₦airaland Forum

Originalsly:
Why has Nigeria progressed half as much as the countries listed? Crumbs is not about investing but how much does the host country gain from the investment. What has Nigeria gained ? Were the conditions same as the other countries? IPhone and Tesla in China.... what has China gained? .... their technology. China is now top producer of electric cars ... surpassing Tesla. They are sekling phones and cars to the world. How about us? We got crumbs.

There again, you keep blaming the wrong people.
You ask why Nigeria has progressed half as much as these nations and I am going to give a couple of reasons.
1. Nigeria has much less foreign investment as the nations stated above.
2. Nigeria has a hopeless government and terrible policies that wouldn't allow the nation reap the reward of foreign investment.
3. Nigerian policy actually discourage foreign investment. This is very clear as we see small countries like Ghana getting more foreign investment per Capita than Nigeria.
It is wrong to blame foreign investment for our problems. Let us look inwards at our own corruption.
I personally know a few businesses that had intentions of setting up shop in Nigeria but went to Ghana because your evil government made it so hard for them.
Guinness and Michelin left Nigeria for Ghana so the idea that we bend over backwards can't be true.
Despite the fact that more than 70% of west African Twitter accounts are Nigerian, their regional headquarters is in Ghana.
So the idea that we are doing well for foreign companies is not true. We have a negative and unfriendly system.

Originalsly:
Whatever is done by locals .... the resulting gains remain within the country and boosts the economy. Whatever is done by foreign companies ... almost the whole loaf is taken out of the country and crumbs left for the local economy. I guess we should be thankful for crumbs ... it is better than nothing.

I think Crumbs is a very long stretch. I don't think China would call their deal with the iPhone and with Tesla eating of crumbs. I am not sure the US calls their over 5 trillion dollars in foreign investments crumbs. The same goes for the UK. The economies of Hong Kong and Singapore are almost completely built on foreign investments.
Foreign investment is more like a trade deal. Someone provides jobs and develops a nation in exchange for money. He pays tax to your government. He introduces new products, new technology, and capital into your economy.
He does business with the local companies thus, increasing local content. I don't see these as crumbs. I see this as a very positive thing that has lifted many nations out of poverty.
Today, Bangladesh has lower poverty and a bigger per capita income than India. 50 years ago, they were poorer than most African countries.
How did this happen? American and European fashion giants made the country their production base.
They took in billions of dollars in investment. These fashion houses came there for cheap labor. It ended up being a win-win for everyone.
The nation and people of Bangladesh were pulled out of poverty, The investors became richer and the customers could access cheaper mass-produced fashion.
I will never see this as crumbs.

Originalsly:
Again .... that's a good business climate .... for everyone . We do not have a good business climate for reasons you mentioned. But we bend over backwards to attract foreign investors and that leads to exploitation. Dangote is an exception ... pretty much like him running a government entity. No doubt ... the government bends more than backwards forDangote ... but that's an exception for local businesses. I prefer the FG bend over backwards for local businesses than for foreign ones. Can we do a lot better in the business sector for both local and foreign investors to improve the economy? Absolutely ... a whole lot better but who will take greed off the table?

Dangote is not the exception. Every connected business man in Nigeria gets a lot of bending over. Almost every business that ever won a contract in Nigeria benefited from the bending over
Now I keep asking you, how do foreign businesses exploit you? Are you not being much more exploited by you local businesses?
I know secondary schools that pay graduates 25k a month and they are not foreign owned.

Originalsly:
Foreign business.... is not the same as local business. Why talk about any business when it is about foreign businesses?
Rolling out the red carpet means bending backwards .... going beyond normal practices to make it verrry easy for the foreign business to operate and make profit. The FG will provide infrastructure.... give tax free breaks for yearsss .... duty free concessions on imported equipment and reduced tariffs on goods imported etc..... these it will not do for a local business. The US does not do this... it tells the company what it needs to provide ... conditions under which it can operate in the US and they have to adhere to these conditions or face severe penalties. Ease of business .... things that need to be done can be done easily in the US while in Nigeria... nothing is straightforward... you need to have connections... you need to pay bribes.... no Ease of business in Nigeria.

