₦airaland Forum

expert1000:
I hear uninformed pple here compare Tambuwal to mimiko.Mimiko is a governor,Tambuwal was a house of rep member.Tambuwal noz wot d constitution says abt his 'trying 2eat his cake and hav it'.Remember dat Kwankwaso,wammako,Amaechi and co defected too,and dia was no one threatenin 2declare dia seats vacant because a governor is different 4rm a legislator.Tambuwal didnot only win elections under d PDP buh rose 2become d speaker under thesame pdp umbrella,now he feels 2smart and defected at d wrong tym.jst do d needful and honourably resign.dis is d 4th tym Tambuwal is defectin 4rm 1party 2anoda.

Since you are a legal informed expert, can you give your informed opinion about the 7 defected Ekiti PDP house of rep members who now claim to represent the the entire Ekiti legistlature? with even one of them claiming to be the new speaker. Are you also asking all 7 legislatures to resign?

NgeneUkwenu:
The Nigeria Police have released a statement explaining why they sent police officers to the National Assembly this morning, preventing Tambuwal and other lawmakers from gaining access into the Assembly ground. Find the statement below...
Following an intelligence report of a likely invasion of the House of Representatives by hoodlums and thugs, the Nigeria Police Force promptly deployed its personnel to the premises to prevent a breakdown of law and order.
Consequently, the Police condoned the area and began screening of all members and visitors alike.

In the course of this lawful exercise, Alh. Aminu Tambuwal CFR, arrived the venue with a motley crowd, who broke the cordon, assaulted the Police and evaded due process and the Police had the duty to restore order and normalcy, using lawful means

The IGP seizes this medium to warn all political actors and their followers to respect constituted authority and due process and to desist from the use of thugs to pursue their agenda.

The Nigeria Police shall continually apply all lawful means to prevent a breakdown of law and order in all segments of the society and shall apply the full weight of the law on any political actor who violates the peace and security of the nation.   
 
Ag. CP EMMANUEL C. S. OJUKWU, psc
FORCE PUBLIC RELATIONS OFFICER
FORCE HEADQUARTERS

http://lindaikeji..com/2014/11/nigeria-police-explain-why-they-invaded.html?m=1

What intelligence report? Who gave the Police the intelligence report? its definitely not the senate president, the speaker or any of the legislators.

Why would the police screen members of the legistlature? Who give the police the powers to screen members of the the house or senate before allowing them into the chambers to perform their lawful duties?

Why demote the speaker from Right Honourable Aminu Tambuwal to Alh. Aminu Tambuwal? From this statement alone, it shows that the only mission of the police was to prevent Speaker Tambuwal from gaining access into the house of representative chambers. Speaker Tambuwal has become the thug the police were talking about. Meanwhile, 7 thugs (decamped legistlators) have taken over the Ekiti State house of assembly and declared one of themself speaker and the IGP does not see the need to respect constituted authority.

The IGP warn all political actors to respect constituted authorities? does that include the president, the vice, president, the senate president, the speaker, the governors etc? And what of the police itself, will they also be warned to respect constituted authority?

idupaul:
Tambuwal has to do the right thing and resign as speaker ..He can't have his cake and eat it

Why is it only Tambuwal that has to do the right thing? What of the numerous PDP lawmakers that had decamped in the past, why have you not impored them to do the right thing? What of the Ekiti seven that decamped when Fayose became governor? have they not become the ekiti state Ekiti State legistlature according to PDP? Why have you not asked the PDP, the defected lawmakers and the Governor to do the right thing?

Bishop4bella:
What's difficult there to take propare cleaning the state and enviro once a month.

Just because it disturb your functions now that you the state to suffer from communicable diseases.

Oga lawyer take it easy o

Do you need a law to force you to clean your environment once a month? How can you force everyone to clean their environment at the same time? are we living in a communist country? In sane societies environmental hygiene is the responsibility of individual citizen and environmental standards and codes are enforced by law enforcement officers. The idea is to make sure your environment are clean always and not just one day a month.

The restriction of movement by force is against our fundamental right of free movement as enshrined in the constitution.

