Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? - Religion (7) - Nairaland
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| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 8:46am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Freksy: Reading this your long post, i don't see anything here that says easter celebration (celebration of Jesus resurrection) is of pagan origin. abi you don't know what it means to say a celebration is of pagan origin? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by italo: 8:46am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Did you know you are Pagan? Posted October 30, 2011 by Holy Host Every year around the holiday known as Halloween, I receive emails, calls and tweets asking about the origins of this celebration and if it OK for Christians to partake in it. And like many things surrounding your life in this world, and your faith, there is some controversy. But is the controversy, in this case, necessary? Are the roots of Halloween found in Paganism, yes. Does this automatically mean a Christian cannot partake in any part of a Halloween celebration? Of course not. Most historians believe Halloween originated with the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced SOW-in, SAH-vin, or SAM-hayne meaning “End of Summer”). During this festival people would light huge communal bonfires and wear costumes, mostly comprised of animal heads and furs, to ward off roaming spirits and ghosts. When the eighth century rolled around, Pope Gregory III designated November 1 as “All Saints’ Day”, this was to be a time to honor all of the saints and martyrs who had passed on. This new holiday incorporated many of the traditions of the Samhain festival. {Think of it this way, it’s much easier to paint an old building and put up a new sign than it is to tear it down and start from scratch. This was nothing new and had been done many times before. For instance, many Pagan customs were combined with Christianity when Constantine converted the official Pagan religion of the Roman Empire to Christianity between 320 and 330 A.D.} Now, the evening before “All Saints’ Day was known as All Hallows’ Eve and this later became Halloween. Over the centuries, Halloween has evolved into a secular and very commercial celebration embraced by communities as more of a child-centric holiday with activities like trick-or-treating or decorating your home to look spooky. The truth of the matter is, with healthy parental involvement, Halloween can be a fun and creative time for children. I assure you, kids aren’t parsing the multi-faceted theological underpinnings of the possibility of an antecedent Pagan genesis…they just want to play dress-up and get free sweets. The problem the God of Christianity has with Paganism, or any other belief system for that matter, is not with the general practices of the belief necessarily, but the fact that they worship another God all together. Exodus 20:3 “You shall have no other gods before me.” God wants you to celebrate and glorify Him in everything you do. 2,000 years ago, Pagans sacrificed animals, but so did our Jewish brothers and sisters under God’s command. The same act with different intent was a “pleasing aroma” to God as it says in Genesis 8:20-21. Genesis 8:20-21 20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD and, taking some of all the clean animals and clean birds, he sacrificed burnt offerings on it. 21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: “Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done. So it’s not just the act itself, it is the intent and purpose of the act that matters to God. Sacrifice to idols or false gods, not good. Sacrifice to the one true, holy and righteous God, good. Discarding something just because Pagans or any other faith did or does it, really isn’t the balanced approach, any more than vegetarianism is bad because Hitler adhered to a primarily vegetarian diet. You probably don’t even know how many things already in your life come from Pagan origins. If you are wearing a wedding ring you are wearing something with origins in Paganism and ancient magic. The circle is seen as endless and timeless and suggests a kind of repetitive, unbroken time and space, you can see it in many Pagan uses like Stonehenge. Even in Christianity there are symbols and practices that came from or were used by Pagans. In his 1878 Essay on the Development of the Christian Doctrine, John Henry Newman, who was originally a priest in the Church of England and later a cardinal in the Roman Catholic Church, wrote: “The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, and candles; ….holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields, ….the ring in marriage, …. are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church.” Even the cross that adorns many churches has Pagan origins. Also the beloved fish symbol used by many to identify themselves as Christians on clothing and on their cars was used by Pagans generations before Christianity. The New Age movement, Hindus, Taoists, Buddhists and others use the symbol of the fish to express their beliefs as well. The symbol for Virgo, the sixth astrological sign in the Zodiac, has a Pagan fish in it. In the Dictionary of Symbols it states that: “Virgo, is based on the Hebraic letter ‘mem’ and the Phoenician symbol meaning ‘fish’. It became, early on, a sign representing Jesus and the mystery of His virginal birth.” So as you can see you will have to run very far to try and distance yourself from anything that has Pagan roots or is associated with religions other than Christianity. How much more important is it that the things and customs in your life are all dedicated to God rather than looking for the devil under every stone. Celebrations like Halloween can seem like a contradiction to Christianity at first, but really it is more how it is celebrated than where it came from that matters. When churches shy away from Halloween opting instead to celebrate a “harvest festival” or the like it gives children more of a reason to be curious about why everyone else is celebrating something they are not and maybe even seek out more about Paganism than they would have otherwise…not to mention celebrating the harvest has Pagan origins as well. Everything in life can be used for good or evil, a knife can either kill in the hands of a mugger or heal in the hands of a surgeon. Remember, how you use or partake in something and your intent is important. 