₦airaland Forum

italo: Isnt it a great family we have?

One that death cannot scatter.

The triumphant pray for the militant/pilgrim; they, in turn, pray for the suffering.

One day, we'll all be together before our God. Amen! Amen!

Yeah, yeah, Amen! Amen!

Sal C: The triumphant church: the saints who has made it to heaven.
The sufering church: the holy souls in purgatory.
The millitant or pilgrim church: we that are still alive thriving to make heaven.

Once again, you just got it right. With Christ as the head, these three; form the body.

Rich4god: Triumphant, Militant and Sufferings.
Hope am right.
I want to know... Who is the first Nigerian...
Cardinal
Priest and
Bishop
Bishop

You are right, but the question wasn't fully answered. I stand by Italo's answer to your question. Hope we are right too.

italo: Dominic Ignatius Cardinal Ekandem was the first Nigerian Cardinal and first West African Bishop. He became a Cardinal in 1976.

Father Paul Emechete was the first Nigerian Priest. He was ordained in 1920.

Thats my take on it too, just do not know about the date on Fr. Paul.

asco15: No any concrete proof to weda mary cn hear all our hail marys. Then i see no need to continue praying to her since i knw dat Jesus is the only way to Heaven. It means dat i cn still make heaven if i hv Jesus and dn't hv mary, just like my elder bro. Paul did.

hahaha, Its you and your conscience now. I gave you scriptural insights, contrary to what you expect, you thought you had an intelligent question no catholic could answer. Now that you have listened to His words, harden not your heart....

Sarassin: The epistle was a clear fabrication, it was supposedly delivered by the apostle Thaddeus, together with a self-portrait by the artist – Jesus (he wiped his face with the canvass), which brought me to respond to the poster. The forgery is almost certainly the work of Eusebius. He claimed to have found them written in Syriac and personally translated them into Greek, I hope that clears matters.

This is exactly why I took you up on this. Eusebius is held in high regards by church historians for his works which gave insights to what happened in the early times. His association with the letter, which was denied canonization, is no different from what others did. I had said earlier that not everyone agreed with every book under scrutiny, as inspired at the time. My worry is that you called such a man "Father of pious forgery" when the only prove you have is that "The forgery is almost certainly the work of Eusebius". Just how fair have you been to him?

Moreso, note that where he spoke of the image of Jesus and the woman with hemorrhage, he was talking about a sculpture that he saw. However there exists other numerous examples of the use of Images in the early church. The catacombs is filled with evidence.

Sarassin: Don't make me laugh !

Here's what the Catholic Encyclopaedia has to say :

"The fact related in the correspondence has long since ceased to be of any historical value. The text is borrowed in two places from that of the Gospel, which of itself is sufficient to disprove the authenticity of the letter. Moreover, the quotations are made not from the Gospels proper, but from the famous concordance of Tatian, compiled in the second century, and known as the "Diatessaron", thus fixing the date of the legend as approximately the middle of the third century."

Just quit whilst you're still ahead.

All you wrote above did not disprove what I stated, nor did I see what could be funny in my post. The ish here is that you accused Eusebius of forgery, and all you have as prove, is that he sees an epistle as true, which was later proclaimed by the church as not. Is there another reason you called him the father of pious forgery?

Sarassin: Desperate ? I think not ! Pray do tell, what is your take on Eusebius and the infamous Jesus Epistle to the King of Edesus ?

"The learned world have been much divided on this subject; but, notwithstanding that the erudite Grabe, with Archbishop Cave, Dr. Parker, and other divines, has strenuously contended for their admission into the canon of Scripture, they are deemed apocryphal". The Rev. Jeremiah Jones observes, that the common people in England have this Epistle in their houses, in many places, fixed in a frame, with the picture of Christ before it; and that they generally, with much honesty and devotion, regard it as the word of God, and the genuine Epistle of Christ.

http://ecmarsh.com/crl/lost_books/epistle_of_jesus.htm

The sentence in bold describes the state of things, it is not canon because the church has not said it is. However we who are present today owe the early church fathers for doing the hard work and canonizing the ones they feel sure. I do not have anything against him if he believes the epistle is canon worthy, as a personal view. Not everybody agreed on all the books.

In continuation today, after i was kindly rescued by Humbledbygrace, from the clutches of antispamBot, for posting the above.

The question is: "The church has three arms in communion with one another, name and explain them"?