Controlled demolition my foot. Have the head of Homicide division ever witnessed a controlled demolition? In fact have any of those sheep bleeping controlled demolition ever seen a controlled demolition? The are no control demolition experts in Nigeria. To control demolish the partially collapsed building on broad street, foreign experts had to be brought in at great cost.

Why would Bko Haram, MEND or UFOs waste time, money and expertise going through the hassle of control demolishing TB joshua's hostel when they could easily have used good old reliable and cheap TNT with a detonator or even cheaper Improvised explosive devices with a suicide bomber.

barcanista:
An Ijawman doesn't give-up a cause or fight that he believes in. This is something you have to realise.

I don't subscribe to illegitimate detention of journalists or any other people by any group, neither do I subscribe to self-help, however, I see the legitimacy of the struggle by all parties. The ijaws and Urhobos from my preliminary findings have not, will not and will never accept the legitimacy of Numa, neither will they respect any agreement signed by Numa on behalf of Warri nor will they accept any court judgement or verdict that was reached on the basis of the document signed by Numa. So what should be done to avert Warri Crisis II? The answer is Holistic Dialogue. El finito

I am shocked that an educated person is talking like this in the 21st century. If the Ijaws (leave out the urhobos, because the urhobos do not reason like this) will never accept a valid court judgement, based on evidence admitted by the court, then on what basis can there be dialogue?
you are invariably saying that the only solution acceptable to Ijaws is war.

Nigeria and Cameroon went to court over bakassi and Nigeria lost. Nigeria thereby handed Bakassi over to Cameroon in respect of the court judgement. The alternative would have been an expensive war. Itsekiris and Urhobos went to court over Sapele and the Itsekiris lost and the Itsekiris now accept sapele as an Urhobo town. But the Ijaws tell us they would never respect any court judgement that does not favour them.

War and crisis do not profit anybody. Both sides lost a great deal during the last crisis and would lose more if a new crisis comes up. Ijaws can go back and challenge the court judgement if they have new evidence to claim land ownership, but to resort to threats is unacceptable. To claim land ownership you have to have some kind of evidence to back your claims, you do not threaten and hope to cower people to give you land.

If the above statements were indeed made by the head of Homicide Department of the State Criminal Investigation Department of the Nigerian Police, then we are screwed in this country. We can as well assume we have no police, only tax "egunje collectors".

So the Police had to rely on footage given by synagogue to conclude their investigations, no site visits, no physical forensic investigations, no questioning witnesses - nothing.

So where is the evidence of the chemicals or electronic devices used to control demolish the hostel?
According to basic physics, what should be rate of fall of a building that collapsed under its own weight? should the rate be different if it was done with chemicals and electronic device?

Can someone please make sense of the quote below,

The panel also interviewed one Taiwo Temitayo Taiwo, aged 28 years, one of the surviving victims of the collapsed building and I quote, ‘Immediately the building was coming down, what I saw or heard was like a thunderous lightning accompanied with a sound, hitting the wall as if someone was using a saw to cut an iron, then the house collapsed,'” Agoyi submitted.

PriceOfGarri:
Some people will just comment for commenting sake. Smh

One "lady" above even said "Okonjo is the worst minister ever"
I can bet my day that she doesn't have any reason for saying that.

@topic
When almost 98% of the govt's expenditure depends solely on oil revenue, if the oil price crashes, why won't the currency crash?

I wish we had saved enough for the rainy days, as been shouted by mrs Iweala in the past.

I concur that Okonjo Iweala is the worse finance minister ever. And i have tons of reasons.

She is practically in charge of Nigerian economy as the co-ordinating minister of the economy. It is her job to structure the economy against shocks like this. That the Nigerian government is still dependent of oil revenue four years after being in charge of the economy is a testimony of her incompetence. To make matters worse she is talking about saving for rainy days. Can she predict how long the rains would last? What if the rainy days last for years or even decades. It is like a man saving for rainy days when he is making lots of money. How long do you think the saved cash will last when he stops making money? The most sensible thing to do is to invest excess money and hope to live of the the investments when the rainy days come.