1 Corinthians 10:31 “So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.” http://www.thejesuschristshow.com/2011/did-you-know-you-were-pagan/ NB: I do not necessarily subscribe totally to everything in this post or in the website but it definitely contains elements that go to prove my case convincingly. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 8:49am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Freksy: at bolded, you can see historians are not even sure of their facts. it obvious you guys don't have facts to support your claim. why criticize based on rumors/hearsay? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Nobody: 8:53am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Italo is a master dribbler, am suprised he hasnt used his *SUSPECTED LUNA...* for a while now, perhaps it could be as a result of his many defeats on NL. Can u call ur child SANGO and say its the child that matters,not the name? *ITALO EXPECTED TO DRIBBLE AGAIN* 1 Like |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by ijawkid(m): 9:03am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Segeggs: Italo is a master dribbler, am suprised he hasnt used his *SUSPECTED LUNA...* for a while now, perhaps it could be as a result of his many defeats on NL. No mind am........italo and his ilks are ever ready to hold on to what ever is pagan.......just about anything......  .... |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 9:07am On Apr 09, 2013 |
ijawkid: young man, you are yet to answer my question  i asked how eating & drinking in remembrance of Christ ended up becoming 'passing the plate & bottle' in remembrance of Christ. abi you think say i don forget? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by italo: 9:31am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Paganism — Where Should Christians Draw the Line? Paganism is a highly controversial subject. Can we use pagan customs in the church of God? We already do. Simply because something has a pagan origin does not mean that it is sinful to use it, even for a religious use. Wedding rings were and are a pagan custom, and there is no biblical command for them, but we use them in church-sanctioned ceremonies. Wedding ceremonies themselves were also a pagan custom, and are not commanded in Scripture. Funerals include pagan customs, too, based on erroneous ideas about the afterlife. Scripture says nothing about putting flowers on graves, etc. Egyptian mythology said that the dead should be embalmed, and Joseph participated in this custom (Gen. 50:2-3) despite its pagan origin. Pagans created statues — of animals and people, both life-size and miniatures. They had statues in their flower gardens and statues in their homes. But statues have lost their "pagan" connotations because people do not believe in such gods and goddesses anymore. Money has pagan designs on it. Some U.S. coins used to have the goddess "Liberty" on them. Dollar bills have an eye over a pyramid. Pagans assigned days of the week to different gods, and we still use these names. So the question arises, How careful must we be in weeding paganisms out of our lives? Where do we draw the line? The answer is, different Christians draw the line in different places. We need to allow some diversity on these issues. Some conservative churches used to forbid wedding rings. Some forbid Christmas and Easter. They are careful to do what God says, and if God tells them to avoid paganism, then they carefully do it. Some are so careful that they err on the side of forbidding too much — but they err. They make commands about things that God doesn't command. That is a sin. Example of the Corinthians In the first-century Church, gentile Christians were told to avoid meat that had been sacrificed to pagan idols (Acts 15:29). However, Paul told the Corinthians that they could eat meat sold in the public market even though that meat may have been sacrificed to an idol (1 Cor. 10:25). He told them not to eat in the pagan temple. In other words, he told them to avoid blatant paganism, but they did not have to superstitiously avoid everything that paganism might have touched at some time in the past. In Corinth, some Christians were more careful than others, and some more liberal than others. Paul told them they could eat the meat, but he also told them to be cautious about causing offense (verses 32-33). However, love does not mean that we all have to abide by the strictest person's conscience. No matter how many people think we ought to be circumcised and to keep the law of Moses, we don't have to (Acts 15). Even if some Christians think we should be vegetarians (and some do), we don't have to abide by their conscience (Rom. 14:1-  . Paul says that we have freedom, but we are to use our freedom in a sensitive way.Now let us imagine a first-century potluck in the Corinthian church. Everyone has brought their food and everyone has eaten a little bit of everything. Suddenly some overly zealous convert, anxious to avoid the paganism he recently came out of, starts asking questions about the meat. The Smith family, he finds out, bought their beef from Marcus Agorus, and Marcus always has his cows killed at the temple of Zeus. The casserole has been tainted with pagan-tainted meat, and