₦airaland Forum

rotadeco27:
The highest so far!

it has just started going by the easy of lock down

Jokerman:
Thank you... I understand perfectly now... Thanks... Let's keep praying for God grace to keep us anew everyday

me i will advice you to create time for yourself, go back to your bible, read from the book of Matthew to Revelation all over again like four or five times. May be by the time you are on your fifth cycle of reading, something will hit your brain then you will discover that all these great tribulation and rapture stories are nothing to worry about, that they must have occurred at the time Jesus was crucified according to how it was prophesied in the book of Daniel

I will give you a tip.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

oluwaahmed:
What is wrong in being a gnostic Christian?

I don't say anything is wrong with, the question isn't necessary

1StopRudeness:
Finally 2nd thes 2v7 ...what is Paul referring to as “resisting”the lawless one... until that which is resisting him is taken, the lawless one won’t come..... taken here meaning rapture...

no!
It does not mean rapture.

2 Thessalonians 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work : only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

That is, only he who refuses to believe will disbelief until he is condemned.
So, the mystery of iniquity here refers to death or condemnation as a result of the individual refusing to believe in Christ, remember Adam and Eve sinned and death came to the world but Christ has come to restore life back to mankind such that as many who believed in him are saved from that death(the second death after judgement). John 3:16.
And whosever does not believe in him is condemned already. (the second death) John 3:18

2 the 2:3 mentioned FALLING AWAY which also means death(the first death that we often see or hear, not the final everlasting condemnation).

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

That first death reveals the man of sin or perdition in that, when we see a man dead, we know it happens because Adam and Eve sinned. This must happen first before the day of the Lord which is judgement. It is appointed once for men to die, after that judgement.

This is another scripture pple use to back doctrine of rapture.... that the lawless one can’t thrive during the church...
If u don’t believe it’s the church that will be taken b4 the lawless one is fully reveled....

I believe every scripture should not be read in isolation, when you relate scriptures with other scriptures you will see the truth.
So far, there is nothing rapture in these scriptures except they want to keep reading them in isolation.

Oshokalo:
Hey ur research outcome is a junk,u are talking about jesus who was before adam who knows how civilisation will be even in 2090 dat he was refering gospel to them within is jurisdition
Think well

All these atheists sef

oluwaahmed:
Are u a gnostic Christian?

you have no basis of asking that kinda question seeing that i backed up everything is said with scriptures which i stand to be corrected.

1StopRudeness:
We are all learning you don’t have to call people fake becos of the little understanding they have

people?
I didn't call anyone fake o, I said the doctrine is fake.

Anyways could you explain the doctrine of first resurrection? Rev 20v5
because obviously the Bible is saying some will get to Jesus first. In that v5, it’s says “ the rest of the dead did not come to life...

this is based on the revelation of John about what happens to men after they die. The bottom-line is, rest of the dead who did not come back to life were people who did not take part in the first resurrection by believing in Christ while they were alive. By so doing, their names were not in the book of the lamb as indicated in Revelation 20:15

Paul explains the coming of the lord ddnt split resurrection into two. He simply said Jesus will come in the cloud with a loud trumpet/call, the dead will rise first and those living will be caught up with them. Thess 4v16-18....

read 1 Corinthians 15:35 to the end you will have a proper understanding of what was trying to say in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18, he was basically saying the same thing which is resurrection of the dead and not rapture.

Jesus will come in the clouds.
The clouds there signifies heaven, the sound of the trumpet there signifies death, that we will all die someday to face immediate judgement. Trumpet is used there as a call that when anyone dies his time has reach.
After the judgement those who died in Christ will be resurrected immediately,therefore death has been defeated.
And the reality of things right now is that we are already in that heaven through the resurrection of Christ there is no other heaven but resurrection of the dead here on this earth.

Samuellawale:
Devil has blind your insight for spiritual understanding... Pls read that Matthew 24 again and pray that the holy Spirit hi you divine meaning to it... That's if you are a child of God

But if not, confess your sin and accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and savior first, then read the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit

a child of God don't argue the way you do.
A child of God will simply point out were the devil has blinded the person in the scripture

Donlanray:
You need to give your life to Jesus Christ before it is too late.

