₦airaland Forum

amara.lizzy%40y:
i learnt 4rm dat pasage dat when christ was dead n was livin in spirit he went to preach 2 sum spirits in prison 4 dm 2 repent n acept God. Now christ has finish payn 4 our sins n has risen again notin lyk dat again.

Amii lets take it one by one, are you saying there was repentance after death?

italo: Permit me to ignore you.

Have you noticed that almost everyone has noticed that you have nothing sensible to offer?

Nothing! Zero! Empty!

No no no, Italo my bros, that is my amii, you're talking to like that, pls refer her to me and lef matter oooo. Amii don't mind dem you hear? talk to me instead.

.

amara.lizzy%40y:
ok tel me hw moses entered purgatory b4 enterin heaven cos i can't find dat in ur bible quotatn.

Have you checked out 1pet3:19, what did you get there? let's start from there dearie.

Kei144: Ro. 8:13 For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live,
Ro. 8:14 because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

[/i]It is only "by the Spirit" that a person could free himself/herself from sin. The reason why followers of Christ remain imperfect is that they do not now how to free themselves from sin "by the Spirit". Jesus apparently does that for them in Paradise, thereby giving them full redemption.
[i]
1Pe. 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit,
1Pe. 3:19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison
1Pe. 3:20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,


After Jesus Christ died on the cross, He went and preached to spirits in prison through the Spirit; these were spirits of those who died during Noah's flood. What is this prison? Is it Paradise or Hades? Does Jesus still minister to spirits of dead people after His resurrection?

There are many spiritual things we do not yet understand.

The spirit of God is here with us, for all who believe and are baptized, this is our justification. We however need to work out our salvation in fear and trembling(Phil 2:12), dying daily to our flesh 1cor 15:31, Col 1:24. We cannot do any of these without the spirit of God, not even to call Abba, father, could we. His grace however is enough for for us, as we rise after each fall, in the manner of the way of the cross.

There have been saintly theologians like Augustine, Aquinas, etc, the church has formed a teaching on this. note that Purgatory is not so much a place, as it is a state of being. The question is, Is there really a state one can be after death, where he does not deserve hell, but is not perfect for heaven?

Christ instituted a teaching church, He continues to guide His church to truth. The gates of hell will not prevail against her, she teaches;I believe, what else is there to understand, she is the pillar and foundation of truth (1Tim 3:15).

^^^ And he's got FACTS from dem documentary. We dey wait.

Boomark: I will not answer your question since you cannot pick a single error from my rants. If you don't know the answers, it is not my business since you will never know. All i gave was an advice.

@italo
Don't you know your adversary as a Christian or yours is based on denomination? SMH!!!

@syncan
don't you see how demerry wants me to start a circular movement with him as usual? I reject am. He read his bible and do as he wish. All am giving is advice devoid of error.

Hahahahaha, Bookmark, Bookmark, Bookmark ...you are a foe friend of old, I know you, Italo knows you, you have nothing new to tell us, damerry, my friend, is in good hands.

Sal C: First thing first, you're most welcome to this Catholic home dear Leon12, feel free to stop by often, and may you be aboundantly blessed.

To your post, there is no doubt we profess the faith taught by Jesus Christ and passed down by the apostles and church father to our present generation. Others only read the scriptures while we read and live the scriptures.

Once again, welcome home.

Yes, Yes @leon 12, welcome home. Thanks to you all, dear brethren for your inputs in that purgatory FP thread, to Italo especially for that input, directing brethren to our thread. Let the truth be told for those who will listen and not harden their hearts. Iron sharpens Iron, we keep learning and encouraging each other. I greet you all

philfearon: My brother,forget about that Macof guy...He jokes around a lot,and has neva completed any argument he started...He is just a joke bro,stop taking him serious!!

I already did. He's been weighed and found wanting.

amara.lizzy%40y:
use ur brain too, did moses enta purgatory b4 enterin heaven.

Amii, in a sense yes. 1Pet3:19. If you are in doubt just ask me first before coming to the public dearie.

Lady Excellency: Because she is no longer on earth and doesn't possess the omnipresent, omniscient and omnipotent powers to hear your prayer from heaven.

If Mary is here on earth assisting the weak in intercession, there wouldn't be any contradiction but now she is gone to her creator and have no knowledge of your prayers.

Really? 1cor 13:12 " For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." St. Paul makes it clear here that earthly limitation to his knowledge will cease in heaven as he will be fully united to the all Knowing(Omniscient) God. He will know even as much as he is known!

