₦airaland Forum

GreyLaw:
Evidence, evidence. That's how thieves walk free because they weren't caught. At least, CNN showed satellite footage. They showed at least one dead person; Sanwo-Olu said two dead. At least the Army has now agreed they went there with live bullets. Some people are just insufferable!

Oppressed and still smiling and high-fiving the oppressors.

How come you didn't hear the part where the army said it did not use the live bullets? Do you expect that they would not have something in reserve in the event of a serious threat to their own lives?

Golan007:
Shut up.

No amount of cancelling or bullying would make me accept lies as facts.

Get that through your skull.

No need to argue with them.

I've seen that the average Nigerian is not necessarily very clever.

lalasticlala:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qkStuWXgySU
#EndSARS: CNN Releases second report on Lekki shootings

CNN has released a second report with videos showing soldiers shooting at unarmed protesters on October 20, 2020 at Lekki Tollgate. The CNN new report also shows protesters running as soldiers open fire at the tollgate.

The fresh report also shows Brig.Gen Ahmed Taiwo admitting before the judicial panel in Lagos that his men took live ammunition to the tollgate. It also shows that Brig.Gen Taiwo’s claim is at variance with information minister, Lai Mohammed's claim that the army fired blank bullets.

Extra: "We continue to stand by our reporting" - CNN tells the Nigerian government

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzRL5gZcCbc

When the brigadier has already stated clearly that the live bullets were reserved for personal protection and not used.

VeeVeeMyLuv:
what is preventing Nigeria from rising now? Do our leaders don't like better things? Just look at the neat tidy well constructed roads! What is wrong in having all roads in Nigeria look so tidy like this?

Nawa!

You think it's only the leaders?

These roads were once nice and neat too with functioning gutters. But you see over there, citizens don't throw trash in gutters

zpakln:
What's the meaning of that? Seems like the other guy was cool with it

He was trying to annoy him so that he would attack him and get sent off. The victim is clearly disgusted but keeping his cool.

Lawsaite:
Did you just ask me about the distinction between civil and criminal cases?
It seems you're out of law textbooks, it wouldn't have cost you more than a minute to Google if vicarious liability applies in Criminal cases since it seems you're too weak to consult your texts.
But no, you decide to battle it out with me while spilling gibberish.
Do I understand distinction between...

Did Me femi give the order to shoot? . So the policemen were firing the shots for their own safety abi sake? No oo, the policemen just decided to fire shots cause I mean, they felt threatened. Try and reason like a common man

Alright let me apologize for my initial harsh approach. Let's go strictly legal. You are partly right in that there is indeed some application of vicarious liability in the sphere of criminal law. However, you are emphatically wrong in the sense that the general rule is that vicarious liability, owing to the twin concepts of actus reus and men's rea, cannot practically be applied to any criminal matter in the common law jurisdictions.

The exceptions to this rule are only when a statute expressly states otherwise.

Now, you are doubly wrong by attempting to apply vicarious liability to this situation, and here is why:

1. The speaker of the house can issue orders to his security staff but certainly is not likely to have done so because the security aides are not likely to have consulted with him on such a basic tactical decision. Every convoy has its own commander who issues tactical orders.

2. Even the person who gave the order cannot be held vicariously liable, because, vicarious liability by definition is the imputation of the actus reus of one person to another who allegedly has the men's rea. In this case, the person who gives the order is a principal offender by virtue of possessing both the men's rea and actus reus.

3. When a police officer errs, vicarious liability would be on police through the IGP, yet, in a criminal matter, it is the same IGP that will initiate prosecution of the police officer. What you are therefore saying, is that the police would prosecute and defend itself in the same case. How?

If you insist, I would welcome Nigerian case law as evidence of your position.

Pierocash:
Mr Lai Mohammed, nobody is justifying the killing of security agents, but however, there is what is called "causality" in philosophy, that is "cause and effect".

You can't thread the den of a lion and not expect some consequence. The murder of security agents,looting ,and vandalism that took place was an aftermath and reprisal attack after the toll gate shooting of innocent protesters.

The protest was peaceful until you and your likes started sponsoring thugs to kill and attack protesters, the final stroke that broke the Carmel's back was the lekki shooting.

For every action, there is equal and opposite reaction

So last last you finally justified the killing of the security agents.

