₦airaland Forum

otr1:
It's convenient for you to call Churches in the first century, Catholic (just same way Mohammed called all biblical prophets, Moslems) even when we both know there was no Catholic Church at that time. What we had was Roman Church which metamorphosise into the Catholic Church. Sorry to burst your bubble, all those churches ain't Roman or Catholic by any standard. They are as different as their name implies. It was during the reign of Constantine, through the marriage of the Catholic church and Roman state, that all other churches were being coerced to be a subject of the Roman church.

it is not just convenient for me it is the Truth.


there were no Protestants until the 16 th century but we all have writing from the disciples of the apostles all saying that the Church is the Catholic Church.

it wasn't just the Roman church that became the Catholic Church, it was every authentic Christian Church all over the world, from Antioch to Alexandria, to France, from east to West.

even before Constantine those city Church were part of the Catholic Church.

otr1:
There is little point in claiming that a certain church or doctrine came down from the days of the Apostles. Sin came down from the days of the Apostles, and the devil also was active at that time and before. It's not so much what came down from the days of the Apostles, as what came down from the Apostles. Even in his days, apostle Paul wrote : 'The iniquity doth already work.'
The present can never be properly understood without correct information concerning the past. Those who have been taught falsified history or who have had their minds filled with twisted interpretations of events gone by, stagger like the blind with a darkened mind.
No, the evidence is very clear that, during the first century and the first half of the second, the two main Christian centers were Antioch, in Syria (between the Syrian population centers around Damascus and the Cilician province), and Alexandria. Later claims that Rome or Jerusalem ( founding-place of Christianity) were important early centers of Christianity, are later interpolations.
The Roman Church grew out of the orthodox Christian movement. A rigid hierarchy was built, with the Bishop of Rome, the Pope, at the top, controlling doctrine. It grew into a vast juggernaut, however, and as is the nature of large bloated bureaucracies that outlast their usefulness, the Church grew cotruly ( this was due to the romance of the church with the Roman state power. We all know that Pope inherited the powers of Roman emperors together with their titles)
In the 11th century, the entire eastern Church broke away from Rome.
The Armenia church have been alone all along. So whenever someone is telling you that the Catholic Church is the first and the only church before the reformation, you know what to tell them.

this only shows your ignorance dear.

the Armenian Church was called the Catholic Church in Armenia, it wasn't alone, it was part of the Catholic Church and was in communion with the pope and other Catholic bishops. Their bishops fell into heresy and was excommunicated from the Catholic Church in the council of chalcedon, they were doubting the nature of Christ, apart from that they agree 90% with the Catholic Church, actually they recently cleared up their difference and are now part of the Catholic Church.

2ndly if you actually read up on early Christianity you would have found out that the first and most important Christian city about 40Ad was Jerusalem, that is where the apostles James and Peter sat, when Paul ran into trouble during his preaching and he was attacked by the judaizers he took the matter to Jerusalem to be settled in the council of Jerusalem... that was the main Christian center. after Paul began to preach he records that he went to Jerusalem to make sure he wasn't running in vain and he was received by Peter and James in Jerusalem.
soon after James was killed peter left Jerusalem for Antioch, he sent his disciple Mark to Alexandria and those places became the most important Christian centers,... finally apostle Peter and even Paul came to Rome, Paul was a prisoner but Peter wasn't, Rome finally became the most important Christian center as it was the church of the apostles... any church that had issues referred it to Rome... in fact there are letters available of the church of Rome intervening in Corinth in the 1st century. That prominence is recognized by all the early Church.

