₦airaland Forum

I have posted a message on nigeriavillagesquare with regards to this and provided a link. Guess it might all be more revealing in the morning. Let us just all raise awareness were we can.

amosexy:
@Sky Blue

I can invite people from there as soon as we are able to come up with  name for this union and have a meeting place. I came by the site  from PUNCHNEWSPAPER forum,so i signed up for the membership.

LOL, i see you are really into the naming thing. Why I am so weary of names at the moment isbecause that is because such a jtake has become so Nigerianised. PDP - Peoples Democratic part (and yet the most undemocratic party i know), rule of law, 7 point agenda, WAI - war against indiscipline. Don't get me wrong, a name can be a powerful tool and a good thing, something to keep one focused on, however i just don't think it is vital at the moment. We are not forming a political party but a movement, a movement i hope we won't want to lay exclusivity and selectivity to. Do we really want people to feel they are simply joining a new party or something of the sort? Let us consolidate with others from different sites and places first and raise awareness so that people feel free to join and feel empowered enough to relate to the vision and see it as a common vision. Again, just my thoughts. A name can be a big deal so do we want to be in a hurry to just do that now?

I think it would be good if whatever we do, we at least keep updating the nairaland page with progress, etc, as a means of contnuously raising awareness that there is an available outlet and forum with which one can act.

Furthermore, can we get this on the home page?

@amosexy interesting link and just goesto show that there is an audience of people who are willing to act and see a change. How did you come about the site and can you possibly inform people there and raise awareness of  what is transpiring here?

pixiraver:
So what date and time do we agree on meeting online? Is it on yahoo messenger, msn or skype? If we agree on the date, then we can advertise this date on nairaland, villagesquare, facebook etc Believe me guys we will get huge audience.

So what we need now? A website that can provide information on the date of the meeting online, probably our own chat room or something. I volunteered to pay for the domain name and hosting, any web designer in the house?

A meeting of such is a very good idea but then you have to think of how such will be co-ordinated. Imagine trying to co-ordinate 50 people trying to express their views at thesame time? It might be more effective if people sign up todifferent areas of interest, eg education, open sourcing, journalism and media, governance, health, FOI bill, electoral reform, etc. People can obviously talk on more than one issue, but what such demarcation provides is filtering into smaller more manageable and hence more easily coordinated groups in terms of dicussion. All what was discussed is posted and organised, with plans of actions, etc and people can view everythig from all sectors. We caan outline some basics for everyone , etc.

@Charles just send the villagers the link. We can work together to create awareness for this on diferent sites. Initially people are excited then if nothing happens or it is perceived to be anoter unserious venture the whole thing seems to die out. Hence the aim is to convince people iof the seriousness while they are ready. Getting people from different sites is a good thing cos at the end of the day we all want progress and a good momentum will help.

Charlesmud:
My guy thank you soooooooooooooo much.

I was thinking the case of NigeriaVillageSquare should be left till when we are able to fix a place of discussion first, we cant direct them here. I know members there that will surely join but I want us to create a meeting place first b4 contacting people at that site.

I hope you understand me or maybe have another idea. I"m all ears guy.

We want as much help as possible to develop a momentum so that this becomes more than us but about "a movement" for lack of a better phrase. The guys on nigeriavillagsquare might have better ways of even setting up communication. The members of the site at least have things they can point to which they can say the did together which is why i think raising awareness there would be a very good thing because there are definately people on there who are willing to act also. What is difficult about directing them to this thread? You can use just provide a link to the discussion and use your connections whatever they might be to get more support and raise more awareness. We don't have to plan this alone and we want to leave an open door for anyone to walk in. We want to generate momentum, don't we? I just saw an article posted by an ex-govenor of sokoto state on the site. Although the article was berated, that is not the issue. The issue is that site seems to attract people who can be of tremendous help (and i am thinking journalists and media people i - networking). Again, just my 2 cents

pixiraver:
So how do you suggest we proceed Skyblue? I am really happy we are all inspire to serve and help our dear country and save it from wolves that have eaten so much

Anyone who is interested just send information you are comfortable with sharing to the person appointed for such which i think is @proudly9ja. Just state vaguely areas you might be able to help in although this is not fixing your fate at all but just simply to give an idea of areas being covered at present, education, electoral reform, governance, FOI bill, whatever.

