingenuous person. No wonder you will see that the Keferis understand Islam more than Muslims! First a knowledge that is not beneficiary is not a knowledge at all. A disbeliever acquiring knowledge of belief is what we call a Mutamushriik, or orientalist. Copying and pasting are not indications of lack of good grasp of Islamic religion. Islam has a firm and laid down process. For example we do not go against Muhammad (as) in any matter of religion. Unlike you who go over the head of Jesus in the matter of your beliefs in God, worship of God, etc. For example Mark 12 verse 29, Jesus was reported to have said that God is One Lord. That God is the Lord of Jesus, as well. But then you guys then developed a three in One godship. You have this fishy smell in your living room, you still have the gut to tell me I do not understand my religion?

First, Islam deals with heart accepting and the tongue truly believing in One God. So a person who is worshipping a multiple head deity, is not fit to talk about any understanding of Islamic beliefs. You Africans, whose mother tongue is not English are using translated Qur'an as the Qur'an of Islam. I have news for you, Christians; Qur'an is purely in Arabic. So that you understandnyour follies, pick your tribal language in Nigeria. Lets pick Igbo for illustration. If few Igbo writers were to write what it means, of the verses of Qur'an, in Igbo language, you will have so many slightly varied words. For example the writer from Abia state will write slightly a different Qur'an than a person in Enugu. But neither is a true Qur'an. A true Qur'an must be in pure Arabic, when you hear the sound, since it is an oral revelation. You see where I am going with this. So your hammering on the English language 'Qur'an,' is a baseless and lack of real argument against Islam. A Yoruba man who speaks only Yoruba, is not required to read English Qur'an. However every Muslim is encouraged to learn how to recite, read Qur'an in Arabic.

Hadith is graded based on its sound narrations and other factors. However, when you read hadith, you can see whether it fits the quality of Muhammad (as), or not. He will not curse a soul unless the soul does truly deserve it.

@+Osisi:

Chineke God of Abia State.
The Koran is even more yeye than I thought.
So there is not a single verse today about stoning adulterers and adulteresses but yet Muhammad and Muslims carried and carry it out?
So who asked Muhammad to stone adulteresses?

this only proves that hadith right,it was taken out nicodemously by someone further proving my point.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions.

There is a hadith where Mo referred to the Torah for stoning,could that be where he saw it?
I told you people Islam was a sham,it only gets clearer.

I'll return later @ babs,just make sure you're wearing diapers,you may need it

+Osisi, you are becoming nastier by the pounds! Mr. Nwando needs to take charge. Qur'an is not a revelation that is in the hands of few elites. Unlike your 'Good News,' the Qur'an is always in the community of Muslims. First, the greatest authority of Qur'an among men, was Muhammad (as), who Qur'an was revealed upon. His wife, Aisha (ra), one of the mothers of the believers, called Muhammad 'the walking Qur'an.' So that you know that every ayah of Qur'an was accounted for, Jibril and Muhammad (as Jami'a) used to recite it, all of what was Qur'an, once to each other, in the month of Ramadan.

(I need to educate you here because if I know you and your group well, you will run with my statement, but twisting to justify your own falsehood, The first year of revelation, the Qur'an had fewer verses than what we call the Qur'an the  second year, and the second year has fewer verses that the Qur'an of the third year. Yet each year whatever verses that that Qur'an had, was full Qur'an for that year until more revelations were revealed to make it fuller. A verse, when recited is Qur'an. Even a word in it when recited, it means Qur'an is recited. You get the idea now? In the 23rd year, you had the fullest Qur'an in the month of ramadan than any of the previous Ramadans) But this 23 rd year of Ramadan recitation, between Jibril and Muhammad (as) was different. They recited it to each other twice, breaking away from their usual one time recitation to each other!

Muhammad died before the next Ramadan. Now, Umar was not among the group of people who committed a great amount of Qur'an. Abdal bin Mas'ud (Moshoodi, for you 9ja people), is a great reciter and committed the whole Qur'an into memory. If there is a verse of the Qur'an that talks about stoning, it would not have been removed from the Qur'an and Umar would not have been the only person to know it. What we see here is that you have fell back into relapse, you go back to your usual bad sites, again.

