₦airaland Forum

@$Osisi: He lives in England. He still faces Onitsha? He lives in Houston, Texas. He still ends in Onitsha? He lives in China. Is Onitsha still in play? And my friend, I see you displaying Jesus' dove like quality! Or is the days of humanitarian doctors gone in America? We know that was ended in Nigeria's '73, '74, there!

@$Osisi: I am very committed to Islam. And at the same time, I have extended hand of friendship with olive branch to you. You have never accepted it. You have my phone for over 2 years now, and you never have used it. I guess you hated islam so much that you forgot that no muslim male can be your friend, except those women you think you can introduce the gentle lamb Jesus to!

My friend it is the Quran and not Koran. You aught to know better. And a person is better and more humane if he is a muslim. I often tell you that if you think you are a great person now, you will be a better person when you become Muslima. Zainab is. You and her share at least some Igbo blood.

Finally, how do you figure that Muhammad (AS) massacre unprovoked? In Makka, Islam lived under repression for 13 years until they had to inally leave their beloved city, family people and properties, except the cloth on their "back!" In the Bible, at least the OT, it is still an eye for an eye. Yet Jesus said that the law and the prophets are still relevant. You say they aint! Now tell me, who should I believe, and I have in the Quran that also preach forgivenes, blood money as alternative to eye for an eye. This is human nature woman.



I have to amuse you, and i think I hatethe statement though: THe same you have the choice of lover oand marriage, even though you know that your heart was in love with a Yoruba boy in the days! So look at revenge or avenge or retribution or lack of any like that. Sometimes you feel like nuts, and sometimes you dont. You know the commercial?. No?


And here is your friend Olabowale a totally committed Muslim, hoping that you put on Hijab. Thats my wish. Sue me and Zainab will defend me. She is a good lawyer.

@Sleek29: This is very sleeky that you littering each thread with this garbage, above.

@Sleek29: I asked you about 150 years after the death of Prophet Muhammad (AS) before the first binded Quran was produced, you gaveme all this! I cant read them all. Point me to where yu stated any supportingmaterial about this your 150 years. Abu Bakr was the Kalifah when the Quran was written in a complete and binded Book. Did he rule for 150 years or there was a ruler before him after the death of the Messenger (AS)? Or the Quran was produce for the first time by someone else, but who?

I am tryng to learn abc from you and you are giving complicated material to read. Where is my ABC, first?

5. The Fallacy of Equivocation: If we assume that everyone has the same definition of such words as God, Jesus, revelation, inspiration, prophet, miracle, etc., we are committing a very simple logical fallacy.
#1 When a Muslim says, "Christians and Muslims worship the same God," he is committing the fallacy of equivocation. While Christians worship the Triune God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, Muslims worship a Unitarian deity. Obviously, they are worshipping different Gods.
#2 When a Muslim says, "We believe in Jesus too," he is committing the fallacy of equivocation. The "Jesus" of the Qur'an is not the Jesus of the Bible. Islam preaches "another Jesus" (II Cor. 11:4). The Jesus of the Bible is God the Son who died on the cross for our sins. But the "Jesus" of the Qur'an is not God the Son and he did not die on the cross for our sins. Thus it is erroneous for Muslims to tell Christians that they believe in Jesus too.

This is the reason I am not in the Muslim/Christian/Jewish dialogue club. The Jesus of the Bible is not the same as the Isa bin Mariam of Islam. Now compare your jesus god or son of god and dead jesus to Islam's position. You will see where we are different and no convergence at all. Please compare your condition of God to that of the Jews. There is no common ground that is significant, yet you share the same book; Bible or you borrow their part which you do not honor!


The believe that the Muslim have in Isa bin Mariam is exactly what he wishes people have of him. Your idolization of him, will be a detriment to your salvation starting at the point of deat. Oh and none of you will escape death!

Finally, you can call a person all the title you want or lack of his true identity, that will not change him! A slave of God is every human being. Wvery prophet. And the miracles of Musa were more and very significant at least as that of Jesus! Yet he was not God or "begotten" son or any son. Everyone knows that God has no need for a son, or daughter or both!

