₦airaland Forum

@$Osisi: No true to the core Muslim man would opt in walking behind any woman, except his wife's. So don't worry no one of us, with true Islam in his heart will choose to walk behind you, espectially now that we know you will have too many thoughts running throw your mind, with skid marks on your heart.

Like Prophet Joseph (AS), we should avoid the temptations. Like Prophet Moses (AS), we will prefer to be in front. Its better for our hearts that way.

Now, you must know that I do not know a country on earth, today that is ruled by sharia; from Quran and explanations in the Ahadith. None. That includes Saudi Arabia. The fact that the Saud family "Humphey Bogard" the land where Islam was completed goes against Islam an you cant establish Sharia by first opposing Islam. Muhammad (AS) did not change the name of Madina, from Taif. Nor did he change the name Makka.

The fact that these saudi law makers are in lock-steps with the arab ruling houses do not mean that they are truly enacting Sharia. There is no place that it is recorded that Muhammad (AS) married more than Aisha (RA), among all the women and families wanting himto marry them or from them, among the young. It simply points to the fact that Aisha is a special woman and I have ahadith supporting my statement.

The point is this, a judge ruling that a woman can not divorce a husband on just a strong ground as man may use to divorce his wife is ignorant. A judge ruling that the face can be slapped is extremely ignorance, when it is the singly part of honor in allhuman body!

However as I disagree with the arabs and those who are practicing fake Sharia and calling it Sharia of Allah, they need to be fearful of Allah's wrath. But woman, you forgot that the children of Israel are not fairing better. I think all kind of lewdness, and human trafficking for sex is in the hearts and ands of the Jews. Is this what they are fighting to gain the land for? Was this why Moses came to rescue them? Was this the reason Jesus came to be their Mesiah?

And to the guy who was talking about he and his friends contacts with the woman wearing Burka, their reactions to that woman is the reason for the commandment to cover up. Allah says in Surah Ahzah that women (in sexual ages) should cover up s that they could be identified in the general sense as Muslim women, when they are out. And that they should not be molested, by men whose hearts are sexually perverted.

Even with the "unattractive" woman wearing her burka, minding her own business, going on her way, these guys even from their watering hole (the bar) are still able to make their offcuff remarks. Can you imagine if she was as "pretty" as $Osisi, who will be wearing less clthing, am sure and would not mind these nonMuslims men walk behind her? They probabl will be saivatin, if not all the way drooling like the Komono lizard, when food is in sight!

These hounddogs are the very reason that women should be covered up. I would not let my women be around these drunks. Finally, real men don't beat their woman.

Looking at the facial expression of the woman with noose around her neck, she is a great believer to have this calm expression. May Allah make her people of jannah. Amin.

If its a staged thing, like the many stages to demean Islam, then the author must have some screws loose in the head.

@$Osisi: In all of the years that I have been reading Quran, I have not read in any verse that Allah the Almighty Irresistable Creator said that people should be hanged. I have not read the ahadith as much as I have read the Quran. I will now begin to seek knowledge about killing and hanging, in particularly.

Now, I dont know if you have thought that the woman who is going to be killed should be stripped naked, or take off her Islam from her, before being killed? You need to explain yourself. I though a person who submit to theruling of Allah in Islam is muslim. If she renounced Islam, I think no one would be foring the ruling of Allah on her. Afterall, no one is telling a nonMuslim to submit him/herself to Islamic laws. Or have I ever attempted to force you to wear Hijab (even though I would be happy if you do. And your boo, a long robe. Lol)?

@Stillwater: God seeing the heart does not mean you should do evil things privately or publicly, either. The end does not justify the means. The means must always commensurate (wholesome) as the end. You can arrive at success through evil means/process. To God, that will be unacceptable, because you have circumvented His Orders.


@Noetic2: Your statement is very Chaotic. Hijab is not meant for fools. Its meant for people who have good convictions in their hearts. I am sure a perverted mind wants to see the other sex (expectially men of women) dress down to almost nothingness; to throw the badboys out there for everyone to gork at. You will like that, or will you not, Noetic2?

@No2Atheism: Lagos is not based on the number of churches and not on the what I will refer to "Awon Omo atowun rewa." Thats yoruba idiom for you. If you don't know the meaning better ask somebody.

But I will give you an example: In Ibadan, the Ijebus are so many that they have significance in that ancient "village." The rose through the rank of chieftancy to "almost" become an "Olubadan." Have they? No. Do the indigenous Ibadan agree that the ijebus in Ibadan are Ibadan people? No, regardless of how many generations they may be. Ibadans are truly by bloodline history. So the Ijebus will always be traced back to outside Ibadan, city, towns and villages (Ijebuland) on the way to Lagos.

Do you get it now? Lagos belong to those who have real Lagos blood. Not the transcients. At the end of the day, their family names betray their origin. Its like being a new yorker. It belongs to those Mayflower people.

If Lagos is not Islamic city, I wonder if Ibadan is, or if Ijebu Ode is, etc? Or if Epe or Ikorodu is?

I think Tudor is single. Maybe he is asexual, not interested in opposite sex, or no woman wants him. No wonder he is so malicious and displays hostility to true blue women and real men. The men who are not trying to be women are the people he hates most. You know the men when you see them, you know they are men, without any doubt. No earrings, or any of the ways of women, like clean face. Duuh, Tudor.

I am sure there are women in Seychelles. Do exactly the opposite of what they do. Maybe some woman may finally complement your lonely heart to marriage. Don;t be hating, you big hater.

@Davidylan: Please don't get caught up with a nightmare that will defnitely come to disbelievers. Hell is not a myth. Summer is coming, and when you are hot, please know that hell will be extremely hotter. And there is no Air Conditioner to turn on. No cold drink to quench the thirst. No fresh Icy or Ice Cream to indulge on. No trees to seek shade from. No picturestic park with people strolling by and laughing children, and lakes and park bench to lazy on. Hell will be a place of torture. Gitmo would be desired by the inhabitants of hell.

@Reindeer: Am watching the sun setting on the Atlantic Ocean right now. I see a murky water, which the bottom can't be seen because of the weakness of the "dying" sun.  THis is a reminder to you, Dave. Perform the experiment and tell us your finding. You don't even have to don a lab coat!

Reindeer, thanks my man. The dude is not serious. I don't wanna my time with playas. He quoted a verse from the Quran, he intentionally quoted it wrongly. Shameful, I will say.

