₦airaland Forum

@$Osisi: Break dance if you want. You can crump, too. If you don't know what crump dance is, ask somedody who is hipp to it.

As you read your "all scripture is inspired for taeching, and what not," you forgot the other more than 66 books, scripture! THe Douwy, which is with the Catholics. Now woman, which one is the "uncorrupted", the 66 books scripture or the one more than 66 books?

Since the time we have been telling you that you read a corrupt Book, have you had the ability to show us an original? Like Seun the Chairman of Nairaland said in the catholic Thread, "Can the Original/uncorrupted Bible, please stand up?"

Folks, watch how the KJV, NIV, Douwy, ASV, etc are going to be justling for that position. And non can truly stand up.

I remembered the Bible the gave me for Bible Knowledge in High School. This was the pre-1971 publication. When the class of 1971 entered the School, their Bible was different from ours, who were before them!

Osis this was the case with what you call uncorrupted/original! Is that Original to you, uh? Come on now.

@$Osisi: You should be ashamed of yourself quoting "Hebrew" to represent Jesus, or Ghost or Father! Is the author of the said Hebrew one of the three? Was Hebrew penned, while Jesus was not ascended? You sometimes, make me wonder!

I had expected you,ince you are going to defend your brother the starter of the thread to read what his purpose was:

Was Allah a Merciful (Kind, Forgiving, Guider to the right path, Beneficient, Gracious, Just, etc) Deity?

For every word or verse that indicated the above, 5 from the Quran will be presented to show that He punishes unjustly!


Follow the guideline, and stop jumping all over the threshhold before marriage! Calm down for me. Read, again. And I wonder if Jesus forgave: Judas Iscariot, or the Robber on the left side on the cross, or Satan/Devil/Demon?


And the little "children" are the same people who carry the "original sin!" Forgiver, indeed he is!!!!!

@$Osisi: Am wondering if the love your lord and your neighbor stated by Jesus, as you claim in NT, does not kill off the OT, where there is more than love of God and Neighbors expressed?

How about the Kosher laws, etc? What about the Tabernacle, and the ArK of the Covenant, etc? What about the Temple Prayers, like how Moses worshipped?

You and your derailed the Thread by injecting nonsensicals. The Christian lie is always shifting like Quicksand!

@$Osisi: If you didn't put your two bits in it, i wouldn't bother with the Thread, any longer. But then, let me say this, and be finished with it:

Allah describes Himself as Most Beneficient< Most Merciful, etc. Read the first Chapter. Is forgiveness not under Mercy? If you are described as a married mother, should anybody be doubting that you have a spouse, or that you have offspring(s), etc?

What your Christian mind can't get to understand is that while you are fighting to validate a mere human being as God, he had prayed, wept, cried out and begged and petitioned the Superior Being to aid him all the way.

If you know that Allah is mean and unjust, then help your brother, Noetic to produce 5 Verses or words of injustices to every word that muslims produced of Mercy, Kindness, Guidance, Forgiveness, Justice, Graciousness, etc. Thats what I expected.

All your Biblical quotes are meaningless. Moreover, you are quoting OT, the word of the Prophets/Laws and the God that you refused to follow, obey and Serve alone without Jesus! Dont make me laugh, woman. I am not in the mood for comic relief!

you dump and dull boy as a dumb bell. are you blind that you did not see words that speak about mercy and things of favor? darn you. i see why you are a christian. read all the bible, you will not see as much of mercy from yahweh, jehovah, jesus as much as in the simple chapter i posted above.

i have nothing further to discuss with you, darn time waster. you thing my time is not precious? good bye.

And when you look at the "earning your anger" and "go astray", these label on them show the reason; way of disobedience for being out of favor and out of receiving mercy. Inshort, their being punished is just in a confine of Justice! There way of disobedience is what earned them these titles; earner of anger and goer of the road that is astray.

I have to spoon feed you? Take initiative, man. I already responded to your challenge. Its on, buddy.

Shall we take this project 30 to 60 verses per day? I hope that when you are able or unable to show us unfairness of Allah from the Quran? We will all have to decide individually, whether you have been speaking the truth, all along. But since the Muslims know that you are not honest, this thread is a way to expose your fraud of a mind.

Shall we go to Surah Baqarah? It is a 286 verse Chapter. The Longest in the Quran.

On this seven verses chapter, there are at least 7 clearly merciful related words. Hence I have 7 points already. Please, now show us 35 words of unmitigated/unprovoked and unjust punishment here? Maybe you will at later chapters? We will wait and see. I hope we have people keeping scores on this challenge?

Surah Fatiha: Talking about Mercy, Forgiveness, Graciousness, etc. Is there any unmitigated punishment in this verse, except Justice?

