₦airaland Forum

Ma shaa Allah, a very nice writing bro, good character is very essential, a lot can be achieved with good character.

Personally, i see Muslim youth lacking in most of these six Cs, especially confidence, most of us are not cofident about our person not to talk of our religion and one easy way out is to aquire knowledge, we need to learn more about our deen and make use of these knowledge we get so as to always act on the right thing in the right way.

Our father's have said it well, when they say: "iwa le esin, esin ni iwa"

Interesting brother, may Allah reward you for sharing...waiting for the sixth C

Salla LLAHU 'alyhi wa Sallam.
I suggest we all have a copy of this message, print and paste it in our homes, if possible, read it everyday. If we follow this message completely, then, we'll be better off ma Shaa Allah.

This is a really sad story and should be condemned by all.
I pray Allah strengthen the family and replace what is lost with that which is better and lasting ameen.

10 minutes for a juzu seems very fast, is it just juz 'amma? The duo of sheikh Sudaise and Shuraim finishes juzu 'amma in 41mins 37secs. The whole Qur'an recited by sheikh Ghamidi takes 24hrs, that of Sudais and Shuraim takes 20hrs to complete. This is based on their recorded recitations.

Personally, i try to finish the Qur'an in a month, while during Ramadhan, i try to finish it 3 to 4 times.

^^^ As in ehn, i tire o!
There is this 'face palm' pix i would have love to use, but your Obama definitely is perfect!

alexis: Neither do I need to go to France to speak french or know how to build a gun to shoot one . Learning about Islam is not rocket science nor is it mystical - If anyone wants to learn and know about Islam - the Quran and Hadith are the AUTHORITATIVE sources.

Na wa o, i know it's quite difficult for you to accept the truth, you always want to have the last say abi? I know you'll buy french books to learn french, and then when you encouter a difficult word to pronounce, you use your local dialect to pronounce it abi? Then you become an expert in french language? You watch couple of movies, rambo, commando and maybe equalizer 2000, then you become a perfect marskman. Thankyou for showing me how you reason. Keep shooting anyhow...

^ I didn't ask for a name, what do i want to do with her name...

This is the number, you can call too...+2347098221442, my call time was, 10.26am, 2mins 56secs

alexis: sino



Good for you



Believe what you want, that is what makes us human. Al-Bukhari was clear when he said that Allah can be represented in a muslims mind and he sure didn't say "On Judgement day" either. No one is asking you to believe his statement, we are saying that it is on record from one of your authoritative religious texts that Allah can be represented in a muslims mind. Al-Bukhari believed it and that is good enough for me

I wouldn't have dignified you with a response, but you guys can be quite annoying with your pseudo-knowledge about Islam.
So it's Bukhari that narrates the hadiths ba? Your ignorance is quite exquisite...

Please inform us what the @hadith is about, this world(earth) or judgement day? Answer and see your argument fall like row of dominoes

alexis: Okay Doctor who - again, I am willing to debate you to prove your knowledge on Islam

I can see you pride yourself on the amount of Islamic knowledge of have come to attain(like the one you just displayed above), me i no sabi anything, i be learner, i like my status.

alexis: Misconceptions about your religion? Are you kidding me? What misconception will that be? I don't need your help in explaining Islam to me mate. If I need to understand Islam, the Quran, the Hadith and the life-style of Mohammed is enough for me. You can never surpass Mohammed or the Quran or the Hadith.



As always, clueless

I can never say that i surpass all what you mentioned, infact i know next to nothing when compared to the Qur'an, the Prophet(SAW) and the scholars of good repute.
Alexis, i don't think i have met anyone as arrogant as you are, please heed my advice i posted earlier or you'll have loads of problems in real life.

I know i am clueless, i asked you what you know about usool fiqh, mustolahu-l-hadith, arabic etc. you didn't give a response, can you know all this by reading the Qur'an, Hadith and the life of rosul(SAW)? If you don't know about this things, do you think you can confidently speak about Islam and its teachings to Muslims who spend their entire life learning about their deen? Every aspect of Islam is a subject matter that scholars have researched into, for example, you go to the university and study only hadith, you go for msc and phd only on hadith, talkless of fiqh, sharia, tafseer etc.

