₦airaland Forum

"There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error."
-- [Pickthall's tr.] Qur'an 2:256


"Let there be no violence in religion. Now is right direction manifestly distinguished from
deceit - [Sale's tr.] Qur'an 2:256


Now that's what we're told, and we would really like to believe it - if only "the right direction is distinguished from deceit!" But what are we to make of news reports to the contrary among adherents of the religion of peace who would rather seek to employ compulsion to achieve their ends? It's happening again in a Muslim country - Pakistan!


"The Christian community, a tiny minority, received an anonymous letter demanding they convert or face the consequences."

BBC Online - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6663305.stm

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"Other recent examples are bombings of music stores — including two blasts in Charsadda last week — threats to barbers not to shave customers' beards and pressure for the closure of schools for girls."

International Herald Tribune Online - http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2007/05/10/asia/AS-GEN-Pakistan-Christians-Threatened.php

-----------------

"Pakistan’s two million plus Christian community has long complained of discrimination, including in terms of employment opportunities, and has often found itself on the receiving end of threats, particularly after 9/11, when the Musharraf government aligned itself with Washington in its war against “terror”.

IRIN - http://www.irinnews.org/Report.aspx?ReportId=72283

-----------------

"In one of the more published incidents in 2002, five people were killed, two of them Americans, when suspected Islamic militants set off grenades at a church in Islamabad's heavily guarded diplomatic enclave."

WorthyNews - http://www.worthynews.com/christian/pakistan-militants-force-christians-to-convert-to-islam-and-shut-churches/

Lol. . . nope, no hell's gonna break loose.

It's a legitimate question, but only needs to be contextualized.

Where are the muslimahs on the Forum?

@topic,

It all depends on who are being referred to as 'Fanatics'. As davidylan has said in some other thread, there are some he has eruditely tagged as members of the CCCA - and I would have to agree with him.

If talking about publicly affecting issues is now to be interpreted as being fanatical, the simple thing to do is ignore the threads/topics/motherboards that elicit such concerns to the reader.

There are people who pretend to be accusing others of being 'fanatics', but who still haven't realized that they number first on their list of accusations. The question then is: where do we draw the line??

@taofeekcom,

taofeekcom:
actually the issue of facing the east which is simply facing the Kaaba in Makka was an instruction from Allah

I appreciate your succinct post on the topic of this thread; but even so, you would be wrong to infer that facing the east is simply facing the Kaa'ba.

Not everyone who faces the direction of the sunrise is actually facing the direction of the Kaa'ba! For those on the Western Hemisphere, it may be alright to say they're facing the qiblah. However, for those on the Eastern hemisphere, facing the same east would mean that they're trying to face the direction of the sun but with their backs turned on the Kaa'ba.

What direction would people in Oman and  India be facing if they were turned towards the sunrise direction? Would they not have their backs turned on the Kaa'ba? Check the maps and see for yourself.


@segestar,

segestar:
from our knowledge of geography, no matter where u are, the sun always rises from the east and sets in the west. what about that?

That still does not mean that everyone facing the east is actually facing the Kaa'ba. The only way that could happen is if the Kaa'ba was located in the sun itself!


Meanwhile, while this is an interesting thread and topic with insights from many (Telly B's maps na wah!); has any Muslim made a serious effort to tell us what actually is the significance of the Kaa'ba and the black stone? If the face of 'Allah' is everywhere one turns, what difference does it make if one does not face the direction of the kaa'ba in prayer??

KinkyJay:
Seconded!

When you hang out long enough with pretenders, you would always agree with them if you're one yourself.  

@jerrymania,

There are two issues you highlighted in your opening post:

jerrymania:
I have been one of those religious christians one time in my life burning with "fire" and "brimstone".

(a) you happened to have been your own pretender, and it took you this long to realize the weakness of your drama

(b) your 'religious christianity' does not tessellate with authentic Biblical Christianity.

jerrymania:
But i've come to realise that Christianity as a Religion is actual pretence.

If you had not been playing your own fake, pretentious religiosity for that long, you'd have known the difference. The Bible speaks of Christianity more as a relationship where God is our Father and believers are His children by faith in Jesus Christ.

jerrymania:
No one wants to break out of the shell.And nowadays the veil is opening and so many christians are seeing the lies that has been cooked up for ages.

Christians have no shells to break out of, because your religious Christianity just happens to be pretentious all along. And yes, Christians have been and are still seeing the lies that have been cooked up against Christ down through the ages; and for all that, more people are coming to know the wonderful saving grace in Jesus Christ.

jerrymania:
Christians are all pretenders, religious pretenders

Ah yes, that's one more lie that you've cooked up; and it still won't take you anywhere nearer the truth of who Christians are. You remind me of this verse:

"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." -- 1John 2:19

Christians are not pretenders. Inspite of all the criticisms, Christians who know their relationship with Jesus Christ continue to grow in His love and grace. Would you rather like to reconsider your pretences and seek the real?

@belloti,

belloti:
Gwaine, don't come with that distasteful whiplash again. no muslim has ever defended the killing of toyin here and none will ever.

If Muslims actually want to disavow the murder, they should have fished out the murderers in their midst long ago. The Islamic law of Qisas is the game being played here; and that is why up until now, Muslims will continue to make such pretences.

belloti:
As for the Hindus i think they deserve more sympathy from the christians who both has mortals as their gods. We muslims can not worship any human, plant or animal. We worship An Omnipotent God that was never born and can never die, not even on a cross or in a veterinary farm.

Muslims claim they do not worship any human, plant or animal. On closer look, we want to know: (a) why Muhammad pronounced judgement on anyone who would cut a lote tree; (b) why Muhammad's name has to be mentioned in the shahada; (c) why Muhammad is venerated above other prophets inspite of the Muslim claim that all prophets are equal and they make no distinction between them?

