₦airaland Forum

@Davidylan: Re: Jesus Vs Muhammad Using The Bible And The Quran
« #31 on: Yesterday at 04:37:45 PM »

This is not a fact but mohammad's fantasy.

Who was the last prophet? Oh, I get it; Moses, right? I guess Jesus was only god on earth like other (gods on earth; the similarity is striking - The himdus have their hindu figurines, the Buhddish have their Buddah statute and the boxs and gongs that use as the focal point of their chants, the others have their symbolds that they carry around, and of course the sihks have their wrist bracelets among other things). The Christians have their crosses. Some with a man hanging or just plain. You see that idolatry comes in different forms. What they all have in common is that physical representation that they so much crave! Without it, they are nothing.

I wonder if Moses ministered to the people outside his bloodline; the Children of Israel. I also wonder if Jesus minstered to the people outside his bloodline, the Children of Israel? Afterall, from his own mouth, the was not sent but to the house of Israel. Maybe more like the lost sheep among them. I wonder how an Ijebu man fits the lost sheep of the house of Israel?

And to those Christians who said Jesus was sent to the rest of the world, if I believe Jesus and believe you at the same time, then one party is actually a con artist, a liar. Not a single Roman or Greek was admitted into the rank of the followership of Jesus. I wonder where Mr. Saul, ok Paul came about changing Jesus ministerial scope? The same Jesus who spent all the time with his inner circle, and never once told his people that his mercy or mercy reached beyond the Israelites. The same Jesus who never received a visitor except Israelites, his people.

A last prophet must have something everlasting that continue to be as pure today and till end of time, as it was pure when he was on earth. Muhammad has that in the form of revelation, Quran. No one has this honor, not Jesus with so many versions of the New Testament. Compare Catholics and Protestants Bible and see what am talking about. And definitely not Moses with the many Torahs, and other Books like Mishnas. I know about the Jews.

Muhammad's companions/followers in his lifetime consisted of black men and women, from Africa, freemen and slaves, Arabs, wealthy and poor, Persians, Europeans, Jews etc. No group of mankind that was represented. Tell me about the tribes and bloodlines of Jesus, apart from Children of Israel?

Neither does the Christian God have biological children in the sense of the word. But He has divine children like us.

In the sense of the word you are on a make up bing. Lies and more lies.


[Quote ]
Surah 19:71 says ALL MUSLIMS will end in hell anyway so what really is the above nonsense?

[/quote]Ol boy, you dey lie. Read the verse again, and produce the word, Muslim or Mumin from it. I wanna see it, even though I have explained it to you, many time. You haven't got it. I think you will see, if you read many verses before it, then this verse and some few after it, you will get the full gist of it; its talking about humans. That includes Muslims and non-muslims. I know that Pilgrim.1 who understood zero have lied to you. You failed to verify her lies. The next time I read your piece about this, I will quote for your edifice, verses 65 through 76, so that you can see that you fell for the okedoke of ms. Pilgrim.

Hence your piece is nonsensical.


[Quote]
Essentially what islam is . . . a direct affront to the Lordship of Jesus Christ and nothing more.

I wonder if there is a lord that calls another entity Lord is truly a Lord? Its not possible, because Allah never have called anothe entity Allah. Eloi never have called another entity Eloi.

Even the prophets have never called another entity what they are; were there two Moseses, or Jesuses, or Davids, etc? The Muslims know that there was one single Muhammad (AS), the last prophet.


[Quote]
No we are not servants of the demon called allah.[/quote]Demon, when beginning of Quran starts with seeking refuge against the accursed demon/devil/satan.

You David, sir is not making any sense. This is the biggest set of nonsense.


[Quote]
Because you dont understand it does not mean it doesnt make sense.[/quote]You can accept this off the wall idea, that is never ever a possibility to be possible. You are even arguing that he died already,. The difference about the muslim opinion and that of the Christian is the time that death occurs. The muslims say that he will die for the very first time when he comes back, desending from heaven. We both agree that he is not beyond death. The fact that death could reach him, speaks about his humanness. He said with his own mouth that he is a prophet, a son of man. You forgot that you said that he is David's son.

He ate, drank, etc, like human. Have you seen a person using bathroom saying he is God Almighty and you are gullible enough to believe him? David you make up stuffs too much. Regardless of understanding a bad premise, it is still a bad premise. Is there a need for God Almight Who at His Own Will, exclusively can forgive, show mercy or meter just justice to have a son? A person who is imperfect? A person who didnt know the time of the hour, and confessed that Only God knows it? A person who was so hungry that he became very angry that he cursed an innocent tree? A person who was controlled by satan, and tempted by it in three different occasions? David if you still believe this person is god or perfect and or son of god, then I am the king of cheyenne!


[Quote ]
Where are they? you've been promising to "come back" since.
[quote][/quote]Please define miracle. Then give example of miracle that Jesus performed that still remain, today. Finally if I give you some miracles of Muhammad (AS), will you become Muslim? There is a company in Switzerland built on the very verse from the Quran, talking about sweat from the body and sight. Joseph's clothing, the sweat in it was able to by the amount of love that his father Jacob had for him, his eyes can see, again.

Further is there a miracle equal to that of going to heaven alive, body and soul, and returning in one single night?

@Bawomolo: And you are just as guilty, even though you dont call your Atheist/Humanist society or clique a religion. Huxley2 and co, also do attach religious people, hence none of you is better, except that you are not honest about your position.

If those who attack each other or one another are trying to wrestle superiority of their position from the other parties, then Atheist and Agnostics, etc are showing their superiority colors, too.

@ The poster; Thanks man. Alhamdulillah Shukrullillah. Subhannallah. Laailallah illallah. Laa ilaha illa ant. Subhanaka, ini kuntum mina dhaulimiin.
@Davidylan: « #1 on: Today at 07:16:03 PM »  

surah 19:19:68 And, by thy Lord, verily We shall assemble them and the devils, then We shall bring them, crouching, around hell.

Who are the ompanions of the Devil, those who will be assembled with him, for being disobedient and hard hearted? The Non Muslims. Allah keeps His promise. unlike others, who have no authority or power to do anything. Allah says he completed His favor and chose Islam as a religion for mankind.
There is a verse in the Quran that says who ever comes with anything other than Islam, it will be reject and not be accepted from him. This clearly shows that those who will be assembled with the devil, and will be punished are those whose deeds, religions and ways of worship are rejected and not accepted from them by Allah. Read and think about it, for a minute.

19:69 Then We shall pluck out from every sect whichever of them was most stubborn in rebellion to the Beneficent.

Sects; from the rank of the Christians we have Aladuras, Celestial people, The Fire Mountain people, the Anglicans, The Episcopalians, The catholics, The Ethiopian Orthodox, The Coptics, The Greek Orthodox, The Armanians, The Eastern orthodox, The Russian Orthodox, The Southern baptist, The Mega-Churches, The TV Evangelists, The 7th day Adventists, The Mormons, The Jehovah Witnesses and others.

And I dont know anything about Christianity. David help your "egbon" about the tons and tons of sects in Christianity.  I have not even done any research, except that these are just what I remembered. What about the Jews; The orthodox group has a huge number of sects. THen you have the reformed, the conservatives, withjust as many sects. These are what Allah mentioned in the verse above, along with the other disbelievers; Atheists, Agnostics, Hindu to name a few.

19:70 And surely We are Best Aware of those most worthy to be burned therein.

Allah by His favor through the religion of Islam, only true Muslims will be excluded and spared of any time in Hell fire. Others; Christians, Jews, Hindus and others will have to go to Hell.

19:71 There is not one of you but shall approach it. That is a fixed ordinance of thy Lord.

No one of you (humans; Muslims and non muslims. While the muslims approached it by escaping the punishment in it by crossing safely on the Sirat, the non Muslims will fall in it or will be herded into it like cattles to the grazing ground or water. Which is the way you want to have it; fail to cross the bridge and fall or herded?

One more favour from your dear allah . . . you're going to hell. Its fixed.

You made a statement which has no proof. The whole of Quran is laced with mercy and fogiveness towards the Muslims. Is the way of your lord forgiveness while he punishes you in the lake of fire? Oh, am sorry, omo boy, your lords I should have said since you worship 3 lords

One died on the cross according to you.

The other is a ghost.


And the last is a father that sleeps with evetry woman, since all of you claim that you are his sons and daughters.

@Davidylan: Stop it, man. And have you performed the experiment of water murkiness/unclearness/darkness at the time of sunset? I am looking at the ocean, and its bay. It will get dark soon. And the darkness come upon the surface of the water, meaning no abundant of light from te sun will hit its surface. I will look at its murkiness, andjust smile how wrong you are to have denied a ting that you can see, at the time it is gien to occur.

Allah says in the Quran that believers shoud enter Islam, fully. This means all the nuance and cultural and tribal opinions, traditional deeds and fetishes that are incompartable to Quran and Sunna/Hadith should be discarded. A true believer will adopt Islamic "culture." The culture of islam, is neither arabic, or any other group's culture. It is a blend of all that is good in mankind and there is no direct or indirect opposition with Islam, and it totally agrees with all aspects of goodliness, which is in truth Islam.

Since this religion is focus singly to the worship of Allah in the way of Muhammad (AS), using Quran as our only guide, with explanation and example through hadith and sunna, it is foundamentally wrong for a 3 pronouncements of "I divorce you" in a single occasion to mean that you have divorced your spouse 3 times. What happens f you say it, 10 times in this single occasion? Would you have divorced her 10 times, too?

To be able to divorce your wife at all, you have to be married to her in the first place. Marriage most definitely comes before divorce. To divorce her three times in one single occasion, is impossible. What is possible however is a single divorce, in any single occasin. You could have said it 1 time, or 2 or the 3 times in question, or even more times, say 4 or 5 or 6 and even more. If it is said in one occasion or a day or period, before remarrying her again, it is still one single divorce.

If their marriage to each other had never experienced a previous divorce, the pronouncement of devorce by the husband, regardless of how many times it is said, before they remarry again, it all stand for the first time divorce between them. The husband and wife should not sleep with each other, until they reconcile. The time of waiting between marriages is known as Iddah (Iddat). The period of iddah is (90 days or 3 moon cycles). If they reconcile within the period of iddah, the husband does not have to pay dowry, since he is the only man who is permitted to have her in marriage, still.

There coming back together in reconciliation is the beginning of a new marriage, say the second marriage to each other. If something else brings up a situation where the condition calls for a new pronouncement round of "I divorce you," even if it is said a trillion times before they come back and reconcile again as husband and wife, it will be a single divorce, but a second time that they are divorcing each other. It is not possible that a man and a woman marries and divorces a trillion times and for the woman still remain in the age of "marriage."

