₦airaland Forum

jaybee3:
But that's usually the underlying reason for their fight. Didn't the fight actually start from the demand for "equal pay for similar work" ish?

Two slightly different things. Earnings in marriage against pay in the workforce. Earnings in marriage is not what predicates the feminsit push for equality in marriage. It's an absolute, they do not beleive a man should lead.

A "gender" pay gap due to structural faults/bias is discriminatory. Equal work for equal pay. But any structural impediments have been removed a long-time ago, and any pay gap is now due to womens choices, not discrimination.


TV

bukatyne:
I hear my senior colleagues talk, I know that older men and women are just kids in adult bodies

Most people stop maturing mentally around age 26. Not long to go now !


TV

bukatyne:
A 23yr old lady with a 27yr old guy are still considered in the same age range.

Bukatyne please na.

An "age range" can be set at any point one chooses. Like school years are from September to August. "Age mates" is much more narrowly defined and is nowhere given as up to 5 years. Next we will hear those of the same generation are age mates.

To join a regberebge it's range, does not make you all mates.

TV

Kimoni:
Coogar, matured married sef dey now. Yetunde Bustline is a good example of mature married . (Matured and once married)

And we can see the men flocking to her and how she has her pick of available and unavailable men - oh wait, he left her for a younger woman and never had a long term interest in her to begin! A man her age will still collar a hot young(er) wife.


TV

Kimoni:
Except you are talking of outliers, the general view is that the higher you go in your career or business, the more money and comfortable you become. But with the word "ultimately" you added, well yes, financial status would even out ultimately but she won't also be young by then.
First, my point is "younger". Secondly Does marrying younger mean your earning cease to grow or your potential goes unfullfilled?

[quote author=Kimoni post=36395308]Right and wrong. Yes, finances and other qualities shouldn't outrightly determine headship but where you are officially ceding your manly responsibilities to your wife, there would be consequences. It's like selling your birthright. I believe this is where feminists get a lot of their strength from

First, there are a number of scenarios and a number of responses;
1. A man provides all
2. A man provides majorly
3. A man provides minorly
4. A woman provides all.

In none of the first 3 does a man have to cede headship due to finances. Yes, it can and does lead to issues, but the mans approach was probably suspect to begin with.

Secondly, whatever the case, there are still women socialised though culture or religion that will not challenge the husbands headship.

As for feminsits, their push for equality is not based on earnings. Otherwise you are saying that feminists only demand equality in marriage where the wife earns as much or more. Independent earnings by a wife help it though.


TV

Kimoni:
The younger female singles are more likely to tick this box before marriage than the older singles. As a man, the lower you go, the higher the probability that you will be the sole breadwinner.

I see your reasoning here as faulty;
Younger does not mean that they will not ultimately be higher earning. Bukatyne please explain to Kimoni !
And younger couples have increased scope and time

Kimoni:
And this is the reason why many guys will not marry young these days. They just don't have the means to provide fully for the home. But where you go for a matured single, she will be better able to share some of those responsibilities with you, down to the very basic ones sef. Well, times are hard so guys prefer this model now. Just that like I said earlier, you might then have to compromise on your "headship" or those things you consider ur basic right as the man of the house. Like the lady saying she would hire a chef and guys descended on her, but it's reality. He who plays the piper dictates the tune abi? But when two people are jointly playing the piper nko? They must both dictate the tune.

The first thing my FIL asked my husband then when he took me to him as his wife-to-be was - are you sure you are able to provide for this lady and the children that will come out of this union? That question is becoming more and more irrelevant these days.

I see this as right in part and wrong in part. I noted in an earlier response to Edwife that early marriage is increasingly difficult and noted to Naijababe about the need for 2 income houselholds.

That does not change womens desires for men of higher status and good providors. And where wives contribute, men stil typically contribute more and are still tasked with overall financial responsibility. Further, a financial lack will always be his fault andd weigh more heavily on him, regardless of the respective contributions.

And finances - nor looks, height, education, family pedigree or any other thing - do not determine headship. And a man that cede's headship to his wife is opening a can of worms for himself. I'll touch on that in part 2 if you'll let me get there !


TV

bukatyne:
I am serious.

Going by his message,

He feels it is better for a 40yr old man to marry a 30yr old than a 30yr old marry a 27yr old.

