₦airaland Forum

Oblivion34:
In my defense, ASUU has always been unreasonable in negotiations with the federal government.

ASUU were insisting on suffering themselves and the poor students by not calling off the strike.

They also claimed to be ok with the "No work, No Pay" policy. [color=#990000][/color]

Aside from that, we'll always see them insult the government at any given chance; either on social media or live TV.

They also said they were never going to beg the government because they were clearly the boss of them and not the other way around.

Why should they be paid when they were willing to stress the strike up until the next year unless they get what they want?

Why should they paid when they told students to sacrifice two years of their time for them?

Why can't they also sacrifice their salaries for the cause?

It's important to note that ASUU was willing to stress the strike for as long as they want because they were 100% sure of their paycheck before or after the strike has been called off. [color=#990000]

If they get paid, who will compensate the students?

I am sure the students have already been compensated with exam timetables. And lecturers are preparing to come and stamp their foot on the ground in lecture theaters to brag about how they'll get paid whether they come to class or not.

I want to implore the federal government to adhere strictly to the "No work, No pay" policy.

This is the only way we can use to break ASUU's wing and allow our students to graduate at the appropriate time.


How long will the government keep begging ASUU? Year after year, ASUU must declare a strike!

In my opinion, the salary issue should also be tabled at the court of law. I will love to see them win that case in court

The "No work, No Pay" policy must stand in other to curb yearly strikes.

LegalWolf:
Hey TenQ

Matter was adjourned and got back earlier than I thought.

You are quite funny and your attempt to stretch logic to the limit does not make sense. Let me recap the main points of the conversation so we don't get points muddled up:

LegalWolf:
- The sole question in dispute is whether the Book of John is book of divine creation or any of the books of the New Testament.

- To prove this, you framed your question as whether Allah enjoined Muslims to believe in the scriptures revealed before the Quran. To this I answered Yes. So this line of argument is not in contention.

- Now, you have gone ahead to approximate the book of John to revealed scripture before the Quran. To this, I have given credible evidence which you admit that clearly show that the book of John and NO BOOK OF THE NEW TESTAMENT WAS REVEALED TO THE JESUS . I say you admit this because you clearly stated that Christians in no way ever insinuated that book of John was revealed to Jesus. Or is that not correct?

- In other words, the Book of John ≠Revealed Books according to the Quran The above ideally closes that line of argument .

- A new line of argument was made around Quran 7:157. The substance of your point is that God made reference to the Gospel with the Christians and as such, he finds it reliable;

- This is dumb logic. Perhaps to put in better perspective, and situate it in the context of your argument, Did Allah tell Muslims to believe in the Injil he revealed/Sent to the Christians or the Injil with the Christians

- If you find one single piece of evidence from the Quran where Allah enjoins Muslims to believe in the Gospel with the Christains. My argument is deflated and you have your day. All other fishing around expedition you are doing would not save you. The question in the penultimate paragraph is a yes or no answer please

Truvelisback:
He felt that the two swords were enough perhaps He doesn't want it to look like they were going for war. He just wanted Moderation.

Truvelisback:
U said they should now protect themselve but not physically but they went everywhere with the swords. If the swords were not necessary for protection, they wouldn't have bought them. They needed them to protect and defend themselves but Jesus never wanted them to defend him because of His mission.

LegalWolf:
You cannot be smart by half:

QUESTION ONE

Your follow-up question is:

Actually, Allah told me that my name TenQ is written in one of the chapters of the Quran as one of the most dangerous antagonist to Mohammed. I believe you must have read about it because Jubril actually came to my room and squeezed me three times before relaying the words of Allah. Can you check carefully for my name BUT if you can't find it, that would be a confirmation that the Quran you have now is a FAKE Quran. The Uthmanic Quran definitely has TenQ written in one of the chapters.
Can you see your logic?

My response: Your argument relies on two faulty premises:

- That the name TenQ is in an alleged scripture is a proof in itself that the scripture is authentic
- That there is only one scripture everyone recognizes.

In short, your argument would be on solid ground if there is ONLY ONE rendition of that scripture in question. For example, there is no dispute as to when the Torah is mentioned, this is the exact book we are referring to . Everyone is clear on that as far as I can remember. Whether you are a Sephardi, Ashkenazi, Mizrahi etc', there is just one Torah. For Muslims, whether you are a Sunni, Shia, Ibadi, Quranist, just name it, reference to Quran as a scripture is universally accepted. We know exactly which book you are referring to!

