₦airaland Forum

Omexonomy: that is frosbel for you and dont forget their are more than five people using the username Fr0sbel some are male some are female while about 2 are kid below 3years of age.

lol, take dis wan easy, i no want make frosbel vex oh! Wow, under 3yrs! U too get mouth.

Ishilove: Haha! Funny enough I don't unburden my problems to pastors. I have God for that. I only go to them for spiritual advice and guidance.

ok, enough bonding on d religion forum, u guys should go to the romance forum or just exchange email address, i'm tired of all the lovy dovy explanations. Back to bussiness please.

When its time 4 marriage u can make a thread and invite all NLanders. Until then, no more emotional rant.

italo: Then how is the Priest supposed to "forgive" or "retain" sins as Jesus empowered him to do in John 20:22,23?

...If we don't tell him the sins.

mayb he wil see ur sins in a vision.

Pastor AIO: To further buttress my point about doctrine influencing bible translations please watch this video from 29:20


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbigbuvMLQs


He makes the point a little later about Matthew 24:36. The earliest copies read that No one knows the hour of Jesus return Not even the Angels in Heaven, Not the Son, Only the Father knows.

This is obviously uncomfortable for those who consider the Son as Identical with the father. How can the father know but the Son not know. KJV solves this problem by a simple act of omission. KJV goes:

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

No mention of the son not knowing.

Other translations that some KJV adherents like to bash such as NIV quote it more properly:

New International Version (©1984)
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Others are more faithful to the original:



English Standard Version (©2001)
“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.


I hope this makes my point that preconceived doctrines influence the way that the bible is rendered. Even our most cherished and respected versions of the bible have been thus influenced. And yes, I'm a KJV adherent. (though not strictly. I just love the way it is written, I don't believe it is the only God inspired accurate version of the bible).

be very careful on dis matter, d absence of "nor d son" in matthew isnt becos it was removed by d kjv but becos dat phase is absent from many ancient manuscript of matthew. D phase is found in mark and even d kjv has it becos it is present in all manuscript. This isnt a matter of whether d kjv believes d divinity of christ, because if d kjv was simply influencing her translations it would not have "nor d son" in mark.
Besides, not just d kjv has manuscript dat doesnt have "nor d son" d drv also doesnt have nor d son in matthew but they both have it in mark.
"nor d son" is also absent from d matthew manuscript used by many earlier xtian.
This isn't some influenced translation, it is absent from many manuscript.

Pastor AIO: Yes indeed. In fact I was merely being cautious previously when I asked about the connection between John's Logos and the logos of greek philosophy because I felt that many would resist the notion. I am certain that the claim John makes for Jesus is referring to the Logos of the greek philosophers.

However my certainty is not just based on the similarity of titles, after all Jesus is given many other titles too that are derived from other places, eg King of Kings which is the title of the Kings of Persia. There are so many other correlations.

amen, amen! Intarastingly philo's logos, isnt just mouth, story, but "divine word" that begat creation.

holyvirgin: Well if quoting a newspaper is the only proof you have in 'sharing your experiences with the world' then u are making a fatal mistake.
Claiming u were an ex catholic is unaceptable, you are rather a product of a confused society where christ was never professed.
The catholic church is one place your faith is renewed, and we are everly ready to welcome you when u make up your mind to be a member

gud talk, atleast thank God frosbel didn't say all catholic are hell bound.

frosbel: ^^^

By the way Mary had other children, stop this holy virgin nonsense

this is d frosbel style, wen he has been beaten on a point, he spins d discussion off on a tangent.

frosbel: As a catholic , have you been to the vatican and some other major churches in Rome.

Well, I have and I was shocked by the immense wealth of your church , for while billions are starving the vatican is building a state that was never commanded in the scriptures and which is worth billions of dollars.

In fact Jesus said my kingdom is not of this world and he rejected all the devils promises of power and the kingdoms of the world, it seems that the usurper accepted the devils bait and plunged Christianity into one of the darkest periods in human history called the middle ages .

When the catholic church fornicates with the leaders of the world, what do you expect us to think.

You cannot paint the devil white no matter how hard you try.

"A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries." - Revelation 14:8

u are talking of u basilica's! Interesting, i've seen dem!
U are only sounding like judas, wu was against pouring xpensive oil on Jesus, oh! Sell d oil and give it to d poor, sell d places of worship and give it to d poor.

frosbel: Wrong again.

When we preach the gospel we must declare the full counsel of God.