PBundles: dont feel like calling the embassy huh? Wouldnt that have been the easiets thing to do and prove me wrong?

Well i just finished speaking with a representative in Abuja KSA embassy, when i asked her if i could bring in my Bible to KSA, she replied(and these are her words, "definitely you can, why not?" then i further said i have been hearing confilicting report on that on which she told me to wait so as to confirm, she spoke to another person in arabic(which i overheard) and the person said "injeel, it's one of our books" she also told me same thing. I hope that has cleared the air?

PBundles: To save us the back and forth all you have to do is call. Call the embassy and ask the very simple question like I did. I was told ITS AGAINST THE LAW TO BRING A BIBLE and then relay to us what you are told. Also from a legal standpoint if you tolerate something, NO you are not allowing it especially if there is a law about it. Ask any lawyer, if there is a law broken and authorties choose not to enforse ( hence tolerate) its doesnt mean the law doesnt exist, which is your point and i wrong.

Yes, i called i confirmed, it is tolerated, allowed, you can bring it in, it's not illegal!

PBundles: I can truly understand your confusion, as many Muslims whom I work with also didnt know. They said the said thing, but I see Christians in KSA etc etc. Then I say the same thing just call the Embassy. Later I see them stating that they frankly didnt know. Im still surprised that a confessed Muslim as yourself doesnt know that the constitution of KSA is the Qur’an and the Sunma. Your asking me to provide a link Your Imam wouldnt be happy with you as you should know this as a fact. I challenge any muslim on this forum to prove otherwise. The link as I mentioned is unauthorised.

Ok you are afraid to call, lets do something else: Show me a citation or statement from any KSA official stating you are free to bring Bibles into KSA and that will settle it, ok. A statement ot link, not a film or link from an unauthorised person. YOU WONT FIND IT. IT DOESNT EXIST.

One thing i know for sure is that, if the saudi constitution is based on the Qur'an and sunnah, then you cannot find anywhere written which would prohibit the ahlu'l kitab from bringing in their scriptures or banning them from practicing their religion. From history of the prophet(SAW) he lived with christians and jews in medinah...Muslims are instructed to protect their house of worship even during war etc.

Allah (SWT) says, "let there be no compulsion in religion..."(Q2vs256)
Also He(SWT) says "...to you your religion and to me my religion"(Q109vs6).
So bra, i find it queer that you are insisting that the constitution of KSA is the Qur'an and Sunnah hence the ban on bringing in a bible.

PBundles: On the French issue, correct me if Im wrong but they banned the veils NOT THE QURAN and by the way you still havent told us if any country bans it. Um but you also know that its banned in Turkey to wear such in banks right, even for Muslims. Ive been to Turkey for a period for my work. I dont agree with teh French banning, as I feel that everyone has the freedom to wear what they want, but since you rose the question, may my wife a non muslim wear what she wants in KSA or anyother muslim country: NO. Every muslim country has as its base Sharia and the women who are guests must abide by their rules and dress codes. This is from first hand information as I travel frequently with my wife. If one argeues that well these countries are Muslim, why the fuss when Christian counries say in these countries you must abide by our rules. Lets imagine for a second that Christian dominted countries all imposed a dress code and said to Muslim women, when here dont were anything on your head because we have as base the Bible, what would be your reaction. I have nothing against you or your religion, so lets get that straight, but is the hypocrisy that I have a hard time swallowing. You insisit that your rules are followed at your domains, OK, but when the other side wants to impose their wishes ( which are not that strict when you compared them to the what Muslim countries impose on non Muslims) you scream foul. I have long wondered, if you are unable to practice your religion in the way you see fit then why even think of going to these countries? Why go to France, the US, UK etc. everyone knows that the Middle East is richm why not simply go there? I ask this in respect and not to disrespect you in any way.