My being a muslim is because Allah guides my heart to it. Therefore I realise that He is my LOrd and God and no partnership with Him. I do not have to have a 3 master, acting as 1. I don't have to wonder if I am worshipping a Master who died, even if only temporarily. My soul longs fo Allah. My heart loves to worship Him. I do not want to enter hell which He promised to disbelievers.

As much as other religion, especially christianity, to run rabid or burst loose and do what I want and hang my hat on a believe that a man died for me, I know that such a belief is warped, unfair and will not come from a Lord Who is Able. He Allah in Islam has allowed me to put my own destiny in my own hand, which is consistent with "free will" tat man has.

Need to say more?

@Dayokanu: Who is using terror; The Ogoja youth fighting for their lands and right as Nigerians or the Nigerian government?

@Yeswecan: « #37 on: June 05, 2009, 03:17 PM »

@ Lagosboy
Extremist is a supporter or advocate of extreme doctrines or practices. Are the Taliban representing extreme doctrines of your religion? Do you know "extreme doctrines" are the "original and undiluted doctrines"? Your comment on of Islam on women education is indeed laughable. Everyone knows Islamic religion has no regards for women. Please read Ibime’s comment right in from of you.

I am going to respond to your view of woman conditions in Islam. But let me first say that Taliban, Alqaida, or others if they deviate (as I personally believe they have) from what is in Quran and Hadith/sunnah are wrong. Islam is too large and fast that any group other than an elected Kalifa/Emir collectively agreed as leader. No pseudo leadership in Islam. Allah say to the Muslims; Hold on to the rope of Allah together, and do not divide among yourselves. There is nothing called extreme doctrine. I do not know how you arrive at your laughable statement? Islam is neither unoriginal or diluted. Islam is what it is, all the time. I think you need to study the Quran, the Ahadith of Muhammad and his history. Don't say laughable things because you will be wrong as you have been here.

Now as to the accusation that Islam (not muslim) has no regards for women is hereby wrong and hence laughable. Let talk about the condition of women in Makka and arab lands and the world before Islam. Islam stopped the killing of daughters by burying them alive. Islam allowed Women to own properties, and not be viewed as properties. Islam brought man and women to equality in their services to Allah their Creator. Islam allows a woman to accept or rejects marriage proposal. Forced marriage is disallowed. A woman can even propose marriage. Woman must keep their family name (last name) in marriage, so that the family bloodline is kept. Please tell which religion allows this; Christianity or Judaism?

Woman is allowed to retire by making decision to work or not work for a living. I wonder where you get your laughable idea? I think you confused tribal traditions and culture with Islam. If you are a woman, Islam liberated women over 1400 years ago, while women in America did not get their right to vote until the past century and a little earlier! Yet, today the wonderful USA still have in their constitution, a lack of representation in the congress for the people men and women in Washington, DC!

Swallow that.

@Dayokanu: Islam is not synonimous with Terror. Terror is in many more places. You have terrorist Jews and Christians and others. Suicide bombing did not start from the ignorant muslim who practice it. The tyme Tigers started it (i am sure I spelled their name wrong). Jews used to do wholesale terrorism: King David Hotel in ilya (Jerusalem) destructions by bombing it to ruin, resulted to many Englishmen death. I wonder if you are not aware that the killing of the Abortion Doctor by a conservative Christian is terror, too?

Negro Ntns: « #39 on: Today at 06:04:53 AM »

[Quote]
Nature is not stagnant. . . When nature resonates a truth within one's soul then it should be acknowledged. If the Imam gave a sermon that resonates truth, the congregation or Jamaa responses with Takbir - Allahu Akbar! In the case of President Obama's speech, a clap, a nod. . .some kind of responsive acknowledgement is appropriate to feedback to him, the speaker, that we hear you and we bear testimony in our soul that you speak the truth. Now, this is different from "group-clap", so to speak, where people clap to make the speaker feel good for his/her contribution but the speech itself did not have any memorable impact on the audience.[/quote]Islam is not stagnant, either. Thats why the completion of the process, with human being started with Adam (AS) and completed with Muhammad (AS). Muhammad said that his prophetic time is the midtime between Adam and end time. Unless you will tell me that Islam is not complete with Muhammad, then the progressiveness of Islam is not slower than that of "nature." However, what is wrong is wrong, however you color it. Allah says no clapping. That was it.

The Muslims who listened to Presiden BarackAllah Hussaine Obama were not forced. They could have nodded or shouted Allahu Akbar. Obama would not have been offended. He probably would have expected it, instead they neither nod nor Takbir. Instead they clabbed as a "group". And takbir is not restricted to Masjid or the speech of Imams or Muslims alone.

Muslims clapping for President Obama can be taken as a congregation in the mosque responding to the Imam's sermon of spoken truth - it is soul inspiring. On the other hand, a group-clap to a corny speaker is a consolation, not necesaarily acknowledging truth but a reward for effort and this, I think, is what you are condemning.

No one says that President Obama's speech should not be viewed as what it is. Muslims, should not be less muslims just because they are listening to a President who is beloved, yet not Muslim himself. Allah says no clapping, that should have been observed.


[Quote]
These are benchmarks for the society and a bad analogy to use to rebutt my response. This analogy here is applicable if we were talking about eating pork. In that case we would be comparing apple to apple.[/quote]A muslim can eat pork in special conditions. Ok, extra ordinary conditions, knowingly. Preservation of live is more important than not eating of pork, whereby one loses that live. I guess Islam is not that hard afterall. There is no place or event that Allah permits clapping of hands. If you find it, let me know so that I can begin to clap hands, when applicable.

Ibime,

A lot of people are misguided in the principles of religious living. Many believe they are faithfuls but in actuality they are sinners. If I wanted to live my life strictly on the tenets of Islam, I would become a hermit and go into reclusion. . . far, far away from the poisonous contacts of human communities. I will live one with nature and wake up and go to bed daily seeking the face of God. But you see these people are too scared to be alone with God. Your host exhibited an understanding and interpretation of Islam that is not supported by God.

A believer should not be afraid to be alone with Allah. Infact, no one has the choice but to be alone with Allah. A believer and believer is alone with Allah, always. While one (believer) is aware of Allah, the other (disbeliever) may be or not, but knows Allah through the wrong path. It is stated when believer is afraid of Allah, he runs to Him. Seeking His Mercy.

Islam does not permit hermit living or lifestyle. I don't know why you are suggesting what Islam forbids? Muslims are expected to live a full life; praying, sleeping, seeking financial gains, etc. Everyone is a sinner by what we do daily, and not by the Christian styled Original sin. The fact that we are sinners is why seeking forgiveness is essential. We are still creations givien the ability to sin and ask for forgiveness. I pray that Allah accepts my petition of forgiveness. Amin. Same to those who are truly seeking forgiveness. Amin.

