₦airaland Forum

plaetton: Your ability for mental gymnastics is simply amazing. You are giving me an assignment? .
For what purpose, to prove my points or yours? You are very funny.

You are, I assume,are a medium to high IQ individual. Do not pretend to be any less.
You cannot rely on just one source as authentic histroy without relying on other contempraneous soures to get a full picture of historicsl facts and trends.
Now, if you are adamant that you would not consider any evidence outside our your bible in evaluating historical facts, then I say boldy that you are therefore not qualified to argue and have this calibre of debate.

My point was to establish first of all that yahweh was one among a pantheon of gods that the ancient hebrews acknowledged and at times worshipped.
By the same token I wanted to prove that yahweh was known in Canaan, perhaps by another name, in this case El- Shaddai, whom , I have proved, was one of the pantheon of Canaanite gods.

I used the both the bible and the Ugarith texts,a genuine ,historically and scientifically accepted original texts, free from eclesiastical tampering, redactions, revisions, translations and transliterations, to to butress my argument that El-Shaddai, aka Yahweh, was one among a pantheon of Hebrew and Canaanite Gods.

You seem to be desperately clutching at straws.
WTF else (excuse my language) are you tallking about?

Pls tell me which part of your bible you do not agree with first, before you begin to repudiate the Ugarith texts, as I am expecting you to do.

However, if you intend to repudiate the Ugarith texts, you would either have to quote a historical or an academic authority repudiating and giving alternate renderings, or, you wuold have to author a peer reviewable academic treatise of your own. Nothing short of these would suffice.
Your blind faith in the scriptures alone will not measure up in this particular case.
Ok?

im very sorry for jumping into your arguement, i have been following it from page one, it seems you didnt notice that you just distroyed your arguement using your own texts. *The 'documentary' u provided showed that the canaanites truly worship a great many gods and the hebrews live among them and most probably borrowed many of their gods, yes! But it didnt stop there, *ur 'documentary' also shows that the prophets of the old testament condemn those many gods and ascribed their names, titles and 'porfolio' to the one God of israel wu they called yahweh, *ur 'documentary' also showed that d israelites were known to betray their 'one God' and go back to d gods of the canaanites and the bible bears witness to that. We will fooling ourselves if u considered one point and throw two others away, ur documentary didnt say d bible admits to many gods, instead it says d psalmist and prophet transfered the names titles and 'porfolio' of those gods to yahweh thru a process called assimilation.
Please if my analysis of ur proof seem baise to ur texts pls fault it. The texts u provided didnt say d bible preached many gods instead it say the writter of d bible transfered d porfolio of the gods of the canaanites to the God of israel.
Atlast it goes back to square one. Yous proof texts doesnt support ur hypothesis that the authors of the bible were using el and yahweh to refer to two gods instead it support anony and co who maintain that the God of the bible is one even those d bible ascribes all d good qualities of d canaanite gods to him.
Do you get my point?

U guyz will soon tell me dat por@nography isnt a sin because it isnt in d bible. Ha! Olorun o! E shanu mi! I warn every christian wu is really engaging in sexually acts of any kind to take time and ask himself what is d purpose of my sexuality? And ask himself if that act fulfils d purpose.
Peace

frosbel: Is MAN mortal or immortal.

Is there any part of MAN that will live forever when he dies or does the whole man die.

Note : All answers must be backed up with scripture.

Thanks,

d body returns to dust, d spirit to God wu gave it. Is that simply enough?

Boomark: wetin dis one min be say, trinity defense from the bible na cut and join and quench. With twists and lots of mysteries wherever they quench.

again u no dey make sense

ijawkid: The son remains a servant for all eternity....

where is it in scriptures. My bible say phi2:6 show dat he only took d position of a servant wen he came to save us.

From past ,present, and forever the son remains a servant of Yahweh.....even before Jesus' descension to earth he was Yahwehs. Holy servant........

where is it in d bible?

........
You saying Jesus wasn't created by God is like saying Jesus wasn't ressurected by God.....
1st born applied to Jesus in all respect shows Jesus was part of Gods works and powers,but he was 1st....

