₦airaland Forum

Splinz:
And where is it written that the dead can intercede for the living?

the heresy number 2 sola scriptura. What next?

Splinz:
These are explanations you give to your fellow Catholic, not someone like me. Being smart by half wouldn't work here.

“Intercessions aren't made to saints”, so what do you do when you kneel before the statue of 'a' Mary and pray to the idol? The question is: Which of the faithful servants throughout the ages has ever prayed to a departed faithful for his/her intercession?

You may as well help in answering this one question: Which of the saints did Abraham or Jesus prayed to for their intercessions?

I have never seen a Catholic with an idol. When you are ready to discuss without these insulting insinuations let me know.

Splinz:
I see. All these talk of insults is nothing but an emotional blackmail. Sorry, it doesn't work on me.

Op has no biblical backing for his rank idolatry, but the same old terrible twisting of scriptures to say what they want it to say. I asked a question which you may as well help him answer: Did Abraham asked Noah to intercede or was it Jesus that prayed for an intercession from one of His angels?

Op's submission in his bid to justify the worship (all that talk of "honoring" is a grand deception!) of Mary is simply humorous.

your request for more scripture after you have failed to address the ones presented to you simply show y aren't ready to engage in a serious discussion.

Splinz:
Who is a protestant? Where is the insult and the superior argument?

Seems you're a starter in this forum. I'd advice you to go for more studies. At least learn better ways of twisting Scriptures to somehow support your idolatry.

Your outing here is nothing but a disaster. Such wicked butchering of the truths!

And yet you have not even tried to refute him. Sorry dear you are just making noise.

kabasa77:
Lol.. You are just twisting the scriptures.. Abraham a living person as at then interceded for Lot, also a living person, by the way, what do you understand as Saints?

where is it written t the dead lose their ability to interceed?

doyinbaby:
Why do Catholics pray to Mary and other dead saints ...also why do Catholics pray to God through Mary and through dead saints...........many protestants including me find it difficult to understand this aspect of the life of Catholics

d same reason Jews pray to their dead Saints. Because no one in God dies, he is transformed not dead. Only protestantism which only began recently that deny this truth. Now I see why the Bible clearly says that in the later time many will deviate from the truth. We see this in protestantism today.

Splinz:
I don't know any of these churches. So, I don't speak for them.

Now, all these talks of “what about this... what about that person” is stale already. Are these people your own standard? While there's absolutely nothing wrong in having a friend's picture in either your house, car, office, etc, the moment that image becomes an abomination is when you put it before you, kneel/bow and pray to it. That is outright idolatry! So, in which of these churches you've mentioned is the worship/veneration of images sanctioned, as it is done in your Catholic church?

Tell me, that I may also call them out for their idolatry.

PS: Philippians 4:6 states: “...but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God”, not unto “Mary” or the “saints.” You don't need an intercessor to get your prayers to God, pray to Him in the name of Jesus as the mediator and you'll be heard! Abraham, Jacob, Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Deborah and other faithful servants of God never ask any saint or angel for intercession, but all made their requests and supplications directly to God, who is the hearer of prayers! (Psalm 65:2).

do you know anyone who makes intercessions to Mary and the Saints? All I have found are people who ask that Mary and the Saints interceeding on their behalf.

kabasa77:
Lol.. You are just twisting the scriptures.. Abraham a living person as at then interceded for Lot, also a living person, by the way, what do you understand as Saints?

where it is written that one loses his intercessory ability At death? Even the Jews ask their rightous dead for Intercession so where did the new Age protestant churches get the heresy that the biblical God prohibits asking for intercessions? Where did you guys get this from?

A saint is simply one set apart. In the Christian sense, he is one redeemed by the blood of christ, justified by his death and sanctified by the spirit. In the context of the discussion a saint is precisely one who has been glorified by God after his life on earth.

kabasa77:
Lol.. You are just twisting the scriptures.. Abraham a living person as at then interceded for Lot, also a living person, by the way, what do you understand as Saints?

where it is written that one loses his intercessory ability At death? Even the Jews ask their rightous dead for Intercession so where did the new Age protestant churches get the heresy that the biblical God prohibits asking for intercessions? Where did you guys get this from?