Relatively and in the long run, yes! Your task is to show differently if you can. I did not say a man should wait till 40 or 40 is the best age for a man.


TV

bukatyne:
same could be said for you.

You married your wife @ 30. On NL, a 30 yr old single is seen as 'an cargo' and 35 already experienced menopause

You are not even campaigning against marrying younger women; you are saying men should marry women about 10+yrs younger (2 different things)

A 35yr old woman is not old for a 50yr old man etc. while she will be considered 'old' on a normal day.

You married a mature single i.e. MOM whom you were older than by 10+ years.

You need to change your message

My mesage was for a better quality sex life within marriage, men should marry women younger than them. Which part needs changing?


TV

naijababe:
I have a small circle of friends, always have and if I were to go by my circle of friends over the last 20 years, my friends and I have always been about intelligence, respect and ambition.............in fact one of my 'toasters' back in the day was Obj's son, met him in 98 well before his dad became president up until his dad head became head honcho and he started to cruise around town. If anything his status changed nothing on my part. He is a very brilliant chap, graduated with a first and went to Cambridge to do a PhD. None of my friends ever asked me why I didn't date him.

Mr Naijababe asked me out around the same time and I preferred him even if he was penniless and wore 'tontinrin' trousers. I am aware that many women choose their mates on the basis that you stated but I don't think it can be considered the norm.

I won't gainsay your romance, but even to be in your circle - or how did Bukatyne put it? - he had to be of a certain calibre. He had to have something doing and/or potential. You probably took it as read and looked further down the list of criteria. Or I could just ask why ambition & intelligence where important as criteria

naijababe:
I beg to differ, this is just your opinion. I can state an opposite position, if anything, the people I know who married someone with a kid are men, I am sitting here trying to remember any woman I know that did so and can't come up with any.

Differing is what keeps convo moving ! Having a kid out of wedlock has an impact on marital value in terms of chances and quality - more so for women. I have no problem with a different opinion and will not doubt individual experience. Maybe we should look for data.

naijababe:
All of the above is true for both sexes.................lol at not being able to date, you went on the wrong dates, I have gone on dates where I paid my part of the bill happily..............in fact, one guy turned around and told his friend that I was arrogant because I offered to split the bill

Not in the same order.
You were happy to pay your share. he would have gladly paid all. And a man with no money can't ask a girl out - especially expecting her to foot the bill.

TV

edwife:
It is not hard,all my brothers married before 30.In French countries,that's is the normal age for marriage. A 19-21 years old wife will be a nightmare.But at least you said ,he can go a little older.

Not hard, in that men are incapable, just the difficulties that many may face. If marriage culture was what I think it should be, we'd all be prepared for marriage much earlier. I am a fan of early marriage and appreciate the earlier the marriage the closer in age the couple are likely to be.

A 19 year old needn't be a nightmare, any more than a 27 year old will be immature. It's about readiness. Old women can be nightmares too. Do you mean francophile WA nations?

edwife:
Now you make it seems that you are all about sex in marriage.Is sex the only factor that should keep a man married?

Absolutely not. But I specifically noted how this discussion focused on the benefits of the age difference for a married mans sex life.

edwife:
Many women have come here on NL to complain about their husband lack of "pleasuring" them in bed,and we all read from men that she should be patient with him,or teach him what she wants.Can't the man do the same?

I acknowledge that, and I am happy to discuss ways to forestall it and potential remedies. That is what I am doing here. Even with my reccomendation, it doesn't mean there wil not be issues. The maturity will also help cope with and resolve those. And that is not an age-difference related issue per se.

edwife:
As long as you acknowledge that she was sexy and definetely more together than most twenty somethings,she can be another man choice.

Exactly. I speak to men making the best and most well considered choices. My opinion of someone I'nm not interested in does not matter.

edwife:
I have seen many twenty somethings looking older and fatter than most 30s'.

I wouldn't be interested or advise men to go for those ones either. Although they'd be easier to work with than older, fatter women, and less likely to be fatter.

Don't forget that I have tasked men to be prospects themselves. To be fit, focused, monogamous, willing and mostly able to provide for their families. Why would they strive for that and not have choice?