Was it ressurection??Jesus was the 1st. To be ressurected from the dead,while Jesus became the agent through which God would ressurect millions....
Was it creation??Jesus was the 1st thing or person God created ,while he(Jesus) after been the 1st of Gods creative works became the agent through which God created all other things or persons....
Don't you get the point??

no! U made no point. I didnt see where it said Jesus was created. Where is it?

ijawkid: ....
If u deny that God isn't the cause of Jesus' existence then we have to settle that through Jesus we didn't get life....God is the cause of everything....he kick started Jesus's existence.....the way u try to dodge from this lucid truth bewilders me.....would you have existed if your Father didn't beget you.....now that is humans who marry and re produce....

i didnt deny anything, the fada is d 'cause' of the son, that doesnt make d son 'created', he was begoten.

Your dad pro-created or re-produced you...
In Gods case creation is the only option.....bcause God did not marry any woman...use your head pan my catholic bro.....

my bible didnt say so. I cant find wherd d bible says God can only create, he cant beget.

1 corinthians says God created not give birth like a woman would beget a child......

that isnt in d bible

Creation is the only option my bro.....Jesus was created....the evidence is in front of you.....Jesus is the 1st born son of God......

Jesus is the 1st of Gods creative works...........

where is it in d bible? What i can find is begotten, i cant find created.

Boomark: As in, everything is clear with with link mechanism. If you want it in chain reaction, e dey.

Its not like cut and join and quench.

weytin dis one min?

ijawkid: So now you understand that Christs dominion does not include the Father abi??

i wasnt argueing that point.

U understand that Christ been over all excludes the Father who Christ himself is a servant and subject to abi??...

being "servant" is a position he took for us phil 2:6, as for subjection, he has by relation always been subject to the fada.

So I hope that you can now rationally conclude that Christ is head over all other things abi??

he is head over all things, by thing d scriptures means created things. GOD isnt among "all things

Why??
Because he is subject to some 1 who is God and Father over Him.....

by d very fact dat d fada is fada that means by relation d son is 'subject'.

ijawkid: You should be asking why I put"" other"" na....

d word 'other' is not there, u added it. U are trying to make d word of God say what it doesnt say.
U are introducing words into scriptures.

The answers have been staring right @ you.....

Jesus is the 1st born of God.......

yeah

Jesus is the 1st of Gods creative works.....

this isnt in the bible

Let's read 1 corinthians 8:6

New Living Translation (©2007)
But we know that there is only one God, the
Father, ""who created everything"", and we live
for him. And there is only one Lord, Jesus
Christ, through whom God made everything and
""through"" whom we have been given life.
......

thru him was everything made. The bible says nothing was made but by him. U are contradicting d bible, unles u are sayin he contradicted himself

Let me bring out some pertinent points...

1....1 .God who created everything(including Jesus)...

my bible didnt say Jesus was created

2....Jesus through whom God created everything(excluding Christ himself who God created 1st)....
...........

I had quoted a scripture in John. Which shows God is the source and cause of Jesus' life....

John 6:57......
New Living Translation (©2007)
I live because of the living Father who sent
me; in the same way, anyone who feeds on me
will live because of me.


God is the source of Jesus' life....Jesus exists and live because of God the Father.....

The minute u realize this truth the better for you....

That is Jesus speaking there.....

Jesus exist because of d fada, that doesnt make him created. I exist cos of my dad dat doesnt mean my dad created me, no i he gave gave birth to me.

Boomark: What is the meaning of "until" in Greek? If i know what 'until' means i will now know whether He will stop sitting with the Father.

it is simply used as a conjunction and doesnt necesary imply b4 and after. See link [url]http://www.academia.edu/1040859/The_implications_of_until_in_English_and_Greek[/quote]

No! His dominion over us has no end while He is subject to the Father and the Father remains all in all(no exceptions). Can you fault that?

his dominion has been that he is all in all, that dominion has no end, he will alway b over all creature becos he created them all, so is the fada wu Jesus is subordinate to by relation.