everybody has eaten some of it! What should the zealous convert do with this information? Should he announce it throughout the congregation, leading to an ever-more-diligent search for pagan-tainted foods? Of course not. The sensible (and the Christian) thing to do would be to keep quiet — but overly zealous converts sometimes aren't sensible. Their zeal overcomes good sense, and although they think they are acting in love, they are actually causing an unnecessary and unhelpful disturbance with their "knowledge." That's what happens today when people preach that wedding rings are pagan. It is possible to be too zealous in avoiding things that have connections with paganism. Yelling about idol-tainted meat doesn't do anything to strengthen anyone's faith in Christ. All it would do is cause doubts and irritations. That is basically what some people do in their vociferous condemnations of Christmas. People today generally learn about Christmas as a Christian custom, not as a pagan custom. It's like they saw the meat in the market and there was a sign saying "OK for Christians." So they bought it, and then someone comes along and tells them it was tainted. Some people don't think that the example of meat can apply to holidays; some people do. So, they draw their lines in different places. People generally consider themselves as strong and others as weak, but how are the weak and the strong to get along with each other? Not by enforcing conformity, but by allowing some diversity. When was Jesus born? Some people have claimed that Jesus was born near the fall festivals. That is possible, but it is not proven. Luke 2:1-3 says that "everyone went to his own town to register." Why would "everyone" go to such trouble? Apparently it was required. However, it is not likely that Rome would risk a rebellion by requiring each person to go to his own city at the same time as the local religion required everyone to go to Jerusalem. Most likely, an empire-wide census would take several years, and would be administered locally, by local customs, taking into account local religious festivals. Many people have objected to the idea that Jesus was born in December, since there were shepherds staying in the fields (Luke 2: , and shepherds didn't normally do that in December. But the Jewish Mishnah Seqal. 7:4 reports that flocks were kept in the fields near Bethlehem, even in winter. The weather there is sometimes cold, but sometimes quite mild in December. Of course, this doesn't prove that Jesus was born in December, but it shows that the chief objection to a December birth isn't conclusive.In the early third century (long before Constantine), Julius Africanus and Hippolytus came up with December 25 as the date of Jesus' birth. They don't tell us how they came up with this date, but John Chrysostom does. His calculation may have been innocent, or it may have been contrived. We do not know what his motive was. Therefore, we cannot say that the December 25 date was contrived simply because a pagan festival already existed on that date. When the church first began celebrating Christmas, it had nothing to do with trees and holly and reindeer. All those were added centuries later in northern Europe. The fact that non-Christian customs were later associated with the festival does not prove that the date itself originated in paganism. It may have been based on calculation instead. However, for the moment let us suppose that Christmas originated as a deliberate substitution for Saturnalia, a pagan holiday. Many of the people who attended church were recently-converted pagans. Some were not-yet converted pagans. They were attracted to the Saturnalia festivities, and sitting at home alone was not a desirable option when merrymaking could be heard in the streets all around. So, the theory goes, the church provided a clean alternative: going to church. Would it be wrong to have a church service in deliberate opposition to Saturnalia? Of course not. There is no question of the church trying to worship God by the customs of the heathen — the church is fighting against the customs of the heathen. Only the date is the same, and there is good reason to have church services on that date, on which members can invite their unconverted friends and family into church and away from paganism. At some point, Christians could have made the comparison: on this date, pagans celebrate the birth of the sun god, but we are worshipping the sun of righteousness (Mal. 4:2). We can celebrate his birth, too. That may have been the way Christmas started. Apparently in the early centuries it was primarily a church service. And the strategy seems to have been successful: no one celebrates Saturnalia any more. Christians don't observe Christmas in honor of the sun god, just as they don't worship the little figurines that they may have in their homes or gardens. Although December 25, like many other dates, was once used for idol worship, it isn't anymore. Consider the case of Christians in Korea, for example. December 25 was not a pagan holiday there. And yet Christians there now observe December 25. Why? Because missionaries introduced the holiday. For them, it has a Christian origin, not a pagan one. Should the scrupulous Christians go in to tell them that December 25 was once sacrificed to an idol and should therefore be avoided? That approach creates doubts, not dedication. It does not edify or encourage. Scriptures Two scriptures have often been used to argue against Christmas customs. Jeremiah 10 has nothing to do with Christmas trees. That custom originated in northern Europe and had nothing to do with Jeremiah centuries earlier. Deut. 12:30 has also been appealed to, but the verse simply doesn't forbid everything the pagans did (for another article, click here.) God does not object to all worship practices of the pagans (such as prayer, sacrifices and