₦airaland Forum

elampiro: Her name is Maria. Why should the name of the spiritual director be mentioned when there is an instruction to keep quite. I have had a chat with a priest who works with Maria.

You don't know much about the church teachings about private revelations. The church did not say the faithful should not listen or discern such.


In Nigeria a popular seer with messages of coming apostacy has a bishop as his spiritual director. The bishop was chosen by Jesus and he accepted. Before then, the seer who was little boy had no prior knowledge of the bishop.

You make me laugh...only if you knew...

elampiro: I know the history of the Ibos. Can't you see how much they are catholics. That shows you something.

You keep ridiculing the English publications from the Vatican.

I have made my point in this argument. The future will now tell.

Yet in your ranking of Gods people, you only mentioned USA and Israel.

Even Biblical scholars go as close to the original written language as possible, you call them stupid?

Yes, I am looking forward to the future too

elampiro: Yes. That is because the messages are happening in our world today. On a global scale.


However, there are some things I have withheld from this argument because I don't want t cause an irreparable damage. I might produce them in the future should certain things become clearer.

A very good advice, you've just given yourself. Keep your mouth shut until you know what you're talking about.

elampiro: 1. The visionary is well known. Her name is Maria. An Irish Visionary with a bishop as her spiritual director.

2. Her messages in line with those given by St Francis of Assissi, at Latsallete, by late. Fr Stephano Gobi in the book 'To the priests Our Lady beloved sons', John Leary (catholic new visionary with more than one bishop as spiritual director at different times), also in line with the approved massages at Akita, Medjugori, Fatima, Garabandal and many more.

3. The rosary, some dogmas and many feast days were influenced by Jesus' and Mary apparitions and messages. The Divine Mercy was once condemn by the Vatican. A Pope did not encourage Francis of Assisi.

I. My friend you are not dealing with novices here. Her internet name is Maria, just like mine is Syncan. What is the name of her spiritual director? I gave you a name when I quoted anther visionary. I reiterate, no one has seen Maria! She writes: "The woman wishes to be known by the name Maria Divine Mercy and says that it is the wish of Jesus that she remains anonymous to protect her family and to avoid any distraction from the messages."

2. Hogwash. I have followed all those messages, mind you Medjugorje and Garabandal have not received approvals. Your maria may "tap" some of these to develop his/her's. But Hogwash is what I'll use in describing the rest.

3. At least the Visionaries here submitted to the authorities, while yours prophesy from the comfort of his/her closet. Test every spirit is the mandate given to people of God, how do we do this effectively, without seeing the instrument? Let him/her continue to spread milleniarism which has already been condemned by the church (see CCC 676). Yeah and do not forget Nostradamus, his predictions came true as well, you can make him top of your list.

The bible is profitable for all, for its contents are vast. It could serve a wide range of purpose depending on who uses it and what it is being used for. There are historical stories, biological facts, philosophical reasoning,rules guiding people of mutual interests etc. In totality, it is a guide book for people of same belief (Christians), with a narration of their belief history, content and guiding principles. Those who are not believers, could gain from the easily verifiable contents of historical facts, some of these,(for some people), suffices to instill faith. And for Christianity, Faith is imperative, for their God is a being, not experienced by the Five Senses in the natural order; and without super natural influence.

elampiro: God the Father for those born into pagan families, and through no fault of your own, I will grant you Mercy.

Monday, September 16th, 2013 @ 16:20

My dearest daughter the human race is, to a large extent, impervious to My Existence. So many know little about Me, their Father, their Creator. My sacred servants, including all those who believe in Me, the Creator of all that is, have failed to prepare humanity for the punishment which will face them if they do not acknowledge the error of their ways.

A desire to believe that ‘all will be well’ has meant that many of My children do not believe in the existence of Hell. This is a place where people who refuse My Mercy, My intervention to save souls, go. Mortal sin, unless it has been erased through reconciliation, will lead souls into the abyss of Hell. Those who may not be guilty of mortal sin, but who do not believe in Me, and instead believe in an existence which has been created and fabricated in their minds by false idols, have much to fear.

Reject Me, your creator and you will turn yourselves against Me.  You will cut yourself off. Many of you, when the truth of My Divinity is revealed to you, will fiercely oppose Me and nothing I do will save you from the fires of Hell. I can use every Divine Power but I can never force you to accept My Mercy. Nothing only the prayers of chosen souls will help you. This means that you will never see My Face. Anyone who tells you it does not matter if you do not accept My Existence is lying. Only those who accept Me, and through the Mercy of My only Son, can enter My Kingdom. If you are a kind and loving soul, and still reject Me – even when the Truth is made known to you – you, too, will also be cast away from Me. No eternal life will be yours.

I grant the Gift of purification upon all of you now but, in particular, to atheists and pagans. This purification will be painful but in many cases it will open their eyes to the Truth.  For those born into pagan families, and through no fault of your own, I will grant you Mercy. But for those of you who were given the Gospels and who know about the existence of the Triune God, and who now reject Me, there is little hope for you, until you turn back and atone for your sins. Then you must beg for the salvation of your soul.

 

Your Father

God the Most High

.........

The above is a message to a Catholic visionary. This same visionaries has correctly prophesy many of the things happening today, including the resignation of Pope Benedict.

Alarmist at work again, Publishing from his Internet Visionary, an Unknown face behind a keyboard, Who is your visionary? Can you certify that this visionary is even a male or female? What is his/her location? Why do you think the visionary is Catholic? Predictions...reminds me of Nostradamus, he should be first place in your list of prophets. I am not even going to criticize the content, there is no need doing that on an anonymous visionary.

elampiro: A. If you stand on the ground that the Vatican translation of the Pope's message to the world is wrong, then you have just finished the church (institution). What is the English speaking world meant to believe again. You are putting a dent on everything in English that has ever come out of the Vatican, including the bible. Watch your lies, they can cause a great harm.

