₦airaland Forum

Its one of those difficult, catch 22 situations because it tackles albeit inefficiently unemployment and transportation both of which are big issues in Lagos and Nigeria in general. Secondly, unemployment is a macro problem - federal while transportation is a local problem so its not a joke at all. There's nothing Lagos state government can do in its present structure. It just has to invest in mass transit and this is certainly not the motorized version. It so ironic that while some countries in the west advocate for more cycling and motorbikes to reduce the environmental footprint we promote the exact opposite, yes motorbikes are more efficient; they pollute less per passenger per mile.

Consider this: 50% of vehicles in traffic jams on third mainland on any typical day has a driver an a snoring (pun) oga in the back seat. Convert these vehicles to a bikes and you could easily de-congest most roads. But to ban the Okada outright in Lagos, believe me is a scenario no one should imagine let alone implement. Why not dedicate some roads in the inner parts and lanes (on the highway) to them just like the BRT. And I mean just paint o the roads simple, that would make it mandatory for motor vehicles to give them a right of way. Make it safer and perhaps more people will take to bikes. Better for all of us. Yikes. .

[quote author=Tobi_dad link=topic=721657.msg8805176#msg8805176 date=1311836224]I stopped reading after your fantastic opening.
So now aides have been given fiat to generate their own pay and upkeep. sounds like medieval europe with lords and dukes being appointed over the land with the right to pillage and plunder the land. Where in God's name are they going to generate their funds if not from the impoverished masses.
Imo just got more silly again with governance.
Stop electing 'big men' and maybe you can eventually crawl out of your back-alley situation.
Enjoy your new found peasantry.
olodo[/quote]So where will Imo State get money to run Imo state. From World bank or Interest free banking. In those days our parents taught us to be hardworking, self sufficient and enterprising suddenly we are forced into a marriage with people (not mentioning names here) who don't share those values and have lost it. We have become something else. Today to generate your own income and work your way to wealth has become vile, evil, and undesirable and for government agents to handle governance like business is medieval. What has happened to us.

I tell you the present system of allocation spending has created more billionaires and has widened the gap between the 'haves' and the 'have nots' than anytime before Lord Lugard died. That is why people kill for political office. It is too attractive. It is the only avenue for the 'Nigerian dream' - pauper today, billionaire tomorrow - without sweat. You ask any state governor or public official to raise money for government, themselves or for us the public and 90% of them will be at sea. But they have a dossier of means and methods to steal and plunder their positions. I know we like that. Just a pity, but we must learn to let go.

FYI, Imo has some of the best crude in Nigeria so its not like they need to beg anyone.

Onlytruth:
LOL!

Governor Rochas Okorocha is a thoroughbred Igboman.
If you must eat, you must make YOUR own cake! hahaha!

I see thieves running away.

Well said. If only half of those in public service could enterprise this country will not be what it is. Is there an MDA that does not generate resources. Think about it. From defence, security to sports and entertainment. They do it for their pockets. They can do it for the government. Typical Nigerian thinking. If its not for me personally its not worth doing. Make them think for a season. make them sweat, make them wise, make them accountable and see whether Imo state will not be the first to enter into economic liberty from the contraption called Nigeria and its skewed mentality of waste occasioned by sloth.

I sure pray it works and serves as a model for government in general. We have to support anything that makes government and political office more progressive and less attractive to any but those willing to work hard and be accountable. Best news yet. If you are a 9 - 5 statistic in government maybe just maybe your days are numbered.

Fantastic. If this is true this is exactly what this country needs. A firm departure from the terrible mindset that government is a vehicle for milking resources. Imo state is surely open for business and yes government should be run with the same passion. What else will bring them to the office by 8 a.m Monday morning and keep them till five on Friday and away from unending funerals, weddings, naming ceremonies and the lot which clog the machinery of government.

Boy this man has risen to the top of governance in my opinion. Now they will know just how difficult it is to make money and the kind of effort you need to place before you can survive in this country. Let me see how they will pay for their retinue of servants, sub-servants and all the trappings of their offices. If he is to succeed Rochas should extend same to all government ministries, departments an agencies. Let them begin to generate a percentage of their expenses and slowly raise the threshold until some of these lazy civil servants begin to voluntarily quit one after the other. Every, every, every arm of government that interfaces with the public has indeed a potential of revenue generation. How do I know this?. Is there any M,D or A that you get anything for free in Nigeria 'seeing someone'. None. So let nobody say it is not possible.

Fantastic. Up Rochas. He,he,he

It is a reasonably good idea. The US dollar and propellant, the US economy is tanking fast so is logical but the truth is that the US remains by far the largest economy so this idea like many others is impracticable. For two reasons. One, what designates worlds currencies and their worth viz a viz other currencies and commodities remains trade. The US is by far the largest consumer of world products so you can expect them to pay with what they have don't we . Secondly, China which is the second largest and pressing hard for a 2025 (there about) take over is not likely to press for a standard they do not excel in. Gold is not just their thing and when they become top dog why would they prefer the gold over the Yuan as the world's reserve currency. That's why they are not pressing for it. They will have their currency very soon and the very smart (very long term) money would be stacking up the yuan instead of gold which is good now but can't last beyond 2015.

The truth is that you cannot demand for what you cannot supply. You cannot demand gold when you cannot supply economic growth, consumption or productivity so you may ask what is Nigeria doing there together with some of those countries whose only claim to world dominance is the number of barrels of oil under their footstools. That tet-a-tet should be between the big boys and we know them. Nigeria and her leaders should rather expend their energies on making us relevant by nothing more than sheer hardwork and enterprise so we can survive in the coming conglomeration of nationalistic economic forces that if we cannot manage could reduce us to nothing but mineral supplying slaves.

