₦airaland Forum

Mr man, you better go back to your Islam and continue with your women marginalization, it is where that kind of a thing is fitted, not the bible and Christianity.

gobuchinny:
See it's only saying their fornication is worse but not defining fornication. Pls let's read with understanding

ok, the scripture did not define fornication but it is saying their fornication is sleeping with father's wife abi?
Atleast Paul has defined what they did, that a man slept with his father's wife and said that is the fornication they committed which is something worst than the suppose light form of fornication seen among the gentiles but
he did not mention or even define it, therefore me and you reading bible today cannot possibly know about that kind of fornication among the gentiles because he didn't mention it, so how come do we know that the light fornication among gentiles is sex among unmarried people?
is it that we have seen it like that in another scripture or we take it and believe it so because churches are teaching so today?


Can you please mention one scripture that defined fornication as sex among unmarried persons as every Christians today are believing it to be.

Just one

How do one define a flaw in the context of the bible?

Emusan:
You can go to www.biblehub.com to read about their materials (Commentaries).

ok

fairfora:
I agree with you to some extent . Especially on the contents of the old and new testaments. Tithes being mentioned in the old testament in few places but never mentioned in the new testament because jesus christ was concerned with the sinful life of every individual, asking them to repent and be holy, preaching from cities to cities and in empty stomach most of the time. He wasn't bothered with how much tithes were being paid to church, which our men of God nowadays are hammering on, leaving the core values of why they're called to save souls.

For example, I don't believe in the tithe because most times, what I give to the less privileged, including the widows and elderly was always more than the 10th of my profit in business. I donate offerings to church but I give much to those mentioned above. The scripture says when I was hungry, you fed me, when i was naked, you clothed me, etc and a question was asked...when did all these happen( I summarised it) and he replied, in as much as you have done all these to the least of my people, you've also done it for me...that's it. We should always seek the holy spirit's help to interpret the word of God to us all the time, because these men of God who are overwhelmed and preoccupied with worldly activists could lead one astray.

Pls are you a Christian bro?

I'm a Christian, but i always scrutinize every message before making them my beliefs and principles so i am not like the conventional Christian common everywhere.
I believe in the dead and resurrection of Christ as my source of salvation,i am not perfect, i go to church but I'm a little careful.
Because, i understand that whatever believe system i have been inculcated with, they form the basis of who i am.
Having a picture of who i desire to be, i deliberately not accept any belief that will become antagonistic to my dream of eventually becoming that person.
Though everyone(including my pastor) sees me in church and think we are the same, but to me we are not

Take for instance, the tithe issue.
I keep asking questions, why will God not command the gentiles to pay tithe as well and yet salvation was for both the Jews and the gentiles alike?
Does the church not see that this an advantage to the gentiles?
They will say Christ has made us part of the common wealth of Israel therefore we are Jews.

You are Jews and you still speak Yoruba, Hausa and Igbo?

They will say i don't understand the things of the holy spirit.

Is money meant for tithe spirit or physical?
Because, according to characteristics of money as we all know in economics, it is portable, durable, uniformity, limited in supply, generally accepted.
Till tomorrow, the holy spirit is not even generally accepted.
C'mon who is playing the fool here?

I think the church is grossly lacking in intelligence, this is what i avoid to associate myself with

But the people, they are still friends and family, they were very helpful to me at the time of my humble beginning.

fairfora:
I knew where you were driving at and the word of God cannot be twisted.

unfortunately, scriptures were twisted by people known as bible scholars far back at the periods dominated by the ancient catholic church. This twisted scriptures forms doctrines and doctrines that are still thought in churches today, and that is what i seek to correct.
For instance, the church still teaches that people that have not wedded should not be called husband and wife inspite that they already have children.
To be sincere, will you call your brother who has not wedded an unmarried man inspite that he is living with a woman who has given birth to children for him?
I am asking you.
Because, the law recognizes the woman as his wife, so long children are involved.

I've replied you on what paul said about the "object of mercy" and..."even us". I even gave you an instance. Paul and those he referred to as "US" in the bible were once gentiles and jews who were once persecutors and not counted worthy of the object of mercy but by God's grace which found them and counted them among "the object of mercy". Who are these object of mercy as referred to by paul? Those are the saints who are heaven-bound, whom God himself has prepared for his glory. But because God had said he would have mercy on whom he would have mercy, paul and others were counted worthy despite where he came from(ie from among jews and gentiles who were persecutors of Christians )...read from verse 13 upward to understand better, instead of concentrating on the verse you quoted, which was vague.

this still do not dispute the fact that Paul has become one of the believers as at the time he wrote the scripture.