You cannot sweep dust under the carpet and tell us the living room is clean, nay, we must totally cleanse the whole place of false doctrine to present a balanced and correct version of Christianity.

intarasting! Let d arguement bgin!

belabela: There is a deference between the catholic church and the Roman catholic church.

CATHOLIC - Universal

ROMAN CATHOLIC - Roman Universal

hahaha, really funny.

Kay 17: The fact that the Church compiled a long index of forbidden books, which included the most pivotal scientific works is good proof that the Church isn't as tolerant as you say it is.

The sponsorship of universities count for nothing if the Church is adverse to the free flow of ideas and knowledge.

In line with the topic: today's Science faces the sam opposition from the Church (inclusive of Protestants)

haha, d work on helicentrism is d only scientific work there, so i tink u are ovageneralising

Boomark: What are you venerating? Thin air?

gud question, 1 u shuld ansa.

Pastor AIO:
The Logos

Philo considers these divine powers in their totality also, treating them as a single independent being, which he designates "Logos". This name, which he borrowed from Greek philosophy, was first used by Heraclitus and then adopted by the Stoics. Philo's conception of the Logos is influenced by both of these schools. From Heraclitus he borrowed the conception of the "dividing Logos" (λόγος τομεύς), which calls the various objects into existence by the combination of contrasts ("Quis Rerum Divinarum Heres Sit," § 43 [i. 503]), and from Stoicism, the characterization of the Logos as the active and vivifying power. But Philo borrowed also Platonic elements in designating the Logos as the "idea of ideas" and the "archetypal idea".[13]
There are, in addition, Biblical elements: there are Biblical passages in which the word of Yhwh is regarded as a power acting independently and existing by itself, as Isaiah 55:11;[14] these ideas were further developed by later Judaism in the doctrines of the Divine Word creating the world, the divine throne-chariot and its cherub, the divine splendor and its shekinah, and the name of God as well as the names of the angels; and Philo borrowed from all these in elaborating his doctrine of the Logos. He calls the Logos "second god [deuteros theos]" (Questions and Answers on Genesis 2:62), the "archangel of many names," "taxiarch" (corps-commander), the "name of God," also the "heavenly Adam",[15] the "man, the word of the eternal God."
The Logos is also designated as "high priest", in reference to the exalted position which the high priest occupied after the Exile as the real center of the Jewish state. The Logos, like the high priest, is the expiator of sins, and the mediator and advocate for men: ἱκέτης,[16] and παράκλητος.[17]
From Alexandrian theology Philo borrowed the idea of wisdom as the mediator; he thereby somewhat confused his doctrine of the Logos, regarding wisdom as the higher principle from which the Logos proceeds, and again coordinating it with the latter.
[edit]Relation of the Logos to God
Philo's conception of the Logos is directly related to the Middle Platonic view of God as unmoved and utterly transcendent. As such, the Logos becomes the aspect of the divine that operates in the world—through whom the world is created and sustained.[18] Philo, in connecting his doctrine of the Logos with Scripture, first of all bases on Gen. i. 27 the relation of the Logos to God. He translates this passage as follows: "He made man after the image of God," concluding therefrom that an image of God existed. This image of God is the type for all other things (the "Archetypal Idea" of Plato), a seal impressed upon things. The Logos is a kind of shadow cast by God, having the outlines but not the blinding light of the Divine Being.

From Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philo's_view_of_God#The_Logos

did u notice d similarity btw philo's logos and titles with dat given to christ?

italo: I THINK it is okay...unless somebody can convince me otherwise.

...And that is IF it actually happened, and/or if it happened the way it has been described.

my emphasis on "if it even happened"

Omexonomy: the documents you are asking for is inside the belle of mr frosbel he eat it with strong fufu watery ofei olugbu.

hahaha, lol.

frosbel: ^^^

I am not sure it is a good thing for a church to be associated with two of the worst and most evil tyrants who ever lived, Mussolini and Hitler,

wow! Really funny, u've got d hitler case wrong!

italo: You do!

Your personal church...where you decide what is right and what is wrong; what is God's teaching and what is not... And I'm sure you also INVEST...or dont you?