1:1 In the Name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Mercifu[/b]l.
1:2 All the praises and thanks be to Allah, the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
1:3 The Most [b]Beneficen[/b]t, the Most [b]Merciful
1:4 The Only Owner (and the Only Ruling Judge) of the Day of Recompense (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)
1:5 You (Alone) we worship, and you (Alone) we ask for help (for each and everything).
1:6: Guide us to the Straight Way
1:7 The Way of those on whom You have bestowed Your Grace , not (the way) of those who earned Your Anger (such as the Jews), nor of those who went astray (such as the Christians).

@dexmond and Horus: You two are sick puppies. Historical Muhammad different from Muhammad (AS) who received the Quran revelations? What hisrory? Let us know about it, dexond!

Horus is looking for "bones!" Where is the bone or are the bones of the half man and distinctively half whatever man came from? Let me help you with what am looking for; like half orange attached to have Apple to make a full sphere! Get me something like that, and I will join you! Haa. You can't get it, am sure.

You must be pathetic, Noetic! Open your eyes and mind to learn what the thought of the poster is. He realises that there is a disconnect by religion. She is not likey to change. He on the other hand had just become "practical Muslim."

Abuzola advised thathe could marry her. Except that he should consider the future and his own mortality.

Where is thinking? Is there any reason for your outburst, if only you are thinking straight? NO! Now, think straight and dont respond to anyone else, except you are making sense!

Darn Christian fanatic!

Do you drink, man? How you conclude with the statement above beats me. Why dont you open a thread where we go chapter by chapter and colorfully underline my position, Mercy, etc against yours, unwaranted punishment or injustice?

The whole of nairaland and indeed the whole world will see who belongs to the rubbish depot/dump.

@All: $Osisi is a jealous and greedy woman. And she can't handle a hard dose of romance, yet she wants it all to hersef. Good that you have a man who fits your need. Some men its almost like food. It is a thing that is also important in relationship. Its not all conversation that is the glue of marriage, you know. If it is, babies will not come out of mommies.

And the one who wants the preacher to go; when you get to Iyin Ekiti, find yourself a husband. Then calm down for him. I hope he fits your romantic temperament.

There is nothing to say the marriage will survive if its a monogamy. And polygamy does not necessarily means the kiss of death, either. My father had many wives. And my mother was not jealous of any of the other wives. The few who remained today are still keeping sincere relationships amongst themselves.

And the siblings find friendship amongst one another, just the way you may find it in a monogamous sibling relationship. This reminds me of the Kayodes from Ijero Ekiti. I want the Ekiti alagidi woman to verify my statement;


The old man, Kayode hasd so many wives, and many more childre. I remenber my friend, the reverend, his son said that even the "gbere that was sin on his head" sometimes iwas adminstered by other mother(s) not his own. And they were not muslims but true Christians.

Conclusion

What is amazing about the whole affair is that even if one were to accept all the numerous translations out there such as arriving at, seeing, descending to, descending into, enter, passing over the verse still makes perfect sense and poses no problem at all for Islam and the Muslims provided one understands and thereafter accepts the explanations(Qur’an, Hadith, Tafsir and reason) that have been brought forth in the discussion. If the detractors of Islam demand us to translate it as “enter” and we conceded even then as I have shown no contradiction or problem arises. Entering does not excluse passing over as I have explained and does not automatically mean staying or walking on. Then if you pass over you must arrive at it and if you arrive at it you must certainly sight it. Hence, all the translations combined together make a lot of sense and even if we accepted any single one of them and ignore all others, it will still make sense as a general statement specified by the Ahadith or contextually and most importantly the following verse which makes it clear that Allah will save those who have taqwa.

Allah knows best!

The context begins from verse 66 to 72:


[19:66]
Man says, “Is it that, once I die, I shall be brought forth alive?”

[19:67]
Does not the man remember that We created him before, when he was nothing?

[19:68]
So, by your Lord, We will definitely gather them together, and the devils as well; then We will definitely make them present around the Jahannam , fallen on their knees.

[19:69]
Then, out of every group, We will certainly draw out those who were more rebellious against the All-Merciful (Allah).

[19:70]
Then of course, We are most aware of those who are more deserving to enter it (the Jahannam ).

[19:71]
There is none among you who does not have to arrive at it. This is undertaken by your Lord as an absolute decree, bound to be enforced.

[19:72]
Then We will save those who feared Allah, and will leave the wrongdoers in it, fallen on their knees.

The context begins with Allah relating the speech of doubters and disbelievers who question Allah’s power to raise the dead back to life. In verse 68 we read that they will be gathered along with the evil ones. Then in verse 69, Allah says that He will drag out every sect of rebellions against Him. Verse 70 tells us how Allah certainly knows who is most worthy of being burned and then we reach the verse in question which says “Not one of you…”. Contextually, it does appear as if Allah is addressing the disbelievers and evil doers and not every Tom, Dick and Harry who are Muslim and otherwise.