Finally, if they come back again within the period of iddah and become husband and wife, it will be the third time that they are marrying each other. It is also the last time that they can marry each other without the woman marrying another man. Now if the man after divorcing the woman twice and remarrying her twice, making the third time going on the marrying cycle, he should know by then that that wa his last chance alone with her without having somebody to challengehim on her.

He had dock paying dowry again and the third time by seeking reconciliation with the two consecutive periods of iddah. The woman had accepted him and returned to him in marriage. If this knuckle head of a husband have not learnt that there is no use in divorcing her, since he always wanted her back, anyways, then it is no wonder that Allah has put a limit to how many times a man can hold exclusivity of seeking the hand of a woman in marriage to 3, before the equation allows another man to have a chance to seek her in marriage, without the foolish husband who is now former husband" having no chance to stop the intention of this man.

The third divorce means there had been ends to 3 consecutives marriages without any other man marrying her in the cycles of relationship between them as husband and wife. If the period of iddah was over in any of the endings of marriages after the pronouncements of the "I divorce you", statements the husband will have to start all over again to marry the woman, including giving her dowry, and of course the nika ceremony.

Now after the end of the third marriage by the pronouncement of the divorce statement, the wife will only wait for the period of iddah before she entertains and hopefully accepts marriage from a new husband altogether. The old husband is not allowed to marry her consecutively for the fourth time without any man becoming her husband. The legality of such marriage to a new husband, is that the old husband can not arrange for a man to marry her, only to fulfill the ruling on marriage and divorce, and hoping that he will divorce her without consumating the marriage and as soon as he wishes. Any such arrangement is going against the rule sets by Allah. It is a sinful thing, a sign of weak iman, a disobedience.

Marriage to a new husband must be the mutual willingness of the ex-wife and the new suitor. Such a marriage must follow all the laws and rules that marriage must follow. That includes sex, possibility of divorce and remarrying within the period of iddah, to the same full 3 times in a row, as long as the remarrying is within the period of Iddah. If the period is over before the husband asked his wife to come back, then the first husband can approach her. So do other men. But when you see a muslim approach a woman, and you approach her and she says she is talking to the first man, it is your duty in islam to leave her alone, until you are informed that she is not being intended.

Unfortunately, sound knowledge is very expensive and time consuming. Those people who make up things that are mostly cultural and try to marry it into Islam, are wrong, if Islam's jurispudence on such a matter in question is clear and known. If it is not known because of lack of complete knowledge of the issue/topic, please know that a good understanding of three times divorced means three times married prior to the third time divorce. What agrees with a pure heart, in means, process and in ending is Islamic. There is no way something shaddy can occur in a pure Islamic protocol. Read your Quran and Hadith, again and observe the Sunnah.

Will a man spend 3 times the amount of time he normally uses in the shower and announces that the particular shower is three showers just because of the amount of time? I have a Fulani from Mauritania who divorced his wife. He was telling me what his "sheik" in the home country told him, since he said something in Pular meaning "I give you back your neck."

The sheik told him that the saying amounts to three divorces. My frined is a Ph D. candidate in New York City. I was shocked at the statement, how a statement said to end a first marriage will have the gravity of ending other two marriages that have not happened, yet?How could this so called sheik make such an unsubstantiate statement, and the Ph. D. candidate accepting it as a fact?

This is the same with what you said the hausas have. Knowledge is with Allah alone. And those Who He loves see and understand. If a man were to say I divoced you 500 times because of his anger with his wife, will it mean that he had been married 500 times and then divoced 500 times?

You are the MD. You should know about DNA. Why ask lay persons? Answer it if you know.

@Bawomolo: I only respond to your post before my earlier entry. I wonder by my response why your post did not address the first post of the thread, since you are an atheist? Or do you actually believe in God, not in god, which could be anything, borne out of personal or communial designation?

Allah is God. The Truth and Godship and Lordship cover all, those who accept Him and those who knowingly rject Him and those who out of pure ignorance denies His existence. While Jesus, Holy Ghost and Father of the Christian faith, Humanity, Nature of the Atheist and Agnostics, Buhddah of the Buhddist, and Rabbi, etc of the Jews, and other "deities" of other religions, are gods. None of the deities that falls in the god category, have any power, completely alone, in the position of true master.

Now go back and read the post that started the thread. Respond to it, with fullness of good analytical mind. You are an atheist, respond to a piece challenging the conscience of your group. The piece is stating that your conscience at best is half awake. It is hoping that it can be shocked to full consciousness.

Do I believe that every child is born muslim? I want you to look at the fetus in the womb. How it crutches together. I want you to notice the shape, paying attention to the tilting of the head forward, the folding of the arms and the tucking of the legs. You know what is called a fetus position when adult is lying down? Remember these positions, both of the baby in the womb and the adult lying in bed. Compare them to the position of muslim in postration during prayers.

Interestingly, no person can sleep for an extended period of time, keeping the body perfectly straight. But people can sleep deeper and for a longer period, if the body is crutched together, almost to that exact position and shape as in muslim prostration during prayers. The shape of the contour/Humps/Creases of the right ear, if given critical look you will see Allah spelled out; Longest line as Alif, and two smaller linesjoined together as the two following Lam, lam, and the last hump before the ear opening, as the Ha.

Let me answer your question: Yes I believe we are all born Muslims. My father actually reinforced my continuation in the religion of islam. While your parents, if not Muslims helped your being what you are, an Atheist. Inidentally, my mother was a christian, until just few years ago. She is now a muslim. Alhamdulillah. You live in Chicago. Am sure you have seen yanks, white, black and otherwho have no pimary contact with Muslim, not by marriage or the usual silly point of arguments that the Muslim haters give for the rapid spread. These yanks are turning to Islam. We have a slew of them in North East.

Finally, my dear wife Zainab is from a home where Islam as a religion is more remote that a white man being a member of a black african family by blood and not just through marriage.

@Huxley2: I bruised your emotion, uh? Too bad. You think I will listen to your silly instructions? I like you as a person. But I abhor your atheist mindset. Was I ever educated, you ask? Yes. That will shot you up now that you have the answer. Your asking off the wall questions deserves the exact answers I gave.

Now what is the testbook definition of God? I want to see how smart you are. Huxley2, its late in England. Its almost 3 am, Saturday Night. Go to bed.

@Bawomolo: You wanted a scientific proof, from the informations, the signs in Quran, the verses revealed to Muhammad (AS), over 1400 years ago, you have at least amply amount of currently acceptable scientific facts. Read the entry that started the thread, again. All you have focused on, after all of that is the unwaranted statement from Noetic, Mr. Christian. Is that all you can do, using the envious statement of the defender of the cross, the neo-crusader ready to bomb the muslims, to divert the undeniable facts that the writer have presented?

I always liked your argument. But in this case, I am very disappointed. Not that my opinion matters much, but can you poke holes or a hole in the presentation, as soon as you can? Don't be deluded by the illusion of the time and the society that you live in. Freedom has its limit. No one should have the freedom to tell blatant lie. No one should have the freedom to deny the truth when it is stirring them right in the face!

Am sure Huxley2 would have a different approach, rather than dismissing it, off handedly.

Islam is more than a single tribe. No tribe on earth can claim this noble religion for itself. No people can claim Muhammad for themself. Makkan or Madinan can not.

On one hand Allah warns about the Big sins. But also the little sins are not without its graveness. However, a person who observes Salah on time is a person that I will not outright call a "disbeliever!" Proofs; Read Surah Baqarah, verse 3 is an indication of the importance of Salah. Muhammad (AS) states that the difference between a believer (muslim, even though I agree that it is Mumin) is Salah. When a person performs Salah, it is an indication that there is belief in his heart.

I will illustrate the mercy of Allah through Muhammad (AS) by a situation in Madina, during the lifetime of our nobliest of prophets (AS). A man used to drink and the other companions asked the prophet, after the commandment that alcohol is forbidden, if they could  weep him. The prophet said no. In time they came back and asked the same question, again of the same man. The answer was the same. They came back, again, until the prophet (as) told them that that person loved Allah and His Messenger. This was the reply that they got, which finally put the whole issue of intending to weep him to rest.

Further, a man in Madina used to be a very bad person, with all kind of evil actions. But when this man died, they did not report his death to the prophet, for the people did not want the prophet to go and conduct his funeral prayer. However, Jibril came to inform the prophet (AS) that he must do so. When he performed the funeral, he asked te people why he was informed of a death in Madina, except Malaika Jibril came to tell him? They related the evil acts of the man, who was not really known to the prophet. Though a companion (RA), but was not a close companion known to the beloved prophet.

Muhammad (AS) was curious and wanted to know what was so special about this man that the Arch-Angel Jibril (AS) had to come to inform him of his death and the commandment from Allah to perform the Janazah prayer on him. His wife came to the prophet in the company of the esteemed sahabah (RA). The prophet asked her about the late man; his nature, etc. His widow informed the prophet that though the man was very hard hearted, having a rough nature by his toughness, etc, but when the month of Ramadan comes in, he used to recluse himself by being secluded in his residence, etc, praying supplicating and asking Allah for forgiveness, with letting his tongue dry up from the worship of the Most merciful and Oft-Forgiving.

The man's action is a culmunation of fear of Allah and longing for His Love and Mercy and Forgiveness. We must never forget that in Surah Al Maidah that Allah says that if people do not make sins and seek forgiveness from Him, He is capable of producing other people, (Americans and people in the New World whose immediate bloodlines are not islamic, and people like my darling Zainab who is the first of her family to be Muslim)anew who will become Muslim, loving Allah much and Allah loving them back in return.

For me and in my little understnding, the fact that a people are by head count are muslims do not indicate understanding of Islam. The newest member of the Muslim community could be by Allah's permission a person that will be immensely endowed with sound islamic knowledge. A knowledge that is not put into practice, for me is no knowledge, but a burden, like the burden to donkey which carries a load of good books, and it is the least in knowledge.

Lets pray to Allah for ourselves and our brothers and sisters who are deficient in whatever aspect of islam that they are deficient in. Let pray for others who are not muslims and from our bloodlines to accept Islam before it is too late. lets pray for our community members, and indeed the whole of mankind, that allah open their breasts to Islam. I know that many will not accept, but there is no sin from us, if we wish mankind well.

Allah may reward us for our lofty goal. I remember a friend telling a story from the time of Musa (AS). A woman was barren, and wanted a cild, at least. So she asked Musa to ask Allah for her. Allah told Musa that He did not record children for her. So that you may know the Mercy of Allah is immense, and that Allah will not change the condition of a people until they begin the process of hanging their own condition.

