₦airaland Forum

olubat: Congrats my Lord a well deserved honor may the almighty God see you through in Jesus name Amen.
Next is Bishop Martins O and Matthew Kukah

that wont happen anytime soon, best prediction is that d arch diocese of benin will soon have a card.

Logicboy03: Lying again? No one knows the financial position or worth of the bank as its operations are kept secret and guarded by italian laws.

The were money laundering charges of worth millions of dollars against the bank directors. Surely, they must be making a lot of money for that to happen

d vatican has a bank and u dont know d worth yet u claim nigerian bishops exploit nigeria and take it to d vatican. Wow beautiful proof.

truthislight: @Anyigala

This is a very simple analysis.

Now, looking at that scripture again, we can get the points out without being too emotional.

1. What was the context/subject of the discussion?

Lets see:

matthew 16:13. When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”
^^^
now this is the bone of the discuss " who Jesus is" and it was base on the subject "Jesus" and who he is that every other statement falls in place and refers to.

14 They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 “But what about you?” He asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

^^^
this is the answer that Jesus subsequent statement Refers to.

Meaning, now that the truth has been reveal as to my identity (know that it is on this revelation) christ revealed identity, "that i will build my church"

So, christ was refering to himself and his reveal identity when he made that statement and not to peter.


17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in Heaven. 18 And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome It.

^^^
note the statement "THIS"

on this rock(the subject under consideration = christ identity) this rock, i will build my church.

The expect of the key was to peter and other elders, cause whatever they bind on earth is also bind in heaven.

Rightly, peter used that key to open the door to the gentiles christians.

If the aspect of the rock was to peter where in the scriptures did peter play the role of the rock?

are u thru? Now tell me wu was Jesus talking to wen he said "i will give u d keys" was he talking to himself?

debosky: Which Aramaic text are you referring to? What is the age of the Aramaic text? If the Greek text is older than the Aramaic text (indicating the latter Aramaic was translated from Greek) do you trust the older Greek or the Aramaic translated from the Greek?

The oldest texts for Matthew are in Greek, hence you cannot take an Aramaic translation above the oldest Greek texts.

Petros is NOT equal to Petra, meaning Jesus wasn't talking about Peter when he mentioned the large, immovable Rock on which he would build His Church.

dis is a very stupid arguement, if u want to know y petrous is used ask questions and stop displaying ignorance.

alexleo: We cannot subscribe to nonsense catholic belief. I see no connection with apostle Peter and your catholic that is deceiving people

since in u decitful mind "u are d rock and upon dis rock i will build my church" Jesus was talking to himself, please tell me wen he said "i will give u d keys of d kingdom" was he also talking to himself?

truthislight: item 10 in this post shows how paul directed that congregation or early churches should exchange letters.

peter:
1. "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness." (2 Peter 3:16-17).
(note: his epistle)

Paul:
2. "The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write." (2 Thessalonians 3:17).

(note: every epistle)

3. "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thessalonians 2:15).
(note: our epistle)

4. "And Tychicus have I sent to Ephesus. The cloke that I left at Troas with Carpus, when thou comest, bring with thee, and the books, but especially the parchments." (2 Timothy 4:12-13).

5. "Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction." (2 Corinthians 13:10).

6. "I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:" (1 Corinthians 5:9).
(note: his epistle)

7. "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat." (1 Corinthians 5:11).
(note: I have written unto you)

8. "Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not." (Galatians 1:20).
( I write unto you,)

9. "How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)" (Ephesians 3:3-4).

(note: as I wrote afore in few words,)

Congregations to exchange letters :

1. "And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea." (Colossians 4:16).

My Conclussion:
I am really afraid for you (Ubenedictus) that somehow christ may have died in vein in your own case because of your looking at the wrong direction due to your RCC.

This are letters that the apostles wrote but you and your RCC wish to deceived people that you on them.

You have cause many people to lose faith and turn to atheist
Lets wait on God as the one to judge you and your RCC on this.
No thanks.

u only provided a quote that says ONE LETTER should be shared with laodiceans and ANOTHER shuld b taken frm d loadiceans. U have failed to show me that all the letter of paul was present in all congregation. U just have one passage i expect one passage per letter as proof dat all congregation had all letter.

^^^ liar!
your word, no "one put in ink"
2Timothy 2:2 your idea of the apostles:

"And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also." (2 Timothy 2:2).