@deeni,

What's happening to you? Even though you may wish things were somewhat different from facts on ground, is that reason enough for you to deny the Holocaust?

@babs787,

babs787:
@stimulus

The time has come for me to respond to your allegations that I have been deriding Jesus. Before I point out the facts for you, you should know that muslims here have been very conscious when it comes to the issue of Jesus christ. We have his story in my book, we believe in him and his mother so we can never disrespect him but you christians have been doing that unkowingly and when muslims try pointing out these to you, you resort to all sort of things going as far as telling them that they have been deriding your jesus. Bring more proof where I have been deriding jesus and I will proof it for you from my book and your book.

Rubbish. Your pretences are not going to wash with the facts. Your continued calumny against Christianity is a direct attack on the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, which you babs787 have surreptitiously engaged in. Here's an example as a reminder (my comments underneath it) :

#1. Jesus Vs. Prophecy
Excerpt: "I came across some prophesies of God Jesus which I decide to put across to my
christian friends to assist in explaining to me because the Jesus is my book is never a liar"

so, by implication, is the Jesus in the Bible a liar?

What was that kind of statement supposed to reveal - that you're a saint who "loves Jesus", yes??

If you're going to discuss, you do so. The continued deliberate calumny against Christianity from you in particular as the reason why I decided to just focus on another motherboard (Politics). Only to visit the Religion motherboard to find that in addition you could not resisit the temptation of mentioning me in most of your posts. What kind of silly game were you playing??

babs787:
Now as for your quote above, this is one of the verses posted

Mathew 10 v 23: but when they persecute you in this city, flee ye unto another city, for verily, I say unto you, ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the son be come.

Note; the disciples of Jesus fled and they have now perished for 2000 years with no sign of the Jesus.

And what was that supposed to prove, in relation to your statement that "the Jesus is (sic) my book is never a liar"?? If you're quoting from the Bible, should that give grounds for that silly talk and deliberate derision of the Jesus Christ of the Bible??

Incase you're pretending once again about the above verse in your quote, let me remind you of what Islam teaches:

Sahih Bukhari Book 34, #425

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "by him in Whose Hands my soul is, son of Mary (Jesus) will shortly descend amongst you people (Muslims) as a just ruler and will break the Cross and kill the pig and abolish the Jizya (a tax taken from the non-Muslims, who are in the protection, of the Muslim government). Then there will be abundance of money and no-body will accept charitable gifts

In your usual hypocrisy, you're quick to here quote Matthew 10:23 as a complaint that Jesus' second coming was not "soon"; but you forgot the statement of Muhammad in the hadith abov teaching that Jesus was to descend on Muslims SHORTLY - and after 14 centuries, that "shortly" is still NOT fulfilled!!

This is one of the silly games that drove your zeal every morning to the Forum, spewing out your pretentious "questions". The thing is, you just don't mess with me whenever you're happy-clappy to launch your calumny against Christ and the Bible. You really don't know how far you can take this - and I can bet you that if you push your luck, no Muslim would like to return to the Religion motherboard. https://bestsmileys.com/whipping/5.gif

You simply don't go around playing silly games like that and pretending your lust even further.

babs787:
I gave you links that showed that bibles were written according to the church one belongs. I also gave you proofs that the original message of Jesus is lost or corrupted which made people wrote many things in the bible claiming that it was written by Jesus WHEREAS jesus never knew anything about most of the things being preached by christians today.

There again - I hope you see how you've come back claiming the same thing you couldn't be man enough to state in the thread I opened?

Let me ask you babs787: If "the original message of Jesus is LOST", what does that say of your Qur'an?? What is the doublespeak that you guys keep making all over the place and still come back trying to force Muhammad into Deuteronomy and John's Gospel?

This kind of position is nothing short of hypocrisy and cowardise! Claiming that something is LOST (which again means that it "cannot be found", as you stated in another thread), is not the same thing as trying to use the Bible to "prove" your lost stories!! Whenever you're debating issues with me, do yourself the favour of throwing that illiterate thoughtlessness out - it won't get very far with me! https://bestsmileys.com/angry2/5.gif

babs787:
The above verse referred to jesus as telling his disciples to flee when persecuted that he would join them before they left for another city which never materialised. Do we say Jesus said the above? Far from that, 82% of those sayings are not his. Hope you can see for yourself that I have not been deriding him. I can never do that because he is well respected by muslims but some christians have been attributing some sayings to him which he is very unaware of.

If you actually love Jesus, you would not make statement that ridicule Him anywhere - even if He's mentioned in the Bible or any other book for that matter! You went out to castigate Christianity, and in your short-sighted adventure, you found it convenient to deride him so slyly.

Meanwhile, since you're claiming that 82% of those sayings are not his, what has happened to Muhammad's failed prophecy in hadith Sahih Bukhari Book 34, #425 ??

babs787:
#2. O Worshippers of The Messiah, We Have A Question
Excerpt: "Then he emerged from the vagina as a tiny baby, opening his mouth and seeking the breast, . ."
[that is how they ask "A Question" and expect Christians to respond, yes?]


Brother, its just like the first response I gave to your allegation. Christians have been saying many things which jesus is never aware of. Jesus made it clear in the bible the difference between him and his creator, yet christians go as far as calling Jesus God etc. If you care to read about Jesus from my book, go to Quran 3 and start from verse 45.

Please babs787, I'm not a product of your reverse thinking. The statement quoted above was made by a MUSLIM!! So, don't even try to give me another repugnant excuse.

babs787:

#3. Was Jesus Sent To The Whole World Or Prophet Muhammad
Excerpt: "This topic has led many lazy Muslims at the crossroads, being easily deceived
by the so called Christians with their man-made religion (Pauline Christianity). . .