SAVIOURJESUS:
go back and reread my post.
Protestanism was a major breakthrough from the tyranny of Rome.
.it is not a rule that all protestant must have one doctrine, it is better to be divided in truth than to be united in error.
As long as Satan is the ruler of the world there will always be errors and false religion. So the fact that roman catholism has been in existence 1500 years proves nothing. There was darkness on earth before God called forth light, Sin came before the saviour, Israel.was in bondage to Egypt 400 years
before Moses was sent.

nah,
Protestantism is an invention of a ex Catholic priest, who went on to form a tyranny against anyone who wasn't a member of his new enterprise. His enterprise end up breaking into 30,000 confused, confusing and contradictory sects.


it is only people who believe that Jesus lied when he said the gates of hell will not prevail against the church who go and join themselves to a 16 century enterprise.

the church Christ established is the Catholic Church and I believe in the word of Jesus that the gates of hell will never prevail against her, I won't join a enterprise made by men less than 500yrs ago.


if you guys can't agree on doctrine then that tell me that the devil is at work among you, my God isn't a God of confusion.

brocab:
The problem we are having no-one likes to hear the truth-truth is confusing with those who think they are a head of time-how can marriage stop for a little while and start up again? If you are claiming marriage isn't important in the Church now, then why do priest and Nun's claim they are married to Christ, and Christ is the head of the Church?
And if the priest believe they are married to Christ whom they can't see, then why do priest act upon those whom they can see?
{Matthew 5:28} But I say to you if anyone looks at a woman with lust had already committed adultery with her in his heart.
So you see marriage is important in the Church, priest claiming to be married to Christ in one hand, and yet having lust in their hearts for another, have committed adultery.
{In the other hand I suppose you maybe right, priest are now turning to marriage-after searching the net I manage to find this--Priest claims Church could accept gay ‘marriage’: ‘It would be wrong to fight against it’ TORBAY, Newfoundland, June 30, 2017 (LifeSiteNews)
A Catholic priest helping to run a gay-Pride ‘multi-faith service’ says that the Holy Spirit could direct the Church under Pope Francis to change its teaching on marriage and sexuality to accept gay “marriage.” And, if the Holy Spirit did so, “it would be wrong to fight against it,” he said.
“It's not like this was a teaching that was established in the time of Christ, or in the first three centuries, or by the Council of Nicea, or even by the Council of Trent,” said Fr. Paul Lundrigan, a pastor in active ministry at Holy Trinity Parish within the Archdiocese of St. John’s, Newfoundland, to LifeSiteNews.
As we can see, if this above is right, and the priest do have a positive attitude towards marriage, than the next question is, to whom and what sex? Gay marriage will be legalised in every country, and what Pope Francis believes Christians and Muslims are all brothers, and all those in favour put up your hands, will the Church marry Children too?
Whats the world coming too, and why would people accept gay marriage in the first place, the Word of God is against it, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

you have managed to find 1 erring priest who I know will be corrected by his bishop and you have used him to judge the Catholic Church that actually reject gay marriage, and of course you forgot about your Protestant churches where your entire councils vote for gay marriage and even have openly married bishops and pastors.

blueAgent:
You are confused.

even more confused is a conspiracy theorist.

brocab:
Firstly instead of playing the blame game-try pulling the plank out of your eye, before trying to pull the speck out from mine, There's to many judges and not enough workers in Christ, Uben try reading some of the things I have written in the past, I have written to so many different organisations that claim to know Christ and yet refuses the Word of God, JW's, protestants that believe in other doctrines are no different then the Catholic Church who preaches it. Everybody that writes outside the square-is corrected by the Word of God.
Shame on you Uben-Is this a man thing, attacking me with such little words "Hypocrite is to big for a little man, I have seen you and your comrades in action Uben, when It comes to judgement you are always there standing amongst the wolves.
You are prepared to lie, you are trained to lie, you aren't any different to anybody else who lies about your Church. I do remember I was told I won't find any Church signs anywhere that's written Roman Catholic Church.
Thank God, I found photo's of signs outside different Roman Catholic Churches, to prove these false allegations were lies-I received this information from a Catholic comrade of yours.
If you are going to talk dirty to me, at least talk as you know something.

