₦airaland Forum

toba:
Now let me ask u. Ileke idi of Nairaland got to see 2011 just like toba and everyone else. By whose grace did she see the new year? man or by a supernatural entity?

Who brought up this old fray between Image and 5Solas?

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=577829.msg7478767#msg7478767 date=1294372483]Very true.

I did. . . . I see no flaw in his reply.[/quote]Neither do I. It is completely endorsed, as against bringing man's acts into the issue.

Jenwitemi:
Okay, then. If that makes you feel good and cosy. We all die sha, whether "believer" or "unbeliever". All i know be say Mr. Death no dey discriminate when the time comes.

Well put. We should all make sure we've made our peace with God.

Jenwitemi:
Or his time may just have expired. His time was up, just like any other dead person. I can assure you that "believers" drop dead all the time, just like every other dead "unbelievers".

Well, not exactly as you put it. Precious (important and no light matter) in the sight of the Lord is the death of His saints (His loving ones)Ps116:15.

Image123:
The believer who died last year in an accident may have frustrated the grace of God if it wasn't God's plan for him to die last year. He may have been warned, he may have been careless. God forgives sin, not too sure if He forgives carelessness same way.

To tell you the truth, no one dies before their times. There is a set time for everyone.

Well, this is a hard saying !

Image123:
Uncle mi, the question is on the lines 'why did you see the new year?' answer is most definitely by God's grace. But we must not forget those who are able to frustrate that grace and go 'before their time', contrary to God's plans.

Are we to assume therefore that the believer who died last year in an accident (if they were any), frustrated God's grace?
Were they worse sinners than us who are alive?

Image123:
5Solas
You don come again o, happy new year sha. But don't try sleeping across the third mainland bridge lagos sha, that grace will deny you sharp sharp.lol. We're not God's zombies but partners together with Him.

Happy New Year, Image.
The gospel is of His Grace, not of the works of man. Let's keep preaching that. How else can one answer the fourth part of the OP's post?

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=577829.msg7445942#msg7445942 date=1293916755]God's grace?

Allah's grace?

Or by your own actions. . . .?

Why did you get to see year 2011 and the other person didnt?[/quote]And did you notice Toba's submission?

Quote from : Ileke-IdI on January 01, 2011, 10:19 PM
God's grace?
Allah's grace?
Or by your own actions. . . .?
Why did you get to see year 2011 and the other person didnt?



I saw 2011 by God's grace and that alone.
My 'freewill' has always been lame and could have done nothing in the face of so many accidents last year , particularly in december.
Like John Newton (Amazing Grace), I sing, ''Tis grace hath bro't me safe thus far, And grace will lead me home'.

cogicero:
^^^

look to the top of this page

Thanks a lot for your timely reply, I just voted.

manmustwac:
^^toba did not win enough votes to make the last four.

Who are the last four, and where can I view them, please?

What's the latest on this? No winner?

Why do you have such a high 'credit load' on your wife not snoring? There are far more weightier issues. On the average I think the likelihood of

your marrying a wife who snores is less than 10%, but with the way you are going about this, it might just be a 100%!

Hi BigBashiru, it's been quite sometime. Welcome back!

To the point, if one ignores the context of the verses and the whole tenor of scripture, one will naturally come to your conclusion, which I think is wrong. I believe Okeyxyz hit the nail on the head.

If you were drawing this distinction between believers and unbelievers (the elects and non-elects), I will be behind you and help you roll out the verses .

Viaro and Olaadegbu.

Amen! Amen!! Amen!!! Very interesting , instructive and illuminating testimonies .

Try these pages for starters :
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/hall.htm and http://www.spurgeon.org/mainpage.htm.

Very nice and enlightening thread. Unfortunately, the devil has been very sucessful with his schemes. We, as believers, need to spend more time with our Lord.

OLAADEGBU:
Maybe you're wrong? Wouldn't it be wise to find out the truth regarding your claims instead of speculating and assuming what you know little or nothing about?