#5 The present meaning of a word is irrelevant to what it meant in ancient times. The word "Allah" is a good example. When confronted by the historical evidence that the word was used by pagan Arabs in pre-Islamic times to refer to a high god who was married to the sun-goddess and had three daughters, some Muslims will quote dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc. to prove (sic) that "Allah means God." They are thus using modern definitions to define what the word meant over a thousand years ago! What "Allah" means now has no bearing on what it meant before Muhammad.

Before Christianity arrived in English, I am going to go on a limb that the word "God"existed among them. But the word "Jesus" did not exist. So was the word "Holy Ghost/spirit," among them, even though he Jews were already living in England!

What was the word "God" standing for at that time? Did it mean theGod of the Jews? Now then, since the Jews do not believe that Jesus is anything and definitely not God, is that word now change in meaning to the Jews or the English? What about the English Muslims?


I am a yoruba man, Eledumare wasa a word meaning God the Creator before Christianity, Islam. It still means the same now that islam and Christianity have eaten up the society witha few animist left. The animist still use the same word to day, so do the Muslim and the Christians as well. Is there a meaning to each of these people the same exact word; Eledumare?

Sometimes the way the christian argue is sickening! And the Alawo or Oloya or Olrisha who says that Eledumare is the father or the friend of his idol will now force the Muslim to abandone the usage of that word when he is talking to another Yoruba Muslim? Maybe the Yoruba Christians dont use the word Eledumare to mean God the Creator, anymore? Ngbo Funmi and iwo no, Toyin! Eyin omode yi edamilowun, abi. LOL. Toyin o mo pee mo mo oruko owun.


Te idol worshippers saying Allah has 3 daughters, married have been refurted by Surah 112! And tere are other parts of the Quran that refuted it. This is why they are pagans. This is why the muslims say that Christianity is paganism, too.

#4 Some Muslims argue that the Qur'an is the Word of God because it contains some historically or scientifically accurate statements. This argument is irrelevant. Just because a book is correct on some historical or scientific point does not mean it is inspired. You cannot take the attributes of a part and apply it to the whole. A book can be a mixture of true and false statements. Thus it is a logical fallacy to argue that the entire Qur'an is true if it makes one true statement.
When a Muslim argues that history or science "proves" the Qur'an, this actually means that he is acknowledging that history and science can likewise refute the Qur'an. If the Qur'an contains just one historical error or one scientific error, then the Qur'an is not the Word of God. Verification and falsification go hand in hand.

However the Quran scientifical statement, even though it is not a book of science have not be proven. Whatever is not settled upon by scientific knowledge today, will in the future be settled upon and agreed by the scientific community of the coming generations, which I will argue must be more advanced compared to this present time!


But you can only argue against the muslims and indeed the Quran, if all of a sudden you discovered that what the Quran said and every knowledge has disproved it! For example, lat just say we now find the earth to be square, or some other shape but definitely not a sphere or circle like. Thats when you have an argument.

If you argue with an on going scientific process without a full and complete conclusion to try to discredit the Quran, you have displayed impatience and lack of good processing.

c. The Muslim by using this argument is actually admitting that the Qur'an was not "sent down" but fabricated from pagan sources. This means he has become an unbeliever (Surah 25:4-6).

This guy must be a man who jumps to conclusion, without any logical reason! Again, every animal eats and excretes #s 1 and 2! When humans do it are they animals like swine, or horse, or donkey, etc which do the same exact things?

Man, you are tripping.

This argument is erroneous for several reasons.
a. It is a false analogy to parallel the pagan origins of the rites commanded in the Qur'an with the present day holidays nowhere commanded in the Bible. What some modern day Christians do on Dec. 25th has no logical bearing on what the Qur'an commands Muslims to do (eg. the Pilgrimage, the Fast, etc.).
b. It is irrelevant that some Christians choose to celebrate the birth of Christ. Since the Bible nowhere commands it, it is a matter of personal freedom. But Muslims are commanded in the Qur'an to believe and practice things many things which came from the paganism of that day.