I don't need to play any game. you opened a thread to Bash Catholics and then went to all the trouble to misrepresent what Catholics believe, even when you were corrected you didn't bother to correct your self. you are the one standing in judgement. you opened a thread for it.


when last did you open a thread to bash your fellow Protestants?

I don't need to accuse you of hypocrisy, it has began to show.

brocab:
I am always looking out for a sincere discussion, but the problem is Uben you haven't given me a chance, and if you had explained yourself more clearly, which you never do, then I could explain my words, don't forget-it is visa versa you also shut me down without leaving an answer..
I don't know about you, but everything I hear about any Church, I head straight into the word of God, by doing so, I have found the differences between Christians in Churches and how most Church leaders have that much pull over the Church, no-one seems to question them.
Jesus said: "Test the spirits. {1 John 4}
Most believers I find, are not taught to test the spirits, most believers don't have time to study the Word of God, only because they are taught different doctrines, that doesn't concern the Word of God.
This forum had taught me a great deal-and just by reading about different beliefs, and studying the bible, stood out a mile, that not all people that call themselves Christians have that passion for Christ! "they would rather study other doctrines, that isn't scriptural, then turn themselves back to the basic's "God the Father.
"Dr evil struck When I had experience my shocking ordeal from the past, you jumped in and tried to destroy everything I wrote in remembrance.
If only you had a heart, try looking into a child's mind, instead of looking for a judge, sin through a priest had forced itself into a child, before that child was old enough to know what sin is, and prolonging Children into a prison system without reason, can cause a Child to be led down that wrong path in life.
Where did you leave that Christian heart of your's, man?
Is there anybody left in the Church that actually cares what roads these victims are taking, these Children suffered and are left to pick up the pieces, had anybody taking the time to learn what the main attractions are that leads them to drugs and suicide, young Children are left with the guilt the Church had laid upon them, It's leading them into homosexuality, our society is full of Gay couples running high, the gates of hell are open for gay marriages, "ordained priest forcing themselves upon children, because ordained priest have refuse to marry under God.
Can we image Jesus bowing down to Satan, sex in the city, "but Jesus stood His ground and said get behind Me Satan, you shall worship the lord your God, and Him only you shall serve. {Matthew 4:1-11}
It just shows who's leading the world and where its heading, the numbers are high how many people bow down each day before Satan?
The Woman Church refusing to marry, that's led, women refusing men, women taking the authority of a man, women leading countries in politics, women are taught they can do a man's job better, while the men sit at home looking after the children.
{1 Corinthians 11:3} Jesus said: I want you to realise that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of every woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
Scientist have discovered Children can be born without men. DNA..
Judging is what you do best-understanding is not what you know.

no sir you are not here for a sincere discussion.

if you did you wouldn't have pasted misinformation about what Catholics believe and would have corrected it immediately you were shown it is untrue.

of course you don't care for anything sincere your aim is to paste whatever you think presents Catholics in bad light even when it is untrue.

ScienceWatch:
With all due respect, Sir. The trusting masses are not empowered by smart intelligent sounding historic and philosophical arguments about religion. They honestly desire if their chosen church can manifest the promises of Jesus Christ for their lives.

Jesus Christ did not make empty promises, nor did he encourage historic and philosophical grandstanding to impress suffering mankind.

His eternal promise was, "COME UNTO ME ALL YOU THAT ARE BURDENED, AND I WILL FIX IT."

It is NEVER the fault of the congregation that the Signs and wonders of their beliefs don't manifest because their faith is proved by their willingness to come and pray and worship - that is enough evidence of congregations faith.

That is why Jesus trained Disciples/pastors and gave them the spiritual keys to the kingdom of heaven, it was never given to the flock.

If the leader/disciple/pastor can not manifest the evidence of that beliefs in the lives of others, the congregation knows that their pastor is not recognized as a spiritual leader in heaven.