So Musa told this woman that Allah said that He did not record any children for the woman. The woman was inspired by Allah to tell Musa that he should tell Allah that if He Allah gives Children to this barren slave, which Illah will ask Him, why He permits her to have any chidren. When Musa told his Lord, even though Allah knew the end of His decision, before revealing it. He told Musa that he should tell the woman, who is a true believer, having all her trust in Allah that she will not only have a child, but Allah has recorded 20, in her account.

Such is the greatness and mercy of Allah on believers. We should not forget the situation of Umar bin Khattab conversion to Islam. The prophet prayed that Allah blesses Islam with oneof the two Umars. Allah knows the heart of bin Khattab (RA), who became Muslim, at the end of the day, while he woke up with the intension of killing the prophet (AS). Yet the other Umar was Umar Abu Hisham commonly known as Abu Jahal, who died as a disbeliever in the Battle of Badr. he was a relation of the prophet.

Can we not be hopeful that Allah forgives all sins? I remember a Khutbar that I heard on the day of Id Adha. The Imam in Brooklyn's Abu Hanifah's Masjid, expressed the importance of slaughter during this occasion. Though it is a sunnah, but is a sunnah made compulsory on believers. It is a sunnah in the footstep of Ibrahim (AS).

The Imam said that if a person slaughter an animal, Allah will forgive him/her a sin that he/she might have surely be casted into the fire of hell to be purified before going to Paradise. The Mercy of Allah covers all, and even allows disbelievers to tirn yo belief.

@Huxley2: I asked what happened to just "Huxley," you didn't give me a reply. I still need to know. Enquiring mind wanna know. I am sure my statement s often way over your head.

Now, have you heard the term "missing link," before? Forget the scientific possibility of it or lack of it. But its is an expression that is commonly used by the evolutionist, Atheist to "proof" if only that it never have passed the muster of hypothetical opinion, that there is no creation, but all things happened through the first action known as "Big Bang theory (to me it is an unsubstantiative hypothesis)." Now that I have reminded you of how "missing link" as a term came about, I will try to address your concern, stated in your post.

I need to remind you of the name Derwin and his fake theory of evolution which he was trying to proof with the Survival of the fittest thesis. I wonder what happened to him, particularly, since he would have been one of possible "proof" of his evolutionary mumbo jumbo if one he were to be alive, today. Thank God the Creator of all. He allowed Derwin to exist until the usual term He gave him; from birth as a child from his mother's womb, to old age, when he died.

Now then, is the individual who proposed a possible evolution of species, a Biologist? I guess, not! From the rank of the Biologists, you have esteemed persons, who do not subscribe to "evolution" as the way of beings. So your trying to argue that Biological scientists accept evolutional concept, and rejects Creationism is untrue.

The Bioogical community is not all in agreement on this. Those who are supporting evolution are often atheist, agnostics, and at best have no desire ask how is it possible that a simple object, a particle without any significant mass, but only a position in an empty space can produce such a varied and complex dynamically vast objects; some physical only, others chemical only, others Biological and Physical and chemical, all at the same time. Man is all of the above. So are aminals, trees, etc.

And the score is not settled on the evolutionary debate, either. Afterall, there is no trace that Knowledge is complete and nothing else to be known or discovered, in the future generations. Or are you sure that human race is settled on evolution against creation, and no more knowledge will be discovered about anything?

Now, tell me who is benighted? You who lashed on to a rudementary concept, as that of evolution, without a single proof, except that you are happy to be on the wrong side of history? Or me, who have analysed myslef as a being and look at my place within my society, my enviroment, and arrive at a convincing point; there must be a Being, greater than humans in control of all things? Talk to me, man.

And Moses is dead. We know that he liberated and saved the lives of more Jews than Jesus did. Does it make Moses less of a prophet than Jesus because he died? What about how the Jews, the holders of the laws and salvation is through them, look at these two men, Jesus and Moses? Will the opinion of the Jews count? Am asking you, Todak.

Abraham is dead. He was the Friend of God. And every religion, Judaism, Christianity and Islam is always wanting to be affiliated with him. He is dead, I said, Todak. Why is Christianity wants to be known as one of the Abrahamic religions? Please tell me who is greater between Abraham and Jesus, even now that you say Christianity is Abrahamic religion?

Finally, John the son of Zachariah baptized Jesus. John was beheaded. Who is greater, the one who baptoized or the one who was baptized? I hope you have your thinking cap on. These questions will betray your ignorance. Rather your blind faith, without any logical explanation.

Who is stronger the person that a whole mob of people killed or the person who died on his death bed, at home among his family? This person was revered so much that when he was alive his enemies could not dare to kill him with all their weaponry. They resulted into using poison which he live with without immediate effect on him for many years, before he died. This same person, his close companion, Umar bin Khattab (ra) said that if he ever hear anyone says that he had died, he personally will behead him. He was only brought back to his senses by another companion, Abu Bakr (ra) reciting the verse predicting his death, from the Quran. Read Surah Al Imran.

I will not sppoon feed you my man. But when you spew lies, if I see it, and am not too busy, I will respond yo it. Tell me who is greater or who is less, if you are their Creator? Stop acting childish and intentionally lying about the truth. Unless you don't know. Then just say so and somebody will educate you, inshaAllah.

Islam is not in lock-in steps with any religion. The Christian for example, have 3 gods as they express it in Trinity. Though the word trinity is not in any part of the Bible. We also know that the Jews do not believe in it, yet they read the same Bible. The Christian reads everything and believs in part; the New Testament. The Jews read only the Old testament of Moses and the Psalm of David.

We have to ask ourselves how the christian comes up with Trinity while timid enough to not have it in their Holy Book? But thats beside the question.

Muslim do not have stand up comical "testimony" that you have in Christianity, as if you are in the English House of Commons, taking the PM to task. The fact that Islam is different in Belief of One Complete God, without any partner, all His Angels, Prophets and Pure Books as in the form it was revealed when the prophets were the costodians of them, etc show that Islam copies from no one!

Wy should it especialy when it is the final and complete religion to mankind, the way to receive mercy and forgiveness and attain piety from Allah? Why should we have yor stereotypical "Christian testimony?" Ae we Christians? No.

@Todak: The Quran specified two festivals for us: Id Fitr, the end of the fasting Month. And Id Adha, the day after Arafat. Read about them in Baqarah, Surah Hajj,etc.

The birthday of Muhammad (as) was on a Monday in the year of the defeat of the Elephant mounted army of Abraha, fom Yemen. Throughout the life of Muhammad, before his prophethood and during his prophethood, there was no birthday celebration for him. Notice that i only quoted a day of the week and a year, but no date of the month and no month either as I presented an indication of his birth.

Incidentally, Islamic calender started after Islam was already 13 years old in Makka, and at the beginning of the migration to Madina. Finally, Allah says in the Quran that believers should obey Allah and His Messenger (AS). He our Lord, also states in addition that whatever Muhammad gives you take, and whatever he forbids you, son't do it. Further Allah states that Muhammad delivered the message to mankind, in full by surah Nasr where one is to expect the large crowd convertion into Islam and expect forgiveness when asked from Allah by those who are true in their belief, not additing anything to Allah in worship.

When you read the Quran from the face of it, and you don't have to have engage in personal interpretation before you see that it is clear that there is no birthday celebrations. Finally, it is the ahadith and sunnah that make the verses of Quran very clear. They agree with each other. Unlike other books and methodology where the book says this and in another part says completely opposite, with saying that it abrogated the earlier statement and then the action of the people is completely different, still.

You cant be a god and still have to beg another God. If that happens, then you are not a God. And those who believe that you are a God must be gullible. Completely wrong. We call those people "disbelievers." The lack good faith in God, hence they have another god with Him!

@Huxley2: What happened to simply; Huxley? But I have a question for you and all the evolutionists: The missing link did not have a clear indication of a single line of what it evolved into. Or what it involved from. Why not man?

I was thinking that they will have a half man and half whatever! All I saw was a fluke. What happened man? Evolutionists are losing it. When you have a a distinctively pure fraction of something and then the remaining percentage/fraction of the specie is still of the original, indicating a changing proess call me, man.

Let me give you an example; you see how day evolves to night. Or night evolving to day, by just simply the amount of light available, in the process, thats what I want to see. And don't worry your head about the muslims, by the assumed onslaughts from the Christians. If you add the Jews and all others including your atheist group, Islam guiding the conduct of the Muslims, the true muslims, by Allah's help will emerge victorious.

We are neither be benighted nor deluded. We are clear and determined on a resolve. There is a God you know. And He is sufficient as Supporter for the muslims.

well, that is your own point of view, i may have portray  him bad, but all the references where from where?

I wonder if the muslims can use the same bolded phrase to simply blow off the critics of the Quran, Hadith, etc? "Well, that is your point of view" is so cliche and actually a copout. It brings to mind lack of evidential material to produce a substantiative argument for or against a position.

And have i not provided the vices, are they not true, fellis be sincere, and just like David had asked, what mean of spread?

And I have asked David to tell what means of spread used on Ijebu-Ode people or the Ibadans, and others of Yoruba land? I have asked the same question of David, many times without a response from him. Can you tell me how Ijebu-Ode people became muslims? Thats my father's home town.

Hmmmmmmm, i will quite agree with you but then, i only want you muslims to know that you highly esteemed prophet is not as good as proclaimed, and the quran confirms that.

Easier said than done. You have not given us a single verse from the Quran that says that he is not "as good as proclaimed". Can you please provide a verse, instead of your empty rhethorics.

I wonder proclaimed him "esteemed?" I said its the Author of Quran, Allah! And where is he proclaimed to be esteemed? In the Quran, by the Author. Many verses, and I will provide a single verse that mention esteem; read verse 4 of Surah Alam Nashra. Read the Quran, and see several verses, talking in good light about the prophet (AS). Then bring me a single verse from the Quran that talks about any vices you have said that he has.

and do you actually have the incorruptible bible, i will love to have one too

I have better idea for you: Produce a single Bible that will contain the same exact "Books, Chapters, Verses, words, and letters" that Catholics can use in their Churches and also that the Protestants can use in their Churches. I dare you to produce it. And if its not good enough for both sects; Roman catholics and Protestants of Europe, then thats your answer, corruption and more corrution!

You know, if a person ask Muslim the same question, he will take out a Quran that both Shia and Sunni sects will agree upon. Word for word, sentence for sentence, chapter for chapter and even in arrangements and pronounciations! Can you produce something like that of the Bble that is universally accepted to all Christians?

well, honestly i have not,

Honestly, there lies your dishonesty. I know, you are free to interprete corruption as uncorrupted!

which contradictions, the bible was written by different men and there are  bound to be textual, methodogical,seasonal and indiviual difference, way of expression, but an inspiration of God, and since we alll agree it was written by men, your so called contradictition is nullified. But the quran was directly dictated to muhammad yet full of contradictions, have you also not notice that?