Now, coming to your issue on fornication which was why you're trying to twist the bible, paul was admonishing his people( including those who had at one time accepted christ but backslid). The bible recorded that after christ rose to heaven, people's faith became cold. Some went back to idolatry and various sins which were a commonplace among the gentiles or unbelievers), that those things done by the gentiles must not be found among them anymore as reported.... and one of those things the gentiles were doing at that time which his people were also found doing was...sleeping with their dad's wives. Paul said it mustn't be reported among them anymore.

Take up your bible and read this verse a hundred times. It's not same as paul or bible supporting fornication. Good morning

a hundred times or a thousand times will still point out the same thing that you have rightly pointed, that fornication was common among the gentiles but Paul condemned it among Christians in 1 Corinthians 5:1. So, i do not dispute against the fact that the sin was common among gentiles.
What I'm interested is, how do today Christians define fornication?
Do they defined fornication based on the idea the ancient catholic church indoctrinated people with, or they are defining it based on the knowledge of scriptures?
I don't think today Christians are defining fornication based on the knowledge of scriptures and that is affecting their current lives negatively. Otherwise, i will not even bother at all to attempt to correct it.

People who ignorantly developed the doctrine they have all died a long time ago. Christians today will now believe the doctrine and it is affecting their lives negatively today.
They just have to do something about it, because like Christ will say, all powers have been given to them.
They have the power to change any faulty doctrine in order to help them think straight this modern day.

Anas09:
If God declared Himself as the God of Adam why not just post it instead of rigmaroling?

God don't need to declare himself as God of Adam for you to know that he is God of Adam.
Scriptures cannot possibly record that God declared himself as God of all the key figures in the bible who were faithful to God.

Emusan:
They are all students of the scripture, that's why it's good to STUDY the scripture in addition with different scholars' materials too.

alright! I will like to get a glimpse of one of their material, can you please post it

fairfora:
The "OBJECT OF MERCY" and "EVEN US" as used in the context are not same. Why unsaid your submission was vague was because one thing led to the bible verse you quoted which started from the earlier verses. I was expecting you to have also made references to those earlier verses especially from verse 6 of that chapter but you didn't. The Objects of mercy were those whom God had prepared for his glory. These were those to whom Christ was preached and accepted Him. The "EVEN US" described the Jews and Gentiles including paul himself ( who were mainly persecutors). They were always antagonistic to the teachings of the gospel and anything linked to Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, the bible made us understand that these jews and gentiles were known for killing and unleashing injuries on Christians who preached gospel at that time. Paul fitted in this category of people (that is, the jews and gentiles) but also saved by jesus christ on his way to damascus. In summary, the object of mercy were those who never believed in christ but were preached to( God had mercy on them and called them to Himself)...and they in turn, embraced and believed on Him....paul and co. who were called out among these persecutors ( the jews and gentiles ) were counted among those whom God had shown mercy and have prepared for His glory. If you say paul and co were also counted among the object of mercy because they ended up knowing the truth, though in a harsh way( Christ met Paul in his way to damascus to persecute Christians as usual, remember ) , I'd say yes.

in all you have written you still fail the answer to the question you know why?
Because you never consider time.
As at the time Paul persecuted Christians till the time of his encounter with Jesus on his way to Damascus he never wrote any epistle talkless of writting Romans 9:23. As at the time he wrote Romans 9:23 he was already a believer of Christ and was no more a persecutor of Christians, therefore when he said "EVEN US" he included himself as a believer at the time he wrote the scripture, that he himself(including all believers) were OBJECT OF GOD'S MERCY.
So, OBJECT OF GOD'S MERCY and EVEN US(including Paul) are the same thing. They both referred to believers of Christ at the time the scripture was written.

Now that you have failed the question it shows that you lark understanding of scriptures and that is exactly what i wanted to know by diverting away from the original scripture(1cor 5:1) to Rom 9:23-24

The point is, just like Paul used the term EVEN US in place of OBJECT OF MERCY in Romans 9:23-24, that is how he also used ONE SLEEPING WITH HIS FATHER'S WIFE in place of FORNICATION in 1 Corinthians 5:1

It takes thinking(meditation) to understand certain scriptures, that is what you failed to do.