Congregations should study the incredible scientifically verifiable evidence on Emmanuel TV of what a believing church leader/disciple/pastor must do to prove to them that his beliefs is bible based.

yet on the last day many will say, we performed signs in your name and Jesus will reply, I know you not.

johnw74:
cartoons are usually humorous, you uben refer to illustrations portraying God's word with Bible verses provided,
as cartoon - funny - a joke,
but of course you do, and just look at the title of this thread: "Catholicism's SHOCKING Attitude Toward The Bible!"

you prove the OP in your most every post

a cartoon is a cartoon... I called it what it is.


the fact that it is copy and paste to spread bias against the Catholic Church doesn't prevent it from been a cartoon.

johnw74:
i see how you cannot stop lying

how many times have i said that the word "flesh is literally flesh", it's not cucumber
but you love to lie, and to even repeat your lies


flesh is flesh, and no one physically eats Jesus flesh

Jesus was speaking things of the Spirit, which of course those without the Spirit cannot understand
even when explained to them with other scriptures

of course you cannot understand uben, but you do twist and lie a lot, that comes from another spirit

the bible says Jesus flesh is literal food,

you said his flesh is literal flesh but you have refused to affirm that it is literal food.


my flesh is true (literal, not hidden) food.
while you say
Jesus flesh is figurative food.

johnw74:
duh oh unknowing uben, u must be tired always running away from the truth

when Jesus said to His apostles, "do this in rememberance of me"
He wasn't saying, "physically eat my flesh and physically drink my blood in rememberance of me"


He was saying, "meet together like this, eat and drink and fellowship in rememberance of me"

^^^ that's what communion is:

communion

G2842

κοινωνία
koinōnia
koy-nohn-ee'-ah
From G2844; partnership, that is, (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation), communion, (contri-), distribution, fellowship.
Total KJV occurrences: 20

yet the fact is that the word koinonia does not appear in the passages you quoted. the word for remembrance is anamesis.

this is another thing that appears.
my flesh is true (literal, not hidden) food.
while you say
Jesus flesh is figurative food.

brocab:
No-one is against the Catholic's, all Churches have faults, this is why-we need to get back to the Word of God, no-one is perfect-but God only.
No one is interested to criticise the Catholic's nor other believers around the globe, we criticise different doctrines, gospels that don't line up with the Word of God.
Every time someone steps out and preachers the Word of God is either rebuked criticised, or physically tormented by other Christians, we are classed as haters against God and humanity.
Sharing the Word of God is one of the most loneliness walks everybody can experience, if they truly believed, not all Christians believe, "sharing the truth is a difficult task, just to be criticised, its a matter of believing in faith and stepping out that counts.
Life as a Christian is difficult, learning the Word of God and trying to share it's fruit-sharing the Word of God is difficult, not all Christians believe enough to know they don't hear the Word of God, because they don't practise the Word of God, 'these are disbelieving Christians that causes disputes and arguments among the brethren.
Reaching out-explaining the Word of God is not a crime against humanity, against religion, nor against God, but it's the Christians in this day and age who are persecuting the Church of God.
{Matthew 28:19} "Go out and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.
Who crucified Christ? The Pharisees Christians crucifying Christians-Church or organisation, Christians are criticised by Christians. Stepping out and preaching the Word of God, from Jesus, to the disciples, Christians suffer persecution from fellow Christians.
So it's not about the people-it's about the unbiblical doctrines, that is working against our nations, and of course against God.

how many times have you corrected your fellow Protestants? nah you only criticise Catholics?

