₦airaland Forum

ijawkid: You mean Joshua and the leaders of isreal chanted in front of images??......please what did they say??



Then discard the images of the cross,the rosary,and marys image....throw them into the receptacle..burn them just as the early christians did........




what was the instruction God gave moses as regards the bronze serpent??didn't God instruct moses on what to do??....God himself gave the instruction in order for the lives of the isrealites who had been bitten by snakes to be revived.....and that act for-shadowed the messiah been hung on a stake.....Jesus himself refered to that incident....
The isrealites didn't see the copper serpent as a means of worshipping God,,,,....infact later on that bronze serpent was destroyed by God.....

And as regards the ark of covenant,its making was as a result of Gods instruction...and that ark of covenant represented Gods prescence....and it was kept in the most holy.....all that was given because of the physical temple......
Today ofcus God does not dwell in temples....Jesus died to squash the physical temples and all its items......

I wonder how come we are having new images in churches....who instructed the making of those images??God??or man??.....







Now the difference between you and an ancient isrealite was that that ark of covenant was made because God himself instructed them to make it......

Who instructed the catholics to make an image of mary and to bow down to it and infact pray through it??who??

In your case presumpteousness and idolatry is what is eating you up....


Did the isrealites pray through the ark of covenant??

How can you quote what happened @ cana as a prop for indulging in prayers through mary??

So because mary helped a couple beg Jesus to turn water into wine,it then also means mary is interceding for all Christians after her death??......wonders shall never end!!!!!!!!!!........

And I believe till today you are still begging mary to beg Jesus to turn all the water in your house to wine or maybe VODKA this time......
.......
And how many times did the apostles or early christians pray thru mary even when mary was alive ??can you please spot a verse from acts to revelations where early christians prayed through mary??....



How can you use just that one singular act to term mary as an intercessor.....SMH!!!!!!!.....



Now this is why we say you guys worship mary.....

""HOLY MARY MOTHER OF GOD PLEASE PRAY FOR US""...

This is what no early christian did or said.........

hahaha, if God told you to make images it is right, if it isnt written in d bible that God said to make another image then it is wrong.
This is a st.upid arguement

ijawkid: So can you please tell me what sets you apart from one who practices hindiusm or buddhism who believes that through an image he or she can get to the supreme God??...

please wisen up.

Have you ever tried imitating Jesus who worshipped the almighty without the need of images interceding for Him??.......

and i dont believe images interceed. Sorry u are argueing against urself.

ijawkid: Lol....we aint angry bro....

I'm not in any battle with the catholics actually.....its just that bowing down and chanting before images is just against what Jesus would do...its plain idolatry......Jesus didn't need the help of an image before he could approach his Father....we don't need items to be right in front of us before we can approach our heavenly Father.....

As I can see the catholics are not confident enough that Jesus can do his mediator Job any longer and so bowing down before marys image becomes important.....need I remind you guys that we are to worship God by Faith and not by sight.......we don't need images to help us get to God...images are inanimate objects made by the hands of man........they are lifeless and USELESS........

and where did u hear that the catholic church said it is forbiding to pray without statue? If statues aid me in prayer i will use dem if nt i wont. Nobody needs images in d strict sense yet to claim it is against scriptures for images to be present in a place of worship, that is just nonesense

Omo Alata: When Christ said, "it is finished", the veil tore from top to bottom meaning that man could now go straight before God with his petition instead of going via the priest. You don't need a DEAD saint to plead your case. Go to God directly. Stay blessed

why do u ask ur fellow xtians to pray 4 u? Y nt say it is finished so u wont ask other?
Asking odas for prayer isnt compulsory but it is encourage, my bible also says wen two pipo wen two people agree on an issue.... And d praya of d righteous...

chukwudi44: More from st John chrysostom

He saith to him, 'Feed My sheep.' Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the apostles, the mouth of the disciples, and the head of the choir; for this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now, since his denial had been purged away, He entrusts him with the rule over the brethren; and the fervent love which thou hast shown throughout, and in which thou didst boast, show now; and the life which thou saidst thou wouldst lay down for Me, give for My sheep." (Hom 88[87] in Joann 1, vol VIII, 477-9[525-6])

As if St. Chrysostom was prescient of some future critic who would wish to explain that any of the apostles might be said to preside over the brethren, and that what is said to Peter as head of the choir is meant for all, he adds further on:

"If anyone should say 'Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?' I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that See but of the world."