However, Allah tells us in the Qur'an to take what Muhammad gives and stay far away from what he forbids. In another verse, The Almighty says that Muhammad never talks out of his own desire. In another we are commanded to Obey Allah and obey the Messenger. Yet in another Allah says that when Allah and His Messenger have made a decision on any matter, it does not befit a true believer to have any other view point, opinion or idea, etc on that matter! I can give you many verses pertaining to Muhammad as it concerns what he does.

Further, since all prophets can with the same message and guidance from the same source, God Almighty, it will not be impossible that the law of punishment of adultery would be the same. Afterall, Jesus (as), did not abrogate/cancel that Mosaic law. Or did he, +Osisi?  In the Qur'an we see the commandments for five salah, but the rakah of each was not indicated in the Qur'an. It was from the mouth of Muhammad, in his hadith that we know that Salatul Subh is 2 rakah, Magrib is 3 rakah, and 4 rakah each for Zuhr, Asr and Isha. Muhammad was the one who gives the pronouncements of which rakah is silent and which is in loud voice.

Whatever Muhammad (as) legislated, it was Allah who commanded him to do so. What would you have done if the adultery was so close to home, espectially when its too close for comfort? It is then the true personality comes streaming out, demanding for more that the 'pound of flesh, but include in it the blood, bones and cartilage, etc! Please go sedon!

And by the way, in Nigeria, alone, there are now Qur'an translations, into the many of the national languages. Let just take ten as the number of the languages, presently. Yet when any of the people from any of the local languages is going to recite the Qur'an, say an Igbo man, example Alhaji Isa Okeke, of Enugu, he does not recite it in Igbo, but in PURE ARABIC! (By the way the name belongs to a real person, in exactly where I mentioned, in Igbo land). Can you christians in good conscience compare this incidental scenerio, above about this Muslim Ibo man, to any Ibo Christian who will use Igbo language Bible/Injiil for his sunday or whenever worship?

So the translations that you are talking about of Qur'an simply serves as understanding tool, to the persons who reads it in his/her local language, be it English of America, Canada or British, or any othe languages, including my beloved YORUBA! Aji se bi YORUBA lanri, YORUBA on ji se bi eni kon!

But I am a MUSLIM first, before I am a YORUBA. My Soul submits to Allah, before any getting together of my folks! That is the absolute truth. And I take it to the bank, all day long.

@Luvus: Not so fast, man. But you claim, as a Christian is God, right? So check the below out and tell me if Jesus was the God being refered to here, in the two quotes from the Bible. I still have more, but I am testing your embolden faith right now and before long it would not be so emboldened.

Exodus 32:1 (Whole Chapter)
[ The Golden Calf ] When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, "Come, make us gods [ Or a god ; also in verses 23 and 31 ] who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don't know what has happened to him."


Deuteronomy 9:7 (Whole Chapter)
[ The Golden Calf ] Remember this and never forget how you provoked the LORD your God to anger in the desert. From the day you left Egypt until you arrived here, you have been rebellious against the LORD.

Where is Jesus here; the Lord or the God, or both or neither? You have your work cut out for ya!

Answer, because, ain't got all day; Jesus is not either Lord nor God in both verses! If then you guys then magically brought jesus up later as god or Lord, it must have been unreal and it may just be only in title, but not in subsatnce. Like monopoly money, it looks good, but can spend it. Its even worse than Ijebu money!

And for those who are confusing English translation for simple reading, to Qur'an which is PURE ARABIC, you do not know anything about Islam! You are trying to co-mingle Islam with your religion. It just would not work. Qur'an is in PURE Arabic! Yet the Arabs themselves have to learn it, before they can understand it.

Unlike your Injiil, which was revealed, am sorry, inspired, in Hebrew or Aramaic, yet none of you have seen a single one of it, in its originally inspired in language! And the most ancient manuscript that you have been carrying around to show that your Injiil is authentic, can only go so far at least 300 years after the inspirational writing,from the many writers, who we even see their personal opinions in your 'Pure Injiil!'