Where is it that I exhibit what is not supported by Allah? Is clapping of hands permissible? I asked because you must know that just because Arabs "Muslims" do it, it is not correct, unless Islam permits it. And when you fall asleep, you are alone with Allah. When you are awake you are alone with Allah. All the time you are alone with Allah.

A medical Doctor was killed in the US because of his performances of abortions. Guess who killed this man? A truly devoted Christian. His friend who was interviewed on CNN said that this "killer" is a devoted christian who read the word, eeryday! Such a malaque!

The same people who will kill adults who are already contributing to the society, will be claiming that they are protecting unborn, whose quality is not known, yet.

They play God and they complain about ignorant people from the rank of muslims who are doing the same.

And before David has something to say; you need to know that Masjid on 91st and 3rd avenue in Manhattan held conference and condemn any and all aspect of terrorism already. The Imam declared it is unIslamic. I have been saying that since day One. I guess the funk from lake Erie will not let you hear it, or read my entries about it all the while. You too, Dollar woman (lol) $Osisi.


Noetic, why are you a christian?

Noetic is talking about "Unfair reward" when he opened his thread. And he immediately closed that section with a wrong quote of Surah Mariam verse 71. He concluded that Muslims will enter hell, without any question. All without any exception. That will include the prophet (AS) or prophets (AS) and those who followed them (muslims)!

Indeed, it is an unfair reward, if it is true that all muslims will enter hell, first. But that is not what many verses of the Quran pointed to. In Fatiha, Allah talks about believers praying and been answered with guidiance on the straight path. I am certain that a Merciful God (Rahman) will not turn around and throw them to Hell!

Surah Baqarah immediately start with describing believers, and separate them by deeds from disbeleieving mankind. Let me go directly to Surah Kahf which is a recommended read every friday (from Thursday dusk to Friday dusk; Same calculation as the Children of Israel), towards the end, verses 107 and 108, that the believers (true Muslims) will enter Paradise. A place where there is no hardship. But wait in verses 105 and 106, Allah says about the condition of the disbelievers in their relationship to prophet and prophethood, and the abode of the disbelievers; hell!

Even if I stop here, it is very clear that Allah intends no hell for His Prophets and true believers, mumin, muslims except hypocrites; munafiqun among them. But Allah make s it clear that all disbelievers shall enter hell.

So Noetic, it is chaotic that ou deduce a wrong conclusion from Verse 71 of Surah Mariam. But by the way who is unfair to himself for looking for unfair advantage/reward, except those people who think that some man died for their sins, on a cross! Where is it written that a bearer of burden will bear burden of other people? Is anything practicable about this? Is that anything fair about this, even when the christians; noetic for example says that he will not die and flies off to the sky?

Who is closer to Jesus, Noetic or a disciple? Yet the disciple died already! Will Noetic escape death? Never. My man, you are on the wrong side of reality!

Surah Nasr, is so short. But it stated about not only the that Muhammad will die (those who have no knowledge will not see it), in addition, when the victory (nasr) of Allah comes to you (oh Muslims), and the people are entering Islam in drove, praise Allah and your asking for forgiveness will be accepted (forgiveness of sin, which leads to prevention from entering hell).

Where do you have your idea that muslims will enter hell? Do you think christians will escape it, if a single muslim enters hell? Noooooo!

@Noetic2: In my native yoruba expession; I honestly classify you as "eni ti o ni nkan she".  In simple straight forward today's expresion; you are a time waster. Reason is that you can't even state to us all that if your statement is wrong, since I am ready to prove eah and everyone of them so, you at least be ready to take shahadah. And I also state that I will prove to you that your Bible is corrupt, and that there is nothing actually amounting to Trinity in the heart of beleievers, and that Jesus is not a God, but a god (idol) in the eye of you, an idolator, and that Jesus is not the savior of you and not a prophet of your time!

Can you at least step up to this challenge of mine?! Fela said in one of his old songs; Man dey staaand, ,
Noetic, stand like a man, man. You can't even copy out the verse 71 of Surah Mariam, correctly. By the way, did you read the verses after 71, to the end of the chapter. It might worth your salvation if you read it.

You will find that Allah the Almighty says that Jesus and all things in heavens and earth are but "come to Him as slaves and servants!" And no one will be able to make intercession on the day of Judgement, except the one or ones that He Allah allows.

Considering that Allah is making this statement to His Messenger Muhammad (AS), it is not difficult to know that Muhammad is the one if its one person that will intercede. Allah says Muhammad rasulullah. And the disbelievers may not be happy, but Islam will be victorious. At last on the day of Judgement, Islam will be victorious. Muhammad (AS) will lead believers to paradise, while disbelievers and their friend, the devil will be herded to hell.

Which camp are you gonna be in, Noetic. It will be chaotic in hell. And never will there be peace in there.

Todak forgets, conveniently that cultural heritage is completely different and separate from Islam. While I, a yoruba boy do not egt into all the yoruba cultures, especially when it disagrees with Islam. I will get into for example, Igbo, Edo, Hausa etc, etc, culture whereby it agrees with Islamic culture.

For example, I will wear Izar (wrap around cloth or wrapper),. The Igbos do the same. When the arabs who kill their wives, daughters, women folks for whatever reason, I see very clearly, that it is out of Islam.

Unfortunately, Todak and the arab who did the killing are both ignorance of islamic rulings. One did the killing. The other wrongly label it. Ol boy, Todak, I have news for you, Islam is complete. Muslims are striving. The muslims should be judged as believer, or ordinary muslims or hypocrite against Quran and hadith/Sunnah. Duuh.

@$Osisi: Your 6 millions in 2008, and still 6 millions in '07, stiill 6 m in '06, and still 6 million in '05, and on and on, (please stop me or else I will go far back to the past 1950?), is a fluke. Unfortunately, the Arab Sheik accepted it, as you will remind me of his statement on Al Jezerra.

If it is 6 million yearly, it shows at least no one is buying the reason for accepting Christianity, because it should have increased yearly. In the west for example, the americans, every year, the number of the people coming to Islam, is greater significantly, tan the number that entered it the year just before. It is so significant that they begin to notice it so much that they begin a record of it. I will also tell you that the record that America keeps about islam is incorrect, because 10 years ago the staics said it is 6 millions. Yet today it is still 6 million or just at most 7! Lies, I say. You hear me, woman? Lol.

Even west virginia where I went to school, the whitest state in America has some Masajid, today. 6 Millions? Should it not be more than twice? Talk to me.

