₦airaland Forum

Obama just finish his speech in Cairo University. He mentioned Isra of Muhammad (AS). He said that Muhammad and Jesus and Moses (AS) all prayed together in Jerusalem during the Isra. I wonder how this is possible, unless it is a miracle? Yet Muahmmad continued on to heavens and returned to earth.

A person who is doubtful about this miracle should read Surah Najm (Star; Chapter 53) which many of its verses (Verses 12 - 18) talk about this nightly journey.

53:12
Muhsin Khan: Will you then dispute with him (Muhammad SAW) about what he saw [during the Mi'raj: (Ascent of the Prophet SAW over the seven heavens)].

53:13
Muhsin Khan: And indeed he (Muhammad SAW) saw him [Jibrael (Gabriel)] at a second descent (i.e. another time).

53:14
Muhsin Khan: Near Sidrat-ul-Muntaha [lote-tree of the utmost boundary (beyond which none can pass)],

53:15
Muhsin Khan: Near it is the Paradise of Abode.

53:16
Muhsin Khan: When that covered the lote-tree which did cover it!

53:17
Muhsin Khan: The sight (of Prophet Muhammad SAW) turned not aside (right or left), nor it transgressed beyond (the) limit (ordained for it).

53:18
Muhsin Khan: Indeed he (Muhammad SAW) did see, of the Greatest Signs, of his Lord (Allah).


Finally, the clefting of the moon should be read in Surah Qamar (Moon; Chapter 54). Verses 1 and 2 are enough. Below are the words:

54:1
Muhsin Khan: The Hour has drawn near, and the moon has been cleft asunder (the people of Makkah requested Prophet Muhammad SAW to show them a miracle, so he showed them the splitting of the moon).

54:2
Muhsin Khan: And if they see a sign, they turn away, and say: "This is continuous magic."

@Todak: Your mentioning to atheist Horus, the likes of Ogun, buhdahh etc, tells me that you do not even truly believe your religion is the only true religion.

@Todak: You asked why is it that Jesus that is coming back and not Muhammad? My answer to you is that thats how their Lord God Almighty Allah Wills it. He willed that Jesus came before Muhammad, but after all other Messengers and Prophets before him. He willed that the work of Jesus is not complete, yet. Therefore He will return him to finish his work.

However when he comes, he wll not have anything to do with Christianity. A foreign religion it is to him, anyway. Jesus knew nothing about it. Finally, there will be an end, to his life, for the very first time. Death will occur to him. Thats after he has killed the Antichrist (see Jesus will fight at the appropriate time. Every prophet does/did), break the cross which you attach to his noble name, and he will kill the pigs.

Now Muhammad (AS) will not come back, in the same way that all the others; Moses who God spoke with, directly and many times, Noah who Allah ended people on his account with flood, Ibrahim who Allah calls His Personal Friend, etc. These Messengers and Prophets (AS) finished their assignments. I do not deny this fact. I doubt if you dispute it, either. Again, since Jesus did not finish his duties, including dying, the thing that must happen to every human, no wonder his Lord, Allah shall bring him back to run the course to the end. By the way, when Jesus dies, there will still be Satan (a genie) alive and all the Angles will still be alive. After all mankind are dead, Allah will make Angel of death takes the life of Satan, and all Angels and even the ones who carry the throne!

Then Allah Subhanna wa Taala will ask (even though He knows) Angel of death (malaika maut), who is remaining among creations? He will answer his Lord; only me oh my Lord. Allah will tell him to take his own very life. Angel of death will die.

Allah will ask; who is alive? Allah will answer: I AM. This scenerio of Allah being the Only One Alive, is in the Qur'an in Surah Rahman.


If I wanna take you to task, I will simply ask you; why was it not Jesus that was the first man, why did God have to create (Adam) without taking a single authoritity from Jesus? Why was it not Jesus that created all things, including God and the Angels (Holy spirit; Ruuh Qudus; Angel Gabriel)? Why was it not Jesus who came in as Eve the first woman? He should have been able to do all things, at all time and all at the same time? Why was Jesus not the only Messenger or Prophet sent to mankind? Why Adam,I dris (Enoch), Noah, Ibrahim, Lut, and others; all the way to Moses and beyond to John who have the responsibility of Baptising him?

I wonder who is higher, the one who baptised or the one who was baptised? I asked a Jewish associate if they have baptism (even though I know he will say no)? He said they have bamitva at the age of 13! Go check it out on the web, since Nigeria does not have a Jewish community.

@Todak: A long time ago, the Liberty Stadium was the first, the only and national showcase of sport arena in Nigeria. I remember when WNTV was also the best in Nigeria, indeed the whole of Africa. At that time, this TV station was called "first in Africa" when they begin each daily transmission.In those days it wasn't 24 hours a day, but it started in the evening!

Today, Liberty Stadium is a relic of its old self. I doubt if any sporting event is held there, this days. Someday, maybe the Liberty Stadium will not even exist. I hope it is so. Now, a johnnie comes lately in that future day, say 100 years from now, in Ibadan, may actually denies that the stadium never, ever stood anywhere in Nigeria. Such a person will not even believe it, even if he were taking to the very place where the cornerstone of the foundation was laid.

Now, there use to be a time that authentic and unadulterated Torah existed (the time that Moses was alive is part of that period, for sure), and for Psalm (the time that Prophet and King David was alive), and for Gospel (for sure, before Jesus was raised up).

Now, go get a Torah just before Moses (AS) died. Then a Psalm just before David (AS) died. And Gospel just before Jesus (AS) was raised up to heaven. Get those and that will be the true uncorrupted Books. I thereby advice you, if you can find them, compare each to the part that shares name with it, in your Bible. I am sure that you will see the true Books and then you have your corrupted Books containing countless (versions).


Now, Jerusalem is neither a Christian city, nor was it empty without inhabitants before the arrival of Prophet Ibrahim (AS) to the city. I don't know what you are saying about Jerusalem. Look around, the most important buildings in that city is a mosque. I like to say that Al Aqsa is more important than Dome of the Rock Masjid. The Dome of the Rock has a rock that remains levitated and the hand print of Muhammad (AS) remains on it. I wonder if there is a prophet (AS) who left something as distinctly as clear as that, in Jerusalem? I am not talking about what some persons are just assuming. But the real McCoy. is there any? I wanna know.

@Horus: Babs 787 is not christian but muslim. Just the same way a man who lived say 500 years ago, would say that it will be impossible for man to get to the moon, and back. It is the same way, a man like you who has no believe in the existence of God, which means that your mind in a spiritual sense, is like the man used to illustrate mankind current ability, above.

Just like it is possible that the space shuttle can travel very far, and when needed, on a clockwork, return to home base. The Prophet of God Almighty, Jesus son of Mary, was carried to heaven, alive and he will return, when it is the time decided by God. The reason you find it impossible is your lack of knowledge. Not the knowledge that you acquire in university classroom. The knowledge that feeds the soul and affects the heart.

I now want to shock you; Muhammad (AS) who came after Jesus was lifted up, in a part of a single night was transported from Makka to Jerusalem and then lifted up to heavens. He then returned via the same route to his home. All of the to and fro, took just part of a single Night! Don;t worry, I pray you are already dead when Jesus returns. I am sure you don't mind me saying that?

My prayer is that am dead long time, too. Those who are alive will have to deal with the trial of accepting Jesus return and the presence of the "magician; a fake miracle worker" anti-christ, the left eyed man.

@$Osisi: Even in high school, senior Kemi was praying. She was a young girl, just a tad older than you. What was the level of your spiritual commitment, back then? I wonder if you have improved, would she, Senior kemi not have improved in her own way, in the same degree?

I think that if you were not sleep walking, what will make you not avoid her prayer mat and the "brightly colored" water kettle? Senior Kemi is probably wearing Kimar and Nikab by now. But she was a young girl then when she was cursing people out and went straight into prayers! She must have improved some, since Prayer/Salah is a means of purifying the heart. A purified heart is a soft heart.