Sal C: St Gianna Bretta molla canonized on 16 may 2004 by Pope John Paul II

Nice one Sal C. Saint Gianna Beretta Molla (October 4, 1922 – April 28, 1962) was an Italian pediatrician, wife and mother who is best known for refusing both an abortion and a hysterectomy when she was pregnant with her fourth child, despite knowing that continuing with the pregnancy could result in her death. She was canonized as a saint of the Catholic Church in 2004.

In 1961, Gianna was pregnant once again. During the second month, Gianna developed a fibroma on her uterus. After examination, the doctors gave her three choices: an abortion, a complete hysterectomy, or removal of only the fibroma. The Catholic Church forbids all direct abortion even when the woman's life is in danger, but Catholic teaching would have allowed her to undergo a hysterectomy, which would have resulted in her unborn child's death as an unintended consequence.

"Abortion – that is, the directly intended termination of pregnancy before viability or the directly intended destruction of a viable fetus – is never permitted...Operations, treatments, and medications that have as their direct purpose the cure of a proportionately serious pathological condition of a pregnant woman are permitted when they cannot be safely postponed until the unborn child is viable, even if they will result in the death of the unborn child." – The Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services (ERD) Directive 45

Gianna opted for the removal of the fibroma, wanting to preserve her child's life.

After the operation, complications continued throughout her pregnancy. Gianna was quite clear about her wishes, expressing to her family, "This time it will be a difficult delivery, and they may have to save one or the other -- I want them to save my baby."

On April 21, 1962, Good Friday of that year, Gianna went to the hospital, where her fourth child, Gianna Emanuela, was successfully delivered via Caesarean section.[1] However, Gianna continued to have severe pain, and died of septic peritonitis 7 days after the birth.

They are saints whose lives are closer to that of Christ...she gave her life that another may live. Help us, O lord! pray for us St. Gianna Beretta.

italo: @ Syncan, nice one.

If only we weren't talking to close-minded people.

Thanks bro, we keep working and praying.

For those who think Images were a modern day introduction, with lies from the depth of hell about Seramis and co,and about emperor constantine 306-337AD.Lets see the words of Eusebius, Bishop of Caeaseria in Palestine, born in 260AD and died in 341AD. This Bishop wrote a most insightful knowledge about early Christianity in what he termed "church history". In Church history VII.18, he wrote:

"[b]1. Since I have mentioned this city I do not think it proper to omit an account which is worthy of record for posterity. For they say that the woman with an issue of blood, who, as we learn from the sacred Gospel, received from our Saviour deliverance from her affliction, came from this place, and that her house is shown in the city, and that remarkable memorials of the kindness of the Saviour to her remain there.

2. For there stands upon an elevated stone, by the gates of her house, a brazen image of a woman kneeling, with her hands stretched out, as if she were praying. Opposite this is another upright image of a man, made of the same material, clothed decently in a double cloak, and extending his hand toward the woman. At his feet, beside the statue itself, is a certain strange plant, which climbs up to the hem of the brazen cloak, and is a remedy for all kinds of diseases.

3. They say that this statue is an image of Jesus. It has remained to our day, so that we ourselves also saw it when we were staying in the city.

4. Nor is it strange that those of the Gentiles who, of old, were benefited by our Saviour, should have done such things, since we have learned also that the likenesses of his apostles Paul and Peter, and of Christ himself, are preserved in paintings, the ancients being accustomed, as it is likely, according to a habit of the Gentiles, to pay this kind of honor indiscriminately to those regarded by them as deliverers.[/b]"

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/250107.htm

damerry: Good morning brethrens,
@ sal c. All thanks to God, I'll always remember you in prayer.

Help!!!

Someone wants to know if Mary is omnipresent. I solicit the help of all Catholics on this forum, i don't have a spot-on answer for him so I've decided to invite all of you least i give him a heretic answer. You all invited, please come o

www.nairaland.com/1485580/mary-omnipresent-everywhere-thesame-time

No shaking bros, I already saw Italo there.

forexprophet: THIS IS ERKANKER TEACHING....

Ofcourse, what do I expect from the falseprophet, Scripture is erkankar teaching...

forexprophet: I was much more a catholic than u were. It was in my 3rd year at the Major seminary that my lecturer told me d truth secretly about the origin of the worship of mary in d cath. church, emperor constatine who forced himself to bcome d first pope......(peter was never a pope). how he introduced roman idolatries into the church at rome dat was planted by paul b4 it was taken over by the emperor,the church at jerusalem was not part of all d take over.......later paul had to write them a later in Romans 1:1- the end warning of the idolatry. It was d church at rome that became THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. And becos it has d backing of the emperor/pope who was the super power of the then political world, the Roman catholic church spread like wild fire by persecuting other part of churches planted by the apostles......this refered to the INQUISITION PERIOD and this ushered in what is called THE DARK AGE OF THE CHURCH. Pope/emperor ordered dat those who do not accept his idolatarous mixed christianity shuld b burnt alive.......