Oh sure,I said that. Muslims have been deceived many times that without jesus there is no salvation and that he came for the whole wordly which he never did. . . .  Most of things you called deriding are plain truth and nothing more but as the saying goes, truth is always bitter

Yes, you said that - and we should applaud you for referring to Christianity as "man-made religion", with the superscript of "deceived by the so called Christian"??  You see how you're only wasting effort explaining your open, unbridled vitriol?

No qualms. This is the reason why no whimper is going to make any sense from any Muslim on this Forum (including Christians who are happy to be "politically correct". You have only just confirmed once again the hideous fact that you have been on a calculated adventure to ridicule Jesus, Christianity and the Bible - by your very words. Well done.

I hope when out-of-place things are being said about Muhammad and Islam, you'll remember your callous "apologetics" here?? Since your derogation of Christianity is what you call "plain truth", I would only return in a few weeks from official assignment to read the "plain truth" people give about Islam.

Enjoy them. 

@babs787,

babs787:
@stimulus

Brother stop playing hide and seek with me. I am asking you, where did you get your story from that it never happened. I need your proof please.

Still the same issue. Let me have your proof that it never happened.

And your game is supposedly effective enough to help you escape through the back door? Not so cheap, babs787.

Muhammad made a claim NOWHERE found in Jewish religious history; and you're coming now like a mallam to ask me for "proof" of Muhammad's claim!! See how you reason backwards??

babs787:
Am still asking you to provide me the proof probably from your complete bible written differently from the jewish bible. Go on and supply me the info please.

Where in the Jewish Bible did the Jews ask Moses the very thing Muhammad said they did??

babs787:
Okay please I don't know who a prophet is. Kindly tell me who a prophet is. Thanks

Your pretences are too thin. When you're ready to reason, answers will come. If you think all these silly games you've been playing will work, you've got another thing coming.

babs787:
Brother I know that is your problem but will answer unless you answer my questions first.

Cheers.

Na today your nightmare start? "You-first-me-last" - who do you think you're gambling with?? If you've got no answers to the disguised polytheism in Islam, say so simply. You don't have to take a heart attack that your cover has been blown!!

babs787:
We are beginning to see real dancers. If you want babs to address your questions, give me two or three questions and provide the full vtranslations, then be rest assured that babs will answer you. The reason for asking for the full translation is that I learnt that you often misquote verses like you did here
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52621.0.html#msg1105867

Another crap! You did not wait to rank-xerox between seven to ten questions at once in your adventures, but now you're begging for just[i] two or three[/i]!! Your cover has been blown - get raving mad if you want to!

@babs787,

babs787:
@noisycheeks

Sister, anybody telling you the truth will always go babs' way.

How unfortunate!

babs787:
You are still here accusing me of giving me long passages when you have not been able to refute my response to your lies especially on the issue of contradictions. I have provided you enough evidence but its now left for you to rebut them. You went lifting questions/contradictions from www.answering-islam. com and posted here, yet babs never complained but when he replied you with same, you started shouting because your authors have been exposed. How many verses quoted wrongly BY YOUR AUTHORS have I corrected, yet you still have the audacity to say that babs is posting long passages. Go to any christian website, pick anything on Islam and be rest assured that you will be refuted. Am I am still looking forward for more questions and when I am through, I will post my own fresh questions.

^
||

   https://bestsmileys.com/signs15/19.gif


Just quite the begging and face issues. You're whining now because you antics have been blown to reveal you can't think for yourself unless you lift articles from your anti-Christian websites, dress them as your own, and then pretend a scholarship even you can't understand.

When you're done dancing the belly-ache, we will help you change your username.   

@babyosisi,

babyosisi:
well done Stimulus.
His"inteligence" is so glaring.
We are all in awe

The guy neva see nothing yet, lol. For a long time he's been getting away cheaply with his al-taqiyya. . . too bad for him now that his falsehood has to be exposed publicly like this.

@babs787,

babs787:
posting lenghty rejoinder yet making no sense. What are you trying to say up sir?

Pretend you didn't understand the question, which is only typical of your games. Sorry, this time you have managed to further confirm it.  

babs787:
Take a look at that line again: "the Torah contains story of Jesus" - even the Qur'an does not teach that. Have you become another Khalifite overnight?

If the Quran does no teach Gospel, why does it contain JESUS' STORY, HIS DISCIPLES AND HIS PEOPLE?

Where did the Qur'an teach that "the TORAH contains story of Jesus", babs787?? Has the "TORAH" suddenly become the "GOSPEL" (INJIL) to you? Why all these doublespeak and pretences about your earlier statements? Play more games: you simply can't pretend any antics here with me. https://bestsmileys.com/tongs/4.gif

Meanwhile, since you also categorically referred to the TORAH and INJIL as 'BOOKS', don't even try snaking round your statement and now pretending they are "STORIES"!! My question still remains:

WHERE ARE THE TORAH, INJIL AND PSALMS THAT THE QUR'AN SPEAKS ABOUT??

Once again, let's see you come back hopping round the question and proving to your brethren that you're a complete stranger to truth and reason!

babs787:
Now you claimed that the books are not included, please what does the gospel given to jesus contains?

I made no claims. Rather, I asked you questions; and from your answers I drew the inference from what you stated:

". . .the original message of both Torah and Gospel cannot be found"!!!
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1061562

. . .THE TORAH WAS LOST
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1045746

Come back and play your deception at trying to twist what you said; or go back to those threads and edit those lines so that readers will celebrate your conceit!

babs787:
If the quran didnt contain those books, why are we having jesus story and that of Moses?