So tell your Kiroyo/keferi brothers and sisters to stick to the theme of the topic! Peelee.

@Davidylan and Cheerleader, +Osisi, etc: I could just overwhelm you with tremendous amount of information. But why do that when there are other things more beneficial to do, among the believers. But I will ask you individually to ask your Creator for guidance. You want to die as believers, ask your God, directly and when you do it, do it with pure hearts. Your Creator knows you more than you know yourselves. He is capable to do all things. Below is just a material source that you could find out from the Tafsir of ibn Kathir, by just using google search engine.

91. Taking a Pledge From the Prophets to Believe in Our Prophet, Muhammad
(3. Surah Al `Imran/Topics)
Allah states that He took a pledge from every Prophet whom He sent from Adam until `Isa, that when Allah gives them the Book and the Hikmah, thus acquiring whatever high grades they deserve, then a Me
92. The Only Valid Religion To Allah is Islam
(3. Surah Al `Imran/Topics)
Allah rebukes those who prefer a religion other than the religion that He sent His Books and Messengers with, which is the worship of Allah Alone without partners, to Whom, ﴿وَ

93. The Questions that the Jews Asked Our Prophet
(3. Surah Al `Imran/Topics)
Imam Ahmad recorded that Ibn `Abbas said, "A group of Jews came to Allah's Prophet and said, `Talk to us about some things we will ask you and which only a Prophet would know.' He said, `Ask me a
94. Warning Muslims Against Imitating People of the Scriptures
(3. Surah Al `Imran/Topics)
Allah warns His believing servants against obeying the People of the Book, who envy the believers for the favor that Allah gave them by sen
95. The Necessity of Holding to the Path of Allah and the Community of the Believers
(3. Surah Al `Imran/Topics)
Allah said next, ﴿وَاعْتَصِمُو
96. The Benefits of Brotherly Ties and Unity and the Consequence of Division on the Day of the Gatherin
(3. Surah Al `Imran/Topics)
Allah said next, ﴿يَوْمَ تَبْيَ
97. The Good News that Muslims will Dominate the People of the Book
(3. Surah Al `Imran/Topics)
While delivering the good news to His believing servants that victory and dominance will be theirs against the disbelieving, atheistic Peop
98. Types of Believers and Types of Disbelievers
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Consequently, there are several types of people. There are the believers whom the first four Ayat (2:2-5) in Surat Al-Baqarah describe. There are the disbelievers who were described in the next two A
99. The Wives of the People of Paradise are Pure
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿وَلَهُمْ فِيهَآ أَز
100. A Parable about the Life of This World
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Abu Ja`far Ar-Razi reported that Ar-Rabi` bin Anas commented on this Ayah (2:26); "This is an example that Allah has given for the life of this world. The mosquito lives as long as it needs food
101. Adam repents and supplicates to Allah
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
It was reported that the above Ayah is explained by Allah's statement, ﴿قَالاَ رَ
102. Reminding the Children of Israel of Allah's Covenant with Them
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah's statement, ﴿وَأَوْفُواْ بِعَه
103. The Condemnation of commanding Others to observe Righteousness while ignoring Righteousness
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, "How is it, O People of the Book, that you command people to perform Al-Birr, which encompasses all types of righteousness, yet forget you
104. The Sabi'un or Sabians
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
There is a difference of opinion over the identity of the Sabians. Sufyan Ath-Thawri said that Layth bin Abu Sulaym said that Mujahid said that, "The
105. Taking the Covenant from the Jews
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah reminded the Children of Israel of the pledges, covenants and promises that He took from them to believe in Him alone, without a partner, and follow
106. The Jews breach the Sanctity of the Sabbath
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿وَلَقَدْ عَلِمْتُمُ﴾ (And indeed you knew). This Ayah means, O
107. There was little Hope that the Jews Who lived during the Time of the Prophet could have believed
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿أَفَتَطْمَعُونَ﴾ (Do you covet) O believers, ﴿أَن 
108. The Jews knew the Truth of the Prophet , but disbelieved in Him
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said next, ﴿وَإِذَا لَقُواْ ال&
109. Woe unto Those Criminals among the Jews
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿فَوَيْلٌ لِّلَّذِي
110. The Jews hope They will only remain in the Fire for a Few Days
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah mentioned the claim of the Jews, that the Fire will only touch them for a few days, and then they will be saved from it. Allah refuted this claim by
111. When Small Sins gather, They bring about Destruction
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Here we should mention the Hadith that Imam Ahmad recorded, in which `Abdullah bin Mas`ud said that the Messenger of Allah said, «
112. The Covenant that Allah took from the Children of Israel
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah reminded the Children of Israel of the commandments that He gave them, and the covenants that He took from them to abide by those commands, and how t
113. The Terms of the Covenant and their Breach of It
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah criticized the Jews who lived in Al-Madinah during the time of the Messenger of Allah . They used to suffer, because of the armed conflicts between t
114. Although The Jews denied the Truth, They claimed to be Believers!
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُم
115. The Jews rebel after Allah took Their Covenant and raised the Mountain above Their Heads
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah reminded the Jews of their errors, breaking His covenant, transgression and defiance, when He raised Mount Tur above them so that they would believe
116. Choosing Some Angels to believe in over Others is Disbelief like choosing Some Prophets over Others
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿مَن كَانَ عَدُوًّا
117. The Jews break Their Covenants
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
When the Messenger of Allah was sent and Allah reminded the Jews of the covenant that they had with Him, especially concerning Muhammad , Malik bin As-Sayf said, "By Allah! Allah never made a co
118. Learning Magic is Kufr
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿وَمَا يُعَلِّمَانِ مِنْ أَحَ
119. The Jews and Christians dispute among Themselves out of Disbelief and Stubbornness
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُو
120. The Meaning of Correct Tilawah
(2. Surah Al Baqarah/Topics)
Allah said, ﴿الَّذِينَ آتَيْنَـ