[ Giles has: "And if anyone would say 'How did James receive the chair of Jerusalem?", I would reply that he appointed Peter a teacher not of the chair, but of the world..." (Chrysostom, on John, Homily 88, Migne PG 59:478, Giles page 164)

enigma i thought u said chysostom was against d primacy of peter, u have been smoked.

frosbel: Which one is more important to you , petrine or roman supremacy or the supremacy of Christ.

Now I know that you have given yourself over to believe in this nonsense propagated by the heathen RCC.

Mate come to Jesus and receive life.

they are all part of d gospel, above i gave a scriptural thought on d petrine primacy, if u want me to present my thoughts of d supremacy of christ i have no body.
I will go back to d analogy i made above, d kingdon has the king, christ Jesus wu is "all in all" and preeminent over all, "d master of the key" wu has jurisdiction power and authority as given by d king and many ministers.
Feel free to write abt my reply to ihen.
No part of d gospel is suppose to be thrown away, both d supremacy of christ and d primacy of peter are there. U arent suppose to pick and chose.

Pastor AIO: I no get answer for ya kweshun o!

i thought this was a discussion, was i wrong? U said "iwill build my church" is refering to d "body of...". I have to ask again, does d key also belong to d "body of...", or did Jesus give himself d keys or did he give it to peter? Many pipo skip dis part and i see them as dishonest. If d "rock" is a body of... I wonder wu was given d keys.

Logicboy03: What you are talking about is very rare. Every year is a different catholic scandal. It is rare for an ex-catholic atheist to convert back. Possible but rare

not among those i chat wit, scandals doesnt deter anyone wu has faith, infact i will be worried if scandals didnt exist. I tink my bible says sumwhere that it Must come "but woe to him wu it came from"

alyv: I totally believe this story. You shouldn't wait till you witness being in hell so you can believe. And to Catholics you know the ten commandments pretty well and there is one that says You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God and being that you know that yet you still bow down to the image of Mary and Jesus of which were created by human hands. Even without referring to the testimony of Angelica the bible itself states clearly that hell is real and that Jesus is coming to take the Holy with him and the people who are not double minded so you still alive and you have the privilege of repenting. Don't wait till the time you'll be telling Jesus to have Mercy on you when it'll be too late make a move right know, start by accepting that you are a sinner and repenting all the sins you've committed, tell God to forgive you and to write your name in the book of life and abide in him, don't move away from his ways follow his footsteps till the journeys end then you'll have the way through his Kingdom.

d same book that say make no image also says make image. Learn to interprete

frprof: To all Catholics, Idol worshiping is greatest sin God dislikes apart from fornication. Bowing down to the images dead Mary and Saints is EXACTLY idol worshiping which will land you in hell if you dont repent. Remember, Pope is in hell. I warn you, let not your mouth bring you condemnation. Why do you just open your mouth to utter blasphemy. Check up what Jesus said about this kind of thing you just said in Mtt. 12:31-32. And pray that God prevents me from getting so upset as to place a curse on you. Then you would know what a Roman Catholic priest means. It has happened to so many stubborn person like you. Your type usually learns the hard way. Please go and ask people and they will tell you never again to joke with a Catholic priest.

hahahahaha, this is very funny, did u read d original story? It says d pope was put in hell because he didnt preach abt hell, i guess d person she saw was a member of d watchtower or sda because those are d groups that dont believe in hell. Joanus paulus declear fully and truly d word of God with power including d teaching of hell.
Dis girl shuld get a new story

tobechi20: Someone told me the other day that Catholics are idolaters because we kneel in front of statues to pray, which means we are worshipping the statue.



I told him that meant kneeling by your bed to pray is worshipping your bed, and praying at the table before meals must be worshipping your food. That actually helped him understand that you aren't always praying to whatever is in front of you, and I used the opportunity to tell him that we worship God, but we simply ask saints to worship God on our behalf.

Of course this individual was not converted, but I honestly think he has more understanding of our faith than before. I always find it useful to use humor to get people to see your side of an issue. I just thought I'd like to share that, and see what others have experienced in issues like this.



What do you tell someone who accuses you of worshipping statues?

dont try d above with ijawkid and frosbel, they are more interested in condemning u than in seeing ur perspective.
No offence meant to ijawkid and frosbel bt d truth is what it is.

Logicboy03: lol......Are you a Vatican accountant? A church that has its own bank and its own city. Does the bank not make profit?