But is that the case for Christianity? Are you telling me that when the word gospel is mentioned (which is the direct translation of Injil), this is the book we are talking about? Is it John, or Mark, or Revelation, or Pauline Epistles, or Acts ... which exactly are we talking about? Or is any of the 7 additional gospels in the Catholic Bible ? Or other books deemed aprocryphal by Protestants but used in Greek Orthodox. Which one exactly?

Quran 7:157 that you cited as a reminder is no proof actually to support your case and your personal challenge is not even a challenge to start with. I should look for proof in the book of Christians? THE QUESTION I KEEP ASKING WHICH YOU HAVE DELIBERATELY REFUSED TO ANSWER is; exactly which Christian are we talking about and which of their books are we talking about ?? Is it Catholic and their Bible? Protestant and their Bible? Greek Orthodox? Nestorian ? Which exactly? [/b] Or are you trying to tell me like that like Jews and Muslims, ALL Christians use just one Bible/gospel?

LegalWolf:
QUESTION TWO
1. Can you prove that the Scriptures Allah was referring to in the Quran had gone into extinction or Allah believed that the books were still with the Jews and Christians?
2. If the books were lost, why would Allah himself give the title "People of the Book" to Jews and Christians?

Can I proof that the Book Allah was referring to as gone into extinction? Just to be sure, what type of proof are you expecting me to bring? Is it papyrus roll or parchment you want me to find? What exact form of evidence do you want so let us start there. And on 2, this is funny. But just to avoid the allegation that I don't answer your questions, they are called people of the book because Moses and Jesus were given scriptures! Any question?

LegalWolf:
QUESTION THREE

Again, I see no proof in your evidence that supports the NT has the word of God. Remember, the overall goal of this exercise is not the Torah but the NT because you claim that that is a scripture Allah enjoined Muslims to believe. The focus my good friend is the New Testament.

Apart from that, from a moral perspective and not a religious one, that is a testament of the Prophet being an excellent human being and leader. He judged a Jew according to his own books/scriptures/laws and not the Quran. Logically speaking, is that not sensible to you?

As you say, there you have your answers!

BACK TO THE MAIN QUESTION, IS THE BOOK OF JOHN THE PRODUCT OF AN INTELLIGENT BEING?

LegalWolf:
Hey TenQ

This is actually a rejoinder to my previous post and you can treat both as a single post (and I apologize I mentioned you twice). I woke up quiet early this morning to deal with some office work in preparation for a trial. Depending on when the case is called, I may not have time to respond on time to your question (although I may be in court and still checking Nairaland... particularly I always await your response . It is a past time for me).

I just did a quick search on my Quran and it would seem to me that OUR ALMIGHTY Allah (the most glorified, the most high) only used the reference 'maktooban indahum fi taura wal-injil' in that Quran 7:157 alone. Roughly translating the first section of that verse, is '... the illiterate prophet whom they find written (not named as that has a different meaning. As you can tell, maktooban is derived from the verb Maktoob which literally means 'write') in the Taura and Injil with them . Again, the key point here is WITH THEM!!!!!!!!!!!! TenQ in case you cannot read well, the emphasis is THE TAORAH AND INJIL WITH THEM .

Now, as you have cited severally, the Quran often referenced the Taorah and Injil as a book revealed to Moses and Jesus respectively. You have previously provided the reference but should I cite more? Almost every single time that the Taurah and Injil is mentioned, it is in the context of books either sent or revealed to the respective prophet. So how come this is different?

The only logical proposition this verse can support is that God is telling people like you TenQ that even the book with you, the unlettered prophet is written (about). I want to use direct literal translation as possible as I understand the problem of language quite clearly (remember, the hoax called NT is in Greek not Aramaic or Hebrew ). The emphasis is in the book with you and NOT the book I revealed to Jesus with you? If that were the case, that would have undoubtedly made your case. But this Q5;157 in no way lends credence to the assertion that the book with you is the book the Almighty revealed to Jesus . This is dumb logic TenQ and I expect you to be smarter than that..

Based on the above, Muslims are logically correct to cite the book of John (as a dubious book with Christians) that Prophet is written/mentioned. But we cannot accept the proposition that this book of John or any of the gospel is the one revealed by Allah to Jesus.

JUDGE

'Counsel TenQ, do you have any objection to either the premise or conclusion LegalWolf drew in the above'?