Haba, it is the sign of times. Every major church north of the Niger is guarded by armed security agents. Passed MFM in Utako, Abuja last sunday and there were Army chaps with full battle gear. Churches have begun to erect barricades around their premises in volatile areas and some are installing blast doors. If the government and churches can go this length to protect lives and property what makes the leaders of these churches who are confirmed targets any different.

That picture was taken in Jos not too long ago and you need to be a christian going to church on sunday in any state in the north to understand, unfortunately most of us don't. The threat is real. Many churches have been burnt, many lives lost including those of pastors and other leaders and here we are making mockery and trivializing the serious religious divisions and challenges we confront these days.

When the sceptre moves against the Christians you are free to change your faith and name. You can be sure Adeboye won't be the first. No everything is trivial or a joke. The other side is real and serious.

Sir Kay:
Copied these comments from myjoyonline.com.

funny little world
Posted By: kwaku ,   7/25/2011 1:42:07 PM
Location: china
i do not blame anyone but the deportees themselves. what are they still doing in nigeria. a country where they easly throw bombs at will for no reson to kill inocent people and any of you could be killed anytime ?

this is very disgusting cos most of the nigerian citizens themselves are hiding their nigerian nationality anywhere they go due to the hatred they have created for themselves.

however the deportees must be checked if they are not involved in any activities that are agaist the laws of that contry, otherwise they will leave to regret this.
 

 
Ghanaians deported from nigeria
Posted By: kafui dovlo ,   7/25/2011 1:45:38 PM
Location: TESHIE NUNGUA A-LIFE LAST STOP
I WANT TO TELL THE PRESIDENT 2 ACT NOW BECAUSE I HAVE THIS NIGERIANS IN MY HOUSE AND ALL THEY DO IS THIS SACAWA THING. THEY MUST NOT STAY IN OUR COUNTRY . THE PRESIDENT SHOULD ACT NOW. IF THEY HAVE DEPORTED YOUR PEOPLE WE SHOULD ALSO DO LIKEWISE. WE MUST NOT SIT AND WAIT FOR ANY NEGOTIATION SINE THEY DID NOT NEGOTIATE WITH US BEFORE DEPORTING OUR PEOPLE. A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH, AN EYE FOR AN EYE.
GOD BLESS GHANA, GOD BLESS MR. PRESIDENT.
 

 
Deportation from Nigeria?
Posted By: kk ,   7/25/2011 1:12:50 PM
Location: Accra
Daily Guide ,for the first time I don't believe this story? Why should Ghanaians be deported from Nigeria? I should be the order way round.  
 

 
I miss Busia paaaaaaaaaaaaa today.  
Posted By: TIMOTHY ,   7/25/2011 12:25:53 PM
Location: KUMASI
What? Nigerians are really ungrateful. I can't believe what am reading. I wish we could bring Busia back to take care of these ungrateful Nigerians. This is just unbelievable.
If anyone had said that looking at the way things are between Ghana and Nigeria today, such a thing would happen, I wouldn't believe it. An ungrateful person cannot be a friend.

What might have triggered this? Is it our recent victory over them on the football field? That was just a game but even that the ungratefuls claimed we used juju.  
 

 
Do we reciprocrate
Posted By: Efua ,   7/25/2011 12:27:49 PM
Location: NJ
What is our government doing about this. Ministry of Interior please take note. There are thousands of Nigerians in Ghana today taking refuge as we once did and were sent packing during the Shagari era, Nigeria continue to mess with us and take our hospitality for granted. There is no ECOWAS for greater West Africa. What does the ECOWAS states, any member of ECOWAS could stay in any West African country for at least 90 day and he or she decides to extend their stay regularize their paper. Are all the Nigerians trooping to Ghana to do business legally in Ghana. This deportation of our citizens cannot continue.  
 

 
oh our neighbors.
Posted By: naa ,   7/25/2011 12:28:13 PM
Location:  
why? imagine the Ghana government do the same or USA ? not fair coming from our neighbors.
 

 
What An Insult?
Posted By: WILLIE ,   7/25/2011 12:08:04 PM
Location: ACCRA
Is it time we sent them back to where they came from. Ghana is too friendly even to her "enemies". Nigerians have taken over almost every facet of our lives in Ghana and yet still we look on unconcerned. They steal, rob, violation, and insult us in our own land. Now look at how they are treating us?

Look, it is time we send these ungrateful lot back to their basket case country. This is very annoying, to put it mildly. How friendly can we be to gain their reciprocity?  
 

 
Please Act quickly
Posted By: AJ ,   7/25/2011 12:03:16 PM
Location: Accra
What is this i am reading now? Has it come to this? i really dont know what is going on but the authorities MUST get involved quickly before this get out of control because reading this alone is getting me upset.
 

 
This Nigeria Nonsense Must Stop
Posted By: Sam ,   7/25/2011 11:31:04 AM
Location: Accra
We Ghanaians are too soft and other African countries see us as such. They take us for a fool. we stay unconccern for our natinals to be multreated by other african, especially west african nations. we have to stand up, nigerians must be more than us in numbers but not in wisdom, strenght and intellegience. have flooded our universities, markets and so on.we are too soft that is why all this nonsens is happening to us. this madness must stop.  
 

 
NIGERIANS MUST GO  
Posted By: PASCAL MOHAMMED ,   7/25/2011 11:17:43 AM
Location: MADINA
WE SHOULD ALSO RETALIATE THE SAME WAY. NIGERIANS HAVE OVER STEPPED THE BOUNDARIES.

JUST LOOK AT THE KIND OF CRIMES WE ARE WITNESSING IN GHANA BY NIJA PEOPLE.

WE DONT NEED THEM IN GHANA. THEY ARE BUNCH OF CRIMINALS.