This is what countrys like Kuwait, Qatar and UAE did. They do not sit on excess oil money saving for rainy days. These countries have so much investments locally and internationally that even if their oil wells dry out, they would still be wealthy.

And to think this is the thinking of a havard trained, world bank economist.

Even the courts agree with our dear president. Mere stealing and fools(poor Nigerian masses) are calling it corruption.

Franzeez:
Good day nairalanders, having seen what our past leaders achieved in comparism with that of GEJ I think he has done well, he has tried, he deserves a second chance. The circumstance surrounding his govt has not been healthy, Insurgence, bokoharam, stiff opposition and so much disloyalty because of greedy intrest of politicians. For me I will vote GEJ in 2015, he is a leader. The best leaders are those unfazed inspite of so many chaos.... Nigerians will always have their opinions but GEJ is the right choice...

Excusocracy - Government on excuses by excuses and for excuses. Government of trying, attempting, planning and good intentions but little physical achievements to point to.

An army of sheep led by a lion would defeat an army of lions led by a sheep. - Alexander the Great

This quote aptly apply to the situation in Nigeria now

PhockPhockMan:
Do you think Nigeria Army is more equipped than nuclear powered nation like Ukraine that have lost large chunk of their territory to insurgents. What of Syria and Iraq who have lost almost 40% of their territories to ISIS, despite help of America and their NATO allies. It was the same rag tag group like boko haram that over ran Gaddafi's dreaded army and toppled his government. In 1991, an insurgent group led by FARAH AIDID defeated American military in Somalia with little effort.
Why I'm narrating all these events is to show you the mystery power of insurgency. I expect some of you to hail the efforts of the Nigerian military without attaching politics, religion and bigotry

It is annoying when you guys talk as if you are talking to illiterates, you lie, twist logic on its head and attempt to compare oranges to eggs in order to give useless excuses for the incompetence of the government you are supporting.

The so called Nuclear power of Ukraine was built by the Russians during the Soviet era, and it is the control of the Nuclear bases situated in Eastern Ukraine that is the main bone of contention in the on going civil war in Ukraine. The rebels (not insurgents) are ethnic Russian Ukrainians being back, funded and equipped by Russia to break away from Ukraine, because the government in Kiev has decided to align with the west. How does that compare with Nigerian Military failures in the war against insurgents.

No rag tag insurgent group defeated Colonel Gaddafi, It was the west NATO, the US and France that defeated Gadaffi. In fact at the beginning of the Civil war, In spite of all the ammunition and logistics supplied by France and the US, Gadaffi almost overran Benghazi, the rebel capital. It was when the US got physically involved by bombing Gadaffi's troops and the crippling the libyan air defences by imposing a no fly zone that the rebel were able to gain the upper hand in the war. Without the US and France, Gadaffi would have ruthlessly dealt with the rebels. So what is stopping President Goodluck Jonathan from dealing ruthlessly with Boko Haram?

Farah Aidid defeated the US military in a war? I honest do not know how to respond to that fallacy.

Hail the Nigerian Military? The Nigerian army that runs away from its barracks at the sight of Boko Haram, leaving all their armory behind? and leaving Nigerian towns and cities at the mercy of Boko Haram? A Nigerian army that swore to Uphold the territorial integrity of Nigeria and yet leaves about 24 local government for boko Haram to control?

We should coin a new word for you guys - EXCUSEOCRACY. Government of excuses by excuses. Blame every other person or thing except those in charge.

studded:
My dear brother, I beg to Disagree with you o (if u won't mind) Loosing territories to terrorist groups like BH is not peculiar to Nigeria o. Have u 4gotten Al-Qada and most recently; ISIS?

All what the Nigerian army need is our full support and prayers

Please stop this "full support and prayers" bulshit being propagated by PDP, TAN and the government. What a modern army needs to succeed are Motivation, military hardware, training and most important of all good commanders.

Al-Qaida did not hold unto any territory and was never interested in capturing any territory, their main goal was the elimination of western influence from Islamic nations and revenge on the west for killing fellow Muslims in Afghanistan and Iraq.