hypocrisy, remove the log in your eyes first maybe then you'll see the speck in your brothers eyes

brocab:
When I say it took me all day to read, meaning I had read what you had written-and plus what information would you like me to correct, that I believe, you believe there is a Christ, or is there something else on your mind, I could think of many misquotes the Catholic Church have said and done.
I wasn't looking for an argument, but since you are offering, I thought I may let this one go Just for safety reasons-Does this sound like the Catholic Church below? Is this what the Catholic Church do, they burn incense and make cakes, to Queen of heaven Mother of heaven, and pour out drink offerings to other gods...{Jeremiah 7:17-18}
{Jeremiah 44}
{1 The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the Jews who dwell in the land of Egypt, who dwell at Migdol, at Tahpanhes, at Noph,[a] and in the country of Pathros, saying,
{2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: ‘You have seen all the calamity that I have brought on Jerusalem and on all the cities of Judah; and behold, this day they are a desolation, and no one dwells in them,
{3 because of their wickedness which they have committed to provoke Me to anger, in that they went to burn incense and to serve other gods whom they did not know, they nor you nor your fathers.
{4 However I have sent to you all My servants the prophets, rising early and sending them, saying, “Oh, do not do this abominable thing that I hate!”
{5 But they did not listen or incline their ear to turn from their wickedness, to burn no incense to other gods.
{6 So My fury and My anger were poured out and kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as it is this day.’
{7 “Now therefore, thus says the Lord, the God of hosts, the God of Israel: ‘Why do you commit this great evil against yourselves, to cut off from you man and woman, child and infant, out of Judah, leaving none to remain,
{8 in that you provoke Me to wrath with the works of your hands, burning incense to other gods in the land of Egypt where you have gone to dwell, that you may cut yourselves off and be a curse and a reproach among all the nations of the earth?
{9 Have you forgotten the wickedness of your fathers, the wickedness of the kings of Judah, the wickedness of their wives, your own wickedness, and the wickedness of your wives, which they committed in the land of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
{10 They have not been humbled, to this day, nor have they feared; they have not walked in My law or in My statutes that I set before you and your fathers.’
{11 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: ‘Behold, I will set My face against you for catastrophe and for cutting off all Judah. {12 And I will take the remnant of Judah who have set their faces to go into the land of Egypt to dwell there, and they shall all be consumed and fall in the land of Egypt. They shall be consumed by the sword and by famine. They shall die, from the least to the greatest, by the sword and by famine; and they shall be an oath, an astonishment, a curse and a reproach!
{13 For I will punish those who dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, by the sword, by famine, and by pestilence,
{14 so that none of the remnant of Judah who have gone into the land of Egypt to dwell there shall escape or survive, lest they return to the land of Judah, to which they desire to return and dwell. For none shall return except those who escape.’”
{15 Then all the men who knew that their wives had burned incense to other gods, with all the women who stood by, a great multitude, and all the people who dwelt in the land of Egypt, in Pathros, answered Jeremiah, saying:
{16 “As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of the Lord, we will not listen to you!
{17 But we will certainly do whatever has gone out of our own mouth, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we have done, we and our fathers, our kings and our princes, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, were well-off, and saw no trouble. {
{18 But since we stopped burning incense to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine.”
{19 The women also said, “And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, did we make cakes for her, to worship her, and pour out drink offerings to her without our husbands’ permission?”
{20 Then Jeremiah spoke to all the people—the men, the women, and all the people who had given him that answer—saying:
{21 “The incense that you burned in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, you and your fathers, your kings and your princes, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them, and did it not come into His mind?
{22 So the Lord could no longer bear it, because of the evil of your doings and because of the abominations which you committed. Therefore your land is a desolation, an astonishment, a curse, and without an inhabitant, as it is this day.
{23 Because you have burned incense and because you have sinned against the Lord, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord or walked in His law, in His statutes or in His testimonies, therefore this calamity has happened to you, as at this day.”
{24 Moreover Jeremiah said to all the people and to all the women, “Hear the word of the Lord, all Judah who are in the land of Egypt!
{25 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, saying: ‘You and your wives have spoken with your mouths and fulfilled with your hands, saying, “We will surely keep our vows that we have made, to burn incense to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her.” You will surely keep your vows and perform your vows!’
{26 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, all Judah who dwell in the land of Egypt: ‘Behold, I have sworn by My great name,’ says the Lord, ‘that My name shall no more be named in the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, “The Lord God lives.”
{27 Behold, I will watch over them for adversity and not for good. And all the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by famine, until there is an end to them.
{28 Yet a small number who escape the sword shall return from the land of Egypt to the land of Judah; and all the remnant of Judah, who have gone to the land of Egypt to dwell there, shall know whose words will stand, Mine or theirs.
{29 And this shall be a sign to you,’ says the Lord, ‘that I will punish you in this place, that you may know that My words will surely stand against you for adversity.’
{30 “Thus says the Lord: ‘Behold, I will give Pharaoh Hophra king of Egypt into the hand of his enemies and into the hand of those who seek his life, as I gave Zedekiah king of Judah into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, his enemy who sought his li