@Davidylan: Who will kill you in Lagos, Nigeria? You are a Nigerian blood, aint it the case, man?

And if the jews knew him, immediately, should they later be asking about his position? Duuh! Why is it that they refusedto accept if, if they have been expecting him and they already new him? Duuh (the 2nd time). Why would he not answer diretly, without leavng anyone to guess what he meant, or doubt his honesty, about the question they asked him, without docking? David, think my friend and stop being deluded.

And a true god does not commit murder or suicide by allowing anybody to kill him. I am just using your Bible to destroy your hypothesis, now. A true God would have been beyond death, in every sense of being alive!

Now, every prophet died for God. That means true conviction. If you read the Quran, again, you will see that Allah says if you are killed in your struggle to remain Muslim, it is a good death. Many people die for wrong reasons; men who are good husbands may be killed on the account of their wives. Should a committed believer not at least be as bold, in the proper context? I am not talking about those who say they are believers, yet they terrorise, suicide bomb, etc of others and kill themselves, in a way that disagrees with the Quran and Sunnah.

According to you Jesus died, because his father commanded him to do so. I am convinced that a person who struggles against evil, following all Quranic guidelines and the Sunnah/Ahadith that makes it plain, he is in the same believing/obedience quality as Jesus, if he/she lose his life in the process.

David, please make sense, my friend. Enough of these lies and emotional nothingness.

@Todak: Ask your Pastor about the uncorrupted Bible and see what he says. Tell himto show you one.When he does, take that same Bible to a Catholic Priest and ask him for his uncorrupted Bible. When he does, then whip the one that you got from the protestant Pastor out. Tell the Catholic priest that a pastor from the other church said what you have already in your hand is the uncotrrupted Bible.

Then look at the reaction of the Douwy Bible reading Catholic priest. Ask him if he agrees with you? Hopefully you will be ableto convince him to accept to throw away his Douwy Bible. If he did then go to the Pope to inform him of your fndings. Rather go to Arienze of Nigeria that his Douwy Bible is not the correct one. You may actually double check the two Bibles and see the number of Books in each.

Finally, go get yourself a 1952 or 1971 published Bible printed by RSV to check for 1 John 5 verse 7. Go get a Bible Printedbefore 1611 and check for the verse, too. Then check ASB bible for the wording of the same verse. In some you will not find t, and then in some you will find it, but the wording and meaning is different from the other. Now tell me which is the Uncorrupted Bible?

If a man told me that my father is not my father: I will ask my father directly if he is. Based on his answer, I will compare my features with his, and that of his bloodlines; including his children. If I am completely different from eceryone of them, then I will go ask my mother if my father is truly my father. Mother should know, right?

Young man, go ask your Pastor what I accused your Bible. Then go get the Bibles of Catholics, Coptics, Mormons, Jehovah witnesses and compare to see how each is different from the others.

Then go to 1952 or 1971 printed RSVs. Compare what you have of today's RSV to those about John 1 John 5 verse 7. The first idea is like asking a fater if a child s his offspring. The second is like asking a mother, afterwards. You are afraid of the tuth, thats why you are asking me to get your Bible for you. Thats not my job, because there is not Uncorrupt Bible. It is you who needs to proof me wrong.

Your thinking is like the thinking of the destructive Nazis after Crystalnoid (night of destructions of Jewish artifacts and religious books), and turn around to state to the Jews of today that it never happened! It is a well known event in European history just before the first rifle was fired to start ww2. Again, its like the clear event that the Jews were ghettorized to diffrerentiate them from Arian Germans, at least. Your Bible is with many verses and Bpublications and reisions and and and! All of these and the council of Nicea are indications of never stable but always changing of the Bible! Deal with it, man. You want pollution, you already have it in your hand.

And as to the nature of Jerusalem being a muslim city or not; It is very clear that it had majorty Muslims living in it, before the state of israel. Please tell me what period id it a Christian city? I for sure that the Jews were always the majority, much more large than the few Christians in it, before Islam of Muhammad. My proof is that Jews never enmass accepted Christianity. Even now, we it so.

And if you listenedto Obama, he at least stated that Muhammad was in that city and prayed with Moses and Jesus (AS). Do you think for once that if those men, Jesus and Moses were not Muslims, Muhammad will be praying with them? How was it that Moses was able to pray with Jesus except that ther religion is one singular religion; not Judaism and not Christianity.

The proofs against you is huge/heavy/overwhelming.

Islam still has Masjid Aqsa. And it has Masjid Umar,the Dome of the Rock. These buildings are the symbols of jerusalem. Go ask the Jews. They will tell you. Oh, I forgot, there is no huge jewish community in 9ja. Then use the web. Just finf Dome of the Rock. Or just Jerusalem and you will see the picture of the Buiding that will be shown. I guarantee you it will not be a church. It will not be a Jewish temple, either, but a Mosque! Now whose religion is the symbol of Jerusalem, since you are going there!

@Noetic2: The verse 71 of Chapter 19, did not say muslims will go or enter hell, you terrible reader of english writing. When you take up the challenge I will quote it exactly in English before I go to the Quranic writing. Pilgrim.1, Davidylan and co have failed badly in this same matter. I know each one of you always play blindman when it comes to seeing/reading the truth.

Am waiting for you, man? I read your opening post. I have answers ready for you, if you have the gull to accept my challenge. What tribe are you from, in Nigeria, man? I believe that the Yorubas used to know about Oluwa, Olorun, Eledumare, Eleda, etc meaning God before Christianity came and before Islam arrived there.

Today, the Christians (Kiriyos) in Yoruba language still use the words; Olorun, Oluwa, Eledumare, Eleda, etc to mean God. They have not changed or amended any of the word, and the meanings and Who it is each stands for; The Creator. The same goes for the Yoruba Muslims. I know that when I speak to my Muslim family member(s) or my mother who is now a muslim, I use the same word; Olorun, Eleda, etc, to mean Allah/God. And I will not mean Jehovah/Yahweh or the human christian god either. No sir. Let me not over kill, as I will like to lure you to stand up to my challenge.


I can not but chuckle at your ignorance and actually, worse your evilness that you are proud that your father own house maids/helps wich you a man in England, used to treat very badly. Shame on you Noetic2. You are chaotic in thought. Human beings, because of their financial and social conditions are 1/2 humans or even less than that? I wonder if you will blame the White Englishman who thinks that you are less than them because you are Black and african not European and white?