temples), but only the abominations that they did in worship. Basically, if it's wrong, it's wrong on any day of the year. That's the kind of customs we need to beware. But if a custom is harmless in July (decorating the house with colored lights, for example), then we needn't condemn it in December. We can't let centuries-dead pagans dictate what we can or can't do. They have no authority over our calendar. Eastern Orthodox Christians observe January 6 as a festival for the birth of Christ. They were not influenced by Rome or Saturnalia. Does anyone feel a compulsion to dig into history looking for something bad about this day so it can be disqualified? Does anyone feel a compulsion to ask whether the date was once sacrificed to an idol? I hope not. Let's summarize: It is not wrong to rejoice at the birth of Jesus. It is not wrong to do this every year. It is not wrong to add a religious festival. The date of Dec. 25 isn't necessarily pagan. Even if the date is pagan, it isn't automatically wrong to use things that used to be pagan, such as wedding rings, funeral customs, statues, and the names of days. If the date is permissible and church services are permissible, but certain customs are not, then people ought to specify which customs are ungodly rather than just condemning everything associated with the date. If a fat man in a red suit is permissible, but fables about him are not, then we need to identify the sin without condemning the harmless. Of course, different Christians will draw the lines in different places, and we need to get along with each other. Conclusion Paganism is an emotion-laden subject. Conservative Christians have a history of being dogmatic, legalistic, and of misusing the Scriptures when we argue our point. With that history, of course, it is impossible to discuss this subject without somebody disagreeing. Each person thinks himself to be properly balanced — but each person's balance point is different. Equally sincere people draw lines in different places. What then are we to do? Should the church legislate about which practices are OK and which are not? That is not our commission. We are not in the Talmud business. Each Christian should draw his or her own lines, and be tolerant of those who draw different lines. Do not judge your brother, Paul says (Romans 14:5-13). That is one of the most difficult commandments in the entire Bible! No one has to participate in Christmas or Easter, but we should not condemn those who do. Some will do it one way and some will do it another. Whether you participate or whether you abstain, do it all to the Lord, and let him be the judge. This is the Christian approach to the cultural situation today. http://www.gci.org/church/holidays/paganism NB: I do not necessarily subscribe totally to everything in this post or in the website but it definitely contains elements that go to prove my case convincingly. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by italo: 9:33am On Apr 09, 2013 |
ijawkid: Just like you hold on to the names of the months and days of the week which is pagan? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by italo: 9:41am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Segeggs: Italo is a master dribbler, am suprised he hasnt used his *SUSPECTED LUNA...* for a while now, perhaps it could be as a result of his many defeats on NL. Yes. Why do you hold on to the names of the months and the days of the week which are pagan? When Paul told the Corinthians that they could eat meat sacrificed to idols, was he encouraging paganism? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by truthislight: 10:31am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Zikkyy: The only thing you see as being wrong in your life of recent is tith, every other thing is well with you including fornication. Abi na lie i dey talk? Expecting much from your kind maybe expecting too much. But there are other readers that are not your kind and wish to give to God a "pure worship" owing to their appreciation of holy things, and such kind people are also reading the thread as well. So, if you dont see any thing on this below, it is not surprising indeed: Freksy: https://www.nairaland.com/1237953/easter-celebration-biblical-it-pagan/5#15146387 . 1 Like |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by truthislight: 10:39am On Apr 09, 2013 |
ijawkid: What about the other of our friend nko? Ermmmm! zikk....? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 10:45am On Apr 09, 2013 |
Zikkyy:What have you seen, those customs as originating from the bible? Can you point out to us how any of them is related to the resurrection of Christ? There are numerous online sites that discusses the origin of various Easter customs you see today, of this you know. I intentionally restricted my online references to that provided by italo, to minimize argument. Can you please leave your comments under each of those references to enable others examine your counterclaims, and know who is telling the truth? Please note that your failure to see the truth regarding the origin of those aforementioned customs associated with Easter celebration today, does not mean others have not. 1 Like |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 10:55am On Apr 09, 2013 |
italo: JW made some attempt at creating their own calendar in time past. They had to drop it when it became obvious they will have to relocate to planet Jupiter to implement it  na over sabi dey worry them |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 11:33am On Apr 09, 2013 |