I will go to the nigeriavillagesquare site and propose that members who are also interested join up. Someone should try and get the moderator to put this on the home page so that more people are aware of it. That is a start at the moment and we will eventually have to meet and discuss. We need tpo make this clear that it is for anybody who is interested in the change that is being spoken off and hence it is not an exclusive thing. It could also serve as a good networking tool for people who share such interest and desire to act. We will eventually have to hold more serious "talks" though, but in the right area for this. We leave a open door ad it is up to people who might be interested in whatever capacity. This is a start, isn't it?

Actually @Charlesmud since you post more often than me in the villagesquare, can you take this to the square? There is a thread that discussed similar thing but in general just raise the message and awareness there. I can help you with it if you want.

pixiraver:
For a start, we need to meet but since we are all far apart we can meet via a conference chat and discuss our action plan, we need to start now and i don't think we are too fast, what we need is action and not all talk. I suggest we all submit our yahoo messenger ids to proudly9ja so if you are interested submit your name, area of expertise, yahoo id to proudly9ja. Action please!

With regards to this name thing, let us not make this a fundamental issue right now, if people want to keep their online ID and use as names for now and for whatever reason at present, they should be allowed to. We are not trying to scare anybody or put people under pressure. Whatever people are comfortable with sharing for now they should share. You have to bear in mind that a lot of these things have started before, just look for a thread called something along the lines of "A sweet wind is blowing" or Nigerian revolution or any of that. I guess the wind didn't blow for long afterall, LOL. We want something sustainable and an environment whereby we are able to receive help, ideas and other things that might be neccessary to carry out actions, as well as help those who want to impart positively whichever way they want to.

LOOOl

@oyb i just performed thesame test and got same information. Created by Photoshop.

youngies:
LOL . . . I didn't take offence, I was only trying to let him not to discourage us in our little attempt through his questions

He wasn't discouraging me, he just sounded curious with regards to the seriousness of intentions, etc. I hope people asking questions no matter how they are phrased won't immediately discourage you because then the foundation will become quite fickle if we all thought like that. If there is nothing to hide then the questions should be addressable.

oyb:
abeg post yourself beside your 'invention ' if u aint BSing!

LOOOOL, Thanks for the laugh . Everyone post yourself beside your invention

amosexy:
My concern is that how do we intend getting to the masses at the end of the day? I mean the poor because i belive it shouldnt end here online cos nt everybody has a access  2 internet.

@amosexy, we might even be crossing thesame lines in some of our thoughts. That is why i say a huge issue is awareness too. This is not about making the venture all exclusive, but bringing people along with it once they can buy into the vision of a better Nigeria for us all. Hence with regards to that i was thinking of forums in rural areas, towns etc, further down the line whereby those with the capacity to do so will. The important thing is that we form a more integrated system whereby different sectors know they at least have support from us all. As long as it is progressive and towards nation building, we should support. @youngies easy with @texazzpete, you shouldn't take offence, he was only asking a question.

texazzpete:
This is amusing. There's nothing here to show that these group of people are any better than their predecessors, and the level of tribalism often displayed on Nairaland puts paid to the idea of any form of Unity.

But i may yet be proved wrong. Can any of you tell me exactly how you plan to save/fix Nigeria?

LOL, save Nigeria? Amusing

Again that is why i am advocating for openness in this venture and not putting limits or barriers and hence so far some people thankfully agree with me on that. @texxazpete, Nairaland is a forum where we all come to comment on happenings in Nigeria - especially the politics section. With the venture being proposed i hope we can form a forum whereby we can plan and strategise and act to make positive impacts in Nigeria in whatever field we are interested in or choose to adopt. Hence this is not just about politics or influencing government, but this is simply pro-progress. Hence i know there are some people who are interested in the dilapidating state of the educational sector in Nigeria. We can brainstorm and see how we can bring about not just surface but fundamental changes also.

Some people are interested in electoral reform, fine let them contribute where they can by raising awareness. I have a lot of ideas with regards to different areas, etc but i would prefer a situation whereby such is discussed in the right arena. Whatever areas we can contribute let us contribute because i am sure we have a rich pool of people online that care about the country and want a change and want progress. There are many people who want to contribute but don't know how to or feel helpless, hopefully there is something we can do. Although action is called for in so many areas, I think awareness is also very important. What we do should raise awareness in Nigeria and with people with Nigerian interests all over the world. In terms of development politically, economically, through infrastructure, etc, i believe we can affect that change. It is sooo easy for such to be derailed by differences hence i hope we can focus on what unites, the hope of seeing progress and development in Nigeria. Better governance that reflects the will of the people and progress, development in the educational sector, a media that is more socially responsible and raises awareness, infrastructural development, improved security, etc. Do you really believe it is impossible to make a difference. We might not change Nigeria overnight but we can work towards bringing about change.