You can say anything you like, it doesnt affect the Catholic Church. We dont need other people's misfortune to validate ourselves.

frosbel hates d pope! But he hasnt notice dat he has become his own pope.

frosbel: I can also say that all the stories about pastors buying jets etc are conspiracy theories, no ?
Anyway, this story has been reported by all the respectable news papers I can think of .
For example the Telegraph, Daily Mail, Guardian, Huntington post, etc

atleast i can see d jets with d pastors and d pastors affirming it. Dat way i know 4 a fact some nigerian pastors own private jet. Here on d otherhand is an article without proof.
And u were mentioning new papers, what do u know about news pappers? News papers simply broadcast new in a way to grasp their audience even wen, the new isnt exactly correct. The same newspapers u mention said d pope has banned christmas wen he never did. D same newspapers + cnn, bbc, wrote d other day dat d pope says catholic can use contraceptive wen he neva did. Oh! Even recently our own sahara reporters, said d catholic church withdrew membership of can wen she only temporary suspended participation of national activities.
When d us invasion of iraq started all d major newspapers said iraq had atomic weapons, and up till today no atomic weapon has been found.
So yes d major newspapers have been known to indulge d appetite of readers and make up, very interesting stories dat has no fact behind dem.
So my dear even frosbel newspaper can spew conspiracy theories. And unless documents can be presented d above is one of such.
Thank u.

truthislight: Since you both are saying the same thing about hell, i am not surprise you cannot do without each other.

What i wrote is there for all to see.

If the NT is quoting the OT, why do you imagined you should leave the OT to Go to the people?

Did you see "people" in my post? :

are u angry dat i was objective during d discussion?
U said to go to d jews to learn how and what sense of d OT. D jews isnt d OT, d jews are a people.
I dont have time for d accusation charade, so pls dont bring dem.

deebrain: I notice it

is dat not d point of internet forums? If u dont want to b stalked den dont post on net.

Image123: ^^ are you Jesus Christ? thanks lol.

hahaha, really funny. "d life that i live now is not mine, but christ lives in me"
"GOD works in us to will and to accomplish".
In a sense, yeah.

christemmbassey: if you pull out of CAN, how u go manage involved in the official religious scam called pilgrimage? you will go to mecca ? Boko boys are not smilling o, but how RCC no go vex? When they were there, they share the spoils to all concern, but today the PFN block carry everything and buy private jets. If na u , u go gree?

dis wasnt even among their points. They didnt even mention "private jet" in their letter to CAN.

[quote author=ekt_bear]Let the Body of Christ not be divided in Nigeria. The Catholics should remain in CAN.[/quote]d catholics havent left yet, they simply suspended their participation till mr presido can address their points. With this development it is clear mr presido wont address their points, febuary will be a plenary council of all catholic bishops in nigeria, if any decision to withdraw is taken, it will be in dat council. But with this provocative reaction by CAN i wont be too suprised if the bishops decides they've had enough.

truthislight: Hmmm!
An oath of alligance is a very big obstacle!
Hmmm!,
the scriptures are secondary.
Na wao!

where did u hear "the scriptures are secondary" certainly i never said dat. U are making dat up.

Kay 17: 1. Galileo's scriptural interpretation is separable from both Copernicus, Galileo and Keplar heliocentric model. The model doesn't fundamentally rest on the interpretation, there were mathematical and physical scale arguments which propped it. So its illogical to ban heliocentrism on a negative interpretation.

true, and galileo scriptural interpretation caused his scientific work to b treated as a theological matter.

2. The church was clearly protecting its own spiritual "truth" and if need be against the interest of science's development, which itself proves that knowledge is one, and can't be divided.

the church may have been protecting its scriptural truth, and her faithful frm what she saw as a wrong hypothesis, so i may give u dat point too.

3. Against the false image of the church you presented, the Church didn't sponsor and promote scientific development. The church maintained a censor over scientific works as seen of Kepler and Copernicus's works and other scientists.

this is a joke, apart from d helicentric stuff, can u give me a list of d scientists work that were censored? U are making a presumption that cant be sustained. Most of d university in those times were both owned and sponsored by the catholic, not to talked of d fact that many of d so called fathers of science are catholic priest and laymen. Ur third point is unsustainable.

Pastor AIO: I earlier suggested Story or Mouth were just as useful as 'word', and it was met with derision in some posts that followed it. Apparently 'Word' automatically conveys something to such readers. What I do not understand is what that is and how that is related to the Greek idea of Logos. And further, why is 'story' so inadequate a rendering? I have no gripe with rendering it as Thought or Reason. Yet I am most interested above all that the Idea behind Logos is conveyed to the christian.

To me it is clear that what is being said is that there is a FORMAT to the universe, the original INTENDED format from which the world is created. However the universe has strayed from this format. Subsequently a person can seek to re-align and harmonise to the Original format, OR remain at odds with it. This is what I understand as Logos. Thought/Reason will convey some of this as the format is not concrete (physical) but an abstraction, an idea. Story can also render it because a story has a format.