At her adulthood, now she will not be cursing people in your age, before she goes to prayer, since intentionally kick ing of her water bottle and stepping on her prayer mat will not be the best way to show hatred of Islam, as you did in high school. Come to think about it, I still hear a whole lot of adult Christians who if you pluck one eyes from their body, they, not only revenge. But they really revenge; first pluck an eye, then the second eye, and probably kill and ge to the whole family and wipe it out. And may not be satisfied until all friends and asociates of the person who wronged him is dead. I hear the prayers; not only back to the sender. But worse thing happening to all the members, friends and associates.

I am appaulled. I always cant believe my eyes when I hear the prayers of revenge from the Christians. The junior girls were not even praying and they did not even make any effort, even as they see Senior kemi was at least trying. Therefore, its not possible that they will know how far her prayers reached. Her effort amounted to great effort and Allah sees the intention, effort of trying to improve.

@Aloy.Emeka: Thats not part of prayer. I wonder if you can support your assertion from Quran and or ahadith? Further, you take the statement of a young child, say 15 years old girl to stand as the standard of Islamic process? If this is the case, then tell me if we cant use the same 15 year old age as a judgement for say Christianity, or Judaism, or any other? Do you see adult muslims cursing adult nonmuslims and then immediately enter prayers?

@Davidylan: In response to your stuck in the mud thinking about Surah 19 Verse 71, I will help you out by throwing a winch (rope/life vest, etc) to you. Read the following which include verse 71 for a meaningful and robustly complete understanding of the journey around hell. If after this, you are still diluded that it is the muslims that will go to hell, then it is clear that you are just intentionally not getting it. Tough thing for you if you dont know that verse 71 does not exist, alone.

If it did, and if you read it in isolation, it did not say that Muslims will go to hell, since in that verse; muslim or mumin was not mentioned as the only group among mankind that will cross the bridge over hell. Crossing the bridge did not say that Muslim must fall off it into hell fire. That is if we assume that only muslims will be on the brige.

What will they be doing on the bridge, since nothing is without a purpose? I submit that the muslims on the bridge are crossing over to the other side, where Paradise is. Paradise must be the flipside/opposite of Hell, or in your mind it is not? No? If on the otherhand every human being shall be made to go on the bridge, then I wonder where will your type; the non muslims think you're heading?


Maybe you think that is where your "flying in the sky" of meeting the biblical human god will kick in? But you will be already dead and death would have destroyed your situation. According to you it will happening on earth. Exactly what Jerry Fahwell thought. He is dead for almost 2 years now. Others are still thinking that they wll cheat death, even though they see that they are getting older, getting weaker and death is getting closer reaching out to them. Look at the Shuller guy or Franklin. Both are now old and look aged. There is no chance for them not to die. They will not cheat death. No one will. Jesus will not cheat death. Jesus (AS) will come and then die before the world ends!


19:66
Muhsin Khan: And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?" (In this case the disbeliever is singled out as man in this verse)
19:67
Muhsin Khan: Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing? (Man include muslims and non muslims, christians, and others)
19:68
Muhsin Khan: So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayatin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.
19:69
Muhsin Khan: Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allah).
19:70
Muhsin Khan: Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein. (only the disbelievers are to go to hell)
19:71
Muhsin Khan: There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished.
19:72
Muhsin Khan: Then We shall save those who use to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell).

@Tudor: You live in seychelles. Its like robins island of nelson mandela. Oh boy, no jail or prson for me. if i enter it, its because my condition very similar to Yusuf's (AS); preventing myself from doing any major evil.

@ my brothers and sisters in Islam. As Salaamualaykum wa Rahmatullah. May Allah guide us all and overlook as to cancel out all our sins, the past, the present and the fute ones. Amin. All the sahabas; men are women (RA) are beloved to me. Muhammad (AS) is the most beloved to us all. I will never condemn any of my leaders,even if I think his views are not 100% correct. Afterall, they are humans. This reminds me of Abu Bakr and then Umar (RA) coming to the prophet to say that they find hypocracy in their own attitude, because they see that when they are away from him and in the company of their family, their iman level is not the same. The messenger (AS) tells them that if they can remain like that, as if with him Angels would have come from heavens to shake their hands.

In essence he was telling them that they are human beings, and not human prophets. There is no one with 100% knowledge as Muhammad (AS) And the iman can not be equal to his. This is why he is our leader by Allah's special relationship with him. Afterall, he said that his soul is returned to him, each time salaam is sent on him.

My other story to talk about his special position is that no one of the 4 kalifahs (RA) was able to make 2 complete rakas, without an outside thought during that time. Though Umar's conclusion is drawn from Muhammad's statement that it still stands as one. We see the proof that Umar whip/beat the man as a sign of displeasure of his stupid and ignorant wish for himself on such a wrong decision. Umar let the man fall as he the man failed to see that he is loosing out of 2nd and 3rd opportunities on the woman.

And by the way, all corrections of mistakes of man actions from time of ignorance, before Islam were done upon the sahabas.This is how we have legislations about abolitions on alcohols, gambling, etc, illegal sex, etc. And this is how we are taught good manners and even the divorce procedings that we are discussing here and now.

@Lagosboy: As Salaamualaykum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh. My sheik, may Allah reward you, greatly and make easy your affairs. Allah's Messenger's injuctions are the only correct ones. Both directly or inferred. As I agree that Umar Khattab's period came to accept the 3 divorces in a single row, one will see that Umar did it, reluctant, to serve 2 purposes:

Umar beat the husband who is rushing the divorce of his wife to a third and final marriage, instead of the actual one he is ending. It is an irrational thing and a mark of ignorance. This type of Talag is called "Talaq Bida". And beating a person, is a sign of unhappiness and/or disagreement with the person. Beating in Islam is a sign of punishment, to show displeasure and also as a warning to others.

Did Muhammad (AS) accept a 3 in a row Talaq to mean the end of a third marriage, when the person in reality is ending the first marriage? The answer is no.

The four Imams stated that if their opinion is different to that of the Prophet, a believer must adopt that of Muhammad, instead of anyone elses. I do support the decisions of Islamic scholars, and the four Imams and that of the Companions. It must have a root in and must not disagree with that of Muhammad (AS).

So I will eat all types of seafoods, as long as it agrees with my body. No Imam can legislate against it, as we can find the permissability of it in Quran and in ahadith of Muhammad. $Osisi, after Muhammad, no other person can his statement be considered ahadith. No new ahadith after the death of Muhammad. Islam is made easy, and there is no reason for anyone or people to make it hard. If Umar was not intending to punish the man by accepting the 3 talaq process, he would never have accepted it.

@Tudor: And you will not have to wait any longer at the end of life. I could have been you, in the past. But will I eve do that, now? RElax man. 80 years fro now will be like tomorrow when you get there.

My boy David can read a lick. No one of you, simply means (you; humans or man). Read it again, aburo. I know you just drank water that was wine before. So the intostication just kicked in. Or is it that you drank alcohol straight? Either way, you dude aint seeing straight. I posted for you to read few verses before 71 that you got jammed in your mind, and then some after it. That should have made it very sequential and readable to you.

I am sure if it is the clapping and dancing and singing bits you will have no problem to get it. I know, you hate truth and love lies.

@Muhsin: Te post that started this thread specified Islamic procedure of divorce. He forgot that not all Norherners are Muslims. Should we expand this to cover the northerners, without regard to Islam? If this is yes, then please tell us about the animist and the christian Northerners divorces. I am not a northerner.

Am not a historian, either. I only speak about Islam, and northern Muslims do not have their own Islam. No one have an Islam that is different from what is in Quran, or hadith and sunnah different from that of Muhammad (AS). When Islam is maligned or misinterpreted, it is the duty of all muslims to come to defend it.

I have chosen the best path, since we are all trying to learn about the truth.