May your Creator lead you aright and not make you people of Hell, thereby allowing you to accept His guidance before death. Amin. Guys, am busy. I can breeze in an out, whenever. But am somewhat occupied. And you, +Osisis, I will tackle leader of those who make the golden calf. I will prove to you that it was not Aaron, but somebody else!

The Unjust do not qualify for Allah's Promise

Allah said that Ibrahim said,
(And of my offspring (to make leaders)) and Allah replied,
(My covenant (prophethood) includes not Zalimin (polytheists and wrongdoers)).

When Allah made Ibrahim an Imam (Leader for the faithful), he asked Allah that Imams thereafter be chosen from his offspring. Allah accepted his supplication, but told him that there will be unjust people among his offspring and they will not benefit from Allah's promise. Thus, they will neither become Imams nor be imitated (for they will not be righteous). The proof that Ibrahim's supplication to Allah was accepted is that Allah said in Surat Al-`Ankabut (29:27),

(And We ordained among his offspring prophethood and the Book).
Hence, every Prophet whom Allah sent after Ibrahim were from among his offspring, and every Book that Allah revealed was to them. As for Allah's statement,
((Allah) said, "My covenant (prophethood) includes not Zalimin (polytheists and wrongdoers). '')

Allah mentioned that there are unjust people among the offspring of Ibrahim, and they will not benefit from Allah's promise, nor would they be entrusted with anything, even though they are among the children of Allah's Khalil (intimate friend, Prophet Abraham). There will also be those who do good among the children of Ibrahim, and these it is who will benefit from Ibrahim's supplication. Ibn Jarir said that this Ayah indicated that the unjust shall not be Imams for the people. Moreover, the Ayah informed Ibrahim that there will be unjust people among his offspring. Also, Ibn Khuwayz Mindad Al-Maliki said, "The unjust person does not qualify to be a Khalifah, a ruler, one who gives religious verdicts, a witness, or even a narrator (of Hadiths).''