Did you not openly declare that "those books" cannot be found?? What kind of farcical gamble are you attempting here that is only making matters worse for you??

babs787:
Brother, why can't you reason for a minute and stop going round in circles. You accused me of omitting some words from the Quran, can you please give me the translation of other authors? You are still saying that I deleted some words, compare other authors with the one given and tell me if the verses are not referring to Quran as against your lie that the verses referred to other books.

If you're not deliberately blinding yourself or reading with smoking lantern, go back and compare the quotes - I neatly arranged them there for you because I suspected you would come back making this silly statement. You're so very predictable.

babs787:
Abegi, stop deceiving yourself. Give me the full verses of the translators and tell if their meanings are different.

Were you blind before you offered Hilali-Khan's translation and denounced both the translations of YusufAli and of Shakir - even going so far as to label them "deluded authors that lied"??

babs787:
Brother, still the same issue, the verses of the Quran do not change despite different authors. You have been accusing me of dishonesty all these while, can you please give me the full verses and tell me the meaning? You have been going round in circles and making no sense, please wake up brother. What does the statement mean 'and (also believed in) His Scriptures'.? You know you said in your previous post that the verse referred to books which you are trying to say that they are lost. Now am asking you again, what does the highlighted statement mean to you? ARE the verses not referring to Jesus? Thanks  

Look at this shameless cheat!! Are you suffering from shock relapses, babs787?? How is it that you're now turning round and accusing me of your own statement? When I asked you what the Qur'an means by "His books" and "His Scriptures", this is what you said earlier:

Brother I have answered up. His books are the Torah, injil, and the Quran

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.0.html#msg1102498

Now answer the question: WHERE are the TORAH and the INJIL of the Qur'an, babs787?

Let's read another one of your twisted denials - just be my guest.

babs787:
Brother stop wasting your time unnecessarily, you and your folks have been the one using all sort of names for babs which he never cared.

Rubbish. How many times have you used all sorts of name-calling on others that people did not care enough to reason with you? You don't even have the shame for your slow-wittedness to have referred to your Muslim authors as LIARS!

babs787:
I never misquoted anything, you are the one confusing yourself.

Deceive yourself - the records are there.

babs787:
All the translators said the same thing unless you want to deceive yourself.

Olodo.   If you knew this, what was the point of your quoting Hilali-Khan's verses after I have used other translations?

babs787:
In your first post, you claimed that the verses were referring to other books whereas the verses referred to Jesus and the Gospel.

With all the sobbing, have you been able to provide an answer as to where the Gospel/Injil is (after having claimed that they were LOST)?

babs787:
You posted three rejoinders in which I have provided detailed responses to your allegations.

Your responses, or your usual plagiarism?

babs787:
Are you trying to deny the incompleteness of the bible?

If you are not satisfied with my answers, then give me the answer to my questions. Your usual denials is not working here.

babs787:
Another question again, you know that Muhammed never met Moses and Jesus, so how come we are having their stories in the Quran.

I didn't ask you to give me "stories" - and the Qur'an didn't call them "stories"; rather, it calls them BOOKS!! If you can't provide the BOOKS, the Qur'an is INCOMPLETE! You can cry all you want, but your own silly games will continually be exposed and applied to the Qur'an. https://bestsmileys.com/expressions/10.gif

babs787:
Again, what does the Torah contains and what does the Gospel contain. Lest I forget, what does the Psalm contain?

All the three books which you have claimed "cannot be found", yes?? Oga babs787, you need to be schooled up with more fraud - your fellows have bitterly let you down. When your "Torah" and "Gospel" are LOST, what nonsensical arguement are you trying to drum here in the usual al-taqiyya tune??

babs787:
Thanks.

Maybe when you are able to supply answers, we will continue from there.

"Maybe" - because you were biting your fingers in frantic hope that I would never reply, just because I'm going away for a few weeks, yes?? Sorry bros, you will not get away so cheaply. This Islamic under-scholarship you've been pretending all along will. . . (you guessed it). . . PERISH!!  

Babs787, just don't try your games with me. You're simply https://bestsmileys.com/signs11/9.gif

@babs787,

Even though I'm going to be away for a few days and still busy outside my location, your recent comebacks are such a laugh that they present no real substance other than your usual drivel. Grow up and show your wits if you've got any, because you've always been playing the same tired old silly games which have not served you any good this time around ion the Forum, and definitely not on this thread.

babs787:
stop deceiving yourself. Go to 'Is the bible complete" and refute the posts and stop wasting your time. Let me have your rebuttal to my posts.

You're being ridiculous with your sobs here. I deliberately opened this thread to answer most of your plagiarized challenges - go to the first paragraph of my first post on this thread and read it again: "Here are my responses to the challenges you offered in several threads." You're dancing around issues now because you've been exposed for the fraud that you are, after pretending that those plagiarized articles are your otiose scholarship.

babs787:
Complaining? Never, when the time comes, babs will resurrect some threads and we will continue. Please rebut my response to your lenghty posts.

I can't believe you're sobbing this much and now complaining that my posts were lengthy. What do you call your lengthy rank-xeroxed articles?

babs787:
Quote from: babs787 on May 09, 2007, 01:39 PM
TRUTH HAS COME FALSEHOOD IS BOUND TO PERISH.
Na so. That is why we continue to oblige you the falsehood in islam - and it is only a matter of time before your falsehood will perish. Sit tight and hold a towel.

Yes you are right especially the falsehood about the completeness of the bible.

What are you agreeing 'yes' to - that you should hold a towel, or that your falsehood will perish as your hypocrisy has been exposed?

babs787:
Oh really, you imagine the pot calling kettle black, did you use your brain when you posted three lengthy rejoinders thinking that babs will never have time for your lies but you were shocked and babs went as far as revealing your falsehood more in the areas of giving quoting wrong verses from my book.