1tim2:2 just proved my point, what u HEARD of me COMMIT to FAITHFUL MEN wu shall be able to TEACH OTHERS. That is how d bible tells me d word of God was transmitted. If u cant accept that become a pagan.
Besides im nt suprised u have that to say abt d catholic church even it was said of Jesus "this child is set 4 d rise and fall of many in israel, and a sign that is spoken against..." if christ is spoken against im nt suprised if u speak against his church my bible says "if they condemn u remember they condemned me first"

[quote author=tomakint][/quote]good question, wen u provide pipo with sticks to fight amored tanks is that not genocide? Wen u go to war wen u know u dont have food and cant adequately provide for urself is that not genocide? U were short on ammo and decided to war, is that not genocide? By all standards ojukwu decleared a genocidal war. He refused to surrender early even though he knew he cant win.

Boomark: Na wa o. Are you saying that what God did to make Christ our mediator is not enough?

i have warned u abt ur silly questions bt u wont learn, did italo deny that christ Jesus is our mediator? Pleas u nid to improve.

To the op, please make responses to the view presented on your thread, please dont make the thread dull.

chukwudi44: No one is saying rome is the only apostolic see.Antioch,Alexandria,Jerusalem and several others but none is reffered to having possessed supremacy.

Can you provide any link where st Augustine refers to any other church as having supremacy?

What do you understand by the terms 'supremacy' and supreme'?

pls enigma provide d quotes and dont forget to answer my question on whether or not u wish to bring greg as evidence.

Enigma: By the way, here is another one I made earlier.

https://www.nairaland.com/1057120/german-catholics-face-excommunication-over/2#12320908

If only the Roman Catholics would listen and pay careful attention to the words of somebody whom they would quickly lay claim to as "one of them".

From the words of Gregory I or Gregory the Great/the Dialogist then as simply Bishop of Rome (or according to Roman Catholics, "Pope" Gregory I).

now this is becoming interesting. I wish to ask you enigma DO YOU WISH TO BRING GREG MY FRIEND AS EVIDENCE? Please answer so we can discuss ur text if u cant answer this never bring greg into the discussion again.

Logicboy03: Kai, Ubenedictus and Chukwudi, una no well!


See, as my guyz just finish Enigma.

logic boy u no serious,

Pastor AIO: I don't recall ever saying that if d literal sense makes sense then seek no other sense.

neither do i, it is a popular phase on nairaland and i wanted to generalise.

Pastor AIO: Ube. . . why you dey quiz me like this na? I didn't say anything is referring to any 'body of . . .'. I said that someone's reasoning/interpretation was interesting. Ingenious.


Now you want to hang me for that. Why you no go ask the pesin wey talk the thing originally? This is mightily unfair of you.

im very sorry, i thought u were d one wu made d point that Jesus was refering to "a body of..." i probably made a mistake.

Pastor AIO: I wonder why this authority only applies to all christians 'to some extent'. Yet Bishops get the full extent.

read my responds above enigma, those bishops gat an office.

Enigma: On this occasion I will assume you have misunderstood my point rather than accuse you of lying.

First of all the so-called "primacy of Peter" is not and does not mean primacy of the Roman Catholic Church.

Above all, this thread is about the interpretation of Matthew 16: 18. Therefore my point with Augustine, Basil, John Chrysostom, Gregory Nazanzius etc etc etc is that they interpreted Mathew 16:18 as conferring authority on Peter as well as on all bishops worldwide and wherever --- and to some extent even on all Christians.

In short, these early "church fathers" (and who were mostly NOT Roman Catholics) did not apply Matthew 16:18 to "papal primacy".

And with them, I conclude that Matthew 16:18 does not provide any doctrinal basis for the claims of the Roman Catholic Church of "papal supremacy".

The Roman Catholic claim of "papal supremacy" is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ and of the apostles.

Go and read Chrysostom and the others on their interpretation of Matthew 16:18 and learn, with honesty and humility, how they interprete the passage.

ur problem is that u have failed to realise dat d primacy of d roman see is derived from that of peter. enigma wants to play d new church fada, do u want me to provide d texts so u will show me wu has preeminent authority?

Boomark: You and some of your friends already have the fruit of the pagan spirit.

What true Christians should have is the fruit of the Holyspirit. Read Gal 5:22 and start practicing them.

By their fruits you shall know them.

hahahaha, one reason y nobody shuld take u serious.

frosbel: Are you worshipping the saviour who was crucified or the object used to crucify our saviour , you guys are really something else.

Jesus is not enough for you , you must ask Mary and the dead saints to also pray for you while bowing before a cross.

Oh by the way, did you also know that making the sign of the cross is a Babylonian mystery straight from the books of the occult .

