₦airaland Forum

please be realistic here.

With all the shouting of Obasanjo's name everywhere, when did he ever get treated in this manner?

Wasnt he travelling everywhere with Nigerians laying out the red carpet even before his arrival?

As it is, I'm just wondering if maybe Yaradua didnt "settle" some longerthroats abroad, hence the animosity.

make i hear word.

Big B1:
Question:
How come these same protesters haven't gone to one of  Iboris's houses in London to also display their dissatisfaction?
They can also visit various houses of these politicians (Alams, Lucky Igb, Kalu and many many more) in Nigeria as well.

am also wondering too.

I understand why she doesnt get it.


hmmm. I fear for so many black youths and their version of reality.  This is why ignorance in role models shouldnt be celebrated. White youths are far less likely to have this kind of problem.

SeanT21:
Maybe they just do not want him in their country. So because he is the president of Nigeria they should bend down and kiss his feet. Not all president are welcomed in foreign countries. Just because he is a Nigerian does not make it a big deal. Where are all the Nigerians that live in London? Where were they when he visited? Why did the Nigerians that live in London not welcome him?

look, if you don't get it, too bad.

seems you're not familiar with the concept.

In my explanation, did I say Nigerian president, or did I say office of president.

Please educate yourself.

SeanT21:
My Question is still not answered. Yall get mad when they protest againts him?

Why should they respect him?
What has he done for them?

its not about what he's done to gain respect.


The president and members of cabinet of any nation, are treated with a basic level of courtesy both at home and especially during foreign trips abroad, regardless any negative thing anyone can think of.

Is all this stuff not included in high school citizenship/social studies classes?

The respect is for the office, not just the person in the office. The office represents the nation, and once you disrespect that, you are showing what you think of that nation and its citizens. Thats why if the story is true, then these people arent helping themselves. Neither is the British police showing any respect for the people he represents, by failing to provide him with proper protection.

the house is very nice. I like the innovative design.

they should keep on fooling themselves.

After Yaradua has returned to Nigeria, wont it be them, the British police, the knife wielding youths, and their usual rat race.

So disrespectful yet they'll complain when the people observing them treat them the same way.

and why did the British police find it difficult to maintain control of the crowd? Would they have allowed that with George Bush?

pipsguru:
What's the fuss all about? For a church as big and vibrant as the redeemed christian church of God, getting a jet is a bit late by moi. I know many of you feeling negative about this are talking from your level and perspective.

Wake up guys, if Adeboye is to be effective at his level and be efficient at what he does, it stands to reason that he needs a jet or two. The purpose of the jet is transportation at a pace that will multiply his outreach. With a jet, do you know that it is possible for adeboye to visit churches in different states and country on the same day?

When you get to the zenith of your career and calling, you will understand that time means a lot to you more than the guy rungs below you. Do you know that transportation is one of the greatest costraints a man like adeboye will be facing at this level of his work. Can you imagine the number of invitation that he has turned down for purely logistic reason? With a private jet, he can visit lagos, abuja, jos, sokoto in one sunday and preach in two different churches in each state.

Were Jesus to come in 2008, you might as well guee what his mode of transportation would be. Jesus in his day travelled with the best modes of transportation - a private boat. The boat could probably be his as there is no record of others in the boat with him beside his disciples.

Charity is the opium of the poor, so spare me. Charity has never eased, but rather aggravated poverty. Just take a trip to African nations with soup kitchens, and you will be shocked at the type of human beings that so called charity programs are churnig out. Besides, any serious christian that practices his faith should not be a charity case. You have to be uninformed, proud and lazy to depend on charity in a country like ours.

Skilled artisanship is a lost vocation, looming global food crisis will churn out millionaire farmers, and you are talking of charity?

are you for real?

you really feel all this stuff you typed constitutes validity?

and when did charity replace religion as the opium of the masses? I'm not even a marxist but are Nigerians not a good example of this saying?

na wa oh.

Everybody "believing God" for a $20 million jet that they'll never see the inside of even in fifty years.

Religious zealotry sha. Or is it gospel gansterism as someone described himself.

I wonder how many of you are "believing God" for the beggars on the streets of lagos, or the gutter sniffers up in the north, to also have the testimony of wealth as you preach it.


hmmm so many fire and brimstone touch not my anointed almajiris .

skyone, I don't have your time yet. So keep on fumbling there.

skyone:
What's your understanding of mediocrity in context to this discussion

skyone:
@Davidlan and other mediocres


Try seeing things beyond your nose before exposing your level of ignorance on a forum like this. This man of God serves God with complete humility and sincererity.