The article continues:

This verse tells clearly that all Muslims [everybody] will go to Hell, (inevitable, decreed, determined) and only some of them will eventually be rescued from Hell, while others will be left there forever.

Obviously, it cannot be that all go through hell (Sura 19:71) and that martyrs go directly to paradise, being spared hell, and “they live (present tense), finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.”



MY RESPONSE:

We have elucidated at length what the verse means and it does not say at all what the author wishes to imply i.e. Muslims are going to be damned and only some will be saved. Let me remind the readers one more time about the intellectual dishonesty of the author for adding the words “only some”. With regards to martyrs, we have shown that the verses given do not speak about any kind of immediacy at all. Though paradise is ensured for those who are slain on the way of Allah they too much go on the sirat like all others. What they won’t experience is the punishment which the disobedient will experience as we have already mentioned. They will be among the first group who will cross over without any harm and enter jannah by Allah’s grace. The author raises a point concerning the verse he quotes in Surah Al-Imran verse 169 where it says that the slain Live(in the present tense) with their Lord. Does this not mean they are in paradise? The problem is, the author does not know much about Islam. The dead are indeed alive, but not in this realm. They are alive in the realm called “barzakh” or the realm in between this world and the hereafter. Even the Prophets are alive as we find in the famous hadith,”Al-Anbiya’ Ahaya Fi quburihim Yusallun” (The Prophets are alive in their graves worshipping). That does not mean if you dig their graves you’re going to find them bowing up and down in the ground(which is impossible). It is speaking about the metaphysical. The realm that we cannot percieve. For further explanation concerning the verse please refer to Mufti Shafi’ Usmani’s Ma’riful Qur’an on pages 246-247. It is sufficient to mention here that the life of those who have passed away is beyond our human comprehension:

“And do not say about those who are slain in the way of Allah, “They are dead.” Rather, they are living, thought you percieve not.” (2:154)

The basic idea is that both Muslims and disbelievers will have to walk over a kind of sirat or path over hell-fire. Those who are true to God and have no sins that must be accounted for and aren’t forgiven will pass through hell unscatched over the sirat. That is the first group of people. The second group of people are believers who will walk the sirat but will fall down into hell for their disobedience wherein their body and soul will be cleansed. They will remain there for an appointed time and will be released by the grace of Allah and admitted into paradise after having served time. The third group are the disbelievers who will walk the sirat and fall into hell and remain there forever. Thus, this is the first and accepted interpretation within Sunni Orthodox Islam.

At this point it must be clarified that entry into hell does not necessitate burning in hell. But condemned into hell certainly does. The established concept in Ahl Sunnah Wal Jama’ah as we have just seen is quite simple and makes a lot of sense. Let us now look at some of the major renderings of the verse:

“Not one of you but will pass over it: this is, with thy Lord, a Decree which must be accomplished.” (Yusuf Ali)

“There is not one of you but shall approach it. That is a fixed ordinance of thy Lord.” (Pickthall)

“There is none among you who does not have to arrive at it. This is undertaken by your Lord as an absolute decree, bound to be enforced.” (Mufti Taqi Uthmani)

“And every one of you will come within sight of it: this is, with thy Sustainer, a decree that must be fulfilled.” (Muhammad Asad)

The basic idea given by the above translations is that everyone will arrive, see and pass/walk over hell. Now let’s look at the verses that speak about descending unto/to.

“There is not one of you who shall not go down to it: such is a thing decreed, determined by your Lord.” (Qaribullah)

“No one is there of you who shall not go down unto it-this is a settled decree with thy Lord-” (Rodwell)

*Notice that none of them say going into or entering. Going down to and going into are two different things. For example, if I’m in a second floor of a building and want to go to a restaurant which is on the first floor I might say,”I’m going down to the restaurant” and if I do go down to the first floor and arrive at the restaurant and am standing in front of it BUT NOT in it I may describe my location as “I am at the restaurant”. That is indeed quite different from saying “I am in the restaurant”. Likewise, the translations do not say that all will go down into it, but rather go down to it. The only translation that I know of which says about being “in” is George Sale’s:

“There shall be none of you, but shall descend into the same hell: This is an established decree upon thy Lord.”

I would rather go with the other 15 translations along with Mufti Taqi Uthmani’s etc. than with this lone ranger. However, let us say for the sake of argument that my explanation about “going down to vs going down into” is stretching it too much and that Qaribullah, Rodwell and Arberry is also talking about going into hell like George Sale. Do we then not have a contradiction between the translations and the understandings adduced? Is everyone including the Muslims going into hell or not?