Olodo. Where are the wrong verses?? You really don't know how to guard your pus-brains up until now, to the extent that you're admitting there are 'wrong verses' from your book! I quoted from the translations of Shakir and of Yusuf Ali: where did I misquote them? I'm sure they would be throwing a party to celebrate your calling them "deluded authors that lied", yes?!?

babs787:
Muslim camp? You can see that you are confused yourself. Thats one thing about Islam, if any falshood wants to approach it, the muslim world is quickly alerted and necessary steps is taken. How many homes do you see the Quran and how many muslims are aware of him?

In the first place, you're further exposing your fraud. You have boasted severally about the Qur'an; but the moment your bubbles burst, you're wailing hysterically. Whatever the case, it is alarming that you could go so far to call your Muslim authors "liars"; and I wonder what "necessary steps" your muslim world took to expose your calumniating sham against those Muslim authors?

babs787:
I thought you are claiming that Jehovah witnesses are not part of you amd that they are not christians.

Where have I discussed the Jehovah Witnesses, or called them the same thing you called your Muslim authors/translators - "deluded authors that lied"?? I may not agree with them; but you won't find me referring to them with vexed illiterate name-calling as you did your Muslim authors.

babs787:
What gear? Where have I claimed to have been a Muslim? I relaxed, but since you're know for your hypocrisy and antics to continue your propaganda, I served you your own soup, nice and clean. Enjoy!!

Really, yes you revealed your falsehood again.

Whay falsehood? You see how empty you are? If you had nothing to offer, why come back trying to circle round issues and saying absolutely nothing to the gist of my response? Typical of your games - so that you can go and make your otiose noise in other threads about having raised questions which I haven't rebutted! Too bad your websites failed to give you materials to plagiarize and paste here, because they just weren't thinking you'd ever have to face issues such as you found here. Your games have failed you miserably.

babs787:
Honestly I keep saying it, we are now seeing the liars. Common, go there and rebut the links on papyril. You are laying emphasis on some missing books, didnt I give you missing verses from the bible too? Your lies have been exposed so no where to hide.

I'm quite used to your slobber accusations. When you're done sobbing, let us know. Just only the issue of the missing books of the Qur'an and you're taking such a bad hit as if your last hour has arrived! If I had served you the missing verses all at once, would we be reading that you took a heart attack?

babs787:
You are still here defending the indefendable. It is very glaring with those links supplied that your bible is imcomplete. Do I need say more? Common be a man and stop deceiving yourself. Even a non muslim told your sister same in that thread to stop wasting her time because babs supplied the facts needed.

Who's the non-muslim whose 'politically correct' drama has been put to rest? It's just so silly that your empty noise here is just on the one issue of the missing books in the Qur'an, which you claimed were lost! After circling round that issue and exposing your fraud of doublespeak, you still are left with an INCOMPLETE Qur'an!

babs787:
Brother, it seems you are confused. I thought you have asked those questions in your three posts and I have responded, you only need to go and read again and get back at me. Are you still saying your bible is complete?

If you weren't satisfied with my answers, where are the missing books of the Qur'an, babs787? This shamless games you've been playing will not wash away your fraud.

babs787:
I don't need to waste time with you, fact has been established you are just shouting unnecesaarily which is very normal when falsehood is being revealed. Go to the thread 'is bible complet' and read more for yourself.

When you're done wailing for the exposure of your fraud here, come back for more. If you're deliberately pretending not to have read the first paragraph of my first post here, you still won't get behind this hypocrisy of yours.

babs787:
Okay professor, what do the Injil and Gospel contain? What do the books of Moses and Jesus contain? Thanks

What is the difference between the "Injil" and the "Gospel", babs787? And what again did you say about the Torah and Injil of the Qur'an - LOST or otherwise?

babs787:
Second, you never made the assumption that any of those books including the Torah, Gospel and Psalms were included in the Qur'an. Scroll back up and see what you said as I quoted; and if you're trying to play silly with this, then I will quote it directly for you once again:

I never did? We are now seeing who has been acting silly all these while. Read up again for understanding professor.

Don't make matters worse as it already is for you. What nonsensical talk are you now trying to dribble round the open statements you made earlier?? Have you no shame at all? Come back and deny them again and let's know how big an unblushingly caviling hypocrite you are!

babs787:
Quote from: babs787 on April 17, 2007, 11:06 AM
IS THE QURAN WRONG IN STATING THAT THE TORAH WAS LOST OR CORRUPTED?click here and read it <https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html>!

Quote from: babs787 on April 23, 2007, 10:48 AM
The Quran is the last book revealed to the seal of the prophets because the original message of both Torah and Gospel cannot be found.click here to read it <https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html>!

There they are! So, don't even try to cut corners with me, because I warned you in the first post of this thread that you will come back exposing your dishonesty, deception and hypocrisy!! I should have captioned this thread: "BABS787 EXPOSED!!" and make readers see the hypocrite that you are. You can't even stand up to your own words, and then you have the temerity to be calling Christians liars! I hope your brethren will see you exposed for the real person that you are!! Enjoy the exposure!!


Haba, Nairaland users I tire for this liar o. I DIRECTED HIM TO LINKS CONTAINING THE MISSING BOOKS AND DIFFERENT BIBLES AND HE IS HERE ACUSSING ME OF LYING AGAIN WHEN TRUTH HAS BECOME GLARING.

No matter how much you try to belie the issue here, you're only managing to convince readers of your fraud and cowardize. The links I posted there clearly has your quote saying that "THE TORAH WAS LOST" (1st link); and "both Torah and Gospel cannot be found" (2nd link).