Word would perhaps make a reader ask questions, it ought to, but what we find instead is that people too readily assume they know what it means and the meaning they conclude is a far cry from what is suggested by Logos. Why 'word' fails so spectacularly to convey it in English I don't know, however it evidently does as you can see by asking around.

why not read a little on philo's logos maybe u will get an idea of, d concept of logos dat existed in d time of john.

truthislight: imagined greeks and Romans owning Jewish inheritance and tradition.

ignoratio elenchi, i didnt say this, u are attacking ur own strawman.

Christianity originated from the Jews. QED.

Only someone that wants to be deceived has time for adultration.

i didnt object to this either, ignoratio elenchi.
I said, John who was reaching a principally greek audience will speak in a way understood by dem.

italo: Exactly what we believe and exercise when we go to confession.



The priests are our brothers in Christ...and they were empowered to forgive and retain sins in John 20:22,23 by the same JESUS CHRIST.

So take up your issues with Jesus.

mayb d next objection will b dat d priest isnt a brother in christ.

italo: I'M still trying to understand what is BAD about that...

...Or is something BAD just because it was done by the Catholic Church?

my own contention is dat d article has no proof. U just can say ubenedictus took abacha's money and bought aso rock, no!
First u have to prove aso rock belongs to ubenedictus, u must again prove dat abacha owns d said money and thirdly show proof dat ubenedictus took d money. If these three request can't be met then u have a baseless accusation devoid of merit and at best a conspiracy theory. This is exactly what frosbel's article have refused to provide, frosbel is peddling another conspiracy theory.

Be careful with ur accusations, i do not know d image guy, but i think he hit d nail on da head

truthislight: Its like frosbel and Kunle were right about you that you are a fraud.
I said one should go to the "Jewish OT" in my write up but you instead wish to attack a different topic as to cover the truth Revelation pointed out.
Did i ask that anybody should go to the Jewish people or that they should go to the Jewish OT?
Smh for you.

this is what u said!

truthislight: "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 22:19).
,,,,,,,,,,,,,..........
^^^
1. it shows that human can tamper with it.
2. But they will loose out on everlasting life.
3. But "this book" will ever be around by God's will for all times.
Translation to pigin english and dialect may not always employ the right words to convey the original sense for lack of appropriate words. (being that they are pegan and use of pegan words)
But that ^^ should not introduce pegan idears into the word of God.
We can always go back to the Jews to learn what and how such sense was used in the OT, being that lots of sense in the NT is quoting the OT.
Peace.

u never said we shuld go back to d jewish OT, instead u said "we can alway go back to d jews to learn in how and what sense was used in d OT". The jews refer to a people not d OT. In essence u said we shuld go to d jewish pipo to learn how and what sense was used in d ot. Image was correct, u said to go to d jews.
Peace

elampiro: I don't think it is out of Jealousy. We have to remember Pastor Tunde Bakare has been criticizing the interwoven(ing) of Pastors with the government. And we know Bakare is a Pentecostal pastor too. The other day, the CBN governor, Mallam Sanusi said CAN and its Islamic counterpart are no longer religious bodies but political bodies honouring government officials, hence they should both be banned.

Let's try and look at this issue objectively and listen more to what both parties will be saying next. There might be more issues which are not being made public. I know the Catholic priests are humble, so I doubt any envy stuff in this whole saga. Fingers crossed for now while awaiting more development.

first of all d catholic church says she didnt withdraw from CAN but has suspended her participation in CAN's national activities until presido addresses d issues they raised in november.
CAN has replied, and they have showed they lack listening ears, their response was "leave".
The response from d catholic church will be in febuary wen all d bishops will hold a plenary council, i think d can case will come up and all d bishops will decide wether it is time to forsake dialogue a withdraw membership or it is to call for more dialogue.
Until then, i'll keep watching d developments.

salvarhymes: guy u just said d truth. I live in warri where he stays so i can confirm it.... It was i gift nt dat he bought it.... Meanwhile, he has tried for CAN. I guess they hav another reason of running. Also, they fail to remember dat d pope Benedict or whatever dey call him is a right hand man of president obama. They r blind jare

hahaha, if d pope was obama's righ handman, why is obama persecuting catholic in america? Or are u not aware dat there are several suite against obama by d catholic church in american courts, d catholic are treathening to go as far as d supreme court.
Ur lies have caught up wit u.