One thing i propose in terms of awareness is to bring the issue of the 2011 elections to the fro NOW and bring the issues to Nigerians mainly in Nigeria but to those all over the world also. We need an election which has more depth and based on possible developments and progress towards nation building, an election about the issues, an election that brings to light the fickleness of ideas and the emptiness of the rhetoric of those who have nothing meaningful to cont,ribute. An election that is based on different fundamentals so that people can begin to look at their votes as investments. The issue of the 2011 elections and electoral reforms should be brought to the awareness of everyone now.

I think we should not confuse being decisive with rushing things. The funny thing is that i have thought about what a scenario like this will entail for quite a while, so it is not just rushing things but things that have been thought off. I just hope that we realise that people will come from different angles and perspective and that is fine, as long as the ideas are progressive then i don;t see how they can be retrogressive. Forgive the use of the analogy with one body but many parts, hence the need to allow the different experiences and expertise or just plain knowledge of people to flourish. I have quite a few ideas but I would rather it be discussed in the right arena. There is something similar although a bit more on the political side that was proposed by someone on the site www.nigeriavillagesquare.com. I have membership with the site but rarely if ever contribute, however i think inviting whoever is willing to join from their forum would be good because it seems members of the Nigerian press and better known writers brace that site. Let us not joke this opportunity away please.

youngies:
Alrite, the most critical things we need now are:

[list]
[li]Name of member[/li]
[li]Location[/li]
[li]Occupation[/li]
[/list]

Now this will immediately help us to ascertain our spread and areas of profession competences. Should I say that we gonna need a whole load of good young radical lawyers on pro bono.

Don't mind  such at all, but as i said as long as no one no matter how "high up" they are placed is exempting themselves from possibly doing any "foot soldier" work (whatever that means). Whatever information we share that is private, should be exclusive please. Hence the need for a more dedicated arena.

proudly9ja:
I strongly pray it doesnt turn out that way.

I suggested a meet earlier but someone countered (and I concur) that it wil be better to sort out some issues online first on Nairaland before organising a meet. Thats why I have raised up issues I think (open to suggestions ofcourse) we should thrash out. Ild like to hear yours too please. Slowly but surely, we will get there

When i mentioned a meet, I didn't necessarily mean a physical meeting or conference yet, but a more established arena to discuss, it could be on here, could be using web chat, anything that is mainly for the issue at hand.

youngies:
@Sky Blue
I have no doubt in mind that this is doable, if we all pull resources together. A lot of energy, time and finance will be needed no doubt, but I don't want to look at these excuses first. I want us to hit the ground right away, no dramatisation.

If no one can get us a registration site asap, may I suggest that we start signing up here. No procrastination, 2011 is already here!

I second that motion, as long as we are agreed that this is currently a movement and not a political party. There are so many areas that could be effected, covered and influenced hence i would advice people who are tired of looking on helplessly at the Nigerian situation to join and if not at least do what you can in your different areas and capacity to help the country, does not have to include signing up if you don't want to.

Also, i feel the need to address this whole issue of "foot soldiers". No doubt there are people who would be required to go to the grass roots if necessary, as long as none of us are exempting ourselves if its in our capacity to do any taks including what some might wrongly see as menial. No elitism please, we are working together towards similar goals

Can we just leave all of that out (the "group naming ceremony" and slogans) for now please. I seriously hope this does not turn into a T Shirt convention were we meet each week and "discuss" the ills of Nigeria over the proverbial Kola Nut. Let us organise a meet first or some discussion so we see how serious this is and whose in and then plan from there.

proudly9ja:
Because this is something Im very passionate about and because I have seen a lot of good ideas for Naija fizzle out with time and because people just talk and do nothing, I am willing to start taking down names of people who are interested.

If this is agreed, you can send your name and location (just country is alright) to my PM. But please wait, will the house agrees that I can take down names.

If this is actually going to happen then i am quite interested.