shut up and get lost.
It's you that need Jesus

HabuD:
I am glad you said MOST ROMANS, which itself is even false. A centurion was a Roman commander of a hundred soldires, and they were few centurions compared to ordinary Roman soldiers and Roman citizens. So you saying MOST Romans were centurions is false. Its like you saying most of the soldiers in Nigeria are major generals or brigadier generals. What happened to the lower ranks? Can high commissioned officers be more than the ground troops they command? The higher you go the fewer they become.
Second, during Jesus' time, Roman citizenship was not just restricted to Romans. Some non-romans including Jews were also Roman citizens, either by birth or by induction for a certain accomplishment. Apostle Paul (though not during Jesus' time) was a perfect example. He was jew but was a Roman citizen by birth. Yet he mingled freely with his fellow Jews who were not Roman citizens.
Also you only disputed one of the many points that I had made earlier. How about the other points I had made earlier?
I sincerely think you need to have a good grasp of Roman history during the time of Jesus and the Apostles before you make comments, so that your comments would be very incisive.

ok,
I agree i didn't know about the centurion being commanders, but how about the social discrimination that existed between the Jews and gentiles in those days, don't you think there was a limit to which an average Jew could go to a gentile and mingle with him to ask question about his country, why will a Jew do that in the first place?

HabuD:
So did the end come following his crucifixion like you had said? See how you are here contradicting yourself...lolz

you are not getting it.
I said the disciples(not me)thought that the end will come that was why they asked Jesus in Matthew 24:3 what are the signs of the end of the world. Unknown to them Jesus was referring to his crucifixion as the end

Equiano:
Let's get this straight please. Matthew 24 started with some of jesus disciples asking him for sign of his presence (2nd coming).

not second coming or is there anywhere in Matthew 24 that Christ mentioned his second coming?
The disciples only asked him what were the signs of his coming and the end of the world thinking that the world will end the moment Jesus is crucified at Jerusalem. Luke 19:11

Jesus mentioned many things like earthquake, wars pestilences, food shortage ... and preaching to all nation's etc. Jesus knew what he was saying that preaching will be done in all the nations, not what you said above.bthe crucification is not the end that Jesus meant. The end is the end of this ungodly world.

all these things happened at that time Jesus was crucified.
For instance,
Matthew 27:51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and AND THE EARTH DID QUAKE, and the rocks rent;

So you see, there was earthquake on that day.
There were food shortages. Remember, Jesus had to do miracle to feed 5000 people?
War? The Israelites were already in bondage of war by the Roman empire as at that time.

kenduline:
Acts 1:8..But you shall receive the power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you and you shall be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth
That was after his resuration when he was about going back to heaven

exactly!
That was after his resurrection. That was when they started becoming aware that there are places to go and preach order than Israel and Samaria because they were pushed by persecutions

Lostz:
they know the Earth is vast. remember the Israelites came from Egypt (Africa)

Israel also have history of trade with Africa and the rest of the world during the days of Solomon. Solomon even built fleet of international ships for trade.

even before leaving Earth, Jesus repeated something similar to same people;

Acts . 1. [8] But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

the bolded shows they know Judaea, Jerusalem and Samaria are different from other part of the Earth.

if you read Matthew 24 clearly, you will understand that Jesus is not just talking about an immediate action.
he was talking about signs and happenings towards the end of the world and preaching all over the Earth happens to be one of the signs

OK, they also know that there were places like the current America, Australia, Canada and even tropical Africa abi?

Tell me more

HabuD:
Remember that during Jesus' time Israel was ruled by the Roman empire which virtually everyone during his time knew stretched from Europe in the west to Asia and Israel in the east and down to Africa in the south.
First, remember that Israel and Jerusalem were occupied by romans who had legions and citizens in Jerusalem. These people no doubt would have told the Jews about their cities in Rome and all the other Roman territories they had been to. Its like you never been to Ghana before but you have friends, relatives and even Ghanaians who live around you that have visited Ghana before. These people will certainly gist you about Ghana and describe wonderful cities in Ghana to you. By that, you will now know that a place like Ghana exists where people live.
Second, the Roman empire (just like the greeks and Persian empire before them) made their empire in such a way that they were interlinked for diversity of purposes (e.g businesses) and to make ruling easy. There were number of Jews who did business throughout the Roman empire including Europe and Asia at the time of Jesus and who came back and gave details of their visits to their relatives and friends back in Jerusalem.
Thirdly, though a lot of the Jews were raised in Aramaic, Greek education (as propagated by the Romans who inherited it from their predecessors, the Greeks) was the primary form of language and communication. This was done to make interactions within the entire roman empire easier for administrative and business purposes. So these Jews who were schooled in Greek were no doubt taught about the Roman empire which stretched further than the areas Jesus preached in Israel.
Fourth, the Greek word Jesus used in Mathew 24:14 "in all the earth" is "oikumenes" is translated "all the INHABITED EARTH", meaning all the inhabitants of the ROMAN EMPIRE, which they already knew was vast and covered the territories i had already listed above.
Fifth, the Greek word used in that same Matthew 24:14 for unto "all nations" is "ETHNOS" meaning "a tribe or race, especially A FOREIGN or NON-JEWISH ONE". Everywhere that greek word ethnos is used in scripture, it refers to the gentiles as a foreign tribe or race and as distinct from the Jews. So in essence, Jesus was telling his disciples that for the end to come, the gospel must be preached outside Israel, to the gentiles, including the Roman empire which was the world super power of that period. He was indirectly revealing God's plan of salvation was not only for the Jews but was to incorporate the gentiles who would believe in him (because at that time, the Jews thought salvation was only for them).
This was the mystery of the church (grk. eklessia meaning the called out or chosen ones), where those (whether Jews or gentiles) who would believe in Jesus as saviour would be chosen and called out, and formed together as a new and special entity called the church, as opposed to what the Jews thought at that time that the church was to be composed of only Jews.