He asked, which contradiction. Then he "contradicted" himself by presenting arguments about textual, methodogical and individual difference. Seeing how incorrect he is, he quickly blame it on the men who wrote it! Are men perfect? And they produce something without any flaw? This guy does not know how to argue, if his faith depends on it!

Can we compare the taste of the broth of a good cook, with the broth cooked by many chefs, taking turns in stirring, adding ingredients? Never, because each cook will confess that the outcome is not remotely near to what their individually prepared broth normally taste like. No wonder the expression; too many cooks spoil the broth! Your Bible with its too many human writers (is spoiled and its words are not in the original places) is like a broth, cooked by too many cooks, the taste is always compromised, spoiled.

well, i do not know or see any discrepancies, and if you believe God is too perfect to make a mistake, do you believe he could  keep his three previous books?

If you worship a God that is not too perfect that He is prone to making mistakes, what makes Him different than humans, who are struggling and trying to aspire to perfection? The God that humans can discover that He has made mistake is no God! I wonder if you know what you are saying about your Christian God. For sure you are not talking about Eloi that Moses worshipped and Jesus made prayers to!

And as to the 3 books that you mentioned; Torah, Psalm and Gospel in the Bible, you will need to read the Quran to see that Allah said that they are corrupt, while He promised to Safeguard the Quran from ever having any corruption enter it! Allah says to show how corrupt the Bible is, that the adherents divide among themselves and disagree on the very book, whereby some sects have their own, different from that of others!

Again I tender the Catholics' Douwy Bible and the Protestants' King James Bible as my very symbols of the Biblical corruptions! Read it and disprove my statement above! Tell me how many Books in each, when you present your rebuttals, please.

Well, i do not accept that, since he is capable of keeping his words, it can not be best known to him for not keeping the three previous books, there should be a good reason, how could he tell without a reason, ok, he is unquestionable, but his words here are questionable and he need to tell us a reason, cos i see this as an incompetent answer that arises from the islam to claim the truth and you expect we should believe that without any tangible reason and evidence?

Your argument opens windows to your weakness in many places. You are the same guy who is arguing that Jesus is God, when he actually had human form, ate foods of human. Drank the drinks of humans. Pee ed like humans. Did #2 like human. Everything he did was humanly. He was not the first to perform miracles. He was not the last either. I wonder how you could have been so blind in your faith to accept that? What tangible reason that you have for saying he is God, when he could not create, but he was created? He had no power of his own, except by permission of God that he was able to do anything! read your Bible and open your eyes very wide when you read it.

As to your question, I find it to come out of you by a disbelieving mindset. If you could believe that God could have stopped Satan from tempting and corrupting into disobedience Adam and his wife regarding the tree, if that was His plan, then know that everything is in the Will of God. God Almighty allowed Adam and Eve to show their weakness, which was a way to send them to earth to be able to be the custodians and populate it with their offsprings. But Allah shows Mercy to them my inspiring them to seek forgiveness from them as they realised their fault in their conscience. God granted them forgiveness from His Mercy, while the flip side was the obstinance of Satan who did not seek any forgiveness. By this, too, God exposed the enemity of satan against man.

As to the protection of the Quran, it is the last Book. Hence the last most be protected for those generations to come. The other Books of the Bible were allowed to have the hands of men as they will, if their community is corrupted. The corruptions never will stop, even though we will have traces of truth still in it. Even if they were not to have been corrupted, Quran would still have been revealed.

Take the case of Moses and his people, The Children of Israel. Afterall, Moses was a prophet who his God personally spoke to. Is there a higher honor than having the Audience of God many times? Yet other prophets came after him? What was their purpose, except it was in the plan of God that things must be exactly the way they turned out to be, since this life is a trial so that Hell fire can have its abundant of fuels in human flesh, etc? And that Paradise can also be a reward that is ultimate from Allah.

Could you tell me why New Testament, if Old Testament were good, before the Psalm? Why the Psalm? Again why Gospel after them and the last given to a prophet from the Children of Israel?

produce your evidence

Protestant's Bible versus Roman Catholic's?

Do you knoww there can never be two truths?, one is either false  and the other fact, what evidence do you have to believe it is not falsehood?

Evidence of falsehood is the many versions it has. Truth is one. Easy to hear, read and understand. If something is made for human mind, it should be easy for humans to understand, with any stretching in it. If its from God, there should not be a trace of human hands. There is one true; Quran. There are falsehoods: tons and tons of versions; Bible and more Bibles. Bring Catholic vesrion and compare it to Protestants. Am not even going to throw the Eastern Orthodox, or the Russians, or the Egyptians, or the Armenias and others into it! Just deal with Catholic and mainstreamProtestants, first.

I used the word passed out does not mean it is abolished, the fulmillment of the law was simple, he summarized the law into two, "Love  your neighbour as your self" and "Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your might" , and that is the fulfillment of the law, cos when you love you will not do any thing bad to your neighbour or God.

In all of that love, have you shown any on the web, right here towards the Muslims? Has any of you Christians lived by your stamement, above, ever? Is it possible to love without the ability to get upset and can not hate if only temporarily? I wonder what is the use of the OT if it is broken doen, all of it to a single sentence? What is the value of the statement of not here to abolish the prophets and their laws, if it just mean "love of God and neighbors?" I thought part of the things about Moses included wars, killings and even an eye for an eye? The Jews have not stopped warring whenever they have the upperhand. The Christians who have upperhand presently have never seen a war that they did not participate in or encouraged that it is waged. The Industrial complex for ar must be sustained.

Where is the love, man? And why say one thing and do the other? Jesus said he will not abolish and told no one shall abolish after him. Yet he said the summary of it all is Love? Now is there nothing wrong with that picture?

defense just for a slap, can that lead to war?, muslims do not tolerate other religion, and the next is to defend their religion in the name of jihad, why? can't allah fight for himself, if he is capable and he is God, he does not need your help to fight for him? yes cos when you love your enemy, you will not see his fault and your love will draw him closer.

The first world war started by slapping the face of a European Bishop. Bishop is Christian clergy. I hope you understand that there is no society that will sit idly and allow a raging lunatic to run them over. Love thy neighbor will definitely become kill that crazy neighbor and think about it later. You think the Chrstians are angels? Wrong, man.Actions of men are correspondent to the conditions of men.

hmmmmmmmmmm and thats the difference between the God we serve and allah, our GOd demand perfectness, yes humans are not perfect but christians are perfect in the righteousness and perfetness of Christ and thats why for Christ's perfection to be ours, we ask for his forgiveness so we can be partaker of his righteousness. cos perfectness can not be attain humanly but can be spiritually which affects the physical

And above you put forward the idea of a God that makes mistakes. Are you okay man, and do you have a consistent thought about God, or you make it up as you go?

He claimed and according to the quran as there were no foretelling of a prophet

Is there a foretelling of a prophet before him and none regarding to Muhammad? Before Moses started his Torah, no material could be written about him, by himself. Or is that possible?

Muhammad's clan and people knew something was special about Muhammad, if one were to look at his family, clan, his father and his mother and the year of his birth, how he grew up. All of these will tell you something about him, if you wish to know. Read his sirah. Then it happens that ahmad (his other name, along with Mustafa and other, with Muhammad) happens to have the same meaning as advocate or comforter. Is a person who brings mercy or a means of mercy and or forgivenss not a comforter? At least a comfort to the soul? The Shifa on the day of Judgement is greater than that on earth. Muhammad (AS) will make shifa on the day of Judgement. Read the ending verses of Surah Mariam.

And do you know the difference between a slave and a servant, they are contextually same but intently different, A servant is not bound by any permanent deal and can refuse to work for his master, he can willfully and without force do the will of his master, but a slave is bound to the cause of his master and has no right of his own,

A servant who refuses to obey Allah and thereby disobey Him will be worst that obedient slave in the day of judgement! Whie the muslims as slaves ask God directly. The christians who think that they are neither slave nor servants but children can dare ask the same God directly. Rather they make Jesus ask for them. Come to think of it if the actions are what define the title, then Muslims and Jesus are equal! If Muslims say that they are slaves, then Jesus is also a slave. Since Jesus never said he was a child of God, then the Muslims are not children of God.

Now, who is truly a slave with rights  and who is worse than a slave without the gull to approach God, between Muslims and Christians?

that is the mystery called Jesus, but if you quite agree that,
1. he was born of no man
2. he still lives
3. he will come back to judge th earth

then i wonder why you find it difficult to believe that he is God, an Advocate to the father. cos none of these qualities muhammad had, worse still for muhammad he will be granted shifa by the same Jesus

Where can I read the Shifa of Jesus on Muhammad? I wonder where I can read it? Your lies have no boundary. You lie with impunity. And no quality in the 1-3, that tell us that Jesus is more than a prophet! Heck, Michelle Feiffer of Hollywood had a child in the 80s wthout even pregnant. The surrogate mother(s) are for hire these days. There are sperm banks where a woman can order a specific look of a father for a future baby! What are you talking about? By the way the word Shifa is Quranic? I wonder if Muhammad alone was not the audience of the Quran? Or was Jesus also an audience How could shifa be referring to him, since what was said about him is very clear and the muslims are not confused about it.

Show me what will qualify Jesus as God; his knowing the "time of the hour," or his not knowing that a fig tree can not have fruits off season? If there was a time to show indipendent superiority, that was it and he could not command a single fruit to quench his own hunger! Or according to you, his death reveals him for what he is; Human. I say his death is still in the future, which makes him human, still.There is no mystery in reality, man.

help me with them, with quranic references
thanks

Surah Isra. Surah Najm, spoke about his heavenly journey. Is there a greater Miracle than travelling to heavens and returning, alive, all in part of a night?

My brother Abuzola; I hope that C-NOETIC can make a fool of me. H ewill have to continue to struggle to achieve this objective" and at the end fails.

@C-NOETIC: Re: Is Muhammad Truly A Prophet ? The Interview « #20 on: Today at 02:29:14 AM »

@ olobowale

what are u talking about?

what qualifies mohammed as a messenger of GOD? and which of my questions or analysis of prophethood does mohammed fit into?

This earlier this morning, I was thinking about what single thing that can be argued for a prophet? And my answer is at best his message which is ingrained in his book.By my saying "his", I have nullified the possibility of a woman being a prophet. So I will argue for Muhammad (AS) as a consistent and undoubtedly a prophet! His message is Primarily and completely etched in a Book called Quran. Hadith books being explanations of the verses of this Book of Message. So I will concentrate on the Quran in this argument.

