₦airaland Forum

sкчscrαρεr™:
yes i do, and i'm not a liar.

Oga sorry o, no vex.

Sal C: Her name is Susanna, the story is found in the bible book of Susanna. The boy proved the two men wrong by questioning the men seperately about where susanna committed the crime as they claimed but they mentioned two different location.

Did I forget to say the boy in question is Daniel?

A nice try, let's see if someone else could tidy it up.

Still digging from the archives of Christianity :

[b]... we declare that we defend free from any innovations all the written and unwritten ecclesiastical traditions that have been entrusted to us. One of these is the production of representational art; this is quite in harmony with the history of the spread of the gospel, as it provides confirmation that the becoming man of the Word of God was real and not just imaginary, and as it brings us a similar benefit. For, things that mutually illustrate one another undoubtedly possess one another's message.

... we decree with full precision and care that, like the figure of the honoured and life-giving cross, the revered and holy images, whether painted or made of mosaic or of other suitable material, are to be exposed in the holy churches of God, on sacred instruments and vestments, on walls and panels, in houses and by public ways; these are the images of our Lord, God and saviour, Jesus Christ, and of our Lady without blemish, the holy God-bearer, and of the revered angels and of any of the saintly holy men. The more frequently they are seen in representational art, the more are those who see them drawn to remember and long for those who serve as models, and to pay these images the tribute of salutation and respectful veneration. Certainly this is not the full adoration in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the honoured and life-giving cross, and also to the holy books of the gospels...[/b]

Council of Nicea 787AD . (They were the authentic Christians at the time, holding a council just like in Acts 15).

^^^Lol, una abegooooo.

He that continues to post lies and half truths, just to spite another, let him know that he does himself no good....even if he is ignored by those who know.

* I'm already seated *

From the archives:

"[b]1. Since I have mentioned this city I do not think it proper to omit an account which is worthy of record for posterity. For they say that the woman with an issue of blood, who, as we learn from the sacred Gospel, received from our Saviour deliverance from her affliction, came from this place, and that her house is shown in the city, and that remarkable memorials of the kindness of the Saviour to her remain there.

2. For there stands upon an elevated stone, by the gates of her house, a brazen image of a woman kneeling, with her hands stretched out, as if she were praying. Opposite this is another upright image of a man, made of the same material, clothed decently in a double cloak, and extending his hand toward the woman. At his feet, beside the statue itself, is a certain strange plant, which climbs up to the hem of the brazen cloak, and is a remedy for all kinds of diseases.

3. They say that this statue is an image of Jesus. It has remained to our day, so that we ourselves also saw it when we were staying in the city.

4. Nor is it strange that those of the Gentiles who, of old, were benefited by our Saviour, should have done such things, since we have learned also that the likenesses of his apostles Paul and Peter, and of Christ himself, are preserved in paintings, the ancients being accustomed, as it is likely, according to a habit of the Gentiles, to pay this kind of honor indiscriminately to those regarded by them as deliverers"[/b].

From the church History (VII) by Eusebius. b 260 AD. d before 341 AD

amara.lizzy%40y:
my dear watchn ur belove once picture is nt bad. we are talkn abt cross and how sure d persn on dat cross u pray wit is Jesus christ hav u seen hm b4.

How sure am I that the statue of Nnamdi Azikiwe in Onitcha is Zik,have I seen him before? Yet my child will be told "this is Nnamdi Azikiwe the first president of Nigeria". Do you think I am wrong?

People lived with Jesus, I have said it earlier, this Christianity is not a 21st century making. Christians have evangelized nations, supported by signs and wonders from God, gave their lives for Christ;while being aided by His grace....and they used the crucifix. If God was not pleased with them over the centuries, He would not have been with them. If you claim you are a better Christian than these missionaries and martyrs, let God's work through you be the judge.
If God decided that a look at a molded bronze serpent, is what should cure the malady of snake bite, who are we to question Him? If He did it then why do you think He can't wrought miracles again through the Image of His Crucified Son. "And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up" John 3:14. He does show His Powers in whatever or wherever He likes, No body replaces a wooden cross for God.

For today's quiz. "She was a woman of virtue, she resisted the lustful advances of some men, she was framed up by these men, she was saved by a boy who was under the inspiration of God. What is the name of this woman? Where is this story found? and how did the boy prove the men false in their story"?

Sal C: The heresy is Iconoclasm and it first occurred in the eighth century.


BTW am doing fine thanks.