If this is your reason for not wanting to be called a slave/servant of Allah/God, go to your Bible where Jesus called himself servant and or you his servant or the servant of his Lord, Eloi. What are you  gonna do about if if Jesus says that you are his slave/servant, since you or the disciples and apostles called him your master? You must be lying then calling yourself son of God, while you are just a common slave or servant of a man who was unable to know the time of the hour, nor was not able to disallow the devil to tempt him at all. Remember the three temptations?

I got your number man, as soon as you take up my challenge, I will unload on you. InshaAllah!

@Noetic2: I am not a Messenger or Prophet (AS) of Allah (SWA). Hence I do not have their special qualities of being very very patient, etc. Now, as an ordinary human being, if you want my valuable time to read your long list of lies and respond to each, then you need to stand up to my requst about you becoming Muslim, if I succeed in disproofing your written opinion. I think that just as much as you have stood up to falsely accused Islam, as you did above, it is my obligation to defend it with the truth, as I will correct you. It is therefore to accept my challenge and walk the gauntlet, if you are sure that your list was just not empty rhethorics!

I will spend valuable time researching the Quran to disprove you. Hence I want my immediate reward. I want you to stand up to the challenge. If you are sure that you are correct then it should not be take so much than just a moment for you to sign on my proposal. I think it is a fair demand from me. I see that you are unsure of what you said, so I count you as one of the liars and I will only respond to your empty allegations about Islam, when you have the gull that every human should have to stand up to my challenge.

Now if I accuse Christianity about any ormany things and you think am not correct about, you can also challenge me in the same way. I will immediately accept your challenge, if what I wrote is true. Now I can tell you here and now that I know that your Bible is corrupt. This means that you have no single Bible that is as exactly in textural quality, etc as when it was first revealed/given/spoken/read. For example the Torah which is the Book of Moses (AS), Psalm the Book of King David (AS) and Gospel the Book of Jesus son of Mary (AS) are all not in the original word for word, as each was in the lifetime of the prophet whom I have mentioned the Book with!

My proofs are many: One is that you can not have a Torah, Psalm or Gospel that can be traced back to the period of the prophets, as mentioned above. There is none of those Books in the language (Aramaic; a semitic language) spoken by the said prophet, that we can find that will go far to that very time of of the prophet! You know there is at least carbon dating process about written words and water test about papers/sheets to determine how old and the period they first exsted! If the Christians have any of these books that can go far to the period of the Prophets, they would used the said method or even a more soffisticated one to determine and proudly announce their findings!

Afterall, the oldest or most ancient "Manuscript (LOL)" is not even close to anytime the prophet (AS) was alive, individually. THe one among them that lived most recently was Jesus. If we don't even find his own Gospel in his generation, imagine how impossible it will be to find a Psalm of David or even worse, the Torah of Moses! These proves that your Book is corrupt. And corruption means impure. The degree of impurity is not what we are talking about here. As long as it is not 100% pure, it is corrupt, at least a little!

THe Bible is not 100% word of God, withour any percentage of word of man, on the pages. The Bible has Allah has states in the Quran, have proven to us about its own man influence by the entries of Paul in Corinthians and Galathians. These and others have not only proven the impurity of your Bible, but it is proving the very verse in the Quran that states that your Bible is corrupt and that Allah Himself stands as the Guarantor of the purity of Quran.

So when you go to the Shia, you will find the same Quran as you will find with nonShia. The Ahmaddiyyans use the same Quran as nonAhmadiyyans. But we do not find the same condition in your Christian community; as we already know that the Catholic Douwy is different from the Protestant KJ, and many others. Should I remind you of the Mormons, or the Jehovah's Witness?

Now the very foundation of yur religion Christianity hinges on the godship of Jesus, and or his godsonship and or his death on the cross and or his rising from such death after 3 days.rom your Bible I will prove to you that non of it is true. Let me help you; Jesus said that his sign when his disbelievng followers wanted a sign so that they can be sure of his very person as a prophet (never a time they asked him if He was the Creator the Almighty God and he came to earth, The purpose in this case is not important now), was the same exact sign of Jonas, but only that the whale is now the earth! If Jesus was speaking the truth; the since Jonas did not die, and alive before being swallowed, and still alive as he was entering the mouth of the whale, alive when he finally settled in the belly of the whale, alive all the while he was in there, all the three days, alive when he was finally spitted/vomitted out by the whale, then Jesus must have to be alive all through his ordeal; from before being put on the cross, throughout that period, (no wonder blood flowed freely as normal in his body), alive when he was taking limply of the cross, alive throughout the period of incomplete 3 days in the cave and no wonder he was alive as he emerged on Sunday morning, just after dawn!

And his ordeal started off the cross just before dusk on Friday and ended just after dawn on Sunday. How is that 3 days for a Jew? I want you to chalenge me, with good thinking. Oh I forgot, everything defies logic in Christianity, even death or being alive! Lets eave the Muslims and Christians alone in this conversation. We should deal strictly with the Books: Quran and Bible. I will even allow you to seek protection. I will not ask you to bear the problems of the Torah of the Jews or thei Psalm. Afterall, Jesus was enough for you and the Books of the Old Testament is compressed to a single sentence of one line "Love God and your neighbor!"

But Noetic2, if you make the mistake of going to the OT, I will use it liberally to disprove you. I will rest for for since I hope you will be strong enough to take the bait of my challenge. I will not waste any time on you if you are not bold enough to stand by your claims. Seriously!

@Noetic2: If i answr all your concerns or misgivings, with clear verses from the Qur'an, will you then become Muslim, if in addition, I can dissuade you by your Bible, that Jesus or anybody that ever walked the surface of this earth is not GodThe Creator and The Judge of the Day of Judgement?

Answer me man, because you will be doing youeself a lot of good if you are sincere. I am inviting you to Paradise (success) and you want to invite me to Hell (failure). Which one of us wishes the other a lot of good?

I am a muslim, because I do not want to be a Kufar, a disbeliever in One God. So I am not a Christian because it has 3 gods in its godship. I am not a Jew because it has denied some prophets, while the Christian also denied Muhammad (AS). Am not a member of other paganic idolatry religion or ideology because I hate to disobey my Lord. I believe in Allah (God) and I am not a denier of truth like Atheist/agnostic, etc, Hidu, etc, Jews or Christian!

I dislike having three lords and masters. I do know that three masters, each with full independent authorities, will definitely/like to upstage one another or two forming alliance to upstage the other not in the alliance. Do you feel me, man? Seriously.