No one denies women the right to want tall or rich, or want a Dr, or IT consultant or to be treated like a princess ! In some senses it's a market and one should properly value their goods.


TV

naijababe:
If potential/current pocket size is important to women in general as you put it, what then is important to men in general? This is not a rhetoric, I am genuinely curious and wish to know.

Where have you been? Working out, juicing and making money - young men take note !

A mans ability to provide, or future potential to do so, has to be paramount for a woman that wants a family - and doesn't come with huge independent wealth of her own. That would be most women no? And, she'd be silly to not check the economic viability and fitness - in many respects, why do women typically want tall? - of the man who would father her children.

Men have other criteria. Yes in a long list, some criteria will be the same/overlap, but the hierarchy is different. I've mentioned kids out of wedlock as one example. may be important to both, but generally it's more of a deal-breaker for men.

Men look for fertility - typically presented as youth or beauty. That would possibly rank first. Amply evidenced by the many men who marry a woman based solely on looks.

Further down, would come things like fidelity, respect, intelligence etc. Money was never really an issue - and yes we do have male diggas/social climbers - which is why when I was broke, I couldn't date, but women just need a clean dress .

I know times are a-changing and the financial climate make it hard for the average family to survive on one salary, and men to be in a position to marry as early as previously, but that's my basic take.


TV

edwife:
Yes he is talking about a man 40+.

The man was 40+ years older than his wife - wife #4 - and almost 90? I don't see how that falls within the outline I suggested !

edwife:
Now my question to you: Who will a 27 years old marry then?a 19-20 years old girl?

It's hard for a 27 year old to be properly ready, but certainly possible. The half your age +7 rule would suggest about 21'ish. But the range you gave would be fine - IFF they were both ready. Likewise, if he went a bit older, no problem - but I wouldn't advise it ATBE

edwife:
if you are 40 and married a 30 years old woman-that same 30 years giving you pleasure in bed won't be able to give the same pleasure to a 35 years old?

Yes she will be able to - but men have to think strategically and not just in the moment. You marry her at 30 and she has 2 or 3 kids. That will change a lot about her physique and libido.

A 30 year old man marries a 30 year old woman and they have 2 kids in 5 years. She goes from babe to frump quick time, there will also be a lot of sexual downtime during and after the pregnancy. His sex life is at best patchy, her libido will likely be down. He is frustrated - just when he is hitting his stride and attaining higher status.

edwife:
So tv will your wife still look appealing to a 28 years old man?

As a 28 year old man I wouldn't marry my wife now, but yes I'd acknowledge she was sexy and beddable, and definitley more together than most twenty somethings, but not a long-term best choice.


TV

edwife:
Thank you,we are getting somewhere.

That depends on where you want to go !

edwife:
So if men libido drops with age and not forgetting our brothers who develop protruded belly,because we must admit- today's economy

Of course libido drops with age, but it does so at differing rates and from different starting points for the sexes. Plus, women have additional rigours and potentially more preoccupations that will dampen the emotional component of her libido.

I've noted that the men should stay fit, but if it's about potruding bellies, women are more likely to be unfit than men - another reason to go younger.

edwife:
stress level is getting higher by the day,what will then happen to the younger wife who still very much nubile and actively sexual?

And women are immune to stress or have less stressors? Abi a fat old wife wont add to the brodas stress I snubility is forever and absolute? Her sexual activity does not decrease?

In short, all things being equal, a man will have a better quality and longer lasting sex life with a younger woman. The fitter you are as a man, the more in-shape you'd want your wife to be.

Men are able to retain muscle mass and for longer and shed weight quicker, also having more of the hormones that engender this, which are the same ones that speak to libido


TV

pickabeau1:
Where did u get this information from ?

Good spot. It may well be true at the extremities. I certainly didn't notice ! Plus what is the equivalent for women?

If we want to bring outliers into play, it's known that birth weight drops as women hit 28 and menopause can start at 32. We can only speak generally and relatively.


TV

bukatyne:
Are we adding fourth wives to the mix again?

When I talk of marriage, I only take account of the first wives.

Second to infinity does not exist to me.

You have lost track somewhere. My OP specifically states monogamy. And the piece you referenced by truckpusher is a man with 4 wives.


TV

bukatyne:
@ bold:
Then all the bus conductors, beggars et al will not be married.