Once again you are correct! And this is what the church fathers declared while condemning it:

[b]... we declare that we defend free from any innovations all the written and unwritten ecclesiastical traditions that have been entrusted to us. One of these is the production of representational art; this is quite in harmony with the history of the spread of the gospel, as it provides confirmation that the becoming man of the Word of God was real and not just imaginary, and as it brings us a similar benefit. For, things that mutually illustrate one another undoubtedly possess one another's message.
... we decree with full precision and care that, like the figure of the honoured and life-giving cross, the revered and holy images, whether painted or made of mosaic or of other suitable material, are to be exposed in the holy churches of God, on sacred instruments and vestments, on walls and panels, in houses and by public ways; these are the images of our Lord, God and saviour, Jesus Christ, and of our Lady without blemish, the holy God-bearer, and of the revered angels and of any of the saintly holy men. The more frequently they are seen in representational art, the more are those who see them drawn to remember and long for those who serve as models, and to pay these images the tribute of salutation and respectful veneration. Certainly this is not the full adoration in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the honoured and life-giving cross, and also to the holy books of the gospels and to other sacred cult objects.[/b]
Council of Nicea 787

Interesting reading, wisdom from above meticulously and sweetly applied,this is the faith we profess, the faith of our fathers! O lord, may I never leave the secure shelter of your church.

Caracta: ^ ^ ^
The pictures of your loved ones you carry, you mean even the ones alive? You carry their pictures (or anything) everywhere you go? Day and night? Every moment of the day?

I love mine dearly, yes. I don't carry their pictures with me. They are in my heart. Pictures are in albums

Yes, they are in my phone gallery, they adorne my laptop as wallpaper and screen saver, I look at them when I cannot be with them physically, that's where I guess we are different. Now if I had the power to speak to communicate with them or assure them of my nearness through my picture, I will do so. The all powerful God has that ability, he has used ordinary items when He could do without them eg the bronze serpent, the cherubs, even the cross. Our religion is not one that started in the 21st century, The cross or crucifix was worn by those who spread christianity throughout continents, God showed His presence with them via numerous miracles. If God is pleased with it, why worry? After all to please God is the aim.

nwuyag: @ ITALO
this is very true. I wont lie that they do not preach. They do that well. But the football clubs thanksgiving is the most disgusting. l. I attend a catholic church every sunday. There will be harvest by mid november in the church and they ve taken a whole lot of money. I dont just want to taint the name of the church, but if you want me to say it, I will and you will find out for yourself.
Its no different from pentecostals. They do seed sowing and tithes. Tithes @ the end/begining of the month and seed sowing @ 1st sunday. They also separate family harvest thanksgiving, (which the family will have paid some amount in doing it and will still collect from the congegration) with normal thanksgiving. Let me start naming the collections.
1.Offering
2. 2nd collection and thanksgiving after that.
3. laity collection
4. church building collection.(there is a song for this)
5. tithe
6. seed sowing
7. Harvest;- family, state, society, letter of alphaphet your name starts with, Month of birth and worst of all football clubs.
8. Harvest launching;-harvest dress launching, brochure launching, launching of king and queen of the harvest.
Launching is usually done with huge amounts, then general thanksgiving after the launching.
9. Apart from launching of brochure, people will still pay for things like; supporting Jesus picture on 1st page, mary on 2nd page, pope on third page, bishop on 4th page, priests on the 5th page. (I dont understan these ones). They will also make money on the sales and advertisement in the brochure.
On the harvest day, it will be worse. After the nos(1,2,3,4,6 and 7), there will also be stupid thanksgivings like
1. pregnant women,
2. children(they will use age groups), pry sch, sec sch, under grad, adult, old people.
3. societies; sacred heart, immaculate heart, st anthony etc.(all of them)
Then general harvest thanksgiving, and pass the tray for tips too.
Its a harvest but did I forget to say that nothing(to eat or drink) will be free on that day. Nobody send you. oyo

Please remain focused on the topic of the thread. If the catholic church preaches the gospel say so unequivocally and keep the rest. If what particular Parishes do on harvest day seems odd, it is remains what it is "what a particular parish did" and not the whole Catholic church. All you have just enumerated above has eclipsed your opening speech below:

nwuyag: @ ITALO
this is very true. I wont lie that they do not preach. [b]They do that wel[/b]l.

Caracta: Why would i need anything to even remind me of the death of Christ? He is risen! He lives in me. We have a strong connection. What kind of reminder again biko?

I have no doubt about your strong connection, maybe I need to work on my faith, just as I may also need to work on my love, for I carry with me, the pictures of my loved ones. I guess you don't, since you must love them so dearly that you need no pictures of them.

However just something for you from early christians,those who ran the race before us, who defended the faith we enjoy now, with their lives:

... we declare that we defend free from any innovations all the written and unwritten ecclesiastical traditions that have been entrusted to us. One of these is the production of representational art; this is quite in harmony with the history of the spread of the gospel, as it provides confirmation that the becoming man of the Word of God was real and not just imaginary, and as it brings us a similar benefit. For, things that mutually illustrate one another undoubtedly possess one another's message.