(125. And (remember) when We made the House (the Ka`bah at Makkah) a place of resort for mankind and a place of safety. And take you (people) the Maqam (place) of Ibrahim (or the stone on which Ibrahim as a place)

Al-Khalil's Supplication: The Covenant of God with him. (IBRAHIM is Al- Khalil, (as))

Allah said that Ibrahim and Isma`il supplicated to Him,
(Our Lord! And make us submissive unto You and of our offspring a nation submissive unto You, and show us our Manasik, and accept our repentance. Truly, You are the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful.)
Ibn Jarir said, "They meant by their supplication, `Make us submit to Your command and obedience and not associate anyone with You in obedience or worship.''Also, `Ikrimah commented on the Ayah,
(Our Lord! And make us submissive unto You)

"Allah said, `I shall do that.''' (Covenant of Allah, to His slave, His friend Ibrahim. His son Ismail was with him and covered under this covenant)
(And of our offspring a nation submissive unto You)
Allah said, `I shall do that.'"

This supplication by Ibrahim and Isma`il (It took place in Makka, at the haram sherif; Masjid Haram which is the surroundings of the Ka'aba) is similar to what Allah informed us of about His believing servants,
(And those who say: `Our Lord! Bestow on us from our wives and our offspring the comfort of our eyes, and make us leaders of the Muttaqin) (25:74).
This type of supplication is allowed, because loving to have offspring who worship Allah alone without partners is a sign of complete love of Allah. This is why when Allah said to Ibrahim,
(Verily, I am going to make you an Imam (a leader) for mankind (to follow you)) Ibrahim said,

("And of my offspring (to make leaders).'' (Allah) said, "My covenant (prophethood) includes not the Zalimin (polytheists and wrongdoers)'') which is explained by,
(And keep me and my sons away from worshipping idols) (We see today that from the Jews, ethnically and religiously, there are idol worshippers from among them, as Buhddists, etc, separate and apart from their disbeliefs as religious Jews. Afterall, they disbelieve in the Messengership of Jesus, their tribes/nations Messiah, thats no 1, then they disbelieve in the Messengership of the last messenger and the prophet/messenger sent to all mankind, Muhammad (as). The Christians, who claim, falsely I have to say worship the cross, with or without the image of a man which they perceive to be Jesus (as). But Jesus did not died on the cross and he was not crucified. But the Christians worship him anyway, making him 1 person of three persons god! The Protestants add a holy ghost as the second person of this three persons god, while their mother sect, the Catholics add his mother Virgin mary!)
Muslim narrated in his Sahih that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

(When the son of Adam dies, his deeds end except for three deeds: an ongoing charity, a knowledge that is being benefited from and a righteous son who supplicates (to Allah) for him.)

The Deniers will never believe until They see the Torment

Allah says: `thus We caused denial, disbelief, rejection and stubbornness to enter the hearts of the sinners.'
(They will not believe in it), i.e., the truth,
(until they see the painful torment.) means, when their excuses will be of no avail, and the curse will be upon them, and theirs will be an evil abode.
(It shall come to them of a sudden,) means, the punishment of Allah will come upon them suddenly,
(while they perceive it not. Then they will say: "Can we be respited'') means, when they see the punishment, then they will wish they had a little more time so that they can obey Allah -- or so they claim. This is like the Ayah:
(And warn mankind of the Day when the torment will come unto them) until:
(that you would not leave) (14: 44). When every sinner and evildoer sees his punishment, he will feel intense regret. Such was the case of Fir`awn, when Musa (Haruun is brother a prophet with him is included here, with Musa in this act of prayer) prayed against him:

(Our Lord! "You have indeed bestowed on Fir`awn and his chiefs splendor and wealth in the life of this world) until:
((Allah) said: "Verily, the invocation of you both is accepted.'') (10:88-89). This supplication had an effect on Fir`awn: he did not believe until he saw the painful torment:
(till when drowning overtook him, he said: "I believe that none has the right to be worshipped but He in Whom the Children of Israel believe.'') until:
(and you were one of the mischief-makers) (10:90-91). And Allah says:
(so when they saw Our punishment, they said: "We believe in Allah Alone, '') (40:84-85).