They are married to women who percieve them to have higher status than them. Or do you see many graduates with Bus conductors !

bukatyne:
This myth that all women care about status/pocket sha

It's not a myth Edwife sef said it !

bukatyne:
It depends on the woman's deal breaker and the value system of the people involved.

Empty pocket no potential is always a deal breaker. The potential sef must be obvious ! Reminds me of a great testimony I once heard in church. A woman testifies how she met her husband when he was penniless and how thye've endured, now that he's doing well, he earns so much that she didn't have to work. He's a top consultant in the UK, his wife met him at uni in Niaja, when he was laready in midical scholl and well known as amongst the brightest students .

bukatyne:
I have seen a place where young mature women (early 20s) who have not birthed are mocked. The ones who have kids have higher value in the dating scene.

Please tell us more - a place where men prefer to marry women with kids otver those without? ATBE??

bukatyne:
You do not have the power or authority to enforce your morals/stance on the whole world.
Different strokes for different folks

I enforce nothing, just relaying tried and tested observations. You cannot equalise everything, no matter how much you try to deny reality.

How many bus conductors did you consider . Why not??

TV

Truckpusher:
Adams is in trouble

My people said that a man that plants an apple tree in his compound has simply invited children to disturb his sleep and peace of mind.

Please, what age difference are we talking about here?

And Bukatyne, note he has children - her selection was based purely on status. Se you get?


TV

bukatyne:
@Bold:

About something totally different to what I posited

edwife:


Another man has spoken.

Again, about something totally different to what I posited.

Truckpusher descibes a man 40+ older than his wife who is actually number wife number 4 - and this is when the man is close to 90. How does that map to or rebut my position? A total strawman

Guys, if you fall for this MOMS - "marry our mature singles" - campaign, you are on your own. They are busy mapping scenarios that have no bearing or similarity to my advice in order to discredit it. Be wise. Think strategically.


TV

bukatyne:
There is no discussion of 'equality' here

People would prefer spouses who do not have outta wedlock kids. Whether that is enough to deter them from going through is a different thing altogether.

The same things does not obtain everywhere.

Yes it does.

All women, everywhere are first and foremost concerned about a mans status and ability to provide. Are children out of wedlock a consideration, sure, but simply not as high as it is for men, and unlikely to stop the deal if the men score highly in other ways.

Fact!

TV

bukatyne:
Get in touch with your village or childhood group

There is a reason they have 0 -5 yrs; 5 - 10yrs etc.

I have forgotten where I saw it however ages mates are within a 5yr range

Proudly Ijebu !

The "Regberegbe" are "age grade" associations and typically range from 3 to 5 years. They are constituted for social cohesion and activity - not because they serve as a reference for marriage or any other relationship.

There are still associations of people born within a year of each other, and there is still the sense of age hierarchy. I call my brother egbon and he is barely 2 years older than me. Do I drag title or headship with him because we are in the sam regberegbe?


TV

bukatyne:
Last I remembered, you are not here abi?

Do you think it's any different here or anywhere else ? And the same obtains there. In fact men can have kids out of wedlock before and after marriage sef.

bukatyne:
The fact men have kids has a huge bearing on women's decisions except if the men are celebs (the celebrity world is clearly an outliner) or they hide that fact.

Face facts. It's easier for men with kids to marry women without than vice-versa. Why, because women prioritise other things more highly when choosing a mate. All the men I know with kids out of wedlock are married. If any of the women are, I don't know about it. I am not referencing celebrity lifestyle.

bukatyne:
I know someone who did not marry a guy with a kid even when her sis had a kid outta wedlock.

Bukatyne, discuss logically. An individual case does not change the generic fact - it's an exception. I would never have married a woman with children. Does that mean some men won't?

bukatyne:
Theory is world apart from practical when it comes to marriage and human relations

Face facts - no matter how ugly. Why the desire to "equalise" everything


TV

innervoice:
You were responding to my post, were you not? Were you doing it alone or did anyone here ask you to respond on their behalf? So who is us?

Yawn - your post queried those who were expending unecessary time and energy on this matter - I responded on behalf of us all. Including you now that you've joined us. Welcome !

innervoice:
You can deceive the lil girls here that are feeding from your negative energy, not me. A 21-year-old girl (example) can NEVER achieve and acquire what a 35-year-old woman can. You must be joking.