A saint is simply one set apart. In the Christian sense, he is one redeemed by the bloo

Splinz:
It is too small a thing to counter, I've done it for uncountable times. Thing is: he has no point! He can't even answer the simple question I asked him about the intercession he claimed were made by Abraham and Jesus. Can you help him by telling me which of the saints that these intercessions were made to?


I'm not here to change any view. Don't forget this is a public forum.

you have come to criticise and yet to didn't bother to understand before criticising.


Intercessions aren't made to saints, even a j.j.c should know that. Intercession is a prayer made to God on another's behalf. Members of christ body make intercession for one another just as Abraham made Intercession for sodom, and moses made for the isrealites even the apostle Paul asks for Intercession. These are rudiments of prayer and I an surprised that I am repeating them to someone who claims to be Christian.

Every member of christ body is a priest and so capable of interceeding for others. We are each capable of bee intercessors and this ability does not disappear when we die. In fact a Christian never dies according to christ. These are also rudimentary teachings you should know already.

All the op does and has been done both in judaism and in the church for over 2000yrs is he asks his fellow Christians to make intercession for him.

From a homily on the Gospels by Saint Gregory the Great, pope

Christ the good shepherd

I am the good shepherd.  I know my own — by which I mean, I love them — and my own know me....  

...Turn now to consider how these words of our Lord imply a test for yourselves also.  Ask yourselves whether you belong to his flock, whether you know him, whether the light of his truth shines in your minds.  I assure you that it is not by faith that you will come to know him, but by love; not by mere conviction, but by action.  John the evangelist is my authority for this statement.  He tells us that anyone who claims to know God without keeping his commandments is a liar.


Consequently, the Lord immediately adds:  As the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for my sheep.  Clearly he means that laying down his life for his sheep gives evidence of his knowledge of the Father and the Father’s knowledge of him.  In other words, by the love with which he dies for his sheep he shows how greatly he loves his Father.

Again he says:  My sheep hear my voice, and I know them; they follow me, and I give them eternal life.  Shortly before this he had declared:  If anyone enters the sheepfold through me he shall be saved; he shall go freely in and out and shall find good pasture.  He will enter into a life of faith; from faith he will go out to vision, from belief to contemplation, and will graze in the good pastures of everlasting life.

So our Lord’s sheep will finally reach their grazing ground where all who follow him in simplicity of heart will feed on the green pastures of eternity.  These pastures are the spiritual joys of heaven.  There the elect look upon the face of God with unclouded vision and feast at the banquet of life for ever more.

Beloved brothers, let us set out for these pastures where we shall keep joyful festival with so many of our fellow citizens.  May the thought of their happiness urge us on!  Let us stir up our hearts, rekindle our faith, and long eagerly for what heaven has in store for us.  To love thus is to be already on our way.  No matter what obstacles we encounter, we must not allow them to turn us aside from the joy of that heavenly feast.  Anyone who is determined to reach his destination is not deterred by the roughness of the road that leads to it.  Nor must we allow the charm of success to seduce us, or we shall be like a foolish traveler who is so distracted by the pleasant meadows through which he is passing that he forgets where he is going.





Are we members of the sheepfold?

Gregdcutie:
Okay...couldn't help but ask...that Jude nnam's Olisa song is amazing

the song is a masterpiece, absolutely beautiful. Hope u know there seem to be a problem with your blog.