Language of revelation: Arabic the language of Muhammad is what it is revealed in. You will today find this Book in this language and those believers of the Message of Muhammad (AS), all of them know a verse or even a chapter of this Book in that language. It is reported that all of what was revealed to him was recorded and memorized not only by him during his lifetime. But many of those people who followed him in his time. That tradition of memorization still is with the Muslims today, coming down from his time all the way to now, over 1400 years in the making.

During his time, his community used this book and its content, though in patch and loose forms, in their day to day activities. That includes prescribed prayers called Salah, Charities and arm giving, called Zakah and Sadaqah, Fasting called Saum, pilgrimages called Hajj and Umrah. Supplications called Dua.

The core message of the Book is there is Only One God (Allah) Who deserves all prescribed Worship, without anyone ever to be attached in colordship, cogodship, codeity, etc. THose who truly believe do follow the above prescribed.


Tell me if there is a prophet whose book have remained in original like that? What about the message in its original form? If those prophets are alive today, will they recognized their own Books? Will Jesus recognize the Bible and which version, and what sect will be acceptable to him? What language; English, German, or which one? Do you think he will take English over Aramaic? What about Church over Temple? What about the clappings and the singing and the dancing? What about trinity itself? You may have to explain to him that you change his message as you wish. He will then wil have to tell you the Original Message for the very first time.

How about Moses message with the Jews? He will be shocked when he sees the Synagogues and the bopping of head towards the Wailing wall!" Jesus will be shocked too that you have discarded the laws and the prophets and came up with saying that he died on the cross and saying that he came up to life sometimes later. If you look at the argument, it is possible that the followers of Moses, (when they rejected Jesus) and the followers of Jesus (who in turn rejected Muhammad) may be wrong, since their books are never stable (refer to your Bible and learn what am talking about. Which is the real Bible?), or are the prophets wrong? The answer is clear.


It is the followers who are liars, because they lie against the prophets (AS). I know Moses and Jesus are both prophets. There books are no more exactly as they left them. Muhamad's Book is still in the same way! Am very confident that Muhammad is a proven prophet by just his Book. Now tell your story and proof to me how you can disproof him. Not that your statement matter anyhow, since my evidence above is overwhelming and very current.

Go to any Book shop, or Library, etc of Muslims. Then do the same for Christians and or Jews. Moses never called his religion or his trbal nations, Jew or Jewish. Jesus never called his religion Christianity and never asked that a religion be organized on his name, title etc.

Am done, man. And I dont wanna be bothered. Unless you present a compelling argument.

@Davidylan: Your paternal bloodline is from Ijebuland. Your father is directly from Ijebu Ode. So was my father. Now tell me, which sword carrier came to Ijebu Ode and made it Muslim town. Let talk about Ibadan with all its warring capability and the seat of Yoruba politics. Who came and conquaered Ibadan for Islam? The Ibadans will tell you that no one has ever defeated them in war(s), before. I don't wanna speak about Lagos, because it will be too complex for you.

Pegs of tent, are meant to hold tent in place, or do they have any other "Primary" function, other than "hold/stabilize" the tent? Now if Mountains o earth are stated to act like pegs of tent, holding it in place, then tell me what is exactly holds earth in place, preventing it from shaking (holding in place), if it is not the Mountains? What is the primary function of Mountain on the earth, if you know that it is not for holding in place?

And as to the murky look of water body when the sun is setting on it, please go back to fundamental principle of light travels in water. This is probably high school physics. When the light rays hit the water surface, it is refracted and does not straight, coming out bending, if it is in a transparent container; trough, etc. Try it in your apartment for your own edifice.

Now, factor in the condition of brightness, in the case lack of it at Sunset. It is therefore no surprise that a large body of water does have soil/sand as its base. It moves and completely not still. If the dying/dull rays of sun that is setting hits the water surface, I wonder what Davidylan standing at the bank will see?

I am presently away from Manhattan, at a small village (I say boomdock). It happens that the ocean flows creates a way, which is just less that 50 yards away from me. When i look at the windoe during the time the sun is setting to know if my clock is correct for Saah, I always see the murky look on the surface of a water that has clear look during the afternoon of everyday. Please look at the ocean in Rochester. Sorry you dont have an ocean, but you do have Fall. Look at it and the lakes, though may be artificial will clear up your confusion.

You can experiment at the time of the setting of sun. Get a big bowl with water. Set it on the balcony or a place that the rays of sun can hit it when it is setting. Stand far enough as if you are at the bank of a bigger body of water. Will it be murky or continues to look clear just before the sun is completely set? I want an answer from you, man.

@OLAADEGBU: I hope you can read english, since you live in England? If you are confused any further after this explanation, that follows, then know that it is not language but your disbelieving heart is what you need to blame.

You are a Yoruba man. Al Yorubas call themselves Omo Oduduwa. Is Oduduwa your father? No? Why do they call you Omo Oduduwa? I am also Omo Oduduwa, according to Yoruba term of endearment. Is your father, also my father? Am I related to you? Do I even know you from Adam? If all the above have a NO as their answer, then know that the Yorubas and those who follow similar traditions around the world, say the people who call themselves "CHILDREN OF ISRAEL (Jacob was named Israel after he had a physical contact/wrestle, according to your Bible, with an angel. Some of you Christians or all of you even think that it was "GOD" instead! Which one is it, confused English man? Is it Angel or God? I bet you will dock this question without a clear and concise answer.) are all out of order, confused and tall tale tellers!

Let me now come to the Christians as a whole to support my argument. You Olaadegbu and others called yourselves "god's children". Is God, your father in your family house in Nigeria, as your mother's husband, your siblings' father, your uncle and aunt's brother, your grandparents' son? Did your father God personally drove you to school as a child, and High School boarding house when you were in High School? When you call your father in Nigeria, now, is God the "Man" at the other end of the phone from you?


Or are you the son of Jesus? Follow the same pattern of arguments above, and think about others to support your "claim of child of Jesus or Support my destroying your Fake claims of God and Jesus relationships" to you. The last I check, none of you said that Jesus even have a wife! The foolish thought of disbeliever, and bet those who are yet to be born will say that God and then Jesus, separately is their father(s), not knowing that they are telling us in a very subtle way that their mothers are community properties and their fathers are not active in the bedrooms and they are bastards, since they claim at least one more as father than the person that share beds with their mothers.

The God and Jesus of Christians must be two active beings in the sexual department, if the Christian statement is true. The Christians even day that God is Jesus father! I have asked a humpty dumpty times; who is the wife of God, Mary? Yet no direct answer, except the usual waffling. Even Pilgrim.1 have not come out directly on this. If Jesus said he is son of man, regardless of not having a father, dont you know that "man" is inclusive of woman too? Is it not true that Mary is part of the term "man" here? Did Mary say that God was her husband? No? Aren't you therefore mistaking about Jesus being son of God? No? Am waiting for a logical explanation; statement from Jesus directly, neither subtle, not just inferring, not open to interpretations, not convoluting, but direct to the point. Yes he said he is and here is his direct statement, that can be understood by ordinary people. Or I can't give you any, that it is so direct that a primary 2 child or even younger will be able to get it. It is known that every child knows who is father; mom's husband, the man whose male semen brought about the child! Apply the same idea here, since Mary was a man. And Jesus was a man. Or will a man produce a God? Will that produced God by a man be true God or something in the category of darn "Idols: worship of such a man is idolatry, like worshipping Ogun and the other nonsensical idols around the world", or am I wrong?


Finally, the Christians always say that Jesus is son of King David. Why and how? Did David have anything sexually to do with Mary and the production of Jesus? Is this statement made only because David, Mary and Jesus are from the Children of Israel? No? Proof the relationship that can drive you to say that David is Jesus' father. Am waiting. If all of my questions have no answer from you, except what I proposed in the relationships of the beings mentioned, then know that Mary being called "sister" of Harun (AS), who is the brother of Musa (AS), is a honoring statement because she hailed from a noble family among her people. And they are all from the same bloodlines; Children of Israel. Please proof me wrong with sound arguments. And by extension of his mother's family position among Bani Israel of his days, Jesus also came from noble family. All prophets came from Noble families among their people. This Noble family lineage is for you to read, C-NOETIC, sice Muhammad (AS) has a noble lineage among the Makkan, the Hashimin clan in the Quraishi tribe.


Chapter 19 verse 33 states the day I was born (past tense at the time he made the statement) "Born from my mother's womb to the outside world", and the day I die (something that will occur later in the future of the time of the statement) "Dies by my soul being removed and separated from my body, and called back to the One Who gave me the Soul. My body will be buried in the same way that the bodies of all prophets are buried when they died. I will be shrouded in the same way Adam was, Idris was, Noah was, Ibrahim was, etc. Not unclothedness without being washed. I will remain in this state until Allah decides", and the day I shall be raised up (something that will also happen in the future of the statement) "Raised up from the soil/grave where I had remained buried until now. I will hurry up, emerging from the soil, breaking loose in the same way planted seed emerges as a seedling with the new foliages; leaves and stem. Finally I will emerge completely, hurrying off to my appointed place, as head of my nation. My nation is are those people I was a leader of, as prophet, with my prophethood starting from when I announced it, by God's permission, ending with when the next Prophet after me (Muhammad) announced his. I am raised up not for show or purposeless, but for Judgement of me and those people who fall into my "prophetic era."


And Jesus was not the only baby he spoke in the Quran. Surah Buruj has a baby who spoke. An ahadith about "Juraj" who did not answer his mother's call has a baby who spoke, too. I wonder if the Quran culled out the child in Buruj and the one in the ahadith about Juraj from your lousy "Agnostic Bibles, also?" Orshi rishi. (I borrowed the Orishi rishi from the usual expression of Orikinla; Here I am a muslim. A follower of Muhammad. I borrowed an expression that is clearly Yoruba. I am a Yoruba man. But just because Orikinla came to mind when I was going to you it to yab you, Olaadegbu, I had to give props to Orikinla. Honestly, if Muhammad were to have taking anything from any place, do you think he would not have said where and give the credit to the author?

Here you find in the Quran that Allah says He is the Author and that Muhammad (AS) has no single contribution to it. Who is Allah, again from your Christian mindset? You say it is the moon god. Could the moon god write such a fantastic book, through the tongue of a person (Muhammad) who destroyed all gods/idols (including moon god) when he and his companions (RA) became victorious over Makka? Shouldnt he have retained this moon god? No? But you wear across your neck cross with yur worship of it; the wood and the onewho is hanging on it. I know you have now in gold and platnum, with all kinds of diamond studs. Regardless the cross is still an idol. If you say that Shaitan has anything to do with Quran, then it shows that you have not studied Islam or know muslims. Even when a muslim is still doing evil, he continues to say Audu billahi minal Shaitani Rajim. Muslims are required in Surah Gafir, the first of the Ha Mims, that one should seek protection of Allah against the accursed Satan, before reading the Quran. Also in the same Quran, muslims are encouraged to seek Allah's protection, against Satan when in order to avoid sins. Where do you come up with your warped understandings?