So if an evil person slaughters a cow and left it on an alter of his god, and you slaughter a cow at the same time and feed people by it, you are blamed for your act, because you slaughter at the same time as an evil man? Are your deeds the same, having the same purpose, even though the act is similar?

For example while the Hajj of the pagans were done in nudity, clapping, whistling, etc, that of the muslim is different. I have to ask just because an evil man drives a car, does it mean that everyone who drives has the same evil purpose?

#3 When confronted with the pagan origins of the Qur'an, some Muslims defend the Qur'an by answering,

"But Christians celebrate Christmas and it was originally a pagan holiday! Thus both Muslims and Christians get their rites from the pagans."

As above, you have argued that evil people can speak the truth. The Pagan arabs were evil, but they have their limitations knowing that there is one God, even though as they had 360 gods that they go through to Him. They never built the Kaaba with any funds that had evil source or interest in their acquistion of it.

Finally, the rites that the Pagans observed which was preserved by the Muslims, were the only times the evil pagans spoke and did things that were true. Look, hajj was observed by Ibrahim and his son, Ismail (AS). Were they also pagans of arabs because there was no idol in the kaaba during their time!


I will not even respond to the Christian bit, except that I will like to see where Mary the mother of Jesus observed his irt on December 25? Or where Jesus himself obderved this? Or where the disciles observed it?

#2 When Muslims attack the character and motives of anyone who criticizes Islam, they are using irrelevant arguments. The character of someone is no indication of whether he is telling you the truth. Good people can lie and evil people can tell the truth. Thus whenever a Muslim uses slurs such as "mean," "dishonest," "racist," "liar," "deceptive," etc., he is not only committing a logical fallacy but also revealing that he cannot intellectually defend his beliefs.

An evil person can also lie and often not tell the truth. This is the case with you christians when it comes to religion. Compare your opinion about Jesus being God to what the Jews who are your holders of salvation!

b. Logically, it is irrelevant whether the text of the Qur'an has been preserved because preservation does not logically imply inspiration. A book can be perfectly copied without implying its inspiration.

But what is written down through God's Inpiration on the Writer, should not be changing. Right? Look at your Bible and compare it to the Quran and tell me which one is changing? The one that is changing is the one that is not Inspired by God! I remember the Bible I used in High School, pre 1970. It was different from what the fresh crop that came in in 1971 was given. We compared it then, but since I was not a cHristian, it did not matter.

#1 Some Muslims argue, "The Qur'an is the Word of God because the text of the Qur'an has been preserved perfectly." This argument is erroneous for two reasons:
a. Factually, the text of the Qur'an has not been preserved perfectly. The text has additions, deletions, conflicting manuscripts, and variant readings like any other ancient writing.

where is the addition? Where is the delection? Where is the conflicting manuscript? The fact that what is abrogated remains in the initial oral recitation and was well known, cancels out the addition and deletion? To say addition means that after the original, something else was added. You can not prove that happened. Same case will be used fro deletion.

And as for manuscript, if a lecture is delivered to 100 students, some will take notes that will address various part of it, in different degrees. However it will be safe to say that maybe 5 of the students will have taking complete notes covering every part of the lecture. But definitely it is completely safe to say that when w=you combine the notes of all the 100 students together, you will have the complete lecture. This is the case with the Quran. So your many manuscripts makes no sense.

But this manuscripts are in pure arabic language. This is not the case with the Bible where what you have now are the most anscient manuscript, which are not in the language of any prophet but in greek or latin, and many centuries after the fact! You see why I said that your intention was to rubbish the Quran, in the same way that the Bible is?

Who is now trying to copy and argue unintelligently.