From a sermon by Saint Ephrem, deacon
The cross of Christ gives life to the human race Death trampled our Lord underfoot, but he in his turn treated death as a highroad for his own feet. He submitted to it, enduring it willingly, because by this means he would be able to destroy death in spite of itself. Death had its own way when our Lord went out from Jerusalem carrying his cross; but when by a loud cry from that cross he summoned the dead from the underworld, death was powerless to prevent it. Death slew him by means of the body which he had assumed, but that same body proved to be the weapon with which he conquered death. Concealed beneath the cloak of his manhood, his godhead engaged death in combat; but in slaying our Lord, death itself was slain. It was able to kill natural human life, but was itself killed by the life that is above the nature of man. Death could not devour our Lord unless he possessed a body, neither could hell swallow him up unless he bore our flesh; and so he came in search of a chariot in which to ride to the underworld. This chariot was the body which he received from the Virgin; in it he invaded death’s fortress, broke open its strongroom and scattered all its treasure. At length he came upon Eve, the mother of all the living. She was that vineyard whose enclosure her own hands had enabled death to violate, so that she could taste its fruit; thus the mother of all the living became the source of death for every living creature. But in her stead Mary grew up, a new vine in place of the old. Christ, the new life, dwelt within her. When death, with its customary impudence, came foraging for her mortal fruit, it encountered its own destruction in the hidden life that fruit contained. All unsuspecting, it swallowed him up, and in so doing released life itself and set free a multitude of men. He who was also the carpenter’s glorious son set up his cross above death’s all-consuming jaws, and led the human race into the dwelling place of life. Since a tree had brought about the downfall of mankind, it was upon a tree that mankind crossed over to the realm of life. Bitter was the branch that had once been grafted upon that ancient tree, but sweet the young shoot that has now been grafted in, the shoot in which we are meant to recognize the Lord whom no creature can resist. We give glory to you, Lord, who raised up your cross to span the jaws of death like a bridge by which souls might pass from the region of the dead to the land of the living. We give glory to you who put on the body of a single mortal man and made it the source of life for every other mortal man. You are incontestably alive. Your murderers sowed your living body in the earth as farmers sow grain, but it sprang up and yielded an abundant harvest of men raised from the dead. Come then, my brothers and sisters, let us offer our Lord the great and all-embracing sacrifice of our love, pouring out our treasury of hymns and prayers before him who offered his cross in sacrifice to God for the enrichment of us all.

jnrbayano:
Inukwa?
I could have walked past him without noticing

just d way i like it....

SalC:
He has been in the east for years.

Yeah, it seems u noticed... i have dropped hints here and there... even on this thread. If naturalisation works in nigeria i'll be an igbo man now.

jnrbayano:
Nice mentioning me bro.

Ubenedictus walked into my area incognito?

lol, do you know anyone who announces his travels on anonymous social media platform? besides I have been in the east for sometime now. ate my share of okpa and abacha, tasted the white soup and ran away.... east is pretty cool and peaceful...I'll miss it.

Syncan:
Hmm. A university comes to mind. Jnrbayano confirm copied...over.

I imagine that you will notice, nothing dey pass you by.

From the treatise On the Prescription of Heretics by Tertullian, priest
(Cap. 20:1-9; 21, 3; 22, 8-10: CCL 1, 201-204)

The preaching of the apostles

Our Lord Jesus Christ himself declared what he was, what he had been, how he was carrying out his Father’s will, what obligations he demanded of men. This he did during his earthly life, either publicly to the crowds or privately to his disciples. Twelve of these he picked out to be his special companions, appointed to teach the nations.

One of them fell from his place. The remaining eleven were commanded by Christ, as he was leaving the earth to return to the Father after his resurrection, to go and teach the nations and to baptize them into the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.

The apostles cast lots and added Matthias to their number, in place of Judas, as the twelfth apostle. The authority for this action is to be found in a prophetic psalm of David. After receiving the power of the Holy Spirit which had been promised to them, so that they could work miracles and proclaim the truth, they first bore witness to their faith in Jesus Christ and established churches throughout Judea. They then went out into the whole world and proclaimed to the nations the same doctrinal faith.

They set up churches in every city. Other churches received from them a living transplant of faith and the seed of doctrine, and through this daily process of transplanting they became churches. They therefore qualify as apostolic churches by being the offspring of churches that are apostolic.

Every family has to be traced back to its origins. That is why we can say that all these great churches constitute that one original Church of the apostles; for it is from them that they all come. They are all primitive, all apostolic, because they are all one. They bear witness to this unity by the peace in which they all live, the brotherhood which is their name, the fellowship to which they are pledged. The principle on which these associations are based is common tradition by which they share the same sacramental bond.