am truly disappointed  truthislight: This shows you don't read my posts. I don't even consider tithe as wrong! i do not condemn people for giving a tenth of their income to the church/pastor. what i condemn is the manner the tithe is preached. truthislight: you get it wrong again. why the false accusations? just because i don't agree with you on some issues? Besides i don't remember ever participating in any discussion on fornication. truthislight: Na your conscience dey worry you you know you are not telling the truth.truthislight: My advise; don't expect anything. there's bound to be differences in the way we view some issues. truthislight: Good for them. we don't have to adopt the same approach even if we have one goal, cos we are different and relies on our own interpretations. truthislight: Again you get it wrong. It is not about seeing anything wrong in freksy's post; my response to any post is usually based on the purpose or objective of the poster. He is trying to prove that easter is of pagan origin and to achieve this he provides evidence that trace easter bunny, egg & candy to pagan practice. he did not achieve his aim of proving the origin of easter because his post is not saying that easter egg, bunny e.t.c were incorporated into easter from the very day people started celebrating. If it came as add-on centuries later, how does that make easter of pagan origin. it is a totally different thing if he comes here and say the celebration of easter has been corrupted with pagan practice, then we can begin to look at that post as trying to support that line of argument. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 11:35am On Apr 09, 2013 |
truthislight: |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 12:14pm On Apr 09, 2013 |
Freksy: You are not saying anything. If your church group have something against Easter celebration, i expect you should be able to do your research and come up with your conclusions especially when your church did not provide info on how they arrived at such conclusion. Freksy: There are things i would consider before asking if these customs can be found in the bible. one is first asking the nature of people adopting these customs as part of their celebration. Are you going to consider a pagan that sacrifice a goat on Easter day to his god (e.g. sango), and prays to his god as celebrating Easter? Before you begin to condemn a practice first separate those actually performing that practice from those that uses the opportunity to do their own thing. Freksy: ..and you are afraid of posting facts from these sites? Freksy: what exactly are my counterclaims? no need me leaving comments on each of these references cos the references are not relevant to the discussion. Freksy: What truth? are we discussing origin of easter egg and bunny or we are discussing origin of Easter? if somebody decides to incorporate atilogwu dance in his celebration of the Lord's supper, that makes the Lord supper of pagan origin abi? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 3:55pm On Apr 09, 2013 |
Zikkyy:Your comment shows you did not read through my post from top to bottom. Has it occurred to you that i made, at least, four quotations, each with references before those online links? Are you saying not even one of them talks about the origin of the name "easter" in christianity? Like i told you before, your failure to see does not mean others do not. Leave your comments under each of those references, starting from The Catholic Encyclopedia (1913), Vol. V, p. 227. Zikkyy:You think it's not obvious who is afraid? What prevents you from commenting under each of those references you claim is not true and stop this 'circle dance'? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 6:50pm On Apr 09, 2013 |
Freksy: Oga freksy, please make up your mind! I don't like discussions without focus. What exactly is your issue with easter? is it the origin of the name "Easter"? or is it the origin of the celebration itself? my initial understanding was that we were discussing the origin of the easter celebration. wetin concern this discussion with the origin of the name "Easter"? that's a totally different topic sir. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 7:50pm On Apr 09, 2013 |
Freksy: You want me to leave comment under irrelevant references? well, if leaving comment will make you happy, find below my comments: Freksy: Okay some pagan customs ended up being part of easter celebrations. Is this reference telling us that the pagan customs listed above were part of the celebration at inception? No! is this evidence to proof that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? YES! Freksy: Okay people were hunting for colored easter eggs and it was not child's play. we don hear/read. Is the reference telling us that hunting for colored eggs was part of easter celebration at inception? No! Evidence that easter is of pagan origin? No! Discard? Yes Freksy: Okay, this one is saying that some Anglo-saxon guys migrated the Easter name to the Christian festival "designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ". "designed" being the keyword here. The Christian festival was "designed" to celebrate Jesus resurrection. All they moved was just the name. is this evidence to proof that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? YES! Freksy: Okay, the name easter is not a Christian name. no wahala. is this evidence to proof that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? SURE! Freksy: Hmmm. A quote from the book Jeremiah. Dem don begin celebrate easter that time? are you saying easter celebrant actually bake cakes for the goddess they call queen of heaven? How is this related to the celebration of Jesus resurrection? is this fact to prove that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? SURE! Freksy: Okay the hare has been a traditional symbol of Easter in Eurpoe and was a symbol of fertility in ancient Egypt. so how is this related to the celebration of Jesus resurrection? is this fact to prove that easter originated from pagan worship? No! We should discard? SURE! Freksy: Okay, some of easter customs are likely linked to pagan traditions. Your