@youngies, while I completely understand where you are coming from and see your point on how there has been a lot of talk and no action and hence the need for action, i would have to say that i prefer we use more of our brain when it comes to these actions so that they don't become meaningless, worthless, ineffective and a waste of time. This is doable but i think a meet or at least a proper discussion would be in order in which carefully outlined plans and different areas for people to sign up on which utilises our diversity and different experiences would be in order. I guess as long as this is for real and this is actually going to happen then i am signing up.

The lack of patriotism on this thread is really alarming and simply disgusting. In a normal and more appreciative disposition this police woman would be hailed and given various honours for the dedication to her job that would even put her peers in other countries to shame. Oh yes, the much talked about "stoppage by yansh power", a feat that has only ever been attempted in Nigeria as these pictures would show. In other countries such an ingenious and totally on the spot adlibed and intuitive display of courage that could give new meanings to the saying "use what your mama gave you" would be awarded and commended, and here we are having the audacity to even speak against what was probably a standard "search and collect" routine.

The Nigerian police, don't worry one of these days your service to the nation and the zeal with which you perform your duties will become evident and more appreciated, its not your fault, you just love and care too much. You give and give but what do you get? Just takes me back to the day in Port Harcourt, I was being driven around by a friend while his mother was in the back seat. A police woman after seeing the type and make of the car that was being driven pulled us over and I was immediately impressed by the foresight on her path for being able to spot "viable" benefactors. Then came the questions, the zeal at which this lady carried out her job really was tear inducing and at one point I did all I could to resist the patriotic urge that overwhelmed me which almost had me getting out of the car, jumping on the roof and singing the national anthem in english and wazobia. We were asked to show driving licence which was presented; particulers-which were presented; spare tyre-which was presented; fire extinguisher-which was also presented; and yet this woman would not leave us alone. I guess its a little something called Nigerian police intuition mixed with the officer's seeming patriotism and love for others that wouldn't let her rest till the road was free and secure of licence wielding, careful driving know-it-alls and all I could do was watch and stare in awe. "They definately don't make them like this in the west" I thought to myself while this woman I guess in an attempt to make sure we were going nowhere gripped the steering wheel of the car as if it was the last piece of bread in a Harare supermarket.

Even without any proof of any wrong doing on our path and after presenting all that was asked, her good old fashioned police "sensors" must have definately sensed something was wrong. At a point I was even going to suggest she ask if we had a spare tyre for the spare tyre in the boot, you never know, just in case of incasity; but then i thought i better leave it to the experts, she probably thought about that already. The story ends with my friend's mum getting out of the car, pulling the officer over and some money changing hands to the utter disgust of my friend while the mention of "settlement" was thrown around. I just knew it, thats what the issue was, definately . . . .it had to be. It had to be some tax or parking fees that were not paid and was being owed by the the owner of the car bearing that registration number and this Police woman was able to spot this from the moment she saw the car. They really don't make them like this in the west. Nigerians when would you learn to pay your parking fees and car fines so that officers won't have to resort to "stoppage by derrier consolidation" as sampled in the pictures posted? God Bless Nigeria, god bless the Nigerian police force, i promised myself i won't get all teary eyed (*rushes to kiss a nigerian flag*).

bawomolo:
There is nothing misunderstood about Sharia, it's repressive considering modern day standards. The idea of combining religious laws with state affairs and not expecting it to be politicized is laughable. Sharia should as extinct as the sokoto caliphate.

For me the issue is not even wether the laws are viewed as primitive or whatever; but about such a law existing in a country which claims to be secular and a country which has a very significant ammount of non-muslims, to put it lightly. So does this mean that such people are not welcome in northern states and that the north is just for people who can tolerate sharia? How can a country have two differing legal systems? If Nigeria was an islamic country and there was a consensus by the people that they desired such laws then that is their choosing and they can go crazy on the chopping board even if it is chopping of the hands of a 10year old orphan girl who stole a single maggi cube, then that is their business and the way they choose to live. But when such a law is imposed on a country like Nigeria, i don't see how that is not going to cause trouble. Whose bright idea was this?

Jarus:
Not a contracdiction, baby. Sharia is highly misunderstood, and pitiably, now politicised. If the case involves non-Muslims, it becomes optional, that is, both parties must agree that the law should be applied, otherwise it is not applicable.