The only way in which we can prove what the apostles taught—that is to say, what Christ revealed to them—is through those same churches. They were founded by the apostles themselves, who first preached to them by what is called the living voice and later by means of letters.

The Lord had said clearly in former times: I have many more things to tell you, but you cannot endure them now. But he went on to say: When the Spirit of truth comes, he will lead you into the whole truth. Thus Christ shows us that the apostles had full knowledge of the truth, for he had promised that they would receive the whole truth through the Spirit of truth. His promise was certainly fulfilled, since the Acts of the Apostles prove that the Holy Spirit came down on them.

Gregdcutie:
St. Cecilia Choir @St. Luke's Chaplaincy sang that song that day. Do you worship there?

no, am in the East right now and the closest chaplaincy is st Joseph the worker.

Syncan:
Ubenedictus, in a split second of wandering imagination, I just tried to place St.Attanasius or Ireneus where Pope Francis is now...Ehm..How you see am? Well...Their world was different.

That one go blow my head.

nnokwa042:
u mean those one's in Italy ? please don't go there

i guess u just couldnt help yourself. You just enjoy tribal e-war

from left to right we have.
Greek Orthodox pope,
Catholic Pope Francis,
Coptic pope tawadrous ii,
Orthodox ecumenical patriarch, Batholomew and
Catholic patriarch Ibrahim Isaac Sidrak

Three popes gather for ecumenical prayer service: Coptic Orthodox Pope Tawadros II (center), Catholic Pope Francis (second from left), and Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople Bartholomew I (second from right) attended a nondenominational prayer service at St. Peter’s Church in Cairo on Friday. This is the first picture we’ve seen of all three church leaders gathered in one place in our lifetimes. The church was the site of the December suicide bombing that killed 30.

zig2ryme04:
In my sleep today i dreamt i was listening to a song. I woke up turned on my TV, after the program being aired was over the next song that was played was the same song I dreamt of. Please people, what does that mean?

it happens to me frequently, I usually dream about tiny events which usually makes no meaning until during the day as I just see myself doing the stuff I dreamt about. its like deja vu.

I hardly joke with my dreams except the ones that Look like action film. I write them down and mark them as they unfold.

From the commentary on the first letter of Peter by
Saint Bede the Venerable, priest

A chosen race, a royal priesthood
You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood. This praise was given long ago by Moses to the ancient people of God, and now the apostle Peter rightly gives it to the
Gentiles, since they have come to believe in Christ
who, as the cornerstone, has brought the nations
together in the salvation that belonged to Israel.
Peter calls them a chosen race because of their faith,
to distinguish them salvation salvation who by refusing to
accept the living stone have themselves been
rejected. They are a royal priesthood because they are
united to the body of Christ, the supreme king and true
priest. As sovereign he grants them his kingdom, and
as high priest he washes away their sins by the
offering of his blood. Peter says they are a royal
priesthood; they must always remember to hope for an
everlasting kingdom and to offer to God the sacrifice
of a blameless life.
They are also called a consecrated nation, a people
claimed by God as his own, in accordance with the
apostle Paul’s explanation of the prophet’s teaching:
My righteous man lives by faith; but if he draws back, I will
take no pleasure in him. But we, he says, are not the sort
of people who draw back and are lost; we are those who
remain faithful until we are saved. In the Acts of the
Apostles we read: The Holy Spirit has made you
overseers, to care for the Church of God which he bought
with his own blood. Thus, through the blood of our
Redeemer, we have become a people claimed by God as
his own, as in ancient times the people of Israel were
ransomed from Egypt by the blood of a lamb.
In the next verse, Peter also makes a veiled allusion to
the ancient story, and explains that this story is to be
spiritually fulfilled by the new people of God, so that,
he says, they may declare his wonderful deeds. Those
who were freed by Moses from slavery in Egypt sang
a song of triumph to the Lord after they had crossed
the Red Sea and Pharaoh’s army had been
overwhelmed; in the same way, now that our sins have
been washed away in baptism, we too should express
fitting gratitude for the gifts of heaven. The Egyptians
who oppressed the people of God, and who can also
stand for darkness or trials, are an apt symbol of the
sins that once oppressed us but have now been
destroyed in baptism.
The deliverance of the children of Israel and their
journey to the long-promised land correspond with the
mystery of our redemption. We are making our way
toward the light of our heavenly home with the grace
of Christ leading us and showing us the way. The light
of his grace was also symbolized by the cloud and
the pillar of fire, which protected the Israelites from
darkness throughout their journey, and brought them
by a wonderful path to their promised homeland.