Don't let me call you a Pagan !!

hahaha, now i must laugh in greek, frosbel u are too superstitious that is ur problem, if ur kid draws a triangle u will rebuke him because that is illuminati and if he draws d 4 cardinal point u will scream babylonian mystery!!! Oh lord how i love u!!! If i wrote comic books i would write one on frosbel.

plappville: The Catholic is full of idolatry period, what are you defending each time?

dis is d most funny thimg about anti-catholics, they want to teach u what u believe. How can u teach me what i believe wen u dont believe it?

ijawkid: Lol......
Ask them o no ask me....cross no hang for my house.....

i clearly remember paul saying "i preach christ crucified". If am sleeping and my mouth cant say it them my art will do the speakin for me. If u are incapable of xpressing ur beliefs dont blame me.

ijawkid: SMH!!!!!!

My advice::::

If the ark of covenant is your problem why don't you re-make it and bow before it or put it in your cathedral......

Since the only life line you have is that Yahweh (commanded) the isrealites to make the ark of covenant.....


Why don't you keep making the ark of covenant??...

Why is it now marys image,the cross anÐ the images of sÀints??.....

Just mention one apostle who made an image of mary and the cross....

Did your favorite peter(the 1st pope according to you and your cohorts) use images in worship??

Please tell me

ijawkid: Which one??

The one for the ark of covenant or that useless carved image of mary...??

u shuld try d law profession, because in ur prejudice u are incapable of truth

ijawkid: What rubbish question is this??

Lol.....

u want a bible pasage dat say "make an image of mary", u shuld simply provide one that says "make a Nt".
Then ur arguement would stop sounding weak.

See let me tell you...the reasons why the Jews in the 1st place had or made a temple with all its interiors through Yahwehs command,the ark of covenant was because the messiah hadn't come.....those laws were temporary........they only for shadowed something better.......

hahaha, d end point is jews can use images but christians cant. Weldone.

Jesus has come and gone,.....

What have I to do with a womans image??

was ur saviour born of a man?

Or the cross??or the rosary??

y wont i have a crucifix it show what i preach, paul said "i preach Jesus crucified", oh i forgot it is folly to d "intelligent ones".

Why should I make the cross sign when I pray.....is ""in Jesus name"" not enough??

this made me remember my jw friend wu said "it is wrong to pray to Jesus, u shuld pray to yahweh alone" i couldnt stop laughing.

It means Jesus' coming was useless......

Hehehehehe....
Sorry about your name....e too long....lol....

I'll shorten and love-vendor it to """UBE""

in one of d numerous edo language "ube" is translated "pear", u knw those little pear eaten with maize in d south during d rainy season?

ijawkid: Is mary the new ark of covenant??

Or is it the rosary??

Is marys image replacing the ark of covenant of old??

If Yes who gave the command for the transition to be made??

If No why bow down to a womans image??

Is that not insanity??

Please answer me.......

i have a friend wu would be very interested in the topic "mary, d new ark of d covenant", mind u he uses scripture to show it. But bringing that into dis discusion will be "given what is holy to dogs". If u cant see that images can b legit in d bible then u are very blind and bringing a new topic wont help ur prejudice.

ijawkid: But you read in the bible where it was Yahweh himself who gave the isrealites strict directives on how the temple should be built and all its interiors.......no isrealite presumptuously carved in images or objects in Gods temple...if it wasn't in Gods list of maxims then no isrealite tresppased...

when it comes to matters of worship,God always gave the commands not we humans assuming what should be done...

That is why I keep asking who gave the command for marys image and the cross to be used in worship??

You use the rosary,you make the cross sign while praying and you bow down to marys image......

That is blatant idolatry....

The one that annoys me more is marys image and when you pray through mary.....

I hate that act with all my strength...it shows gross disrespect for God and his son Jesus...

Who is mary that she should be a mediator of Christians??

Who even look mary face during the 1st century....

hypocrisy, d isrealites could use images, that is right but if xtians use them then it is wrong well done. As early are d time of d apostles there were xtian art and some from 70ad still survive. U are not serious, trying to take u seriously is a waste of precious time.

ijawkid: Ubenidictus follow Gods precepts......

The temple which God even commanded to be built is all gone......

Everything!!!!!....

The ark of covenant too is squashed and gone.........
Jesus has come and gone back......

Who started the use of marys image and the cross in worship??...

Who??

Was it Joshua that started it??..
Was it the 1st century christian??

Was it peter??

Was it paul??

Who?


who gave the injunction for you to make an image of mary,bow down to it and pray??

Who??

Did Jesus tell you to do that??

Who??

Please just tell me who and I'll leave this post.......

..........

God's precept says images can be legitimatly used and i follow it, d above is more like a joke

ijawkid: And if at this age of christianity you don't know that matters involving worship to God has to be precepts that are set in the scriptures then I can't help...wait for God to decide how he should be worshipped,not we presuming......God is not our boy boy we choose to worship the way we like......

just show me where d bible says d new testament scripture shuld be used wen worshiping God then ur arguement will have a little foot to stand on.