To answer this question I will first quote from Tafsir Ma’riful Qur’an by the father of Mufti Taqi Uthmani, Mufti Shafi’ Usmani rahimullah. We read in the tafsir the following explanation:

“And there is non among you who is not to arrive at it.”(19:71)

This means that everybody – be he a believer or an infidel – will go across hell. However, this does not mean that they will go to stay in it; they would go only across it. But even if the word means “entry”, then the pious believers on entry into Hell will feel no discomfort because its fires will cool down and will do no harm to them. Sayyidna Abu Sumayya r.a. has related that the Holy Prophet s.a.w. once said that:

“Everybody whether he is a pious man or a sinner will initially enter hell, but for the pious believers the fire will cool down just as the fire of Namrud cooled down as Sayyidna Ibrahim a.s. was cast into it. Thereafter, the believers will be taken into paradise.”

This view is confirmed by the next sentence ثُمَّ نُنَجِّي ٱلَّذِينَ ٱتَّقَواْ which means then We will save those who feared Allah – 19:72. A similar view has also been expressed by Sayyidna Ibn Abbas r.a., thus even if the word wurud occuring in the Qur’an is taken to mean dukhul(entry), then the word dukhul will be interpreted as synonymous with the word ‘ubur(going across). Thus, there is no contradiction in the meaning of the word.

(Ma’riful Qur’an, Volume 6, pg. 63)

In other words, even if one were to take wariduha to mean enter it does not contradict the established idea of walking the sirat over hell fire. It is quite easily reconciled. Let us consider this example. Ali enters the store and walks on a plank over it. He has entered the store and is inside it even though he’s walking over it on a plank. Let’s consider another example. Ali takes a flight from Barnaby, Canada and heads to Malaysia. Somehow, his flight has to fly over Seattle. Has he entered the USA? The answer is of course yes. But, would you automatically say he is going to stay there or that he is on America(walking on the earth e.g. roads)? NO!. Likewise, if the Qur’an says in a general manner enter into it(hell) does that automatically necessaitate walking in hell(through the fire) and staying there? No! As we have seen, to enter does not necessarily mean staying or walking on. To enter can also mean walking or flying over. It is to say that you are entering the domain and that’s it! The verse is general in sense, so to understand what wariduha actually means(and not just translates into) we have to find specific explanations in the Sunnah. We have seen that the sunnah explains that it means walking over it via the sirat. And the following verse makes it clear that those who have had taqwa will be saved and those who have done evil will remain(either indefinitely or temporarily depending on the individual’s belief as we have elucidated earlier).

2. The verse refers to those who rebel against Allah.

This is the position of some scholars as Muhammad Asad mentions in his commentary:

“* v.71 : Lit., “none of you but will reach it.” According to some of the classical authorities, the pronoun “you” relates to the sinners spoken of in the preceding passages, and particularly to those who refuse to believe in resurrection;” Source

The context begins from verse 66 to 72:

The article continues:

On the other hand, we read also that,



There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
Afterwards he may save some of the pious, God-fearing Muslims out of the burning fire.
– Sura 19:71-72
Or as Arberry translates it more literally:



No one of you there is, but he shall go down to it; That for thy Lord is a thing decreed, determined. Then We shall deliver those that were god-fearing; and the evildoers We shall leave there, hobbling on their knees.
– Sura 19:71-72
This verse tells clearly that all Muslims [everybody] will go to Hell, (inevitable, decreed, determined) and only some of them will eventually be rescued from Hell, while others will be left there forever.

Obviously, it cannot be that all go through hell (Sura 19:71) and that martyrs go directly to paradise, being spared hell, and “they live (present tense), finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.”



MY RESPONSE:

Now, we have arrived to the verse proper i.e. Surah Maryam(19), verse 71 and also verse 72 which the author claims reads:

There will be no one of you who will not enter it (Hell).
This was an inevitable decree of your Lord.
Afterwards he may save some of the pious, God-fearing Muslims out of the burning fire.
– Sura 19:71-72

Before we delve into the verses I would like to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that most of the major translations of the Qur’an do not render it as “enter it (Hell).” In fact, most of the major translations translate the verse as passing over; coming to it; arriving at or coming into sight of. In fact out of the 16 translations that I have only four give the impression or idea of entering into hell by using words like “descending to” namely, Rodwell, George Sale, A.J. Arberr and Qaribullah. The first three are non-Muslim translations whereas Qaribullah is a Muslim. Secondly, the author has translated verse 72 as:

“Afterwards he may save some of the pious, God-fearing Muslims out of the burning fire. “

This rendering is totally false! Nowhere in the verse is there a mention of “may” or “some”. The author has blatantly mistranslated it to convey a bias meaning. It is a most disingenuous translation. A reliable rendering would have it as:

“But We shall save those who guarded against evil, and We shall leave the wrong-doers therein, (humbled) to their knees.”

Let us now begin an analysis of the verses. Generally, verse 71 is approached in two ways.

1. The verse speaks about passing over the bridge which everyone will have to do. Those who have taqwa will be saved whilst those who disbelieved will remain in hell.