When Jesus said something that was in Torah, or read from it, was he rejecting his own New Testament or his own mission as inferior, or it was the commandment given to him by the "One Who Sent him?" And is the New Testament on its own sufficient, for the Christians? If so why do you read the Psalm of David for "Protection?" If not, and obviously it is not enough for the Christians, why do you go to the Book of the man you said he was an adulterer and a Murderer? Since the Taurah, Sabur and Injil of today is deemed corrupt, a true Muslim will have nothing useful in it, except to use it to argue against you guys.



@C-NOETIC: I hope you do under simple English? Since Quran says Jesus did not get crucified and did not die (go to Surah Nisaa), then it simply means that when you think he died on the cross, at best he was in a coma. Or just tired from his ordeals, and hence there was no visible sign of life at first glance. No wonder his blood flowed liberally when the spear was thrust and pierced his skin. But he was too tired to even give any sign of pain. But as the carriers claimed him for burial rites, they soon found that his body was still warm (to the touch and not cold, usually the sign of death), a sign that his blood was still flowing and all organs were still working. So they laid him down and began to medicate him, with balm or oil so that he can recuperate and get well. They knew it will take time for him to be well. So they knew they have to repeat the medication so that he is nursed back to complete good health. Afterall he lived like a human being (eating, drinking, sleeping, tired, fatigued, needing rest, urinating and deficating), among them, without anything special about him, except his Prophetic messages, preachings and miracles. (If you know any different tell us. If you are arguing that he was God, please tell us in Jesus own word in the Testaments, where he said he is God? Does God Almighty also falls under those beings that He God has created death to overtake? If God dies, who will still be the Irrestitately God? Who will remain Lord and God over all creations? What do you think Satan will do if God dies? What do you think the Angels will do if God dies? What do you think humans will do if God dies? Do you think humans will still worship a dead God or one upon a time "dead" God? I am waiting and I don't have all day. And if he had said that he was God, would it not be a shame and an endictment on him, if he couldnt have healed himself right away on the cross for all to see? Those who said he was speaking blasphemy would have to believe him, wouldnt they? They would be certain then that they couldnt hurt him? NO?).


If he did not die and just pretended to have died, like how we have seen many do even today, in a situation where their life is in danger of being taking, then know that Allah prevented Jesus was being killed and later regained consciousness, in a safe place; the cave! If you know the culture of the Children of Israel, you will know that they bury their dead like the muslims, immediately. What could have been the reason for the people who took possession of Jesus from the cross, to keep him longer, if they actually believed that he had died, and not burying him right away, going against their traditions? Since he knew that he will be rattled out/betrayed by Iscariot, he announced it to his community. According to the Bible, it happened that Iscariot greed did not guide him away from being the betrayer.

Since Jesus did not announce to anybody that he will die on the cross and remain dead for three days and then come to back to life, we have to now assume with good argument that neither death nor coming back to life occurred from the Friday that he was hung and the Sunday that he was out of the recuperating cave! Here is my argument: Jesus said that he gave his community a sign of what happened exactly to Jonas in the belly of the whale will happen to him, in the belly of the earth. In this case we know that Jonas was swallowed, still alive when it happened. And He remained in that alive state in the belly of the whale for complete 3 days. Not part, but complete three days and then was spittted out still alive, with some body sores. At no single time did it die, according to the Quran. The incidence with the whale was a reproach from God on Jonas (AS).

Now lets turn to Jesus condition and analyse it from the time of mounting the cross all the way to the empty tomb. Jesus was already tired when he was hung. We can now see that without any food or drink, it is only a matter of time before he collapsed and have no pulse if still alive or completely dead. But wait, if he died on the cross, then his condition will not be exactly that of Jonas and the whale. For Jonas was swallowed alive and remained throughout the ordeal, alive and did not die at anytime. If Jesus died on the cross then the equation have changed and no more aceptable as a true prophetic saying/prophecy! That will disproof him as a prophet, wouldn't it? Yet prophet must be less than God or isnt it? If Jesus was incorrect, becaused he died can we not say that he had said something that was false, hence he will not be regarded by true believers as Prophet even? How can you take the word of those who speak falsehood and say that they are prophets or even one of them is a GOD?

Let move forward, if we take my premise, the islamic premise that he was alive throughout on the cross, then when he was taking down, he was still alive. This will be consistent with the Jonas condition and what is written in the Quran. If you christian says he died on the cross, or off the cross in those three days you have disproved him because his statement as to what will happen to him similar to Jonas will actually be the archille's heel here.

The people should have buried him right away, except that they did not. That raised the question why they did not according to the traditions? What will they be doing with dead body, by robbing oil on it; experiment to know how long it will take for it to begin to smell bad or what? Remember that this man was their leader and prophet. Did he leave them an instruction? No? Then why keeping a dead body around? THey are not even carnibals for crying out loud!

Muhammad left instructions about his burial. He said after you have washed me, leave me for a period of time. This period was the period that the Angels came down to even make Janazah prayer on him. He also said that when he was buried the people should remain at the grave site for a perid that it will take to cut up a camel. The Arabs knew the approximated times. So they did exactly that. What instructions about the after the cross period that Jesus left, concerning any happening that will make the custodians of his body wanted to keep him for three days with oil rob, at some appointed time, if I can ask you again? They are now going to annoit him in dead which they did not do while he was alive? Shio on you C-Noetic idea?

Back to Islamic understanding; The people knew that he did not die, or they suspect it, so they decided to keep him under observation, while they medicate him. They robbed oil as a healing solution on hiswound and his aching body. In time, he regained his energy and emerged from the Infermmary/Dispensary/Hospital, take your pick, guy. All of this is within the plan and command of Allah. All He needed to say was "Be!" Jesus emerged, well enough, but still carrying the signs of the ordeal; sores and body aches. No wonder he did not want anyone to touch him, according to your Bible. But then he ate, because of hunger, just the way he used to eat before the ordeal Another sign that he was still a human being. I do not see any inconsistency or a transformation, here between from before the cross and now that he has emerged and join his community!

We both agree that he was lifted up to heaven. He did not do it out of his own power, considering that the Bible said that God told Jesus that he will strenghten him. I am point out to you that God is not Jesus and Jesus son of Mary is not God, but a human prophet, needing God all the way.

I guess now you will undersatnd that it is either Jesus prophetic saying came true, exactly as he said, or it did not. I say that it came true since I have argued that he did not die on the cross nor was he crucified!

By the way do a Jewish people calculation of a day for us. When does their day begin? When does it end? How is it that Friday evening through Sunday just after dawn can be 3 Jewish days? Many will enjoy your reads.

Where do you live, man? English seems to be so foreign to you. If a man has not died, raising up which must come after it, can not take place. But the same man who has not died can sleep so deeply that he may appeared to an untrained eyes, as dead or at least unconscious.

The yorubas used to say that sleep is the little death. Just imagine that.

so many dead heads.

@C-NOETIC: Re: Is Muhammad Truly A Prophet ? The Interview
« #18 on: Yesterday at 10:29:57 PM »

So if anyone says he is a prophet, he is automatically one. . . , right?

No and I never said that is the qualification. I stated few of the elements that may be used to define a Prophet.

ur argument is flawed. what are the attributes of a prophet? What is the common denominator of all prophets?

I wonder if you know the quality of a prophet and how the office of prophethood is ordained? God alone ordains His prophets.

A prophet must have a message. . . . his message must be reconcialiable with the "GOD" he proffeses.

The core message of Muhammad (AS) were Allah is One Lord and His chosen religion for mankind is religion. And no association of anyone/thing with Allah.

A prophet must show "works" from his sender. . . .this works could be good deeds, deliverance or miracles.

Muhammad (AS) united the arabs in one single brotherhood, whereby bloodletting through generation tribal wars of revenge is a thing of the past. The only man who truly was sent to all races and colors, because even his companions were of these different people; Shuaib from Rome representing Europeans and white people, Bilal Rabah from Ethiopia who represented Africa, while Salman represented the Persians and Asiatic people. By the way Abdulsalaam was representing the "Jews." It is very clear that arab men and women were part of his community of followers.

He delivered the Arabs and all muslims from idolatry. It is a miracle that a blood hound from Nigeria restricts himself from sexual ludeness. Read his miracles in his lifestory.

A prophet must make and reveal prophecies.

No more prophet after him. Please point to a single true prophet, if you take away the likes of fakes like Odumosu known as Jesu Oyingbo, or the crazies running loose in the western nations. Prophetic statement that Rome will defeat Persia. Abi Lahab will never accept Islam and shall die as a disbeliever. The opening of Persia and beyong.

These are three ingridients of a prophet I subscribe to. Which of them does mohammed fulfill?

Muhammad stated that the body of Pharaoh shall be recovered because it is to remain as a reminder/warning to future generations. That body is in Egypt, today and you dont have the same information in your Bible.

Mohammed claims islam is a religion of peace . . . . .yet he postulates the killing of "infidels" and gives no right to non-believers.

The word "infidel" is on the pages of the Bible. Read Timothy and then show me in Arabc Quran where the word "infidel" is written?

he also advocates jihad (violence and oppression) as tools for converting unbelievers.

If force convertion was employed dont you think that those who did not convert would be killed? And who forced converted by forefathers in Ijebuland of Yoruba tribe of Nigeria? I think you are just talking for the same of saying something.

So how do u reconcile mohammed's message of peace to his deeds that are enshrined in violence and oprresive inactions?

And how do you reconcile prophethood of Moses; was he considered a violent or not violent prophet? How about that of Jesus who spoke in the Bible about killing, purchases of ammonitions, without doing any fighting? Could it be that he was overwhelmed, by the fire powers of his enemies? There is no reason to buy ammonitions unless you are intending to use it. You cant tell your associate to buy machine guns, here an now, except it will be used to kill something. Now tell me what was the intended usage of the Swords that Prophet Jesus requested his followers to buy?

Which miracle did mohammed perform? I am not aware of any. please educate me if there is any miracle from mohammed.

Among a billion and more miracles, Muhammad healed the ailing eyes of Ali bin Abi Talib so that he can give him a sword. Water sprouted between his fingers so that people can drink and make wudu. What about his heavenly night journey? Does that qualify? Read man.