Let me tell you a story. A pastor came to preach whilst I was still in ibadan in those days. He said he and jesus were enemies and he never liked to be in a gathering where jesus' name was being mentioned and he used to make mockery of Christians. He said he was an armed robber and he used to kill for fun. He said he never spared his victims in all their operations..even if all members in his gang refused to shoot his victims, he must ensure he killed all of them before leaving, even after a successful operation. He said one day, they didn't have a field day in a northern town and they apprehended them after his bullets finished . They were 5 in number and they took a 6 inch nail and hammered deep down their brain ine after the other and said they should allow them go and die slowly. He said when he got to a desolate place, he fell down and passed out. Suddenly a man appeared to him in a white regalia, inserted his hand into his brain and was mending it in that realn and said he wanted to use him so he's time wasn't up yet that, he should turn to him because he's the saviour. By the time he woke up, blood had filled his face and body . All his accomplice died a few minutes later. When he woke up, he saw a couple coming from the opposite detection and they took him to the hospital. The dr said he might not survive it after he removed the nail. Amazingly, days later, he was still alive. While in the hospital, he saw the same man in a white apparel in his sleep who came to mend the brain as did the first time. In short he was perfectly ok and later enrolled in a bible school, now he's a preacher of the gospel. This man could be likened to those in the group of EVEN US. While the OBJECT OF MERCY were the Christians whom he was persecuting while he was still an armed robber.

the goodnews is, today the man is a pastor.
Now assuming he is asked to put to writing his present state(not the time he was an armed robber and he hated Jesus), certainly the man will write that as a pastor EVEN ME, I am an OBJECT OF MERCY.
That is what Paul did when he wrote Romans 9:23 categorizing himself among belivers saying EVEN US.
He did the writing at the time we was not persecuting Christians anymore, at the time he was a believer.

So understand the time difference.

Preciousgirl:
Supposing Jesus should appear today,
How will you feel?
Be honest

why will Jesus appear when he has already said he will not appear?
Jesus don't need to appear, he lives in you. You have him already, this is the best feeling.

yes

Does the writter think Jesus will dwell in homes build by human hands?
That is huge contradiction of scriptures and the writter is also self-contradictory of his statement below

kpakpandoN:
The Lord considers His Church to be the totality of people who have given their lives to Him and are living according to His Father’s ideals (John 7:16-17).

that also means, the Lord considers his church not to be any building people go to worship him every Sunday or a home people go

Emusan:
Your point doesn't need long narration.....

The simple answer to your it is, sleeping with one's father's wife is also fornication but that's not ONLY THING FORNICATION means in the scripture.

If you object to this, I'll go ahead to present the details by citing different scholars view on the subject matter.
As I

go ahead, I'm reading.
Only that the scholars you are deploying have their views backed by scriptures.

Emusan:
This thread is to clear the air about the topic on front page tiled "Fornication is not sleeping with who you are not married to..." as you can check from the below link.

https://www.nairaland.com/5191658/fornication-not-just-sleeping-someone

From the thread, it's evident that the @OP made valid point, I only disagree with him where he said "Watching Pornography is secondary fornication"

Watching pornography isn't secondary fornication but fornication in every ramifications.

How? You may ask!

This simply means the GREEK word translated as fornication in the scripture is "porneia" and critically looking at this word, you'll probably see the tone in word like porn/pornography. This is to tell you that the people behind the creation of porn/pornography know exactly the message they are passing across.

That being said....

The main purpose of this thread is to address the misconception people are having about FORNICATION being attached to only people OUTSIDE THE MARRIAGE to distort the truth of the scripture as it can be seen from the comments on the thread.

Firstly, I understand that whenever people are talking about fornication outside marriage is to eliminate any sexual relationship attached to BF/GF as commonly called today. This has sideline the married ones making it seems it wasn't applied to them either.

Secondly, sorry to burst your bubble, fornication isn't just about having sexual relationship outside marriage but having sexual relationship all around be you married or not.

This is because the Strong's Greek Dictionary defines "Porneia" as:

Harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:--fornication

so stop saying fornication is done OUTSIDE MARRIAGE...

Now the main issue is, should two people who have not married be sleeping with each other?