Now you thought you were being clever in changing the URL for the links to the first page of the thread, and try to deceive readers into thinking those were the links in my quote! Here they are:

My 1st link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1045746
changed by you: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html

My 2nd link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html#msg1061562
changed by you: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-46848.0.html

They all link to the same thread; but the links I provided (which you altered) were supposed to direct readers to the particular pages where I clipped your quotes from!! This is the kind of hypocrisy and shameless caviling that you're known for - and I hope that your adulators can see you for the pathological sleazebag that you've made out of yourself!

Let me ask you again: In the links I offered, did you never make the statements: "THE TORAH WAS LOST" and "both Torah and Gospel cannot be found"?? From your answers, you will confirm your deceptive trademark.

Hehehe. . .

The problem with his specie is simple: everybody is a liar except them, even if their own lies are staring them in the face! That is why, when his games were exposed, he went in a mad fit to refer to the Muslim authors I quoted from as "deluded authors that lied"!! https://bestsmileys.com/clueless/6.gif

I can just imagine his adulators rubbing his skull and consoling him for his blown cover! https://bestsmileys.com/comfort/4.gif

Just leave babs787 - his otiose antics are weathered now, and he's snivelling so badly from being served his own burger.

It's been the usual thing to castigate Christianity with his plagiarized articles. No wahala. Ask him just about the same questions of the Qur'anic "TORAH" and "INJIL", and he's still dancing around in endless complaints. https://bestsmileys.com/lol/10.gif

@babs787,

babs787:
@noisycheeks


You still went to www.answering-islam.com again. Please go there and lift more. This will your second time of repeating same set of questions, are your websites running out of questions?

This up there? Lol. . . https://bestsmileys.com/signs13/17.gif

When you're done whimper and snivelling, grow up and face issues. All your borrowed tricks are quite weathered now; so this repeated wailing about people posting articles from other websites is not going to help you one tiny bit. https://bestsmileys.com/evil/10.gif

When you were plagiarizing articles from other websites, dressing them up as your own to pretend your night-school graduation, no one said anything. But as soon as the same application is served for your attention, you're now crying like a wounded sardine. You're here grovelling about the "second time" nossycheek is serving "the same set of questions", as if you have ever thought out issues on your own.

Go there and lift as many as you might, and come back showing the Forum how empty you have been from day one.

@davidylan,

davidylan:
Babs the escapist. . . looking for another loophole to exploit again? Doing a rapid dialogue with our legs when our lies are exposed eh?

I no fit laugh! The joker thinks his vexations are going to wash his misery after having been exposed for the fraud that he is. Typical of his species to make noise like that. We dey wait. Truth has come, abi? He's about to watch his faslehood perish!

@babs787,

babs787:
Babs is never moved by your insults because it has become your trademark whenever you have nothing to offer.

Keep sobbing miserably, as if you have not insulted people who tried to reason with you. It has now become convenient for you to borrow lines from other dicussants to pepper up your whimpers when your own burgers have been served you.

babs787:
As for this thread, when am through with your allegations in som threads, babs will ask you questions on how 700 men turned to 7000 men and vice versa

We are waiting. When you are done plagiarizing other people's articles and dressing them as you own, then we also shall be examining the Quraish wonder of the Islamic mathematics.

babs787:
Till then, keep lying to yourselves here till babs comes your way.

Grow up and be man enough to admit that your antics have been exposed. If you cannot stand up to your words, then you're not worth making all that noise on the Forum. Ask your bootjackers for advise on new tricks - and for all of that, you'll find out it won't work!

Mosetra:
@stimulus

You are a genius! a, proud to have you as a Christian brother. Keep it up and God bless

Many thanks, @Mosetra. I can trust that babs787's noise is absolutely nothing for you to worry about. The antics of such collied slow-wittedness are meant to be consigned to just one place: rubbish bin.

@pilgrim.1,

Well, babs787's antics are only coming to light now because many people have argued that he was "sincere", blah-blah! Rubbish. A sincere seeker of truth would not be playing the sort of games he has ever been playing on the Forum; and many people surprise me in their pretences to not have noticed at all.

I'm not vexed at all by anything he does - none of which is new. But I'm sick and fed up to the back teeth with all the 'politically correct' calls some Christians have been posting in the hope of smoothening over this fraud.

The more sinister thing is that fellow Muslims on the Forum, who should have seen his deception and cavil by now, are pretending not to take notice! As you said, they should be "quite satisfied to have a Muslim brand respected Muslims as LIARS!!"

And for those same Muslims who might have been pretending, or otherwise avoiding the thread where babs787 categorically made those blunders, please see it in the following link: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.32.html#msg1108087

Did he not often say, "Truth has come, and falsehood is perished"?? Indeed. The fraud which has been glossed over is now exposed. They should enjoy it!!

As for me, I'll just take a long break to attend to more pressing matters in my office. God bless all on Nairaland!!

@pilgrim.1,

Fair enough. I deliberately used Yusuf Ali's translation for two reasons:

(a) Most Muslims praise it as an excellent translation, devoid of any errors, etc, etc. By quoting from his translation, I had intended that the same Muslims would come back and denounce this much-praised translation and confirm my earlier assertion that it does not represent a standard for the Muslim world.

(b) This is only typical to exhibit to Muslims on the Forum that so many issues which they allege against Christianity is actually well-established in their own camp.

Nonetheless, I was glad you could see and admit the fact that there are verses in the Qur'an that reveal Islam is just a religion of disguised polytheism.

@babs787,

babs787:
#9. Where is the Mother of the book, babs787? || Sura 13:39
'Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book.'

Quran 13 v 39: Allah blots out what He wills, and confirms n what He wills. And with Him is the Mother of the Book (Al-Lauh Al-Mahfiz).

Mother of the book used here is the Quran which is the last revelation.