Council of Nicea 787AD.

.

Sal C: Good morning brethren and do have a wonderful week ahead.

@Syncan Are we on mid term break?

Good day to you Sal C, hope your healing is steady by the day. Yeah, we kind of had a weekend break

In continuation, at some time in the church history, some people started breaking Images found in the church. What is the name of the heresy associated with this and when did it first occur.

Caracta: I don't think God wants us to tie our faith around an object. Addressing such things as goodluck items or whatever means your faith depends on them...i.e without them you expect no good. Isn't that idolatry?

Can't we just serve God without replacing/representing/restructuring Him with an ordinary piece of item? I can...i don't know about you all. God is enough for me.

Yeah it may seem like it doesn't matter, but we still keep little pictures of our loved ones. Can't we just love them without replacing/representing/restructuring them with an ordinary piece of item? Jesus is God, but it pleased Him to take ordinary human flesh which can be described,drawn, carved, or molded. He died on a piece of item, a piece of wood, which can be represented. Those who bore witness for Christianity, the martyrs of old represented Him in the catacombs, yet he was happy with them and supplied them with grace backed with numerous miracles. Except one is ignorant of these or plain mischievous, one will not have a problem with the cross. The devil seek to remove every semblance of the cross, one day we'll doubt if the lord was truly crucified.

asco15: is dat ur ans.
Wat will i profit in lying 2 u. I am just sorry 4 ur soul. Knw dat it is neva d wish of God dat any1 of us sud perish. Turn away 4rm ur cath doctrines and worship God in truth and in spirit.
I wish u heaven at last in Jesus' name.

Today in the catholic church, we read about the pharisee and the publican. Your post just reminded me of today's lesson. Thanks.

asco15: Why will mary appear to people and will tell them to carve a medal and wear on their neck and whosoever does so will recieve blessings, healing and grace? Why will she ask people to pray the rosary for them to make heaven? Why will mary ask people to mould her image and venerate it to recieve grace. E.g read the story of St. Catherine, st. Dominic etc.
Do u think that that woman is indeed the mary, mother of Jesus? Or don't u knw dat mary may just be in heaven and doesn't knw wats happening on earth in her name? Don't u knw dat some powerful fallen angels like the queen of heaven (mentioned in Jer.44) is capable of such apparitions?
Beside, Must one devotes himself or herself to mary before going to heaven? When Christ had given us d holy spirit to be with us and help us make heaven, what else do we want?
Don't be decieve, bible says dat: unless a man be born again he can nt enta d kingdom of heaven and nt unless a man is a marian devotee he can nt enta d kingdom of heaven.
Be ye wise, for ye are inexcusable on dat day.

Ok, Is it this one now that is your problem? Mary appearing to people? Well you have to go a long way with your fight then. Since you have access to google do check out this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_the_Pillar.

Lord teach me to keep my mouth shut, until I know what I am talking about.

garripack: i asked because i wanted to know if there was a backyard preaching before or after the mass simple!!!!!!!!!

I shall leave you then to your lies. Jesus said he preached in public, so also the Mass is said in public. No point speaking in Ignorance when you can easily get yourself informed.

sкчscrαρεr™:
i'm not lying bro! Though i'm pentecostal but i have nothing against catholics because when i was in secondary school i used to attend a catholic organisation meeting because most of my friends were catholics and they were members too. But what i saw that day really shocked me, it was a big church attended mainly by rich people. I came late to meet them taking offerings so i had to call my friend who was already inside to come meet me outside cause the hall was filled to the brim. Even though they started taking the offerings before before i came the exercise lasted till the end of the service. Like i earlier said, it's a church attended mainly by rich people including renowned politicians. My head almost blew off with the amount of money i was hearing, people were giving 1m, 500k, 200k (no exaggeration) 100k, 50k, 20k, 10k, 5k, N500 and nothing less. They were collecting each money by family, they will announce the name of the family, the amount they're donating, and if it's huge, the kindof applaused they'll get will literally sweep you off your feet. (was that really necessary?) After they were done with the family category, they devised other means such as, community members, university polytechnic, ­college of education students, agape members, charismatic members, societal bla bla bla and other ridiculous or perhaps inconsequential group. The part that made me dumbfounded was when they asked football club fans to come drop their offerings. You needed to see gullible youth opening their teeth sheepishly while they danced to the alter. I was admist them though not before i felt it was proper but because i detest going to church without dropping an offering. I remember going with my friend to drop the offering with my friend who is a chelsea fan even though i am a die-hard fan of man united. As if that was not enough, the 'fada' had to come outside with a rubber kindof basket on his hands to collect offerings from the people who were standing outside. All these happened for about 3hours and even as they had to close the service because of time factor some families who were yet to pay their offerings were pleading but to no avail. After the service was over, i told my friend about the extravagant lifestlye of his church and we both laughed over it. Honestly, i will never forget that day.