As an Ijebu boy, I know that spilling of blood, especially of human is idolatry, like in the Alagemo of Ijebu Ode evil rituals. But my Allah has shown Mercy on me that a simple declaration (Shahadah) from my heart in sincerity, with my lips is enough!

Allah has guaranteed me Jannah. While disbelievers are guaranteed Jahannam, if they die on that belief. By the way, the disbelievers are warned about the certainty of Hell. This warning is a Mercy from Allah, since "before armed is to before warned!"

Will you therefore not take admonition, Noetic?

@Gloriuss: If I can point out to you the inconsitencies in the Bible, that will proof that it is not 100% word of God and that, from the time it was penned, starting from after Jesus was raised up by his Lord, all the way to recent time; say 1971, it changes as the world turns, will you become Muslim?

Please have the strength to stand up to my challenge! Thanks. I will show you verses that provide the thoughts of Paul and at least one that is in one Bible and it is not in another!

@Noetic2: You are not a Muslim, so to Muslims you are a Kufar! Now swallow that. Then read the following from Surah Zukhruf:

verses 14 and 15: These two verses tell us that we shall all die, so your hope to meet Jesus in the sky is empty. Also we are informed that no partnership with God/Allah is possible. Those who do set up partnership are completely wrong.

43:14 Muhsin Khan: And verily, to Our Lord we indeed are to return!
43:15 Muhsin Khan: Yet they assign to some of His slaves a share with Him (by pretending that He has children, and considering them as equals or co-partners in worship with Him). Verily, man is indeed a manifest ingrate!

Verses 57 through 68: Son of Mary is a slave, a prophet only.

43:57 Muhsin Khan: And when the son of Maryam (Mary) is quoted as an example [i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) is worshipped like their idols), behold! Your people cry aloud (laugh out at the example).
43:58 Muhsin Khan: And say: "Are our aliha (gods) better or is he ['Iesa (Jesus)]?" They quoted not the above example except for argument. Nay! But they are a quarrelsome people. [(See VV. 21:97-101) - The Quran.]
43:59 Muhsin Khan: He ['Iesa (Jesus)] was not more than a slave. We granted Our Favour to him, and We made him an example to the Children of Israel (i.e. his creation without a father).
43:60 Muhsin Khan: And if it were Our Will, We would have [destroyed you (mankind) all, and] made angels to replace you on the earth. [Tafsir At-Tabari, Vol:25, Page 89].
43:61 Muhsin Khan: And he ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)] shall be a known sign for (the coming of) the Hour (Day of Resurrection) [i.e. 'Iesa's (Jesus) descent on the earth] . Therefore have no doubt concerning it (i.e. the Day of Resurrection). And follow Me (Allah) (i.e. be obedient to Allah and do what He orders you to do, O mankind)! This is the Straight Path (of Islamic Monotheism, leading to Allah and to His Paradise).
43:62 Muhsin Khan: And let not Shaitan (Satan) hinder you (from the right religion, i.e. Islamic Monotheism), Verily, he (Satan) to you is a plain enemy.
43:63 Muhsin Khan: And when 'Iesa (Jesus) came with (Our) clear Proofs, he said: "I have come to you with Al-Hikmah (Prophethood), and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) in which you differ, therefore fear Allah and obey me,
43:64 Muhsin Khan: "Verily, Allah! He is my Lord (God) and your Lord (God). So worship Him (Alone). This is the (only) Straight Path (i.e. Allah's religion of true Islamic Monotheism)."
43:65 Muhsin Khan: But the sects from among themselves differed. So woe to those who do wrong (by ascribing things to 'Iesa (Jesus) that are not true) from the torment of a painful Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection)!
43:66 Muhsin Khan: Do they only wait for the Hour that it shall come upon them suddenly, while they perceive not?
43:67 Muhsin Khan: Friends on that Day will be foes one to another except Al-Muttaqun (pious - see V.2:2).
43:68 Muhsin Khan: (It will be said to the true believers of Islamic Monotheism): My worshippers! No fear shall be on you this Day, nor shall you grieve,

Know that Jesus is no more than an obedient prophet, sent like Moses before him, with a mission. And the core mission was the same for all messengers and prophets: There is One God, your Lord and mine. I am His messenger and or Prophet to you for guidance. So worship Him, and fear Him. Follow me as your leader.

Those who do not follow the messenger and or prophet of the time they live in are disbelievers. Those who ignored Jesus when he began his mission, but instead they stuck with Moses or any other that came before Jesus, even though as they see the signs of his messengership are disbelievers. Thats why the false covenant and salvation that the christians think that the Jews have is never going to be accepted by God of Jesus, in the day of Judgement.

In the same time those of us who are here now and choose to ignore Muhammad, even though we are alive in the reign of his prophetic mission are just disbelievers. No amount of ransome will be accepted from them by God. on that day when Only Allah is the Judge.

@Noetic2: You are not a muslim because you want everything on silver platter, including a Salvation you are not willing to lift a single fnger to have! Come to think about it, you want a hand-out. In america, they call people like that Bummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

But Jesus, in the Bible said that not all those who called me god, will enter heaven. It was also stated that he will say to "spme, if not many", in the day of Judgement that he never knew them. Even as these same people tell him that they used to perform "miracles" in his name!

Will those people enter "heaven" in your own view? They happen by descriptions, above to b exclusively Christians. No muslim calls Jesus god! No muslim says he/she perform miracles in the name of Jesus! The very term "muslim" is iconoclastic to accepting any thing is God, except the Creator, Who is always Alive, Able to do all things and have Knowledge of all things!

If some christians, from the mouth of Biblical Jesus will not enter heaven, where is their destination but hell?

The muslims on the other hand, are simply to believe in God as One whose name is Allah. And for such muslim to simply pray the daily Salah. If he/she is poor and weak, no Zakah, but can receive sadaqah, no fasting if impossible for the preservation of even normal health! Nothing is required except the acceptance of One Single God and prayer. Yet this simple almost undemanding process on the physical body, except firmness in the Soul and in the heart (the flesh that is most essential in the body), is enough to guarantee "the Mercy" of Allah! The Mercy of Allah means reward in paradise, because the sins are overlooked.

Now who is definitely not sure to go to Paradise?

@Negro Ntns: Prohibitions for clapping, whistling etc as the Pagan arabs used to do when they are in the Precinct of Kaaba is right there in either Surat Hajj or Taubah. I almost believe it is in Surah Hajj. Islam remains in the heart of Muslims, inside and outside of Masajid. Now we must know that a true muslim keeps all the injuctions of Quran and Ahadith, as soon as he/she knows, as best as possible!