Now do you know how it all started in RCCG, dO you know where the ministry is heading to, do know how much that
has been spent on charity and still on going, do you know what impact has this mighty ministry played in the academic
standard in Nigeria and the rest of the world, now what do u really know about RCCG AND PASTOR ADEBOYE i'm sure nothing but u can increase your strength and criticise,  wierd and sad.

Has any of you openly criticise his/her local councillor for embezzling constituency finance not to talk of your state governor, i'm sure you dare not. But u guys can amazingly slander a man of GOD within a blink of an eye without thinking  about it. Please let's think and reason well, churches are not the cause of poverty in Nigeria rather they are doing their best to end poverty, please lets think and look before we leap before endagering ourself with the wrath of ALMIGHTY GOD YAWEH.


PART OF THE PROBLEM OF NIGERIA IS MANY CITIZEN CANNOT THINK THEIR WAY FROM POVERTY. REMEMBER IT IS WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF JOHN 14:14 if ye ask anything in my name i will do it. IT MEANS BY FAITH YOU CAN BUY YOUR PASTOR A JET WHEN GOD HAS FINISHED BLESSING YOU.

just showing you how shallow you are.

What's your own understanding of mediocre?

Am sure you wouldnt consider me or anyone here mediocre if you felt one of us has a $20 million jet.

So how can citizens think their way from poverty if they're constantly being told its more important to make the clergy richer, than it is for them to develop self sustaining abilities? With all the religiousity in Nigeria, shouldnt church attendees have thought their way out of poverty by now?  Do they lack faith or what are they doing wrong?

teetee2:
Fash is really trying but we lagosian need to change our attitude, some of us would eat gala, drink wotsover and throw throu window.  Public buses should be implored to put thrash can inside their vehicles to avoid this habit, at least this would save our drainage from blockage. Let us preach sanity from this forum to make Lagos a 'Mega City' and appreciate Fashola for the spirit of boldness to make market women stay away from the road, those women don't value their life especially Oshodi.

thank you oh.

people are now mediocres because they can't afford to buy a $20 million jet or what?

Is your bank account now the measure of spirituality?

some links to similar issues:

Rev. Creflo Dollar Sells His Rolls Royce

http://www.bet.com/News/NewsArticleCrefloDollarRollsRoyce.htm?mb=1

Rev. Creflo Dollar Sells His Rolls Royce | News | BET.com

Posted Jan. 21, 2008 – The Rev. Creflo Dollar, the TV preacher whose Bling Dynasty is being probed by a ranking US. Senator, says that he has sold his $280,000 Rolls-Royce and donated the money to his children’s ministry.


“If you want good news, I sold the Rolls Royce and donated the money to our children’s ministry,” the Atlanta-area minister told ABC’s Nightline TV news magazine. “But I didn’t sell the Rolls Royce to please everybody … because there’s nothing wrong with having a car that members of church bought for me.”

Dollar, along with several other televangelists who preach the gospel of prosperity, said that he has spent his own personal wealth purchasing 100 cars for elderly and single mothers, and that he has bought houses for people. And, regarding his large estate in Atlanta and his $2.4 million apartment in New York, Dollar says that those purchases have nothing to do with the $69 million his church brought in last year. They were bought with the money he earns from his many private business deals, he said.

As for the private jet, he says he needs it, like a carpenter needs a hammer, as a tool to carry out God’s work. And for anyone who thinks being a Christian means you need to pledge to a life of poverty, they need to go back and read the Bible, he says.

"I say pick the Bible up and read it for yourself," he told Nightline. "And as you begin to read it, you'll go through the entire Bible and find out that Abraham, the Bible says, was rich. Isaac and Jacob was rich. Joseph was rich. Solomon was one of the richest people in the world. These were all servants of God. Well, why in the world would God allow his son to come and not be at least to the level of those servants?"

Not everybody agrees, including the Rev. Dr. Joseph Hough, president of Union Theological Seminary in New York .

"This claim that Creflo Dollar makes that Jesus was rich is so ludicrous as to hardly bear examination," he said. “All of the people who followed Jesus were poor people …. Ninety-five percent of the people who lived in the culture that Jesus was part of were very poor people. It is wrong to make people believe that if they follow a certain formula, that God somehow is going to transform their circumstances."

Pastor leaves $800K richer

http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23263651-3102,00.html


PROSPEROUS pastor Benny Hinn flew into Brisbane a multimillionaire. He left, 28 hours and three shows later, an estimated $800,000 richer.