Posted By: Ama ,   7/25/2011 9:07:25 AM
Location: Accra
I think the Government of Ghana should also deport nigerians from Ghana espercially those traders at Okaishie biscuit lane and opera square. Also no nigerian should be allowed to cross the Ghanaian border at Aflao. No nigerian plane should also be made to land in Ghana. Who do these nigerians think they are? They are stealing and misbehaving in our country. They shoul be made to go back to their 'chaka chaka' country

Ah, ah. If this is the way these people feel about us then why are we falling over ourselves on this thread to torpedo the move. This is engine failure on take-off. Haba.

Eko Ile:
Do you really think the thousands of folks heading to the different construction sites everyday are not getting paid, paying taxes and contributing to the state's economy?

What about the folks getting paid and paying taxes just by providing goods and services like food and other needs to the same thousands of people engaged in this projects?

The number 1 catalyst for economic growth is construction and Kaduna remains the major economic powerhouse in the Northern Nigeria.

True but this constitutes internal revenue generation which all of them states complain is insufficient to deliver facilities and maintain those existing. Or are we saying all roads, drains, water, power, sewage lines in Kaduna are okay and then insufficient to warrant expansion.

What I'm saying and the question before them is clear. How do you keep these roads, these buildings in shape. We have not figured out these yet. How do you maintain them when you are over stretched on the upside i.e. expansion, creating new ones. For instance, if you plan to build 100 km of roads a year, by the tenth year or so (when they get bad) you will be building 200 km of roads a year. This is a pickle even the Federal government has not been able to sort out with 45% allocation, what do you expect states to do.

If you visit or live in the FCT, great city, fantastic (by our standards) infrastructure. But what worries some people is how to keep it that way perpetually. Roads, drains and sewage lines in the older parts of the city are already cracking up and there's no move to handle them now. The airport and northern ring roads reconstruction and expansion have already shaken the government so badly that PPP is proposed for new zones. This is the real question and that which faces states most of which have to contend with rising recurrent costs as well.

It is not a joke. The Lagos state government has tried the PPP route on the Lekki axis but has met with stiff resistance. Why? I'm sure the government must be scratching its head thinking of how it will bridge infrastructural maintenance gap. These problems are real. The government has to square the circle. It has to find another way of doing it. So building new ones must be a very serious consideration if they have any foresight. It has to be really needed, come cheap and be affordable so that government can hands off albeit permanently. That's my view.

Eko Ile:
Kaduna is building a new city from scratch and their budget for 2011 is N136.5bn. Though I'm sure they are getting additional financing from other sources.

This is an example, a model of what the initiators think is development but is it really development. Is it people initiated and driven? Can they afford it. Did they ask for it. Can they pay to keep it. Does it relieve some pressure somewhere. Is it an asset. Is it appreciated. Is it progressive. Is it needed. If it is, then government can build it and walk away knowing a Dubai, Newyork or Shanghai has been created but if it (as I suspect) an allocation fuelled joy ride for someone to make it and someplace to look cool then government has just signed away its paltry resources to the gods of eternal road patching and endless maintenance.

I don't think city centres worldwide undertake such radical alterations the way we do things here. The skyline across Paris during yesterdays Tour (de France)' end shows not much has changed. What they have they take care of. Because they see development in holistic light and not a government versus people thing. Real development (not middle eastern petro-fuelled models) are systematic and deliberate. Shanghai has moved fast but what we see today is not a ten year job.

Amaechi and the likes must make the average man partake in his own development. People must be aware of what is happening all around them. What is available and what it takes to provide the means for their livelihood. Only then can it be supported, appreciated and ultimately maintained and enhanced.

I've seen this type of scenario times without number from all parts of Nigeria and I must just conclude that its not easy. And I must advocate that for this country or any of the constituent territories to realise any form of sound development there must be a synergy between leaders and the led. Believe me most people often over simplify this project called Nigeria. It is not easy.

For starters who is responsible for the bad state of the roads, Amaechi alone, no. He alone cannot supervise. That is why he is paying people to do this but when they gang up and sabotage the efforts then what do you do. I bet some people (even on this website) are partakers directly or indirectly of the corruption Nigerians in positions of authority partake. Even if Amaechi gave the job to his dog can't you make sure it is properly done and make noise if you can't do your job. But because corruption is so endemic - top to bottom, projects suffer.

We may say give Berger the job, fine but they factor the corruption into their pricing and that's one reason their projects are expensive and just how many roads or kilometers of drains will the state afford before the vault is empty. This is where we the people come in with a choice as to what we want. We can either choose to do stuff for ourselves or literally pay for it. Unfortunately Amaechi is mixing both. Most politicians mix both. He wants quality but needs quantity because of we 'ace grumblers'. Just look at the posts and the chronicles of woe. If Julius Berger was to rebuild all Port-harcourt (a city) it will still take them the best part of a decade to do so with all the money and good intentions.

Unfortunately this is not so and this is why I am not an admirer of this model of our development, this allocation/contracting one. I believe development should be people driven. I like the farming model. You eat and enjoy what you are able to sweat. How. All the people complaining and in dire need of infrastructure should pick up their shovels and get to work or send their servants and slaves to do the job - kind of scenario. The Chinese model.

Yes we need all the roads in Port-harcourt to be done this night. Yes he gets one trillion naira a second as allocation. But this does not equate to development. I have said it before. Across the nation we will never be free from this problem no matter who rules us. I foresee a situation where all governors, ministers and the likes are perpetually in a road repairing, drain digging, pipe laying, wiring stringing gridlock all the days of our lives. It is just not a sustainable model. Nigerians just demand what they are not prepared to sacrifice for. We cannot just take our eyes of corruption. The current state of affairs is a true reflection of what our average minds are able to contain. Its a pity.

Without trying to sour the soup in any way I would like us to open a debate on how to effect the kind of development we so desire. Let's for once by pass our well published political imbalances. Say if for instance Rivers state was totally independent from the centre and what it gets now is 100 % derivation how would you (as guv.) for instance develop the state. How would you turn Portharcourt to Dubai, NewYork or perhaps karachi.