Whenever a Muslim responds to a Christian attack on the Qur'an, Muhammad, or Allah by flipping the argument around and applying it to the Bible, Jesus or the Trinity as if Islam and Christianity either stand or fall together, he is guilty of the fallacy of false analogy. Islam can be false and Christianity be true at the same time

The Bible already fell. You are just arguing as a christian trying to spill over the Quran, too. It will be impossible for you to achieve. Flipping the argument aroundshows that we know that you are vunerable, hence you are finding a way to insult the Quran. If a man carries a none working phone and he is accusing a man whose phone was just completing his last call as a person who can't make any phone call. It is reasonalbe for this man to ask the one making such erronous statement to simply use his phone for everyone to see! Is that not a reasonable presentation, if your mind is sound?

But of course you nare christian. I was hoping you will be human, for a change. And not be so blind in your faith.

"If you are right, then you must also reject your biblical prophets for doing wicked things as well."

What he is really saying is, "If you reject my prophet, then you must reject your prophets as well. If Muhammad was a false prophet, then your prophets are false as well."
The root problem is that the Muslim concept of prophethood is not the same as the Christian concept of prophethood. We teach that prophets sin like anyone else. Thus while Islam is refuted by the sins of Muhammad, Christianity is not jeopardized at all. The Muslim is guilty of setting up a "false analogy."

So the one who is tempted by the devil is not a sinner? The one who cursed an innocent tree to die is not a sinner? The one who make spirits/genies go into hard of pigs is not a sinner? The one who called his follwers fools and evil generation is not a sinner? What is the definition of a sin then?


Finally, if Jesus sinned by not being forgiven, is he still god? I remember the story of him telling the thief on his right about him going to paradise. Yet on his left he did not forgive the one there, even though he should have known that the guy was under duress of what is happening to him. What about him never forgiving his man, Judas Iscariot, who did exactly as he wished? By the way the Jews still bear Judas till this day! How about that?

#2 Because a false analogy is drawn between Islam and Christianity, some Muslims think that any argument which refutes the Qur'an will likewise refute the Bible; any argument which refutes Muhammad will also refute Jesus Christ, etc,
      #3 For example, many Muslims claim that Muhammad and all prophets were sinless. They even deny that Abraham was an idol worshipper. Thus when a Christian points out all the wicked things that Muhammad did (mass murder, child abuse, lying, etc.), the Muslims will say,

   "If you are right, then you must also reject your biblical prophets for doing wicked things as well."

If two people claimed that they are Doctors of Medicine, specializing in Neurology or even surgeons, we should expect some minimally common knowledge they both will share of the nervous system, brain and the vertebral column. But they do not necessarily have to go to the same University. This is the case with Bible and Quran. The Universities are different, but they should both have common and equal knowledge and information. The Quran have more direct and precise knowledge that we do not find in the Bible. In addition the Bible argues with itself between OT and NT, and even within verses opposing each other in the same Testament; NT; God is One and Jesus is a servant, prophet, son of man, worshpper of God. Yet another verse says no, he is God in the flesh. While still another says he is in God and God s in him, hence he is One with God. But the same verse or another continues this logic where he is in the disciples and the disciples are in him, yet arent these disciples Gods, too or by inference One God with Jesus and God and Holy Ghost? LOL. Sorry this is serious, but in the tradition of $Osisi, this is hilarious and deserves my 32!


It is very shameful that you call Abraham an idol worshipper! The man who destroyed idols, and you people always want to trace your religious heritage to him? Wow. A complete diffrenct position is what Islam holds; He was not a Jew, nor a Christian but a beliver in One single God and chose no partnership with his  LOrd!


@Noetics2" Shut up, you dont know how too argue, except the catch phrase that you got stuck in your head! Am tired of your ignorance. This is my last look at you.

3. False Analogy: Comparing two things as if they are parallel when they are not really the same at all.
Examples:
#1 Many Muslims erroneously assume that Muslims and Christians share the same concepts of God, revelation, inspiration, textual preservation, the Bible, prophethood, biblical history, conversion, etc,

What webste did you copy this from? They must be liars and you must be a sucker! I have a bridge in brooklyn that I need to sell. Can I send you the invoice man since you are this gullible? Muslims do not share Bible with you. I said above, and please go back and read: Bible is not a revealed Book of Allah! How then do we share it with you? There is nothing that is specific to Judaism or Christianity that we share.