The Queensland capital was a goldmine for the flamboyant televangelist who left with cash, cheques and the bank account and credit card details of more than 50,000 Australians fans.
Some attendees, who travelled from as far away as Hong Kong and Perth, handed over gold earrings and wedding rings instead of cash.

An Australian Taxation Office spokeswoman said Pastor Hinn's Australian haul – part of an estimated $110 million donated to the World Healing Centre Church each year – was seen as a "love offering".

"The tax office is unable to comment on individual tax matters," the spokeswoman said.

"However gifts received by churches aren't usually tax-exempt unless they're given in a personal capacity. It's a very complicated issue."

An Australian Customs Service spokeswoman said Pastor Hinn's visa allowed him to leave the country two hours after his 3pm show on February 16.

He travelled aboard his $36 million Gulfstream jet to Auckland, part of a 27-stop world tour expected to generate more than $10 million.

The 105,000 Australians who attended Pastor Hinn's shows in 1998 were believed to have donated more than $1 million.

Brisbane attendees at his February 15 and 16 shows were urged to give as much as $10,000 each.

Conservative estimates place the Australian donations, minus merchandise sales, at $800,000.

Pastor Hinn says he is accountable to God and authorities which oversee not-for-profit organisations.

But on November 6, the US Senate Committee on Finance announced he would be investigated.

Senator Chuck Grassley said he believed Hinn, and other wealthy pastors, had experienced personal gain through tax-exempt work.

It was believed Pastor Hinn had profited from financial donations.

If even in rich western countries there's an outcry over billionaire churches and pastors, how much more Nigeria with the rampant poverty and discouragement everywhere?

Am I making sense here?

Affluent pastors use wealth differently: Some give back; others buy yachts

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1869498/posts


DALLAS (ABP) -- There's a rare breed of creature often spotted in exotic locations leading a large pack. No, it’s not a yellow-tailed wooly monkey. It’s a wealthy pastor, and its very existence is controversial.

Success in many professions is expected to bring riches. With pastors, however, luxurious lifestyles are traditionally frowned upon. Some people have a hard time listening to sermons against greed and false idols from a pastor wearing a Rolex and a new Armani suit.

Nonetheless, the wealthy pastor is not an endangered species; the growth of megachurches, big book deals and media stardom have increased their number in recent years.

“Church size translates directly into market power,” said a Duke University study on the topic. “To attract entrepreneurial clergy, some very large churches are paying entrepreneurial salaries.”

How those pastors handle their wealth varies widely. Some admit to being millionaires. A few forgo church salaries and tithe 90 percent of their income. Ultimately, though, there are about as many ways to spend pastoral wealth as there are to earn it.

A 2003 St. Louis Post-Dispatch article detailed accounts of the wealthy pastors club. According to the article, Creflo Dollar drives a black Rolls Royce and travels in a $5 million dollar jet; Benny Hinn lives in a $3.5 million home and drives an $80,000 Mercedes-Benz G500; T.D. Jakes has 2 mansions; Robert Tilton’s ministry owns a 50-foot yacht; Randy and Paula White’s ministry owns a jet airplane, a Cadillac Escalade and a Mercedes-Benz sedan.

Salaries for these ministers are typically kept confidential. But in a 1997 CNN interview, Hinn said he earned between $500,000 and $1 million annually.

The Compensation Handbook for Church Staff annually calculates average senior-pastor salaries by including base salary, housing, life and health insurance and educational benefits. While the national average salary of pastors is $77,096, according to the 2006 handbook, a select few pastors are earning much more.

An increase in worship attendance is the biggest factor to heightened pastoral and staff compensation, according to the 2007 handbook. Excluding insurance and educational benefits, senior pastors with a worship attendance of more than 1,000 people made an average of $111,052. That's 73 percent more than the $64,266 paid to pastors with a worship attendance of 300 people or fewer.

The rise of the megachurch apparently has made the wealthy-pastor club less exclusive, according to Becky McMillan and Matthew Price in a 2003 report for Pulpit and Pew, the pastoral-leadership research center at Duke Divinity School.

But an $111,052 annual salary isn’t considered extreme wealth, according to the handbook, How Much Should We Pay the Pastor. So what makes some megachurch pastors super-wealthy?

It’s the extracurriculars. All the highest-paid pastors mentioned in the Post-Dispatch article have nationally televised sermons or profit from successful book sales.