Bawss1:
There are dozens of companies that can supply handcuffs and other security equipment. The police should just place a tender for all they need, the funds will be made available if the government is serious about fighting crime. No need to come to the press and tell all.

Abi oh, or they should have called a conference of their constituents, professional and part-time baddies to announce their predicament. Can't even buy N 50 straps. Think they need to place cranial inspection and replacement in those tenders too.
As for arms and ammunition they need less not more. My goodness what have they done with those they have beyond hurt.

rahouf1:
the Government are the causes of these reluntant of the police officer, firstly govt should encourage the police by  motivation,promotion.
atleast our police officer should be given the priviledge to have a training in an advance country to learn more about security issue.
If police officer are getting remunerated like the senator then you will see how they will carryout their operation accordingly.
Our police are not encouraged by the govt at all, 3months training should be implemented all the time and must involve the like CIA,FBI and other intelligent agencies.

Typical Nigerian thinking. Just throw money at the issues until it goes away, and who says senators are shinning lights of diligence. Real funny.

odiaero:
Do them Georgia Goverment style, where almost all the force men were sacked, and change that thier black uniforms to something brown, that black uniforms is a nightmares to many Nigerians

Hmmm, serious suggestion but errrr, they were in blue before black, perhaps we should go for white complete with a Bishop's crook and papal top hat.

For me I suggest free and compulsory brain transplant and good cosmetic surgery to cover the scars.  

We don't want them. They should just stay out of this. They have enough issues on their plate. This is not their kind of conflict.

I'm relieved some Nigerians are beginning to understand what is happening. What this country is all about. And perhaps where we may all be heading very soon if certain issues are not sorted out. The last elections and indeed the transition to civil rule has put this country under a firm microscope. I mean no harm whatsoever.

Mr. Manager, opening the Niger for traffic is not a destination but a journey. As you sit in your office rainfall is busy re-silting the place. That is why the much hyped provision of infrastructure is not an isolated procedure but must be done in conjunction with the private sector and in the interest of the people. The nature of that river is similar to clearing your farm of weeds then spending weeks looking for seeds to plant. Stand by for another multi-billion naira contract to do it all again. The maintenance of that river is a private thing. Good cart before horse. Enjoy the ride.

Ibime:
A revenue allocation formula which is based on population is useless. The only revenue allocation formula of interest to me is one based on contribution.

I don't know how to thank you for this. Haba, a fifty year old man squabbling with daddy about a progressive piggy bank. The day we rid ourselves from this allocation/contracting mentality this country or whosoever is willing can move forward. The energies and expenses these governors go through in settling allocation matters could better be served in finding money to fund their activities. How they think any man can ever develop by begging and handouts just beats the hell out of me. Honestly.

Still not clear exactly what these people want.

I think this thread should be closed. I hate nostalgia. Its very depressing.

[quote author=tpia@ link=topic=717823.msg8762375#msg8762375 date=1311268807]is it just me or did nigerian men use to be more handsome.

the women also look fresher but its the different look of the men which really stands out.[/quote]My dear, even in war we looked better than we are today with our so called accumulated wealth. Have you noticed garbage in any picture. Today we cannot even sweep our streets.

apoti:
Now we can't even make our own toothpick  

That is what I call progress . A ; All we have added to these pictures is a larger population, period. Every other factor of social development has degenerated.

Its a bit disappointing. Hands on people usually require less assistance. I understand it is politics. If only he could make them work and output more than its costs to maintain them. Only if.

kalokalo:
Nigerians are inward socialists. They prefer everything to be provided by the government. All the problems listed on this thread are investment opportunities for savvy entrepreneurs. Unfortunately we complain in frustration about it for decades e.g. telecoms until South Africans came to solve this problem and are carting billions back to their country.

Electricity supply, water supply, housing, healthcare, education,waste management, agriculture etc are all investment opportunities that private firms with long-term outlook will reap bountifully from considering that they are basic necessities with inelastic demand. The government only need to chip in with enabling laws and policies.

As far I'm concerned, the only thing our governments should focus on are (1) law and order (2) Enforcement of contracts. Every other things should be private sector / commercially driven albeit subject to regulatory oversight. Experience has taught us over 50 years of independence that the Nigerian state is too inept and corrupt to provide any goods and service well. They should leave it to the private sector.

This is exactly why this country CANNOT develop. If its not for me, my wife, my family and my dog then let government do it. Incidentally the same thoughts go through government officials, so.

kalokalo:
That's why i said the government needs to chip in with enabling laws and policies that points to a strategic vision. There are a lot of anti investment laws in our statute books that needs to be repealed.

An example is the Land Use Act which without being repealed will cause us to never have mass access to  mortgages/housing/properties.  Another example is the Railways Act of 1955 which bars private investment in railways (as an analogy, imagine if the only airline in Nigeria is Nigeria Airways).

On a final note, funding to do serious long term business in Nigeria cannot come from within Nigeria. Ask the IOCs, telcos, Dangote, Oando etc. Nigerian banks will only grant notes of short-term tenor at usurious interest rates. Serious investors will need to procure funds from outside Nigeria

Why can't we so stuff for ourselves. Are our capabilities only limited to population expansion, haba. Investment is for expansion. Establishment which primarily includes the will to do things comes from within. Britain was well into World War II before calling on America for help. I never knew the Chinese runaway economy was triggered by the West even though they need Western technology, African minerals and European markets to fuel it. In short no one will develop you. You have to do so yourself.

Isn't one of the conditions for taking a loan the need to have a sound plan and a robust track record. What is ours. It is far easier for them foreigners to push their own companies into Nigeria than to give us raw cash. But when they see a nation of billionaires corruptly stashing money in their banks and a people who don't want to pay for anything,

I thought we will be asking them what they can do. They are incapable of doing these. Haba.