B. I don't need any link modifying the Pope's words just as you guys accused the circular papers. The Vatican news has ever been the authentic source. If anyone is misled, the Vatican should be held responsible. So don't threaten me. You do not love the church more than I do.

C. Now see the new defence 'Vatican secretary'. That translation corroborated hundreds of such released on same day together with those from catholic conservative and liberal websites.
The world do not know any secretary but the Vatican. You are reducing the church to an institution of incompetence.

D. Go and read the history of USA and their founding fathers.

E. The offence can only be diminished if the atheist doesn't outrightly reject God. But Pope Francis wrote to a renowned professed atheist who knows the church and her teachings but decided to promote completely contradicting teachings about existence of God, and the Pope assured him he was saved if he follows his conscience to do good. Haba!

F. You will soon understand something about this shepherd stuff. When you see the cardinals take action in the future, you will know which is the schismatic church or true catholic church. You will be left with a choice whether to follow errors or truth.


**** Pope Francis said atheist are saved if they do good. In another letter he said atheist are saved if they follow their conscience.

The above is different from the CCC which says (some) atheists can be saved depending on the circumstance. Note the difference. The Pope is telling them to just do good and they are saved. What is the definition of good? In accordance to the atheist conscience. I guess like sponsoring abortion and sharing free contraceptives.

A. Hahahaha, Alarmist! pretend you do not know that people go to read the Vulgate and Greek versions of the scripture, when disputes arise from translations. What two translations always remain the same, but the core of the message should be interpreted as same. That's what I have done for you, find an independent Italian or Spanish speaker(even non-catholic), compare the meaning/understanding from the passage, till then bro, hold your peace; for you speak in Ignorance.

B. Other language translations are from the same source too, that's why broad discussion fora are available, to remove all doubt in such situations. Once there is doubt, you cannot convict. You are already blinded by your belief in certain "visionaries", wolf, wolf, wolf is now your cry.

C. Blatant lie. Tell me another translation that had such problem, tell me. This reminds me of St. Paul, "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction". 2Pet3:16. When you become perplexed, seek more knowledge before judgement. You need to remind me of when the Vatican radio became the official source of correspondence between the pope and the world.

D. Hahaha, why not rather educate yourself on the history of Nigeria, you may want to start with the Igbos, they may even be closer to the term "God's people".

E. If he allows his conscience to do good.... Did you see that? Do you think a man is capable of doing "spiritual good" without it coming from the Holy Spirit? You really need to read some early fathers (which the Pope has read) and get knowledge. The Ignorant does not stand in Judgement of the learned.

F. Do not worry, I am watching, It is either he is the shepherd or the enemy; not the two, like you propose.


Mudslinging is not what I am here for, You keep bringing in new topics while exposing your Ignorance. Take a look at this reflection, "When I was young, I thought perhaps that I was doing some good; and now when I am old, I see that I do not have any good deed." Did not our Lord say: "No one is good but One, that is God" (Matthew 19:17). Therefore, if only the one God is good and the source of all good, how can a good deed be done that is not from God? And, how can someone who does a good deed ascribe it to himself and not to God"?. It is the duty of everyone to do good, you believe in what I preach or not, do good anyway.

italo: @ Syncan, the man has made up his mind about Pope Francis...

...only, he seems incapable of saying what the Pope's agenda is.

Pope Francis will never please Elampiro. That is apparent.

Bros, I see that...I see that. It pains me. Mater Ecclesiae, ora pro nobis

elampiro: A. So are you saying the Vatican radio translation of the Pope's comments contains errors? Please clarify.

B. I don't understand Spanish, and how many nairalanders undersand Spanish that you decided to give us a Spanish version? How can I read a language I don't understand? Stop trying to confuse us with Spanish.

C. Why did you have to give us a Spanish version of a comment that the Vatican clearly gave us in English. So are yu saying the Vatican is misleading the entire English speaking world? If as you claim, the Vatican has mislead the English speaking world, then where is the perfection of the church?

You can see how Pope Francis is clearly causing confusion.

D. USA and Israel are inseparable. History shows tells a lot about them. God is also revealing today what special love He has for USA, and the enemy plan to ruin it just as the enemy wants to ruin the Catholic church.

E. Let me ask you another simple question. What is the teaching of the church regarding atheist going to heaven or hell?

F. When the 'shepherd' is out to cause confusion you will see the outcome. You are going to see the Cardinals reaction soon to all these.

A. Having noticed the difference in other languages, and knowing the scripture passage he was talking on, I can without doubt tell you, that the English translation of the Pope's homily, did not come out correctly.

B. I gave you link, where it was explained by those who read it in other languages, If you fail to enlighten yourself but chose the destructive way of slander, na you know.

C. Perfection of the church? In translations by Vatican secretaries? Are you high on something or what. Does infallibility cover translations and typographical errors too? The message was translated in numerous languages, I trusted the shepherd not to teach so obvious an error, so i went for clarifications and found out that it was due to translations. You searched his homily for errors; and when the evil one showed you a mirage, you went to town shouting "I have found the devils advocate".

D. I wonder where you are getting all these from, so God loves Portugal, France or Nigeria less than USA? Israel is Israel, USA is USA.

E. The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains that "Since it rejects or denies the existence of God, atheism is a sin against the virtue of religion but the imputability of the offense can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances" (CCC#2125).
It will interest you to know that the church believes that God is capable of saving whosoever he wills. The "good thief" was promised paradise, he was not a believer, he was simply the "good thief", allow God decide to what end the "good atheist" comes to. Let him do good anyway.