First, if we are really bending over backwards as you say, businesses would be flooding in and not running away.
Let me give you a better definition of bending over backwards for businesses and then I will ask you, if you are a business man, which of these business climates would you prefer.
Bending over backwards means making it easy for businesses to incorporate and have all the needed licenses.
It means building the infrastructure that grow businesses.
It means having policies that give small businesses a little chance to disrupt.
It means funding universities and giving them independence to innovate.
It means government not being able to close down any business just for the fun of it.
It means frowning upon corruption so that businesses do not invest much of their resources on bribes.
This is what it means to bend over backwards for businesses and this is why businesses don't choose Africa.
Still on topic, Nigeria continues to bend over backwards for Dangote more than any foreign business.
Again, having free trade zones is to build your own businesses much more that foreign companies. Please ask the Chinese if you disagree.

illicit:
Disgusting

The guy has millions of followers on Instagram.
Nigerian are only pretending to hate him, they actually love him.

Originalsly:
The US does not roll out the red carpet for foreign businesses.... Nigeria does. Ease of doing business is a different topic. Free Trade Zones do not abide by the laws of the host country ... and always set up in impoverished countries for the exploitation of cheap labour. If a foreign company is mining cobalt .... employing a few hundred unskilled laborers... having them work long hours at below minimum wage ... abusing them ... making US100M per year profit but giving $1 M to the country .... is this really adding value to the economy? ... or exploitation? Depends on how you look at it.... if anyone or the economy gains anything ... no matter how small ... one can consider it beneficial to the economy... exploitation will never exist.

Ease of doing business is everything. Rolling out the carpet for a business simply means giving the business all it needs to succeed. Please explain how this is any different from ease of doing business?

Free trade zones are in China, Canada, Italy Turkey, Israel and Japan to name a few. It's not only in poor counties. And they are set up to spur development. We have seen it work wonders in China and India.

Lete use you Cobalt example.
If foreign companies are employing locals and paying them just $1, then you can be sure that local companies are paying much less for the same service. In Africa, foreign companies on the average pay much more that local businesses.

Let's compare two companies; Dangote and Nestle.
Dangote is by far the biggest company on the NSE but Nestle still pays higher wages to its workers because of its foreign connection.

Originalsly:
No doubt. But what are the conditions under which foreign companies operate in the US? The US does not lay out the red carpet for foreign companies like they do in Nigeria ... neither can they just pack up and leave overnight. What we refer to as foreign investment is almost always foreign exploitation. Question to you ... how many Free Zones in the US?

Again, you are wrong. The US is always top 5 in the ease of doing business and Nigeria is number one hundred and something in the ease of doing business.
The US actually rolls out the carpet. They do everything for businesses to succeed.
Also, the US does not need a free trade zone. It's already a super attractive place for businesses and talents.
Again, I disagree with you when you talk about foreign exploitation. Yes there are always going to be bad actors but most foreign businesses in Nigeria are adding value to the economy and it's not as if your local businesses are any less exploitative.
.

Ofodirinwa:
Africans are clowns.

You will continue courting 'FOREIGN INVESTMENT' as if it is a good thing. You will not ask yourself what is good about it.
Ok it 'creates jobs', but the minute one kpim happens, they pack up and leave. Imagine creating useless jobs that disappear when the economy is bad. Mind you, when the economy is bad is when you need jobs. So now you have a situation where when an economic problem is supposed to be a 2, it immediately becomes a 10 because you're depending on people who are ready to run when any sign of stress appears.

Please. Let them leave, and let us stop trying to pretend that 'multinationals' are worthwhile assets to ANY economy.

I don't think you know how the economy works.
Question for you, which country has the highest foreign investment? Answer is the USA
And China comes second.
You would never hear an American economist complaining about foreign investment the way you are
Investors and businesses are supposed to do all they can to protect themselves from failing economies and failing government policies. They don't owe your government, they owe their shear holders.
Now you are unhappy because 15 foreign investments left right? How about the 100s and thousands of local businesses that failed within the same time period because they did not have the opportunity of taking their businesses to a better country?
Would you prefer these businesses to fail?

Aonkuuse:
Unfortunately people won't accept this one because it is not a bad prediction against Nigeria

This actually is not supposed to be a big deal. This would make Nigeria one of the slowest countries in sub Saharan Africa to return to it's pre pandemic size.
Again, under the corrupt PDP, we grew by more than 6% yearly average but the Tinubu government can only give us half that growth.
You really think this is reason to celebrate? Now compare the projected growth with the projected population increase and tell us if you are still so impressed.

zinaman:
GOOD ALL.