so after I asked you to correct yourself about the misinformation you posted you just decided to shift into another thing.


you don't even want a sincere discussion, your aim is to attack and you don't care that your info may be incorrect.


the everyday protest

johnw74:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/6199307_4_gif8f173d0eaffc4b90c0c0361b8f37cc17


Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;


www.nairaland.com/attachments/6199308_5_jpegddf9c9a45551e218c4018d5c53e9f6bb


www.nairaland.com/attachments/6199309_6_gifbde7cf9049e122a728d29f2213bb2b67


Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus says
my flesh is real food.


cartoon says

Protestants believe it is symbolic

johnw74:
duh false accuser uben, let me explaim why you are wrong although i'm sure you cannoot possibly see it:

2Co_4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.



yes, the word flesh is literally flesh, Jesus wasn't saying His body is popcorn
and Jesus wasn't saying to eat His physical body and to drink His physical blood, double duh uben

when you eat your communion wafer and later poop it out,
that is not the meat that endures to everlasting life:

Joh 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.



communion is not a person giving other people a dry wafer of bread and saying this is the body of Christ, ha ha

when Jesus said do this in rememberance of me:
communion is doing what Jesus and the apostles did on that night,
it is believers gathering together to dine - eat and drink and share our common faith in Christ



communion
G2842

κοινωνία
koinōnia
koy-nohn-ee'-ah
From G2844; partnership, that is, (literally) participation, or (social) intercourse, or (pecuniary) benefaction: - (to) communicate (-ation), communion, (contri-), distribution, fellowship.
Total KJV occurrences: 20



lol uben, you know next to nothing

the word communion doesn't appear in the passages we are talking about.

this is what appears.


my flesh is true (literal, not hidden) food.

while you say

Jesus flesh is figurative food.


see how you contradict the word of God because of copy and paste.

johnw74:
uben the articles i post are supported by God's word, which is also posted,
you uben say they are from satan:

Rev_20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

nah

you did your copy and paste with twisted interpretation

UnchangeableGod:
Sir, are you inferring that Ignatius of Anthioch, Clement of Rome, Irenaeus etc taught the doctrine of Purgatory, bowed down to images, interceded through 'Mary' and the dead 'saints', were forced not to marry, baptised infants, observed oracular confessions etc? If so then they were actually as heretical as others you pointed out. The true Christians and Church did not and will not observe such. Thanks.

since you still can't provide your so called underground Church, then maybe it is you who don't known what constitute Christian practices... besides it is your Church that began in the end time.

UnchangeableGod:
I don't know their names. Whatever names you reel out depends on the books you read and those who taught you because you and I were not born then. Those authors and your teachers may equally be completely factual or partially factual. Their teachings may also be affected by their own religious biases. I reason along the Scriptures of truth that can never be broken. For you not to agree with me that the Apostles and those early Christians didn't have those practices means you are associating them with the teachings of Purgatory, idol worship, syncretism, interceding through 'Mary' and other departed souls, oescular confessions, forced celibacy, praying for the dead to be forgiven, thereby giving people false assurance that they do not need to repent and be saved while alive (which is akin to sinful indulgence). You are ready to go any length including blaspheming and roping in Christ, His Apostles and the early Church into your unscriptural Roman Catholic practises so as to justify your Church and keep those who you can deceive. However, I am more than convinced that there are people who are wise enough to discern the truth from deception. Thanks.