I said also that i am not sure of any Qur'an ban as well.
What is the hypocrisy there? KSA has rules and regulations, they say this is what they want and allow in their country if you can tolereate it then come, if you can't then look for some place else!
The hypocrisy i see here is the westerners and the french who claim freedom of this and that and then turn around to restrict the freedom of Islam. Homos are free to get married and adopt a child while a muslim woman cannot put on a veil or headscarf to work and in public places?! A woman can put on provocative cloths(mini skirts and tight blouse) to work while a muslimah cannot put on what she feels comfortable in to work?! If you can't see the hypocrisy in that then...

And FYI, the bible encourages the hijab and modest dressing...you are at liberty to go confirm

PBundles: That something is seen happening DOESNT MAKE IT LEGAL even if its done with officials. What I find strange and actually amusing is that you are arguing something that is KSA LAW! Its in their constitution! Must I, a non muslim tell you that the Basic Law as observed in KSA is based on the Qur’an and the Sunma which forms their constitution. Are you ashamed that its so, otherwise whats the big deal in saying its so, its not my fault. I a muslm but I dont have the responsibility of overseeing what a whole countries does. The mere fact that you fail to see or want to see what is a fact only confirms to me that in your HEART OF HEART know that its not right otherwise you wouldn’t be defending a lie tooth and nail.

There is NO separation of religion and state. The government restricts the establishment of places of worship and public training of non-Sunmi clergy. That the public ( mind you public) education system enforces the teaching of Islam and the textbooks are intolerant of Christianity and other religions. Must I as a non Muslim tell you what the job is of the mutaww’in. Why do the mutaww’in have as one of the duties the confiscation of Bibles and other Christian symbols. Must I really school you, really? You should be schooling me. Instead you are sending links and films not authorised by KSA.

WHY NOT DO WHAT I DID IF YOU REALLUY WANT TO GET EDUCATED AND CALL THE EMBASSY AND ASK THE SIMPLE QUESTION: ARE BIBLE BANNED? And you will hear what I heard: following the law strictly YES! But if you dont go about parading it in the open you should (he said to me should , but couldn’t guarantee) have no problem. I cant guarantee that you will be allowed to bring other religious material in though including bibles. Soon you will try and convince me I didnt have the conversation.

I know your argument is that there are Christians living there, but its tolerated. The true letter of the law according to the constitution is it ILLEGAL.

The truth is that KSA on one hand abide by it when its good for them ( do you know the business dealings they have with the western world, which makes it all the more hypocritical when they arrest and persecute Asian (mainly Filipino, Indian, Sri Lanka etc) workers for breaking these religious laws and dont say anything to a Brit or American.

By the way, the below mentioned was on Wikitravel. I would recommend that you send an email QUICKLY to the KSA embassy informing them about the blatant lie mentioned so they can rectify asap. We wouldn’t want people to think that they KSA actually enforce the below mentioned.

Religious items for religions other than Islam, including Bibles, crucifixes and any religious literature, are technically forbidden, although these days items for personal use are generally ignored. However, anything that hints of proselytism is treated very harshly, and the muttawa often bust illicit church assemblies and the like.Public observance of religions other than Islam is technically a crime in Saudi Arabia.

Something tells me though, you wont. I wonder why. Just because one stands by a false fact and screams and stamps their foot, doesn’t make it true. Sometimes the truth hurts, so what, just live with it. We didnt make the rules, we just have to abide by them.

Sir, i don't really see the lie i am defending here, personally, i have a lot of issues with KSA and the way they practice the sharia, i am not hiding from the fact, i guess you do not understand my stance so i'll try and reiterate my position.
Initially you said this

PBundles: If this is true, that other religions are to be respected, then WHY ARE BIBLES NOT
ALLOWED IN CERTAIN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES (ie
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia). I may be
wrong but is there any country that bans the
Quran?

Which i respond to with a link showing that indeed you can bring in the Bible without hassle here is the link again
http://
www.muslimspeak./2008/07/16/
muslim-urban-legends-the-saudi-bible-ban/

On your second question about Qur'an ban, i'm also not sure, but the french placed a ban on the face veil in public places, hijab/headscarfs in public institutions and wants to broaden it to headscarfs in private sectors too. Here is the link
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/01/french-veil-ban_n_2992642.html
Can you call this freedom of religion? Are they being respectful to Islam? Are they being tolerant?