PLEASE LADIES AND GENTLEMEN HERE ON nairaland, I am in a state of confusion, needs an advise on weather to learn Welding or to learn truck driving. Secondly, which of them will help me immigrate quickly. Thanks and happy new year to you all.

There is a shortage of truck drivers in the US, UK, Canada, Australia and EU.
The UK alone is short by 60k
The USA is short by 80k
Canada is short by 20k
So you see your opportunity.

Gerrard59:
On one hand, you want Nigeria to be a major exporter. On the other hand, you want a strong naira. Sorry, things don't work that way.



That is not true. If our businesses are becoming less competitive, why are foreign merchants coming to buy agricultural produce from Nigerian farmers? Why did they not go to Ghana? Benin Republic? Manufacturers have been able to sell their products to the West African market because these products are cheaper than previously.



Yes. Japan, South Korea and China attract tons of investments. The naira is stronger than the Won of South Korea. Is that a bad or good thing?



A weak naira is Nigeria's major option for industrialisation. How can we compete with Chinese-made goods if the naira is strong? How can our textile industries compete with Bangladesh? Nigeria is too populated to have a strong currency. Highly populous countries MUST have weak currencies for them to thrive economically. Is there any country with over a hundred million people with a currency as strong as Swiss Franc?

A factor to having a strong currency is crude oil or other relevant natural resource like copper or lithium, just like the Emiratis or Chileans, but we have OVER TWO HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE. We produce less crude for our gigantic populace.



Those into importation should change focus to exports.

Then this since I want it to be one post:


This is where I disagree with govt policies. Import levies should be scrapped on heavy equipment meant for productivity and manufacturing. Slapping high import levies on all products isn't good. Security should be improved across all boards so people can conduct their businesses safely. Those are the factors behind infrastructure cost, not necessarily a weak currency. East Asian nations used the revenues derived from the export of goods (weak currencies aided this) to develop other sectors. Hong Kong was once a hub for clothing and cheap electronics manufacturing. Today, that is not the case.

I don't know why you referenced Germany in the '30s, but the Argentina and Zimbabwe cases resulted from socialism and nationalisation. Zimbabwe also suffered from Western sanctions because Mugabe seized lands from white farmers. Apples to oranges.

Hi bro, I just saw a post on Nairaland and I remember our discussion.
It says Cadbury, Guinness, Others Lost N472bn To Naira Depreciation.
This should tell you that a falling currency is not necessarily good for industry.
Again imagine the faith of small and medium scale industries.
How do you expect them to cope. It may not be a wise idea to ask Nigerians to invest in manufacturing right now

santaclaws:
What steps did you guys take to help him develop masculine traits as a child? You see a boy acting like a little girl, y'all should have made sure he did more manly things like playing sports with males and generally reminding him that he's a boy. You don't allow a boy play with dolls, it's very wrong.

It may be a bit late now but there is nothing God cannot do. You all just need to pray for him cos if he's already having gay intercourse, then it's a serious issue... Nevertheless, God can change anyone.

Oga what does playing ball have to do with sexual orientation?
So according to you, sports to the cure to being gay?

Gerrard59:
On one hand, you want Nigeria to be a major exporter. On the other hand, you want a strong naira. Sorry, things don't work that way.
Oga it actually works that way. You don't destroy your currency if you want to grow your industrial capacity. It's only after you have a large export based economy that a weak currency would favor you. Don't put the cart before the horse.



That is not true. If our businesses are becoming less competitive, why are foreign merchants coming to buy agricultural produce from Nigerian farmers? Why did they not go to Ghana? Benin Republic? Manufacturers have been able to sell their products to the West African market because these products are cheaper than previously.

This is actually not a relevant point. First, no one told you that merchants do not go to other countries to buy products. Thousands of the cows you eat come in from Chad and Niger.
Please don't say what you don't know.


Yes. Japan, South Korea and China attract tons of investments. The naira is stronger than the Won of South Korea. Is that a bad or good thing?