I know this is where people do disagree mostly with each other but I'll try to address this in the light of the scripture.

This can be seen from that thread especially with @paxonel which he got some points right thou not be able to pass it across very well but he misapplied 1 Corinthian 5:1 by saying "fornication is sleeping with someone's father wife or vise versa" sorry that's not the right interpretation of that verse.

Back to the main point.....

Thirdly, whenever the issue of unmarried people (BF/GF) sleeping with each other arises, people try to separate it:

1) The committed ones (who are serious and decided to marry each other)
2) Uncommitted ones (never have marriage in view but just doing it either for fun or for any reason)

I won't dwell much on the "Uncommitted ones" because outrightly everyone seems to agree that they are fornicating.

What of the "Committed ones"?

Anyhow we look at it, no how two people will eventually marry without coming together as friends FIRST the time span/frame might be different (<1yr, 1yr, 2yrs, 3yrs e.t.c) and you can called it any name you like be it BF/GF, courtship, dating e.t.c the point is, at this level were they permitted to be sleeping with each other?

Fourthly, to answer this question, I'll FIRST say, no separation as committed or uncommitted ones in the scripture likewise do scripture openly speak over the issue. Thou some people have misapplied some certain verses to this situation.

Such scripture are 1 Corinthian 7:1-2, 9; Heb 13:4
These two scriptures were strictly addressing the issue of marriage not before/outside marriage.

Take for instance 1 Corinthian 7:1 which is commonly used "...It is good for a man not to touch a woman ....Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband"

From here, having the understanding of what fornication is from the beginning of this thread, you can grab the point but what gets most people confuse is the @underlined where it said "...to TOUCH A WOMAN" so to them, it means not to sleep with her, whereas, this isn't about that.

At least most scholars I know never interpret this to mean unmarried people not to sleep with each other (Note: I'm not supporting unmarried people sleeping with each other but interpreting the scripture the right way) but the question is about whether a man should marry.

Adam Clarke put it this way: "Is it proper for a man to marry in the present circumstances of the church?"

Barnes said this: "Another question which, it seems, had arisen among them was, whether it was proper to continue in the married state in the existing condition of the church"

Family Bible Notes says: "Not to touch a woman; not to be married?"

Jamieson Brown say: "The Corinthians in their letter had probably asked questions which tended to disparage marriage, and had implied that it was better to break it off when contracted with the unbeliever"

And many more......
Likewise if you read their submission about Heb 13:4 it's all about marriage not OUTSIDE MARRIAGE....

BBE: "Let married life be honoured among all of you and not made unclean, for men untrue in married life will be judged by God"

RSV "Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefile; for God will judge the immoral and adulterous"

The word "Immoral" used RSV is what KJV used as "whoremongers" and the Greek word translated was "PORNOS"

Lastly, should the so committed ones be sleeping with each other? Well, the answer can't be outrightly YES or NO with scripture. Thou the scripture always admonishes us to keep our body holy and our body is the temple of God also no one can applied this to unmarried people only.

The point I'm driving at is that some people have neglected the key point of those verses by making it seems they were solely applied to unmarried ones, leaving marriage ones to think they're not fornicating when they were seriously addressing the issue of marriage.

That's why most people keep replacing the word fornication with BF/GF.....

May God help us all!

you have spoken well my brother.
But i want you look at this scripture again let's reason it together.

1 Corinthians 5:1(KJV) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

Now, looking at the scripture, Paul specifically mentioned fornication, as if that is not enough he defined what someone did that he is calling fornication, that the person was sleeping with his father's wife.

Is there anything more straight-forward than that?

I also noticed that though the word fornication is mentioned countless times in several verses of the bible it is only 1 Corinthians 5:1 that defined fornication in details that it means one sleeping with his father's wife. All other scriptures will say for example,
Flee fornication,
To avoid fornication let every man marry his wife and so on.
But non of these scriptures mentioning fornication has defined what fornication is, only 1Corinthians 5:1 did.

I'm a student of the bible,
You are a student too,
Let's leave sentiment of what we have believed previously aside about what we think fornication is.
Let's face 1 Corinthians 5:1 and analyse it squarely the way we see it.

What is your take?

damosky12:
This is my username quoted with Shadeyinka's post. Correct it.

thanks, I will correct it.

damosky12:
In marriage, the there is a MUTUAL agreement between the two that "they are husband and wife"!

good

In bf/gf relationship, there is a MUTUAL understanding that "they are NOT yet husband and wife"!