I am a human being so sharing human history with you does not mean that when i give my account and you give your own account, you or I have copied from each other. Either one of us is correct or both of us are wrong. If we are not exactly sayong the same thing, we both can not be correct! THis is the case with Bible; Judaism and Christianity versus Quran and Islam. Ours is from Allah, while your is inspirations to many men/writers from Yahweh, Jehovah or Eloi!

2. Arguing in a circle: If you have already assumed in your premise what you are going to state in your conclusion, then you have ended where you began and proven nothing.

Circle If you end where you began, you got nowhere.

Examples:
#1 Proving Allah by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Allah.
#2 Proving Muhammad by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Muhammad.
#3 Proving Islam by the Qur'an and then proving the Qur'an by Islam.

Where o you proof Yahweh/ Jehovah or Eloi, etc except by the Bible? Where do you proof that Jesus is god, except from the Bible, sorry to my Israelite friends, the NT part? Where do you proof Judaism and Christianity, except by the Bible? You are guilty of the same accusation. Or you don't want us to be direct like that? Funny man.

Since Islam came along many centuries after Christianity, Islam has the burden of proof and not Christianity. The Bible tests and judges the Qur'an. When the Bible and the Qur'an contradict each other, the Bible must logically be given first place as the older authority. The Qur'an is in error until it proves itself.
Some Muslims violate the principle of historical precedent by asserting that Islam does not have the burden of proof and that the Qur'an judges the Bible.

While you will not be able to argue for NT against OT, the Quran states very clearly that Bible is not a revealed Book, and it is Torah, Sabur, Injil that was revealed to specific prophet (AS)! Quran says that the Bible is corrupt and unprotected because it argues against itself. The OT is there before NT yet NT argues with OT! The laws of OT is turned upside down by just love God and neighbor short sentence! Thats tacky.

Quran says that God is One, Complete, no partnership, no father and no children and nothing like HIM! Whatever your heart can conjure up, is not God, His shape, etc. Yet everyone depends on Him while He depends on no one. He has sets of laws and commands and only He can give Mercy and prevent you from destructions by His every protection, Mercy, Forgiveness and Power. He has all knowledge and never dies. Are these enough or you still want more?

Allah says that Mary and her son Jesus are humans, and don't you see how they do things that are humans? Eat, drink, sleep, tired and needy? Where is your confusion, manThink hard.

@Dankol: Common Logical Fallacies Made By Muslims « on: June 09, 2009, 11:52 AM »

Christians must be prepared to answer the typical objections made against the Gospel. Most of the objections are based on simple logical fallacies. The following is a list of some of the most common fallacies used by Muslims.
Note: The average Muslim does not know that his arguments are logically erroneous. He is sincere in his beliefs. Thus you must be patient and kind in sharing with him why his arguments are invalid.

1. The Fallacy of False Assumptions: In logic as well as in law, "historical precedent" means that the burden of proof rests on those who set forth new theories and not on those whose ideas have already been verified. The old tests the new. The already established authority judges any new claims to authority.

Deal with this and explain the Jews and Christianity. Now tell us about how you can explain the NT over the OT?

@Sleek29: Abu Bakr became the Kalifah 150 years after the death of the prophet (AS)? I didn't know that. Thanks for that valuable information man. How long then before Aisha, the wife of the prophet and who is also the daughter of Abu Bakr died, after her father? Or he survived her? I need some knowledge from you guy.

Iwo yi ma ya ode o. Are you blind to the part of my saying no woman deserves to be raped in any and all conditions? Oo to kobo o si lenu e.

If you are this dishonest, what shall we expect from you?

Now tell us, if a man comes to you and said that he raped a woman 2 yeas ago and he never felt good about it. He realised now that it is a wrong thing which should never ave happened. He now lives in Seychelles, while the incident happened in Nigeria. e wants you to advise him how he can resole this burning agony in his heart. What will be your advise, since you can't tell him o turn himself in to Seychelles authority who have no jursidiction on the case anyhow?