F.The Shepherd does not cause confusion, it is the enemy that does that. Make up your mind who Pope Francis is, "the shepherd or the enemy" and stop confusing yourself. Pray Pray Pray, says the nuestra senhora de fatima

elampiro: Vaican Radio;




Home > Church >  2013-06-15 12:57:19 






Pope: The Christian life proclaims the road to reconcilation with God





Vatican Radio) Christian life is not a spa therapy "to be at peace until Heaven," but it calls us to go out into the world to proclaim that Jesus "became the sinner" to reconcile men with the Father. These were Pope Francis’ words during his homily at Mass Saturday at the Casa Santa Martha.

The Christian life is not staying in a corner to carve a road which takes you into heaven, but it's a dynamic that encourages one to stay "on the road" to proclaim that Christ has reconciled us to God, by becoming sin for us. In his usual profound and direct way, Pope Francis focuses on a passage from the Letter to the Corinthians, from today's liturgy, in which St. Paul very insistent, almost "in a hurry", uses the term "reconciliation"five times.

"What is reconciliation? Taking one from this side, taking another one for that side and uniting them: no, that’s part of it but it's not it ... True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us. "

It is the beauty and the "scandal" of the redemption brought by Jesus and it is also the "mystery, says Pope Francis, from which Paul draws" zeal "that spurs him to" move forward " telling everyone" something so wonderful "the love of a God" who gave up his Son to death for me. " Yet, explains Pope Francis, there is a risk of "never arriving at this truth" in the moment when "we 'devalue a little the Christian life", reducing it to a list of things to observe and thus losing the ardor, the force of the '"love that is inside" of it:

"But philosophers say that peace is a certain ordered tranquility: everything is tidy and quiet ... That is not the Christian peace! Christian peace is an uneasy peace, not a quiet peace: it is an uneasy peace, which goes on to carry this message of reconciliation. The Christian Peace pushes us to move forward. This is the beginning, the root of apostolic zeal. Apostolic zeal is not to go forward to persuade and make statistics: this year Christians in this country have grown, in this movement ... Statistics are good, they help, but that is not what God wants from us ,is to persuade... What the Lord wants from us is to announce this reconciliation, which is his own core message . "

Concluding his homily the Pope recalls the inner anxiety of Paul. Pope Francis underlines that which defines the "pillar" of Christian life, namely, that "Christ became sin for me! And my sins are there in his body, in his soul! This - says the Pope - it's crazy, but it's beautiful, it's true! This is the scandal of the Cross! "

"We ask the Lord to give us this concern to proclaim Jesus, to give us a bit of 'that Christian wisdom that was born from His pierced side of love. Just a little to convince us that the Christian life is not a spa therapy: to be at peace until Heaven ... No, the Christian life is the road in life with this concern of Paul. The love of Christ urges us on, it pushes us on, with this emotion that one feels when one sees that God loves us. We ask this grace. " Listen to Lydia O'Kane's report

http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/06/15/pope:_the_christian_life_proclaims_the_road_to_reconcilation_with_god/en1-701813

Just take a look at the bolded, it clearly states "Pope Francis focuses on a passage from the Letter to the Corinthians". Praise God! I never saw that before referring you to 2Cor 5:21. Now I see that it is clearly stated in your own post that he was talking scriptures, Alleluia!

elampiro: Keep on defending deceits and anti-bible new age teachings.

The following clearly exposed you.

(A) You deny the Vatican English translation of the Popes. Words.

(B) You produce another version interpreted by a non authority of the church. So tell me, for Popes statements, where should the faithful go for authenticity? Circular newspaper or a blg or commentaries or the Vatican media? Let us know.

(C) The Pope has a whole 8 lines paragraph where he called Jesus a sinner, but you hid 7 and a half lines and only produce a twisted phrase.

(D) USA is like old Israel, the 'Jews people of God'. Ther nations may be wayward in their laws on morals, USA should preserve theirs. Same with the Catholic church from other churches. Destroy these two institutions with deceits, we have the Great Tribulation before us.

Finally, schism can't be avoided at this time. There will be abomination of desolation in the holy place and even the elect will be deceived. When the schism comes from the top, I will know whether you will keep defending lies and deceits.

A. Yes even the bible translation is not free of errors, that's why I go a little further.

B. I produced the official spanish translation of the Popes word. You did right by reading the English version, but when you get confused, seek for enlightenment with an open mind, don't read seeking to find faults. What is the essence of those who read in other languges understanding him (as shown in my link) and you don't, its not his fault then.

C. I produced the entire article, but spambot hid it due to the volume of foreign laguage I guess, you may check out a hidden post earlier.

D. USA is just a world power( which several others had been), There is only one "Jews", their nation is Isreal.

Finally. Do not worry about me, my faith in God gives no room for panic. "...though I pass through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil..." The shepherd will never abandon his flock. Schism is against the shepherd not from the shepherd. It is a grave error to schism.

elampiro: 1. I will not engage in endless argument with you. Hope to see you again soon in the future when the Pope makes anti-scripture remark again.

2. If you say there is no cause for worry, you are only being over defending him. When the general public can sense danger and you are painting a picture of all is well, I guess you are already been misled by the diluted teachings going on. This diluted teachings which the CCC supported since Vatican II is what led to the widespread homosexual activities and abuse among the clergy. All in the act of mercy for the sinner, a lot of toxic has been mixed with the good Jesus handed over to us. Now look at the embarrassment to the Church.

3. I don't need any body's opinion or defence on what I saw clearly written in black and white on the Vatican website. The Pope's words should stand on their own, they don't require any one to redefine them. The Pope's words in the Vatican website are straight and direct. You and his defenders should stop twisting the words or trying to help him to be Pope.