So are reports of christians in the north who have been affected by laws like not being able to share a taxi with a woman, etc fake and doctored? The little 8 year old boy in iran whose hand was purposedly driven over by a car as a punishment for stealing bread in a market, did he also agree to be judged by such laws? I can post pictures and stories if you want. So all those who lose limbs for stealing a bottle of maltina, did they agree to be judged by sharia? Does being a muslim automatically mean affiliation with sharia and can muslims themselves refuse to be judged by such laws?

nuzo:
So, which law is siutable for all the people living in this area as all the groups seem to have differnt laws in mind?

The law should be guided by the constitution without addition of uneccessary jara (my view).

Jarus:
It is not funny. It is a fact that is very common, but many people are not bold enough to say it out. The fact is that the first thing that comes to many people's mind in any thing is religious affiliation. Using it to cause injustice or to deny people of different views some right is what is not good. For example, I will support Sharia because I'm a Muslim but I will not deny a more competent Christian job because he's competing with a less qualified Muslim, because that will be injustice to the Christian. You see where sentiments come to play.

ENZIGA,
You are another quality addition to NL. Welcome to NL politics section. I see you carving a niche for yourself on NL politics section.
Welcome on board.

You are entitled to your view but is the part in bold not a contradiction? On the one hand you speak of justice and respect for others who don't share your view then in the next sentence you speak of support for provision of laws which would govern a whole state or area according to your own religous affiliation? So what happens to others living in thesame area that don't hold such a view, should they be made to obey laws they do not in any way support or relate with? What happened to respect for others?

Oh let me take a quick guess, Ghadaffi would also like to selflessly volunteer his services as the leader of such a union, right? WOW, Africa really, really, really has a leadership problem. Self professed lords of the lands with nothing at all in terms of development to show for their leadership.

@gadogado, bear with me for a sec please. The United states of Africa has to be most ill conceived and stupidest idea i have ever heard. It is so easy to argue from the whole "economic" angle and using examples like the EU to justify such, but such a view and using such comparison seems to me to be nothing short of being blind to what is actually happening in Africa. The EU doesn't just allow all countries in europe to join the EU, certain criteria have to be met and the economies of countries that want to join have to show stability, etc. Basically there are criterias cutting along various areas that have to be met and such is in place so that there won't be a scenario whereby there is a taint on such a "unity". Now let us take a look at africa and see how silly such an idea is when applied to africa. Zimbabwe each day keeps setting records for highest inflation rates ever seen and last time i checked it was some obscene percent figure i had to check twice to make sure i was reading correctly. Now what do you think the implications of allowing such a country to join such a misguided "union" will be? How can such a union stabilise a competitive single currency vital to trading with such a partner country like Zimbabwe? Then take all the wars going on, the lack of infrastructure, the regimes of dictatorship all around the continent, what do you think would happen to the population of countries with no wars? Imagine Lagos population ballooning to over 50 million when refugees from dafur and every other place that Nigeria by some freak accident happens to be more stable than start flooding in, thereby putting more pressures on the social and economic infrastructure of countries that can't even cater for themselves. When even citizens of Niger are reported to migrate enmasse into Nigeria? In Africa whereby having an election with no violence is seen as a miracle, that is a continent that would all of a sudden get united by declaring it a union?

There was a scenario in South Africa in recent memory whereby some south africans went on a killing and burning spree to protest people taking their jobs, what do you think the effect of such a union would be on more advanced countries in the region? And then arguing from the point of "so that we can have a voice", WOW. Sorry if you feel offended by the bluntness of my response, but honestly? The AU currently couldn't even openly condemn Mugabe and you think such a union of dictators and people who have shown disregards for the pains of their people will be a more morally upright voice? This is like saying Abacha, Babangida, Odilli, Ibori and all other horrors from Nigerian history should form a political party as a means of better representing Nigeria since such consolidation will maximise their "effect" on the world stage, the shame!!!.

Then finally using the arguement from a religous point of view to argue that democracy is not "right" for everyone by making it into a western concept is just shocking. This is like saying the wheel was invented in say France so no one who hates france should use the wheel, we should all use square blocks instead. Instead of seeing democracy as an "american" thing why not see it for what it is in its basic principles? A government which represents the will of the people. If the will of the people is to be slaughtered and trampled upon then let them use their votes to select such, if not you might have to accept that it is not the will of the people; but at least let the people choose their future, is that so inhumane and ridiculous a view? Not every "non-western" part of the world practised monarchy and feudalism prior to colonialism. The (for some reason) celebrated journalist who threw shoes at George Bush should immediately come to mind in this discourse. When Saddam Hussein was alive where was such a fellow? Was he without shoes during Hussein's brutal regime? And all of a sudden he becomes a hero and some sort of a symbol because he threw shoes at the leader of the country that made sure he lives in an environment where he won't be hanged for such audacity?