2. The verse speaks about those who rebel against Allah and not the Muslims.

Elaboration:

1. Passing over it on a bridge.

Tafsir Ibn Kathir explains:

“The bridge over Hell is like the sharp edge of a sword. The first group to cross it will pass like a flash of lightning. The second group will pass like the wind. The third group will pass like the fastest horse. The fourth group will pass like the fastest cow. Then, the rest will pass while the angels will be saying, `O Allah save them, save them.’ ” This narration has supporting narrations similar to it from the Prophet in the Two Sahihs and other collections as well. These narrations have been related by Anas, Abu Sa`id, Abu Hurayrah, Jabir and other Companions, may Allah be pleased with them all. …

(There is not one of you but will pass over it “The passing of the Muslims (over the Hellfire) means their passing over a bridge that is over it. But the passing of the idolators over the Hellfire refers to their admission to the Fire.” As-Suddi reported from Murrah, from Ibn Mas`ud, that he said concerning Allah’s statement,

Then We shall save those who had Taqwa. ) When all of the creatures passed over the Hellfire, and those disbelievers and the disobedient people who are destined to fall into it because of their disobedience, Allah will save the believers and the righteous people from it because of their deeds. Therefore, their passing over the bridge and their speed will be based upon their deeds that they did in this life. Then, the believers who performed major sins will be allowed intercession. The angels, the Prophets and the believers will all intercede. Thus, a large number of the sinners will be allowed to come out of Hell. The fire will have devoured much of their bodies, except the places of prostration on their faces. Their removal from the Hellfire will be due to the faith in their hearts. The first to come out will be he who has the weight of a Dinar of faith in his heart. Then, whoever has the next least amount after him. Then, whoever is next to that after him, and so forth. This will continue until the one who has the tiniest hint of faith in his heart, equal to the weight of an atom. Then, Allah will take out of the Fire whoever said “La ilaha illallah,” even one day of his entire life, even if he never performed any good deed. After this, no one will remain in the Hellfire, except those it is obligatory upon to remain in the Hellfire forever. This has been reported in many authentic Hadiths from the Messenger of Allah . This is why Allah says, (Then We shall save those who had Taqwa. And We shall leave the wrongdoers in it, Jithyya.) ” Source

In a hadith Qudsi narrated by Anas bin malik r.a. we read :

“Wa Izzatti Wajalali Warahmati La Ada’u Finnar Ahadan Qala : “La Ila Ha Illa Allah”.” (Rawahu Tamam ‘an Anas bin Malik)

The hadith means that Allah says, “By My majesty and glory and mercy, I will not leave a person in hell who says,”La Ila Ha Illa Allah.”

In another hadith Qudsi narrated by Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri r.a. we read:

“Yaqulullah Ta’ala Yaum Al-Qiyamah Saya’lamu Ahl Al-Jam’i Al-Yaum man Ahl Al-Karm. Qeela man Ahl Al-Karam Ya Rasulullah? Qala Ahl Majalis Al-Dhikri Fil Masajid.”

The hadith means, “Allah Ta’ala says on judgment day, “Today, all who gather here will know who the people of righteousness are. Rasulullah was asked: who are they? He answered: They are those who attend gatherings of dhikr in mosuqes” (Rawahu Ahmad wa Abu Ya’la)

The first hadith informs us that Allah will not abandon anyone who testifies to His oneness and believes in it whole-heartedly(in light of all other narrations concerning Tawhid) in hell. The second narration informs us that those who attend gatherings of dhikr(remembrance[to Allah]) will be counted among the Ahlul Karam or people of righteousness. As we have seen in the verses quoted from the Qur’an those who do righteousness will be immensely rewarded.

The article continues:

The following passages of the Qur’an support the general Muslim belief that the martyrs go to paradise immediately:



And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah,
forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.
And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.
– Sura 3:157-158
Think not of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead.
Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;
– Sura 3:169
Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods;
for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise):
they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain:
a promise binding on Him in truth,
through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur’an:
and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah?
then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded:
that is the achievement supreme.
– Sura 9:111
MY RESPONSE:

The claim that is made regarding the verses quoted in the article is,”general Muslim belief that the martyrs go to paradise immediately”. Nowhere in the verses given do we find a suggestion that they will immediately be admitted into paradise. One would like to see where words like فورا occur anywhere in the verses cited that would carry the meaning of “immediately”. The fact is no such word is to be found in them. Let’s have a closer look at the first verse cited.