I THINK YOU ARE THE ONE THAT SHOULD DO YOUR RESEARCH WELL

Time will fail me to tell u all more. but i will b posting more of d UNKNOWN SECRET that average catholics are ignorant about. i wil soon post d secrets of NIMROD AND SERAMIS which is d root of "the woman and d child" image in d cath church, VATICAN I & II etc
You hv stirred d bee hornet my friend. sit down drop all the thing u tink u know and make some research

I HV SINCE LEFT THE SEMINARY SHORTLY BEFORE OUR ORDINATION WHEN WE WERE ABOUT TO TAKE THE OATH OF SECRECY to keep the cath church secrets secret...........dat is why no rev. father wil giv u straight forward answer if u ask him deep question about the cath. church.

Honestly, i hv deep concern and pity for multitude of blind follower who dont knw dat the cath church is jst Roman branch of the jerusalem dat was corrupted by roman idol worship.......... wil post soon

Yeah @ falseprophet, your lies are noted.

For any one who wish to know. It is scriptural that those with God share in certain aspects of Him. Note that any of these attributes such as Omnipotence,Omnipresence, Omniscience are God's alone and His to give. Believing that God cannot make another Omnipresent, is already a doubt on the omnipotence of God.

Scriptural backing could be found in these:

1.Even while in this mortal frame, we share in these aspects to the level that God allows and to which our mortal limitations could tolerate. Our Lords speech in Matt 17:20, "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you". If nothing is impossible to any one, is that not what omnipotence is? However note that it is your level of cooperation with the omnipotent God that grants you that. Bi-location is a share in omnipresence for those still limited by this flesh, degrees vary according to the measure God grants the individual. You may want to Google and read about Padre Pio.

2. For one who is no longer in the mortal frame, but is with God. These attributes come to the most perfect level it can be, for the cooperation of this individual is perfect and found worthy of the heavenly Jerusalem(Heb 12:22-23). So those who live with God share in a more sublime manner, these attributes of God. I shall give support for angels and for saints as seen in the passage above as inhabitants of Heaven with God.

2a Angels. Lk 15:10 "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth". It matters not where the sinner is, in a hole,in the mountain, in the sea, on land,in public, in secret etc. If he repents, there is immediately joy among the angels that is Omniscience and Omnipresence shared by the angels. Again because of their cooperation with the Omniscient and Omnipresent God.

2b. Saints. 1cor 13:12 " For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." St. Paul makes it clear here that earthly limitation to his knowledge will cease in heaven as he will be fully united to the all Knowing(Omniscient) God. He will know even as much as he is known!

chukwudi44: f you don't know this, you should know now.
The church Christ found is 'The Christian Church' which Deeper life is part of and not the 'catholic' church as you claimed

Bros I can see you are gradually getting mature in your lying? Seriously dude Deeper life was part of tis christian church? Do you mind telling me the beleifs and structure of this church in the first four centuries of christianity? Do you mind telling me just four members of these church who lived in these centuries let us compare their teachings to the deeper life church we have today?

I wait to see how you wriggle out of this.Hope you realise that even the orthodox church whom you are trying to identify is almost 100% identical with the catholic church? You really make me laugh ,the use of images and marian intercessory prayers are even more common in the orthopx churches than in the catholic church.The only place they disgree with the catholic church is just over the authourity of the pope and a few other doctrines like the filo que clause except you mean to tell me that your problem is with the term 'catholic' and not the beleifs and practices,

NB The catholic church is synonymous with the roman catholic church as the two terms are used interchangeably

Catholic Church - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Catholic Church, also known as the Roman Catholic Church, is the world's largest Christian church, with 1.2 billion faithfuls

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church

The terms "Romish Catholic" and "Roman Catholic", along with "Popish Catholic", were brought into use in the English language chiefly by adherents of the Church of England, which saw itself as the Catholic Church in England, so that they were not willing to concede the term Catholic to their opponents without qualification. [5

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_(term)

And they are still telling lies to justify the actions of their Adulterous founder.

In continuation. In these times of legalization of Abortions, we recall a saint canonized by Pope John Paul II, on issues related to this. Who is this saint and what year was the canonization?

Sal C: Ok, I would have mentioned the three if you had used titles instead of title while asking the question
Though that question led me to serious research.

Uben beat me to the next question. The first and second am sure he is right the third seems right but am not too sure.