Nigeria cannot function as a whole without ethnic bias, are you advocating that a union of pariah states with leaders suffering from illusions of grandeur would fare better? Is that not just an ode to poverty and everything wrong with the world? Please let us make Nigeria work, then ECOWAS. ECOWAS has the potential of being a powerful world player if it gets its act together. And if there is any such desire for the ill conceived concept of a true "African Union" then there should at least be a referendum as opposed to people like Yar Adua and past leaders who got Nigeria into the IOC choosing the fate of a whole nation. If the referendum is genuine and not "Nigerianised" i really do not see how on earth it will pass. AFRICA!!!!!

chidichris:
@princekevo,
if i am desiring to be a slave which u are not, where are u now and what exactly are u doing? from your gramatical madness, u are not holding any certificate and you are living in macau going by what u claim so definitely u are there to do any odd job thereby enslaving urself to the less than whites.
the problem with many of us here is that we do things that we condem. no nigerian wants or accepts slavery yet 99% of us are either slaves to the whites or to our fellow blacks.
go to any country of this world no matter how timid they are, u must see nigerians who without knowing it, have decided to be slaves overthere instead of coming back here.
the bitter truth is that give 98% of nigerians free visas to europe and america today, they will all jump into the flight without asking, what are we going there for? you see that at the end of the day, we all do whatever is available.

@nuzo,
if you are in china for real, tell me what u are doing there? u are either under labour/human slavery or self made slave as long as i know china. the most funny aspect of life is that those who ran away from nigeria will always lead the campeign of, "Nigeria is good and is the best place to be in the world"
you are the same man always advising us to organise ourselves against the govt. my question is why? tell me how many nigerians that are living free lives or enjoying the benefits that are far from slaves. slaves for instance do not vote and 90% of nigerians do note and when they do, their votes will not count. slaves make no contributions in the governance of the country. our opinions and wishes have no place in govt so what are we? police go about beating and torturing citizens on daily basis yet we are not slave. nigerians like nuzo have sold all available family belongings and use any possible exit route to run away from the hell we call country.

i have visited at least ten different countries of the world and in each of these countries, young and able bodied nigerians roam the streets in search of daily bread which is what is what people who make sense call freedom.

china and indian jails have uncountable numbers of nigerian inmates serving terms for different offences yet we are not slaves.

prince of macau and nuzo of china, since both of u make sense, please define slavery and tell me how both of you among other nigerians are not slaves.

@Davidif,
i like ur refferences if i must go by your logics, you have selected few among the other countries. if u can get bad countries in europe and asia as in governance, u still have many outstanding countries overthere. what happened to africa? could u please make some references to some countries under good governance in africa.

u did mention hitler, he was just a president so what have been happening after him? was he bad to his own people and why is it that every one down here is mad? as long as we are still bias about who we are, moving forward will be difficult. the first step to solving any prob is identifying it.

Very interesting post .
Funny enough the post contains a lot of truth.

@Charlesmud let us just for a sec assume (although i highly doubt it) that Nigeria is actually providing 'these' countries with any tangible help or support, i am afraid that such will not help your arguement and will even prove Nigeria to be the most mentally underdeveloped Nation in the world. Why on earth will a beggar that cannot cater for himself (even with all the "potential" around him) go around giving out food to others that are faring better? Does that not show mental retardation?

One could argue that Nigeria has progressed from where it was 10 years ago. Though i may not completely agree i will definately see the merit of such arguement, however once again such is meaningless considering how low the country has actually descended. It is equivalent to a dead person telling you they are feeling better when for such a scenario anything can pass for better, even if it is cancer and a life support machine.

[quote author=B.O.S.S. link=topic=227392.msg3414075#msg3414075 date=1233569765]I might be wrong as I’ve not stepped in Nigeria for over a decade however based on what I read, what people see when they return from their journeys and the daily news reports, I doubt I beg to differ when it comes to including Nigeria among the top 5 countries in Africa.