And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah,
forgiveness and mercy from Allah are far better than all they could amass.
And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! it is unto Allah that ye are brought together.
– Sura 3:157-158

Notice that the first part says, “And if ye are slain, or die, in the way of Allah”. Why does it mention “slain OR die” ? Why does it not just “if ye are slain in the way of Allah”? The original Arabic reads, ” وَلَئِنْ قُتِلْتُمْ فِي سَبِيلِ ٱللَّهِ أَوْ مُتُّمْ which is transliterated as “Wala’in Qutiltum Fi Sabilillah Aw Muttum”. Literally the verse would be rendered as, “Wala’in(and if) Qutiltum(you are killed) Fi(in) Sabilillah(the way of Allah) Aw(OR) muttum(you die)” = “And if you are killed in the way of Allah or you die”. This is what we will find in the translation of Mufti Taqi Uthmani:

“If you are killed in the way of Allah or die, the forgiveness from Allah and the mercy is far better than what they accumulate”

and the translation of Marmaduke Pickthall:

“And what though ye be slain in Allah’s way or die therein ? Surely pardon from Allah and mercy are better than all that they amass.”

and the translation of The Royal Al-Bayt Institute:

“And if you are slain in God’s way, or die, forgiveness from God and mercy are better than what they amass.”

The point of the above excercise is to show you beyond any shadow of a doubt that the verse is referring to two groups of people and that slain and die are not used synonymously for the same people. The ones who are addressed as slain or killed(Qutiltum) in the way of Allah are the shuhada’ or martyrs and the ones who are addressed as die(muttum) is in reference to those who die on the path/way of Allah namely, the mu’minun(believers) as Pickthall points out “die therein(in the way of Allah)”. Thus, the verse which the author used in regards to the salvation of the martyrs whom he claimed would go straight to jannah actually addresses those who die ordinarily on the path of Allah i.e. the believers and those who do righteous works as well! Indeed, by the Rahmah and Grace of Allah both groups shall enter the paradise.

@Davidylan: Please ol boy, open the window of the lab, to let in some fresh air. At the same time, the toxin plume should find other places to go.

Show me one instance where the Jews rejected being called sons of god and or god directly. Didnt Jesus use this as part of his primary statement, until you guys (christians) say he is the begotten son?

You must be kidding me. You darn maverick. The Bible is laughable at best. While the Jews called themselves sons and "ye are gods," they conveniently find way to fight your god, Jesus for being called begotten son!

Go sidon on the lab stool.

Have you yet attempted the experiment of the look of water surface at sunset when the light from the disappearing sun hits it? It is murky man. Murky man.

the Eru of Jesus as his servant, worshipper is not Eru, like that of the worshipper of Allah. And while the Eru of muslim wife to her husband by contract can be ended, how does the Eru of Jesus work? Is there an end?

The constitution of the United States, supersedes the essential freedom of people since at least 911, if anyone denied it wasnt before it. At least the good of the individual is inferior to the collective good of the whole community.

I wonder if the Eru by deeds and not by name is not a glorfied "Eru?" I think the Bible says the wife is not equal to the husband, as it says man is the head of the household. Right?

Not Eru indeed.

@dexmond: Your defination of the meaning "wari-duha" is wrong. Passing over it, is what "wari-duha" means. There is no reason for a bridge to be erected over hell, except it serves a purpose. The purpose in this case is part of the process of Trial, Justice and Mercy of Allah. All mankind will be tried. Some will receive due Justice by falling into hell, when trying to cross over. These are the disbelievers.

Others, the believers, InshaAllah am one of them and so are the muslims from this generations to the last of them on earth, will cross successfully, by verious degrees of speed. They will not fall into the hell like the "nonMuslims" who will definitely be unsuccesful in their effort to cross over hell "throough the bridge."

Below is what an Islamic scholar says, on Fatwa.com

Islamic Fatwas 1178 Fatwas Available

Concerning the saying of Allaah “There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell)”
Question:

I read this verse in Surah Maryam:
{There is not one of you but will pass over it Wariduha (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished. Then We shall save those who use to fear Allâh and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell).}(Maryam 19:71-72)

I would like to know the meaning of this verse, especially the meaning of “Wariduha.” In At-Takhwif Minan-Nar, Ibn Rajab states that the scholars differ concerning the meaning of “Wurud”: Does it mean to enter the Fire, which would mean that both the believers and the disbelievers will enter the Fire, and then Allaah Almighty will save the believers from it? Or does it mean crossing the path, which is like the edge of a sword, and across which the first group of believers will cross like lightening, the second like wind, the third like the best of horses, the forth like the best of camels and other animals, and then the angels will passover

Answer:

There are authentic Hadiths that clearly show that Wurud is referring to the passing over the path, which is erected over the Hellfire – may Allaah Almighty protect us from it. People will go across it, and their speed will be according to their deeds, a fact that we learn from Hadiths

Shaykh `Abdul-`Azeez Bin Baz
Fatawa Islamiyah, vol.7, p.155, DARUSSALAM

Other subjects of interest:

Belief in the Qur`aan
Commentary

2009 FatwaIslam.Com
Fatwa - Islamic Rulings - Islamic Scholars

Finally, the Prophet (AS) by his Lord, Allah the Almighty is the one out of human, muslims who have the final say of what a thing in the Quran means. Otherswill have to accept his definition. There is no way anyone can imagine that a prophet so honored will enter hell. Afterall, he is a muslim, too. To all of you who are not muslims, if you are sincerely seeking knowledge, it is okay for us, regardless of how you word your questions.