Catch you later !

whom they find written (not named as that has a different meaning. As you can tell,

Truvelisback:
Steep, TenQ, what do u have to say abt this?

LegalWolf:
Loooool, it's quite unfortunate that I don't know how to clearly segregate post on Nairaland so I can respond exactly in the same format you did. But to avoid confusion. I will respond to your rebuttals in paragraphs.

REBUTTAL 1

To start with. You made allegations which I rebutted by explaining that the Gospel was not revealed to Jesus as the Quran clearly stated. That explanation has not been contradicted as we speak. SHOULD I TAKE THAT AS AN ADMISSION ?
a. You said and I quote
'Can you find me Islamic/Muslim Sources that EMPHATICALLY DENY that Muhammad is Prophesied by Jesus from the book of John. Failure to find examples is a prove that you lie with your answer"

Looool, your attempt to spin logic will fail. You are the one alleging that Islamic Sources claims the prophet is prophesied in the Book of John not me. So it is you to prove that no islamic source emphatically deny that.... Telling me to look for sources to back up your allegation is, with due respect, nonsensical. It adds nothing to my line of argument.

b. You cited Q7: 157 and alleged '...Mohammed's name is found written in the books of the Jews and Christians" Is that what the verse said? You have been the one copying translated verses in your previous posts, why don't you copy and paste a translated verse then let's discuss your version.

Perhaps, the question should have been - how many books do the Christians have to start with? [b] Or put it differently, [b] is the NT as a compedium or specifically the Book of John as an independent canon been the traditional rendition of the Bible from time immemorial? [b] Or are you trying to tell me than 1800 years ago, when the Bible is mentioned, [b] what comes to mind is the 27 canon compedium that we have today??

c. See my comments above. Christians are not even united in what book constitutes the bible to start with!!!!!!!!! Some canons deemed aprocryphal in protestant churches are canonical by the Catholic. So if you cannot even agree on, and unsure of, the most fundamental book of your religion, why claim that the Prophet is not referenced by the Injil... and which gospel are we talking about?

Your last two comments - the same way you cite the Quran as evidence acceptable to me is the same way that they cite the Bible as evidence acceptable to you.

LegalWolf:
REBUTTAL TWO

All your explanation here is hogwash and yhwh's wahala. Since you are the one making the Quran as our basis for the Bible, bring evidence that the current NT was revealed to Jesus or any of the alleged disciples is a prophet according to the Quran u cited. In the absence of that, you have no case!

LegalWolf:
REBUTTAL THREE.
Still off-point. Are you confusing the topic of abrogation with the question of the NT being a dubiously forged propaganda book?

LegalWolf:
Like I promised, this is my second post dedicated to answering three questions you asked. For clarity, you numbered it one to three so my response will be titled Response 1,2 and 3 corresponding to each of the issues you raised above. We should bear in mind that the ultimate aim you tried to show in the above post is that the book of John (and in extension the entirety of the NT) is a product of a divine being. Just put that at the back of your mind. Lets start the systematic annihilation of TenQ aregument... shall we

LegalWolf:
RESPONSE ONE

My simple answer is that: I do not confirm or deny that Muslims have proved through the book of John that the prophet (pbuh)would come after Jesus. .

But for the sake of this argument, I will agree that some Muslims have tried to prove that who Jesus was referring to that would come after him was the prophet. HOWEVER, that does not in itself expressly mean that they accept the Book of John and the NT as the word of God. Very far from it.

It is ironic that those Muslims do exactly what you are trying to do here in your question two above. [b] I asked you whether the book of John is a product of a divine being and your response was citing Quranic verses to show that Allah implores Muslims to believe in the Scriptures revealed before the Quran. The key point here is that [b] YOU WERE CITING QURANIC VERSES to support your claim.

Now if I ask you, do you believe that the Quran is the word of God? I am near certain that your answer would be an emphatic NO. So in short, they did exactly what you did here. Or not to appear jumping the gun, so that the argument will be flawless, do you believe the Quran to be the word of God?

Did Allah implores Muslims to believe in the scriptures revealed before the Qur'an ?
Al-Baqarah 2:4
وَٱلَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِٱلْءَاخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ
Surat-ul Baqara (2):136
Say ye: "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) the prophets from their Lord; We make no difference between one and another of them.

Surat-ul Baqara (2):285
The Apostle (prophet) believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles.