...................................................................................
Directly from the Vatican Radio:


"What is reconciliation? Taking one from this side, taking another one for that side and uniting them: no, that’s part of it but it's not it ... True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us. "


http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/06/15/pope:_the_christian_life_proclaims_the_road_to_reconcilation_with_god/en1-701813
...........................................................................................................................

4. When Obama came in the very first time, I told people that he won't be good because the prophecies clearly told that he was coming to work against christian morals, people arguing with me then said he was the 'messiah'. Despite his early signs people felt he knew what he was doing. Now, fast forward 5 years after, Obama has single handledly boosted homosexuality, abortion, contraceptives (even in the high school), bestiality in the military, etc. He has got everything against christian teachings legalized. This was done all in the name of protecting human right (in another language, mercy). Now it is against the law in many places to refuse to cover the weddings of gays as a photographer or wedding planner.

Every twisting of the truth or watering it down should be uprooted from the start else it becomes too late. How naive people have become. "When the Son of Man returns, will He find faith on earth?" luke 18:8.

1. I hope to continue to see you, it matters not if the topic was a "supposed" gaffe of the Pope, a confirmation from God, or an issue of enlightenment or clarification....or EPL

2. Just take another look at the bolded above in your speech, and see how close you are moving to schism. Now the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), master minded by Pope John Paul II (who even you acclaimed earlier) is now in support of "Diluted teachings"? Just because I showed you that Pope Francis was not contradicting it. Please get your facts straight, when did those abuse scandals by some priests commence? Do not tie it to Vatican II please. I am one who believe that there are quite a number of rooms for abuse in Vatican II, but the fact that people abuse fashion does not make styling a bad Idea. People under Vatican II are going on to live saintly lives, it is God's grace that keeps them so, this grace is available to them even after Vatican II. Just try and be one of such.

3. When you see something you do not understand, seek a wider clarification. Jumping straight into condemnation is terrible, We see same problem with people who read the bible in English and interprets it on their own understanding. Sometimes, you need to go back to the original Language to draw proper inference. It is a known facts that words could lose their meaning during translations. The proper translation could go thus "This is yours,and I make you become sin again". compare to 2 cor 5:21 "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin". He was talking scripture!

4. I do not like Obama with respect to morals, but democrats have always been that way. However,please when did Obama become the President of America and how did he influence these nations below?

"Denmark was the first state to recognize a legal relationship for same-sex couples, establishing "registered partnerships" very much like marriage in 1989. In 2001, the Netherlands became the first nation in the world to grant same-sex marriages. Same-sex marriages are also granted and mutually recognized by Belgium (2003), Spain (2005), Canada (2005), South Africa (2006), Norway (2009), Sweden (2009), Portugal (2010), Iceland (2010), Argentina (2010), Denmark (2012), Brazil (2013), France (2013), Uruguay (2013) and New Zealand (2013)".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage

It is you who twist and turn at every angle, recognizing Pope Francis as the shepherd and yet accusing him of working for the devil. Claiming that Pope John Paul II was flawless, yet calling the CCC he masterminded; a support document for watered down teaching. Claiming to stand by scriptures yet when it comes from the mouth of the Pope; it becomes blasphemy. "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it". Matt 16:18

Despite all that the alarmists say,this is what wikipedia says of the Pope.

"Pope Francis has affirmed Catholic teachings on sexual morality. He said that while homosexual acts were sinful, the homosexual orientation was not. He favours a wider active role for women in the Church, but believes the ordination of women into the Catholic priesthood is impossible. In addition, Pope Francis said that it was necessary to listen to young people and admired their non-conformism. In general, he is seen as advocating a more merciful attitude than his predecessor".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis

Viva Papa!

elampiro: 1. CNN clearly quoted their sources which are friends and workers of Pope Francis. Did you expect him to have openly said he was in support of homosexuality? Don't be naive.

2. He completed what Benedict started so that he would been seen to be the same conservative Pope as Benedict. Even Judas did some great good works.

3. If you were not trying to mislead us why should you give us Spanish version of a speech given in Italy whereas the maker of the speech have produced it in English and other languages. I don't understand Spanish, so I won't know when you tell lies in it.

4. He contradicted the bible and the CCC? Did the bible and the CCC say we should speak or preach less of homosexuality?

5. I have told you, the future will soon throw up a lot of things. I hope you won't follow and defend lies or anti-gospel? I am not going to continue this endless argument with you because I know the future will soon speak for itself and we will meet again to discuss this things. The Catholic church as you know it will climb its Calvary and a good number will follow errors. Just watchout! The true Catholicism will have to go underground. It will be suppressed. I hope you will not be defending new age teachings just because you feel you have an obligation to defend the church?

1. CNN said it could not be verified, meaning that even they do not hold them in much credulity... But you, it became a canon for you. What the grapevine said he supports is now authentic to you, and what he supports openly is fake for you. I wonder the one you think the church is interested in, his secret thoughts or public actions.

2. What an impression you have of the one you call the shepherd...quite unfortunate, he is both the shepherd and the devils advocate for you.

3. I made sure i submitted the link to the poster who made that observation and his explanations. It wasn't mine and I referred you to where I got it from.... yet you accuse me of trying to mislead

4. Pope Francis has preached so much on homosexual acts, condemning it and fighting against it, even to risking his life. He is now the leader of the church, the mission giving to the church is not to go into the world and preach against homosexual, no, it is still "go into the world and spread the good news". Each time he is interviewed, it is homosexual this or homosexual that, for goodness sake, the shepherd have more than 1.8billion heterosexuals he needs to lead and numerous heterosexuals he needs to preach the good news to. Stop distracting him!