And I'm saying that this stereotype does not apply to everyone involving in bf and gf relationship and should not be.
You have to understand that people are not the same, some people are willing to take their bf and gf relationship as a mutual agreement that they are husband and wife.

I think I have explained why marriage is spiritual, societal and legal (formal/informal). And as per Spiritual, I speak to you as a Christian.

you are not close to understand what is spiritual. Church teaches us that anything spiritual is what we can't perceive,for instance the spiritual implication of having sex, but that doesn't apply to reality as sexual intercourse is strictly physical affair.
The attraction is physical,
The act itself is physical,
Even when the woman becomes pregnant and she is giving birth they are all physical.
Therefore, there is nothing like transfer of spirit during sexual intercourse, it is a wrong belief originated from primitive African traditional minds.

But rather, what should be termed spiritual in the context of reality is strictly issues that has to do with ones religious beliefs, whether the person is a Muslim or a Christian or he beliefs in something else.
For instance, you can say there is a spiritual consequence when the government is depriving Christians from attending churches, or Muslims from attending mosques.

1 Cor 6:16:
"What! know ye not that he which is joined to a harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh ."

this scripture is not saying there is anything spiritual between a man who is joined to a harlot. Rather it says they are one flesh, meaning they are one.
Flesh are not spirits.

I think that you have also used the "principle of exception" or "aberration" occuring to determine what the norm should be now.

Let me give you just two examples:
1. In those days in the Yoruba land. The king can see any beautiful maiden and command that she be taken (literally from the street as his wife). The family of such girl will be notified that "the king has put his feet on your daughter". This is a aberration, but it is recognised even by the society.
2. During wars in the time past, the soldier is entitled to his female captives. Whoever he desires is his wife.

But these two examples even though they exist are not the norm. So is the case of David and Abigail you sites.

the bible recorded that Abigail willingly followed David's men to be his wife after the men spoke to her, that is not aberration.
But the examples you gave, the your girl or women had no choice but to comply whether it is their will or not, that is aberration.

Finally, in the culture of BF/GF,

there is no fixed culture of BF/GF, don't generalise. what Africans perceive about bf/gf is not what the rest of the world thinks i will give you example.
Christiano Ronaldo the known football, he has a girlfriend who is a model isn't it. He has been dating that girl only God knows when, the girl has two kids for him and he is dating no other.
Shawn Cater popularly known as Jay Z dated Beyounce since 1999 before the destiny child group. They still remain together till tomorrow with kids.

These are just few to mention.

So what are we saying?

African culture and beliefs are tormenting we Africans in aspect of defining what marriage should be, we don't know.
And we are now taking that torment and traditional beliefs to the church to torment fellow Christians who are ignorant like us, we don't know.
We create laws and demand that they must wed before they are recognize as husband's and wives meanwhile there are no scriptures that says a Christian must do so.

May God forgive us!

the mutual understanding between the couple is NOT as husband and wife BUT friends (with benefits). This doesn't NOT make such a relationship a Marriage relationship. Sexual relationship between this union is thus FORNICATION!

Of course, marriage does not need a formal legal, spiritual and social rules before it becomes a reality BUT let's call a spade a spade.

The couple cannot be JUST be friends and then begin to justify PREMARITAL Sex by feigning what they are not. This is Fornication!


Just a final Scripture:
John 4:17-18:
"The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: for thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband : in that saidst thou truly."
The last man seem to be just a mere boyfriend Don't you think so?

I'm sure you agree that a mutual consent for sex between exclusive couple DOES not make them Married!

OK o..

fairfora:
Your submission was vague, which you were only trying to back up with vague claims. I urge you read from verse 6, so you'd understand better what the whole teachings of paul was all about....MERCY.

concerning the Romans 9:23-24 I brought, I was only asking you a question, are the phrases"OBJECT OF HIS MERCY" and "EVEN US" one and the same thing?
I expected a straightforward answer of yes or no.

what is vague in asking a question?