reference also says that egg decoration date back to 13th century. that's centuries after peeps started celebrating easter. Is the reference telling us that egg decoration was part of easter celebration at inception? No! Evidence that easter is of pagan origin? No! Discard? SURE! Freksy: Okay, the bible did not talk about rabbits delivering eggs to well-behaved children. so what is this telling us? Is the reference telling us that this custom was part of easter celebration at inception? No! Evidence that easter is of pagan origin? No! Discard? SURE! Freksy: Your reference is telling us easter candy started in the 1930s, can you also provide the date peeps started celebrating easter so we can compare? Is the reference telling us that this custom was part of easter celebration at inception? No! Evidence that easter is of pagan origin? No! Discard? SURE! Freksy: Parade date back to mid-1800s. okay we don hear Mr. Freksy, i hope you are happy now can we go back to discussing the origin of the easter celebration? or we can conclude that we don't know much about the origin. If you agree to this conclusion (meaning i don't expect to read you shouting that easter originated from paganism), maybe we can move on to discussiing the issue of the ADD-ONs you listed. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 8:54am On Apr 10, 2013 |
Zikkyy: We cannot discuss the origin of Easter celebration without the origin of the name, "Easter". The origin of the name 'Easter' is very crucial to knowing what the celebration is all about and how it got started. For example, if Easter is the name of a pagan goddess, an idol, that will simply tell you that Easter is the name of a pagan goddess, and thus, the celebration is in the name of an idol. After the above, we then begin to look at the origin of its customs. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 11:33am On Apr 10, 2013 |
Zikkyy: Freksy: Zikkyy: 1. Originally, easter was the festival of sping in honor of the goddess of spring. 2. In 8th century Christians named their festival supposedly designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ after a pagan goddess, an idol called "Easter". Summary: Easter festival originated from pagan. The celebration of christ's resurrection is named after a pagan goddess, an idol. [/quote] Freksy: Zikkyy: 1. Easter is the name of the queen of heaven, a pagan goddess, an idol........origin of the name. 2. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now...... Origin of some of its customs. Summary: Easter is the name of a pagan goddess, an idol, "the queen of the heaven." Some of the easter rites, as shown in 2 above are of pagan origin. Freksy: Zikkyy: Since Easter is the name of a goddess, the queen of heaven, are those making offerings and sacrifice of praises in her name different from the man at Jeremiah 7:18? God's anger was kindled against his people whenever they adopted these pagan customs. But those who adopted the pagan Easter festival were not interested in following the Bible. They Christianized the pagan cakes, so they thought, by marking a cross on the top of them, thus the hot cross buns. If someone, after a careful look at the above, says you are a proud idolater, how would you convincingly prove that you are not? Zikkyy: Far be it! Freksy is not happy with you, the reason is obvious. However, we can go back prior to the time your church fathers adopted an idol name for their christianized Passover supposedly designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ - a thing they were not told to do. The said celebration did not originate with the tag 'Easter' on its forehead, it was later adopted by your church Fathers. So we can talk about how it got started prior to the tag 'Easter' on it forehead. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 2:06pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
italo: Luke 24:41 "And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, “Do you have anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43 and he took it and ate it in their presence." italo: We celebrate the resurrection of Christ, just like the apostles did. The Encyclopædia Britannica comments: "There is no indication of the observance of the Easter festival in the New Testament, or in the writings of the apostolic Fathers. The sanctity of special times was an idea absent from the minds of the first Christians."—(1910), Vol. VIII, p. 828. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 2:56pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Freksy: I maintain that the origin of the name is not relevant to our discussion. The origin of the name can only be 'admitted' as evidence if that was the name given to the celebration at inception. If we change the name of the Lord's supper to 'sango' today, will that make the Lord's supper of pagan origin? i tell you forget the name unless we can use it to prove the origin, but this is not the case. it appears the celebration became known by that name centuries later. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 4:13pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Zikkyy: It will surely make the name to be of pagan origin, if 'sango' is pagan. Worst still, if 'sango' is the name of a goddess, an idol, be 100% sure that worshiping the almighty, a holy being, in the name of an idol, will be futile. I am sure you knew this. If there is such a change, many sincere worshipers of God who knows the implication of that will repudiate the change, and will not take part in worshiping God in the name of an idol. Are you thinking the pagan traditions in Easter celebration crept in by chance? By the time we trace the origin of christianized passover, now known as 'Easter celebration', a lot will be revealing to you. If you have anything about the origin of the celebration, post and let discuss. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 4:23pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Freksy: Naming does not equate to origin. we don't have enough facts for this. from information posted so far, it appears the name easter surfaced centuries after inception. Freksy: If Easter or eaostre is the name of a pagan goddess nkor, the goddess trademark the name abi? it's the same people that named the goddess eaostre that is also withdrawing that name and using it for another purpose? Anyways joke aside,i told you already so long as it was introduced centuries after inception, the so called pagan rites cannot qualify as evidence to prove origin. Freksy: There's not much difference between what you call pagan custom and custom of God's people (especially in the old testament you are quoting). I don't understand you sha! which one be christianization of cake again? are you saying you don't eat cake  i think you are taking this thing too far. haba!! Lets consider that bible verse again:"The children gather firewood, the men build fires, and the women mix dough to bake cakes for the goddess they call the Queen of Heaven. They also pour out offerings of wine to other gods, in order to hurt me." Jeremiah 7:18 The Goodnews Catholic Bible (GNTCE) If you take time to read the quote above, you will see that God is not angry that they gathered firewood, he is not angry that they build fires, he is not angry that they baked cakes, he is not angry that they poured out offerings of wine. The only thing annoying the Almighty is the fact that the actions were directed at other gods "in order to hurt God". the pagan activity in that bible quote is the worship of other gods. The theory that the use of any material is a sin because pagans used it cannot hold, unless the materials used is clearly forbidden by God. Freksy: Na wa ooh! it cannot be that bad na! Freksy: ...and they were also not told to avoid such celebrations. Christians are not robots. we have freedom to do everything good and pleasing to God, and God did not tell you he is not happy with the idea of people celebrating Jesus resurrection. the theory of "they were not told to do" cannot hold. If there is an embargo on celebration or rejoicing, i will understand. Freksy: Now you are talking. you are stepping up to my level now. make i give you ladder to climb up |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 4:36pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Freksy: You did not answer my question. will the name change make the 'celebration' of the Lord's supper of pagan origin? don't dodge na! haba! Freksy: I don't have facts, that's why you don't see me condemning anything here. i work with facts. The thing is the celebrants told you guys the basis for their celebration, i think you can only condemn them or call them liars if you have facts to prove otherwise. Freksy: But it was only the name that changed na! and the god of thunder did not trademark the name! that name probably mean something good in Chinese or Greek or Latin |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 4:41pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
ijawkid don run enter creek because of one small question i ask am you go answer that question anytime you surface for here o! |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 5:06pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Zikkyy: What I have learnt from your recent posts is that, it doesn't matter whether we are worshiping God in the name of an idol or not. Ok consider the bolded and and answer the following two questions. Also, check the meaning of the word 'originally' from your dictionary. "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ."—The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible (Philadelphia, 1944), by John D. Davis, page 145. Originally = with reference to the origin or beginning; before now. 1. What is the origin of Easter festival? Is it from pagan, YES or NO. In the book The Two Babylons, by Alexander Hislop, we read: "What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name, . . . as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is Ishtar. . . . Such is the history of Easter. The popular observances that still attend the period of its celebration amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now."—(New York, 1943), pp. 103, 107, 108; 2. Is Easter the name/title belonging to a goddess, an idol? YES or NO. When you answer the above two questions we will then look at how the dogma of celebrating Jesus' resurrection got started. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 6:11pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Freksy: Don't conclude yet. The issue of name is not something i have given serious consideration. my focus for now is on the origin of the celebration. Freksy: 'Originally' here as used here is saying that the term 'Easter' referred to the 'spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring'. The name was later used to describe the Christian festival designed to celebrate Jesus resurrection. Freksy: It depends, which Easter are you referring to? the celebration of Jesus resurrection or the spring festival? If you are referring to Jesus resurrection, i will say i don't know. if you referring to the spring festival, the question is not necessary. Freksy: It depends. the goddess did not trademark the name. you can modify your question by being a bit specific. For the Babylonians Easter may be referring to a goddess. BTW, you are yet to answer my question. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 6:15pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Zikkyy:The Lord's supper was divinely instituted, so nothing would change for those who would still observe it as was divinely given to them. There is no single sign of divine direction regarding Easter celebration, historically and scripturally.