@$Osisi: In my sleep, last night, Allah blessed me with knowledge to remember something that Jacob/Israel (AS) did abut food for himself. Let me relate the story: Jacob had a contact, an angelic visit, at night (dark, no light, no one can see the face of the angel. it was darker than the murky (not so clear look of what you see of body of water as the night is about to begin) look that you see of water when the sun is setting on the surface.

So after the nightly contact, the Angel was leaving just before dawn (the start of the end of night darkness and the beginning of light to start the new day), and Jacob wanted to see his face. So he resorted to wrestling as a tactics to keep the Angel from leaving until there is enough light so that the his face can be seen clearly. The angel was not given permission to allow to permit this desire of Jacob. The angel by permission of Allah pressed the place of ball and socket joint (the thigh area) of Jacob. Jacob experience some pain, so he let go of the Angel, who revealed the new name, Israel that Allah wished to call Jacob from there onward. Jacob marked this event by personally imposing on himself a law not to eat a hind quarter of animal. This was what he forbade himself. And unfortunately, his bloodlines after him like drones adopted it, even though it was not made obligatory on them. Read the below verse from Quran that points to this fact:

From Surah Imran (Chapter 3)
[93] All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel made unlawful for himself, before the Law (of Musa) was revealed. Say: "Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth."

[94] If any, after this, invent a lie and attribute it to Allah, they are indeed unjust wrong-doers.

[95] Say: "Allah speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Ibrahim, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans."

From the above, you see that Allah did not rebuke His prophet Jacob (AS). But Allah wished that no one will ever impose any law on himself because others might think it is from Allah, just because of the piety of the person. In a way, what I think about Jacob, now Israel about this personal imposition, is that Allah allows it for him, because Allah does not allow a thing said by a prophet to be found untrue, unfulfilled. (If it was an ordinary person who set such a restriction on himself, and Allah accepts it for him, I will be pressed to say that it was a way of punishing him for being such a zealot,or overzealotness. You will see what I mean if you read my previous posts, above about the 3 talaqs in one session to end a marriage).

Now, I will go to Surah Maida to clear things up for you when you consider the imposition that Jacob/Israel set for himself.

The Holy Qur'an > Surah  Al-Maidah> Verse  5
This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are Believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time, when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues. If any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).  


The Holy Qur'an > Surah  Al-Maidah> Verse  87
O ye who believe! make not unlawful the good things which Allah hath made lawful for you, but commit no excess; for Allah loveth not those given to excess.  

From Verse 5 of Almaidah, we see the injuctions of lawfulness, and obedience cover marriage and not only limited to food. And from Verse 87, we see that Allah as a favor to the final nation of believers, the Muslims under the prophethood of Muhammad (AS) warns and forbids the making of laws on ourselves, even though we may like and think we can cope with the self restrictions and deem them as sign of piety. But all laws is from Allah, and those He permitted though His Messenger (AS).  So from the above; Surah Imran and Surah Maida, we see that Allah restricts us from all kinds of zealotness or overzealotness. No wonder we the Muslims do not follow the food restrict that Jacob (AS) set for himself, which are blindly followed by (Jews). Although we follow the fasting of David, Jesus, and fast on Ashura because Moses started it as hisown tradition to show gratitude of his victory over Pharaoh.

In my earlier post, you will see therein that Muhammad (AS), in his mild manneredness, as a prophet, instead of saying to the man that 3 pronouncements is equal to 3 divorces, and you can't marry her again, unless she is married to somebody first, and divorced from him, he said to the man that it stands for just one talaq. In other word; it could have been said a number of times, regardless of how many time more, it will just count as one and not two and not three, etc! And the prophet (AS) mercifully suggested to the man that he can take his wife back, for the next round of marriage, say marriage number 2, for example, I will assume since he did not know if 1 talaq is valid or it is 3 talaqs. For if he had been divorced before, since the laws of divorce had been revealed, he would not be seeking knowledge about it, this time around. He wouldhave repeated what he did before!. No one knew, or he did not believe that the community or persons he had informed knew the correct answer. This was the reason he came to the seat of knowledge, Prophet Muhammad (AS) to find out before he lost his wife, out of share ignorance. The man thought he had rushed 3 marriages into 1 single marriage. Come to thing of it, this is the same misgiving of the Christians about having to say that 3 gods is equal to One God!

If 3 talaqs to announce the end of the very first round of marriage is equal to the end of 3rd marriage, which is at least final in the successive sequence of marriages between two people without another man marrying the woman, then the prophet would not have allowed the man to marry his wife, again based on his statement of "it stands for 1 talaq, and take your wife back." This proves regardless of how many talaqs pronounced, it can only be as effective as the pronouncement of just one talaq! The over doing it is just an overzealotness. The effect is zero.

However, after the death of the prophet(AS), and even after Abu Bakr (RA), during the Kalifah of Umar Khattab, we see that Muslims are going out of the boundary set in Quran and ahadith of Muhammad (AS). And by the way, again, Umar's actions or saying, if it did not come from Muhammad or allowed during his time, it can not be Sunnah or ahadith. We realise that some muslims were fought against because of their refusal to pay Zakat to Abu Bakr. They did not say that they were not muslims, anymore. They aid that the death of the prophet ended up the collection and payments of zakat! Yet they did not say the same about Salah, or Saum or Hajj or the two Shahadas!

Umar adopted the 3 talaqs as a means of punishment for those who hasten to get rid of their wives. For you see, after divorce, it is natural that men (including me) reflect and miss the woman, the companion. At least both husband and wife are legal means of sexual comfort, relieves, release, etc. The yoruba says that a young man slept with the sexual organ of his wife, he abused the part. Does he not know that before long, he will be sexually aroused, again?

When you consider that Umar takes the 3 talaqs as a way to punish the ignorant man who made it, it is at the same time setting up a warming for those people in the community to not take such a rash, harsh action/position, against themselves, in the immediate run, all the while think because of the anger and lack of knowledge that it is the woman who feels the consequent, more or only.

Anger is a "mother", ok, "son" (Islam has restricted me, curbs my behavior, and ties my tongue). It makes people act terrible. No wonder Allah's Messenger advised a man who came to him seeking a great advice not to get angry. He repeated the same adviced to the man, as the man asked him to give him another, in 3 seccessive requests.

@$Osisi: When you wake up, woman, read the four segments, above, starting from the 3 divorces at the same time. You will see that your premise is very wrong, and the correct position can be found in Quran, and ahadith. I am correct and you are not. By te way ahadith is only limited to the lifetime of the prophet (AS).

Umar bin Khattab's saying (RA) can never be deemed as an ahadith. He can relate the saying of Prophet Muhammmad (AS). That is an ahadith. His own statement can never be one.

Become muslim, woman and you and oga will study Islam together. Two heads are better than one.

This ruling, as I have mentioned earlier, is one adopted by a number of renowned scholars, including Imam Ibn Taimiyah and Imam Ibn Al Qayyum. Earlier in this century, when the family law in several countries was enacted, scholars who were entrusted with the task of formulating the Islamic teachings in a well coded family law chose this ruling as the correct one and incorporated in that family law. It was then endorsed by the ruler. As such, it takes a much stronger effect.

From a totally different point of view, it is well known that in Islam, when a person says to his wife that she is divorced, intending a termination of his marriage to her, she begins the procedure of divorce [and her waiting period] immediately. She is, technically speaking, a divorcee, but she is observing a waiting period.

When he says the same thing to her a second time, whether immediately or a short while afterwards, his statement is no more than an idle talk because she is no longer his wife. How is it possible to divorce a woman who is not one's wife? That is certainly impossible and, therefore, the second and any subsequent utterances of the word of divorce have no significance whatsoever.