correction by knowledge about the early church been Catholic has nothing to do with what I was taught....
the early Christian all through the centuries wrote works where they detailed their faith in Christ and the practices they received from the apostles...so I'm not guessing or joking when I say the early Christians were Catholic and the practices in the Catholic Church today is in line with both the early church and what the apostles taught.



again if you disagree all you need to do is show proof of those persons in each century.

otr1:
...so, as you can see, there are many Churches besides the church of Rome. And even when the Roman Church went on killing spree and persecution of believers who would not agree with their church traditions, the true believers who keep the commandments of God, and the have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev. 12:17) scattered all over the face of the earth exist.

no sir,

there was no other church at the time of tertullian different from the Catholic Church, even tertullian himself was a Catholic.


stop sounding like a conspiracy theorist.

otr1:
I'm one of them. Gospel truth has always survived through the ages, and it will, till the end. You asked if there are others churches aside catholic church (if there was anything like it in the first century) after the days of the Apostles, the man I quoted gave you more than a dozen other churches in different places, having nothing to do with the roman church.

did you live from the 2nd century to about the 10th century? sorry you are not an early Christian, you are a Protestant, you group began in the 16th century by a ex Catholic priest.


correction

tertullian in case you don't know is a Catholic theologian... he was naming how far the Church had spread in the world...he wasn't talking about a different denomination.

if you want me to show you that he was Catholic just ask.

UnchangeableGod:
I don't know their names. Whatever names you reel out depends on the books you read and those who taught you because you and I were not born then. Those authors and your teachers may equally be completely factual or partially factual. Their teachings may also be affected by their own religious biases. I reason along the Scriptures of truth that can never be broken. For you not to agree with me that the Apostles and those early Christians didn't have those practices means you are associating them with the teachings of Purgatory, idol worship, syncretism, interceding through 'Mary' and other departed souls, oescular confessions, forced celibacy, praying for the dead to be forgiven, thereby giving people false assurance that they do not need to repent and be saved while alive (which is akin to sinful indulgence). You are ready to go any length including blaspheming and roping in Christ, His Apostles and the early Church into your unscriptural Roman Catholic practises so as to justify your Church and keep those who you can deceive. However, I am more than convinced that there are people who are wise enough to discern the truth from deception. Thanks.

if you don't know names that means you are making an assumption WITHOUT A SINGLE PROOF. It is all hearsay... all lies someone told you.

you can't show a single non Catholic original Christian which tells me your point is incorrect and untrue because the Catholic Church is the original Church and every true Christian from all those centuries are Catholics.

this means your Protestant Church is a 16th century invention, or even a 19century venture created by men who divorced themselves from the historic Christian faith, teaching heresy and twisting scriptures while at the same time condemning the Catholic Church who is the original Christian Church.


and incase you don't know the early church is the Catholic Church.

http://catholicherald.co.uk/issues/october-13th-2017/climate-of-fear-the-new-crackdown-on-catholic-theologians/


pray for the Church

http://catholicherald.co.uk/news/2017/11/02/us-bishops-part-ways-with-priest-who-criticised-pope-francis/

striktIymi:
Not sure why you think this is shocking. The Catholic Church has had married priests since it began. To this day the Church has hundreds or more married priests.

The debate really, is whether to allow priests of the western rite to marry. Those of the Eastern rites are allowed to have families of their own, given some conditions.

hey striktlymi is back

JackBizzle:
Lol.....the catholic church does a good job of showing its dark side itself. No need for propaganda.


Do you think history will look kindly at john paul 2 and ratzinger?

why not?