And you continue to give God what you are not sure of. Your refusal to admit the fact that easter celebration is rooted in pagan/idol does not change it from being a fact. Anybody can refuse to accept anything. It's a matter of choice, as you said earlier. The name changed to what? Who inclined your church fathers on the same table with the pagans that leads to the adoption an idol's name, the Holy Spirit? 'Do not become partners with those who do not believe, for what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? And what mutual agreement does the temple of God have with idols?[/b] For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said, “I will live in them and will walk among them , and I will be their God , and they will be my people .” Therefore “ come out from their midst , and be separate ,” says the Lord, “ and touch no unclean thing , and I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters, says the All-Powerful Lord'[/b]. 2 Cor. 6:14-18 So you don't know that those pagan customs associated with Easter were also adopted. You have seen paganism written all over easter, and still claim there is no fact. Keep touching the unclean things! The quoted scripture is self-explanatory. |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Zikkyy(m): 6:44pm On Apr 10, 2013 |
Freksy: Good! What you stated here is that a name cannot 'paganize' a practice if that practice is acceptable to God. a practice is still pagan if it is not acceptable to God, even if you call it God's supper, it's still going to be pagan. You can see the issue of the name is not relevant in accessing the celebration of Jesus resurrection. So we can now drop the name origin issue and focus on the practice to determine if it's acceptable to God or not. Freksy: Why should i admit to something without evidence to support it. is that how you do your things? accept things based on hearsay? you are yet to provide proof that easter is rooted in pagan and you want me to just accept? no right thinking fellow will do that! i don't give God what am not sure of! meaning i don't give God the origin of easter celebration. If am to celebrate Jesus resurrection, i will render to God thanks, praises, prayers e.t.c that, am sure of. Freksy: i believe we have agreed that the name change cannot 'paganize' a practice, if the practice is acceptable to God, so we can move forward beyond the issue of name change, abi?  Freksy: I can see you are a bit confused. okay another question; if i add bunnies and egg to the Lord's supper will that make the Lord supper of pagan origin? |
| Re: Is Easter Celebration Biblical Or is it A Pagan way of Worship? by Freksy(m): 8:41am On Apr 11, 2013 |
Zikkyy: Freksy: Freksy:None of my comments, in any way, supports the conclusion you have chosen to arrive. To observe the Lord's supper the way it was divinely given means you observe it the way it was. My comment does not imply that every one would do it under an idol's name, hence the expression 'for those who would still ...' Observing it under an idol's name would make it a devotion to an idol. Again, note that 'Easter celebration' was adopted, not just the name, 'easter' as you think. When you transfer its name and transfer its traditions, tell me what is remaining. Not admitting does not mean you have not seen. Not seen does not mean they are not there for you to see. It does not also mean others may not see the facts and admit within themselves. 1. You have seen evidence that supports the fact that Easter festival originated from pagan. "Easter. Originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ."—The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible (Philadelphia, 1944), by John D. Davis, page 145. 2. You have seen evidence that supports the fact that Easter is celebrated in the name of an idol. 3. You have also seen evidence that supports the fact that many of its customs are of pagan origin. In the book The Two Babylons, by Alexander Hislop, whe read: "What means the term Easter itself? It is not a Christian name. It bears its Chaldean origin on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the queen of heaven, whose name, . . . as found by Layard on the Assyrian monuments, is Ishtar. . . . Such is the history of Easter. The popular observances that still attend the period of its celebration amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now."—New York, 1943), pp. 103, 107, 108 Rather you are giving him pagan celebration, named after their goddess, an idol. Have I ever told you I can render any sacred service to God, however insignificant it may seem, in the name of an idol? No true keeper of Jesus' commandment about the love of God would do that. I will still ask you again; who inclined the church fathers on the same table with the pagans for talks on christianization of paganism, the Holy Spirit? You think those pagan practices in easter celebration missed their way? NO! They know where they belong. "Do not become partners with those who do not believe, for what partnership is there between righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what agreement does Christ have with Beliar? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? And what mutual agreement does the temple of God have with idols? For we are the temple of the living God, just as God said, “I will live in them and will walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people .” Therefore “ come out from their midst , and be separate ,” says the Lord, “ and touch no unclean thing, and I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you will be my sons and daughters,” says the All-Powerful Lord". 2 Cor.6:14-18 Who partnered the two parties up for worship agreement that led to adoption of an idol celebration and its customs, Easter, which was "Originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre..." - The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible (Philadelphia, 1944), by John D. Davis, page 145. Confused? Lol 1. You don't realize that Easter festival never originated with Christian, but pagan. Therefore, tracing its origin will always take one to pagan. 2. You don't also realize that the popular observances were not originated with Christian, but pagans, therefore tracing their origin will always take one to pagan. The following quote says it all about the origin of it popular observances. "...The popular observances that still attend the period of its celebration amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character. The hot cross buns of Good Friday, and the dyed eggs of Pasch or Easter Sunday, figured in the Chaldean rites just as they do now."—(New York, 1943), pp. 103, 107, 108; In answer to your question, if the Lord's supper was originated with pagan, like Easter celebration, adding eggs and co to it 'will amply confirm the testimony of history as to its Babylonian character.' |
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