The second point is that when there is more than one verdict in relation to a particular question, a person in my position, having to answer people's queries and explain what people should do in order to earn Allah's pleasure, should not leave his readers in a position of confusion. He must tell them the view that he believes to be the correct one, as supported by the weightier evidence. If any reader decides that he wants to take the other view, he is free to do so, but he should make his decision based on a proper understanding of the evidence relevant to the question on hand.

Thirdly, if the leader of a Muslim community chooses a verdict which is supported by good and weighty evidence and decides that this is the one to be implemented by the courts of law, he must be obeyed provided that he is only acting in the best interests of the community.

Those who consider that a divorce pronounced three times in succession, or in one session, or written down on the same piece of paper counts as three divorces rely on a ruling by Umar ibn Al-Khattab who, as a ruler of the Islamic state, enforced that piece of regulation. He justified it by saying: "People have precipitated something in which they have been given relief, it may be appropriate to enforce what they have precipitated."

So he enforced it. It is clear from this statement that Umar meant this as a punishment befitting the misbehavior of people who precipitate the irrevocability of divorce by divorcing their wives three times in succession. In other words, he was saying that "People want that irrevocability to take place immediately, then let them have it."

The companions of the Prophet who were alive at that time accepted Umar's view, because they felt that the punishment was appropriate. Later scholars have taken this as a unanimous verdict by the companions of the Prophet and include it in their books as the appropriate ruling. The fact that it was merely a punishment is the acknowledgment implied in Umar's own statement that people have already been granted a relief, but they still precipitate the ultimate result.

It is only appropriate to ask what that relief is. The answer is contained in the authentic Hadith included in this report by Abdullah ibn Abbas: Rukanah ibn Abdyazid divorced his wife three times in the same place, and then he was full of grief of having done so. Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) asked him: "How did you divorce her?" Rukanah said: "I have divorced her thrice." The Prophet asked him: "In one session?" He answered: "Yes." The Prophet said: "That is one divorce, and you may return to her if you wish." He revoked the divorce and remarried her."

This Hadith tells us that the Prophet himself gave the ruling that a divorce pronounced three times in a succession, or in one place counts only as one divorce. It is well known that a remarriage between a divorced couple can take place if the divorce is taking effect for the first or second time. Indeed, this was the ruling enforced by the Prophet throughout his life, and also enforced throughout the reign of Abu-Bakr and the early period of the reign of Umar. All companions of the Prophet who were alive in that period were unanimous in their acceptance of such a divorce as a single divorce

In addition, if we are good believers and know that following the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) brings us the greatest reward of all, namely, that Allah is pleased with us, we should work hard to implement the Prophet's teachings in our lives. The Prophet has repeatedly emphasized that we must take good care of our women. To take good care of one's wife cannot be accomplished by abusing the law of divorce in order to get rid of her, or "cast her away" as you say.

In order to understand the difference, you should know that there are two types of divorce in Islam, one is called sunni, which means it is done according to what has been stipulated in the Sunnah; the other kind is called bid'i, which means it has been done in a different way contrary to the Sunnah of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). A sunni divorce means that a husband divorces his wife once at a time she is not menstruating or in a period of purity that no sexual intercourse were held. A bid'i divorce means the husband divorces his wife in a situation opposite to what has been stated in the sunni divorce, such as during menstruation.

Divorcing a wife thrice in one sitting is considered a bid'i divorce. That is why Muslim scholars have held different views on whether such divorce counts or not, and if it does count, does it count as revocable or irrevocable divorce. The majority of scholars said that a triple divorce counts as once, because it is reported that a man came to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) and told him that he had divorced his wife three times. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) told him that one of them had been considered and the rest been disregarded.

May I now turn to the other point of divorcing one's wife three times in the same session. I have explained several times that this is forbidden. When the Prophet heard that one of his companions did this, he expressed extreme anger and addressed the Muslim community, saying: "Will Allah's book be trifled with when I am still alive among you?" He described a divorce pronounced three times in the same session as "trifling with Allah's Book." There can be no greater emphasis that such an action is absolutely forbidden. Yet people do it all the time.

I am afraid that many are under the false impression that unless they pronounce the word of divorce three times together, the divorce does not take effect. Therefore, this comes as a result of ignorance. The question is whether what people do, pronouncing the word of divorce three times in quick succession, or in one session, or on the same day, counts three divorces as the four schools of thought say, or counts as one divorce, as I have explained on more than one occasion.

Before answering this question let me point out three very important facts:

First, a verdict may be accepted by a large number of highly prominent scholars, including, the founders of the four schools of thought, yet it may be supported by less weighty evidence than an opposite verdict which may be advocated by a smaller number of scholars. If we find that evidence supporting the view of the minority weightier, then we do not hesitate to accept that opinion, because no one, a scholar or others, of even the highest eminence, is immune from making a mistake or giving a judgment which relies on a misunderstanding, etc.

All our scholars agree that no opinion of any person is to be taken in preference to an authentic Hadith. Even the founders of the four schools of thought have expressed this view very clearly. Imam Al-Shaf'ie says: "If I say something and you find an authentic Hadith saying something different, then take the Hadith and leave my opinion aside."

The second point is that when

5. Divorce: When a three-time divorce is binding

Question :

Many of us felt a great relief when we read your reply, explaining that a divorce pronounced three or more times in one session is counted as one revocable divorce.

1. The relief comes from the fact that it is common practice in our part of the world to pronounce divorce three times together, which has resulted in many a broken homes. However, it is mentioned by scholars that all four schools of thought are unanimous in considering a divorce pronounced three times as three divorces, which renders the break of the marriage irreparable. Please comment in detail.

2. It is common practice that a man casts his wife by pronouncing the word of divorce three times. It is often true that this irrevocable break up of the marriage has no reason other than the husband's desire for another woman or some such silly thing. In this way, he uses the law of divorce to satisfy his whims. Could you please explain what sort of protection is given to the woman to guard against such abuse of the law?

Answer :

Any law or regulation can be subject to abuse. Unless you appoint someone to watch over every person to ensure that he abides by the letter and spirit of the law, you cannot achieve a proper adherence to the law. But Islamic laws and regulations are given the support of the very real feeling which Islam implants in the mind of every one of its followers that Allah watches over him or her. When we realize that Allah knows our intentions and the real reasons behind our actions, we feel that we must always watch out. We must never abuse Allah's law or be guilty of any wrongdoing. As people who believe in the Oneness of Allah and in the message of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) we know that we have to face a detailed reckoning on the Day of Judgment, when we have to answer for every action that we may make in this life. It is the total sum of what we have done in life and the net result of our good actions set against our bad ones that determines our destiny in the life to come.

As believers we know that heaven and hell are a reality and that we must do our best to ensure our admission into heaven. Therefore, we must always guard against doing injustice to anyone, particularly those whom we are required to look after and to whom we are supposed to bring happiness, i.e. our wives and close relatives. The other safeguard is the fact that in a Muslim community, women are properly looked after either by their husbands or by male members of their families, such as their fathers, brothers or uncles.

In addition, if we are good believers

1. Divorce, ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE

Question :

What are the reasons that a man can justify to divorce? Is it ok for him to divorce a woman identifying her mistakes?

Does the wife have the right to try to reconcile even if the husband does not want to, is there anything in Islam that requires that the husband must try to reconcile, or is everything completely up to him?

Answer :

Divorce is the most hated permissible thing in the sight of Allah. It dissolves families and deprives children the family atmosphere. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The most hateful permissible thing (al-Halal) in the sight of Allah is divorce." (Abu Dawud, Hadith 1863, Ibn Majah, Hadith 2008).

The spouses should avoid divorce as much as possible. If they have difficulties and problems, they should be patient and forbearing. They have to try to work out their differences and seek help from their relatives, friends or professional counselors.