Thereafter, you came up to post the saudi constitution(i guess) which you didn't provide a link to(although i think it's from wiki) and posted this:

PBundles: This is interesting but Im sorry to burst your
bubble, but its illegal in KSA. I would rather you
quote the KSA government and not an
unauthrised website and YT film.Freedom of religion is neither recognized nor protected
under the law and is severely restricted in
practice. According to the 1992 Basic Law,
Sunni Islam is the official religion and the
country’s constitution is the Qur’an and the
Sunna (traditions and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad). Just because something is tolerated doesnt mean its allowed.

If this is the constitution you are alluding to, then it doesn't in any way ban the bringing in of the Bible. Please help me out, provide proof for the explicit banning of bringing in the Bible for personal use since you know the constitution of KSA more than i do. If you tolerate something, then you've allowed it na
Is Freedom of religion ristricted? Yes, can you bring in the Bible for personal use? Yes, can you bring in the Bible for proselytising? No.

Hope you can understand my stance now?

Interesting...

*just passing, with ma tesbih doing azkar*

Wa ma taufiqyy illa bi LLahi
Bro siddiq me sef dey ya back o

PBundles: This is interesting but Im sorry to burst your bubble, but its illegal in KSA. I would rather you quote the KSA government and not an unauthrised website and YT film.Freedom of religion is neither recognized nor protected under the law and is severely restricted in practice. According to the 1992 Basic Law, Sunni Islam is the official religion and the country’s constitution is the Qur’an and the Sunna (traditions and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad). Just because something is tolerated doesnt mean its allowed. Im talking from first hand experience. A co-workers BIBLE was taken AT THE AIRPORT. HE IS AMERICAN. Later one of the airport guys snook it back to him but told him to hide it. WHEN ASKED WHY HE WAS TOLD, THOUGH IT RARELY HAPPENS TO AMERICANS YOU CAN BE ARRESTED AS ITS AGAINST THE LAW. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME PLEASE ANYONE CALL THE EMBASSY AND SIMPLY ASK IT AGAINST THE LAW TO OWN A BIBLE OR PRACTISE CHRISTIANITY IN KSA. Its not my words, its SAUIDI LAW and Im really surprised that muslims don know this.

On the Military BASE, you are correct BUT THATS BECAUSE THE SOLDIERS THAT FLY IN ARE NOT CONTROLLED BY SAUDI OFFCIALS AND THE BASE IS SEEN AS AN EXTENSION OF THE USA. It has the same international powers and protection as an embassy. Embassies are protested by international law. You are not allowed to enter or check diplomatic officers and their residence.


[b]This is interesting but Im sorry to burst your bubble, but its illegal in KSA. I would rather you quote the KSA government and not an unauthrised website and YT film. Freedom of religion is neither recognized nor protected under the law and is severely restricted in practice. According to the 1992 Basic Law, Sunni Islam is the official religion and the country’s constitution is the Qur’an and the Sunna (traditions and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad). Just because something is tolerated doesnt mean its allowed. Im talking from first hand experience. A co-workers BIBLE was taken AT THE AIRPORT. HE IS AMERICAN. Later one of the airport guys snook it back to him but told him to hide it. WHEN ASKED WHY HE WAS TOLD, THOUGH IT RARELY HAPPENS TO AMERICANS YOU CAN BE ARRESTED AS ITS AGAINST THE LAW. IF YOU DONT BELIEVE ME PLEASE ANYONE CALL THE EMBASSY AND SIMPLY ASK IT AGAINST THE LAW TO OWN A BIBLE OR PRACTISE CHRISTIANITY IN KSA. Its not me words, its SAUIDI LAW and Im really surprised that muslims don know this.

See, you are also confirming what was written in the link i posted, how do you expect me to believe what you are saying about your american friend and his bible? Did you not see proof of a bible in KSA being held by sheikh Ahmed Deedat? Now that everything as gone electronic, will the saudi government start checking smartphones and laptops for Bible?