My inclusion however would be (not in any particular order):
Libya
Egypt
Tunisia
South Africa and
Mauritius.

I might be wrong though but I doubt Nigeria fits the list regardless of my opinion because when we talk of development, there are so many indications that must be considered and I doubt Nigeria ticks most of the boxes as of yet.

Electricity,  Water, Education, Good transport links (these are just very basic and Nigeria lacks in these infrastructures and even the percentage of the country that has the opportunity to get them is not even up to 30%. _{I might be wrong though.}

There are different definitions of Developed Country. It all depends on what standard you're using.[/quote]You haven't been to Nigeria in over a decade? Wow, you really should just for the experience. I didn't want to assume too much by suggesting it is 'home' for you : ).


Nigeria once upon a time was the largest exporter of oil in africa and the 8th largest exporter of oil in the world (we are now like the 9th or something), AND THE COUNTRY IMPORTS PETROL? Nigeria has a huge natural gas reserve capable of powering the whole country for a very long time to come and just about a year ago PHCN was celebrating that the country had reached its highest power generatin capacity of about 3500MW. South Africa has a population less than a third of Nigeria and has a generating capacity of 40,000MW. Nigeria drives a huge consumer economy which would sound good to some except when you consider that Nigeria imports pretty much everything and exports nothing. We give nothing to the world all we do is take and destroy. The germans are known for their innovative designs seen in cars, etc, the chinese are known for their productivity, the japanese are known for their efficiency, all of these are know for their industries; what is Nigeria known for? A country's whose income is completely dependent on the export of unrefined oil? Please throwing in the word "potential" into this whole discourse is tantamount to patronism and to be honest is nothing short of insulting. I love my country and yes, when people ask where am I from, i proudly proclaim Nigeria even if there is nothing solidly tangible to proudly proclaim about. It is simply love for the country, the people, the culture, etc. Such however does not equate to development.

Any country in africa that can supply power to the people, support industries and sustain a diversified economy is better than Nigeria in terms of development. Lesotho is seen as one of the poorest countries in the world. They rely a lot on aid and yet they are able to supply constant power supply to the people, you turn on the taps and water flows through, the roads are better than 99 percent of the roads in Nigeria, so what are we talking about here? Botswana has a much higher GDP than most countries in Africa, political stability, constant electricity, diversified trade in minerals, so what are we talking about? To even take it a step further, South Africa has functioning industries (meaning they export), good power supply, a diversified market, you turn on the taps and water comes through, world class infrastructure and a sizeable tertiary sector (South Africa does have a serious security problem though), so again, where does Nigeria come in?

Jakumo:
Assigning an array of parallel-connected super-computers to perform triple integrals along the entire three-dimensional surface that would be generated if the statistical average density of all matter were expressed as a function of time and space, the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle would only be obeyed PROVIDED that the resultant summation is assumed to span the interval between zero and infinity.

Therefore, God can ONLY exist for those who regularly surrender enough CASH to their fat, ranting, Mercedes-driving pastor.

LOL. @Jakumo, what level of trauma hath visited thee? What woe betide thine house? Was thou swindled out of thy hard earned cash by a yahoo yahoo 'man of the cloth'? I guess its a good thing the truth is not influenced by our opinions and views or the intelligence of our discourse just as an arguement cannot change bread to butter.

bawomolo:
caterpillar just announced an additional 2,100 job layoff in Illinois, wow things are getting hard for engineers in Illinois . Obama's stimulus can't come fast enough. i never knew the recession so-called safe professions.

LOL, some careers are recession proof o. Take for instance medicine. People will always need doctors, etc, hence they will always have a job plus in most parts of the western world the health sector is funded by the government or public. Meanwhile, the rate at which projects have been coming up can be reduced, and a lot of it is the private sector, it is not a necessity

"A decision to include in the 2009 budget some projects that were planned for 2008 but never implemented, also inflated the originally proposed budget".

Now that i don't get. So what exactly does refinancing projects "planned" for last year mean? Wasn;t money allocated to these "projects" last year? What was achieved with the money provided then?

Nigeria's lower house okays 09 budget of 3 trillion naira


Nigeria's House of Representatives approved a 3.087-trillion-naira (21-billion-dollar) budget for 2009, eight percent up from that proposed by President Umaru Yar'Adua, documents showed on Friday.