VolvoS60:
^^^^

sir,

would you care to explain your comments a bit further? are you absolving mr babalakin? the government? or both?

No Volvo, no one is Mr. Babalakin of issues here. Yes, he is one rotten con man, seeking to reap where he did not sow. Bad, bad man but we have not created alternatives for ourselves. We remain a nation where people seek individual advantage. We have no corporate structure. We are unable to do basic things for ourselves. If those who claim to rule over us seek only of themselves must everyone follow this model. I repeat a single defaulter does not make a business un-viable. None of those distressed banks was brought down by a single individual or a single investment. Even CBN won't permit that level of risk but why is it so hard to move forward.

If like a poster rightly affirmed banks have tried to take over MM2 and have bee prevented because of government corruption the that's where the problem lies, government. So we should be moving away from them rather and seeking alternatives rather than cozing up and depending on them. Dunno you but as we speak these same government and its corrupt operatives are raising their wages and paying for it with our taxes and collective wealth. Will everyone enjoy this raise, no but everyone will feel its negative impact - that is less and less money to provide infrastructure.

Why is it that Nigerians only excel in things that only personally benefit them. Zenith bank has done up the street in V.I. around its corporate hq. for which there's no benefit. Why can't it provide funds for the even much more along the expressway for which tolls can be paid and revenues generated. I don't get it. We Nigerians sometimes behave like the battered housewife that returns time and time again to her abuser. When are we going to get it that since government has seen we can provide ourselves with electricity, water, security and the lot they expect a natural progression to roads as well. Or when will we get it that it is better for a hundred people to gather together and buy themselves a 100 kva generator than purchase one unit 'I pass my neighbour' each.

Its very hard to determine but if there are about 150 million souls in this country and they spend an average of 200 naira a day on food (as a thread reported earlier) then we are assuming a total food bill of 30 billion a day and something like 11 trillion naira per annum. Now we may argue that with a vast proportion earning less than (1 US dollar) 155 naira a day how is this possible and counter it with the fact that a lot of people earn that low but grow some of their own food then it might just be possible. Now just how much of this is imported, dunno. But a pantry worth 33 trillion over 3 years (2007 - 2010) is a far cry from the figures bandies about by dear minister. That's just hogwash. Hope it isn't a smoke screen for shady deals and illegal capital flight.

Hate doing individuals but if this is competition thank God's its positive for once. Rochas is doing a great job. Good there are precedents in Fashola. He can improve on what Lagos has done and avoid the failures of the Lagos state government also. I just wish him the best.

pak:
God bless 'reference' - insert real name here.

You've made some great points there.

I just believe there is so much sycophancy both within and outside government amongst the decision makers in this country.

However, i still do think that the average nigerian worker earns too low. When your take home at the end of the month can not cover your basic needs then we have a situation in our hands.


This chart from the UN shows that almost 80% of nigeria still live below poverty line less than N200($1.25)/day.



By the way, are you an economist or pol. Scientist and do you work in abuja ?

Hmm, yes but which employer pays to cover your needs. Salaries are set in proportion to earnings in normal establishments. That is why I like that post (was it you) about the lack or need of a differential between states and territories. Taking your position about needs for instance why should a worker in Ibadan and Lagos earn the same, when the cost of living isn't equal or why should a worker in Benin earn the same as one in Port-harcourt (both ND) when the cost of living is in-equal. Can the Edo state government raise (earn) the same revenue as the rivers state government, no. But these poorer states gullibly sign on all in the name of welfarism not knowing that it is they that need more money to build their infrastructure and attract the kind of investments that these bigger cities have. So by paying what they don't have they inadvertently become poorer.

Secondly we don't operate an open economy. We are in a solar system where government is the sun and every sector revolves around it. It is very much a zero sum game. Haven't you noticed when the budget isn't announced even the private sector suffers. Not to much because of the recurrent votes but particularly the capital vote. We are essentially an economy of trading and contracting and less of production so if you have massive flows of funds from capital to recurrent expenditure the private sector suffers most. Less contracts and supplies and more defaulting. How then can the private sector then match salary increases.

Just look at the landscape and consider when was the last time you saw a completed project. The current investment gap is now something like 3 to 5 trillion naira. So companies in engineering, extraction and the rest are downsizing or stagnating salaries. Okonjo Iweala said it, the recurrent budget will destroy this country if we cannot do something about it. The public sector (political and administrative) cannot continue to consume 60 - 70% of what this country earns. It just isn't fair.

On another thread yesterday we were debating the PPP deal on the Lagos-Ibadan expressway and I said it there, with the way things are going, except the government helps the private sector finds the funds to reconstruct that road (and others around the country) roads many never be repaired in our life times. They simply don't have the money to do so except to borrow or deplete the foreign reserves (both of which will sink the naira).

The British PM is here. No useless talk shop. They said he came with a plane load of businessmen. Jonathan should call Bi-Courtney and other Nigerian prospectors together with serious banks and dialogue with these businessmen on how to raise capital for our capital projects. Let them do it on a commercial basis and we will pay. After all our salaries have been increased, haven't they.

BlueDiva:
@pak
You"ve made a lot of sense.

Increasing the salary of civil servants would not lead to inflation because civil servants are just a fraction of the workforce of the nation.

Increasing the income of both government and private workers will be what would lead to inflation, since then, they would be too much money in circulation, which then affects the demand and supply curve.

My opinion though.

I think they are a bit more than a small fraction if you consider the formal private sector. The private sector is large but not that large and certainly not large enough to avoid the influences of public sector changes. There are many parastatals that exert huge pressure on private sector wages - the teaching profession, the medical profession, and others where there is some sort of competition. But overall it is not the number that matters but the differentials and our attitude towards money. Believe me with the exception of fuel and telecoms most of the basic items of real consumption are controlled by those who donot have a grasp of the kind of economic knowledge you will need to stave off inflation. Take a look at your typical monthly bill - food, transport, accommodation take away up to 80% of the average disposable income. They are controlled largely by (sorry to say so) the uneducated who only know that government is in charge, government is causing them hardship and government having increased salaries must pay.