And God said He would have mercy on whom He would have mercy and compassion on whom he'd have the same...and paul teaches further that we as human beings( His handiwork) cannot challenge God on that. It's only on whom He would show mercy (that is, the object of Hisercy) that He had prepared in advance for His glory, even Paul himself and the likes (which was why he said "EVEN US" ) who were called not only from the Jews (those who dont believe christ was the messiah until he came and left) but from gentiles (those known for persecuting Christians at that time, including paul himself, who used be called saul before he met Christ on the way to damascus while on same persecuting mission). Hope that's clear enough.

In summary, you have agreed that the phrases"OBJECT OF HIS MERCY" and "EVEN US" in the context of Romans 9:23-24 refers to one and the same thing?

Yes or no?

shadeyinka:
Because you wish to justify iniquity, you present scriptures where there was silence as per wedding ceremony.

No problem! I am willing to use the same rule with you.

In the two cases raised, the request for question was "marry me!".
Not let's be having sex until we get married!
Not let's be friends!

you are missing the point I'm making.

bf and gf should not be let's have sex until we get married, it should be instant marriage till death do the couple apart. (whether they will end up do their wedding ceremony or not in the future)

The society has adopted faulty principles that's why things are not going well with people

What is marriage?
Marriage is a Spiritual, Cultural and Legal union between a man and a woman for the purpose of living together as Husband and Wife.

no, there is nothing spiritual or legal about marriage, check your dictionary, marriage is simply agreement between the two to live together as one.
It now left for the couple involved to make their marriage spiritual or legal. making marriage spiritual or legal should not be a general idea.
For instance, atheists are not into anything spiritual but it is still their right to get married if they want, the world is a free world.

Any union that doesn't fulfill ALL this isn't marriage. I believe you know that marriage can occur without the church, the mosque or even the court of law.

how is marriage then spiritual if that is so?
Do you really know what it means to say something is spiritual?

Let me explain:
Spiritual : even when a man sleeps with a harlot, he becomes one(spiritually) with the harlot.

totally wrong, I don't know where Africans are getting this wrong diabolical concept from

This alone doesn't constitute marriage

if the man request from the harlot her hand in marriage right there on that bed of having sex with her and the harlot accept, marriage has started right there at that point. There is nothing anyone can do about it.

Cultural: When the cultural requirements are fulfilled (and their society recognise them as man and wife)
Legal: It henceforth becomes an offence for any other man or woman to violate the sexual intimacy between them.

as if you are not living in Africa and you don't see what is happening
The ones that has been violated and they are still violating till tomorrow what has culture and the law or legal systems done about them?
A man will abandon his wife and children leaving the woman to cater for the children alone and go for another woman right at the nose of the law and culture, and nothing will happen.

So, you see, it takes only the couple involved to keep to part of the agreement they had with one another for marriage to work, not any culture or legal system can make it work.

If you can show me either from the scriptures or otherwise where a couple is married and the three cardinal pivot are not present.

I have told you about David and Abigal, there was nothing like culture and legal systems, the bible recorded that Abigail followed Davids men to David immediately, and she became his wife.
Also, the moment Adam saw Eve, he declared, this flesh of my flesh and bone of my bone, from that moment she became his wife.
No culture,
No tradition,
No legal system,
No family,
Nothing.

Note: I'm not kicking against culture or legal system, these things should be optional.
Even me, i got wedded, white wedding in church, i did the traditional rites too. But all I'm saying is i cannot stand in the way of people who can't afford to do these things by bringing laws that they must do them before I recognize that they are married. If i should do a thing like that, that is nonsense!

Infact, in this issue of marriage it's a free world.
Everyone are entitled to do what they like, whether they want to do wedding ceremony or not. But what is important is the agreement the couple had and to willingly keep to that agreement till death do them apart.

bereto:
This is a wrong teaching and from the depths of hell
How do you measure their faithfulness if they've not openly declared it before God and man and even after that some are still not faithful.

who is doing the measure of faithfulness is it God or man?
Why will you as a man who never join the two together(because what God has joined together..) want to always take measurement of their faithfulness?
Can't you mind your business?

And moreover, couples who had wedded whose faithfulness were measured by men and were very happy during the wedding ceremony but inspite all that they ended up crashing the marriage, how was the measurement taking saved the marriage?

So, you see, it's not about the wedding and the ceremony and the show of love, it's about the agreement between the couple involved from day one they met each other.

I'm not kicking against wedding or marriage ceremonies ofcourse i love it too, i wedded my wife too. But all I'm saying is the society the church got it wrong the moment they started making it a law that one most perfom marital rites before they can be recognized as husband and wife, it was not so from the beginning.