see, the Jews had nothing to do with the gentiles where the Romans fall among.
On the other hand, most Romans in the land of the Jews were centurions you know what that means?
They were free and were never bonds like the Jews. So, even if a centurion stoop low to say something about Italy to the Jews how will they possibly imagine that Italy was that far?

The verses even confirmed the more that Jesus was referring to his crucifixion as the end time.
I have established that the disciples themselves were limited in understanding.
For instance they had thought that the moment their journey with Jesus to Jerusalem ends, the world will end and the kingdom of God will come down immediately from heaven physically.(Luke 19:11).
That was the basis of understanding that spurn them to ask Jesus that question Matthew 24:3 "what will be the signs of thy coming and end of world" ?
Infact, Peter and the two sons of Zebedee(James and John) began to fight among themselves who among them will rule that kingdom because they thought the world was about to come to an end very soon.
And really, it has been preached before that time by John the Baptist that the kingdom of God was at hand(meaning it was near), which made them thought the more that heaven will fall down on that day of his crucifiion.
So, everything Christ told them in that Matthew 24 happened that very moment

Taku555:
That's your view anyway but look at it in this way too. If Jesus was referring to his crucification as the end time, those verses from Math 24 Vs 1 to 13 would not have been said. Read the beginning of the chapter to verse 13 and come back to justify your view.

And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 24:1-13

TrippleEEE:
All nations is also used in the book of revelation to describe the whole world.

that is true, but i was referring to Matthew 24 specifically as it applies to what Jesus was trying to tell his disciples.

The gospel is for the whole Earth! Every tongue and tribe must hear this gospel of the kingdom. The disciples might be myopic but Jesus wasn't.

this is very true

Don't add your opinion to scripture.

i didn't add my opinion, I just rightly divided the word of truth

mansakhalifa:
Not true. They called Sudan Ethiopia on those days too. The Ethiopian eunuch in the bible was actually from what is today known as Sudan[Kush to be precise] and not actually what we call Ethiopia today.

Which means, they knew there was more to Africa than just Egypt.

ok,
However you are seeing it, it still did not dispute the fact that most people in Israel as at the time Jesus was explaining to his disciples in Matthew 24 never travelled wide, so there is possibility that most of them at some point believed that the whole earth was limited to their vicinity. And if you really look at what happened you will see that the gospel of the kingdom was preached within that vicinity by Jesus and his disciples before he was crucified right?
That tells you that everything spoken by Jesus in Matthew 24 happened within that area at that particular time.

Jokerman:
Where do you people get all these fallacious teachings from??

keep remaining there, there are even more to learn that many of us have been deprived of

johnoj24:
Wait a minute, are you a genuine Christian at all?

ofcourse I'm!
Or do you have anything to prove what i have said wrong?

Lostz:
who said there was no trade around the whole world?

Acts 8:26-40 New International Version (NIV)
Philip and the Ethiopian
Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Go south to the road—the desert road—that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.”
So he started out, and on his way he met an Ethiopian eunuch, an important official in charge of all the treasury of the Kandake (which means “queen of the Ethiopians”). This man had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and on his way home was sitting in his chariot reading the Book of Isaiah the prophet. The Spirit told Philip, “Go to that chariot and stay near it.”
Then Philip ran up to the chariot and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.
“How can I,” he said, “unless someone explains it to me?” So he invited Philip to come up and sit with him.
This is the passage of Scripture the eunuch was reading:


or is Ethiopia not in Africa?