You are not making sense here. You mentioned 3 counties but the Naira only happens to be stronger than 1 of them.
Now if south Korea was a net importer, having a weak currency would have destroyed their economy. Hope you are understanding


A weak naira is Nigeria's major option for industrialisation. How can we compete with Chinese-made goods if the naira is strong? How can our textile industries compete with Bangladesh? Nigeria is too populated to have a strong currency. Highly populous countries MUST have weak currencies for them to thrive economically. Is there any country with over a hundred million people with a currency as strong as Swiss Franc?
Wrong.
A weak currency is a recipe for poverty and disaster in a poor import dependent country.
Here is why.
1. It's unattractive to investors. No foreign investor in interested in earning Naira.
2. It put a strain on our foreign reserves.
3. It leads to hyperinflation.
4. It makes infrastructure very expensive.
5. It makes the cost of investment very expensive.
For example industries and farmers would find it more difficult to buy machinery.
The price of a new tractor has doubled in less than a year. The cost of agro chemicals have 4x. This ultimately reduces production

A factor to having a strong currency is crude oil or other relevant natural resource like copper or lithium, just like the Emiratis or Chileans, but we have OVER TWO HUNDRED MILLION PEOPLE. We produce less crude for our gigantic populace.

Please explain how have a gigantic population affects the strength of the naira?

Those into importation should change focus to exports.

Then this since I want it to be one post:
That would be a very unwise decision. There is a reason why industries are folding up and many foreign companies are running away from Nigeria.
Asking a business to switch from import to production in the Nigerian environment would be suicidal for more than 90% of them. If P&g with over 100 years of experience and multi billions could not survive the harsh environment than you are being wicked for requiring people to switch to production.

I don't know why you referenced Germany in the '30s, but the Argentina and Zimbabwe cases resulted from socialism and nationalisation. Zimbabwe also suffered from Western sanctions because Mugabe seized lands from white farmers. Apples to oranges.

China is a socialist republic.
The Nordic countries have as much socialist policies as Argentina and Zimbabwe. And yes, Zimbabwean currency fell as a result of bad government policies just like in Nigeria.
So this proves that bad government policies weakens your currency. The most recent case is that of Sri Lanka. Please read more.

Truths9ja:
Eko onibaje, no city beat Lagos State in West Africa and East Africa

Oga many cities beat Lagos in many things. Please try to travel more.
Yes Lagos with over 20 million people has the biggest economy but in terms of many other things, many cities beat Lagos.
From cleanliness, to pollution, to safety, to traffic, to beauty.
Please travel then we can have this discussion.

Gerrard59:
There is nothing wrong with the naira. Its value is the best at the moment. I even wish for further devaluation. We don't need a strong naira. What for? Are we Singapore or Switzerland?

That's very wrong.
If you were an exporting country, you would love a devalued naira but as an importing nation which we are, you need a strong naira.
Nigerian businesses and industries are becoming less competitive and it's becoming more risky to invest in Nigeria.
Would you want your investment in a failing currency market?
A weak currency has little to no advantage to us as a nation for now.
Surely, a few will benefit from a falling Naira. I actually benefit from it but to pretend that it isn't hurting us, that's a big lie.

Gerrard59:
Factors such as epileptic power supply, insecurity, poor infrastructure and bureaucratic processes, NOT weak currency.

Sir please do your research on the effects of a failing currency
Take early 1930s Germany, Zimbabwe and Argentina as case study.
I am not telling you abstract things.
Just read and learn.
You currency was the 3rd worse performing currency of 2023. Do you really think it has no effect on your economy?
What happened to the cost of infrastructure as your currency falls? Simple answer, it goes up.
If a tractor used to cost 100 million naira, it now cost 200 million.
Bro, you should know these things.

MT:
Messi scored 91 goals in a calendar year in 2012.

So what has not been done before?

You don't use sentiment to win awards.

If he likes, he should score 70 goals at the age of 100 years.