5. I am fully aware of all these prophecies, and I am also close to my scriptures. I am watching the times, but I will not cry wolf when there is none, nor accuse the shepherd of being the devil's advocate. I have confidence in the Power of Christ to watch over his flock, I will not castigate his Vicar for something that may be as a result of my ignorance. I hope you will not be too blinded to acknowledge the works of God through his vicar.

elampiro: Directly from the Vatican Radio:


"What is reconciliation? Taking one from this side, taking another one for that side and uniting them: no, that’s part of it but it's not it ... True reconciliation means that God in Christ took on our sins and He became the sinner for us. When we go to confession, for example, it isn’t that we say our sin and God forgives us. No, not that! We look for Jesus Christ and say: 'This is your sin, and I will sin again'. And Jesus likes that, because it was his mission: to become the sinner for us, to liberate us. "


http://en.radiovaticana.va/news/2013/06/15/pope:_the_christian_life_proclaims_the_road_to_reconcilation_with_god/en1-701813


Now Italo, tell me if the above is different from what I have been writing? You decided to listen to lies defending the Pope. Spanish ko Italo nil

I publish no lies. The pope did not give the homily in English and cannot be held responsible for faulty translations. My link in Spanish is also from Radio Vaticana:
http://www.news.va/es/news/el-cristiano-no-piensa-en-su-paz-anuncia-la-de-cri

elampiro: Hope you know there is a difference in condemning the sinner and condemning the sin?

I know exactly what I have been saying. It is you who am worried about.

First you needed me to show you that you've been quoting a blogger, when I did, you said it wasn't your first evidence and that I jumped in half way.

Secondly, you accused the Pope of not talking against the evil act, then I showed you quotes from your link where he condemned it and as well fought the government. You'll rather believe gossips from some individuals.

Thirdly, You called his statement blasphemy, when I showed you it was scriptural;you claimed wrong interpretation of the passage...by the Jesuit Pope.

Fourthly, You came out shouting the Vatican has disclaimed him; while using a statement you attested to Cardinal Burke, now I have shown you again that the Cardinal never made such a statement.

I can go on and on, but I'll let things be here, Please pray, pray, pray, I fear for you my friend.

elampiro: I have not said he is not currently the shepherd. It is Italo who has been putting words in my mouth that I called Pope Francis an agent of satan. Scan through my writing whether you will see any of such statement. From the start I was focused on the Pope statements. I think I have the liberty to analyze these statements


I only copied everything thinking it was all from the Cardinal. I didn't take note that was a conclusion remark. Thanks for calling my attention to that.

You have not said he is not the shepherd? Good grief! So we should listen to the shepherd or not? I thought Benedict was the shepherd for you when you cast doubt on his election, you make me laugh.


Exactly what i have been hammering on, that you do not be blinded by doubts. Now you see that one of the pillars of your argument in this thread is not from the authentic source you thought it was. And what a damaging slander it was.

elampiro: 2. Your number 2 above. This is not a matter of word against word. Why did the Argertina church or the bishops not counter deny the newspaper publication? Why did any Vatican official not clear the alleged Pope's remarks?

You still are missing some points about the homosexual remark. Did the CCC said we should not preach against homosexuality? How funny to hide under mercy to twist things. Mercy for the sinner, but preach to him/her.

That excommunication stuff was the handiwork of Benedict. Francis only used it as part of his weapon.

3. The excommunication was a work done under Benedict. The process of excommunication is a long one.

4. The Corth verse you quoted clearly stated that Jesus is One (He) without sin and had taken away the sins of the world by his death. But Pope Francis said we don't have to seek forgiveness when we go to confession. He said we should say ''Jesus here are your sins.... And we will sin again'' he continued that we are not asking for forgiveness because we are handing Jesus' sins back to Him. My friend this is blaspheme.

Compare the Pope's comment with what is in Corithians and you will notice the twist.

Bible said Jesus had no sin. Pope said we should not seek forgiveness of our sins because they are Jesus' sins. And we must state we will sin again. No remorse.

5. The scripture has no two meanings on sexual sins. It is clear. The teachings of the church is very clear too, but Pope Francis has refused to affirm the teachings of the church on sexual sins, instead he is watering it down.

6. In Pope John II 25 years reign only one thing you were able to bring out- he entered a mosque. And he did that just to help negotiate for tolerance for all chrisians in muslim world. He did not tell the atheist they are okay without Jesus. He was against sexual immorality. Has Pope Francis worked even for 1 years? Look at the controversies in just 6 months.

7. Vatican II was a preparatory ground for some of the errors we see today. This is another topic altogether. The smoke of satan has entered the church for some years now and it has been growing.

2. CNN said they could not verify what you claimed(and it is there in your link),what is the need refuting what is not there in the first place?

It is you who is getting things wrong. The CCC said the cause is yet unknown, how do you preach against a condition. What you preach against is the act, that's why he fought against the legalization of same sex marriage. He is doing the exact same thing you profess but do not practice.

3. I feel like having a good laugh here. He signed the excommunication of the priest, the priest is feeling bad against him, now you're claiming it is Benedict's hand work...so he completes what Benedict started and you still accuse him of working for the evil one. Which one the poor man go do to please you na?

4. The scripture i quoted is clear on its content, even if you feel odd quoting it correctly, it is still scripture. I have shown you the Spanish translation of his homily, which was given in Italia and not English, It was from the radio Vaticana too :

http://www.news.va/es/news/el-cristiano-no-piensa-en-su-paz-anuncia-la-de-cri

If those the Pope talked to understood it the way you do, you think it wont get more knocks than just your NL campaign? His message is clear, It is rare and deep theology and it is rooted in scriptures. The English translation is flawed and does not correspond to the others.