Good. Out of the Fathers substance He came be. Just like out your fathers substance you came to be. If you want, sumersault the meaning it must click.

sumersault what?

everything trinititous is against the word of God.

mtcheeewwww

ijawkid: All(other) things were created through Christ........

and your bible explains what being the arkhe of some else's work means...

That is what you have been running away from....

Jesus is the beginning of Gods creative works.....

The truth is right in front of you......

I think 1 corinthians 8:5-6 would solve your problem...

since wen does d word all mean "other"? Liar! Try again

truthislight: Just see the way you people just gather together dey spoil trinitarian and tithers their business!

Ugoamaka will report you people to the pope.

hahaha, u shuld try d comedy business

maclatunji: Hello my dear friends. Would you be kind enough to answer me question?

i believe d name is allah, allah d almight etc

saintvc: I have heard of good atheist who are honest, kind, caring,charitable etc. They give freely than most christians .

Their only shortcoming is non belief in God's existence.

Dont u think they can make heaven?

invisible ignorance can lessen d gravity of his offence. By d mercy of God he may make it. But this is the most dangerous position "if ye are neither not nor cold i will spit u out.

frosbel: No idea , but I doubt if we will ever agree on this subject of the Trinity. I have spent weeks and even months investigating this dogma with the bible , various historical resources and books running into hundreds of pages, and I am now more than ever convinced that the Trinity is a dangerous doctrine, the so called depature from the faith as mentioned by Paul and the spirit of the anti-christ as mentioned by John.

When we deny that Jesus was 100% flesh and bones , albeit with a divine origin, we totally destroy the gospel of our salvation , because if he was not fully man but was also GOD , what chance do we have to repeat his great feats of denying the flesh, overcoming sin, defeating the devil and obeying the father onto death.

I mean if Jesus was 1/2 God then all the feats he achieved were 'pretend ones' because we all know that God can do anything.

I sent you an article which I doubt you opened talk less of read, but it contains a very detailed analysis of the origin of the Trinity and tears to pieces this dogma and states in no uncertain terms it's danger to our walk with GOD.

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons - 1 Timothy 4:1

i saw this and decided to ask if u will let me give u a little work on the trinity, after reading and analysing u will show me the errors in the work. May i present the work?

Enigma: Christ Himself IS eternal life; he existed eternally with the Father.

To know when Jesus Christ "began" to exist is to know when God The father "began" to exist.

Oh, and it is also to know when The Holy Spirit "began" to exist.


1 John 1:2

amen

ilugunboy: When you see everything as been wrong in your family...and everything right in outsiders....then I begin to question your paternity.

Omo ale l'onfi owo osi ju wee ile baba ee!

hahaha!

la cosa nostra: MR FROSBEL why did u run from Mr Anony on dis same thred when he asked who Jesus is to u, but u came back to argue trinity

that is frosbel for u, wen he was asked abt d pre existence of Jesus he dodged and started shouting "trinity heresy!".

lagerwhenindoubt: lol how can I reject what I don't fully understand

so far u have shown that u dont understand

and why would I hate the RCC.. unless they are responsible for the dent on the side of my SUV

hahahaha, so funny.

ijawkid: nope....infact in hebrews 5 Jesus was to be a high priest in the manner of melchizedek....

In either way u look at it from your blind trinitarian point of view melchizedek too had no beginning....

So i want u to prove melchizedek had a beginning,then we can talk...

Hebrews plainly says melchizedek had no beginning and end....

and it also says christ has no begining and end. I have noting to prove. U are d person wu shuld b telling me y u tink christ has a bging wen my bible says he doesnt.

ijawkid: oh now i see why you are confused....

My definition was on ""arkhe of"" ....not just arkhe alone....

Oya back to business....

is "arkhe 'of'" a greek phase? Since wen did "of" become a greek word?

The point is Jesus is the ""beginning of"" of the creation of God....

wen interpreted that simply mean Jesus is the source of Gods creation, he is the source. That is why d bible says "by him all things are created"

"beginning of" is the point i'm bringing out.....