Due to the sacredness of the marriage contract, Islam asks both the husband and the wife to keep and respect this bond. Thus, each partner in this sacred relationship must treat the other kindly and properly. A man must not divorce his wife to bring harm upon her, as this constitutes an act that demolishes this noble establishment, breaks the woman’s heart, and possibly separates the woman from her children without any reason. Thus, the separation between a man and his wife (without just reasons) was considered one of the major and grave sins, and one of the most beloved actions of Satan, as was narrated in a number of hadiths. This is, of course, a form of oppression which is totally forbidden in Islam.

In this regard, we recall the Prophet’s hadith that reads: "Iblis (Satan) places his throne upon water, then sends his groups. The closest to him are those who (tempt people to) commit the most grievous of sins (fitnah). One of them would approach him and say: I did such-and-such. Iblis would reply: You have done nothing. Another would approach and say: I did not leave him (a man) until I caused him to leave his wife and for them to be separated. Iblis would bring him close to his throne and would say: How good you are!”

And since the husband must never divorce his wife in order to bring harm upon her without reason, it is also forbidden for a woman to ask for a divorce without a sensible reason. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Any woman who asks her husband to divorce her without an acceptable reason will never smell the scent of Paradise.”

Given the above, it becomes crystal clear that neither the husband nor the wife has the right to resort to divorce without justification. Divorce should be the last resort after all attempts of reconciliation fail. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Let a believing man not dislike a believing woman. If something in her is displeasing to him, another trait may be pleasing.”

@$Osisi: I wonder if I should divorce you, since a man man is divorced from his wife, with the very first pronouncement of "I divorce you/talaq", even before he made the second and the third pronouncement? Since the woman is no more is wife and has entered the period of waiting/iddah, even before he made the second and third pronouncements. Such a person can not sleep with that woman, even before he said talaq, the second and the third times? The first talaq has taking the opportunity to have sex between the two of them, except that they engage in Zina, even before the 2nd and 3rd pronouncements of talaq.

My dear, the second and third talaqs are just idle talks, and that is why I can divorce you, since you are not my wife. My talaq pronouncement on you now, will have the same exact effect as the second and third talaq of the man who had just pronounced the #1 talaq on his wife! Anyway, enjoy.

I wish Zainab is as wrong as you, in matters of religion. My wager with her would have been the thing I enjoyed so much. The lawyer girl is smart, because she does not lose argument with this lion. lol. Read the below entries, please.


1. Divorce, ISLAMIC PERSPECTIVE

Question :

What are the reasons that a man can justify to divorce? Is it ok for him to divorce a woman identifying her mistakes?

Does the wife have the right to try to reconcile even if the husband does not want to, is there anything in Islam that requires that the husband must try to reconcile, or is everything completely up to him?

Answer :

Divorce is the most hated permissible thing in the sight of Allah. It dissolves families and deprives children the family atmosphere. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "The most hateful permissible thing (al-Halal) in the sight of Allah is divorce." (Abu Dawud, Hadith 1863, Ibn Majah, Hadith 2008).

The spouses should avoid divorce as much as possible. If they have difficulties and problems, they should be patient and forbearing. They have to try to work out their differences and seek help from their relatives, friends or professional counselors.

Due to the sacredness of the marriage contract, Islam asks both the husband and the wife to keep and respect this bond. Thus, each partner in this sacred relationship must treat the other kindly and properly. A man must not divorce his wife to bring harm upon her, as this constitutes an act that demolishes this noble establishment, breaks the woman’s heart, and possibly separates the woman from her children without any reason. Thus, the separation between a man and his wife (without just reasons) was considered one of the major and grave sins, and one of the most beloved actions of Satan, as was narrated in a number of hadiths. This is, of course, a form of oppression which is totally forbidden in Islam.

In this regard, we recall the Prophet’s hadith that reads: "Iblis (Satan) places his throne upon water, then sends his groups. The closest to him are those who (tempt people to) commit the most grievous of sins (fitnah). One of them would approach him and say: I did such-and-such. Iblis would reply: You have done nothing. Another would approach and say: I did not leave him (a man) until I caused him to leave his wife and for them to be separated. Iblis would bring him close to his throne and would say: How good you are!”

And since the husband must never divorce his wife in order to bring harm upon her without reason, it is also forbidden for a woman to ask for a divorce without a sensible reason. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Any woman who asks her husband to divorce her without an acceptable reason will never smell the scent of Paradise.”

Given the above, it becomes crystal clear that neither the husband nor the wife has the right to resort to divorce without justification. Divorce should be the last resort after all attempts of reconciliation fail. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “Let a believing man not dislike a believing woman. If something in her is displeasing to him, another trait may be pleasing.”

@$Osisi: Allah says divorce one time about the wives of the prophet. Not three times. And by the way, because he was a prophet (AS), his case is a special circumstances: He can only marry a woman, once. If the woman is divorced from him, the woman can not be married by him, again. Read;


Surah Ahzah; 33:28
Muhsin Khan: O Prophet (Muhammad SAW)! Say to your wives: If you desire the life of this world, and its glitter, Then come! I will make a provision for you and set you free in a handsome manner (divorce).

No more remarrying and no 3 talaqs either!

$Osisi: Allah's Mesenger (AS) is the most knowledgeable about the Laws of Allah, among mankind. The proofs are overwhelming and I do not have to go back to it.

The four imams, each stated in the openingsof his methodology; If I give an opinion, and (you my reader) later on finds a statement given by the the noble Messenger (AS) about the subject matter. If the statement of the prophet is different from my opinion, which you have already accepted as a fact, then discard my opinion, and take the statement of the prophet. For if I have had that knowledge of what the prophet have said about the subject matter, it would have been exactly by statement, the basis of any explanation I would ever give on the subject matter.

$Osisi, unfortunately you fail to read the clear statement of the Website gotten material you posted. Just for a good logical exercise, is it possible to divorce a person Three times, without marrying that person three times, also? Is it not true that marriage must take place so that a possible divorce can occur?

Allah say to believers; Oh believers, come to My Prophet when he calls you, to what gives you life. But the believers are alive. The life that Allah talks about is spiritual life, since physical life is for everyone who is still alive. While spiritual life is for those who are true believers.

Allah also states that Muhammad does not say anything out of his own desire. All that he says at least in the matter of worship is what he has been commanded to tell mankind. As we know marriage is part of worship. It is reported that marriage is half of the deen. Reason is that it allows the natural fulfillment of procreation. It foster good community and its unity. It allows the legal sexual pleasure, which every one naturally crave. It bars anyone with good heart from participating in illegal sexual relationship. Inshort it helps and improves the general wellness of the one in wholesome marriage relationship.

If you therefore look at the above, you will have to come to the conclusion that the prophet asked the man who told him about his pronouncement of talaq, thrice to his wife, that he should consider it as a lonely One (1) talaq!

The man could have said that he said it a hundred times, it would have been just one. Or baby, are you saying that the 100 talaqs should be divided by 3, and we come up with 33 and 1/3 divorces? You make me laugh, woman.

Finally, and am not downing the arabs. But the Quran is revealed in Arabic land. And most of the problems approached by the Quran, the arabs served as the base(s) for them. So when alcoholic consumption was being forbidden, it was that an arab carried out a bad act which Allah used to bring about His plan to enact the abolition.


If anyone knows about Arab people, they are stubborn, hard hearted for the most part. They are typical semitic people. Take a look at the Jew for further testimony of what I mean. Allah says in Surah Toubah that the Arabs are for the most part are clearly disbelievers and evildoers. All did b not say all of them. The nature of mankind is not different in a general sense. today 3/4 of mankind are disbelievers because they are not muslims.

In Madina, during the time of Muhammad, a bedouin came to see him. There was no amount of gift (adiyah) that was given to this countryside/village/uncouth man that was enough. Such a person, if he was talking in anger could have pronounced 30 talaq on his wife. He will still not be satisfied and may still want to emphasis his anger by some more talaq. Most of the people who accepted Islam were the poor and unsoffistiacted. They had to be cultured, improved, made better, elevated in stature by Islam. These are the people who got divorced. And it is not surprising that that they made three Talaqs, instead of one. Allah's Messenger telling that they should consider it as just one knows better that you or me, or Abu Hanifah or anyone for that matter. Who is it that I follow? The prophet who received the Quran, of course.