Are you regretting your choice ! A 21 year old girl can achieve and acquire way more than a 35 year old - and before she is 35. Or did the 35 year old have all she has at 35 at 21? See your fuzzy thinking. Not that I actually said, anyone should go and marry a 21 year old!

innervoice:
My wife and I are age mates. I am too demanding to surround myself with people who due to lack of experience cannot meet me at my intellectual level.

My bad, I didn't realise that intelluct is a function of age or experience - or that is the main ingredient of a successful marriage.

innervoice:
Since you are 10+ older and since men die earlier and also are at risk of impotence with increasing age, your wife must have been quite desperate to have married you.

You are struggling !
Yes I am 10+ older, and an extremely fit, fully functioning male. I should be potent well into my 70's and beyond. As for dying earlier, that was part of the deal . How can the one who cleans up after you die before you !

Impotence will come - I will welcome it sef. Even if it doesn't, by the time my wife gets menopausal, I will be willing to relegate sex to a smaller role as appropriate.

And of course my wife was mad desperate to marry me - I'm a catch, and she didn't want to lose me to the hordes of other women that were looking to shunt her from pole position .

I don't need to ask about your situation, but I trust your wife is in great shape after kids and you are a pretty fit bloke yourself. Otherwise my thoughts and prayers are with you .


TV

bukatyne:
@Bold: Your business

Re: Baby fathers are more appealing...

You must be reading a lot of Celeb stories and believing all the theories built up in your mind.

An average Nigerian lady WILL NOT marry a baby daddy if there are other unattached prospects.

Nope, I don't take references from celebs.

Whether you like it or not, the fact is that men with children have little problem acquiring wives - and good ones if they have even a little bearing. Women with Kids are not as well situated.

When your "average Nigerian Lady" will marry a man with kids and other wives if he has sufficient prospects.


TV

bukatyne:
5yrs gap are 'age mates'

TV

bukatyne:
It is my personal belief; it has nothing to do with RCCG

And you are welcome to it - it's still parochial.


TV

innervoice:
Do you suffer from multiple personality disorder? Who is us?

I'm not having the discussion alone am I? And while I may have a personality disorder, it's not the "multiple" type !

innervoice:
I am a married man.

Not the answer, but anyway...any polish or sophistication an older woman has can be aquired by a younger woman.

innervoice:
Question for you, how old is your wife? Is she already expiring?

10+ years younger than me . Distractingly nubile and I'll expire before she does !

What is the age diff between you and your wife?


TV

mbulela:
God does not give people wives/husbands as a standard practice.
There is no one person for any one.
If you believe so, what happens to the destined spouse of all the persons who died in accidents before marrying?
Are their destined spouses destined to a life of marital unhappiness?

Much appreciated.
It can be hard conversing with the kind of parochial perspective one finds in places like the RCCG. I'm learning patience !


TV

innervoice:
I have been following this discussion and it is quite entertaining how people on NL work themselves up over nonsense.
Let people speak for themselves.

I prefer a WOMAN to a girl. Women in their 30s are far more attractive than lil girls in their 20s who are insecure and immature.
Women in their 30s look better, behave better, are wiser, more confident and far more sensual. FEMINITY at its peak.

To each their own

Free us with our gra-gra ontop small small gist na !

Quick Question - is your preference in terms of a wife or a girlfriend?


TV

tearoses:
Meanwhile on the other hand if men think that they can wait until any age before they get married and think that they can automatically pick up a younger woman when they are ready, they may get a big shock.

They most certainly will - if they don't possess the requisite "status" or are in bad shape. Otherwise, a man will almost always have his pick of available women - even unavailable ones sef !

tearoses:
Women are not stupid and these days men too are being left on the shelf. The older the man is, the more likely he too has baggage and baby momma all over the place & many women dont want a man with luggage either.

Being a baby fada does not deter women. In fact for some wierd reason - actually not wierd at all, having fathered children speaks to a mans "fitness" - it draws women. I've experienced it out with my kids. It's even more pronounced if the kids are good looking !

tearoses:
The first question I will have in my mind of a 35 year old man who isnt married is Why not? What happened? and I will did deeper in to his hostory.