(Would they then wish for Our torment to be hastened on) This is a denunciation and a threat, because they used to say to the Messenger, by way of denial, thinking it unlikely ever to happen:
(Bring Allah's torment upon us) (29:29). This is as Allah said:
(And they ask you to hasten on the torment, ) (29:53-55). Then Allah says:
(Think, if We do let them enjoy for years, and afterwards comes to them that which they had been promised, all that with which they used to enjoy shall not avail them.) meaning, `even if We delay the matter and give them respite for a short while or for a long time, then the punishment of Allah comes upon them, what good will their life of luxury do them then'

(The Day they see it, (it will be) as if they had not tarried (in this world) except an afternoon or a morning) (79:46). And Allah says:
(Everyone of them wishes that he could be given a life of a thousand years. But the grant of such life will not save him even a little from punishment) (2:96).
(And what will his wealth avail him when he goes down) (92:11) Allah says here:
(All that with which they used to enjoy shall not avail them.) According to an authentic Hadith:
(The disbelievers will be brought and once dipped into the Fire, then it will be said to him: "Did you ever see anything good Did you ever see anything good'' He will say, "No, O Lord!'' Then the most miserable person who ever lived on earth will be brought, and he will be put in Paradise for a brief spell, then it will be said to him, "Did you ever see anything bad" He will say, "No, O Lord.'') meaning: as if nothing ever happened. Then Allah tells us of His justice towards His creation, in that He does not destroy any nation until after He has left them with no excuse, by warning them, sending Messengers to them and establishing proof against them. He says:

(And never did We destroy a township but it had its warners by way of reminder, and We have never been unjust.) This is like the Ayat:
(And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger) (17:15).
(And never will your Lord destroy the towns until He sends to their mother town a Messenger reciting to them Our Ayat.) until;
(the people thereof are wrongdoers) (28:59).
(210. And it is not the Shayatin (devils) who have brought it down.) (211. Neither would it suit them nor are they able.) (212. Verily, they have been removed far from hearing it.)

I am setting you up, with good words of warnings of different types. Then I will inshaAllah give you the Covenant of Allah on Ibrahiim, about his progenies, and also about his disbelieving father.

The Qur'an was mentioned in the Previous Scriptures

Allah says: this Qur'an was mentioned and referred to in the previous Scriptures that were left behind by their Prophets who foretold it in ancient times and more recently. Allah took a covenant from them that they would follow it, and the last of them stood and addressed his people with the good news of Ahmad:
(And (remember) when `Isa, son of Maryam, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah unto you, confirming the Tawrah before me, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad.) (61:6) Zubur here refers to Books; Zubur is the plural of Az-Zabur, which is also the name used to refer to the Book given to Dawud. Allah says:

(And everything they have done is noted in the Az-Zubur.) (54:52), meaning, it is recorded against them in the books of the angels. Then Allah says:
(Is it not a sign to them that the learned scholars of the Children of Israel knew it) meaning, is it not sufficient witness to the truth for them that the scholars of the Children of Israel found this Qur'an mentioned in the Scriptures which they study The meaning is: the fair-minded among them admitted that the attributes of Muhammad and his mission and his Ummah were mentioned in their Books, as was stated by those among them who believed, such as `Abdullah bin Salam, Salman Al-Farisi and others who met the Prophet . Allah said:

(Those who follow the Messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write , ) (7:157)

The Believer is Tested and Hears Grieving Statements from the Enemy

Allah said, (See how the Merciful uses Singular or Plural pronoun for Himself, at will, as He pleases. Therefore, your Multiple heads of god(s) of Christianity is destroyed! Glory belongs to Him alone, the Creator of Jesus son of Virgin Mary, a mere Human Messenger. For from the Angels you have Messengers, too. Example is Angel Gabreil)

(You shall certainly be tried and tested in your wealth and properties and in yourselves), just as He said in another Ayah,
(And certainly, We shall test you with something of fear, hunger, loss of wealth, lives and fruits) ﴿2:155﴾.
Therefore, the believer shall be tested, in his wealth, himself, his offspring and family. The believer shall be tested according to the degree of his faith, and when his faith is stronger, the test is larger.