Furter, he is now a man who is changed, the very reason he is seeking some wsdom from you. He has a family now, with a good job or a lucrative career and can afford some times to do good and finance some community projects. What will be your answer, stella quality man without any blemish?


I hope you have some wisdom in you, because again, you will be disappointing me.

@JJYOU: Panhandlers and homeless people are many in America. They are 99% christians. Thats only in America. Ther untouchables of India are not muslims. There are a lot of legally blind people in america; almost all of them will check their forms as Christians. Your argument is weak man. Sight and lack of it has nothing to do with your religion. And if it does, then those who should be with full sight (20/20 vision) should be muslims while all of you are blind.

But of coursethe muslim heart should see while your is definitely blind.

I asked that dexmond answer with clarity, and give good opinion or guess. He can out with the biggest confusion i have ever read. Kings established Kingdoms, and throne or court to rule from. Jesus did not do any of those. Infact he denied being called a king on earth! He aught to have established his governance by himself, not asking somebody else to do it for him. Thats cop out!

He prayed in Temples or synagogues . He should have at least mentioned church while he was praying in a private home. People could have been able to use that proivate occasion as an argument for a church. Well since there was nothing like that, we see that church is another man made after Jesus argument. No validity to it, at all.


Am sure somebody is going to say; another senseless post or something of that sort, instead of first tinking it through and stop being infantile in behavior! Infants even recognize mother and come to that truth than go to the prettiest starnger who at sight does not offer the security of mother!

@dexmond: even though i am not the one to discriminate between prophets of Allah,He allah raised some over the other. Muhammad is the best of them. They followed him in prayer as i follow an imam! I state without any reservation in my heart, Muhammad is greater than his fellow prophet in the Sight of Allah, His Angels and those who believe! If John could not untie the sandals of his cousin Jesus, even though he bermitva(ed) him, thn definitely, Jesus can not untie the sandals of Muhammad (AS) who came as the another comforter!

Arabic word Ahmad is consult, the calmer which means comforter! But in all materials you failed to answer my question: what percentage of the Jews, the Children of israel are members of that government; the church? I think it is almost zero, since they are still in the old government established by the more successful with his people,prophet Moses!

Another prophesy unfulfilled by your god! Yet we have human prophets who dominate and more successful with their people than him. Moses clearly was sent to the children of Israel and they are still with him, inspite of the best effort of the human god according to your proposition. If we consider Muhammad being sent to the Arabs, alone, about 85% of them followed him now, after 1400 years. Jesus had less than 1% of the children of israel even after 2000 years!


If we take Muhammad to be sent to the whole world, 20% of the worldpopulation are following him now, yet the Children of Israel up to now have less than 1% following Jesus. A trying to make you see how he failed as a prophet of the children of israel, yet you called him god!


Who should know god between you gentile and the Jewish people who called themselves, lords, gods, children of god? Obviously your african heart replace your african idol with another from the jewish race. Sorry ma. This truth am sure is very bitter and ver hard to swallow.

@Eina: what about crusades, the inquisitions, the crystalnoid, the 2 world wars? Should we count any of them for Christianity? If islam embraces violent, what should we call this for Church goers?

And interestingly, Christianity was supposed to be part of the religion of the children of Israel; so we go to the old testament to see if there was any violence! Haa! Too many. What shall we say about that, or is the Old testament part of the Bible not relevant, any more? Who gave you the idea of its irrelevancy?

I think when you throw stones, you should be mindful that you are actually hauling boulders at your glass house with frontend loaders or wrecking ball machinery!

The violence in Islam is a primary schl stuff, if we consider your Christian Ph. D. material presentation of violence! Don't be fooled by the impossible to do window dressing turning the other cheek. The rule of the Christian day is the same as whats in the OT; an eye for an eye. And thats the least. In most cases, we see a life for just a single prick of the skin. Look at the owners of materials that can destroy the world in one shot many times over; America, England, France, Canada, and then their big Uncle the Israelites. Stop your lies, man. I dislike dishonest people. Are you in England too? I think they teach you blindness over there with a big dose of unrealness!