KingWarri:
Na waoooh
Nothing we no go see...

See as dis one they turn bible upside down to justify e own stupid opinion -:\

so,the best thing to do na to come dey insult abi?

idiot!
Mumu!

Shame nor dey catch you?
Nothing were you no go see, now were you don see am what next?

My friend get out of ya!
Monkey

fairfora:
Bible is interpreted in different versions and I quote 1chorinthians 5:1 in a new international version which reads thus: " It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that even pagans do not tolerate: A man is sleeping with his father’s wife"

Here, paùl was admonishing his people to stop sexual immorality and a kind that a pagan (i.e. those who do not believe there's God ) do not even tolerate...(which is) "a man sleeping with his father's wife"

If you do not still understand that...then you need to ask God for knowledge.

please help me interprete this scripture.

Romans 9:23-24 New International Version (NIV)

23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory
24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

Is the scripture saying "OBJECT OF HIS MERCY" and "EVEN US " , that these two terms are exclusively independent of one another? meaning, OBJECT OF HIS MERCY and EVEN US are not referring to one and the same thing?

you can start reading it from verse 23 to get the picture of what the scripture is saying.

ZiriMane:
show me where you got this knowledge from.

1 Samuel 25:40 And when the servants of David were come to Abigail to Carmel, they spake unto her, saying, David sent us unto thee, to take thee to him to wife.
1 Samuel 25:42 And Abigail hasted, and arose, and rode upon an ass, with five damsels of hers that went after her; and she went after the messengers of David, and became his wife.

no marriage!!

Before then Read these scriptures and see God's view concerning marriage
Matthew 24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Matthew 25:10
And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Luke 17:27
They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luke 20:34
And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
John 2:1
And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
Hebrews 13:4
Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

I never said there are no marriage ceremonies in the bible.
All I'm letting you know is that, most marriages back then where based on the agreement between the couple, no marriage ceremony or formalities attach.
Example is 1 Samuel 25:42 I just quoted.
And God will approve such union and couple are known as husband and wife.

Now, let me ask you this question.
Will you support a situation where a man who is an average earner who does not have the finance to do the necessary marriage ceremony is asked to wait until he has the money before he can get married to the woman who has accepted to live with him?

fairfora:
You quoted out of ignorance, sorry. The bible verse itself is clear. Paul admonished them to refrain from fornication which the gentiles were known for, to the extent that they were having seex with their father's wife. Don't upturn the scripture ols

what do you mean by to the extent?

ZiriMane:
if you have a good command of simple English you wouldn't be saying this!
1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

note: have a wife or a husband to avoid fornication

Galatians 5:19
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Ephesians 5:3
But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;


Acts 15:29
That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

1 Corinthians 6:18
Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

my guy, people marry in bible days without any wedding ceremony.
bf and gf is relationship without any wedding ceremony.

Therefore bf and gf = marriage in bible days.

Do you get that?

shadeyinka:
I wish you had stated a verse to prove that when a man approaches a woman and she accepts marriage has started... For this is completely untrue.

Look at this

1 Samuel 25:40 And when the servants of David were come to Abigail to Carmel, they spake unto her, saying, David sent us unto thee, to take thee to him to wife.
1 Samuel 25:42 And Abigail hasted, and arose, and rode upon an ass, with five damsels of hers that went after her; and she went after the messengers of David, and became his wife.
no marriage

Did you see that?
This is just one example.

If I should start mentioning the cases of Isaac and Rebecca, Solomon and Queen of Sheba, Abraham and Sarah, Joseph and Mary(the mother of Jesus), there will be no space to put all these scriptures here.

How do you relate with this scripture:
Matt 5:31-32:
"It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife girlfriend , let him give her a writing of divorcement: but I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife girlfriend, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."

you shouldn't have problem with the word boyfriend or girlfriend they are married people so long they are into a committed relationship.(except they are not committed to the relationship that's where the problem comes)

Matthew 5:32 ..whosoever that put away his wife saving for the course of her having sex with her mother's husband or a relation(incest). (apply the definition of fornication in 1 Corinthians 5:1 here, you will understand what the scripture is driving at. There is so much sense in it, far better than applying unmarried people having sex )

Do you think this scripture makes sense with respect to boyfriend/girlfriend relationship or marriage?

there was nothing like boyfriend or girlfriend in bible days, but people were having sex the moment they are up to the age, perhaps 18 years and above.
boyfriend and girlfriend are just recent words used to describe friendship of the opposite sex which is still the same thing people do in bible days

jclassiq:
Do you sound sensible even to yourself?

what seems sensible to you humans is extreme foolishness before God.
You think God who created humans does not know what he created?