The budget for Nigeria, the world's eighth largest oil producer, was based on a crude oil sale price of 45 dollars per barrel down from 59 dollars the previous year.

Prices have now fallen so far in recent months that the 45-dollar figure, initially hailed as very conservative, now looks over-optimistic.

Africa's most populous nation relies heavily on oil and gas, which according to the World Bank rakes in 99 percent of export earnings and 85 percent of government revenues.

Nigeria's daily oil production is projected at 2.29 million barrels, lower than the 2.45 million barrels projected, but not attained, for 2008.

Actual production in 2008 averaged just over two million barrels a day, because of the unrest in the southern oil-producing Niger Delta, according to Yar'Adua.

The budget sets aside five billion dollars in funding for joint venture projects with foreign oil companies.

Oil majors have long complained that the state oil company Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation (NNPC) is unable to meet its funding committments in joint venture projects.

In December, Yar'Adua had presented a 2.87 trillion naira budget. A House committee said the increase was accounted for by late funding requests from the executive.

A decision to include in the 2009 budget some projects that were planned for 2008 but never implemented, also inflated the originally proposed budget.
The new budget is based on an inflation rate of 8.2 percent and exchange rate of 125 naira to a dollar, whereas inflation is currently running at around 15 percent and the exchange rate is around 145 naira to a dollar.

The Nigerian upper house, the Senate, in December approved a slightly different version of 3.049 trillion naira spending for 2009.

The two houses will have to reconcile their numbers before the budget is sent to Yar'Adua for his assent.

africasia.com

@londoner what "frame works" has Yar Adua been laying down? What "foundations" has Mr President been laying? So the development of a whole country should be suspended because of the health of one man who knew before he agreed to run for presidency that he was ill? The lack of development that contiues to KILL people should be tolerated so that we can feel human? Why can't he step down and why all this secrecy about his health? Could it possibly be that Mr President is trying to avoid the constituional obligation that the legislature has whereby the president can be upseated if he is deemed too unhealthy to lead or leaves the country beyond a specific amount of time? He was ill way before her agreed to be president and he knew it, instead of that to make you ask "what on earth was he thinking" it is others who point out the truth that should be crucified?

Are you going to also use Abuja as a benchmark for development around the country even though the running of Abuja is actually handled by a minister of the FCT? The irony of people bringing up Abuja when as far as i can tell no federal roads have been addressed, is that the development in Abuja has not been as a result of Yar Adua or his team but as a result of El Rufai. In fact there was a news article that i read last weak whereby someone was complaining about the slow degradation of the roads and infrastructure in Abuja since Yar Adua got in. Its amazing how people see others asking a man to step down if he can;t perform his duties as being wicked while they themselves are unable to see that the innactions of Mr President in this day and age is equivalent to retrogression and such is KILLING people. People still die from polio in Nigeria. People please, just stop for a second and take that in. PEOPLE STILL DIE FROM POLIO IN NIGERIA. The infrastructure on the federal side of things is in serious decay, no plan has been announced on how things are going tobe fixed and tackled and someone is saying it is as a result of planning?

[quote author=i_laugh link=topic=224031.msg3385422#msg3385422 date=1232962928]when drivers are reckless on the roads and accidents happen - they say it is the fault of the government, even when the roads are good and free, they say it is because of bad roads and blame government - na wa o-. I have been in Abuja for almost three weeks, Abuja roads are one of the best in the world, yet, accidents happen here every sinlge day since I have been here - yet, people who know nothing, people who are out to talk just for the sake of talking, they come here and write what they know nothing about - is bad road the only cause of road accidents worldwide?[/quote]@i_laugh are you actually seriousy trying to use Abuja as a benchmark measurement for development in the whole of Nigeria? Abuja is actually more of an "un-Nigerian" city in that it is an exception to what partains everywhere else so no need to lecture on development in Abuja since i have seen what is going on there. The article said the footballers were "on their way to play a match in Abuja" so it does not say they were driving in Abuja's 'exception to the rule' federal good roads. In the first line of the article it says the accident occured in Plateau state. So do you know the quality of roads in Plateua state? Isn't the lagos-benin road a federal road. How many federal roads have been built since the emergence of the new "democracy" and how much money has been provided by the budget for such? Sure there are issues of "Nigerian driving" we could all speculate because such exist but let it not be used as a means of white washing over the issue of neglect in provision of basic infrastructure and maintenance.