Unfortunately government has not done anything favorably to appease these groups. Cost of construction remains high due to poor infrastructure, not refineries to mitigate international oil price shocks and inadequate facilities and agro inputs for farmers so there's no incentive whatsoever to keep the prices of these basic services in check.

We have long heard the sound bite ' No be the same market we dey go'. Unfortunately its very true.

pak:
Is it just me ?
or
do i need more education on this issue.

I think the importance of increasing the minimum wage has been over-bloated by our labor leaders to serve their own purposes/ego.

I TOTALLY AGREE THAT THE INCOME OF MOST NIGERIAN WORKERS IS JUST TOO LOW.

But is the solution just to give everybody(worker) more money, I seriously do not think so.

I am not an Economist but my basic knowledge of economics tells me that
Increasing salaries ACROSS BOARD do not improve the standard of living of the populace, why ?

because at the end of the day we'll still buy from the same markets, rent from the same set of available accommodation and send our kids to the same pool of schools and you know what happens next, the forces of demand and supply do their trick.

If a section of the workforce e.g. the police have their salaries increased,(I believe this is important, considering the sensitive nature of their work, that's why many of them are damned corrupt, and while we are at it, we can also increase the minimum qual. and training for the force - my thoughts)
then we can talk of marked improvemnts in standard of living of that group.


I remember back in sec. sch when many used to claim that Nigeria is rich enough to improving the living standards of the citizen by distributing N1m to each and every Nigerian
I felt that line of thinking sounded silly, I still think so now.
The sad part is that even educated people still believe in such bunkum.

General increases in salary only increases the money in circulation and even some economist will argue that it has adverse effects on employment.
I think the emphasis should be on IMPROVED INFRASTRUCTURE, POWER , ACCESS TO HEALTH CARE, GOOD QUALITY ACCOMMODATION/EDUCATION AT AFFORDABLE PRICES, SECURITY etc. .

Increasing money in circulation will only benefit those who control the economy - THE RICH (yeah, you heard me right). The resources will still flow back to them.

They control the markets and the money ends up in the market, right ? ? ?

I remember way back then, My mum earned less than N400 per month, but guess what, she paid the school fees of like four kids, paid for accommodation (3 bedroom flat in lagos) and other living expenses with that salary. Now a N400 can only fetch you a plate of garri (not even enough for pounded yam).

I think (from my little knowledge of economy that the best situation will be to have little money in circulation but with a very high purchasing power. In that way, the impact of poverty will be felt less, cos little will achieve much).

I will so much appreciate contribution from seasoned/knowledgeable folks on economics. I am always willing to bow to superior knowledge.
but pls dont respond to this post with the line that senators are earning 100000000000000000000naira/second. Cos simply, if the earnings of the political class is too high, then simple solution is to have it decreased (seems more logical to me , or am I missing something here).
but to use that as a justification to increase the minimum wage of the remaining 100 million Nigerians is simply anarchy, Truth is at the end of the day, the percentage increases in their own paypack will always outstrip yours and the vicious cycle continues.

If the minimum wage was about ensuring parity between civil servants and their private counterpart (I have my opinions on this too but that's a topic for another day), then maybe the whole brouhaha might have some points.
but I dont think that's the goal anyway.


So I'll like to hear from you guys, I mean logical takes not just the sentiments or shouts of 'we are hungry, we are hungry'. I think we need a more intellectual approach.



PS: and I also think the agitation for the uniform implementation of the minimum wage across states is unfounded. I mean some days back i decided to get some condiments to fry eggs (dont mind me, I just love fried eggs)
and in the town where I am presently, N30 worth of tomatoes,pepper . . .  was TOO MUCH, had to tell the seller to reduce it, that I didnt need that much.
That same set of goods will cost you about N150 in abuja (ain't kidding), so the issue is if the market realities in each and every locality is different, how do you now use the same yardstick to determine how organisations (both Govt and private) pay their staff. In the US, each state determines its own minimum wage so why not Nigeria, why not let each develop at its own pace.
Why should Katsina (for example) forced to keep up with Lagos or Ekiti forced to have the same policies as Adamawa. ? ? ?

Agree with most of this except this (bolded). And this depends on from what perspective you view it. Most Nigerians unfortunately consider what they afford as a basis for the bottom-line. But this is wrong because you should rather consider what you produce. If you don't you create an imbalance which is called inflation.

Consider this scenario. A farmer has a piece of land and earns 1,000 naira a month cultivating cassava. He can do three things to raise his disposable cash - cultivate more land, raise his prices or borrow. Generally these options are mutually exclusive, i.e. it is very unlikely if you get into one, you'd like to take the other option. Nigeria has found itself in a position where because it has been perpetually locked in option 3, it has not been able to take options 1 properly, and is very dependent on others for 2.

If you want to find out the true state of economics in Nigeria, the private sector is a more realistic barometer. When the going is good they expand, when it is rough they contract. Does this happen with the public sector, no. Government and its wage bill has spiraled well out of control while real industries, real companies and the private sector workers have largely been thrown into the employment claptrap.

That is why today we have reached a situation where most states cannot pay this new wage without icing over capital development. However I don't really pity government, it employed these fellows in the first place. As we speak there are interviews being conducted left, right and centre into various institutions - the military, police services, NNPC, etc. To me this is just piling up problems for the future. They are not needed. The test of employment, promotions and wage increases should be productivity. Anything else is futile. Now it is not as if everything in government works - there is no electricity, security, bad roads, no steel from Ajaokuta (in those days yet salaries were paid). What are you increasing salaries for.