Yes, KSA is a Muslim country, and an independent country that can choose which laws to govern the country. What you quoted did not in any way proof that bible are forbidden in KSA, please you can provide something better else it's a big fat lie that bible is banned in KSA.
Freedom of religion, are the foreign non-muslims forced to become Muslims or prevented from praying in their houses? You should know that KSA is the home of Islam and must maintain that identity. At least, other Muslim countries do allow christians to build their place of worship.

And before i forget, you don't go buy couple of books on medicine and then go on to debate with a medical doctor(a neurosurgeon) on hemispherectomy.

A food for thought.

alexis: Hehehe, if you did you would have explained it instead of relying on others to. Try again and stop biting your tonque

Lol, very funny, unlike you, i have learnt and understood about Tawheed asm'a wa sifaat, i know that there is nothing compared to Allah(SWT) and that In shaa Allah, when me and my brothers enter Janah, we'll see Allah(SWT) and we would be pleased with what we see.

There is no contradiction, i believe Allah(SWT) sees, but His vision is absolute and all encompassing, His eyes can never be like mine so i don't form images Of Allah in my mind. He had described some of His attributes, i believe in them and i do not raise questions as to how.
The hadith didn't include "the image we had in our mind while on earth" so why will i bother myself about it?

alexis: Anti-Islamic you say; I have the Quran and the Hadith in front of me. I am actually reading about the succession of the Caliphs right now. So, if you think I get my information from else-where; you need to come off your high-horse.

If you want to debate me on Islam, I welcome you - choose a topic. I am tempted to give you some of my background in Islam but I will leave it for now

You see, the difference between an ignorant person who knows not and does not know he knows not and a person who knows not and his willing to know is that, the former wouldn't want to learn, he is arrogant and thinks he is self sufficient while the latter his honest, humble and ready to learn.

P.S: I do not learn so as to debate with you, i learn and study to lift ignorance from myself and the society. If you have misconceptions about the religion, i can help to explain them with my limited knowledge and i can always depend rely on Allah for you to understand and rely on my able brothers who are more knowledgeable than me to explain things to you.

alexis: Cheap defense when one can't provide any meaningful answer

Lol, yada yada yada

PBundles: If this is true, that other religions are to be respected, then WHY ARE BIBLES NOT ALLOWED IN CERTAIN ISLAMIC COUNTRIES (ie The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia). I may be wrong but is there any country that bans the Quran?

Well, i think you are wrong, check out this link
http://www.muslimspeak./2008/07/16/muslim-urban-legends-the-saudi-bible-ban/

Again, there are a lot of foreign expatriates working in KSA, they have the right to practice their religion even, an American military base was there during the gulf war and still there. Majority of these people are non-Muslims.

alexis: I rather debate with lanrexlan because he actually does research and debate; unlike you. Maybe you should open a dictionary and find the definition of debate. It might help you get some perspective.

Please, provide the definition, i'll like to know cos i don't have a dictionary lol. And while at it, look up these words too; discussion and forum(online) Mehn, you always fall my hand big time!

As i said in another thread, i never knew we were having a debate

alexis: sino






Did you know about the Hadith I posted before I posted it?

Yes, so?

alexis: And do you think you know the Quran and Hadith just because you are a muslim? Stop being ignorant

No, and also, you don't know the Qur'an and Hadith by going to anti-Islamic sites and reading one or two hadiths either.
Do you know anything about mustolahu-l-hadith? Usool-l-fiqh? Tafseer? Sirah? Sababu nuzul? Tawheed/aqeedah? Ijtihad? Do you know what it takes befor you can call a person an Islamic scholar, an authority in Islam? Do you even have any knowledge about arabic the language of Islam?
Answer these questions and lets know who should stop being ignorant!


To the rest of what you posted, irrelevances

lanrexlan: Thank you brother,this is the 4th time he will keep repeating that I lied after I made my apologies that I made a mistake.He wanna make me regret for apologizing to him,but I won't I can't lie when I see I am wrong.One thing about alexis is that he loves repeating the same thing and people will think he's winning in a debate.