And ofcus animals are flesh and blood...arent they??

Both we and animals are souls...flesh and blood...abi animals na flesh and water??

does that make animals human?

All persons in heaven are spirits....there is no dodging this bro.....

All the scriptures i quoted as my basis for this discussion used the expression ""beginning of""::::

read the verses i quoted from genesis and deuteronomy......

It seems u've been playing blind

sorry, u hv been d person playing blind, i cant find any scholar that interprete arche as created. Where is ur source?

So I'll ask the same questions again....and this time listen well ::::

1,,..Can the Father also be called the ""beginning of"" the creation of God??

the fada is also source of creation so yes that is why he says "im the bgining..."

2...Can the Father be called the 1st born of all creation??

if by "firstborn" preeminence is meant then yes the fada can b called the "firstborn of creation"

3...Can the Father be called the 1st born of God??

no! Because d fada wasnt begotten, just d was u cant call d son "unbegotten" u cant call d fada "begotten"

Start answering with scriptures......

u didnt ask questions like "does scripture call d fada___? U asked "cam d fada be called___? And i answered u accding. D question didnt need passages.

http://em.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arche the bible says that all things were created by christ, how can he wu created ALL thing be created? Did he create himself? My bible say he is d arche of God's creation, and i believe, he is the source of creation.

Boomark: TWISTER! What is the meaning of until in greek b4 they translate it to English.

what did i twist? Did d son stop sitting with his fada? Answer me!

God is all in all over all that He heads. Christ and man too to all they head. By that time, Christ should have reconciled everything back to our God so that he will be all in all.

my point is dat d dominion of christ has no end. Can u fault that?

Co-equality is what you can never prove in this world. Once one is subject to the other. No matter how you twist it.

it is sumtin i have proved again and again, bt u have eyes nd u dnt see

please tell us what begotten means in Greek b4 they translate it to english.

simply to born, to sire a child, to bring him forth from ur substance. In d literal sense it doesnt mean to create. My dad didnt create me he sire me, unless u wish to interprete it with biology.

What i noticed is that may be you want to become rev father and we are trying to chatter your childhood dream. Therefore you say any thing just to keep your dream alive.

hahaha, and u just luv keeping ur own opinions even wen it contradicts d word of God.

ijawkid: Shut up and listen......

Answer these questions...

1...Can we say that the Father is the beginning of the creation of God??

Did the Father say he ""is the beginning of the creation of God""??

did u interprete d sentence "beging of creatn of Gd"? No u only interpreted d word bgining and u said it implys a creature, are u denying u said dat?

U haven't answered that,your focusing on the word beginning alone....you have still not started thinking........

Till you answer the very question I'm asking you will always be deluded....

""BEGINNING of""....

That's what we are considering........

another lie u only translated d word 'bging' and u said it mean creature, is d fada a creature?

If you are blind to see that then na you sabi.......

And again all heavenly beings are spirits.....the more you try to run away from the fact the more you keep chasing shadows......

we know as humans that we are all flesh and blood....

but then we have different types of humans....

Fat,slim,muscular, etc....

But we are all flesh blood...

amimals all have flesh and blood dat doesnt mean animals are humans does it?

The basics is ::::all persons in heaven are spirits......

and dat doesnt make dem possesor of d infinite nature of God.

And please open a scripture where it says the Father is the ""beginning of"" Gods creation....

If you can't open it you better go hide your mary worshipping face ..........

u are simply dodging, just answer my question u didnt interprete "begining of" in greek, did u? No! U didnt. U interprete only "begining" and u said it implies that Jesus is a creature. The same word is used by d fada, answer me does it also mean that d fada is a creature or are u making an exception? What u wrote above is nonesense

ijawkid: is the Father a morning star too??

Mr ubenidictus

if u are interested in giving him that title i have no problem.

ijawkid: hey....

That means melchizedek has no beginning too....abi??