Adam who never had any wedding or engagement party with Eve yet she was called his wife, can you boldly say that was not sensible?

For your information, if you as a man impregnate a woman today without any marriage ceremony with her, the law demands that you provide for her fully as though you have wedded her.

You cannot abandon the pregnancy responsibility to her alone saying because i did not marry you.

kingmurainah:
How is that the truth?

read my last 3 comments on this thread

Kulas:
Please are you a child of God.Was shocked hearing you mention boyfriend/girlfriend.Is having boyfriend/girlfriend permitted biblically as a Child of God ?. I dont know what is going on in this generation that a child of God can bodly have boyfriend/girlfriend and claim its not a sin but a normal thing to do.Please repent if you are treading on this path and still claim child of God or born again.

can you please explain what is sinful about bf and gf of 18+ couples?

Hipsofagoddess:
What kind of devilish translation is this written with all boldness? Ignorance is truly a disease.

is that all?

fairfora:
Please quote the bible verse that supports your claim. Thanks

what do think my claim is?
Didn't you see the 1 Corinthians 5:1 I quoted?

shadeyinka:
Sex and sexual activities outside the confines of marriage in any form including between bf and gf is fornication.

The bible recommend a solution to sexual pressures: Go Marry not get a gf or bf!

1 Cor 7:9: "But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn."

in bible days, when a man approach a woman and she accept the relationship, marriage has started immediately.
bf and gf is not different from that unless the people involved in the bf and gf relationship are not talking the relationship seriously as marriage

damosky12:
This is error!
Fornication is having sex or lusting after someone you aren't married to.
Let's go to the Bible,

show me scripture that defined fornication this way

1 Corinthians 6:18-20
[18]Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

this scripture did not define fornication now. No definition of it here

[19]What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[20]For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

is this the definition of fornication?

What then does he mean by fornication? Let's follow it up in the next verses (in chapter 7)...

1 Corinthians 7:1-2
[1]Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. [OUTSIDE MARRIAGE]
[2]Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. [MARRIAGE]

why are you infusing MARRIAGE AND OUTSIDE MARRIAGE artificially in the scripture?
Please let the scripture take it national course.
If you look at the scriptures you quoted properly, obviously what Paul was trying to address was the issue of men sleeping with their father's wives going by the definition of fornication in 1 Corinthians 5:1(the only scripture that properly defined fornication as used in bible days)

1 Corinthians 7:1...Is it good for a man to touch a woman?(women including fathers wives as sleeping with fathers wife was very common among men in those days) .
1 Corinthians 7:2 therefore resolve that to avoid sleeping with your father's wife, let every man have their own wives.

I think this is not hard to understand now

Any sex OUTSIDE MARRIAGE is Fornication.

you are yet to bring one scripture to support this faulty stand

BF, GF sexual relationship is not the Bible relationship for man and woman. It's satanic to think so. MARRIAGE is the only means.

To make it clearer.

1 Corinthians 7:9
[9]But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

He didn't say, "if they can not contain, let them date". No!!!

MARRIAGE is the only relationship recognized for sexual relationship.

Anything OUTSIDE is of the devil.

and I'm telling you that the moment a man sees a woman and she agree to unite with him, marriage has started already, no further formalities. This is how marriage was in bible days.
bf and gf relationship is not different from this unless the couple involved are not taking the bf and gf relationship seriously as marriage.

Who corrupted your mind.

Did you see "SUCH FORNICATION" there?

read king James or see the screen shot marked with blue touch below

He is explaining the kind of fornication there...

See the AMPLIFIED version


It is actually reported [everywhere] that there is sexual immorality among you, a kind of immorality that is condemned even among the [unbelieving] Gentiles: that someone has [an intimate relationship with] his father's wife." — 1Cor 5:1

the sexual immorality(fornication in KJV) is simply sex with father's wife and nothing more

..is sex OUTSIDE MARRIAGE.

this do not in anyway reflect in the 1 cor 5:1, I don't know where you are getting it from.