From the first apology in defense of the Christians by Saint Justin, martyr
The celebration of the eucharist No one may share the eucharist with us unless he believes that what we teach is true, unless he is washed in the regenerating waters of baptism for the remission of his sins, and unless he lives in accordance with the principles given us by Christ. We do not consume the eucharistic bread and wine as if it were ordinary food and drink, for we have been taught that as Jesus Christ our Savior became a man of flesh and blood by the power of the Word of God, so also the food that our flesh and blood assimilates for its nourishment becomes the flesh and blood of the incarnate Jesus by the power of his own words contained in the prayer of thanksgiving. The apostles, in their recollections, which are called gospels, handed down to us what Jesus commanded them to do. They tell us that he took bread, gave thanks and said: Do this in memory of me. This is my body. In the same way he took the cup, he gave thanks and said: This is my blood. The Lord gave this command to them alone. Ever since then we have constantly reminded one another of these things. The rich among us help the poor and we are always united. For all that we receive we praise the Creator of the universe through his Son Jesus Christ and through the Holy Spirit. On Sunday we have a common assembly of all our members, whether they live in the city or the outlying districts. The recollections of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as there is time. When the reader has finished, the president of the assembly speaks to us; he urges everyone to imitate the examples of virtue we have heard in the readings. Then we all stand up together and pray. On the conclusion of our prayer, bread and wine and water are brought forward. The president offers prayers and gives thanks to the best of his ability, and the people give assent by saying, “Amen.” The eucharist is distributed, everyone present communicates, and the deacons take it to those who are absent. The wealthy, if they wish, may make a contribution, and they themselves decide the amount. The collection is placed in the custody of the president, who uses it to help the orphans and widows and all who for any reason are in distress, whether because they are sick, in prison, or away from home. In a word, he takes care of all who are in need. We hold our common assembly on Sunday because it is the first day of the week, the day on which God put darkness and chaos to flight and created the world, and because on that same day our savior Jesus Christ rose from the dead. For he was crucified on Friday and on Sunday he appeared to his apostles and disciples and taught them the things that we have passed on for your consideration.

italo:
Anybody that is baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit...is born again.

John 3:3,5

amen

luckyCO:
You dont believe all I said. I have given you evidence that your church has long left Apostolic teaching and settled to man made doctrine but you said you are the only church but you have not proved it except quoting bible verses which you dont know the meaning and insulting people here and there.

which evidence have you given? at least you should know by now that you are lying.

luckyCO:
When I talk church here am specific about church Christ is building.
Local assembly is quaries to the body Christ is building.
Yes it has tares and wheat but they cant be part his body except you have Him in you teaching you to be like Him.

my dear, grace and the holy spirit can operate in a person independent of election.


you can be in Christ this week and in hell next month. you can be a member of the kingdom of God today and be in hell next month. you can be a part of the body today and be cutoff tomorrow. the church has both the elect and the reprobate.

Gaddafithe2nd:
Yes. They are inseparable. Just like trying to separate church of England from the royal family.

true and true

Gaddafithe2nd:
Where is the freedom of religion in Russia? To me I think the Russian orthodox church is behind this ban against other christian denominations in Russia.
Although, it is annoying when people use their religion or belief to disturb others.
You will see some churches using the speakers to constitute nuisance in the street and some mosques aren't left out also.

u may have a point, the Russian Orthodox church is very close to the government.

mansakhalifa:
How is "christianity as good as gone in that country". Have you ever heard of the Russian Orthodox church?

I even think the Orthodox in Russia are behind the whole thing, they are very close with the government.