5. Pure lie. You have since refused to show me how he contradicted the CCC

6. I am not here to castigate any Pope just like you, I only brought it out to refute your claim that there was no perceived change of approach
Pope Francis has excommunicated a priest for supporting gay marriage, Pope Francis led the campaign against legalization of same sex marriage in Argentina, Pope Francis condemned gay lobbyists. Pope Francis calls on homosexuals to seek the Lord. He hates the Sin but Loves the Sinner. He came in the midst of controversies, the church was actually not having a good time, leading to the resignation of Benedict, He has borne the controversies in his shoulder, he was prepared for it.

7. Stay there and be castigating what you have no control over while people are making heaven. Mother Teresa, Pope JP II etc are Post Vatican II saints in the making. Continue seeing satan in everything.

elampiro: So analyzing the Pope's comment is now a slander? If the Pope had not made unguided statements the media would be still. We were already used to them from time immemorial how they mock the Catholic church as too conservative, etc. It was better for the church. The church should be church and not circular.

The church should preach what the spirit has taught. Same words, new enlightenment. Before now, I never knew the CCC was even that considerate on homosexuality. Pope Francis has led me to read it, now I know better. Peter has taught me, Praise the Lord!

elampiro: If for instance Pope Francis comes tomorrow now and make major changes to the teachings of the church which contradicts the gospel of Jesus Christ, would you wait for Pope Benedict to say it before you realize what is happening?
...............................................................

Cardinal Raymond Burke did not have to wait for Benedict to react as quoted below.

" It’s a nonsense for people to say that Catholics have focused too much on the great moral evils of our time such as abortion and gay marriage and sex, when in fact as a result of the collapse of catechesis since Vatican II, the majority of Catholics have been reduced to silence. In the face of the political push to enshrine gay marriage and the normalisation of deviancy, and the Silent Holocause of 1.7 billion babies killed through abortion since the 1970′s Catholics must shout from the roof tops and take to the streets."
http://protectthepope.com/?p=8434

Till he makes that major change ( which is obviously against faith and moral), he continues to be the shepherd.

Cardinal Burke did not make that statement, the writer of the article, who share the same opinion as you, wrote that. The quotation mark, is yours.

@ Elampiro,

1. That's left for you

2. (a) somebody say is always "your word against mine". You must have seen this as well "Alejandro Russo, the rector of the Metropolitan Cathedral in Buenos Aires, said it was unlikely the pope had ever expressed such a view, even in private".

(b) His position is based on the CCC, the church has moderates in the application of their teachings, these are theological positions

(C)His suggestions in the company of fellow bishops is what you question? Do i need to remind you that the church has never been such that everybody has same opinion, You may want to read Acts 15 again. Even the saints disputed about doctrines but submit in humility when the church declares a stand. His stand is based on how far he wishes to stretch the church teaching on homosexuality albeit "They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition".CCC. Check out his recent action in the link below

Read more: http://world.time.com/2013/09/25/pope-francis-excommunicates-priest-who-supports-womens-ordination-and-gays/#ixzz2gB0wmPAR


Except you do not even understand the theology of salvation by grace, that Spanish version is all you need. You just said its worse, means you are turning from the truth to clutching on straw.


2. You call 2cor 5:21 a blasphemy? "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God". I really fear for you my friend.



3. You accuse the pope of not preaching against it...., He fought his government to a standstill on the Issue for goodness sake, i do not know who you are listening to. Now he has excommunicated a priest for it. while you are there shouting blasphemy for what you do not understand. Just wikipedia him and learn.

4. Scripture can be twisted or misused you say? hahahaha, Italo did you here that? Elampiro's interpretation of scripture is now the guide. The Vatican did not contradict him, rather the Vatican spokesman reaffirmed the stand of the church, to the media and you, who are bent on misrepresenting him. The quote at the end, I have said it before, is not from Cardinal Burke.

5. Vatican II and Vatican I are different approaches to same subject. Approaches change based on subsisting challenges. people left the church after Vatican II, claiming the church has been taken over by the devil, today even you say JPII was saintly...and he practiced vatican II. It is your responsibility to pray, we have those Christ have put at the head, of whom he will demand accountability, do not delve into unfamiliar territory claiming to be a master and making conclusions based on some sort of ignorance. JPII went to the mosque to pray, some earlier Popes would never have done that, lets not compare Popes here.
We ought to pray more in these times, for the "enemy cometh at night to sow weeds in the garden".

elampiro: 1. You said the sheep should not be scattered before the time. This is exactly why I have so far refrained from publishing certain things that should have surprised you. Should I do that, I trust nairalanders and some Nigerians who are spiritually immature. But I have reserve some core evidence for the future.

2. I have known that locution sight for ever. I reserve my comment. I have read it for years, including John Leary the most popular catholic prophet and others.

3. The blogger you quoted is the least of the things I have submitted about reactions to the Pope's comment. You obviously jumped into the argument half way. Had you followed the argument from the other thread where Pope Francis said atheist are saved by their conscience, you should have seen the trail of this argument and the references and links I have earlier provided.

4. Hold, let me send you some links.

I shall leave 1 and 2 without a comment.

3. I read from the beginning of a thread; I comment on it, you make a submission on the thread; I react to it, now you accuse me to have "jumped into the argument halfway" because you made some posts in another (mutually exclusive) thread which you never referred to. I de bow for you o

4. I read your link and reverted as seen above.

Ah,@ Elampiro I thought you had something else to say, meanwhile I saw these from your link:

1. (a) An activist and a pastor say the pope told them he supported civil unions in Argentina - somebody said.... untrusted evidence

(b) Reports say the pope also pushed bishops to support the idea at a 2010 meeting - "CNN could not independently confirm the details of the Argentine bishops' meeting,..." (from your link)

(c) As archbishop of Buenos Aires, the pope was a vocal opponent to same-sex marriage - By their fruits ye shall know them

(d) The pope once called same-sex marriage "a destructive attack on God's plan" - Now you accuse him of propagating it


2. Take a look at this:

"I have read the Spanish version,and Italian.