ISIS came up due to the crisis generated as the result of the civil war that started in Syria and spilled into Iraq due to the Incompetent, sectarian and corrupt leadership of Al-Malaki.

I am not impressed by these endless musical chairs btween the Nigerian military and Boko Haram. Today Boko Haram takes Chibok, Damboa, Mubi, Baga, etc, tomorrow the military retakes, the next day Boko haram retakes again.

This is not how wars are fought and won, you will only succeed in gradually wearing out your soldiers. It is frustrating to ask soldiers to go back and and recapture a town they had already fought bravely and gallantly to capture.

This war and wars generally are not won on the battle field, they are won from the command centres. Wars are like a chess game and the opposing commanders are the players. You out-think your opponent and not send soldiers into the war front without a strategy or goal. Nigerian Commanders seem to always respond in a knee jerk like manner to Boko Haram moves. We have not seen any brilliant strategy from the Nigerian military to counter Boko Haram.

To me i believe the main goal of Boko Haram is to take over Maiduguru. They are using the two prong strategy of encircling the city by capturing the surrounding towns and villages and at the same time widening the scope of their attacks on many other communities in order to pull out substantial troops from maiduguru as it is a heavy fortified town. They would continue to test the defenses of Maiduguri by launching sporadic attacks and see the responses from Nigerian Troops. Once they confident enough they would then pull all their resources for a full scale attack on Maiduguri. If Maiduguri falls, the war is as good as lost.

It is a disgrace for any military commander to lose a captured territory so easily. In a war reserves are called to hold unto territories after the main fighting force has captured it. This gives the main fighting force freedom to advance on the enemy and capture other towns.

Mogidi:
Its not just Ijaws that hates the Itsekiris, the Urhobos hate them too. When Awolowo was premier of Western region he favoured the Itsekiris, made the Olu of Itsekiri to be the Olu of Warri. Itsekiri influence died with the plebiscite of 1963 that carved out the midwest from the western region.

I personally believe the Itsekiris would be better off relocated to Ondo state.

And every other tribe in the Nigerdelta love the Ijaws? The Urhobos, the Benis, the Ilajes and others are at peace with the Ijaws, right? Forget the marriage of convenience now with the Igbos, the marriage is predicated on returning Jonathan to power.

The Only language the Ijaws understand is threats and violence. Instead of them to threaten

APContherun:
And Tinubu the Dean of the Faculty of Corruption is the leader of the Yoruba nation, worshipped by even people who should know.

What kind of house was Oby`s mother living in that she could not afford the rent as a minister?

The question you need to find out;
What was the legitimate salary and allowances of a minister during Obasanjo's era?
What were the total expenditure obligations of Mrs Ezekwelisi - Bills, Childrens's school fees and upkeep and family obligations.
What are her own personal needs- Leisure, clothing and jewelries, etc.

And finally, how long was she a minister?

I now see why ministers and public officials need to embezzle as fast as possible when they get to office. The expectations of friends, family and the masses is unrealistic.

gtrust:
I thought she worked for world bank
Why she no build small house for mother
Ministers earn very good money: what was Madam due Process doing with her own salary

Ordinary Nigerians can afford their rents so

What is the total package for a minister? What is the basic salary plus allowances? A minster who does not create a scheme for defrauding the government or the people cannot afford to build a small house for anybody.

She was appointed as Vice President of the World Bank after serving as a minster of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

I wonder why you TAN hacks cannot get your facts right.

Nigerians love corrupts individuals and lothe honest public servants - especially the southern and eastern parts of the country. That is why people like Alamiesiegha, Goodluck Jonathan, Ibori, Odili, Peter Obi are revered, while people like Oby Ezekwesili, Nuru Ribadu, Tam David- West, Wole Soyinka, General Buhari, and a few others who served Nigeria without stealing are hated and called names.

Thieves and rogues have become role models for our children. And you will wonder if Nigeria has any future at all.

A Nigeran civil servant without stealing or engaging in dishonest means of making money would not be able to buy and maintain luxury cars, pay expensive school fees for his/her children - home or abroad and pay house rent for other members of their family.