Surat-un Nisaa (4):136
O ye who believe! Believe in God, and His apostle, and the scripture which He sent to His apostle, and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth God, His angels, His Books, His apostles, and the Day of Judgment hath gone far, far astray.

LegalWolf:
RESPONSE TWO

To demonstrate that your bible is unsalvageable and the superiority of our logic, I will confine myself to the three quotes of the Noble Quran you referenced. This ought not to make the post overly long and unwieldy. Now, the Simple answer is: Yes Allah (SWT) implores Muslims to believe in scriptures revealed before Quran. However, NONE OF THOSE SCRIPTURES IN QUESTION IS THE NEW TESTAMENT AS WE HAVE IT TODAY .

Let me break it down for you according to the references you cited.

Q2:285

Just a side note, I am uncomfortable with the translation of 'Rasul' as apostle. I will prefer the direct meaning which is messenger or allegorical meaning which is prophet. That is just by the way. But the key point here is that the verse says and I reproduced the translation according to you as follows:

...and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus , and that given to (all) the prophets from their Lord... . The key question to consider in the context of this verse is whether the 27 canon NT is the revelation given to Jesus or the prophets from their Lord?

Apparently, and even going by Church tradition, the book of John was not revealed to start with. And even if it was revealed, it was not to Jesus but allegedly to John the son of Zebedee. Same thing with the other three Synoptic Gospels (Mark, Matthew and Luke) which were authored by apostles of Jesus and not him. Apart from these four, none of the other cannons was credited to Jesus.

Now the story would have been different if the disciples that these cannons were accredited to were prophets in Islam as the last part of the verse says ... 'prophets from their Lord'. But the Quran does not recognize any of the alleged writers/authors of the 27 cannons to be prophet. Starting from Matthew to John (alleged writer of the last book of revelation). Or does the Quran recognize any of these authors as prophets?

Q2:285

All this verse says is that we should believe in Allah's books. But the previous verse has irrefutably showed us that the NT cannot be Allah's book as it was not revealed to Jesus. How can these books be revelation to Jesus when Christian tradition is unanimous that these books were authored by his disciple not him?

Q4:136
..Believe in God, and His apostle, and the scripture which He sent to His apostle, and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). .

Again, the Quran is consistent that we should believe in the scripture sent to the prophet and those before him? DOES ANY OF THE FOUR CANONICAL BIBLE CLAIM TO HAVE BEEN REVEALED TO JESUS? If so, point it out to me?

Now compared to the Torah which Jews believed to be revealed to Moses. Rabbinic tradition [consistent amongst ashkinazim, sephardim and mizrahim] attributes Torah to Moses and not his disciples. So, if any one would even make any comment as to the Books of God mentioned in the Quran, it should be Jews and Not Christians.

LegalWolf:
RESPONSE THREE

What exactly is the purpose of this question as I cannot see any link with demonstrating how the book of John or the NT is a word of God.

SUMMARY OF MY POINT
- You were right in pointing that Allah said we should believe in scriptures revealed before the Quran.
- Even from the phrasing of your question 2, the key word here is revealed before the Quran.
- You attempt to show that NT is a book revealed before the Quran and thus is God's words.
- But that is a faulty premise. Unlike the Torah to Moses, the NT does not claim to be revealed by God to Jesus.
- Moreso, Christian tradition attributes the authorship of each of the Canon of the NT to people other than Jesus.
- These people are not prophets according to the Quran
- In conclusion, these 27 book canon of the NT cannot be a scripture the Quran is telling us to believe in!

Consequently, until you can show that:
(a) each and every book of the NT is revealed to Jesus just like the Torah was revealed to Moses; or

(b) that those attributed to writing the NT such as our beloved apostles are recognized in the Quran as 'rasul' or 'prophets/messengers',

Then you have failed to show that the NT is not a Book of God in Islam. CAN YOU SHOW THAT?

LegalWolf:
I hope you can read. I told you I will break my post into two and do justice to the three questions in my second post. So why are you scared . It took me a while because I had to quickly review an application. Now I am back and let me do justice to your question. At least, I have irrefutable showed on post 1 that I did not deliberately avoid your question as you charged. If you think otherwise, can you please fault any premise or conclusion of mine in that post?

LegalWolf:
TenQ I am back like I never left. And I know you must have missed me because I missed you too. I enjoy conversing with you (not specifically you but all Christian apologists in general) and I will deal with your questions now. From what I can tell by your post, you basically:

1. charged me for deliberately avoiding your questions; and

2. tried to prove that the book of John is a product of a divine being by citing Quranic reference (which if I get your drift correctly, confirms that the gospel according to John and the entire NT belongs to that class of scripture that Allah (SWT) enjoins Muslims to believe). Please correct me if I am wrong.