Serry2kz: My people, let us lead this guy that open this thread to Christ before his soul got wasted.
Guy, if u knw what is good for you now is to say after me,
Lord Jesus, l accept you as my personal Lord and Saviour, l'm sorry for all my sins, have mecry on me, remove my name from destruction and rewrite my name in the book of life, so tht l will be save in you forever and ever, Thank you Lord for saving me. Hallelluyah.

After this, please go back to your bible and read it very well for you to understand that their is no pagatory any where.

Peace.

If you could be wrong at something as clear as the OP of this thread, and her stand ? Then why am I surprised if you are wrong with scriptures.

Lady Excellency: So do we believe.

However the doctrines of judgement and reward will consummate our earthly works either into damnation (judgement) for sinners or commendation (reward) for the saints

Is this at variance with 1 cor 3:13-17? or in line with it?

macof: I made a mistake to previuosly state paul wasnt baptized, however I realized that long before u did and I modified the post. so deal with the new post

Well then, since I am dealing with a proud liar, why will I continue to show you what you will not acknowledge, what guarantee is there that you will not continue to edit your post as I tear it up, bit by bit? If you modified it, how did i notice? If You edited it before I wrote, Where did you note it? Also note that that my post was based on the first accuser, and he actually quoted your post, exposing your editing lies. If it was a mistake my friend, you will be humbler in admitting it. Thanks.

macof: true I posted that previously but did u ever check again after my modifying the post?

and is that ur only lie?

Will you be man enough to apologize for the insult now since i am right? Before we move on.

macof: u are mumu, answer my post and state the lies.

Thanks for the Insult. Just one for now and lets see what you'll do about that. You said Paul was not baptized

"And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized". Acts 9:18.

macof: you are really living a sheeps life.

so paul wasnt half roman, half jew?
paul nerver reffered yeshua as is personal god and savior?
peter and paul arent the founding fathers of christianity?
constatine wasnt emperor of rome?
constatine didnt convert to christiantiy?
constantine didnt deploy his army to preach and carry the sign of the crucifix as they killed millions of people?
constatine was baptized the day he was born?

dude nothing in my post is a lie. \
its all authentic truth

My friend, is that all you said in that post? search further, the clearer lies still abound.

Lady Excellency: No doubt about that, they needed a supporting faith hence they asked Mary likewise many do today by running to their Pastors and Brethren in the church to pray for them.

It's all about the level of our faith.

Mind you Mary was present (Soul, Spirit and Body) with them then and now we are let comfortless as he gave the church his Holy Spirit to support our faith.

Oh yeah? If it surely helps people of little faith, then why condemn it? After all the aim is same. No?

Lady Excellency: If you understand the New Testament well, the saints/righteous shall not pass through judgement hence only wait for the reward of their services/works while on earth.

Judgement is for sinners - who fails to abide by the teachings on the word of God.

Something is definitely wrong here, please can all non Catholics confirm that they agree with the above, or denounce it, since i do not understand the NT well as stated above.

We Catholics believe in "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment" Heb 9:27. What say you?

Lady Excellency: There is no evidence to suggest that Jesus Christ (PBUH) would have rejected their request had they made it directly to him with unquenchable faith.

Remember, he that asks receives

But we have a clear evidence that Mary got it for them. NO?

Lady Excellency: Bros, this your question is diversionary and has nothing to do with purgatory.

Let's look at the context and see what we can make out of it.

1Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

In verse 12, it talks and relates to our earthly works and services to "gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;" hence the analogy of;

Refined by fire (profitable) if they are - gold, silver, precious stones - selfless services/works

Burnt by fire (waste) if they are - wood, hay, stubble - works/services done for self glory and pride

The passage itself is not about judgement as it never relates to any sin committed or immoral character exhibited by these saints.

Verses 13 to 15 explain further by limiting the passage to reward for our (the saints) labour of love and how they were executed (selflessly or by vain-glory).

1. Seriously at the bolded? so when is the "day"?
2.Verse 17 is what?

kingk: Thank you bro for this light you threw in... Another perfect example is the thief at the cross, though we don't know the level of crime(SIN) he committed though I believe it's a worse one for him to be crucified.....
But he was forgiven and went to rest (paradise or[b] heaven[/b]). Not to pay again for his SIN in PURGATORY.

You just want to justify yourself by all means right? So the thief went to heaven that day abi? Did Jesus go to heaven that day too?

Kei144: He. 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly,
He. 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,
He. 12:24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.


I think that there were some things that the early Church (led by Jews) knew that the Romans (gentiles) did not clearly understand when they took over leadership of the Church from the Jews. The Roman Church therefore began to teach doctrines that were corrupted. That is why I see the RCC as the first stage in the evolution of the gentile church. I do not condemn the church; I rather see it as how the gentiles started their Christianity.