By the way, we did not hear that the likes of Abu Bakr divorced his wife or wives. And the Prophet never divorced any of his wives. And from Surah Ahzab where Allah told his wives that if they want to be divorced, they will be given a divorce by Allah and His Messenger. Divorce as said once, not that you will be divorced, divorced and divorced! Duuh. (Am laughing).

@$Osisi: You will see that I am not lying. And Lailah can say what she wants. I pray that she comes back to Islam. Right now, she has no authority to give Islamic opinions. Islam is neither an arab religion nor any one from any region can claim exclusivity of it! Her former husband was not practicing Islam as muslims should either. I am quoting her expressed opinions. Just because she is an arab does not qualify her in the least. And being in Islam for a longer period of time does not make a person knowledgeable. Allah impact knowledge, a gift, a mercy, a means of elevation from Him.

2:230
Muhsin Khan: And if he has divorced her (the third time), then she is not lawful unto him thereafter until she has married another husband. Then, if the other husband divorces her, it is no sin on both of them that they reunite, provided they feel that they can keep the limits ordained by Allah. These are the limits of Allah, which He makes plain for the people who have knowledge.


2:231
Muhsin Khan: And when you have divorced women and they have fulfilled the term of their prescribed period, either take them back on reasonable basis or set them free on reasonable basis. But do not take them back to hurt them, and whoever does that, then he has wronged himself. And treat not the Verses (Laws) of Allah as a jest, but remember Allah's Favours on you (i.e. Islam), and that which He has sent down to you of the Book (i.e. the Quran) and Al-Hikmah (the Prophet's Sunnah - legal ways - Islamic jurisprudence, etc.) whereby He instructs you. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is All-Aware of everything.


2:232
Muhsin Khan: And when you have divorced women and they have fulfilled the term of their prescribed period, do not prevent them from marrying their (former) husbands, if they mutually agree on reasonable basis. This (instruction) is an admonition for him among you who believes in Allah and the Last Day. That is more virtuous and purer for you. Allah knows and you know not.

@$Osisi: Woman, please speak the truth. You can read english very well. A casual read of 2;229 tells me that the "a divorce is permissable twice", followed by "and after that" tell me that one can divorce his wife, two times, before the "and after that" part becomes a thing that one should pay a particular attention to.

What follows should also tell you, since what i got from it is that "the husbands and wife should either struggle to hold on to their marriage, until death occurs to one or both of them," or they realise that it is no use being together, since they have not learnt, in both successive marriages to one another, since they are now in the second round of divorce!"

Man is warned to refrain from asking to take back any part or portion of the "Dowry!"

In this verse the third and final divorce is not even mentioned. That you will find expressed in verse 2;230, which is next to what you quoted. A simple tilt of your face downward would have helped you to be as thorough in your research and inference(s), as i had hoped.

Before I wrote my last entry, I called a Muslim lawyer to simply ask him the legislations/jurispudence on Islamic divorce and the pronouncement of "Talaq; I divorce you". Mind you I have lived my life as a muslim. And I have in the past 15 years or so, spent and continue to spend time, on Islamic materials, lectures, dialogues, etc. All of these are really channelled to "my better understanding of my religious duties."

Verse 2;230 lead us a very direct statement that after the third divorce, there is no involvement of the man in her life, as regarding her next marriage, except that she observe the waiting period, of what may be called the first trimester.

What is it that you don't get in it?


My dear $Osisi, if a man is angry and enraged (in the same degree that some people will have to go hit a punching bag just to let off team) and the Muslim man says to his wife " I divorce you 50 times,"could you inform me how many divorce(s) that will amount to? Please tell me from the best of your knowledge, oh woman!

In response to the adith, you will see that the answer was that if they say it thrice, or even less or more, to end a divorce, the first divorce or the second divorce, it does not matter, the moment the first pronouncement is made, it is done. Saying it the second, the third time, etc is not going to make it any final than what it is already. When he makes this statement to end the third marriage, meaning the final divorce, so that somebody else can now marry this woman, without a chance (according to Sharia that the husband that has just divorced her can marry her for the fourth time) for the divorcing man to keep her any longer, how many times should he have to say it before it becomes effective?


Lets just look at your premise for a moment and see how weak it is; if a divorce pronouncement is only effective by the third I divorce you, what happens to a man who says it let us say one time or almost on the edge, two times and do not reach out to the third time saying it? Is he still married or not? What if this man is hot like "bird seed pepper: and by so doing is always divorcing this woman, his wife by saying I divorce you say once? How many times can he say it before their marriage actually be officially over the very first time, still allowing them to have a two time possible remarrying?

If he says I divorce you like a clock, every six month, whats your timeline for their actual first divorce? Fortunately, Islam has rules and it is not a joke and it is not a way people can come up with their own idea, like say in Christianity or others. Below I will post the verse 2;230 of baqarah for your enjoyment.

@Noetic2: There is no 3 times divorce pronouncement. Only ignorant muslims and people like you, the antimuslim/antiIslamic believe this unsubstantiative assumption.

And by the way, the wife can initiate the divorce for sound variety of reasons. Have you heard about "Kulah?"

A man can not divorce a woman for flimsy excuse(s), either. Allah says in Surah Nisaa (from verse 20 to about 30, or so speak about women and men and divorce(s)). By the way Allah says about men; will you divorce your wife because of some (unsound reason(s))? Maybe Allah wishes to bless you through that wife, you are intending to divorce for (lousy and unfounded and unmerciful reason.

Tell me in your Bible where divorce is frowned upon, with proper reasoning. I am not talking about the dont do it and we already see a ton of it happening, daily. It reminds me of done do boyfriend/girlfriend and unmarried sexual thing, and just a a few people listen!

@Tudor: (Come to think of it; there is a place around the UN Headquarters in NYC called Tudor city. Are you from there, man? I know there is a building style called Tudor, too.)

My man, wait and I am also waiting. Allah is waiting, too. At appointed time, I hope you have moved on to my side of the argument before the waiting is no more. Don't die except that you are in the state of Islamic belief!

I think you like brievity. How about that?

@Tudor: Its there a "White House" in Seycelles? And you don't know any history at all. Russia is a state. Chechenya is  state. Latvia is a state. Georgia is a state. There are many states. In the past, all these states in the Baltics used to be under a "conglamorate" called USSR. The headquarter or capital was Moscow.

Even under the USSR rule, the Chechens were always trying to breakaway, true to Islamic statement about the conditions of man; Oppression is worse than killing. Quran also states that when you (muslims) are going to way, let some of you stay behind, to acquire knowledge so that when the "warriors" return home, you may impart knowledge into them. Another part of Quran states that muslims should all fight together (decide and accept to fight), in the same way that Quran expresses that Muslims should all together hold on to the "Rope" of Allah and never divide among itself, its community or nation.

It is not inhuman, rather it is courage that a weak people get up and refuse to laydown and allow the powerfuls to oppress them. The muslims are encouraged in adith that if a person were to want to take your properties by force, you put up a resistance. If you die in the process, you will not go to hell, rather you will go to paradise for your "Jihad; Struggle" to protect your properties, your honor as human. However if you behave as a spineless being and let the "bully" steam roll you, in the hope that he will not kill you (remember Fela's song; where he sang that blackmen dont wanna die and hence just allow oppression to go unchallenged?), if the oppressor decided to kill you anyways, the fact that you did not struggle, will actually condemn you to Hell!

When Afghanis effort finally dented the invisibility of USSR, and finally USSR broke to pieces, did you think a struggling Muslim community should remain with Russia? Silly thinking if you think so! Chenchens were picked on by Russia and the west did not do anything about it because it is a Muslim society which has always been in struggle! Well, we see the proof in last year's Russian invasion of a district of Georgia, and how the west; europe and USA got hot quickly and jumped on Russia. The reason is the religiousity of Georgia.