Don't mind both of them,bro maclatunji break the thing down to the lowest level,he still insisting Quran is contradicting hadith.Let me give him the final example that things will change on the day of Judgement,Allah(swt) prohibits the drinking of intoxicants[all forms of alcoholic wines and drinks]It is mentioned in the glorious Quran in surah Al-Maidah 5;90-''O you who believe! Intoxicants and gambling,Al-Anzab(animals slaughtered to stone idols)and arrows for seeking luck or decision are abominations of shaitan's handiwork.So avoid strictly all that (abominations) in order that you may be successful''.We can clearly see that drinking wines is haram(forbidden)in islam and it's a sin on you if you do so.

But the same Quran also talk about people of paradise having wines[surah As-Saffat 37;45-45,surah Al-Mutaffifin 83;25]Is that a contradiction or things will change in the hereafter? Definitely not a contradiction,the wine that's forbidden here on earth is lawful for the people of paradise.Allah knows if you drink wine on earth,it will surely creates enmity among yourselves and make you forget performing your duties to Allah.Wines that are sinful on earth but made lawful to the people of paradise on the day of Judgement,change of rules and Allah knows best the unseen.


There aren't here to learn,they are here to criticize.No matter how you try to explain,they won't take it than to criticize it.....Peace brother.

Brother, he wants to capitalize on your mistake cos he has no other point to stand on. Anyone who thinks he and his likes are winning this debate belong to the same level of reasoning, poor and inept.

Thank you for another evidence, now watch him sidestep it and continue on his ignorance...

They say provide a proof, you bring them, they say they don't believe, you use logic and common sense they say you are in denial...SMH

Allah's Rahma be with you bro.

alexis: Make sure you wipe your mouth when you finish talking. Your brothers have been all over the place when they saw Allah can be represented in your mind from the Hadith. lanrexlan was the first to call me a liar and said I cooked up the Hadith and was lying. Bone hook his throat and he came back later and said he was the one that was lying

Alhamdulilah bro lanrexlan explained himself about the hadith, for him to have even corrected himself on here is a big plus for him, cos he is sincere and i respect him for that. The question is, can you do the same?

alexis:
maclatunji cheaply tried to explain it away with his circular reasoning but has continue to shoot himself in the foot saying the Hadith is referring to judgement day. Proof he doesn't have so it has been suggested he takes the back seat and keep quiet.

If you can't understand anything from mac's posts, then your case is tending towards pathetic.
See my advice for you is this, be polite and humble, don't come on here cos you read one or two hadiths believing you've got all the knowledge about Islam. You've not fully understand your own religion sef talkless of Islam!

alexis: Here you come following in the same foot-step, not offering any contribution whatsoever but spewing jargons as usual

Lol, jargons? SMH. The topic is how muslims can teach non-muslims abi? You raised a question, it was explained, links where provided for you to read more but you refused to learn, you remain adamant on your preconceived understanding and opinion. Seriously, i can't help you!

BetaThings: You always see the hypocrisy. If a christian is involved in an accident and a muslim rescues him, it is propaganda, if he did not, he is wicked
If this guy had not been jailed, it would have been intolerance
Who is the propagandist then? Of course, the one who boasts that his book says "thou shall not judge" but he spends his entire life determining what is in the mind of others

In fact ehn, the concept of "thou shall not judge" in christianity is just beyond me.

Another example is a woman who is provocatively dressed, they tell you, christianity is in the heart, "thou shall not judge"... A woman who is dressed Islamically, they say, they are pretenders, they do a lot of bad things and they go on to give you their personal experiences...

To me, it's just one word; HYPOCRISY!

Instead of them to acknowledge the sentence as a welcome development and a deterent to others, they are here spewing rubbish.

We muslims hold in high esteem our Religion, we are advised to respect other people's beliefs and to deal with people justly.

maclatunji: Hahahaha, the self-acclaimed 'experts' on Islam are beginning to look for diversions. We will all be naked on the day of judgement. Does Islam allow unclothedness here on earth?

When I told you the rules change on the day of judgement, you brought inept arguments. It will be nice to see you shift the goal post again. #LOL

*in alexis mode*

Provide AUTHRITATIVE proof for the above, in a SCHOLARSTIC debate, you don't make a statement without backing it up with AUTHORITATIVE PROOFS.