Next time just say it with your chest.

Lawsaite:
Do your research and don't come here to quote me unnecessarily again, did you hear me?
When I applied vicarious liability I fully understood what's involved. On whose command where the policemen acting upon?

lol.

Whats your problem?

Do you understand the distinction between criminal and civil matters? When you are talking about a person giving an order to shoot, that is no more vicarious liability. So did Mr. Femi give the order to shoot? Where did you get that piece of info?

Abeg carry your wahala and go. I am only guiding you - if you refuse to learn that is okay by me.

Lawsaite:
He said security men who shot in the air. Meaning it's not only one person that fired shots.
He went on to say a stray bullet had hit a vendor.


Then he concluded the stupendous lie with, the official that fired the shot has been suspended pending investigation.

Shey the bullet has tag ni? To know from whose gun it came from.

This lie is not only horrible but bloody. That governor should be held accountable.

I am a law student and in law Employers are vicariously liable, under the respondeat superior doctrine, for negligent acts or omissions by their employees in the course of employment (sometimes referred to as 'scope and course of employment').

That officer should be released immediately and the speaker should bear the full brunt of the law.


But in Nigeria here, anything goes. It's always left for God to judge

Those quoting me and saying otherwise, I actually don't have your time.
I expect you to apply such daft reasoning when your relative is in such a similar situation.

Does vicarious liability apply in criminal cases?

Less talking, more reading.

Nigerians.

I said it, and objective people said it. The Nigerian army did not shoot anyone.

Available evidence shows that police came afterwards and shot people.

She's obviously in Canada

wirinet:
Then you did not watch the CNN report this morning. Maybe you use startimes and not DSTV. Go to CNN site to watch the full report of how they traced the bullets recovered to the Nigerian army and even videos of soldiers shooting straight at protesters.

you're going round in a circle.

If the soldiers shot at them, then the intention was to kill. If the intention was to kill, then why did they pause to engage in conversation, and then resume killin later?

Does this make sense?

DeeMain:
Of course, they shot some bullets upwards and some directly. If they shot directly all the time then the numbers of the dead will be in the thousands. Why would you have injured people all over the hospitals in Lekki that night and the next morning if they didn't shoot directly.

Do not respond to me again please. I do not suffer willing fools gladly.

You would do well to remember that you quoted me. I have no interest in you.

wirinet:
So what is your point exactly?

Going off all available evidence, the army did not shoot anyone but there is a high chance that police did.

DeeMain:
There are videos of people very close to the police while they shot in the air or far into the distance. There were videos of people taking dead bodies or the seriously injured near to where the police were. There were periods of breaks and lulls in shooting when some protesters could talk to the military.

Use your head or pray for more sense.

When the army left, the police came. The name of the DPO of Lekki police station has been repeatedly mentioned as the leader of the police squad that came.

1. DJ Switch said they were shot at directly
2. Dj Switch said the soldier said they were ordered to do so - ostensibly, to kill of course
3. Yet you say in between rounds of shooting at people to kill them, they suddenly became so docile as to allow these people to approach them, and even have a nice amicable chat. And the people who were being shot at, instead of running away in fear for their lives, were so bold as to carry dead bodies and drop at the feet of the soldiers.
4. This same DJ Switch who recorded the famous live stream, couldn't capture any video of a dead body...despite claiming to have carried bodies herself


Are you using your own head?

5. So maybe the actions of the police are being conflated with those of the army?

Use a dictionary if you don't know what conflate means.

DJ Switch told CNN that protesters lifted bodies with bullet wounds and put them at the soldiers' feet.

"I said, why are you killing us? Why are you doing this," she said. "He expressly told me: 'I am acting on orders from above.'"


If his orders were to shoot at them, how were they able to approach him to drop bodies at his feet and even hold a conversation without getting shot?

. And accounts from eyewitnesses establish that after the army withdrew, a second round of shooting happened later in the evening.

Who did the second round of shooting? Why is this being glossed over?

sambrow:
I should say thanks.

lol...why?

easyelliot:
Water break, for African players who have been in Europe tooooo long

It is not as if they cannot do without the water. But ask yourself, why play without water when you have it available?