Do I not shake the hand of a desirable young woman in the masjid, but do it outside masjid or away from the sight of any muslim? I am either a munafiq or ignorant of my role.

On a lighter note; I almost thought you were worshipping Obama, until I saw your pull back that followed.

As I read the argument for the authenticity of the Bible as words of God, I can't imagine it to contain the word of any human being. I may reluctantly accept that God transmitted His messages after Jesus (AS) through man, still to continue the work of Jesus. Or even wierdly, conclude Jesus to be what he didn't say he was while he was on earth.

But, if there is any where on the pages of the (New Testament) Bible that gives the idea that any man has provided his own view, that very evidence has destroyed the thought that it is truly word of God! Maybe partial word of God, but definitely word of man are spilled into it, to provide the wish of man. Or at least to further the intent of man.

As I read the thesis of Dr. James Denison, the first entry of this thread, I can not but observe in the fourth paragraph, the statements of one Paul. It is not just subtle, but directly confirming that the whole entire paragraph is his own words; Please read as follows:

Here are some verses from the Bible that makes it invalid and not the word of GOD but of man;
Paul said: 'Now concerning virgins i have no command from the Lord,, but i give opinion (first letter to the corinthians 7:25).
"Therefore i think ,,,,,,," (1 corinthians 7:26)
"According to my opinon ,,,,,," (1 corinthians 7:40)
"see, i Paul, am telling you ,,,,,," (Paul's letter to the Galathians 5:2)

No one should argue the fact that a man is giving his own view point, when he states that he has no "command" as in his 1 Corinthians 7;25. Or when he states that he "think" as in 1 Corinthians 7: 26. Or when he states that "accrding to my opinion" as in 1 Corinthians 7:40. Or when he states that "I Paul" as in Galathians 5:2.

If these 4 examples do not indict away from being called the "word of God", except some possible explanation is provided to nullify the signs of Paul own direct ideas, without any entity; God, or Jesus the Prophet or Ghost telling him to do so, we do not have the Bible (New Testament) as word of God! Its not even word of Jesus because we see the inprint of Paul, as stated above!

We have not even gone to the Acts which clearly show that none of the things in that Book is from Jesus, ecept what is quoted from the Gospels! If the Bible have been a University Course Textbook, no one will agree with its premise, if the Author says that he is the sole writer. Yet a casual look display the entries of other learned individual. Will the academic community not challenge his claim?

@Gloriuss: « #50 on: Yesterday at 08:57:23 PM »

when i mention "if" it is not because I am unsure, I use it in the context of trying to explain Jesus and the Trinity, e.g "if" X is 5 and Y is 4 then X+Y=9. Sho get??

Unfortunately, you did not even pay attention to your assuredlyness of your own equation. It lacks consistency; 9 is something you are certain about. 5 and 4 in your equation, at least the "if" provided a window that 5 being assumed (doubt is assumption, quantity not yet certainly known) and 4 also assumed not with 100% certainty, 9 is what is sure, because you did not qualify it with the "if", a sign of doubt.

the (trinity) of God is exclusively a christian doctrine, that teaches us about how HE exists. No man can FULLY explain the trinity because it is beyond logic! But what I do know , is what I write down. Now God being God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit is still largely incomprehensable to man but the Bible says

Thank God that some truth (doctrine is exclusively Christians, and Jews have nothing to do with it. I am sure it is unknown to the liberator of the Jews from the Old Testament: Moses), come out, even though the whole idea is ridden with falacies. Can you accept an hypothesis stated and wrestled into your mind by your University professor, who said to you that it is not explainable and defies logic? I remembered when we were told to evaluate an untenured Calculus professor, in the day.

No student would have evaluated him with an opinion that will allow the chair to keep him, if her process of solving math problem is 1+1+1=1, the same conclusion that you provided from your post Jesus portion of the New Testament. It is truly a mystery because it does not fit into mathematical logic or any other.

Yet, we can provide logic for all prophetic miracles! The parting of the sea for the children of Israel is very logical, in the sense that it was a route to show the miracle of bringing the children of Israel to safety on the other side, while perishing the mighty military of Pharaoh, into utter ruin.

Whats the logic for trinity? Can God not handle the affairs of man, without the ghost and Jesus? Is God not capable of forgiving mankind that He created from nothing; a mixture of soil and water? Trinity is totally illogical! Am shock that you accepted it and you have the audacity to continue to present it?

“For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Neither are your ways My ways,” declares the LORD. “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts” (Isaiah 55:8-9).

Remember that Jesus did not mean anything to the people of OT. Look again, at your entry, above. So your quoting Old Testament to defend New Testament, especially when the two do not agree on the subject matter is a futile effort on your part. It would have been better if you stick with part of the Bible that is neither from Moses nor David (AS). So the thought of God, according to the Isiah verse that you quoted indicated that God is Higher d I do not see how He can drag Himself low to become a human being. Got killed while he cried out to himself before he expred! It is not a thing that befit the Magesty of God Almighty the Creator.

So babs trying to crack open why Jesus said this or that will never FULLY be answered by man. I mean if we are to acquire the infinie depth of God, and the infinite mind of God, an omniscient, all-wise Creator, we would all be gods, therefore having NO REASON to serve God or be committed to a faith.

So if we are never able to acquire that infinite quality that God alone have, why should you assume that He will rubbish Himself by the hands of His creations, just because He wants to provide salvation to them? Should the salvation not be so effortless for Him, as the muslim best explain it: no blood, or nothing, except to just seek it with your heart and lips, deeds and actions of obedience?

I remember that there are indication from the Bible that Jesus was a reluctant, truly unwilling person to be hanged! Is that a sign of a willing lamb? And God does not need blood to Willingly forgive His creation, anyway.

I'll give u the website that states all of this as soon as I look it up again! It does make a lot of sense! And Bible passages do support the idea also! ciao!

Yet, God is not the Author of confusion. I am so confused. I am leaning towards the believe that God is not the Author, since the confusion is very profound. We should actually have a thread that is titled; the Bible says this and turns around and says that. I think the material should be limited to the New Testament, only. Between the NT Gospel and the Acts and others there is plenty to serve the purpose.

We already know that OT will definitely disagree with almost all the content of NT. Afterall, it does not believe that Jesus was a prophet. The reason they did not follow him. Sister woman, save your Website.

An apostate from living in Muslim Controlled society, if two conditions are present at the same time:

Lying about Islam, with the intention to discourage others to enter it, or those who are in it to leave it.
When the Apostate were called out, to stop or substantiate their claim(s), they ignored the warning or calls to be honest.