@dankol: I remember reading something written by a christian were he was defending the Bible, that the muslims always want it to conform to the same rules as the Quran. I think the muslims are correct, because what is literal should not be twisted to mean something else, in a subject manner to justify other than what it means! If I say John comes to school, it should not be taking that it was Rachael was the only pupil that attended school lecture. I was talking about John and I did not mean Rachael.

A fellow who says he is a Doctor must be able to demostrate his credentials, but does not mean that he must have attended Harvard Medical School. There are other schools around the world where Medical persons can train for their intended profession.

Now I am responding to your above three issues which I think just as I hold in others that I will not address you are wrong or intentionally misleading in your effort to drag down the Quran to the same level as the Bible: Issue of Qibla; there is no time that Salah was made compulsory until the muslims arrived in Madina. Hence, their voluntary Salah prior to Hijrah to Madina used Kaaba as their "choice of Qibla" since it is the only centralized and unifying structure that they know as arabs, resident of Makka and a community around its precinct. The used Jerusalem as Qiblah of choice, again in Madina where there is a large population of another form of monotheist group, the Jews! The very first time that a named Qiblah was ordained is when the commandment came in Salah to abandone Jerusalem and turn officially to Kaaba located in Makka! If you have anything to support your vague statement, please refine it and present it for the muslims to read. We aught to know about Qiblah than you. No?




And as for inheritance: None of the two surah vererses that you presented gave us anything about what "a portion meant, for man and also for women!" If I say a house you you and another house for your uncle, I hope you do not think that it will be exactly the same type of homes? If you consider the fact that your uncle will have his wife and children living in hs own house, while you a young bachelor wil live in yours alone. Your uncle's home may be a mansion while yours is jusst a 4 bedroonm home! Can you tell me that your space and your uncle, as per individual needs will be exactly the same?

Now then, it was another verse 4;11 that explain what "a portion means for man" and what a "portion" meanas for woman. Please be honest when you write. Or at least read the Qran before you copy what your ignorant Christian leaders write for you to present to us. We know better.



And when a man dies, he was spposed to provide 1 year provison for his widow. But was also said about the widow that she can leave for a legal marriage within the 1 year, even though she has 1 year provison available to her. But the minimum time that she must stay before accepting any proposal of marriage for those who may wish to marry her is 4 months and 10 days. This period is still under 1 year which she already have provison avaible for. This provison ion will allow her to not jump into the first proposal because of fear of poverty. Also the men are warned not to eagerly approach her, until the minimum 4 months and 10 days, forcing her hand into an emotional romamtnticconnection before its time.


I have other issues with you, but I don't have the time. Your argument of abrogation is very weak; abrogation for example is replacing what is good with what is better. Let me use alcoholic consumption as an example; Initially it was accepted. Then there is a caution abut it especially when you will still be impaired in Salah. thhen it was completely forbidden. That process is abrogation, wheening a person gradually from bad things until the heart can be strong enough to completely rejects it.


Night prayer is a voluntary prayer. It was not made compulsory like the 5 daily salah. Prophet Muhammad (AS) used to make that salah all night long. Then Allah showed Mercy by telling him to make half or even less! Remember I said it is voluntary and not obligatory. But even if it was obligatory, the abrogation of full night to half or even less of the nigt is a better deal. A way of Mercy!


And you said something about the verse of stoning. I do not know that verse. Could you show us the verse? I know that this commandment was from Hadith. Not from Quran, because I have not seen it before. Rightfully so that a man or woman who is guilty of this lewd behavior should suffer this fate, since there is no reason theat they should be involved in a ot of marriage sex!