This only creates inflation and transfers incredible stress to the private sector and worst of all imbibes a mindset that promotions are a time based thing only and wage increases relate to cost of living. I have friends in the private sector who have been on fractional salaries for ages now for not meeting targets - a consideration for increases non existent, but that is the reality. Some companies have limits. When the wage bill exceeds a certain percentage of income they start sacking immediately. That is the reality. Like I said yesterday I would be surprised if the savoury effects of this increase are felt beyond October.

Those of us who try to do our bit are poised to increase prices too because private sector workers are Nigerians too and if we struggle to push more stuff to the markets (because of high operating costs) then prices have to go up. We say it again 'when are we going to strike to have our infrastructure fixed, when.'

texazzpete:
This is utter balderdash. As someone said earlier, isn't the biggest fraud securing the concession without locking down the financing, thereby ensuring the road remains in a state of disrepair while you can point fingers elsewhere? Why should we not criticize the Federal Government for failing to revoke the concession when work has failed to start?

I don't give a rat's arse about 'our own'. I care about the road being fixed, be it by a chinese or sri lankan fellow, I do not care. The people who ply that road will thank whoever fixes the road.

Government is not exempt from abuse over this, the Bi-courtney guy is not exempt and even Pastor Adeboye needs to re-examine his role in matters like this one. Giving credence to conspiracy theories by a known crook is not a wise thing indeed, and certainly not exemplary behaviour.

Fine, so we go back to contracting. Satisfied.

[quote author=haka_nai link=topic=715325.msg8747307#msg8747307 date=1311090141]^^^^ Like the women below abi !!!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7945820.stm
Nigerian militants 'violation women'
Niger Delta militants
Gangs of jobless youth join gangs in the Niger Delta to make money

A victim of a horrific attack in Nigeria's Niger Delta has described how gunmen violated pregnant women hijacked from two passenger boats.

The gunmen took at least five women from the boats to a camp deep in the creeks of the swampy oil region and brutally violated them, the military said.

The women were forced to lie down on the ground while the gunmen sang and danced around them, one victim said.

It is the first time that a Delta attack like this has been made public.

Two of the women were pregnant, a military spokesman said.

A security source says one of the women has since died of her injuries but this has not been independently confirmed.


They were ferocious and bloody, they took us away, and we heard they were taking us to their camp - when I heard that I thought I'd never come back
30-year-old violation victim
The attack happened on Saturday after two passenger boats were hijacked on their way from Bonny Island to Port Harcourt the capital of Rivers State.

"They told us not to lift up our eyes. I began crying to God," a 30-year-old woman told the BBC.

Begged

The attackers put guns against the heads of the men in the boat and forced them to jump into the water.

Some begged the gunmen to drop them off on land as they couldn't swim.

Five of the passengers forced into the water are unaccounted for, a military spokesman said.

"They were ferocious and bloody, they took us away, and we heard they were taking us to their camp - when I heard that I thought I'd never come back," the woman told the BBC at the headquarters of the Joint Military Taskforce in charge of security in the Delta.
map

The men forced them onto the floor and danced around them before gang-Desecrating them, she said.

Other women were taken to another camp where they were violated, according to military spokesman Lt Col Sagir Musa.

He said he did not know exactly how many women were violated by the gunmen, only that five had sought medical treatment after the attack on Saturday.

They refused to give details about how the women were rescued.

Kidnapping, robbery, hijacking and violation are common in Nigeria's Niger Delta where years of poor government has led to a collapse in the rule of law.

But this attack is believed to be the first time so many women have been kidnapped and systematically violated after a passenger boat hijack.

Numerous armed groups roam the maze of mangrove swaps and creeks.

Jobless youths join the militant groups looking for money from kidnapping, extortion from multinational oil companies and oil theft.

Some like the Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta (Mend), a loose affiliation of militant gang leaders, claim they are fighting for a better deal from Nigeria's oil for the inhabitants of the Delta.

But analysts say most groups doing the kidnapping and robbing are not motivated by any political struggle, and are actually criminal gangs, known as "cults" who act as hired muscle for politicians, traditional leaders and oil thieves.

http://www.iwilltalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=264
Militants violation 28 female NYSC members

Postby BigBrother on Sat Oct 25, 2008 2:49 pm
This is quite despicable. I can't imagine completing your studies in the university and then exposing yourself to severe risks because of some outdated government scheme. Unfortunately we cannot do anything about it as the government lacks the will power to admit the irrelevance of the scheme now. Imagine the scar on these 28 young ladies for the rest of their lives? :cry:

Some unidentified gunmen suspected to be militants on Thursday violated 28 female youth corps members in Abonnema, a town in Akuku Toru Local Government Area of Rivers State.
A source said the militants invaded the residence of the corps members, who were posted to the town on primary assignment, and rounded up the ladies. He said the suspected militants went into every flat, Desecrating the women at gunpoint after which they fled through the waterfront. He noted that Abonnema residents had been constantly terrorised by gangsters who relocated to the area after they were sacked from some of their locations in the creeks.
He said, “These boys are not fighting the Niger Delta cause. How can they fight the Niger Delta cause, when they continue to terrorise the people they are supposed to fight for? Abonnema has become a war front and people are fleeing their homes. Now, they violation women and threaten elders. They invaded homes of some female corps members and violated them at gunpoint.”

Militants violation 28 female youth corps members
This is the kind of madness I'm talking about existing in Nigerians. What's the correlation between corp members and fighting for resource control. I feel so heartbroken for the unfortunate corp members.


Militants kill two policemen, kidnap three EPCL managers
By Soni Daniel, Port Harcourt
Saturday, 2 Jun 2007



Share
click to expand image
Dr. Edmund Daukoru, Energy Min

Daring Niger Delta militants on Friday stormed the residence of Indians working for the Eleme Petrochemical Company and took away eight persons to an unknown destination.