I do not mean to offend by posting in Spanish,but it says very clearly that "This is yours,and I make you become sin again. And he likes that,because it has been his mission,become sin for us,to free us"


“Pero ¿qué es la reconciliación? Tomar a uno de esta parte, tomar a otro y hacer que estén unidos: no, esta es una parte pero no es... La verdadera reconciliación es que Dios, en Cristo, ha tomado nuestros pecados y Él se ha hecho pecado por nosotros. Y cando vamos a confesarnos, por ejemplo, no es que decimos el pecado y Dios nos perdona. No, ¡no es esto! Nosotros encontramos a Jesucristo y le decimos: ‘Esto es tuyo y yo te hago pecado otra vez. Y a Él le gusta eso, porque ha sido su misión: hacerse pecado por nosotros, para liberarnos.
Es la belleza y el “escándalo” de la redención que Jesús llevó a cabo dijo Francisco:"


In the Italian version,the phrase in question is even between inverted commas.
Maybe "make you become sin " can even be translated as "make you sin again" being sin here not a verb but a noun. Hope it clarifies

If anyone can read any of these languages,you will notice the difference.
Peace".

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=802790
http://www.news.va/es/news/el-cristi...ncia-la-de-cri

3. I have published for you a copy of the CCC on homosexuality, you and those confused are yet to tell me how the Pope's statement
contradicts it.

4. The Pope quoted scripture LK 9:50, Mk 9:40, Tell me the scripture is not correct. It doesn't matter what you infer or suggest it insinuates, He quoted scripture to support himself. Do good anyway and let the Holy spirit do His part...this is the message of the Pope. Do not underestimate the power of God to save whoever he so wishes.

5. Read carefully my submissions above and desist from undue alarm, rather pray more in these times, for the "enemy cometh at night to sow weeds in the garden".

elampiro: 1. Can you repost where I quoted a blogger? I can't see where I did.

2. Which visionary are you following? You also have to be careful not to swallow errors which are starting already. Go back to the prophecy of St Francis of Asisi, Lasalete, Garabadal, Fr Gobbi, etc and you will know that there will be a time of aposacy in the Vatican,

3. Pope Francis as cardinal Bergoglio was in support of Gay union in Argentina. Pope Francis said when our sins are not committed by us but they are Jesus' sin. He is also trying to shut the mouth of priests from frequently speaking against homosexuality, abortion etc.

4. In several messages given to a certain visionary between 2011 and 2012, it was clearly stated that Pope Benedict would not die on the throne but would be plotted against in an underground move to resign. A lot were said and at that time I never thought could be possible. And at that time too, we were told the next Pope will be. seen to be very humble (false humility) cunning and greatly loved but he will not be from God. We were also told thayt he would be loved greatly by the circular world and seen to be a living saint. But he will be giving sign f what he intends to do until the time becomes ripe, then he will make major changes that will rock the church to it foundation. Very many will go with him in his new age teachings while the true catholics will retain the traditional teachings of the church.

I was shocked when Benedict announced his resignation, and the prophecy was fulfilled. When Pope Francis came in, the messages told us again how he will be working to undermine so many traditions which will insult God but many will be blind to these things for now.

One of those early signs he gave which many were blind to was the fact he ran away from the Vatican to wash the legs of men, women and people of other faith in a prison instead of legs of his apostles 'the priests'. He was already by that wicked gesture establishing the all inclusive church. He also kissed their legs as a sign of the new age religion that will be coming where humanism (worship of man, nature and things) will be taught instead of only venerating the cross as a sign of allegiance and worship of the crucified Lord. He refuses to sit on the throne (the chair of Peter) but instead in an excuse for humility, he sits on a white chair which some observant have said is in front of the Eucharist . I have not been able to verify where exactly that white chair is positioned whether truly in front of the Eucharist.
I just want to stop here. But consider this:
When we go to confession we say, ''bless me father for I have sinned, I attended confession last on.....these are my sins ........ For these sins and any other I cannot remember, I beg for forgiveness and penance. ''

But Pope Francis said Jesus has become the sinner for us such that when we go to confession it is not that we ask for forgiveness but we are only handling Jesus' sins back to Him. So we say in confession ''Jesus here are your sins... And I will sin again''

I stop here for now.

1. Here is your quote, it is from a blogger, Mundabor.

elampiro: @Italo, the writer of the article below has been a renowned defender of Pope Francis in several foreign religion platform. Now surprisingly, look at what he has written:

............................


Mundabor http://mundabor./2013/09/24/absurd-arguments/

2.Yes there will be a time of apostasy, but you should not cry wolf when there is none, lest you scatter the sheep.

3 Please be careful about your accusations, see below:

"When Bergoglio celebrated Mass at the Cathedral for the 2004 First National Government holiday, President Néstor Kirchner attended and heard Bergoglio request more political dialogue, reject intolerance, and criticize exhibitionism and strident announcements. Kirchner celebrated the national day elsewhere the following year and the Mass in the Cathedral was suspended.Kirchner considered Bergoglio as a political rival to the day he died in October 2010. Bergoglio's relations with Kirchner's widow and successor, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, have been similarly tense. In 2008, Bergoglio called for national reconciliation during disturbances in the country's agricultural regions, which the government interpreted as a support for anti-government demonstrators.The campaign to enact same-sex marriage legislation was a particularly tense period in their relations.

"In 2006, Bergoglio publicly opposed an attempt by the Argentine government to legalize some cases of abortion. In 2007, after the government intervened to allow an abortion for a mentally handicapped woman who had been raped, Bergoglio said that "in Argentina we have the death penalty. A child conceived by the rape of a mentally ill or retarded woman can be condemned to death."