What prophecy did he make? you should be able to tell.

His uncle will die without accepting Islam. Rome will defeat Iran. You want more, read man. Pharaoh's body will be found in good state. All of these came about. What about space exploration; non-muslim nations fulfilled it. Read Surah Rahman.


[Quote]
who is mohammed, a prophet or a messenger?
and what exactly is the relevance of all these u stated above?[/quote]Messengers are also prophets, duuh. Messengers are message carriers. Prophets are not necessary message carriers, but probably reformers. Muhammad like Moses and Jesus was a Messenger with a whole lot of message written in the Quran. A prophet if you look at his actions and speeches and commitments in his hadith and Sunnah.

@C-NOETIC: Let me help you to understand; Islam says Jesus son of Mary has not died. Are you familiar with fainting, since Islam says that it was made to look as if Jesus son of Mary died? Think hard, my man. There is actuality and there is what may look like it. What looks like it is not necessarily it.

Allah the Creator and Master and Sender of Jesus said Jesus son of Mary did not die. Do you know better than the One Jesus prayed to, petitioned for protection? Your Bible says that the Lord sent help to Jesus to strenghten him. Are you getting it, if only a little?

Since there was no death yet, there is no raising up, yet. If when everyone is unconscious is death to you, then everyone whois in deep sleep dies and raised up according to you. Some peoplecould actually be deep in their sleep that you may think that they are dead, What about those who claimed that they died and returned to life? Did they really die? If your answer is so, then they have shared a specific quality with your Jesus, according to your Bible. I wonder if that makes them, prophets like Jesus son of Mary.

Noetic, Sorry, C-NOETIC, I hope you can read. Allah says in Surah Nisaa that Jesus did not die and was not crucified. And then the verse 33 of Mariam which seem to go have gone over yur head says "peace upon me, the day I was born, (done already), peace upon me the day I will die (not happened since he was a babe talking about his future death, while defending his mother and telling the rabbis that he was a prophet to them; the children of israel), and peace upon me the day I will be raised up again (an even that shall take place after his "peaceul death".

Why would he be raised up again, except to be Judged on that day of Judgement, like every Messenger and or prophet and humans and jinns? Has Jesus been judged, along with his nations, those who truly followed him, obeying his prophetic commandments, in worshipof Allah and doing good deeds for the sake of Allah? The Awariyun (read Surah Maidah), his helpers are still dead and clearly those followers are not raised up for Judgement, yet!

Open your eyes and heart for understanding and get some knowledge, man. I wonder if you even know that your religious concept is stating that some of you Christians will not die. Paul died already and those people who have greater belief in Jesus since they were with him from the beginning, also have died. According to you even Jesus died a gruesome death that his very soul is even accursed so that yours can be saved. Yet, some of you will end up in the Lake of Fire and burn there, since it is recorded in the bible that not all of you Christians will enter "heaven!." Dont you see how unfair your Christian lord is if his companions all died and he himself died and you, a long after the fact generations will have to escape death? The same warp thinking is what is leading you to not know that peaceful death can never occur on the cross by crucifixion!

@C-NOETIC: Please tell us how you can say that death by crucifixion is peaceful? Or being raised up from such a painful death with pains still lingering all over the body, according to your Bible is peaceful?

Verse 33 of Surah Mariam, has shown us by that the birth of Jesus son of Mary was peaceful, without difficulty on him. Afterall, his young mother delivered him, without any adult helping her. Just ask any mother how their children faired at births? Mary even benefitted from the "peace" of the birth of Mary, since she was consoled and received the comfort of producing ripe dates for her, in a "miracle" only recorded in the Quran, as a dead and stumpy remain of palm date tree was brought to life to serve this purpose. Your Bible have no real and verifiable story about his birth, except the 3 wise men visit calling him king.

Let me explain something to you about Semetic culture; No man who is a believer and wise will enter the place of a woman that is not permissable for them to see in private. This is the very reason when the Angel appeared to her to announce the future birth of Prophet Jesus, she was startled, scared of any possible arm and then seeked the protection of her Creator, if the person was evil. And when Jesus was asked later in life if he was the King, he was recorded to have denied or said nothing to affirm it. I am very clear that if he was called a king as a baby, when he was growing up, he would have been told, hence there was no reason to deny such title when it was crucial to his case. I summit that it was just a "feel good story" from your Bible. It begs all traditions, since even now my mother still talk about my bloodlines; her's and my father's. And I never let my children where they came from, regardless of their many visits to Nigeria. They somehow know their heritage. It is not possible for a royal blood to behave like a slave, if he was always called a King/prince/noble blood from youth.

By the way the Mary also was provided with water to wash and bath her baby, upon birth. Now when Jesus returns and lives as a member of Muhammad's community, then he will at the end dies. His death will be peaceful, by Allah's will. When all mankind is being raised up, Jesus's ressurrection will be peaceful, without the usual pain and difficulty in both cases of death and being alive, again.

@C-NOETIC: Prophet are ordained by God to people with message. They say with their mouth that they are prophets. Awolowo never said that he was a prophet. Go back and research it. Maybe another prophet for the Christians, since the work of the "original prophet" never complete? What was the name of that prophet with shurdy or incomplete work to the Christians? Thats your first mistake for opening a can of worms wit me.

Messengers are higher in spiritual and prophetic office than prophets. All prophets are not messengers. But all Messengers were prophets along with their messengership. Messengers were given Books (Kitab), or Pamphlets (Suhuf). Muhammad got Quran, and Jesus had Injil when it was not polluted, while he was alive in their community. David was given Sabur and Moses was gien Taurah. Ibrahiim (AS) was given Suhuf, and so where others. Moses even got a Suhuf. If you in good conscience can disparage Quran in Arabic, then I ask you what will you do with the Old Testament, Psalm and New Testament, all in English, different and apart from Aramaic, the semitic language in which they are revealed?

The other day, I was neading a cousin of mine who is a Christian about the tower of babel. I asked to imagine how high the Babel will be when the Biblical God get furious with the people, and confused their tongues so that they cant understand one another? Can you imagine a God who is afraid and concern that humans (His Creation) will catch up to Him? IA GOd who is afraid is no God, but a fake God. Unless the story that brought about that idea of a God getting worried is a lie. I can not imagine myself accepting as a true God a God that is afraid of His Creation.

I often wonder if in the days of Tower of babel the Engineers knew how wide the base of a tower that is 1 mile high? Is it possible that man can build a tower in those days to a height of 5 Miles? What will the base be, considering the fact that humans advanced in knowledge in every generation if compared to the generations before. This brings me to the pyramid period, a later generation. See that the pyramids are just fractions of 1 mile, yet the base is always wider than the height. And yet today, the shuttle journeys and even all the moon and space craft journeys that current man have engaged in, have not scared the Most Powerful Creator. I hope that you will reflect on this matter, which will confirm my statement of the probability of the tower of babel story as something that scared God that He therefore quickly confound mankind to not understand one another. Today, collectively, men understand one another, another proof of the bad storyteling.

Finally, Quran itself in Surah Al Rahman disproves it by challenging man to conduct space explorations! By the way, it was the number of man that worried God in the Babel story, but the height of the structure that was build. The West have penetrated the space. The Arabs have built tall buildings, which I assume to be taller than the crude period structure of babel. The arabs and mankind are still here. By the way, we don't have a story like that in the Quran, but the refutal of it is well established as I have pointed it out in the Surah Rahman.


To proof the valilidy of a prophet and messenger, there must be basic information that will be available. The Christain King of Byzantine's story is a very good story. Disproof it. I can tell you many more things, including the time of the death of Muhammad's son, and it coincided with an eclipse. While the companions were attaching the celestrial phenomenon t the death, the prophet (AS) told them that it had no relationship. Thats another sign prophethood, honesty even when he was the only one who knew it and if he had said it was, no one would have doubted him, even with the current scientific knowledge. As I have said, please open your mind and understand the truth.

Nothing that happened in life that a person with perverted intention can not give it a twist, regardless of how "unnatural" it may actually be! Proof; people still believe that there is no God. People still believe that the earth and galaxies and plants and humans, etc and space and beyond (Heavens which do not believe exist) just happened. They foolishly state, that it is tiny particle which only has a position, but no mass, that became all of these! They say an action known as Big bang acted upon it. One ask them; where did this tiny particle came from, and then the force that acted upon it? They will never give a straight forward and simple answer. And when you challenge them that how is it possible that this tiny particle can produce such a "Bang; loud noise" and finally brought about these complex beings, human is one of them, can come about this particle?

By the way the same people will say that "energy can not be created". I wonder how this tiny particle can swell up to all of us, and even future human discoveries?

I can talk to you about the kindness of Muhammad, in supporting a complete stranger and others against his paternal Uncle; Abi Lahab, in Makka while he and his companions were being oppressed by the community. I could talk to you about his actions in Makka and Madina to alleviate the conditions of the inhabitants. In Madina, he was loved by Jews he came in contact with, since they knew he was that Madinan Messenger which they have been expecting. This is the reason that AbdulSalaam became a Muslim when the campaign of Huud began. In the defeat of Makka the Muhammad gave a full amnesty to all Makkans, including those who ate the heart and livers of Hamzah bin Abudu Mutalib. Tell me a prophet that have shown such mercy, if you consider Jesus on the cross, according to the Bible not forgiving the Thief on his left, and we never heard that he forgave Judas Iscariot. Please provide proofs. Finally Muhammad's Quran can bring some happiness to the heart of the Christians that Mary was not a lose wman, based on the saying of the Jews. And that Jesus was not killed like a common worthless criminal. If dont understand it, tough.

The Jews can also use the Quran to protect themselves from the swords of the Christians when they think it will help them, since Quran says that the Jews did not kill Jesus. Miracles started before his birth and even before his parents were maried. Read the Sirah. THe same way that you can proof that Moses, Jesus and others before Muhammad (AS) were prophet of God, will be the exact process that Muhammad can be proven.

From the Christian mantra about food, what is taking in is irrelevant. Hence, it will not be a surprise if, christian is found eating (garbages and wastes, including humans, while ihnoring fresh, and wholesome foods) mudpie, etc. It will be a surprise though, if Christian denies himself/herself from any foods; fresh and wholesome, old, decaying and lacks any goodness for the body, including those that offend the eyes.

Christians should have no problem eating any and all things, since what goes is not important. Jesus, according to the Christian is enough to change everyting. Its what comes out of the mouth/body that is important. Then I wonder how the Christian takes it when he throws up, or deficate; numbers 1 and or 2 and even blows the wind. Which account is spit, mucor from the nose, or from the mouth? You are what comes out of the body.