So that you know, the Chechens will not stop struggling against the oppressions from Russia. I hope they stay within Islamic rules of struggle. In the long run, they will be victorious. You cant keep down the effort of spiritually superior people for long. The Children of Israel suffered under tyranical Pharaoh for century or centuries. In the long run, they won while Pharaoh and his army lost, in a completely decisive way.

The human spirit, when it has the support of Allah will win. Watch it. Wait and see.


@Noetic2: Kissing the Quran is not from any Surah or from any hadith. I dont do it. I will not do it.

@Noetic2: I know that hypocritical mind will not let your heart and eyes be able to make out what I wrote! Go back to what you said, and what Davidylan said. Join the two together. You will be able to relate, since I addressed you and David, your heart, if it were pure, would have had no difficulty getting it!

How would I have adressed you except that you had something to say about the topic? Duuh! Open your eyes, man. Mr. Hypocrite.

@Davidylan: Considering your A and B muslims scenerio; It is from Allah's mercy to forgive sins. The two both believe in the Oneness (you on the other hand, as much as I love you believe in 3 gods; is there a comparing between the Muslims and the Christians in the way the view the Creator?) of Allah. Thats what make them muslims. Both practice prayers. One, A Muslim does not act out the vices that the other Muslim B acts out. InshaAllah both of them will be forgiven and their sins blotted out. While A will be starting out at a higher level/quality of paradise, B the always vice ridden wil start out at the level that is lower.

But both are in paradise. See the mercy of just believing? Proof; Allah's Messenger (AS), told his Uncle who was also the father of Ali, AbiTalib, on the uncle's dath bed to just simply say from his own lips, that Allah is the Only God and there are no gods. This was in Makka. THis man Abitalib have been the most single consistent person in the life of the prophet. He supported him up to his death. However he would not even repeat what his noble nephew asked of him. He knew that the nephew was a truthful person. Even his own son, Ali (RA) was a muslim. His only fault was that he did not want his people (Abu Jahal, Abu Lahab, etc all idolators) to say after his death that he abandoned the religion of his forefathers.

Can anybody believe this man, except that his heart was not a believing heart? After his death, what will it mean to him if anybody say anything bad about him?

« #9 on: Today at 05:49:21 PM »
Quote from: noetic2 on Today at 05:47:26 PM
are u just realising the merciless hypocrisy in islam. . . . . .i wonder if allah will have mercy on u naughty atheist. . . . .when even muslims will go to hell.


i wonder. What's the use being a muslim? Everyone of them will be in hell by a fixed ordinance of allah.

Noetic2 and Davidylan: What is the bruhaha all about? Remember that you say that your human god is all that ends all? Why are you crying? I wonder how possible that what I said is worse than your intended mass killing of the Jews for not accepting Jesus? Less I forget that the rest of us, the non Christians and the stubborn and mercilessly slaughtered Jews will be condemned to "Lake of Fire!" You guys are the worst of Hypocrites. Stop it men!

@Tudor: « #7 on: Today at 04:29:10 PM »  

''Those who disbelieved in the prophet will be punished insha allah''

I said inshaAllah, and you are hot on the collar! Your blood is boiling, already? I am a nothing and my statement of "reminder" already got you wildup.yet you ignore the warning of punishment from your Creator. And you expect not to get punished? Have you seen a society that does not punish its criminals under its laws, or a household that does not make the offenses of its stubborn member consequential? Did your parent never show dissatisfaction at your disobedience? Will you expect less from Allah Who you knowingly disobey, even as you obey your "professor?" Stop acting as if I have offended you. I only reminded you, in the same way I remind myself and my loved ones.

Are you not ashamed of yourself?

Why ashamed? I spoke the truth and you said i must be ashamed? Will it make you feel good if I lied? I told my mother how I felt, without forcing her to leave Christianity. Alah soften her heart to Islam, when she saw Christianity for what t was. (Bear in mind that Judaism is not popular with Nigerians. heck not with any other people except the jews. And if my mother have been following any other religion; ogun or any other, I would have made the same observarion; God let her see what the other religion was).

You have no right to call yourself a human being.

All that qualify any one for passing as a human being, I have. I eat, drink, have dream, hope, aspiration, and speak my mind, free will, etc. I wonder what you have that makes you better than me, hence I will not be human? If you are an atheist, your whole idea is that there is no God Almighty. Hence, your purpose of being on earth is just as simple and mondane like that of anything; tree, animals, etc. If you are a Christian, you claim that no one enters heaven with Jesus. So whats your beef with me having my say according? At least, I am trying to direct all my purpose of being to Allah. I maybe a bad human being, human being nonetheless, I am. Your suggestion is out of plain.

A real human being will be compassionate and say ''those who disbelived the prophet will be punished,MAY ALLAH HAVE MERCY''. Is anything wrong in praying for mercy?

First, I answer the question of the verse. Then I say inshaAllah which is a sign of humility even as I speak the truth. The lack of Mercy is actually on your part, for you see the truth, you read the truth, you recognized the truth, yet you pretend that you do not know that it is the truth. If you are not pretending, my saying that Christians; are not muslims, hence they will be punished, instead of being forgiven, since I stated that they actually are not followers of Jesus the Messenger and are not in obedience to the laws/commmands of Allah to Jesus, or Muhammad (AS).

Mercy is that you are reminded that you are on the wrong side of history with God. If I vasilage your ego, maybe you will love me. I am more interested of telling you the truth, here and now, so that you will not have any excuse against me on the Day of Judgement. My prayer should not be your problems. Try to face your problems and take the correct position with your Creator. InshaAllah, if you turn back from your not worshipping your Creator, he will forgive you, from His Mercy. I hope you are not too arrogant or ignorant to accept.

But no,you just love the idea of your allah punishing people,it warms your cockles.Shame on you for showing your heartlessness and barbarism to the world.

I am convinced that you know that Allah is your Lord and you have only refused to worship Him because of your arrogance and ignorance. If you do not already know and you are only been full of pride, you would not have been this bitter at my statement. If I had said that I will punish you, you would have laughed at my face, since you well know that I do not know who you are. But you know that you can't hide from Allah!

Your arrogance reminds me of the story that a grandson of late trumpeter Miles Davies told us in the Masjid  (Imanm Ali Masjid) on Halsey and Lewis in Brooklyn. He said grandpa Miles said that he knew that Islam is the correct religion. But he can't bow and prostrate his face to Allah. Yet, this Davies man (Ali) is the father of the father of this young man. Both son and grandson of Davies are Muslims. Few years ago, during the 2001 Ramadan, I spent my last 10 days in Islamic center of Newark, New Jersey. In one of our evenings, one of the brothers was tell us a story of how he dialogued with a pastor up the hill, on Martin Luther King Boulevard. The Pastor believed that Islam is the right religion but will not change to it because of the money making machines called his church.

The same Pastor, in the long run was caught with his pant down to below his ankle stuck with another man under him. I am telling you this particularly not because you may not have homosexuals in Islam now, but because the homosexuals will be condemned to Hellfire, if they do not desist. Afterall, the people of Prophet Lut were perished. Should I now say to a homosexual that he will not be thrown to Hell, just because I think his reaction will be exactly like yours, above?

Islam to me is clear. While I am not a great muslim, I am very conscious of my faults and where I need improvements. I am not unmindful of my condition.

Now that you have expressed your outrage at my blunt and brutal honesty, what will you do so that you will not be punished by my Allah?

@Abuzola: What anabiyullah Isa bin Mariam have indicated by his statement in the dialogue that Allah states that will happen on the day of Judgement comes down to few matters; First it is Allah that has All Knowledge; Al Alim. It is Allah that does not die: Al Ayu. It is Allah Who is capable of doing all things: Al Qadir.