And you should always do forensic due dilligence. That has been made clear as pragmatic for both sexes.
However, while you are busy doing CSI Mapo on a presentable 35 year old man, other women will stampede over you to get to him !

tearoses:
I have a collegue who when he got to 38 he met a girl in her mid twenties. Her family werent happy with the age gap and they convinced the girl to break the relationship.

The reality was that most girls of his age had tons of baggage and the younger girls were NOT interested in him or just too imature for him. He is still unmarried now and he is now in his fourties.

He must be "unlearned". I always caveated that he must be a "good prospect". 38 years for a man is not a thing. Firstly, he should have been spinning a number of plates and had better game, secondly the "family" excuse was just that.

Send him to me - for free sef - within a year he will be fighting them off with a cattle prod !

tearoses:
Many of these young girls are looking for someone to catapault them out of their current lives. The first emotion that comes to them is not love. its survival. I didnt marry my hubby becasue he was 6 years older, I married him becasue I loved him and would have loved him if we were the same age. I didnt go looking for an older man. TV you are advocating for a man to go searching for a younger woman

No you did not go searching for an older man. Consciously or unconsciously you searched for a man with the requisite status/maturity or potential. That typically comes wrapped up "older"

And yes, I am advocating for men to favour younger women - and in part 2 I'll explain more as to why !

tearoses:
The reality of this is panning out in the USA when old cargo men are going to the village to pick young girls. They bring them to Amelica and the girls grow wings and then pop pop pop. tragedy!

That is a small demographic - and they are not "made men". I always caveated that the men must be "standing".

tearoses:
You are lucky you married a younger good wife. I was lucky I married an older good husband, there are many people who have the opposite experience.

Aunty CC, luck rarely has anything to do with a successful marriage - luck had nothing to do with it, in both our cases !

tearoses:
In short if a man finds a good woman regardless of her age, he should go with it.
Stands down from podium
I no gree at all at all

Absolutely, I merely offer a flexible template with justification for how to go about it.

I notice you skipped my "jambite" questions !

TV

moca:
Women have sexuual fantasies more than guys.

(my opinion sha)


TV01,u wicked o. See vexation.
Why na?
U gat to apologize to us.
Wifey is a woman u know.

How family and little madam?

I totally agree Moca - I'm sure women are far more imaginative as well. Mens own no pass 3some or watching 2 women ! I don't even do that - I fantasize about spanking but no get the liver to do it !

I figure women also love soft porn, but they can pretend die, or how do you explain the madness around 50 shades of grey?

How far na? Good to hear from you. We are all well thank you for asking, hope likewise.


TV

Yes 0! For some women, that's all they have. Sorry eh !


TV

damiso:
However like so many others have said I think it's down to the individual. And finding that person who complements you and who you can tolerate to a certain extent. To put a blanket figure of '7 to 12' age differential just feels a bit specific to me.

You are right, it is down to the individuals involved - and every case is unique. I did say generally and advise the range as a rule of thumb, not a precise measure. On the flip side, I think you and others are being to "generalist" A loose plan/idea is better than none

Funnily enough, it's women that ideally want this - in some cases moreso than men who do not always think long-term. Think amongst the couples you know; the male will typically be older (and taller ).

Think back to Uni in Naija, how many jambite girls dated jambite boys - I no get sniff as jambite 0! Female hypergamy demands higher status in males and that usually comes with an age difference.

I was referencing it in particular with reference to sexual compatibility for this convo, not even status. As an ideal, it tends to work for both parties on many levels. People have just lost sight of why.

Afterall, speak the truth, how many Naija women consider their age mates "small boys"? Or even those proximate in age. How many girls dump guys when they can land bigger - and often older - fish?

And it's global. Afterall, I did not coin the adage "half your age plus 7 years". That's a particular Western saying. Only now the West is shaming men who marry younger.

All the women who partied or focused on their careers are hitting their 30's with no suitors, and asking where al the good men have gone? Into the arms of younger more nubile women.

Men are instinctively drawn to nubility and youth - it speaks to child-bearing. Dem's the facts. I'd wager my last dollar your relative youth was part of your DH' attraction. I'd also bet you've called your age mates "small boy" and would not have given a fellow jambite a look in !

Speak the truth - all y'all


TV