These two aspects, if it happens in any society the people will call for the head of the accused. In Islam, however, there is a trial process, while the secular nonislmic society, may just have a made for tv trial only. Islam calls for truth finding, in all of its issues or grievances.


Islam calls for preservation of life. When Islam as a religion, in its truest process takes a life, the process that lead to the accuse losing his life, is very thorough, and should be conducted in issolation or in secret. Such a person is not deemed as innocent, but a guilty party. The rights of the community as a whole is always more important than that of the individual, especially when it infringes on the rights of the people in that society.

Islam is not the first religious community that have this ruling in its foundation. However islam is the only religion that is true to its original intent, and foundation.

Jews kill people who dare challenge their religious authenticity. At least Jesus was recorded to at least be arrested for blaphamy against the core principle of Judaism that Yahweh/Jehovah (actually Eloi/Allah) does not have son or associate/equal. I concur.

@Davidylan: So many black/african nations in Africa. But the south african blacks and their supporters worked hard to uproot the white Afrikaans apartheid rule. Mandela as jailed for it. Steve Biko died at the prime of his life. The people did not rest till they see the end of evil agenda that denied them their human dignity in the land of their historical heritage.

Will you allow England to take over the land known as Nigeria and disperse her people, presently living there to other people's land in West Africa or Africa as a whole? If you will not have a part of that, then know that the 22 Arab nations, none of it will be acceptable to the Palestinian Arab people. If you will allow the demise of Nigeria, know that I will not and almost all Nigerians will not follow your chioice of the destiny of Nigeria. This is the way the palestinians, in Palestine and outside Palestine feel, too.

You, David do not have the right to tell other people how they should feel about the land of their forefathers; Ibrahim (AS). By the way, Semitic bloodline is not limited to the Israelites/israelis. See, the people who are circumcised, the Arabs are semites without any less right than the Isaelis. Infact, the covenant with Ibrahim, if you say its a covenant, I will say is a command, occurred in the time that Ismail (AS) was the only son of his father.

@Davidylan: God knows that I sincerely love you and admire your strong conviction for cheap salvation that you think you have in Christianity. I am laughing as I wrting this piece. I asked you before to tell me how Islam and who force convert the Ijebu Ode people, the land of your forefathers and that of my mine? I am still waiting for a single response from you.

Now, tell me how did Islam enter Madina, apart from the simple covenant made in the year before Hijra, to support Muhammad (AS) and his movement (the last stage toward completion of Islam (Surah 4). I know you have avoided to respond to Ijebu people conversion. But I will not let you walk away without putting your feet to the fire on Madina!

About Obama's speech: The muslims in the audience should have known that clapping is unIslamic. Having said that, whats wrong in the Jews and their Chrsitian supporters not being the first to recognized the full right of the palestinians to exist in the land of Ibrahim (AS)? Why is it that the Palestinian refugees are refused the right of return to their ancient home(s)? Why is it that The Gaza strip and the West Bank should be so separated by a wider land mass between them, controlled by Israel? Is there a people separated like that in history? While the Zionist zealots within Christianity blindly support Israel the people of Jesus, is there no conscience in Christianity to caution them that "Blessed are the peacemakers?" Thats a verse in the "Bible?"

Shamelessly, Obama said that Jesus is his lord and savior, in past speeches. However, in the story of Isra, as he quoted it from Quran and the Ahadith that explain this very Verse in Surah Bani Israil or Isra (Chapter 18, Verse 1), he said that Moses and Jesus son of Mary and Muhammad (AS) prayed together, to emphasis the importance of Jerusalem.

Now who led the others in that prayer, among the three? If there was a leader, that leader is the true soure of salvation. Apart from his terrible pronounciation of Quranic words, I see only esoteric value with minimum substance in the speech. It was not only the Jews that died in the 2nd WW. There were many africans, and blacks who fought, died or wounded in the European wars! I think they should be recognized, too.

Finally, I wonder if Jesus was an Arab, will the Christians be on the side of the Jews who were recorded in the Bible as the single listerners and rejecters of Jeus mission, and finally responsible for his trial and "the famous crucifixion?" Lets call a spade a spade. It will not pass for a shovel, especially when there is one on hand for comparison.

I have to say uhhhm, like scooby Doo, when that Dog is confused. I am confused about the above explanation of Jesus and Trinity. Sorry incorporated into the Trinity.

I guess your premise started with "if". That shows unsureness of the specific premise. There is a probability of 50/50 in this case. So lets look at the other side, and see what is the condition of God, without Trinity and Jesus and the "standing by, ill defined ghost."

What "if" it is not Incorprated into Trinity? Will God still be God and able to do all things or not?

Babs787, hold on to your hat, because the sister is going to provide a clearer hypothesis, for Trinity and for Independence of God, if there is no Trinity.

My mother was never in Islam, during the lifetime of my father (ra). My father never forced her or harrased her, even though my father should have suggested Islam to her. If he did, my mother didn't take it, and she didnt lose her life. This alone is enough to disprove that "muslims kill their wives if not Muslimas."

My friend's father was the Balogun of Ijebuland before he died (ra). One of his wives, became a muslima when she married him. Then in the marriage or after it, she left Islam. She is still alive, in Lagos. Her children for the man left Islam. Unfortunately, these people when they leave Islam, the do not have the gut to change their names. I have many friends who came to Islam, from other ways of life, and they immediately change their names.

Not that names really matters. But it announces your identity, for people to know who you are. Incidentally, for the persons who hypotheised that parents religion is the only reason a person remains in Islam, I have news for you. My mother had more influence on me, way more than my father. My mother was a christian, up to the time I was in my late 40s. This means I was raised as a child by a christian mother.

Through all of that, I never at any time a christian. I remembered her asking us to knee for morning and evening prayers, the Christian ways. I never at anytime said "Amen", when Jesus name was mentioned. I went to Christian school(s), also. But through all of this, and now that my mother is in her twilight years in her 80s, she became Muslim, without me doing nothing but prayers to Allah to guide her out of "Tagut;disbelief."

I guess this is a miracle in itself, from Allah counted to the record of Miracles under Muhammad's prophethood (in the life of his follower; Muslim Olabowale (Karamallah)). I am now working on people in her bloodlines and unfortunately, those in my father's bloodline who have seen the ease of "disbelief" and left the rigor/demand of "belief": Islam.


And Late M. K. O. Abiola never divorced or killed any of his wives for not being muslim wife.

there is no 5th wife in Islam. The maximum at any single time is 4. But you did not let me know how cursing is part of everyday or even ceremonial/occasional salah.