"Pope Francis has affirmed Catholic teachings on sexual morality. He said that while homosexual acts were sinful, the homosexual orientation was not".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis

I have shown you the teaching of the catholic church from the CCC, you may tell me how Pope Francis contradicts it.

4. Monsignor Esseff was a spiritual director to Mother Teresa of Calcutta, he is the spiritual director to a supposed visionary now, her message contradicts that of your unknown "internet" visionary. you may want to check that out too. http://www.locutions.org/. I must tell you that I do not hold such prophecies as "must happen"...since Jonah's experience.


He washed the feet of lay men and women...bla bla bla, when Jesus commanded the apostles to serve, was it to their priests or to all? The washing of feet is just symbolic and his actions is simply a broader depicting of the command, he went a notch further. He kissed their feet... for Gods sake, did you read anything about St. Francis of Assisi at all? You really should get your fact straight before indulging in attacking such esteem an office holder. The chair of St.Peter...You are not even sure of what you're saying.

Please tell me where Pope Francis made the above as claimed by you, until then, We ought to pray more in these times, for the "enemy cometh at night to sow weeds in the garden".

elampiro: 1. Yet some of these prophecies were approved by the church.

2. Were you there when those Popes resigned? Do you know under what circumstances they resigned? Do you know the true story? Are you are some resigned because there were two people laying claim to the throne?

1.There is no prophecy approved by the church that supports your argument in any way.

2. So it is now our presence during the resignation that authenticates the event right? What is the story of Pope Benedict's Resignation apart from what He himself said. You want to insinuate that the shepherd abandoned his flock to the wolves, no bro, not at all. He left the drivers seat for someone who is "better prepared for the times", by his God, to lead the flock.

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.


The above is the teaching of the catholic church which even the pope is bound to. You may want to tell me where he violated it. More so, the pope condemns gay lobbyists which is same with what Cardinal Burke was saying. As per the last paragraph you wanted us to take note of, that does not seem to be the words of the Cardinal but an input of the writer. the words of the cardinal are in quotation marks, do take note of that please. We ought to pray more in these times, for the "enemy cometh at night to so weeds in the garden".

elampiro: 1. You aren't telling me anything new. I know how the non catholics have been ridiculing the church. But my argument is from a different angle.

2. Italo's question is fully understood by me. Should I answer it sincerely, there will be an irrecoverable earthquake. I wanted the future to speak for itself, but gradually you guys are pushing me.

3. Which blogger did I quote. I haven't quoted any blogger. I only posted comments from Vatican officials and Pope Benedict from reputable international news media.

3. The difference between Pope Benedict's election and that of Pope Francis is that in the former, a death of a Pope gave birth to another. Marian and Jesus end time messages to catholic seers in the last 100 years till now have told us that this would happen. Even now the current messages correctly stated exactly what is happening now. I have told you guys that I want to keep this low for now.

1. Thats why you need better and more sound fact than the opinion of a blogger out of 2billion catholics

2. You do not sow a seed of doubt and expect to be left alone, if not to guide others aright, it is still a corporal work of mercy to enlighten the ignorance

3.Mundabor that you quoted is a blogger

4. It matters not if there was a death or not, the seat could be vacant by abdication, even Pope JP 11 was expected to resign, It is not unheard of. The last time it happened before Benedict xv1, the elected Pope was authentic, so why not Pope Francis. Which Current messages? The one i am following now says exactly opposite to what you're saying, be careful what you believe.

@ Elampiro, I am appalled that you'd bring in a blogger's write up to defend your position against the Pope. As a child of the church, it will be enough disturbances to harbour such a thought, as to propel you towards better proof and more insightful and balanced judgement on the situation. Could you supply me with where your writer was defending the Pope as you claimed, or have you not noticed his obvious dislike for Jesuits in his earlier posts? We need to be very careful when we actually delve into issues that have far reaching implications such as questioning the ability of Jesus to protect his Church, or making a subtle mockery of a Pope emeritus. An example is the question Italo has been asking you, that question is deep; and it is based on your assertion that it arose. You as a catholic must have heard ridiculous condemnations against the catholic faith, which is born out of partial or complete ignorance, you must have had a good laugh at such times or pity the proponent. Yet it doesn't mean the unfortunate individual is not convinced of his being on the right...just like you. What that blogger did was to ridicule every avenue of defense and not to disprove it. It's such a clear example of the saying, “for he that does not believe; no explanation is possible...". His predecessor resigned voluntarily just like...at least an earlier Pope, He was elected just like other Popes, and he is authentic, for his election has violated no rule. In the church will always be the "Pharisees (keepers of the letters of the law), the sinners (breakers of the law) and the saints (fulfilling the law by their life). The good shepherd has a duty to lead all gently unto the right path, just like Christ did. Do read again the CCC on homosexuality. We ought to pray more in these times, for the "enemy cometh at night to so weeds in the garden".

damerry: Are you married to a one-time promiscuous lady?

Not at all dearest one, Just thinking about Hosea... and how much demons must have been his share according to our friend above.

damerry: @ op. What if a man marries a promiscuous woman and have godly sex with her ( after marriage ) would he contact part of the demons the woman had acquired before he got married to her?

God2man: Yes.

Now i'm gonna faint.

italo: You're welcome and the Lord be with you too.

I'm humbled that the Lord has used me to impart some knowledge on you as he used (and continues to use) other people to enlighten me too.

We are all members of the one body of Christ and we all have various gifts that we can use to edify the Church.

May the Lord continue to use us all to do his work. Amen.

Welcome back bro, all things worketh unto good....It was a retreat I see. You were missed