I will split my response into two, specifically answering 1 now and dealing with 2 in a separate post to follow (also quoting the above post). Invariably, you will get two mentions BUT the post to follow is a continuation of our engagement. My response to 1 is reproduced below:

The short answer is that I did not deliberately avoid answering your question. The key points we should bear in mind is that:

- You tagged me to explain the Trinity of Jesus in Islam. This is your question which you wanted me to provide a response to and the crux of our conversation.

- On prodding you as to why you expect an answer from me, you said that you do not HONESTLY and TRUTHFULLY believe that a Muslim can offer an explanation. In fact, you went ahead to tell me that the key words were 'honestly' and 'truthfully'...

- Any reasonable person will come to the conclusion that your mind is made up (which I pointed out to you). So I kept pressing that if your mind is made up that no Muslim can tell honestly and truthfully explain the trinity of Jesus in Islam, why were you asking me to provide an explanation?

- The response you provided was this '...because Muslims usually memorize things without asking Questions NOR Comprehending implications with respect to their Claims, Your attempts to explain my questions will FORCE you to SLOW DOWN to THINK and REASON!

- Only two logical implications could be deduced from your response since you do not believe any Muslim can honestly and truthfully explain the question. (a) either the explanation you want to elicit from me is for MY OWN BENEFIT so I can slow down, think and reason while answering you or (b) my explanation is for the benefit of OTHER MUSLIMS .

- In any event, my explanation is IRRELEVANT TO YOU as YOU DO NOT BELIEVE THAT A MUSLIM CAN HONESTLY AND TRUTHFULLY explain the trinity of Jesus in Islam.

- Now, if giving an explanation is for my benefit, I have considered this question and have read a very similar argument ago here (https://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/q_confirms_t1.html). I have an explanation which accords with common sense. So, apparently there is no need to give an explanation to myself on what I fully understand.

- However, if giving an explanation is for the benefit of other Muslims, No MUSLIM has told me on this forum to provide an explanation.

- In short, giving an explanation to you is irrelevant as you would not believe it no matter what I say. I have an explanation which is reasonable to me and No Muslim has asked me to give an explanation to them. Therefore, there is NO REASON TO OFFER AN EXPLANATION WHATSOEVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As you always say, here you have your answer. I will now proceed to the crux of the matter in my next post - rebutting every single argument of yours.

TenQ:
Firstly,it is on record that you DELIBERATELY avoided answering my Questions. But in your warped sense, you think you have any right to ask me questions!?
SMH!

But, I'm not like you in anyway!

You are asking if the book of John is the product of a Devine Being.

Let me tell you.
1. Is it true that From the book of John 14:16, John 14:26, John15:26 and John 16:7 you Muslims have tried to prove that Mohammed is the "Person Jesus spoke of as coming after Him" ?
If you need references, I can find you several examples!

2. Did Allah implores Muslims to believe in the scriptures revealed before the Qur'an ?
Al-Baqarah 2:4
وَٱلَّذِينَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِمَآ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ وَمَآ أُنزِلَ مِن قَبْلِكَ وَبِٱلْءَاخِرَةِ هُمْ يُوقِنُونَ
Surat-ul Baqara (2):136
Say ye: "We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) the prophets from their Lord; We make no difference between one and another of them.

Surat-ul Baqara (2):285
The Apostle (prophet) believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in God, His angels, His books, and His apostles.

Surat-un Nisaa (4):136
O ye who believe! Believe in God, and His apostle, and the scripture which He sent to His apostle, and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth God, His angels, His Books, His apostles, and the Day of Judgment hath gone far, far astray.


3. Did your prophet Muhammad make judgement of stoning an adulteress by asking the Jews to refer to the Torah (remember when a Jew covered the word stoning in the Torah...LOL!)?
If you need reference from your hadiths I will oblige you!

So here you have your answer!

LegalWolf:
Lol, I don’t envy position at all. The simple answer to your question is I’m here to help you reach the Truth as well. Why don’t you wait let me give you a response to your question on the appropriate section so I don’t get banned too.