Don't let traditions of men beclowd your head,,,,
The use of the cross ,rosary,marys image,images of saints in worship is pure tradition of men...it never originated with the early apostles.......

i yet we just show u that d bible shows a legit use of images yet u have a bible.
Ijawkid how come ur bible shows a legit use of images yet u stand on top ur pupit and condemn images.

Ubenidictus you dey fall my hand!!!!!!!.......

I can't believe that you would defend the use of marys image in worship....

I'm disappointed full time...

i have noticed that u have neva spelt my username correctly d word is "ubenedictus" not "ubenidictus". It is "benedictus" as in benedicimus, benedicete, benedicamus, benedict, benedicta and benedictus.
And im also very disappointed in u, because again and again u have displayed hypocrisy.

ijawkid: You bow down to marys image and recite""holy mary mother of God please pray for us""...

If this is not idolatry please tell me what is??


Who told you mary prays for you??

How can mary be praying for the 1 billion catholics worldwide??is she omniscient and present??

Wetin dey worry ona for head??

Image here and there......

joshua PROSTRATED before a tablet inside a big ark and chanted "oh sovereign lord" haha is that also idolatry? Weytin dey wrong with ur head? (bact at ya).
If it isnt then u are a hypocrite.

ijawkid: What does that dead rosary do for you??what does marys image do for you??

Why bow down to marys image??

It is idolatry....

Who commanded you to erect it??Jesus or some later pope??

at d begining of d arguement ijawkid was against anything image, now he is only against marys image. Again i accuse u of hypocrisy.
If d image of a lion, cherubim, etc are commanded to be right there in d worship place, why wont d image of Jesus and his mum? U nid a passage that say "make an image of mary" show me one that say "make a new testament scripture" if u cant then u have no case.

ijawkid: See o!!!!!!!!!!.........

No vex na......

My point is where precepts are not laid down we should not act presumpteously...this is what I always tell you......

If you have to imitate Joshua and moses wait until Yahweh or his son Jesus commands you to make images of mary and the cross in order to use them in worship......

this is one reason i dont look forward to a discusion with you. You said it is wrong to use images, we have shown you legit use of images in d bible, u said it is wrong to bow near or around or facing them, we have shown u how joshua prostrated b4 them, u said it is wrong to talk b4 them, we showed u that joshua did that. At the end u are telling me about "MARY'S IMAGE" is mary's image or Jesus image an outcast? What is done b4 other images cant be done b4 them hahahaha. Ijawkid that is hypocrisy.
ijawkid wants a new revelation hahaha, the last revelation God did he spoke his all, infact he spoke his own Word, i believe that anyone looking for another revelation is simply joking with God. His word already told his church "whatever u bind on earth is bound in heaven" i have that beautiful authority to sleep on. If u are looking 4 a new wordwide revelation then u are luking 4 d anti christ. Gudluck finding that.

joe4christ: Exedus 20:3-5
[size=15pt] 3“You shall have no other gods before a me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of
anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in
the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or
worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous
God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to
the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
[/size]

it says i shuldnt make an idol that is i shuldnt make an object of worship, i havent done that so even accding to d law im free.

ijawkid: Yahweh gave the command before the isrealites made the ark of covenant...Yahweh gave the command before moses erected the copper abi bronze serpent........faithfull isrealites didn't presumpteously carved images to please God...they didn't....you guys have presupmteously made an image of mary and bowing down to it day and night....who gave you the command to make marys image??did Jesus give that command??who instigated it??..........no early christian had marys image nor prayed through mary......you guys haven't opened one scripture...



Did Jesus heal anybody at that wedding at cana??Jesus just changed water into wine....


And did the persons who came to meet mary,pray through mary??did they pray??



Is mary still pleading for the water in your house to turn into shepke??....

Can you again please give another instance were people had to run to mary to plead on there behalf for Jesus to heal them or solve
there problems??

I don't believe in online stories of miracles...I need biblical examples....show me were people prayed through mary to get healings in bible times........I'm waiting......






And who is anthony of padua..is that a scriptural character??...open the bible .....



When one makes images outside Gods direct instructions and commands its tantamount to idolatry....show me from the bible who told you to make marys image and pray through it....its simple...open the scritpures....

u of all pipo is asking 4 biblical characters, is russel a biblical character? Yet he founded ur church.
Ur arguement says yahweh said dont make images then u even go futher and said "yahweh commanded them to make images" yet u cant see how ur interpretation contradicts u. Ha! Ijawkid read b4 u post.

ijawkid: Don't let me catch you bowing down in front of marys image and chanting ""holy mary mother of God please pray for us"".....

If that isn't idolatry,then what is??...

The isrealites didn't pray through the ark of covenant......get that!!!!!....

d same way i dont pray thru d image of mary, images do not interceed.