Messi is three steps ahead of the dude (Ronaldo) and a step ahead of both Maradona and Pele

Now you are getting it. Messi scored 91 goals in Spain the bigger league but could not do it in the smaller league in France. Now we see who is using sentiments.
Finally, your statement, If he likes, he should score 70 goals at the age of 100 years. Is just purely sentimental.

xperiencelove:
We including you know all elite footballer including Messi that moved to Saudi Arabia, MLS, Chinese league, and the likes went there to make more money and retire. Apart from money involved, Nigeria league is more competitive than all of them by far! The previous season in one of those leagues, the highest goal scorer scored 50+ goals and we don't even know his name. Mbappe 3 goals in 2022 world cup final alone are greater and more valuable than every goals put together from those aforementioned semi-professional leagues.
It is like saying Ighalo is better than Osimeh because he has more goals with Al Wahda in Saudi than Osimeh with Napoli in Seria A this season.

First you have no way of comparing the Saudi league to the Nigerian league apart from money as you say.
So we can't even start to take you serious.

TrumpBiden:
Bro . Are you being serious or you're just trying to be funny?

You can't seriously bring Messi to this conversation, Messi has just 14 appearance for inter Miami and has scored 11 goals with 5 assists.

This Ronaldo's hype is criticized because before now Saudi league's highest goal scorers were never compared to European top scorers? So why now?
Is Saudi Arabia in Europe all of a sudden?

If this is the new normal, then don't forget to mention top scorers in Australian leagues and Chinese leagues

So Messi stats for inter Miami are not even better than his stats for Barca?
The idea that goals in the Saudi league should mean less than goals in bigger leagues do not quite make sense.
A good example of this is Messi. He score far more goals in the bigger Spanish league than in France.
What Ronaldo did this year is simply incredible. It has never been done.
We do not have many 38 years olds topping the world scoring chat no matter the league.

mrLagosian:
A goal in Europe's big 5 is worth 2 in Saudi soccer. But since it's Ronaldo,all sense is dropped in the trash.

Let them give him his Dubai d'or as compensation.

This is just nonsense. How come other elite strikers who came from Europe to Saudi can't double their numbers?
How come Messi in the US league isn't doubling his numbers?
If the Saudi league was so easy then Benzema who was world's best just 2 years ago should be tearing it up.
A 38 years old man is scoring 54 goals when younger boys can't but you still find a way to criticize.

DeOTR:
Our currency is falling because we have a largely unproductive human capital. We should be deliberately devaluing our currency to gain competitive advantage if things were right.
We spend naira, but everytime the value falls, the price of everything goes up. You don't need an expert to tell you our economy is over dependent on importation.
We have food shortage, yes, but how's the strength of our currency suppose to help on that if you're not thinking about importing it?
A nation that can not feed herself, and you want a strong currency? Dey play.

I agree with almost everything you are saying. In fact, you are making my point. We have a failed government.
Why do you think we can't feed ourselves and why do you think we are dependent on importation?
Your government has made it practically impossible for production and businesses to thrive. I am talking as a business owner.
On the other hand, all our neighboring countries are also import dependent but they still have better managed economics so our problems are beyond a lack of productivity.
We suffer from a completely failed system.
Do you realize that only few years past, thousands of people from Benin, Togo, and Niger used to come to Nigeria every year to work as farm hands?
Now you hardly find any of them. It's no longer profitable for them. It's now the other way round. We have hundreds of Nigerians hawking on the streets of Ghana and Abidjan.
All these happened in just a few short years.

DeOTR:
You're the one who's not making sense, or rather, you're getting the whole point wrong.
This thread is about people outside the country buying our produce because of the value of our currency. The reason you're cursing the government is what I do not understand. You're only worried about the value of our currency as compared to that of our neighbors which is not a big deal if we're self sufficient. We should only be worried that almost all our farmers are on the subsistence level. Things are hard and getting harder in the country because we depend mostly on countries to meet our basic needs

Oga, you have a falling currency and a food shortage. We should be worried about everything.
There is a growing inflation because the supply of food can't meet the demand.
Now you say you don't understand why I am blaming your government right?
Let me explain to you.
The only reason your currency keeps falling is because of very bad decisions made by your government.
We have the 3rd worse performing currency of 2023 and this is leading to inflation.

NICEEY:
Nigeria can actually provide enough food for itself, but insecurity is to be dealt with first. These babdits are trying to stop farmers from farming until they pay them. But upon all these, more and more youths are going into farming.

Oga we already have more than enough farmers. We have more farmers than the EU and US put together. We don't need more farmers, we need more productivity. This calls for huge capital.