That means melchizedek was God the 4th.....agreed??

at times i really ask myself y i discuss these issues with you, becos u just close ur eyes to scripture and find a way to claim u are right and d other is wrong. Weldone.
Dat chapter of heb in case u didnt notice was to protray melchisedek as a "type", "figure" and "prefigurement" of christ. By explaning melchisedek he showed what d only son of d fada is. And one of d words he used was "without begining of days" u cant go and argue with d bible for all i care.

lagerwhenindoubt: Ok? he said so categorically? i mean why would he be coy about such a critical spot of revelation? just asking

i cant find anything "coy" there, u just reject an important part of revelation partly becus u dont understand it and partly becos u hate d rcc.

aslan333: Jesus is God, simply put.
Jesus made it clear that no man has seen the Father (John 6vs 46) but clearly men saw God in the Old Testament.
• And they SAW the God of Israel and ate in his presence (Exodus 24vs 1-12) who did Moses and the elders see?
• Whose form did Moses see? (Numbers 12vs 6 -
• God says I ALONE stretched out the heavens, who spread the earth by MYSELF (Isaiah 44 vs. 24), yet we believe Christ created all things (Colossian 1 vs. 6)
• God loved Jesus BEFORE the world began (John 17 vs. 24)
• Jesus had glory with God BEFORE the world began John 17 vs. 5)
• Jesus said” I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (pre-existence)
• Jesus said “that ALL may honor me JUST AS they honor the Father”. How do we honor the Father? How can a mere creature claim equal honor with the Father? (John 5vs 23)
• Who did Abraham speak with before Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?
• Isaiah saw the messiah’s glory (John 12 vs. 41) yet John quotes the vision in Isaiah 6 where Isaiah saw the glory of the God of Israel.


Who was the angel of the Lord in the Old Testament? He spoke to Moses from WITHIN the burning bush (Exodus 3 vs. 2), yet Exodus 3 vs. 4 says it was God that was WITHIN the burning bush. He spoke as God in Judges 3 vs. 1 – 12. When he spoke to Hagar she called him “the God that sees me”. (Gen 16 vs. 7-16). Yet he is distinct from God (pleads with God on behalf of Jerusalem. (Zechariah chap 1 vs. 12)

People went through tortuous pain, persecution and death from the ancient world because they believed Jesus to be God (read eusebius church history). We insult their martyrdom and memory when we sit behind a username and deem ourselves more knowledgeable then those who lived and DIED for such beliefs. Ireneus book: against heresies, Justin martyr apology etc. these documents are there for us to see even before the RCC emerged as a dominant world power. Let us at least TRY to understand the HYPOSTATIC UNION before we go on a posting spree. We who have suffered so little believe we know more than those who lived in the times of the apostles. I do not support a lot of the RCC believes but we shouldn’t throw out the baby with the bath water.

thanks, im suprise someone is criticising a position he doesnt know anything about. Atleast make research before you critisize.

ijawkid: which children??

Mary worshippers abi??

from henceforth all generations shall call me bless. If d scriptures donot fault me u cant. U really want to divert d topic abi? Why nt open ur own mary thread abt mary?

Boomark: I asked you whose image He was since you said He has been existing along side the Father from eternity.

The time i was born is the my father begot me and that the time i bore his image.

Like you said up there that Jesus was born b4 time, that makes Him the beginning according to scriptures.
Am happy you are now getting the gist.

the Word of God has alway been d exact representation of his father being. The was never a 'time' he was not because he is before all times and seasons and he created both time and season. He existed from all eternal, alway as d exact representation of d fadas being.
The fada has alway been a fada, the son is alway d son of d fada. So my friend what do u nt understand?

ijawkid: which children??

Mary worshippers abi??

from henceforth all generations shall call me bless. If d scriptures donot fault me u cant. U really want to divert d topic abi? Why nt open ur own mary thread abt mary?

ijawkid: it is now time for you to open the scriptures to show us that Jesus never had a beginning...
Oya start opening...
Dont just rant...open the scriptures.....

jn1:1, heb7:3. He was there before the begining. What is before d begining has no begining of day nor end.