JackBizzle:
Not statistics. I did read about the popes and history of the catholic church. I was a catholic.

then I'm surprised on how you came to such conclusion... what criteria did you use in considering them as evil?

I'll encourage you to give the list of these evil guys so we see how they are more than the good ones... add their crimes.

otr1:
This quote written by Tertullian about 75years after the death of Apostle John should tell you the spread of the church of Christ after the Apostles: "For upon whom else have the universal nations believed, but upon the Christ who has already come? For whom have the nations believed- Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and they that inhabit Mesopotamia, Armamia, Phrygia, Cappadocia, and they who dwell in Pontus, and Asia, Pamphylia,...all the limits of of the Spains, the diverse nations of the Gauls, and the haunts of the Britains (inaccessible to the Romans, but subjugated to Christ)... In all which places the name of the Christ who is already come reigns." There're only 2 Churches: Rev. 12:6,14 and Rev.17

of course tertullian bears witness of the spread of the Christian faith but that doesn't answer my question unless of course you consider him to be an example of a real Christian of the 2nd century.

do you consider tertullian to be an example of a real Christian of the 2nd century?

otr1:
...so, as you can see, there are many Churches besides the church of Rome. And even when the Roman Church went on killing spree and persecution of believers who would not agree with their church traditions, the true believers who keep the commandments of God, and the have the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev. 12:17) scattered all over the face of the earth exist.

give examples of these true believers, is that so hard?

UnchangeableGod:
If your definition of the Catholic Church is the Church that preaches Purgatory, infant baptism, oracular confession, image worship, mariology etc, then the early Church and Christians were not 'Catholic' as it is today. If they were Catholics, then the Catholic Church as it is today, has not only backslidden but has gone into apostasy. So the early Christians would not been practising what the present Roman Catholic Church is doing. A right thinking person knows this. The liar is the person who associates Jesus Christ and His early disciples with sinful indulgences, paganism, syncretism, idol worship and false doctrines of the present Roman Catholic Church. He is not just a liar but a blasphemer. I pray you repent. Thanks.

my dear you still haven't answered the question


you believe the Church continued after the apostles
died and this church isn't the Catholic Church.
please give me a few names of those none Catholic
Christians from the 2nd century to the 10th century.



since you believe that the real Christians didn't have those practices, then surely you can name them.

brocab:
That took me all day to read, I did enjoy reading your book, not only did Christ anoint priest prophet and king.
Jesus anointed: {Ephesians 4:11} He gave some Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelist, and some Pastors and teachers.
"And everyone that believes, God had given us each of these gifts to share His anointing through Christ...
It was an enjoyable sermon you had written, and clearly of course it shows you believe, your Church, like every other Church is part of the puzzle, but what argument we have, most Churches preach bits and pieces of the Word of God, adding another doctrine, that isn't scriptural to bible knowledge-we are not arguing over the Word of God, it's the adding and removing-that causes disputes among the brethren.
I have no reason not to believe, you believe in Christ, but not only do you believe in Christ, the Catholic's believe in worship-something else other then Christ.

you took all day reading and yet you didn't correct the misinformation you posted above

JackBizzle:
"Fall from grace" is an understatement.

There have been more evil popes than good. Humans will always abuse power if not checked. The catholic church grants the pope as the highest representative of God- of course bad things are going to happen.

how did you manage to get this your statistics?

johnw74:
no uben, my meaning is correct because it's what the Bible says

truly uben, "brethren" in all the verses i posted referring to Jesus brothers is literal,
meaning His brothers

but of course you don't believe God

and uben, Jesus showed that "heathen" is certinally referring to you rc's:

Mat_6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

who told you so?

the literal meaning for Jews Is more than one... how did you manage to chose one and disregard others... of course your 19th century heretic teachers told you so

johnw74:
uben your lies are never ending you don't believe God, but use His word where it suits you, and of course you understand next to nothing, and how could you know truth, your teacher is satan via the rcc

and your teacher is Satan through copy and paste