THE BELOW IS MY RESPONSE TO THIS POST AND PLEASE DONT RESPOND ON THIS SECTION. I WILL ANSWER YOUR PRIMARY QUESTION AT THE APPROPRIATE SECTION

And that reminds me, our journeys may be similar but route different. I have read the Bible and at a point, I believed it to be a word of God. Christians tried to convince me that Jesus is the only way, the truth and the life and no one comes through God except him. I read Sam Shamoun and almost every article on Answering Islam vigorously. I even follow him on one of his social media accounts!)

But when I started digging further, I discovered this cannot be logically correct. Unless proved otherwise, in my opinion, the NT may not be a product of divine creation. Even as far back as the third century, many Church leaders doubted the authenticity of certain books that are now canonical in the bible.

At present, there is overwhelming evidence that some of these books were forged and a “propaganda” to respond to heretical sects. Don’t worry, I will cite evidence of people who read the original manuscripts and are masters of Greek and Latin to back up my claims and the onus will lie on you to disprove them.

You will agree with me that if a foundation (i.e., NT) is faulty, the house built on it cannot stand. Wouldn’t you?

LegalWolf:
THE BELOW IS MY RESPONSE TO THIS POST AND PLEASE DONT RESPOND ON THIS SECTION. I WILL ANSWER YOUR PRIMARY QUESTION AT THE APPROPRIATE SECTION

HonNL:
Update after the attack on Rushdie, author of the Satanic Verses, on August 12.



SOURCE

Interview from the suspect

https://apnews.com/article/salman-rushdie-middle-east-iran-new-york-2aaf7c8fdc459c664173beb4dc0a9ef5

Previous Threads:
https://www.nairaland.com/7278191/salman-rushdie-author-satanic-verses/8

https://www.nairaland.com/7279074/salman-rushdie-ventilator-liver-damaged#115655247

NNTR:
Luke 11:52
'Woe to you lawyers,
because you have taken away the key to knowledge (scriptural truth).
You yourselves did not enter, and you held back those who were entering
[by your flawed interpretation of God’s word and your man-made tradition].”'

You're in good company, not among foes, if you have a disdain for the legal profession, just as our Lord and Saviour of the whole wide world does and tells what sorrow, terrible things and trouble awaits lawyers

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

NNTR:
LegalWolf indeed. Are you minding the court jester, pardon the pun, pathetically behaving like the boy who cried wolf, telling lies made up from fabricated stories

I remember before he got debilitated and incapacitated, Deedat back in the day, huffing and puffing upandan the whole place, threatening to blow houses in, as just like the big bad wolf in ''The Story of the Three Little Pigs' from Aesop's Fables''

_{Personal text: Jesus is not a theologian. He is God who told stories.}

taylor88:
Yorubas are busy forming alliance with North wey no send their Papa


Yoruba dey form by force Unity with Hausas and Fulanis wey wan kill them at average opportunity


Hausas will reach Tinubu how to play Politics outside Lagos


After 2023 Yorubas won’t have no option than to demand for Oduduwa Republic


And we SS/SE no go gree them to go

We must die for one Nigeria

LegalWolf:
Hey TenQ

The other day you were banned from a topic, I had my doubts because you could still reply me on a different topic. But now, Nairaland mods have kicked my ass as I cannot even reply on any religious thread whatsoever. My suspicion is that NNTR reported me because we were both having a conversation very early this morning. And to the mod that banned, I am sure he did not finish school as he cannot tell the difference between some christians and all christians...

Don't worry. Ina zuwa and I will provide a solid response to your post (and I hope the ban doesn't exceed 24 hours like yours).

Bye till then

samae:
ALL BROILERS ARE NOT THE SAME OHH, ONE IS MORE SUITABLE TO SELL AT 4WEEKS, ONE IS STRONGER AGAINST COLD, ONE IS STRONGER AGAINST HEAT AND ONE GROWS TALLER THAN OTHERS.

They can stay up to 12 weeks before you can start marketing to sell them.

xproducer:
+++

Indeed... yet ultimately when CHRIST returns to create new Heavens and a new Earth and eradicate his enemies - all will confess the truth - GOD has declared it so it will happen!

"And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power" - 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." - Revelation 20:10

"I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear." - Isaiah 45:23

"That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." - Philippians 2:10-12

LegalWolf:
My man. God bless you abundantly! I am also having an interesting conversation with this guy called TenQ and I can’t wait to see the terminus of his intellect.

Quite a lot of Christians are deranged lunat1cs aswear!