The militants, according to police sources, put up a fierce gun battle with security agents guarding the premises and killed two policemen before disappearing with their victims.

Eyewitnesses said the incident, which occurred around 2am, shook the residents of Elelenwo, near the police station, which the militants bombed on April 14, 2007 and killed a policeman. Friday’s victims included three top managers of the EPCL, three women and their two children, who were forced out of their homes.

Rivers State Deputy Commissioner of Police, Mr. Bassey Inyang, confirmed the attack in a telephone interview with our correspondent and said that investigations into the matter had begun.

The two Indians, who were seized from the same compound by militants on May 19, 2007, are yet to be freed despite pleas by the workers of the Indorama EPCL.

The militants stormed the residence and detonated bundles of dynamite on the gate before moving in to abduct the two management Indian workers of the company. The were about to kidnap more when soldiers drawn from the Joint Task Force arrived and engaged them in a gun fight.

The latest kidnap forced the workers of the company to embark on a street protest to press for the release of the foreigners. The Chairman of the Workers Association, Mr. Kriss Natti, said they were worried by the latest attack on the company’s management staff.

Natti said that the motive of the attack was unclear since the new management of he company had brought back the dead company to life and created employment for the people of the Niger Delta. No fewer than 200 oil workers have so far been kidnapped and freed since 2006.

Also on Friday, the intervention of community elders in Ogoniland in Rivers State helped oil prices slip back below $68 a barrel as supply concerns eased. BBC Online reports that protesters, who were occupying a major export pipeline in Niger Delta, were expelled by the elders, allowing valves to reopen and for crude oil to flow.


Also read up on this and see greed and arms dealing which should ordinarily destroy a nation.That amount of arms and money fighting/Arms trade is even worst.Because today they have introduce militancy and small arms insurgency. They have explosives and there attacks in delta,Bayelsa,Rivers claimed innocent lives.At the pick of Ateke and Dokubo conflicts if i remember well communities were attacked with RPGs and dynamite over suspicion they accommodate particular elements of a group.
http:///interview/asari-dokubo-me-henry-okahjomo-gbomo-judith-asuni-and-niger-delta-insurgency


Than grade criminality and insurgence our government should be known rather for its zero tolerance to it.So that a clear message is sent to wanna be.Eg Boko harm,MASSOB That it will not be tolerated and will be crushed instantly.Trying to justify the actions of MEND simply says alot about our ethnic mind set.MEND are criminals period.Why? Because the Nigeria law prohibits possession of illegal fire arms,attacking people and law enforcement agents,Blowing up infrastructure and people,civil disobedience,sabotage,assault,Killing,kidnapping,unlawful assembly,unlaw association to an criminal group,violation,robbery,treason,conspiracy to attack the government/citizens and above all terrorism.All this and alot more were various actions carried out by ND militants or MEND.
So why shelf the law?Rather than for apprehension of people to be asked questions and trials to suggest punishment for wrong deeds.They get rewarded.Why?Today another(Boko haram) has come again with its own reasons.It will only get worst.Not because of sentiments.I feel cheated being a law abiding citizen honestly.You work and pay taxes.You obey fundamental laws of the land and yet get harass.While criminality gets rewarded !!! Now which one seems attractive?[/quote]The question is what does BH stand for.

lucenzo:
On this issue, the President has my full sympathy and support in finding ways to quickly resolve Boko Haram. He must succeed, for his failure will damage Nigeria. However, he must do much better at communicating with the public, to build widespread support for a durable resolution to this dilemma.

I agree totally with this. Such difficulties that Nigeria faces today requires relentless communication. The President must continue to put his agenda before the public. A sort of extension of his manifesto. And be seen to walk the talk. Believe me Nigeria today requires great sacrifice by all and cadre. If the militants in the ND and the BH in the north can understand what he is doing probably they can give him room to breath. But where you are silent and are only reactive, it then appears you are out of your depths.

Government is not about 'well they will see when the results are out', No, no, no. GEJ should realise that the revival of this country is not in his hands and that of government alone. No economy is built and no development is attained without the solidarity of the entire peoples of a country.

afrobaby:
Ofcourse, phcn will join, and guess banks will join too, that is the only way the strike can be felt by the govt. But come to think of it, is it minimum wage that they shud be fighting for or reduction in prices of comodity, they've not increased minimum wage, prices of things are already hiked, what if they now increase it, market men and women will also inflate their prices and inflation will set it, those who will suffer it most are the likes of us who work for private organisations, God help us o

So you don't think market men and women deserve minimum wage too. Really, don't be so selfish pal, it is called inflation. Sorry. The raise will be wiped out by October trust me.

trimwis:
This NLC are just wasting our time and also playing with the emotions of 9ja. what is the benefit if N18,000 in this present economy?

They should look for something else like ELECTRICITY, CORRUPTION AND BAD GOVERNANCE to strike against

If NLC want to make themselves relevant they should mobilize Nigerians to stand against the government over electricity. Picketing all this big generating companies like MIKANO then we will no they serious.

Thank you Sir, someone thinking here. NLC and most Nigerians are as clueless as government. They should have a committee on basic economics before coming out to dance. Government has one way of paying up but has a hundred ways to take it all back. That's why I am a staunch advocate of smaller government and diluted control of enterprise. The private sector is pretty realistic, they cut their clothes according to their cloth not their sizes. But NLC won't go for that. They want bigger government to extend their patronage and fuel their ineptitude. Who is NLC. Isn't it a club where PHCN, railway, NNPC workers reign. Isn't it a club filled with some of the most corrupt and vile human beings on this planet. How will they want anything to work.

So my brother I agree with you. The NLC should be creating better governance and accountability by strike action. That is surgery instead of palliatives but the truth is that they are very much part of the gangrene as they want to be the surgeon and you simply cannot fight yourself.