#lying for Jesus

that bank is in debt the last time i checked. Do u have a problem with showing us reliable proof? I just show every one that d only way other diocese help is thru peters pence and i pasted d wikipedia link. Where is ur proof?

debosky: This is false - Petros/Peter is usually translated as Ke'pha (from which we derive Cephas) in Aramaic (a small stone) while Petra can be translated as Shu'a in Aramaic.

There is more than one word used for rock in Aramaic.

Secondly, while Jesus did speak Aramaic, the oldest available texts of Matthew are in Greek, not Aramaic.

hahaha, sorry d aramic text have d same word "cephas".

truthislight: "also, i say to you, You are peter, and on this rock-mass i will build my congregation and the of Hedes will not overpower it"



note, " on this rock-mass i will build"

and this :

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. " (Matthew 16:18).

Where did you get that from?

im suppose to ask u that question "you are cephas, and upon this cephas i will build my eclesia" i hope ur reasoning ability are alright lol.

frosbel: the church was built on the rock of Peter's statement that JESUS is the Messiah.

Besides , to compare Peter to those evil , wicked and Antichrist popes is an insult of the highest order.

The catholic church is a demon filled institution.

keep quite!!! Did Jesus mention anything like statement there. U are dishonest.

truthislight: is that a valid question?

Is the bible dedicated to the kind of writing the congregation had or it is for the teachings of the apostles?

I told you that paul asked that his letter to another congregation be copied and given to another and as such, the early christians hand copied the apostles writing like it was done for the OT.

What has that to do with your question?

u neva cease to amaze me with ur gymnastics. The simple fact is not every congregation had pauls letter and there was none that had all his letter, paul didnt even ask that all his letters be copied and given to other people, many of his letters of people specific, if u claim u cant see that then u are simply dishonest.
U may continue ur gymnastics.

Logicboy03: Na pentecostal you be?

u are simply showing ur ignorance, nobody stops any body from bringing a bible and yes d priest always quote frm scriptures.

Logicboy03: Nonsense.
Slavery was put into canon by pope Gregory IX in the early 13th century.

u see ur lie, what slavery did gregory put into canon law? Is it chattel slavery? No it is. Some of d forms of slavery gregory called "just" are there even today and supported by every law in the world.
A criminal is sentence to yrs of hard labour, that is involutary servitude and gregory clearly said it was just and it remains just even today. Do you have a problem with that? Voluntary servitude is also just do you have a problem with that? That which is unjust is chattel slavery and the catholic popes have alway condemned it. If u have a poblem, speak.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_slavery#Slavery_incorporated_into_canon_law
Even your pope has apologised for the church involvement in slavery;

As reported by the Evangelist in 2000, official publication of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Albany, "... Pope John Paul II has called on the Church to recognize and apologize for its failures during the first 2000 years of Christianity. Foremost among those failures, according to a panel of scholars, is repression of others in general and anti-Semitism in particular." (49) The scholars were asked: "What is the worst mistake the Church has committed over the past two millennia -- and how can the Church make up for it?" Among the responses was this one regarding slavery: "The Church's silence on or even implicit approval of slavery for almost 2000 years" was its worst mistake, said Rev. Robert Scully, SJ, assistant professor of history at Le Moyne College in Syracuse. "From the New Testament period on, the Church generally accepted slavery as a 'natural' part of socio-economic reality, or spoke of it as a necessary evil," he explained. "As a Jesuit, I am morally embarrassed by the fact that certain Jesuit provinces owned slaves into the 18th and even the 19th centuries. It is a classic -- and particularly chilling -- example of the fact that the Church has often not been at the forefront of moral crusades to end unjust social realities that were too often taken for granted, or not deeply questioned and challenged."
http://www.slaverysite.com/Body/morality.htm

and how does this proof ur point that the church taught chattel slavery? Provide proof that the church supported chattel slavery! I repeat u are dishonest.

Logicboy03: Is there any difference between the personal money of politicians and govt money in Niaja? Who is being intellectua;;y dishonest here?

Why are you claiming a strawman. The catholic church is worth over a billion dollars. You claimed that they didnt have much cash and I told you that they have a bank. There is no bank that doesnt have liquid assets. They must have a lot of cash as well. Yes, they have assets like paintings and artifacts but they are still worth a billion dollars.