Allah said to the believers upon their arrival at Al-Madinah, before Badr, while comforting them against the harm they suffered from the People of the Scriptures and the polytheists;
(but if you persevere patiently, and have Taqwa, then verily, that will be a determining factor in all affairs.)
Therefore, Allah commanded the believers to be forgiving, patient and forbearing until He brought His awaited aid.

Al-Bukhari recorded that Usamah bin Zayd said that Allah's Messenger rode a donkey with a saddle covered by a velvet sheet and let Usamah ride behind him (on the donkey). The Prophet wanted to visit Sa`d bin `Ubadah in Bani Al-Harith bin Al-Khazraj, and this occurred before the battle of Badr. The Prophet passed by a gathering in which `Abdullah bin Ubayy bin Salul was sitting, before `Abdullah bin Ubayy became Muslim. That gathering was made up of various Muslims as well as Mushriks, who worshipped the idols, and some Jews. `Abdullah bin Rawahah was sitting in that gathering.

When the Prophet reached `Abdullah bin Ubayy, the donkey caused some sand to fall on the group. Then, `Abdullah bin Ubayy covered his nose with his robe and said, `Do not fill us with sand.' The Messenger of Allah greeted the gathering with Salam, called them to Allah and recited some of the Qur'an to them. `Abdullah bin Ubayy said, `O fellow! No other speech is better than what you said, if it was true! However, do not bother us in our gatherings. Go back to your place and whoever came to you, narrate your stories to him.' `Abdullah bin Rawahah said, `Rather, O Messenger of Allah! Attend our gatherings for we like that.' The Muslims, Mushriks and Jews then cursed each other, and they almost fought with each other.

The Prophet tried to calm them down, until they finally settled. The Prophet rode his donkey and went to Sa`d bin `Ubadah, saying, `O Sa`d! Have you heard what Abu Hubbab said (meaning `Abdullah bin Ubayy). He said such and such things. ' Sa`d said, `O Messenger of Allah! Forgive and pardon him. By Allah, Who sent down the Book to you, Allah brought us the truth that you came with at a time when the people of this city almost appointed him king. When Allah changed all that with the truth that He gave you, he choked on it, and this is the reason behind the behavior you saw from him.' The Messenger of Allah forgave him. Indeed, the Messenger of Allah and his Companions used to forgive the Mushriks and the People of the Scriptures, just as Allah commanded them, and they used to tolerate the harm that they suffered.

Allah said,
(and you shall certainly hear much that will grieve you from those who received the Scripture before you (Jews and Christians) and from those who ascribe partners to Allah ﴿3:186﴾, and,
(Many of the People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) wish that they could turn you away as disbelievers after you have believed, out of envy from their ownselves, even after the truth has become manifest unto them. But forgive and overlook, till Allah brings His command) ﴿2:109﴾.

The Prophet used to implement the pardon that Allah commanded him, until He gave His command (to fight the disbelievers). When the Messenger fought at Badr, and Allah killed, by his hand, the leaders of the disbelievers from Quraysh, `Abdullah bin Ubayy bin Salul and the Mushriks and idol worshippers who were with him said, `This matter has prevailed,' and they gave their pledge to the Prophet and became Muslims.''
Therefore, every person who stands for truth, enjoins righteousness and forbids evil, will be harmed in some manner. In such cases, there is no cure better than being patient in Allah's cause, trusting in Him and returning to Him.

(187. (And remember) when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) to make it (the truth) known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it, but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And indeed worst is that which they bought.) (188. Think not that those who rejoice in what they have done (or brought about), and love to be praised for what they have not done, think not that they are rescued from the torment, and for them is a painful torment.) (189. And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and Allah has power over all things.)