If Nigeria is planing to buy arms from Russia at this time, the question i need answered is; Where have the country been buying arms all these years? Where have they been buying military equipments with our over 1 trillion naira yearly defense budget?
We urgently need answers for these questions from the PDP government after 15 years of running the government.

President Goodluck Jonathan share a similar fate with president Lyndon Johnson, Both assumed office after the death of their boss, the completed the term of their boss and got elected for their own fresh term. They both were involved in fighting a war they inherited from their predecessor. They both failed to win their respective wars.

But here is how they differ in attitude. Lyndon Johnson decline to go for a second term because of the disapproval of the American citizens of his handling of the vietnam war. But in President Jonathan's case, he is celebrating his declaration of a second term bid inspite of the general anger of the Nigerian population of his handling of the Boko Haram insulgency. The Boko Haram guy take Nigerian Territories at will, kill civilians at will, including school boys and the Army run from their barracks at the mere mention of Boko Haram. And the commander in chief of the Nigerian armed forces is limited to making only speeches, condolences and promises.

Here is the speech from Lyndon Johnson declining nomination from his party to vie for a second term;

With American sons in the fields far away, with America’s future under challenge right here at home, with our hopes and the world’s hopes for peace in the balance every day, I do not believe that I should devote an hour or a day of my time to any personal partisan causes or to any duties other than the awesome duties of this office, the presidency of your country. Accordingly, I shall not seek and I will not accept the nomination of my party for another term as your president.

Here is the speech from President Jonathan Declaring his intention to run for a second term;

Distinguished ladies and gentlemen, our stewardship has not been without challenges. We have had to deal with the wave of insurgency that has swept through some parts of our dear country. Only yesterday, Government Science Secondary School in Yobe State was bombed by insurgents, killing our promising young children who were seeking education to build the country and support their parents. Many Nigerians have lost their lives and property to these mindless killings. Let me crave the indulgence of all present here to stand up to observe a minutes silence in honour of these young lads who lost their lives. Clearly, this has cast a dark cloud on our Nation but we will surely win the war against terror. A number of young men and women have been kidnapped by these criminal elements including our daughters from Chibok. We will free our daughters and defeat terrorism.

We are equipping the armed forces and deploying special forces to engage the terrorist and end this senseless war. We must protect our country. We must save our people. I will do everything humanly possible to end this criminal violence in our Nation.

I usually hate arguing with paid to post agents but they seem to be misleading the nigerian youth who were either not born during the Buhari era or too young to know what went down.

Yes General Buhari made mistakes during his rule, he was authoritarian, he denied press freedom, he applied a law retroactively and more. but his legacies can never be forgotten. We the older generation that lived through the era remember him actually paying up our debts. He had a schedule of paying off the debts completely in a few years and actually paid about $4 billion before he was overthrown by IBB. Forget the figures PDP-TAN controlled DMO is spewing out ahead of 2015 general elections, if you want to get the actual debt profile and economic performance of the period, get newspaper clipping from 1983 - 1985, or get information from foreign media.

Obanikoro turning facts and logic on its head.

The southern African country, he said, benefitted
immensely from Nigeria during the dark days of
apartheid rule and rather than repay Nigeria’s
good deeds, went all out to embarrass the
country.

The Apartheid South African govenment benefitted nothing from Nigeria. In fact during the Apartheid era, Nigeria was technically at war with South Africa.
It was the ANC which then was considered a rebel group that the Nigerian government was aiding. So the transactions were illegal because ANC was not recognized by the South African government, the US and UK. There was never a time that the South African government attempted to illegally smuggle hard cash in Nigeria to illegally purchase arms.

Fielding Okorocha as a vice presidential candidiate would be political suicide for APC. The Igbos hate APC so much that they would not vote APC even if they give them the presidential ticket. APC should forget South East votes, and concentrate on the South west, North east and north west. I think Amaechi would be a good option and he is has some popularity in the south south and he is liked in the south west.

What shall it profit SCOAN's security camera to capture hovering planes (or UFOs) and the actual collapse but was unable to capture the Boko Boys installing the explosives neccessary to implode the building.