I knew you would fall for this one!! If the "Mother of the Book" is with 'Allah', it only means it is not with Muslims today!! Unless you want to assert that your 'Allah' is living on earth somewhere! Did you miss my question: "[U]WHERE[/U] is the Mother of the book, babs787?" So, if you're telling me that the Mother of the Book is the Qur'an, then it is only stating that it is "with Allah"; and you have to explain which Qur'an is "with Muslims" today!

babs787:

#10. Where are "His Books", and why are they NOT in the Qur'an?
Sura 4:136 - 'O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.'
(see also Sura 2:285)

Brother I have answered up. His books are the Torah, injil, and the Quran.

Thanks for the answer, but that makes them three Books altogether!! Since Muslims have the last of the three (the Qur'an), where are the other two - the Torah and the Injil?? If all three books are "His books" and two of them are "LOST" as you claimed, then certainly the Qur'an is INCOMPLETE book!!

babs787:
The stories of the prophets in the Quran tells that their books have been included. The Torah contains story of Moses and Israel and you have it in the Quran too. So hope you are ok with that?

It will only be sufficient for your to tell us WHERE in the Qur'an any Muslim can find the Torah/Taurât. You're only making unsubstantiated claims here in the hope that no one might find out the deception you're playing at all along. The Qur'an has 114 chapters (not "books"; which one of those chapters of the Qur'an is called the "Torah/Taurât"??

If only you would stop playing these silly games and be man enough to see where your deception has led you. The Torah and Injil are not found in the Qur'an, and reputable Muslim websites and scholars continue to make that claim. Even you have stated openly that they "cannot be found"!! And now again, embarrassed by your own quiddity, you're trying so desperately to claim the opposite - that they have been included"!!

You can't play games with me, babs787. You're the one often quoting: "Truth has come; falsehood is bound to perish!" Now your falsehood is already staring you in the face, and it will certainly perish!

@babs787,

babs787:
#5. Where are the 'Sacred Books' and Books of Deeds? || Sura 54:43 & 52
'Are your Unbelievers, (O Quraish), better than they? Or have ye
an immunity in the Sacred Books? - All that they do is noted in (their)
Books (of Deeds)'

Brother, calm down. The above verses quoted talk about the Quraish people when they disbelieved in the revelations of Allah.

So, where are the revelations (plural - revelationS) of 'Allah'??

babs787:
Let me post them here for you to read

Quran 54v 40: and indeed we have made the Quran easy to understand and remember, then is there any that will remember (or receive admonition)?

V 41: And indeed, warnings came to the people of pharaoh through Moses and Aaron.

V 42: they belied all our signs so we seized them with a seizure of the All-Mighty, All-Capable.

V 43: Are your disbelievers (O QURAISH), better than these [nations of Noah, Lot, Salih and the people of Pharoah who were destroyed?] or have you an immunity (against our torment) in the divine scriptures?

Let me re-quote the last part of that V. 43 again as you offered, and compare with other English translations:

". . . or have you an immunity ([b]against our torment) in the divine scriptures?" (from Hilali-Khan tr.)

YusufAli - ". . .Or have ye an immunity in the Sacred Books?"

Pickthal - ". . .or have ye some immunity in the scriptures?"

Shakir - "or is there an exemption for you in the scriptures?"

The question yet is: where are the "sacred books" and "scriptures"?? Notice that they are in the plural (book[b]s[/b], scripture[b]s[/b]); so you cannot come back claiming yet again that it was pertaining to the Qur'an, since it has never been known as "books". You have simply made a child out of yourself; and playing the name-calling game is not helping your deception.

babs787:
Hope you understood, it is self explanatory?

Quran 54 v 52: And everything they have done is noted in their records of deeds.

Everybody is having his/her records of actions/deeds with God which will be opened to him/her on that day. So you can see that your authors are liars.

What is my worry that you call your own Muslim translators liars?? You're only attacking your camp - as you usually do, because you're so short-sighted as not to see issues in front of your eyes. Keep calling them liars: it is allowed in Islam for Muslims to deride and castigate other Muslims, abi?? Here is a list of those you're calling liars:

Pickthall - "And every thing they did is in the scriptures"

YusufAli - "All that they do is noted in (their) Books (of Deeds)

Shakir - "And everything they have done is in the writings.

SherAli - "And everything they have done is recorded in the Books.

These Muslims in their translations did not tell us that "everyone is having his/her records of actions/deeds"; rather, they translate that verse to convey the understanding that what was meant there are "the scriptures" or "the writings" or "the Books". You can only call them liars because you don't like their translations; but by doing so, you reveal the hypocrite in you as a very queer Muslim who attacks other Muslims!!

babs787:
#6. Where are the mystic Books, babs787? || Sura 26:196
'Without doubt it is (announced) in the mystic Books of former peoples.'

I pity your deluded authors that lied in order to deceive you. This is what we have brother.

Quran 26 v 196: And verily, it (the Quran and its revelation to prophet Muhammed (saw) is announced in the scriptures (i.e torah and the Gospel) of former people.

I hope your fellow Muslims can come here and see you for the real hypocrite that you are!! Not satisfied with misquoting your own Qur'an, you're so vexed about the exposure of your deception that you continue to refer to Muslim authors as "deluded authors that lied!" It is not strange - I know of many Muslim who will castigate their own fellow Muslims and then wear a hypocritical smile later on to say, "Salaam brother!"

Once again, here is what the Muslim authors said in their translations:

Pickthall - "And lo! it is in the Scriptures of the men of old."

Yusuf Ali - "Without doubt it is (announced) in the mystic Books of former peoples."

Shakir - "And most surely the same is in the scriptures of the ancients."

Sher Ali - "And it is surely mentioned in the scriptures of the former peoples."