LegalWolf:
Lol, the English people have a saying that there are more than one ways to skin a cat

I’m going to abandon that line of questioning for a more interesting one (but would let you know exactly what I was trying to extract from you later…. Fi okan bale for now…Ka gane ?)

Now, you quoted my so much beloved book of John to admonish me to know the truth. This according to you would set me free…. are you in any way implying that John 8:32 and the entire book of John is a product of a divine being which I should have faith in ?

LegalWolf:
Lol, TenQ I enjoy engaging with you walahi. Okay, let me take your paraphrased statement.

You relied on a premise that “ … Muslims usually memorize things without Asking Question or comprehending implications of their claim”. It is on this premise you draw the conclusion that you want me to slow down, think and reason. Am I correct? So if your premise is flawed, most certainly your conclusion will be over the roof.

Now the question is: is the bolded a statement of fact or just a mere opinion of yours?

LegalWolf:
Now that we are getting clarity as to which is your response, the whole issue is fully in sight. With due respect, you did not answer my question.

My question has nothing to do with whether Muslims memorize things or not fulling grasping issue of our claims.

In fact, you were the one who called me to explain the Trinity of Jesus in the Quran. And I asked why, why do I owe you an explanation …then your response was something along the line that:

1. Muslim cannot HONESTLY and TRUTHFULLY defend/explain the Trinity of Jesus; and

2. Muslims would rather KEEP QUIET or
LEAVE islam.

On the second part, I’ll take you on that later. But on number 1, I have asked you that if you believe that Muslims cannot HONESTLY and TRUTHFULLY answer a question, why do you want me (a full-blooded wholly Muslim) to answer it?

In response to that, you have said you only asked when you see contradictions… (I SUPPOSE MY SYNOPSIS IS RIGHT UP TO THIS POINT?)

BUT if you have questions with a source, and you assert that none can TRUTHFULLY and HONESTLY answer the question, then why do you ask…Simply put, what exactly is the purpose of you asking the question when your mind is made up ?

LegalWolf:
Very good you identified that I actually respond to mentions and not the questions therein. But the other part you didn’t state is that I asked you whether we was into debate or an inquisition which you did not respond to. Or did you?

Now, to the point in contention, and not to get it confused, are you saying that my question reproduced below:

LegalWolf: If you believe that no Muslim can HONESTLY and TRUTHFULLY defend a point, why would you want an explanation from me?

This is your answer?

TenQ: Your attempts to explain my questions will FORCE you to THINK and REASON!
Why would Allah legalise prostitution in the Qur'an?
How did Mohammed mix up Shaitan and Jubril?

As far as I can tell, this is the place you highlighted in red and which you claim to be your response. Am I correct?

Example:
Can you please honestly translate this Arabic sentence?

إِنَّ عيسى وَمَلَـٰۤىِٕكَتَهُۥ یُصَلُّونَ عَلَى ٱلنَّبِیِّۚ یَـٰۤأَیُّهَا ٱلَّذِینَ ءَامَنُوا۟ صَلُّوا۟ عَلَیۡهِ وَسَلِّمُوا۟ تَسۡلِیمًا ۝٥

What does it say?

Ajeeb:
I can see where the issues are...

1. You don't interpret Al-Qur'an with ordinary translation alone.
2. Check the word MasiihU, it's written
MasiihA, which means it's one of the objects i.e one of what they worship
3. If it happens to go by they should worship him instead, it will be MasiihiI, because you can see "min duuni Allaah...."


As someone that understands Arabic language better to interpret it for you

LegalWolf:
Lol, easy man. To the best of my knowledge, I respond to your mentions. I don’t shy away from it by springing up new issues.

Just to be sure, you claimed you answered my question. I’m not sure I did see your answer. So can you post your answer in response to this mention please. (Don Allah, no need of repeating your previous questions)

TenQ:
The problem with Islam is that ALL your books are sufficient to destroyed the very foundation of Islam without a need to step out one bit into secular or historical sources.

Qur'an:
-The sun set in the dark murky waters.
-Children created from the semen from the backbone and ribcage of the humans.
-Hail hauled from mountains in the sky etc etc
-Allah legalised Prostitution

Allah should at least know basic science

Hadiths:
The embarrassment here is so much that Muslims grade the hadiths as Sahih, Hassan, Daif etc
Some Muslims even call themselves "Qur'an Only".
Muslims have to cherry pick their own hadiths


Tafsirs:
Attempts to lie to get out of problems created by both the Qur'an and the hadiths. Some of them are also so damning that Muslims reject them.