On second thoughts it is a controlled demolition. The implosion was controlled by adding at least 2 extra deckings to a structure that was designed to take only a few floors. The weak foundation, weak pillars and weak beams controlled the demolition.

Clowns behaving like motor park touts. Why did the NSA not explain why the Nigerian Government knowingly broke South African money laundering laws by attempting to smuggle $9.7 million into their country. So just because this batch of $5.7 million passed through the banks, it could not be illegally laundered money?

A sane government would use diplomatic and legal means to achieve its objectives instead of spewing threats all over the place. So the fact that South African mega companies operate in Nigeria now gives us the right to disregard their laws?

The $5.7 million transaction looked suspicious, especially occuring just after the botched $9.7 million smuggling fiasco, so the government obtained a court order from the South Gauteng High Court to seize the money. The most sane thing to do is for our attorney general to assemble a team of lawyers to South Africa to show the court that the money is legitimate, and then demand a public apology from the South African government once the money is declared legitimate.

Dmacaw:
All this rubbish you wrote actually appears like sense to you right?
Pst Ayo in his explanation send he obtained relevant permit to commercialize the aircraft..
CAN you state clearly the aviation law the pastor broke in his bid to commercialize the aircraft? Secondly don't swallow every poo you read Falana in his assertion was not even sure what the jet was as, he used the word "allegedly" registered for evangelism. The question is why is Falana not in court to prove his claim? Secondly there is no law which prohibits two company from entering into contract agreement Eagle Air and Green Coast. And for your information Green Coast Produce Ltd the company which the jet was leased out to gave an official statement even making public the name of the person who chattered the jet to SA as John Ishayku. You can google that for yourself.

Pastor Ayo need not explain that he obtained relevant permit to commercialize his aircraft (gift), all he needs to do is to show us and his constituency the said permits he claims to have obtained, and skeptics would get off his case.

Allegedly is a term used by lawyers in cases not yet determined by a court. Even if a person is caught on camera stealing, he is still an alleged theif.

There is a law a law prohibiting the use of private planes for commercial purposes. When questioned about the plane, pastor Ayo explained that the plane was for evangelical purposes, he did not tell us it was for commercial purposes.

Since you are the person in charge of the leasing deal, please explain how it works; Pastor Oritsejafor's church members decided to buy him a plane to ease his evengelical travels, the pastor then decided to lease the plane tho Eagle Air (his company), who then leased it to Green Coast Produce Ltd, who in turn chartered it to John Ishayku, who then used it to ferry cash illegally to South Africa on behalf of the Nigerian government to illegally buy weapons (without the knowledge of the south african government). They would then clandestinely ferry the money in the same plane back to Nigeria.

Please educate us further.

Dmacaw:
You can go ahead and tell us why his Plane was used? Even a toddler who wants to launder money would not one to leave a trace by using anything that is traceable to him.
if his church members bought him a plane for evangelism and he decides to commercialize it to help maintenance cost and not burden the church what crime has he committed? And by the way why do you think he owes you an explanation for what he does with his property?
Your family must be confused not certain your conception was planned..Ayo Oritsejafor is a gift to CAN.

Are you just being sarcastic or your brains have been bleach washed? How many Nigerian big men have been caught for money laundering? The son of a state governor is facing money laundering charges in Nigeria for attempting to smuggle undeclared money through our airports and he is not a toddler. Any money being smuggled into or out of a country ( against relevant laws) is known as money laundering. You think if a plane load of dollars land at heathrow airport or JFK airport (undeclared), you think the authorities there would accept the explanation that the Nigerian government are aware of the cash. The people caught would be facing jail time by now.

If Oritsejafor's members bought him a plane for evangelism, how come he decided to use it for a commercial venture without their knowledge? Besides are you aware that it is illegal to convert personal planes to commercial purposes in Nigeria? Is the pastor going to be paying taxes on this commercial venture?

Ayo is a Gift for CAN by turning can into a branch of PDP? In sane societies, Ayo would have since resigned as CAN president to save christians the embarrassment of his involvement in the money laundering/ arms smuggling saga.