@$Osisi: Sisi, stop giving the children any pig product. If Oga does not even want any, why give his offspring? You (sef) no dey eat am! The muslim is worshipping when he/she obeys the Commandment(s) of Allah, in all things. I enjoy what Allah gives, when He gives it to me. What I want, that is good, (food and other things) I petition my Rabb in my dua. I love good food. I dislike and move far away from what prohibitions of Allah on me. Maybe that is how my heart have always never accepted Porky/Piggy foods.

My loving mother (in her disbelieving years as a Christian, used to eat Pork/Pig; I have said it before), now is Halal food only eating woman. Take after this lovely, and age not showing 80something woman. No pork for you, please.

@Emotional: The amputee, if he/she does not return to the evil act that cost the amputation, know that InshaAllah, that sin will not lead him/her to Hellfire. It will be other sins that may lead her/him to it.

However, if such a person, after amputaion abandones evil actions and never returns to it, but turn to true belief and do good deeds, hoping for the Mercy of Allah, then know that that Amputee will have the full rewards in Paradise, InshaAllah. Allah says that He is Merciful and oft-forgiving. He blots out sins and show mercies and forgivenesses, agan and again.

Infact, such a person, by Allah from His Mercy will have a new limb, when recreated/ressurrected for Judgement.

@Todak: You seem to be a person who have eyes but cant see, with ears without hearing, heart that is dead. Sorry my man. You tend not to understand. When you talked about Muhammad and killing in wars, I needed to remind you that in the Bible, Moses who pillaged (read your Old testament), was still speaking with God/Yahweh/Jehovah/Eloi without anybody to be the go between. Yet, Moses led the Children of Israel for almost 40 years. He was the most successful and most recognizable prophet from their society. Ask the Children of Isael who now call themselves "Jews". They will tell you since they do not recognize Jesus even as a prophet, except maybe as a "Rabbi!" Ask a Jew, I said. Or ask many of them. They will tell you.

This is the reason that the "Jews" (I disike to call them that, except when in mockery. And I dont do that at all since my lawyers and some associates are for the most part Bani Israel; sorry Larry, Freddy baby, etc) never come to the religion that you formed using Jesus name. Today, a Jew who is a Christian is in the dog house in Israel. The same Israeli people who you claim that they are the covenant people. I wonder if their covenant is still valid/current and if it is, what then happens to yours, the Christians? If not valid/acceptable anymore, what in the world will make you say that they are still "covenant" people, if truly has any current covenant?


You must be using the same misdirected thinking, as above on the validity of Covenant; Jewish or that of another with the christian. You cant have two covenants going on as valid at the same time. If you do, then what is therefore special or the need for the one that is more recent, the or both, or the one that was earlier? I think you are using the same thinking methodology, above to still call a woman a virgin, after you said (Check the Bible) that she had 2 sons in addition to the miraculous birth which we both agreed upon. I wonder if after sexual encounter with Joseph, the man she had the children wth, can she be called virgin anymore? If yes, then the word lost its luster.

By the way I used "another" hoping that the matter of "another Comforter" may now register in their psyche. Consider that you can have "another" except there was something else of the same nature, regardless of one existing before the other, or at the same time. I am still wondering who the first Comforter was that prompted Jesus to say "another Comforter?"

I am going to assume that if your answer is yes, then a woman with 2 children with her husband as a result of actual sexual intercourse(s) will still be a virgin! You see how wrong you are?

@C-NOETIC: Have you not been reading what the Muslims have written on Nairaland? The fact that you do not believe, with this much "venom and or hatred" is truly a sign of his prophesy. Read the Quran and find out how "intensed is the dislikes" of the disbelievers are of Muhammad (AS) and his followers in Islam and their very religion.

His Book, the Quran is still in original, at it was from the time of revelation, before it was written down on patchments. Today that it is in a Book it still remain origin. As a matter of fact, if the Quran, in written forms were to disappeared as the wish of so many "disbelievers; the powerful or the not powerful" there will not be any significant effect, if there is any at all. Those who will believe in the future generation of mankind, will get Islam from the voice of those in their generation have the Quran in their HEARTS!

This is a miracle that no other Book can match. Easy to learn, memorize and recite. It is the sweetest and most powerful words you can hear from the tongue of believers. It affects the heart like no others. Its story which is similar to what you find in the "Bible" is more comprehensive, in substance and message and details. Read the story of Yusuf in the Quran and compare or contrast it to what you find in the Bible. They are not equal.

While the Quran tells us that Yusuf clears and restores his own honor by demanding that the woman who was after him, sexually confesses that she was in the wrong, the Bible said no such a specific detail. Read also about how Yusuf asked Allah to let him go to Prison so that he does not perform sexual illegality. Show me the same "protection wish list" from Joseph in your Bible story. While the women in the high society of Egypt gossip at the incidence, the lady after Yusuf threw Banquet and for appetizer/dessert, gave the women at the dinner table fruit and knives to slice them. Then she ordered that Yusuf be brought in in expensive clothing and jewelry. Te women were so captivated and in awe that they thought that he was an "Angel", which is the reason that they cut themselves, thinking that they were cutting the fruits, numb from the pain of the cuts, because they were dazed and entranced by Yususf;s beauty!

Give me the Bible version, please. Other parts of the Quran will point you aright. For one, the Quran says that God is One and nothing is like HIM.

@Todak: I hope you eat Vulture, Eagle, Agama Lizard, Cats and Earthworms, Dungbugs, and other animals like them, including House Flies and Mosquitoes!

@$Osisi: And you said that your beau/hoby/husband/Oga don't eat pig! I wonder how this gentle soul deal with your "medical, I don't care. I can eat anything attitude?" I thought its only in sex that medical people don't care, but yours is in meat? What he does not eat, you eat his share; double portions of pork? Stop it, woman, since you can desist from the "I dont care about loose sexual attitude of Doctors and Nurses", then it should be easy to walk away from eating pork. I hope for your case because of "Swine Flu; Texas is notorious in this matter."

And your original premise is already answered; Muslims don't hate everything Piggy or pig itself. If pig is dying, say of thirst, and muslim is the only one that can prevent it by giving it water to drink, you will see the "believer" getting the water for it, with the hope of receiving the reward of the good deed from Allah for His sake.

Proof: Believer was recorded in an ahadith for proviing water to a dog that was about to die from thirst. A person went to hell for mistreating a cat. It is not really the animal, if your life is not in danger. It is the action of good deed for the pleasure of Allah.

Every signand action of worship (prostration is one of them) is forbidden, except ermitted/commanded/allowed by Allah. Allah commanded the Angels, and Iblis the genie being was in their company to prostrate to Adam. The Angels did, but Iblis didn't because of arrogance of his creation source (smokeless fire, while Adam (man) was created from mixtures of many hues/colors of the soil from the earth and waters). It is the very action of Iblis that let Angels know that Iblis (Shaitan) is a disbeliever, since he was deemed a believer by them before them. Allah knew the secret in the heart, always and reveals it, through the actions of the disbelievers.

Joseph (AS) dreamt that his father, Jacob (AS) and his siblings, family prostrated their faces to him. The dreams of Messengers and or Prophets are always true, the very reason that Jacob (Israel) was to prostrate to his son, Joseph. I wonder who is more important if you look at the esoteric values of their actions; the one who prostrated or the one who prostration was offered?

In the two cases, above, Allah allowed them. Based on the hadith of the Messenger, Prophet Muhammad (AS), it is apparent that no prostration is allowed. I will not do it and I dont accept it from anyone. Islam comes to improve people. Some aspects of Arabic cultures were abrogated and no not fit into Islam. Islam has its own culture. I have learnt not to take every Yoruba culture, unless it fits into Islam. I do not say Ori mi o, Eda mi o jare, since if Ori is understood, it will mean "Soul!", but not another name or word for Creator. Eda, Olorun, Eledumare, Oluwa, and names that clearly point to Creator/God are what I will say.

Lets be true muslim. Lets leave subtle "disbelief" to the actual disbelievers. Lets try to be "true believers."

@Todak: Let me mess wth you for a minute, about your poor knowledge of arithmetics. Math will definately be too much and complex;

I father spent 6 hours making soffisticated men of his two sons; on both of them, he went through orientation with them about the birds and the bees, for 2 hours. Then he spoke the older boy for 2 hours alone, about responsibility of his first born position in the family, with his siblings and his mother and stepmother. Then he called the two boys together, again and took them shopping for a complete wordrobe makeover because the older is going to study Medicine at UI, while the younger is top in his class to the final year of high school.

Seeing that he had made men out of them, he way very happy, and turned in to the master-suite, with the hope that they will be fine citizens of Nigeria.

Can you, Todak tell me how many hours he spend to make these two male children so that they can become people he is satisfiedwith? Calculate it, exactly as you have been calculating the creations of heavens and earth, from the Quran. I hope you are sincere and will not flip the script in this case. People are watching you, both muslims and others.

Get on with it. Hopefully you will arrive at 8 hours out of 24 hours of that day, proving to us that the time he did not spend with them was 16 hours. People will laugh at this answer, except you can give us a palusible explanation. Of course, if you arrive at 6 hours leaving him with 18 hours to spend on other things, then you have to go back to reconcile your answer on the creation of heavens and earth.

@Tudor: Flowers are loved by Muslims. Moroccans squeeze the juice of "Rose petals" and pour it over people when in festive and happy moods. Perfumes are also made from petals of flowers. And we all know that Muslims use perfumes/fragrances liberally on the body to pray. I use it on my forehead and face, my palms, knees and the sole of my feet, among others.

@Todak: Can a goat have an offspring (goat) that eats flesh? Can a Goat produces Pig, considering what each eats, smells like and lives, etc? Can perfection produces as an offspring imperfection? Can the All Knower have a child/offspring who does not have complete knowledge? Can the One who is always Alive have as a child the one that at least experienced death, based on your Bible naratives?

Can the One who created Adam and then even as fully grown, male and then female (Eve) produce a child who came to this earth with all the helplessness of being a newly born, the blood that comes after birth and the placenta, etc,  like every human child born through fusion of male and female productive materials?

Enough of trying to make a human God, man! The creation of Adam is from the eyes of man is even more impossible than just a production of human from just a female. Afterall, Ants still produce their non-productive members from unfertilized eggs. And male seahorse carries the young through futal development stages. Today we have cloning, and surrogacy where actually child is produced without father and or mother. Sex may not necessarily occur.

Finally, you are talking about marriage from the eyes of your human god. Even though he did not get married, do you even think he can be an authority on the subject more than the human prophet who actually married, considering that what the human prophet recommended, divorce in extreme cases, safe lives and prevent extreme emotional backlashes, even today?

You need to be real man.