The doctrine of purgatory seems to be one of those corrupted doctrines, by which I mean that there may have been a clearer understanding of what happens to spirits (souls) of dead saints (followers of Christ) while they rest in Paradise. Hebrews 12:23 may be alluding to that. We all know that no follower of Christ has yet attained perfection in the land of the living. It is only the followers of Christ that will participate in the rapture that must attain perfection here on earth (Eph 5:27). But Heb 12:23 describes spirits of dead saints already made perfect. The process of purging the spirits of dead saints of their imperfection may be what purgatory is all about. However, the process is definitely nothing like the RCC describes in their doctrine of purgatory.

Dear one, You read your scripture well, you drew a good inference which a lot of people are either ignorant of or refused to believe. However what you already see the catholic church as is still keeping you from the truth..."can any good thing come from Nazareth" says Nathanael, how wrong he was, when he encountered the lord. You found out that there must exist a process of purging, which no one else but Catholics agree to, yet you claim it is nothing like what Catholics say it is. Could you mind giving your own exposition of what it should look like and what is making the catholic own different?

Note: "Now that you have heard His word, harden not your heart"

italo: This is sufficient!

Your question was:
Concerning the bold, if you are still punished (temporarily) on earth (and even after death) after you've been forgiven, then what exactly is forgiveness?

That shows you what exactly (God's) forgiveness is.

I had felt like shouting the bolded a long time ago. You've answered quite a lot of questions thrown, yet no one has attempted to give an answer to yours. A lot of bla bla bla, yet the questions asked since the first page continued to be unanswered.

Pipsland78: This dude is really funny. Nowhere in the verses quoted is it suggested that any sin will be forgiven in the world to come. So how did he come about the idea of sins being forgiven in the afterlife?

People should stop assuming and misinterpreting the Bible .

Indulge us wise one then, with your deep understanding of those words in bold.

hmm

Well...Amii, I believe there is purgatory, and I also believe Italo was just gradually leading you to the prove. You may still ask him nicely to continue the exposition, but make sure you attempt all question dearie.

italo: Hail Mary, full of Grace

The Lord is with you

Blessed are you among women

And blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus

Holy Mary, mother of God

Pray for us sinners

Now and at the hour of our death.

Amen.

Amen.

Boomark: Here comes syncan, who did not see anything wrong in the good him and his catholic brothers but he's delightly in love with practicing the doctrines of men found in bulletins.

Anyone practicing amadiohanism who tells you that he is worshipping by practicing the oral traditions he received from the Apostles, can you boldly challenge him? NO. Birds of a feather.

And when such a person get many converts, he will boldly tell me that he won then for God. SMH!!!

If we should drop bulletin and awake, you all will be in trouble when we reason from the scripture.
Am not ready to waste time moving in circles .

I had thought its your stock in trade...moving in circles.

Wisdom-Me:
No catholic will eva make heaven

Says the one who is already there.

I just had a brief examination of my life based on this thread. Thank you Alfa, won't be entirely truthful now if i say I never gained from you. I will come back later for a thorough examination when I'm less busy. Meanwhile,

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates.

For any one who wish to know.In line with what Italo had posted earlier, It is scriptural that those with God share in certain aspects of Him. Note that any of these attributes such as Omnipotence,Omnipresence, Omniscience are God's alone and His to give. Believing that God cannot make another Omnipresent, is already a doubt on the omnipotence of God.

Scriptural backing could be found in these:

1.Even while in this mortal frame, we share in these aspects to the level that God allows and to which our mortal limitations could tolerate. Our Lords speech in Matt 17:20, "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you". If nothing is impossible to any one, is that not what omnipotence is? However note that it is your level of cooperation with the omnipotent God that grants you that. Bi-location is a share in omnipresence for those still limited by this flesh, degrees vary according to the measure God grants the individual. You may want to Google and read about Padre Pio.

2. For one who is no longer in the mortal frame, but is with God. These attributes come to the most perfect level it can be, for the cooperation of this individual is perfect and found worthy of the heavenly Jerusalem(Heb 12:22-23). So those who live with God share in a more sublime manner, these attributes of God. I shall give support for angels and for saints as seen in the passage above as inhabitants of Heaven with God.

2a Angels. Lk 15:10 "Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth". It matters not where the sinner is, in a hole,in the mountain, in the sea, on land,in public, in secret etc. If he repents, there is immediately joy among the angels that is Omniscience and Omnipresence shared by the angels. Again because of their cooperation with the Omniscient and Omnipresent God.

2b. Saints. 1cor 13:12 " For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." St. Paul makes it clear here that earthly limitation to his knowledge will cease in heaven as he will be fully united to the all Knowing(Omniscient) God. He will know even as much as he is known!