And finally before I leave this thread, at the time that the Prophet made Hajj, he was joined by 100,000 on that pilgrimage. Amongst these multitude of people there must be few hundreds who memoried everything. Definitely Muhammad memorized everything. A lot more knew almost all. Alot even more knew less. But everyone knew some part, which there were other who knew that part, too. Is it your opinion then that nop one knew the Verse, exept Zaid thabit? You must be kidding me, when Ali Abitalib was yet still alive, and so were the fore Abdullahs: Bin Abbass, Bin Ummar, Bin Mas'ud, and there was still anoter!


The muslims were means of securing and assuring the validity of what every single ayah was supposed to be. Finally, from the time that the bits of Quran was first released, whatever it was from one Ramamdan to anoter, in those 23 years of revelation, that was the Quran. Every year Muhammad will recite it, in the month of Ramadan to Jibril, who comes for this purpose. Jibril will also recite it to Muhammad who was there for this purpose. The last year of Muhammad alive, that ramadan, they recited it twice to each other. The prophet (AS) remarked to his companion that that Ramadan was different because it was 2 times the recitation. Now the same way that Muhammad was not sure that he will die before the next Ramadan, even though he sensed that the double recitation was unusual, neither he nor Jibril knew the reason. Neither of them knew the time of the hour, also. So was the case of Jesus! He did not know the time of the hour. I guess, Jesus, Muhammad and Jibril did not know, and hence lack complete knowledge!


Is this man Jesus qualifies then to be a God, dankol? Sorry. Am tired.

@dexmondL Which part of the 2 verses of Isiah came to past, completely without any hickup? Did he have a government over the Children of Israel, or have what you call everlasting? What part of governance was on his shoulder; did e give them a law to abide by, judge by etc?

Why would he be talking about another counsellor, if he was the only counsellor? What is the nature of his counsellorship versus the another he spoke about to come?

If Isiah was even true about taking about the coming of Jesus, hence he is greater than Isiah, then the another counsellor must be greater than Jesus, because Jesus did not fail to talk about his coming, before he was lifted up! Who is this another Counsellor, wonderful, I will dare say?

I am waiting for your honest answer or at least guess or opinion, if you know.

@Congoshine: Would it be safe to say that if a nonmuslim wishes to get a job from the corporate world of the muslims, he and she must be able to conform to that world? Eg wearing Jilbab and joining the daily Salah, fasting because of what the corporate bosses also do it?

A muslim igbo lawyer works the UN, and she wears hijab and travels all over the world. Allah wills a job for whosoever He wills it for. He is the Controller of the hearts of those who hire the applicants. He is altimately the Employer of all employees, including the "temprary" owners!

And if you are naked and the job calls for exactly what you wear, if its not yours you will not get it. This case is not uncommon. Look around and see how many people who are looking for wotk. Most of them are naked, according to Islamic code of dressing.

There is a saying: If you have no shame, do what you want! So many people have no shame and deficient of morality. They do what they want. Everything goes, always, in their case. No wonder you will see them fighting every rules of morality.

Its not in every case that you can have the step #4, the return of right. Such a case is the sex by force! May Allah protect us from such an involvement/trial.

I am not a scholar, but I think doing works and financial contributions, even to the victim may be a way out of this. You can not take back the sexual disconduct. The best thing is to avoid such a failing, ever! No woman deserves to be raped or molested. There is no condition that calls for such a thing. As you have said before, it is ignorance, out of faith.


Ignorance and out of faith are the conditions to be avoided. May Allah protects us from them. Amin.


However, it is my opinion that one can know when a repentance is accepted by the fact that you dislike and hate the wrong that you used to commit. So much so that you avoid it and always aware of its sinfulness.

Pat is not important in the community of the muslims, men and women. So his words or complaints is like me doing same about your home; it will be disregarded. Having no rael effect.

Huxley2, is mrs. under Burka man or what? The woman does not have to wear anything under the burka, you know. My wife does not wear Burka, but if she wants to, I would not stop her! I hate nudity now. I dont want any woman showing her bad boys. And thats what you see if you ply the street of any town USA in the summer. England is not diffrent anyway. Are you one of those people who like the family Jewels to be on display, even if you have nothing to do with them?


Ol boy, na wah for you oh.