The New York Times reported in 2006 that Joel Osteen, pastor of Lakewood Church in Houston, could earn as much as $13 million on the contract he signed to write his second book, Become a Better You. His first book, Your Best Life Now, remained on the Times bestseller list for two years and sold more than 4 million copies. Seven million Americans view Osteen's weekly sermons on television, according to Nielsen Media Research.

Shortly after the success of Your Best Life Now, Osteen appeased many critics by discontinuing the $200,000 annual salary he received from Lakewood in order to live off the book revenues and worldwide tours run through Joel Osteen Ministries.


Even though Osteen’s messages continually focus on fulfilling potential prosperity, he told the Times that his sermons don’t deal directly with getting rich.

“I don’t believe I ever preached a message on money,” he said. “But I do believe … God can want you to have a better house. God wants you to be able to send your kids to college.”



Alternative salary systems

At the other end of the salary spectrum is Antioch Community Church in Waco, Texas. Since its formation, the church has paid all of its staff members the same annual salary, which is currently $26,400. The only difference in pay is compensation for dependents -- $400 a month for a spouse and $275 a month per child for up to four kids.

“Our view is that God doesn’t value the work of the pastor more than he does the secretary because God called us all to use our spiritual gifts,” Jeff Abshire, Antioch’s administrative pastor, said. “Aren’t we all called to fulfill the Great Commission? Aren’t we all called to preach the gospel?”

Abshire said Antioch pays low salaries because it wants to preserve its ministers’ calling from God.

“We believe that we’ll have greater integrity with our people if we’re living off a salary that is similar to what most of the people in our church earn,” Abshire said. “It’s easier to preach about finances when the pastor has as much faith-need for God to provide as the congregation does.”

Abshire acknowledged that many might perceive Antioch’s payment system as unusual. “We’re not saying this is for everybody,” he said. “We felt called to set up salaries this way, but we’re not saying that some other church is doing it the wrong way.”

some of these dresses were designed for oyibo figure to be used with push up bra.

I saw this article today and wondered if Nigerian women are generally bustier than women from other parts of the world.

I think these particular outfits were designed for a minimum bust person to be used with a push up bra. Thats why the effect seems to be highlighted on an African lady.

I dont know if senate should be spending time focusing on nudity matters, but women should be more tasteful in dressing, for the main part.

We all know men love to see cleavage and lose their heads over it, but sometimes understatement is just as good as advertising.


my opinion.

Elosela, surely you do not believe the number of Nigerians who slipped unnoticed into the UK, is only a couple of thousand.

what's the point someone is making about lecturer work and pastor work?

people just talk for the sake of talking sha.

If you stop to think before you type, which one is more likely to pay better? Just in general, not even referencing any present, former or future pastor.

assuming the story is a true one,  have people considered these:

If a church can afford to pay $20 million cash for a private plane, then how is its status as a tax exempt entity justified?

People are saying the money was raised or is being raised through special offerings and seed sowing. Says who? Most times such projects are supposed to be funded through bank loans and the like. Otherwise, my previous statement applies. Why should any church have billions in assets and yet not be required to pay tax? Didnt Jesus pay his taxes?


And yet when civil authorities attempt to scrutinize religious institutions' finances, you see folks getting jittery and yelling persecution.


Are the church leaders not following the news about people dying in their efforts to migrate to places with better opportunities? They arent aware of the myriads of curses being rained on the country by its citizens who are fed up with the constant inefficiency and poverty? Nigerian girls having a reputation for prostituiton overseas? people being dumped in the desert by countries that are tired of the constant stream of migrants from elsewhere? So why would it be advisable to start flaunting wealth in this manner? Religion apart.

hmmm. I hope the story was fabricated sha.

your prayers have been answered.


Sun news decided to hear the voice of the people, and post a correct picture.

https://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5715/udehse2.jpg


http://www.sunnewsonline.com/webpages/sungirl/2008/july/sungirl-2008-07-17-001.htm



Hope they don't go back to funny looking pictures whenever they want to annoy fellow Nigerians.

is the 20 million in naira or dollars sef? My eye keeps seeing naira but the title says dollars.

maybe the paper got wrong information sha.

Why do we have everything upside down in spite of the acute religiousness, in Nigeria?

I read people's comments on pm news, and this is one of the amazing ones there:

I PRAY TODAY THAT GOD ALMIGHTY GIVE ME APPLE OPPORTUNITIES “TO SO SEED” IN THIS PROJECT. AMEN.

by some guy called Mic (wonder if he's a Nler).