Welcome back Sal C, Indeed to God be the glory. Do not worry, you got your full marks, just a little exposition more on the issue.

Ubenedictus got all the answers, they were all correct and complete too.

Ubenedictus: 1 the water baptism
2 baptism by blood
3 baptism by desire.
Or so i think...

Correct! 1. Baptism by water - The Individual witness to the faith by submitting to water sprinkling/immersion
2. Baptism by blood - The Individual witness to the faith by shedding his blood (die)for it.
3. Baptism by desire - The individual desires to be baptized and could not obtain baptism before death out of no fault of his/hers

In continuation.The church has identified various forms/types of baptism, name them?

Sal C: The title is Co-Redemptrix and the last vote against it was done in the month of August 1996.

Right. It would have been a three in one. Co-redemtrix, co-adjutrix and mediatrix of all graces.

Sal C: Good morning brethren.
Sal C will be going for surgery by 9am this morning and the doctor said it will take 4months for my complete recovery. Please pray for me. Though am only going to be away for few hours or a day as the case may be due to the anesthesia.

May the health of the sick, ensure that all goes well. Get back quick Sis.

italo: Hmm..."Catechist!" I have been thinking of that, but the timing doesn't really suit me and I'm involved with other ministries in my parish.

I'll keep thinking and praying about it.

Thanks.

ehm...bro Italo, pls when you decide to be one, abeg contact me, make you come for our side o.

italo: @ Sal C, dont answer any question here anymore!

Lol...

Lol, well, we are seeing no other attempt, even to support her answer; before I affirm or deny its correctness.

Hello brethren. Still in continuation, What is the title; the faithful have always given to Our Lady, which was recently consdered to be made a dogma but was suspended, and when did this occur.

Sal C: Santa Casa Di Loreto in Italy.

Happy Sunday brethren.

Once again you are right. The Holy House of Loreto. Isn't it wonderful that a house originally in palestine where Joseph and Mary lived, is now in Italy? Some said it was brought by a family, brick by brick, but the fact is that there would have been a recent date paste to hold the bricks together if so, yet none. Moreso it has been on two different sites in Italy, it is more believable that it was carried intact, by angels ( one reason for making Our Lady of Loreto, patroness of air travellers). Wonderful is our God, isn't He?

asco15: pray and d spirit will lead u 2 d place were they practise d standard of God, E.g. DEEPER LIFE

Ok now it is eg Deeper life? Are you a member? If you are, is there another eg? If you are not, then why?

Bidam: Up until now you've still not repented on the NT scripture i gave you on image worship? Na wa oh!

Acts 17:29 International Standard Version
So if we are God's children, we shouldn't think that the divine being is like gold, silver, or stone, or[size=16pt] is an image carved by humans using their own imagination and skill[/size]

I will keep posting this scripture till you see light.

Dear bidam. Are you not now the one calling mary Divine being? No catholic calls her Divine. Moreso, that aspect of scripture is simply saying that we are God's image and likeness since we are God's children. Using it in the manner you are doing does not help.

Sal C: Hello brethren.

Hello Sal C and all. I am late in coming today, however in continuation with our practice this month, " the house in which the holy family lived is presently a pilgrimage site and it's located where"?

adsonstone: Final Comments:

From all the contributions every one has made, I can now draw my conclusion and I must really acknowledge and commend the level of maturity everyone has shown on this thread. Despite all opposition and debates, there has been no abusive or derogatory statements and I wanna believe this is the most mature religious thread on Nairaland so far.

Special thanks to Ukuts gp for opening this thread.
Other contributors like:
Mufikings
Enigma
M.K.O2005
and Brothers from the catholic church:
Syncan

Chukwudi44
Tropical_Dr
Not forgetting Italo.
You guys are awesome! One love

P.s: Italo, pls check my second comment on page 12 and reply....maybe by PM.
Thank you all once again.

May Divine light guide your path.

adsonstone: The church in Rome (possibly Catholic)
I don't know exactly when it was compiled...probably in the early centuries.

And you believed that church was the true church then abi?

adsonstone: Comprehend what I say in the context I use then as it can mean any of the above.

The true church (the body of Christ with Christ as the Head) cannot teach falsely. Why: because they teach in line with what Christ taught.

Example: If Cutlass Sharp Sharp ministry (a gathering of 'Christians') teaches what is not in line with what Jesus taught, definitely, it is not part of the body of Christ, hence, not worthy to be called a church.

I believe you understand this.

Aha so there should be that church which is traceable to the apostles and christ, which cannot teach falsely, or is this true church of yours no longer in existence?