We will InhaAllah approach your concerns in the best matter. Hopefully we will give you the correct and the best meaning and understanding.

To you who think that you are undermining Islam, your case is with Allah your Lord and creator. There is nothing you can do to Isam. Definitely. And there is no muslim that will fall out of islam, except those whose heart have been wanting to go off course. You only in this case serve as the conduit. You have done nothing except the Biblical action of Judas Iscariot betrayal act., only. According to you, it was bound to happen. Judas was just the vessel

you are now speaking shakespeare era English? I thought yu are in the 2009? why thou goest back to yesteryears?

I ask you, in modern English; you think you make any sense?

I have already accepted your challenge. Are yoou going to accept your own challenge? Which one of the gods is holding you back on this challenge?


Funny characer you are, man. Like the haha type, I mean!

@georgecso: Ol boy, it was before his death. If it was after his death, he was right just as well. As you know, today there are so many versions and revised versions, just as many as there are groups of Christians.

By the way, you are wrong: Muhammad (AS) was an illiterate that could not even write his own name. So reading your Bible, if that was possible would be serving as another miracle of his prophethood.

And when you make a statement about an original in Madina, you shoot yourself in the foot. If there is an original in Madna then or even then, you have the fakes in the circulation within the Christian community, since that time onward. Another proof of his prophethood, since he did not subscribe, in the long run to the bible. Yet he had the only Original, while you who will live and die by it carries around the fake, versions and vevisions. Thats according to you now.

and the name is Olabowale. I wonder where you get your "s"?

@Noetic: I am not housed on Nairaland. I have answered you. If Allah is an idol I will leave Islam. If you are able to provide, for every verse of Mercy, Forgiveness, Kindness, Compassion, graciousness, etc, you are able to have 5 verses for unmeritted punishment, I will leave Islam.

I made this statement with the sincerity of heart, since I know that you will definitely fail in your plan. The Nairalanders, men and women, will be the referees, here beacse you are man of deceit. I personally do not trust you. I mean that in all sincerity.

Now, when this is all over, and you are left in the dusr, defeated, will you have the spine to get up from begging Jesus, who is not going to help you in this matter of ours? Will you also get of from begging holy Ghost, who is in capable of helping, too, since am confident of his inability, without help? Well then, if your two gods; Jesus and then Holy Ghost cant do nothing to help you, and your Father will also not help you, and come to islam, where Allah is Enough to do all things?

If you dont come then, I will forever close my eye at your existence! Deal since you have called for my affirmation?

Noetic I dont have to open a thread about Christians converting to Islam. Your mind is gone and your blindness is worse than that of the proverbial blindness of the bats!

You live in England, at least whats what you said and I have no reason to doubt you. Look around the British "Englishmen; white people." Is there anyone of them who is a muslim, without any reason at all, except conviction? YOu bet. You cant be whiter than a 1970's Rocker; Singer "Cat Stevens" in his disbelieving era! Unfortunately, you didn't know anything about the 70's, so!

Here in America, coming into Islam, is nothing new that it becomes a novelty! No, sir. Go to black communities of America. And many did not convert in Prison, two. There are 3 and 5 and 5 generations Black people who are Muslims. And they are not Nation of Islam's Farrakhan type, either.

And it is you, noetic who is rubbish, because you think you can escape reality by just saying "everything you don't agree with is Rubbish!" Yet you dont have the "standing up" to refute any of the statement, and you can't logically defend your position, too.


And I will be ready to provide verses of Mercy, Kindness, Forgiveness, etc in the Quran, against your supposed " evil verses talking about punishment", except that you are confusing Justice with Evilness.

@Wisedge and Davidylan: Christianically speaking (lol at Davidylan), does it make sense, if #B., Chief J. O. Ibori, got excited, and then collapsed; will it be possible that #A. Mr. James Ibori and #E. Mr. J. O. B. Ibori are the only two who will accompany him in the ambulance to the "Hospital" for medical attention? And stay with him, running the errants, and making sure the Doctors and Nurses take good care of the sick chief, while the others are doing other things, as follows?

And interestingly, while the three are away from the house at the hospital, #C. Mr. Onafede Barowa Ibori keeps the family and the house together and running without anyone missing a bit? And #D. Governor James conducting his governorship, without letting his state down?

Incidentally, A and D are both James Ibori(s), in two places at the same time; "A" Ibori is in the hospital, while "" Ibori as the Governor is running his state!

You two; does your scenerio make any sense? If it does, then tell me how my scenerio above, is not possible by a single man, Ibori?As there ever been a person in two places at the same time? Can one single matter occupies two distictive spaces at the same time?