GeneralDae:
This is a good thing if we can increase production and find a way to bring the proceeds of these exports to the CBN and the formal economy.

But we both know that we wouldn't. It all ends here on Nairaland.

Gerrard59:
But this is an opportunity for new entrants to enter the industry to cultivate and harvest more crops. How is it a bad thing? Should Nigerian farmers refuse to sell their produce to the highest bidders? Must their buyers be fellow Nigerians? Why not advocate for more farmers and larger farmlands? Why try to restrict who and at price Nigerian farmers sell their harvests to?

The problem is not the Nigerian farmer, it's the Nigerian currency.
And yes large investments into agriculture is the solution.
Then again, the problem is not that we don't have enough farmers. We actually have more farmers than the US and EU put together. Having more farmers would only lead to more poverty. What you need is to increase the productivity of your farmers.
This takes huge investments.

DeOTR:
The farmers are free to sell their produce to the highest bidders.
If the citizens are productive, we won't be here talking about weak currency. If you're not happy about this news, go into farming and sell for cheaper.

You are not making any sense. First, no one is blaming the farmers but to think that the solution is for more people to go into farming shows that you have no understanding of how things work.
Nigeria has more farmers than the EU and US put together yet we can't feed ourselves.
Again, the average Nigerian farmer is poor. I have traveled many of the biggest farming communities in Nigeria and I don't see lots of millionaires. I see very poor and backwards farmers.

aspabay:
Illiterates all over this thread. I don’t blame you I blame the reporters who made it look like bad news. You have more people buying from you and you call it bad news.

That’s forex flowing in guys.

You say food is expensive, foreigners are rushing to buy, isn’t that a marvel.

God bless Tinubu.

Oga you are not very intelligent.
Now I will try to school you but I am sure it's a waste of time.
In 2020, 1000 naira was equal to 1400 cfa but now, 1800 naira is equal to 1000 cfa.
So yes, Nigerian produce are now very cheap for other countries. But again because you are not producing enough for your local market, you are facing a good shortage leading to an inflation in local prices.
Only an idiot thinks this is great news.
So just imagine you have just a bowl of garri to feed your family of 10 but then you are force to sell it. That's an over simplified way of explaining it to you.

pipnator00:
This is one of the advantages of weak currency. Weak currency increases international when the base country have enough to/for export.

This is one area the Japanese Yen thrives over other currencies while the Chinese manipulates their currency to weaken it and increase trade. This is one of the big problems Donald Trump had with them.

In this case, your weak currency is causing inflation.
Nigeria was not producing enough food for it's population but now we are sharing it with our neighbors. Prices would go up in our local markets.

Druss:
We really need to sort out our internal logistics and security wahala. I presume transportation is easier between those countries and Nigeria than internal Nigeria transportation.

It's not a transportation problem oga. It's a currency problem.
So in 2020, 1400cfa was equal to 1000 naira but today, 1000 cfa is equal to 1800 naira. So it's very cheap and easy to buy up Nigerian produce and continue to drive up inflation

accordadoga21:
Hehehe

Some people are already rejoicing now.

Awon omo ale naija

The true Omo ale are those who voted for this mess.
The problem with Nigeria is manmade. It's a problem of leadership.
Those who voted for Buhari are the primary cause of this and those who went ahead to vote the incumbent have continued in that line.
Those rejoicing are not the problem. It started with those who voted wrongly.

Meddymeddy:
I have seen plentiful post about failed marriages on the Internet. Most marriages only last a couple of years before divorce comes up. Although there are few happy marriages. The ratio for happy marriages and failed marriages is 20:80. There are many factors that contribute to failed marriages which include cheating, unfaithfulness, finance etc. Some just wake up and realise that their wife is no longer attractive ( did they force her on you? ). Back in the days marriages were pre set up whereby couples barely knows themselves. Nowadays you see couple dating for 6-10years and when they finally get married issues will start poping up.

Maybe marriage should be like a contact after some years it will be terminated depending on how long the couple want it to be

You claim that the ratio of happy marriages to failed ones is 20:80. Please what's the source of your data because I suspect it's a totally fabricated figure.

Roger3D:
You're most certainly in support of adulterated goods and no it is not better than skull mining

Funny people. You guys should have a debate. Skull mining vs adulterated goods. You will represent team skull mining.