Don't tell me to go and study it, that does not encourage scholarship( ). Moreover, some of us have been studying the Qur'an and Hadith since we were kids mate

My people, may Allah(SWT) reward you all, these guys(desika and co) are not here to learn about Islam, but to mock and ridicule. Unfortunately for them, they are the one exposing their ignorance and inanity.

siddiq202: I support too.

We should be able to get people to collect them. Bro sino and others living in Lagos, over to you.

I'm still available, the location should be stated and the address forwarded to my mail, preferably the mainland.

Toyib Ma shaa Allah!

Brothers and sisters, may Allah assist you all as you participate in this wonderful program. Ameen.

VolvoS60: No sir, my choice is not borne out of 'a fallacious
reasoning', as you put it. My 'hasty conclusion' is
not based on observation of a minute sample. A
sample drawn from which population? African
muslims? Or muslims from all over the world? Which is it? It cannot be Nigerian muslims. You
referred to this 'minute sample' as being made
up of 'some Northern Nigerian muslims'. No sir, it
isn't 'some'. All I need to do is refer you to the
facts - from the early 1980s to date ALL the states
up North (perhaps with the exception of Sokoto) with a clear muslim majority have
experienced shocking levels of violence with
religious undertones. This is not a phenomenon
that can be dismissively referred to as "some
Northern Nigerian muslims". It is too widespread
for that.

You are still making the same fallacious reasoning, from your initial post, you based your opinion about Islam mainly on Northern Nigeria, you said;
"That is my choice - a choice borne out of
the reality of being born and living in Nigeria
for many, many years. Years in which I have
seen inexplicable violence in the name of
Islam, largely in Northern Nigeria."
This particular sample, is too simplistic to arrive at your conclusion. It is hasty cos you didn't factor in other reasons which might have been the propelling factor for these "years of violence up north". ZeInfact, some of these violence have more to do with politics or tribalism than religion not to mention ignorance and poverty. You generalize a lot, and that would not get us anywhere.
I said minute, yes, what is the population of these violent Muslims in relation to Muslims that had been peaceful? How often is the violence up north with religious undertone? What triggers these violence?

VolvoS60: ^^^^
The only answer to your question above is 'ýes'.
Nigeria promotes violence. We ARE violent
people. Our modes of conflict resolution (at
home, school, work, play, worship - you name it)
expressly include violence as one of the first options on the table. We do not even need to
debate this - look around you. The only issue we
may argue about is the differences in the
propensity towards violence of the different sub-
groups (stratified along economic, political, ethnic, gender, and yes, religious lines) that make up this weird and wonderful country.
What is sure is that there is a built-in baseline level of violence below which no (true) Nigerian can fall.

I disagree with you sir! If indeed we are violent people, then Nigeria would have seized to exist. How long have we been bamboozled by our leaders and up till now, there isn't any form of violent resistance form the "violent people of Nigeria? Aren't we the happiest people on earth until recently? We may be confrontational but to classify us as being violent is extreme!
@ the bold, i find it quite interesting, that you made mention of economic, ethnic, political strata of Nigerians before religion perhaps it's not hierachical, regardless, it still butress my point of your fallacious opinion about Islam.

VolvoS60: ^^^^
Laudable words which unfortunately run into
serious problems in the real world. I once posted
here on NL on the life and times of the late Alhaji
Lateef Adegbite. He and other well known
Islamic scholars like the late Sheik Mohammed Gumi could be said to represent the views of a
sizable number of Nigerian muslims. These men
(while alive) had stated publicly at one forum or
another that they considered Sharia law to be
superior to Nigerian law. As you know, this view
can only lead to trouble, the most recent manifestation of which is the Boko Haram
problem. You see the contradiction?

There is no contradiction here, their statement should be understood from the perspective that God is the best of judges, if God had revealed a law, isn't it superior to man-made law? You might argue about whether the law is from God, but that would be irrelevant to an adherent of the law. I'm sure these Muslim leaders didn't make the statement to promote any form of violence, but rather to enlighten people what Islam can offer. Aren't we all looking forward to live in justice and equity?