The South African media have published documents confirming the legitimacy of the $9.3million botched arms deals between Nigeria and the former apartheid enclave.
Reports by Rapport and City Press affirmed federal government’s official position that the transactions were legitimate.

So where can we see the published documents?

Also why are we getting the news from a private press and not official government channels?

If the physical transfer of $9.3 million is legitimate, why is the case still in court? Have the government withdrawn the case, return the case to Nigeria and apologize to the people of Nigeria for the embarrassment?

This is what TAN warriors and government apologists fail to realize, the whole world would recognize and praise you if you succeed. At the same time they would valify and catigate you when you mess up.

The whole world recognize the great feat Nigeria achieved by tackling and eliminating ebola.

I also would like to congratulate the federal Government, the Lagos State Government and the Nigerian people for this positive achievement. It is nice to hear positive news about Nigeria once a while.

I hate arguing all over the place, while ignoring the prime subject matter. The main subject here is whether human activities is responsible for the change in climate the earth is said to be going through and you are talking about human impact on the environment. All species of animals ( and in fact all living things) on earth has some impact on its immidiate environment (and sometimes distant environment),but to suggest that just one specie can have permanet impact on the whole planet is what i call far feached. And for your information, 99% of all species on earth had gone extinct, even before humans came on the scene.

wiegraf: ^^^

Don't know about global warming, or at least the details, but humans clearly can have dramatic impacts on an ecosystem. Why is climate exempt?

Of course humans have impact (sometimes dramatic)on the ecosystem( around which it operates), but to suggest that impact affect the earth's climate permantly is preposterous.

wiegraf: Eg, wiping out large swathes of forests, other species (whilst aiding others, true, we've likely gotten rid of billions, and most of the time for no good reason other than perhaps getting a better view), burning through energy reserves that have taken billions of years to accumulate, etc etc. General wikki

I cannot make sense of your statement above, but if you are talking about humans destroying forests for human habitation, then i can tell you that nature itself often destroys large swaths of forests by itself but it always recovers. Forest fires sometimes burn very large swaths of forests, killing many species and destroying the whole ecosystem. Earthquakes, Tsunamis and volcanic eruptions have devastated whole continents in the past, but the earth recovers and moves on.

wiegraf: You could also try visiting Chernobyl and various parts of Japan to study just how drastic our actions can be on an environment (you might even get to meet godzilla). We even 'terraform', more or else, on fairly large scales. See Dubai (or one of those emirates, I forget which). I wouldn't be surprised if some of the scientists that claim humans play no role in global warming etc are the same ones drawing up plans to terraform Mars or some of Neptune's/Jupiter's moons etc.

Are you telling me Chenobyl changed the entire earth's climate? Of course not. Chenobyl only affected that tiny part of Russia significantly and even at that, the radioactive effects would have neutralized in a few thousand years. Even Heroshima and Nagasaki is fast recovering from the effect of the atomic bombs droped in 1945.

Terraforming another planet is just science fantasy (not even science fiction), we do not have the energy or the materials to terraform another planet, we hardly have enough to sustain our planet. We should first terraform Antatica to allow human habitation or terraform the ocean depths to sustain cities before we attempt to terraform mars.

I will stop here for now. ( i am tired and need to sleep). We human think too much of ourselves and our importance, we feel and behaves as if the whole earth and the entire universe is made for us. If the conditions on earth changes so drastically that humans die out, the earth would still be trotting on without even noticing our absence.

Let me deflate some egos;
71% of the earth's surface is water while the entire land mass is only 29%. Of that 29% humans occupy less than 1% of that area. Of the remaining 28% about 40% is pure wilderness. 14% is true desert and 15% has desert like characteristics. 9% is Antarctica. Most of the remaining 22% are agricultural areas. There may be other areas with a human footprint of some kind. So there is little we can do on the less than 1% that can have permanent damage on the remaining 99% of the earth's surface

Bulls! How can one buy market without testing or tasting? I never buy non tested except it comes with a money back guarantee.