With the above in mind, it is Allah who revealed the Quran.
It is Allah who sent Isa bin Mariam as a messenger/prophet and given the honor of being the massiah to the children of Israel. Its birth by a woman who did not have a man mounting her and having sex with her is a sign, ayat of Allah.


On the day of Judgement, it is Allah Who will initiate the dialogue by calling His slave/servant human prophet, Jesus son of Mary. Allah tells him, in front of mankind, all His favors on him. Jesus is not reported to be able to refute any of Allah's statement.

Then Allah continues to ask him, after the above,if he ever said to anyone that he is part God, and/or to worship him and or his mother, since we see and also hear Christian say: in the name of Jesus, when they pray, and the catholic sect of Christianity is never far behind since they pray to Mary as mother of god.

Notice that if only the issue of Jesus is adressed in the Quran, without his mother's case, we may have many "smartly deceitful people" trying to say, see, the Quran leaves out Mary, even though the catholics do worship her (praying to somebody is worshipping).

The response of Jesus to the above is for the wise to think about;

Jesus did not refute Alah's favors on him. He stated that he never told anyone other than what was commanded him, by Allah. He said when Allah raised him up, he was able to have any knowledge of what earthly men say about him and the conducts that resulted from his presence on earth. Please note that Jesus never said that he died before saying that Allah raised him. Jesus continued that Allah is the Only entity that was able to know what was going on.

Jesus thenstated what he told his community what he was; A prophet to you oh children of Israel. My Lord and your Lord is Allah (One Lord God, not gods). Worship Him and associate nothing at all with Him. We can see traces of this statement, if we search the Bible; Old Testament of Moses, and then New Testament of Jesus, and even the Psalm of David that is sandwiched between them (in essence, no prophet, I repeat it, again that has the gut to say he is god or partnership with God).

Jesus then speaks about Allah's Justice in the ability of everlasting punishment of the guilty, and the immensed Mercy of His Forgiveness. It is clear from the verse, that no one but Allah has these qualities and abilities, by His Own Wills, alone.


After the statement of Jesus, Allah praises him for being a speaker of truth and a true slave.And then permits him and those companions (awariyun, etc) to enter paradise. Jesus will enter paradise with those of people who followed his direction. Just like every prophet, Jesus prophetic time covers from the announcement of his prophetic mesage and ending at when Muhammad (AS) started his and the world is aware of it. With the Arabs, and the mideastern people, that was very almost immediate. Later to the far away people, etc.

Jesus role is clearly stated. Hence, will Allah completely forgive the Christians? I have asked myself the same question in the past. And my answer came in the same way the answer of the number of people in the cave, is provided in the Quran. Now we must notice that many verses of the Quran speak about the nonmuslims going to hell to be punished. We must see that Jesus statement indicted the Christians. From it, we see that they disobey him. The disobedience to Allah's laws passed on to people from the prophet is not without adequate consequent.

The Jews will get punished for not primarily believing the prophethood of Jesus, hence they did not follow him. They and the Christians, do not follow Jesus, hence they will be punished for not aceepting and following the prophethood of Muhammad.

What will be the consequences of disbelief except there is punishment for disbelief? Those who disbelieved the prophets will be punish, inshaAllah. Allah does not change His process. He does not fail in His promise. Yes the Christians will be punished.

@Davidylan: The verse 71 is put in contest if you have to read this piece through! And if you want somebody to help your christian heart understand what Quran says, I will do it.

19:52
Muhsin Khan: And We called him from the right side of the Mount, and made him draw near to Us for a talk with him [Musa (Moses)].


19:53
Muhsin Khan: And We bestowed on him his brother Harun (Aaron), (also) a Prophet, out of Our Mercy.


19:54
Muhsin Khan: And mention in the Book (the Quran) Isma'il (Ishmael). Verily! He was true to what he promised, and he was a Messenger, (and) a Prophet.


19:55
Muhsin Khan: And he used to enjoin on his family and his people As-Salat (the prayers) and the Zakat, and his Lord was pleased with him.



19:56
Muhsin Khan: And mention in the Book (the Quran) Idris (Enoch).Verily! He was a man of truth, (and) a Prophet.



19:57
Muhsin Khan: And We raised him to a high station.


19:58
Muhsin Khan: Those were hey unto whom Allah bestowed His Grace from among the Prophets, of the offspring of Adam, and of those whom We carried (in the ship) with Nuh (Noah), and of the offspring of Ibrahim (Abraham) and Israel and from among those whom We guided and chose. When the Verses of the Most Beneficent (Allah) were recited unto them, they fell down prostrating and weeping.



19:59
Muhsin Khan: Then, there has succeeded them a posterity who have given up As-Salat (the prayers) [i.e. made their Salat (prayers) to be lost, either by not offering them or by not offering them perfectly or by not offering them in their proper fixed times, etc.] and have followed lusts. So they will be thrown in Hell.



19:60
Muhsin Khan: Except those who repent and believe (in the Oneness of Allah and His Messenger Muhammad SAW), and work righteousness. Such will enter Paradise and they will not be wronged in aught.


19:61
Muhsin Khan: (They will enter) 'Adn (Eden) Paradise (everlasting Gardens), which the Most Beneficent (Allah) has promised to His slaves in the unseen: Verily! His Promise must come to pass.



19:62
Muhsin Khan: They shall not hear therein (in Paradise) any Laghw (dirty, false, evil vain talk), but only Salam (salutations of peace). And they will have therein their sustenance, morning and afternoon. [See (V.40:55)].



19:63
Muhsin Khan: Such is the Paradise which We shall give as an inheritance to those of Our slaves who have been Al-Muttaqun (pious and righteous persons - See V.2:2).


19:64
Muhsin Khan: And we (angels) descend not except by the Command of your Lord (O Muhammad SAW). To Him belongs what is before us and what is behind us, and what is between those two, and your Lord is never forgetful,


19:65
Muhsin Khan: Lord of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, so worship Him (Alone) and be constant and patient in His worship. Do you know of any who is similar to Him? (of course none is similar or coequal or comparable to Him, and He has none as partner with Him). [There is nothing like unto Him and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer].


19:66
Muhsin Khan: And man (the disbeliever) says: "When I am dead, shall I then be raised up alive?"


19:67
Muhsin Khan: Does not man remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?


19:68
Muhsin Khan: So by your Lord, surely, We shall gather them together, and (also) the Shayatin (devils) (with them), then We shall bring them round Hell on their knees.

19:69
Muhsin Khan: Then indeed We shall drag out from every sect all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against the Most Beneficent (Allah).


19:70
Muhsin Khan: Then, verily, We know best those who are most worthy of being burnt therein.


19:71
Muhsin Khan: There is not one of you but will pass over it (Hell); this is with your Lord; a Decree which must be accomplished.



19:72
Muhsin Khan: Then We shall save those who use to fear Allah and were dutiful to Him. And We shall leave the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers, etc.) therein (humbled) to their knees (in Hell).


19:73
Muhsin Khan: And when Our Clear Verses are recited to them, those who disbelieve (the rich and strong among the pagans of Quraish who live a life of luxury) say to those who believe (the weak, poor companions of Prophet Muhammad SAW who have a hard life): "Which of the two groups (i.e. believers and disbelievers) is best in (point of) position and as regards station (place of council for consultation)."



19:74
Muhsin Khan: And how many a generation (past nations) have We destroyed before them, who were better in wealth, goods and outward appearance?


19:75
Muhsin Khan: Say (O Muhammad SAW) whoever is in error, the Most Beneficent (Allah) will extend (the rope) to him, until, when they see that which they were promised, either the torment or the Hour, they will come to know who is worst in position, and who is weaker in forces. [This is the answer for the Verse No.19:73]


19:76
Muhsin Khan: And Allah increases in guidance those who walk aright [true believers in the Oneness of Allah who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden), and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)]. And the righteous good deeds that last, are better with your Lord, for reward and better for resort.