VolvoS60: ^^^^
I am all for this. For years I have listened to
Islamic sermons that come on the media during
Ramadan, etc., and though I am not a muslim,
any exhortation to live to a higher standard can
only be a good thing. For example I have always admired the simplicity of Islamic burials.
Ostentatious burials do not seem to be common
among muslims - this encourages a solemn
focus on the finality of death and the grave
lessons for those of us left behind. But having
said that, I also understand and agree with those who consider death to be a celebration of sorts,
particularly if the deceased lived to a ripe old age
in the service of God and man. These are just my
views anyway.

I like your words, well different strokes for different folks i guess.

VolvoS60: ^^^^^
You do have a point here. I am Nigerian through
and through and went through UI. I know the
hell that some students went through in the
hands of confraternity boys and it was
surprising to find out that a number of universities (mostly in the North & a few down
South, notably OAU, Ife) had made their
institutions a no-go area for confraternities. (Not
that they were not present, but they were
definitely on the margins). Unfortunately, a
number of universities (mostly those up North with a large majority of muslim students) gained
a reputation for a simmering tension between
muslim and christian students. In the end, the
gains were lost. Zero cultism but frequent clashes
between muslim and christian students? There is
no gain there.

Honestly, i am not aware of anycase of clashes between muslim and christian students, please if you do have a proof, i'll like to see.
Most university up north that i know of are quite social, at least i know that they do have a good number of christians studying in them.

VolvoS60: ^^^^
Can't argue with you about the dressing and
general behaviour of muslim girls. You are
absolutely correct on this. But don't forget that
there are a lot of non-muslim girls in Nigerian
public institutions who also dress modestly and avoid trouble.

Yeah, i agree they do, even in recent times, some universities have enacted dress code in their instituition to curtail the excesses of some naughty students which i see as a very good initiative by those schools.

VolvoS60: I still stand by my main points in my first post.
Non-muslims in Nigeria who have suffered one
loss or another in one of the many violent
religious riots WILL NOT be satisfied with pious
declarations about how Islam means peace. No
sir. They want to see this demonstrated in practice. Only then will it make sense.

Honestly, i do understand how some non-muslims who were cought in these crisis would feel, i have often times wondered what my reactions would be if the tables were turned and i was a victim of such senseless killings...it's just like me being a victim of police shenanigans, while coming back from the Mosque yesterday, i saw some policemen and i felt disgusted, i didn't care if they were there to forestall a crime that might endager me, all i wished was for me not to see them at all. I can't blame the whole police force for the crimes some of them comit, the police wasn't setup to cause problem to the society, as bleak as it seems, they still protect us in one way or the other and not all of them are that bad.
Islam on the other hand is a religion that means submission to the almighty, there are billions of Muslims around the world, if we look at the number of bad muslims who comit acts of violence against innocent people with the number of muslims that are peaceful, we'll understand that it's not Islam that is propelling these people, they are criminals that need to be checked.

OMG! The brother is just 18years of age(Dr. Naik's son)



Dr zakir next....

ok na here, Dr. Naik son still speaking...

^^Ameen

Wow, i must say kudos to the organizers, people are still trooping in Ma shaa Allah.

i'm late already ooooo

deols: I'll most probably attend on sunday. Since my journey would be from Ib, I wont be able to go twice.



post updates please.

May Allah bring you safely on sunday ameen.

@ bold,
I go try,

In shaa Allahu.

Hallie27: Asalam alaykum..as regards the hadith about a woman,a donkey and dog invalidating salah,does it apply to the salah of a woman also when another woman passes in front of her?

Wa alaykum salam sis,
The hadith is quite explicit in regards to the case of a male Muslim, but for a female, i don't know. I haven't come across any hadith or Islamic jurist opinion on it.

It is safe to mention that the solat of the female in her home is much more rewarding, and she is not expected to lead the solat if per chance she goes to the mosque or finds herself in an open place, perhaps the emphasis on the male in the hadith.

The general principle is that sutrah is a cumpulsory sunnah, for both male and female when they offer solat cos the prophet(SAW) said, "when one of you prays, he should face a sutrah..." .
Another is the instruction to repel a person who wants to pass in between you and the sutrah and if he resist, he is a devil.
Allah knows best.