Muslim Standard Narratives:
Lies Muslims have memorised to cover-up the lies and deficiencies of Islam
-Mohammed is the most perfect human to be emulated (and this prophet coveted his adopted sons. Wife)!
-there is only one Qur'an and it is perfectly preserved - Now, we see the Hafs Qur'an, the Warsh Qur'an, and at least 24 other Qurans)
-Pure monotheistic religion and yet they kiss the black stone


Oga lawyer, your violent characters and your books are enough to discredit Islam.


Summary:
Muslims can lie even for Shaitan! It's your nature to lie and be violent. Your hadiths is a prove of this nature of yours.

YOUR QUESTION
Your attempts to explain my questions will FORCE you to THINK and REASON!
Why would Allah legalise prostitution in the Qur'an?
How did Mohammed mix up Shaitan and Jubril?


What you do as the effect of reasoning is a different matter entirely.

LegalWolf:
Lol, easy man. To the best of my knowledge, I respond to your mentions. I don’t shy away from it by springing up new issues.

Just to be sure, you claimed you answered my question. I’m not sure I did see your answer. So can you post your answer in response to this mention please. (Don Allah, no need of repeating your previous questions)

TenQ:
The problem with Islam is that ALL your books are sufficient to destroyed the very foundation of Islam without a need to step out one bit into secular or historical sources.

Qur'an:
-The sun set in the dark murky waters.
-Children created from the semen from the backbone and ribcage of the humans.
-Hail hauled from mountains in the sky etc etc
-Allah legalised Prostitution

Allah should at least know basic science

Hadiths:
The embarrassment here is so much that Muslims grade the hadiths as Sahih, Hassan, Daif etc
Some Muslims even call themselves "Qur'an Only".
Muslims have to cherry pick their own hadiths


Tafsirs:
Attempts to lie to get out of problems created by both the Qur'an and the hadiths. Some of them are also so damning that Muslims reject them.

Muslim Standard Narratives:
Lies Muslims have memorised to cover-up the lies and deficiencies of Islam
-Mohammed is the most perfect human to be emulated (and this prophet coveted his adopted sons. Wife)!
-there is only one Qur'an and it is perfectly preserved - Now, we see the Hafs Qur'an, the Warsh Qur'an, and at least 24 other Qurans)
-Pure monotheistic religion and yet they kiss the black stone


Oga lawyer, your violent characters and your books are enough to discredit Islam.


Summary:
Muslims can lie even for Shaitan! It's your nature to lie and be violent. Your hadiths is a prove of this nature of yours.

YOUR QUESTION
Your attempts to explain my questions will FORCE you to THINK and REASON!
Why would Allah legalise prostitution in the Qur'an?
How did Mohammed mix up Shaitan and Jubril?


What you do as the effect of reasoning is a different matter entirely.

Lawag3:
You Moslems think we view the trinity as 1+1+1=1 no we don't rather it's 1×1×1=1 this maths explains the trinity

jubrilcastle:
I definitely know it will result to insult right from the on set. If you go back to my first post I told you I hardly go into dialogue with other belief system.
Since I'm been no downgraded to a kindergarten I see no reason going back and forth with all these. Cos it will never stop. From every of my answer different questions kept popping up. Since your religion is most perfect please continue. Thanks

LegalWolf:
Lol. I said it. I so much love engaging Christian apologists. Like it’s one of my favourite past time. You went ahead to deflect and wiggle around the question I asked you.
Typical of sixfiguresmart and your ilks, including your mentor Sam Shamoun. All you said is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT TO THE QUESTION I ASKED YOU.

LegalWolf:
Let me explain it in very simple terms. Remember our old atheist friend. He was told about Christianity and he decided to read the Bible. The first chapter, not the second or third but the very first chapter of the bible - Book of Genesis - contains a story of creation that betrays historical, archeological and genomics evidence.

As such, he has claimed that he does not HONESTLY and TRUTHFULLY believe that it is a word of an intelligent being and he doesn’t believe any Christian can defend it. That is his assertion. Not just that, he has come to ask you for an explanation of the creation story following his assertion.

Now the question is: Is it far fetched if your ask him the question below (paraphrasing exactly the question I asked you).

if you believe that no Christian can HONESTLY and truthfully defend the creation story, why would you want an explanation from me?

jubrilcastle:
Can a soul die? Let's say if someone is dead is the soul also dead?
How about a spirit?