I think it makes sense, Chritainically speaking, David. No?

@$Osisi: We have known each other (on this board) for sometime, now. I have always admired your conviction and your strenght in yor belief, right belief or wrong belief, whatever it may be. But in all of this time, since 2006, late, have you been able to put a "dent" on Islam, among the nairalanders? No!

For you now to be so "frustrated", in my opinion, to now be peddling "Nation of Islam" as authentic part of Islam, is far out, indeed! Let me give you what is siimilar to what you are doing with the "Farrakhan" people, above; Its like a man in name only, neither active nor seek the remedy for his impotency, all of a sudden, when faced with reality proclaims that he is the father of a "still birth" baby.

The woman who is grieved by the lost, may not comment on the "false claim", but she does know for sure that if the baby had lived, will sure not have the man's last name, and will not look like anybody in his bloodline, because their is no family ties, whatsoever!

A muslim, if you do not know, is not just by name. If it has been just by name, Pilgrim, whose family name is still islamic, if we go by her grandfather, will be muslim!

Islam, in itself, is the two Kalimas; Oneness of Allah and that Muhammad (AS) is the last link of the chain of Messengers and or Prophets (AS). Then it means you cant regress to take Jesus and ignore Muhammad. It truly means that you can take only Muhammad and the others, Jesus, Moses, etc come under Muhammad. For example it is not permissible to copy Jesus when it comes to marriage, since he was not married! And it is not permissible to forbid something for yourself, if its made allowable, like the forbidding of hindquarter meat that Jacob (AS) forbade himself.

Finally, you must pray 5 times, the compultory required daily prayers. Now this one separates the Muslims from the nonMuslims! Do the nation of Islam people make Salah? The answer is no! I know, because I have mistakingly gone to them, thinking I can make Salah, since some of them have the decal "Mosque", in front of their buidings!

Stop fronting, woman. If you are so sure of Christianity and your 1 god in 3 personalities; Jesus, Ghost and Father: Who is it that you pray to? All of them? That will be polytheism. No? Just one of them? That will amount to disregarding the other two. No?

Either way, you are between a rock (boulder) and a hard place (Concrete cement slabs with stell reinforcement). You will lose, for sure.

@Noetic: You are plainly, "the Rubbish!"

Only a human with ostrich head in the sand syndrome thinks like you! I simply ask you, (Dumb Waiter), if its now out of fashion to use Eledumare for Creator, now that you are a Christian? Your slick Willie self can answer yes or no! It is clear that Oduduwa used to say Eledumare, when refering to his Creator!

Now, was there a Yoruba idol named Eledumare? You need a good lesson in your culture, Yoruba. Then you need a good lesson in Judeo-Christian culture, first, before you graduate to receiving lectures in the Ph. D. Program of human civilization; Islamic Culture!

Now, if there is an idol called "Allah", I will leave Islam! Now if I can show you that you worship three gods; The unidentified holy ghost, then the human god Jesus son of Mary nd then Father who is not complete, according to you without having the other two gods, will you do the right thing and get out of "filth" because of the "blood associations, like the way the "Ogun worshippers do with dog beheading, or te Shango worshippers with their Palm oil stained clothings?

@Davidylan: I am always surprised when I read how you shackled up, your logic because of your hatred of Islam. You always come up exposed, without anyone having to open up any layer(s) of the Onion. It is always the same thing with you!

While you wanted the Muslims, Abuzola to unearth a single source of where Uzair (EZRA) was called "son of God," you completely forgot that your Bible itself, is a proof of what the Jews said!

Was Uzair/Ezra a person of Jewish blood? Answer is Yes.

In the pages of the Bible, is there a verse that mentioned the Jews as a body of people, accepting themselves as children of God? The answer is yes. What else do you need, except that you just have to reflect prior to this kind of challenge coming from you!

Today the Christians call themselves Children of God. They call themselves Children of Jesus, also. In 100 years from now, if a man said that $Osisi used to call Pilgrim.1 daughter of God and daughter of Jesus, and Davidylan and Noetic did not object, but Abuzola and Lagosboy did. If such a person who made this "accusation" was from a bloodline of a Nairalander who lived in Russia or England, etc. But his listener challenged him that it was a lie. Between the two who will be telling the truth, at that time?

This is the case of your probing. Now I found by asking; was there a jewish group that called Ezra son of God in a honoring gesture? I got this below which I did nt open. But I think the pundits can have a go at it:

[DOC] Part II: BreakthroughFile Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
Nov 28, 2006 , This term “son of God” is even used in the 1st century Dead Sea Scrolls , The Qur'an confirmed first century Jewish manuscripts in which some Jews , 9:30 “Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ , special place of honor) 3:45. God “blessed Him wherever he was” 19:31 ,
www.georgetowncollege.edu/regents/news/documents/siljnder_lecture_oxford_11_28_06.doc - Similar