This might be a tough game. With a bad pitch, the game will likely be long balls and there is no target man.

watch live

https://www.facebook.com/100009584439780/videos/2827775134218607/

MIMOSAXY:
Just imagine.

You called someone a social media handler and you're giving excuses for his location. Will the info come via NIPOST

Defending the atrocities of this administration especially the Lekki ordeal is not a must except they're your paymaster.

You skipped the substantive gist to address the addendum as though it were the gist. And you expect me to have answers answer for you?

Tonimax:
Oh my God I thought I have seen it all

Who did this to you

How did what u typed make sense to you

Young chap I'm not responsible for your lack of understanding.

Let's be objective.

It's clear to me that the person handling the social media was simply not aware of the presence of the troops at the toll gate.

Is this the first time you have seen a social media handler out of touch with information?

The army, other than the initial denial of being at the toll gate by its social media handler, has been pretty consistent. I might point out to you that a directive to deny being there wouldn't have made any sense since of course there were too many witnesses.

Additionally, it should be noted that the handler may be anywhere in the world, Abuja for example, and may not be briefed on every single movement of troops.

The available evidence shows that other than this, the story present ed by the army is consistent and feasible.

tensazangetsu20:
The truth is always in the pudding. Wait until it's on an official website and you will see. They will restrict it to tech and medical courses. Watch and see.

For now the information available is that the visa is for all PhD holders and other categories including those you mentioned are listed. Why create a narrative of your own contrary to this?

And please it is the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Which one is the truth is in the pudding?

tensazangetsu20:
School na scam depends on the course O. Even some engineering courses nowadays are scam. Look at the thread and notice the courses. I bet someone with a petroleum engineering BSC MSC and PhD won't qualify for the visa. The world is changing fast and we are in a new age.

You didn't see ALL PhD holders?

condralbedez:
What will happen if she fail to pay

She'll be sent to prison.

OfficialAwol:
Don't mind the fools. They think every Nigerian is a dead brain zombie like the idiots on Nairaland.

At one point he claimed he offered water to protesters and asked them to go home and observe the curfew and protesters were happy to see the army.

The same people are claiming at another point that the army met a hostile crowd of protesters and hoodlums who pelted the army with water and broken bottles.

The question now is, how did you know a "hostile" crowd was happy to see the army?

Second, how were able to offer water to a "hostile" crowd since you met a hostile situation as aggravated by Col. Bello which made you start firing "blank" bullets?

You see the inconsistency in their. They cant even lie properly.

But they both stayed that the peaceful protest was infiltrated by hoodlums.

Didn't you see that? Do you think it's fair to ignore that just to build a narrative?

OZOnNengiTheory:
To those who see the US as a perfect country when it comes to doing things, I hope you can now see that these people aren't so different from us. Unwillingness to hand over power, corruption, vote buying and other forms of rigging etc. The only thing they know how to do almost perfectly is hiding these rots from the world.

There is nothing so special about the US Afterall

Then you missed the point. I doubt anyone has thought of these people as perfect, rather what they have are working systems to control and defend against human malfeasance. These systems work, and these reports are evidence of that.

Vacora:
Can sanctions, visa bans and embargoes be issued as a result?

Nope. The ICC can only jail individuals and possibly order compensation.

wizzie001:
If this is true, then its surely a welcome development...

I dont know if i'm the only one who feels nothing good would come out of all these panels set up by these governors. But with ICC, its a different ball game!!

As someone who knows International Law and has visited the ICC, and have met several ICC/ICTR prosecutors, I can assure you that no case will come about out of these actions.

1. The requirements to qualify for prosecution are steep and will surely not be met
2. There is an ongoing legal proceeding which the Rome Statute respects
3. The ICC has no enforcement mechanism and relies on member States to voluntarily hand over suspects.

SuperBold:
Before igbos claim the high moral ground


Remember the last tribe to go lynching spree were igbos in enugu

Remember the last tribe to burn down the market of non-indigenes were igbos

The last tribe to destroy place of worship were igbos

The last tribe to loot the hard work of others are igbos when they loot the lorries of Hausa containing food

You hate people pointing out your hypocrisy..... Was I lying?

I'm not Igbo but I would point out to you that the "last to do it argument" does not prove anything when there is the "first to do it" and the "most frequent to do it" that are pointing at one group.