Joagbaje is right.Some churches have different columns for males and females. This is particularly true of a Deeper Life Bible Church I visited some years ago.

it comes from passages as this:

''You know how full of love and kindness our Lord Jesus was : though he was so very rich , yet to help you he became so very poor , so that by being poor he could make you rich .'' 2Cor. 8:9, TLB.

what a thread!

Quite hilarious. When I want to giggle again, I will be back.

Sharing Reformed Christian Resources Around The World 
IS ARMINIANISM A DIFFERENT GOSPEL? 
Rev. E. Kampen 

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Rev. Kampen is pastor of Willoughby Heights Canadian Reformed Church, Langley, B.C., Canada

 

           The seriousness and extent of Arminian thinking can be a point of contention at times.  It is not unheard of that in Reformed circles critical comments about Arminianism are met with blank stares, a degree of indifference, or even a degree of hostility.  The hostility may arise as it is felt that the criticism is unjust, extreme, inaccurate, or, even if it is correct, unnecessary as despite the differences those holding to Arminian theology are still Christians.

           In recent reading I came across some remarks concerning Arminianism which showed both the seriousness and extent of Arminian thinking and how it is incompatible with the Reformed faith which, after all, is the Scriptural faith.  In essence, in Arminianism we have a different gospel (see 2 Cor. 11:4;  Gal. 1:6-, a gospel which denies salvation is the complete gift of the sovereign God who graciously justifies sinners through faith alone.

Just to refresh your memory,  Arminian thinking, so soundly renounced in the Canons of Dort, denies God's sovereign eternal election unto salvation.  While affirming God's grace, Arminianism claims that God merely offers salvation and it is up to man who decides to accept or reject the gospel.  One author summed up Arminian thinking as follows,", God was made dependent on free-will-equipped-men for whom He politely had to wait, looking to see whether the man would be so kind as to believe"(1).

           Though the Reformers of the early 16th Century did not have to contend with Arminianism as such, since Arminianism arose late in the 16th century and early in the 17th century,  they did have to contend with its theological cousin, Semi-Pelagianism.  Semi-Pelagianism teaches that man is spiritually sick.  As such he does need the help of God's grace in order to get better.  However, it is up to man to take the spiritual medicine which God offers.  God must have man's co-operation.  In theological terms this was called "synergism". You can see the similarity to the Arminian position.   The Reformers responded to this by stressing the sovereign grace of God, as heard in the cry "Sola gratia". God calls those dead in sin to new life (see Eph. 2:1-10).  The Reformers stressed the helplessness of man in sin and the sovereignty of God in grace.  This was a point of unity between the Reformers despite differences about other issues. (2) In the Book "The Bondage of the Will"  this was the point that Luther argued with Erasmus.

           We should note then that Arminianism is a reincarnation of Semi-Pelagianism with its emphasis on man's freedom.  This explains why the churches acted so resolutely with respect to Arminianism.  They saw it as a serious threat to the gospel and condemned it "as being in principle a return to Rome (because in effect it turned faith into a meritorious work) and a betrayal of the Reformation (because it denied the sovereignty of God in saving sinners, which was the deepest religious and theological principle of the Reformer's thought). Arminianism was,indeed,  in Reformed eyes a renunciation of New Testament Christianity in favour of New Testament Judaism; for to rely on oneself for faith is no different in principle from relying on oneself for works, and the one is as unchristian and anti-Christian as the other."(3)

           The Reformed faith thus teaches the helplessness of man in salvation.  Arminianism, in typical Semi-Pelagian style, teaches self-help religion.  It is sovereign God versus sovereign man.  It is indeed the different gospel which Paul warned about.  It is appealing because it extols the dignity of man.  It is a lie because man is dead in sin, totally helpless.