Shouldnt he be praying for God to help him "sow seeds" towards his education, or at least something that will improve his life in a practical way?

i tire o.

I thought he's Edo?

I googled his name and it sounds Edo/Delta. I couldnt even pronounce it.

his wife needs to share the secret of how she's managed to stay so fine and keep her figure after all those kids.

the woman be like sisi sef.


alibaba shouldn't mess up oh. Nothing dey outside wey im wife no get.

Queenisha:
They said maggots descended on the bodies in a couple of hours.The incident happened at night,you need flies to lay eggs after copulation which hatch into maggots
do you see flies flying at midnight?
anything is possible in naija sha
our own flies fit be turboflies wey no dey sleep

that was what the reporters were told. It wasnt verified independently.

The victims could also have died earlier.

Thats why this thing should be investigated, to make sure murder isnt being covered up under the guise of juju.

The whole story is somehow.

17 people at one go is too much nah. Its not like there was a gas pipeline there.

It could also be carbon monoxide poisoning as well, true. I thought of gas lines, then remembered they use gas tanks, in Nigeria, not lines.

When 17 people die mysteriously at the same time, occult/mystery/prayer/esoteric has to be ruled out, even in Africa.

Whatever methods were used by the occult to kill 17 people at once in this manner should be investigated.

This is the 21st century. The age of computers, automobiles, jet propulsion, aeronautics, etc. People travel from London to Japan in a matter of hours, without the occult. We can't continue having the exact same fears and beliefs we had 600 years ago before oyibo even came to cart away most of us.

na my own I dey talk o.

the tropical heat can decompose the bodies if they werent disposed of quickly enough.

[quote author=Negro_Ntns link=topic=151185.msg2517276#msg2517276 date=1216254495]tpia,

1. The discussion is "Yoruba men eating cooked fish head".
2. In response, I pulled a Yoruba proverb on fish head.
3. Applied the proverb in context of why it is a noble cause to eat fish head.
4. You responded by saying my interpretation of the proverb was wrong.
5. You offered another explanation for the proverb _ the correct version!

How does your offer of the correct version answer to the topic? If it does not, how is somebody wrong that attempted to apply a proverbial saying on fish head to answer to the topic?

Again, I maintain that Africans are notorious for skipping vision in favor of academic righteousness and with your responses you are accurately substantiating my claim.[/quote]you don't seem to have read my response here:

And once again, I do not think the proverb applies to eating fish. You are confirming the OP's ridiculous statement that eating fish head is a culture and tradition among Yorubas.  Since they even have proverbs describing the best way to eat fish head. I disagree. Unless its a culture in some parts of Yoruba that I'm not familiar with.

neither is it about political correctness. Its about the OP's reason for starting this thread, which he tried to explain but which I still don't get.

In any other context but this one, your translation wouldnt have raised questions.


The proverb's metaphorical meaning is: the head is the most important part to control. When you control the head (the mind), you control something/someone's power/the center of power. Not so with the tail.


I'm done. Assume whatever you want.









@ lucabrasi

one african's guinea brocade is another oyibo's curtain or table cloth both important to them but diffrent use

eh, I can never forget my embarassment as a kid, when we had guinea brocade curtains, back when guinea was used exclusively as native attire, in Nigeria. I don't know if my dad was trying to be "hip" or something. I kept wondering why the man couldnt buy flowery or plain designs like everyone else.

abi oh.

I already posted somewhere else as soon as I noticed him, so he can follow me there.

People just like bringing curses on themselves sha.  A thread about 17 people dying at the same time, and this one is here making irrelevant posts.

Those who died are someone's relatives o.

I feel sorry for this nairaland user id, whoever he or she is.

in between news of Nigeria's poverty, and news about Nigeria's wealth, one hardly knows what to think.

on one day, its people vamooosing to greener pastures and raining curses on the country. On another its people in Nigeria breaking boundaries of wealth.

na wa oh.

Its not that serious.

I didnt even understand most of your first post, @ sisikill.

I was more concerned with Negro's applying that proverb to eating fish head.

I just read about this.

The way the incident was described, sounds more like a bomb blast, in my opinion.

Mighty wind shaking the building, bodies tossed to and fro, etc etc. That happens when a bomb explodes.

I hope people know how to investigate this case. Nothing esoteric there- its just plain murder.

Unless it was a generator explosion.

may they RIP.

and I thought I'd heard it all.


which one is this again?


and what's the average age of some of these posters? 10?