Jesus also repeated same command to preach to all the nations after his resurrection so he could not be talking about his death

Paul even travel to as far as Italy it is mentioned in the bible. Infact he would have taken the gospel message to Asia if not for the intervention of the Holy spirit. But that do not dispute the fact that most Israelites as at that time Jesus was talking to them in Matthew 24 could not imagine that the earth was that vast, that's why Jesus restricted his view of the earth in that scripture to just mere Judea and Samaria and not necessarily the whole earth to their understanding

profolaolu:
You don't know what you are saying, people can go as far as Africa (Ethiopia and Egypt) Asia then, Paul preached in Turkey and other places

Turkey still fall within the same middle east region so you see, men were still limited to the region they know until the invention of automated sailing vessels or ships

ToyBoyAaron:
This is not correct in any way. Jesus knows the world more than any one so what are you trying to say? When the end comes everyone living will witness it. The death of Christ is the end of slavery to sin and not the end of age.

i don't say Jesus didn't know. I said people of that time possibly didn't know so Christ thought them based on what they know

Babaflenjor:
They all knew Africa exist Egypt Ethiopia etc

they only see Egypt as the whole Africa and nothing more

aydotaone:
This is quite deep but strange to believe anyway.

exactly!
You we learn new things everyday. But most time it happens when we think realities outside the box

TrippleEEE:
Error spotted.
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
To all nations!!!!!
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation.Mark 16-15...
Acts 1 vs 8-But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."

Stop trying to sound intelligent. Sound the truth!!!

To say ALL NATIONS and to say THE WHOLE EARTH are both the same thing now in the context of what Christ was saying.

Thank God he even mentioned Samaria and Judea, these countries were found in a specied region and not widely the whole world, so understand that

Web2020:
Brother you made some points, but I am not in total agreement with you. When Jesus say the whole world he means the world. He was not referring to his catchment area. God created heaven and the earth and it fullness there in. Yes, there was a limit a man was a able go as there was no means of modern transportation. But that was not in any way suggest that Jesus was not aware of how vast the earth was.

I don't say Jesus was not aware of how vast the earth was. It was the disciples, the Pharisees and perhaps the whole Israel at that time that didn't know how vast the earth was.
Jesus was like a father who was teaching children using what they could understand and what they understood at that point was the limit they could see.

Plus10:
Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 that the end will come when the gospel has been preached to all nations of the Earth.My question is "are there nations or places where the gospel has not been preached?

understand how people view the world as that time Jesus was on earth.

1. The fastest means of transportation back then was horse, donkey or camel : meaning, there was a certain limited distance one could cover
2. Because men could not travel far, they tend to believe that the world ends at their immediate environment they can see. That means, for instance, the Jews living in that area of the ancient Israel in those days will never in their wildest imagination believe that continents like Africa, Asia, America, Australia, etc exist because there was no possible means they could travel far.

So when Jesus mentioned the world in that scripture he was referring to the standpoint of the coverage of their view based on the distance men could travel, he was not referring to the world in total.

To that note : Jesus and his disciples travelled from one city to another preaching the gospel of the kingdom, they started from Galilee preaching and were traveling to Jerusalem by foot, it was like traveling from Ibadan to Lagos by foot(based on the map).
That distance was enough for Jesus to say the gospel of the kingdom must be preached to all the earth because to them, that distance was all the earth.

After the gospel of the kingdom was preached by Jesus and his disciples who covered that little distance referred to as all the earth, Jesus was crucified at Jerusalem, that crucifixion was the end.
That crucifixion was what Jesus meant by saying then shall the end come.

karo93:
Romans 10.9-10 says it all;
Steps to be saved....

1. If thou shalt confess Jesus as LORD
2. Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead

John 3.16 says those that believe in him will not perish....

Thats all.... Anyone that believes is a christian as long as he continues to believe.

So an armed robber and kidnapper that already believes in Jesus is a christian.....an irresponsible, uncommitted one at that but he believes.....


The souls we should be celebrating that we are winning should be those that did not previously believe.

Living like christ should be as a result of believing in christ and being saved....not the criteria or steps to take to be saved. As you said there can be holy muslims and buddhist and hindu living like christ in the sense of the word but do not believe

you are on point sir

timothydare:
pls read Mathew 6:9,10
pls take note of verse 10.
Jesus asked his disciples to pray for Gods will to be done on earth as it is in heaven.
pls read Revelation 14:1
take note 144,000.will enjoy heavenly hope.
pls read. psalm 37:29
the righteous will possess d earth
take note.d earth
and live forever on it

divide 144,000 by the 12 tribes of Israel how many tribes do you have?
Ofcourse 12 thousand.
Are you part of the 12 thousand?
If yes what tribe do you belong?
Benjamin, Judah or Levite?

timothydare:
the kingdom is in heaven.
we as humans are beneficiaries.
some will rule with Jesus in heaven. some will rule here on earth

excuse me, who are the some and what scripture did you ger this from?