While the aforementioned points show the seriousness of the Arminian teaching and how it stands in contrast to true Reformation theology, to what extent is it found today?  One author stated that "Arminianism ,  has had American evangelicalism in a stranglehold since the days of Charles Finney."(4)  Charles Finney (1792-1875) was a revivalist preacher who was very influential with his revival techniques. Another author states that 86 percent of American evangelicals hold to the Arminian position as comes out in their agreement with the phrase, "God helps those who help themselves." (5)This comes out very clearly in the writings of the well known Billy Graham who has even written a religious self-help manual titled "How To be Born Again" in which the various steps to salvation are clearly spelled out.(6)

           The apostle Paul  fought with great vigour against the "different gospel".  In that gospel they will speak of Christ and use words like grace, election, faith, regeneration, etc.  Yet, it is not the gospel of sovereign grace received through faith but of grace received on the ground of one's faith.  The earlier mentioned reference linking Rome and Arminianism is worth drawing to your attention again. Actually,there is a common denominator in all false religion in that it ascribes ability and free will to man by which he can effect his own salvation if he so wishes.  It displays the arrogance of sinful man,even more so when he dresses lies with words of the gospel.  That makes the enemy all the more difficult to detect as he works in his subtle way.  We can all the more understand Paul's warning about Satan disguising himself as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14).

           Personally I don't enjoy having to harp on the point of the Arminian danger.  I fear, however, that it is necessary because it is not realized how serious and extensive a threat it is.  The true church glories in the gospel of sovereign grace where God rescues dead sinners and grants them the righteousness of Christ through faith.  Let me conclude quoting in full Paul's words in Gal. 1:6-9,
 

  I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called youin the grace of Christ and turning to a different gospel --not that there is another gospel, but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.  But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.  As we have said before, so now I say again, If any one is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed.


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1. K. Schilder, Extra-Scriptural Binding -  A New Danger (In AmericanSecession Theologians on Covenant and Baptism & Extra-Scriptural Binding). (Neerlandia:  Inheritance Publications, 1996.  p. 131.)

   2. J.I. Packer and O.R. Johnston, "Historical and Theological Introduction," in Martin Luther, The Bondage of the Will, trans. J.I. Packer and O.R. Johnston (Cambridge: James Clarke/Westwood, N.J.: Revell,1957, pp. 57-58)

   3. Ibid. p. 59

   4. R.C. Sproul, Grace Unknown.  (Grand Rapids:  Baker Books, 1997)  p.180

   5. M. Horton, In the Face of God.  (Word Publishing, 1996)  Appendix CURE (Christians United for Reformation).

   6. To give just two examples, Graham writes "The context of John 3 teaches that the new birth is something that God does for man when man is willing to yield to God", and "He gives the Holy Spirit to draw you to the cross, but even after all this, it is your decision whether to accept God's free pardon or to continue in your lost condition."   (B. Graham, How To Be Born Again.  Originally published 1977.  Quoted from  the 1989 edition by Word Publishers, pages 150, 162)


  http://spindleworks.com/library/kampen/arminianism.htm

vescucci:
A genuine, honest to God looney.

@Ttalks

I had been thinking of you since I started commenting on this thread. Your thread on freewill is awesome.

@All

I had remarked that  we should strive to avoid the errors of the Pelegians and Antinomians. Obviously this advise was as nothing to quite a lot of persons.
And what I have seen are these persons tackling Antinomianism that wasn't there.
All that was called for was for them to show what role works had to play in the justification of the sinner. Joagbaje had asked that. I have asked that. We are still waiting.

@Aletheai

Indeed you have always said works are the fruits of faith.

But can faith alone justify/save a person?

What does The Bible say in the books of Romans and Galatians?

Do the 'works of righteousness' contribute to our justification? What are 'works of righteousness' in the first place?

@Nuclearboy

You have not answered my question at all. My question remains,'what are works of righteousness?'. An explanation at least was called for. While I am still waiting for it , let me assure that I have responded to that passage at least three times and hence I am conversant with what you are saying.

@Nuclearboy

I am sure you can do better than that. The Bible says we are not saved by the 'works of righteousness' you have just referred to(Ti 3:5). Next 'works of righteousness', please.

@Image

No name calling,please. No one is denying the need for good works. Welcome back.

Hope to get your answer to my quetion above soon.

@Nuclearboy

What are, 'works of righteousness'?

@Chukwudi44

I believe you are merely chasing shadows. Leave the works that follow justification/salvation for now. What are, 'works of righteousness'.