Now you can continue calling your Muslim translators and fellow brethren "deluded authors that lied"; and I'm sure that Yusuf Ali would like to read your denunciation!!

babs787:
Hope you understood? Former people are the people given the scriptures to. I.e people of Moses with the Torah and that of Jesus with the Gospel.

The question is: WHERE ARE THOSE SCRIPTURES (or "mystic Books"?? After telling us what they mean, could you please grow up and answer the question? Trying to fill this thread with your vexed cavil and unbridled denunciation of Muslims as "deluded authors that lied", is not going to help you escape from the question.

Since Muslims often proclaim that the Torah, Injil and Psalms mentioned in the Qur'an are LOST and cannot be found, what then is Muhammad doing in the OT Torah and the NT Gospel of the Bible that you often desperately quote to "prove" his prophethood? Your game is laughable since your hypocrisy now admits that those Scriptures are referring to "people of Moses" and Jesus. If your Qur'anic Torah and Injil are lost, then Muhammad is not in the Bible! Period. Come back yet again and expose your hypocrisy and doublespeak.

babs787:
#7. Where are the "previous books"? || Sura 20:133
'And they say: Why does he not bring to us a sign from his Lord? Has not
there come to them a clear evidence of what is in the previous books?'

Quran 20 v 133: They say, ‘why does he not bring us a sign (proof) from his Lord’? has there not come to them the proof of that which is written in the former papers (scriptures) i.e the Torah and the Gospel about the coming of the prophet Muhammed (saw)?

Understood?

Olodo.   Since you now admit that the "previous books" are the same as "the Torah and the Gospel", my question remains the same: WHERE ARE THEY?? If they are LOST just as you have said, then Muhammad is not in the Bible!! Can we now move on and expose more of your antics?

babs787:
#8. What is the Book; and where is it today?? || Sura 3:48
'And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel'

Quran 3 v 48: and Allah will teach him (jesus) the Book (i.e Sunnah, the faultless speech of the prophets, wisdoms) and the Torah and the Gospel.

Understood?

I didn't ask you to translate the verse or quote Hilali-Khan's translation. Rather, after all your requoting the verse, can you please tell us WHERE "the Book, the Law and the Gospel" are to be found today?? Haba, alhaji babs, dribbling is all too common among Muslims, we already know. But take style answer my questions and forget the cowardise!!

Secondly, if you're holding onto Hilali-Khan's translation of Quran 3 v 48, then another one of your otiose propaganda has been exposed in that verse! I will compare what you quoted and what is actually in the translation:

yours:
and Allah will teach him (jesus) the Book
(i.e Sunnah, the faultless speech of the prophets,
wisdoms) and the Torah and the Gospel.

Hilali-Khan's:
And He (Allâh) will teach him ['Iesa (Jesus)] the Book
and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom, etc.),
(and) the Taurât (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel).
click here for online English translation of Hilali-Khan

The highlighted and underlined words indicate those you tampered with by removing them! So much for your honesty! You may not regard it as a big deal; but trying to correct my quote of YusufAli's translation by misquoting Hilali-Khan's is deception and cowardise. You're filling this thread with more deception and plagiarized material that you pretend are yours; and then you pretend you have exhibited scholarship. All your efforts at dribbling round the topic is doing just one thing: confirming that the Qur'an is an INCOMPLETE Book - by the very same rule you alleged against the Bible.

Realpoint:
All of you have be to very carefull and stop abusing words againt one another and Almight God remember we can not defend God.If you want to enlighting us, do which I think that is fine and good but not exchanging words like kids. Please don't turn this Nairaland to where people will be mocking religions. Religions are very sensitive things in the world.
A word is enough for the wise.

Thanks

What I really can't understand with you guys is that such "politically correct" appeals ONLY pop up when Christians provide answers to the Muslim tantrums. What makes it politically acceptable for Muslims to mock Christianity, but at the same time a disturbing development for Christians to face up to such mockery?

We have appealed several times for sensible dialogue. What have we got in return?

That aside, read the first paragraph of my first post on this thread - it is only in answer to the challenges offered by Muslim posters. They may not like what they read; but I can be grateful for one thing: the real mindset of the Muslim players have been exposed - so much so that they stop at nothing to refer to their own Muslim authors as liars!! I've only summarized my response to babs787; but the following post is another one of my responses just to point out how he plays his games.

babaibadan:
@unimportant

Christainity gives room for unity , peace and hospitality and not talking down on other pples religion.

I am a devoted christian myself and I don't talk trash about other pples religion.

whatever u believe in is your business and so is mine; u are not in any position to say what the holy quran, voodoo book or any other religious material says or preaches is right or wrong.

No bother. We are all too familiar with the "political correctness" of some of our folks. . . and you have served us one such presently - in your response.

Let me ask: if I'm not in any position to quote their own books, what gives them the rightto quote the Bible for what they see as right or wrong?? Please, play it safe with your umpireship, yes??

As a devoted Christian, I guess you never heard of apologetics? Or, you never read from the Bible that the apostles quoted from the books, cultures, poetries and ideologies of others in order to bring them round to see their own position in contrast with what God had to offer? Go read well - devoted Christians do just that; and that's one of the things that we are set to do here on the Forum.

Details of the above? Ask, and I'll gladly oblige you!

Cheers.

babaibadan:
Some of you "so-called" christians are a total disgrace. Christianity doesnt give room for you to talk trash about other pples religion, dee dee dees

We hear! But may I ask you: does Islam give room for Muslims to talk trash about other pples religion??

@BillGatesFan,

Heaven is guaranteed for those who trust in Jesus Christ.

The question has been asked, I believe, as a matter for discussion. Islamic attacks may continue as long and as much as they wish, it won't change anything.

@jeshua,

You're right - he's known for that. Sorry if I was a bit strong there.

God bless