Your catholic church is the most corrupt and greedy organisation the world has ever seen. For every work of charity, they get a return in offerings and conversions.


We havent even visited the history of how the catholic church bankrolled some governments.

ijawkid has started pasting false information, are we suppose to sell our churches to satisfy u?? Having a bank doesnt make me owner of money, it makes me a custodian of other peoples money. D vatican doesnt make as much as it spend, and most of her spendings are on charity.

kacheezy: Die hard catholic...more catholic than the Romans...I hope you don't molest children like your priests or cover up crime like your Nazi pope.

ad hominem attacks. U shuld learn not to argue like a f.ool

Logicboy03: lol.......stop making claims that you cant back. I said the catholic church makes billions from Africa and explained how.
You are claiming things about the catholic church in Rome whose dealings are mostly not known to outsiders. How do you know what leaves naija and what doesnt? Liar

u are very dishonest. The vatican isnt rich it is almost alway in deficit and is alway bailed out by d american bishop. Apart from peters pence noting goes to d vatican from nigeria.
Since u asked for proof he it is http://em.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy-of-Vatican-City
http://business.highbeam.com/4545/article-1G1-126240209/pope-rich-and-other-vatican-myths
ijawkid u are a liar, diocese have financial autonomy and donot give d vatican their money.
U are very dishonest.

seriallink: Oh okay, the Ethiopian Bible is extinct too right? Are you implying that all Ethiopian Christians are hell bound? I thought Catholics have some of those Books in their Bible too

sorry, enoch didnt make it in the canon, the catholic old testament is d greek scriptures, no enoch there. I believe was popular at a point until a council condemned the book. What other rejected ethopia took. The book wasnt written in greek or hebrew it was in d ethopian language.

truthislight: Well, if you have not red where apostle paul ask that a letter he sent to one congregation be copied and sent to another, then i cant really help you, and not on this thread.
Peace

u are simply jumping, my question remains did every congregation have every of pauls letters? Give me an honest answer

Ihedinobi: I get what you're saying. However, people without their own personal appreciation of Christ are not reckoned with spiritually. See Daniel 11:32.

Also this "path of mine" is not really mine See Colossians 3:18 and Luke 16:10. Whether it works all the time or only sometimes, it is the only way. Where it fails it is not being followed.

We will not come to the fullness of Christ by either dependence or independence but by interdependence. We will learn through other believers and faithful obedience to the understanding we have received. There is no other path to the fullness of Christ.

love this

Logicboy03: Atheists hardly convert to religion. Very difficult.

i know many wu did. Religion accding to them adds meaning to their life. Few are very suspious and entering a theological debate with them may be agonizing, other just let go faith for them is an opportunity to free urself of worry, i have chatted with many catholics wu were atheist and catholics wu becam atheist and leta becam catholic. It is a list of endless posibilities.

truthislight: what are the symbol of demons doing in a house that is suppose to be the house of God?

Will such have been allowed in God's temple in Jerusalem?

Dont you know that God use to reject the nation of Israel whenever they turn to idolatry?

hahaha, the old ranting on what simbol is what, it is a pity u are too superstitious and explaining each symbol will be a waste of time becos u arent interested in the truth ur aim is to condemn. Ask d guyz u copied dis from to go to d orthodox church and check if d very same symbols arent there. It has nting to do with demon d problem is u are superstitious i cant help u.

Logicboy03: So God, was impotent towards slavery? God was more concerned with homosexuals in Sodom and Gommorah?
The churches couldnt tell their members that slavery was bad?

u are dishonest, have u ever heard of d papal bull sicut dudem, it came in 1435 and condemned slavery. As early as that d church alread condemned slavery. U are dishonest.

Logicboy03: 1) The catholic church has a vatican bank. Seriously, do you want tot lie again that the catholic churhc doiesnt have millions in cash or that the bank trades in paintings?

the vatican bank doesnt store vatican money alone, incase u dont know many people and orgnisations bank in d vatican bank. It is like other banks it isnt used solely by d vatican. MAKE UR RESEARCH AND STOP POSTING THIS NONESENCE.

2) Who cares if your parish doesnt have a printing press? Some do. Even if they dont, who told you that they dont make profit from outsourcing it?

intellectual dishonesty thats ur problem.

3) My deputy gov donates millions to the catholic church. Why is it impossible for gobt to donate to the catolic church? Why do yu lie?

wu is ur dep. Gov and is it his personal money he is donating or "government money".