Take a look at the words in bold.
1. You came late- So you wouldn't know what had happened before you came but i will tell you:
a) Introductory rites (Peace greetings and opening prayers)
b) Liturgy of the word (one old testament passage, one new testament epistle and one gospel passage and sermon from the priest)
c) Liturgy of the Holy Eucharist (prayers,breaking of bread and blessing of the wine, communion)

These have all taken place before you came. Now take a look at what you said, that prompted Italo to say you lied, and tell me if you honestly still stand by it.

2. The offering had started, and continued till close of service-Note that you went on a unique day, day for harvest, and this occurs once in a year, you could see from your comments that some families who felt obligated to make their own offering were not given the chance, due to time.

garripack: to me they don't preach real Gospel they just display sum preamble

Depends on when you joined in the Mass, if that is what you attended. The Catholic mass is same all over, it is broadcasted on TV some times, you can verify your claims from any of them. However, since you've made your conclusion; why do you ask the question?

darlynlara: Do not make any IMAGE is bible an image? Couldn't she have prayed in the church? Catholics should come and defend themselves and their doctrine.

Do not worry about Catholics coming to defend themselves darling, it is already an over flogged issue on NL, and they have not been found wanting in the defense of their practice. If God has decided to distinguish a place of contact with him by the presence of cherubs Ex 25:19, then it is possible to worship the true God in spirit while in the presence of an Image connected to Him, and without worshiping the image. Catholic all over say they do not worship Mary, St.Paul, St. Anthony, St. Teresa etc nor do they worship their images. Catholics worship God and God alone, in the sense of "worship" that is Adoration.

Ubenedictus: d harvest thing is just too much, i'm with family in edo state and they forced me to their harvest, since 8am i'm just returning from mass, i even didn't stay for the bazaar, this harvest thing is like a plan of d 'enemies' to murder me with hunger.
Let me stop here and satisfy my stomach.@dam thank for reminding me about d topic of todays homily.

Hahaha, no weapon fashioned against you shall prosper.

Harvest and bazaar just like every other thing should tow the path of moderation, however the strain of finance in parishes push many beyond acceptable limits. Money is once again distracting the church from her purpose, and that's what the Pope is talking about. We need money, Yes we should raise funds, but it should not distract us from seeing clearly such that we place too much burden on the faithful.

babestell: The parish here in PH usually has 6 masses on sunday, but for bazaar and harevest they have one mass that starts at 8am and closes at 2pm or later. Imagine a parish like St Dominic's Yaba doing that of course people will port, there are more efficent ways to do harvest and still raise funds.

hmm, Mater Misericodiae.

Ukuts gp: is the above not clear enough 4 u?

To answer your question, "No it is not clear enough to me". Now could you answer mine?

^^^Nice one.

maureensylvia: as for me, i cant remember the last time i went for confession. it was like maybe 2009 although am a staunch catholic but people said that its not good some said that its good. what is your opinion?

Dear one, Italo above made a nice submission. The church demands that you go for confession at least once a year, for you to continue calling yourself a practicing Catholic. So as it stands now, you are not so much in line with the practices of the church you belong. The examination of conscience that you do before each confession helps your alertness to temptation. The contrition you feel when you recollect your failings helps you resolve not to fall again. Someone once said that "an unexamined life isn't worth living", so the more frequent your confession, the more frequent you examine your christian life. One thing common among many saints is that they visit the confessional very often.

Dap07: pls what will happen if i commit a mortal sin and still go for communion? Will thunder strike me?

1cor11:28-29

"But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body"

Ukuts gp: now if u believe joseph is d father of jesus, why not use holy joseph father of God in ur prays too. It will nt be wrong then. Unless u are saying joseph is nt d father of jesus. That is my point.

What did you make out from my post?

Ukuts gp: u mean jesus does nt hv a father on earth? U know what those child that does not have a father are called abi.

It is time you decide what you believe in. If you are a christian, you do not need to ridicule your faith just to get on the Catholics. It's called cutting the nose just to spite the face.

The Bible all Christians read, did not hide the fact that Joseph did not give birth to Jesus in the natural order. Two places were Jesus geneology given in the Bible, take a look at them.

Matt 1:1-17. The narrator was using father begat son, making emphasis on the father eg vs 15,"And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;" However when it came to Jesus, the emphasis was moved to Mary albeit vs 16 "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

Lk 3 :23. I do not know which bible you use, but the one I have here now says "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli...". Here you see the "as was supposed" ensuring that the reader understands it in it's rightful term, that it was just a supposition.

So if you are a Christian and you make jest when Catholics believe in the Divinity of Christ, for he was begat of God, then you sure do not know what you're doing.