₦airaland Forum

BroOptimist:
Sorry op, the Bible(s) is/are NOT complete at all. Even those professors in Theology are very much aware of the fact. Anyway, if you need biblical proofs or evidence, I'm ready to give you. Good morning!

We do need biblical proofs or evidence.
Please give.

shadeyinka2:
Like I said: it is contradictory to say "we don't know" and yet we also claim "we know".

I disagree. I after all know that I am very limited in my knowledge so can safely say, "I know that I don't know. I would even claim humility makes me say so of myself but that would be arrogant of me.

In China, we say, the person at the bottom of a hill does not see the view from the top of the hill. One must consider if one does not know but is claiming to know, which is what's more common here.

Ola17:
Do you know what a telescope is?
Look into the heavens on a clear night with the aid of a telescope. A lot of your questions will be answered.

I looked. It's still flat, and round, exactly like a plate. In fact, if your telescope is strong enough you'd see the swiss cheese on the plate!

I took a picture of it with my telescopecamera. You can clearly see what they lied were craters.

Good riddance!

The regulator, Rwanda Utilities Regulatory Authority (RURA) in April last year withdrew the radio station's license after Schoof failed to comply with sanctions that arose from a controversial sermon that was aired on the station that denigrated women.

The sermon, in which a presenter on the radio and evangelist Nicolas Niyibikora, denigrated women referring to them as evil, was aired on January 29, 2018.

The sermon was condemned by human rights organisations, including several associations that promote women empowerment.

newsynews:
Paul was not making a clear statement when he said "can faith save him?".

P.s. And a correction.

It was James the Works Guru who asked if faith can save, and not Paul in James 2:14-26 King James Version (KJV). But my "Paul the Works Boaster" still stands.

shadeyinka2:
Now, an atheist come to say "we can't know our mums " because there is no evidence that our mum is such.

And this is the point where they accuse you of strawman and being illogical, because no atheists says anything of the sort, since it's untrue, and they are more likely to say you have no mum if anything.

The theist argument goes something like this.

"Everyone alive has a mother (first cause). I am alive, and not, I have a mother, but some random woman on the street is my mother so, atheist, believe it, and if you don't you will burn in the hell my mother created!" I hope that sounds absurd to you. No dna, no birth witness, no signs of recognition by said mother, no confirmation by father. Just believe or you'd burn in hell. And to make it worse, the theist does not exactly know that the random woman is the mother neither. They just believe she is. And then they claim belief is knowledge, which anyone with an ounce of knowledge of epistemology and proper use of words would tell you is nonsense, since beliefs are not exactly knowledge. Can you then wonder that atheists laugh at theists?

In fact, intelligent theists should laugh at such theists too, for creating an image to prove God exists. Images based on human ideas at that. But Christians are actually worse and more absurd, for they are not exactly trying to prove God exist, but that their one book is the holiest of books written by God and published in the heavenly printing press by angels and is the whole and only truth, a fact anyone who bothers with some history can easily debunk.

Fact is, atheists do not claim things there is sufficient evidence for do not exist, even though it may sound that way to you. To the atheist, God does not exist, or they have seen no evidence for God or a first causer, and most arguments for it are just plain ridiculous and absurd if objectively considered, as in, without the subjective bias of faith or whatever it takes. The atheist wants dna, they want birth witnesses, signs of recognition and confirmation but are offered the Word instead, the Word they know were written by mere human beings which it is until one breathes onto it and it dwells in one.

Do note that I fault the theist in atheist-theist arguments. Most theists just make up stuff and lie that it is knowledge that they have. And this is obvious by their sheer ignorance of the Word of the God they claim to defend. For the only evidence a Christian has for the existence of God is their very own fruits as fertilized by God, and their own light that burns God's oil and which they should let shine to glorify the Father in heaven, except most of us are fruitless and our lights so filled with satan oil and so dim that even satan would deny us if not that it were to satan's delight that we are so ignorant and in the dark.

newsynews:
Paul was not making a clear statement when he said "can faith save him?". He was simply asking a question. The answer to the question of if faith can save a man. is seen in his epistle to the Ephesians. He simply stated that faith saves through grace without works.

Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

First let me state that "one does not live by one verse alone least one becomes malnourished".

We had a thread on something similar some time ago when some were justifying themselves by their faith and God's Grace. I'll post links to said threads at the end, but meanwhile, note that last paragraph. "Not of works, lest any man should boast". Its from Paul the works boaster (c.f. https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Paul~s-Boasting)

And he's not saying works do not matter, since you must deny yourself (work!) and take up your cross (work!) and follow Christ (work!). But lets look around us and at our own selves a minute. Can I be saved if I do no work, the least of which is "believe"? Or is believing itself not work?

Christians like to say Christianity is a way of life, and not a religion. Scripture itself is a lot of doing with so much work and few labourers. The Laws of God boil down to loving my neighbours, which is work, and loving my enemies even moreso which is more work, and if I do not do these works, am I not only a resounding gong and a clanging cymbal, a nothing who gains nothing?

The fact is that works do matter. Scripture itself is a "Works Manual" and specific works are the evidence of salvation, the fruits one sows, and anyone who sows not shall reap not, not even salvation. Such need Christ in their life or they will surely die of nothing else but starvation brought on by being lazy.

Please consider that Paul means "don't boast" , and not "works don't matter", because if he had not done the immense work he did, being responsible for over about ⅔ of the New Testament, and if Christ had not done the work he did dying for me, and if God too had not worked and created me in the first place, Christianity itself would be but a shadow of what it is today and I would not exist not to talk of be saved.

Below are some links to my view on the subject:

https://www.nairaland.com/5211669/saved-grace-alone-filthy-doctrine/2#80303593

https://www.nairaland.com/5211669/saved-grace-alone-filthy-doctrine/3#80323778

https://www.nairaland.com/5315834/saved-faith-alone-need-works#80558671

shadeyinka2:
Those of us who know God at an experiencial level know that God is a Spirit and that the spiritual realm exists. This knowledge/position cannot be denied especially in the face of several gaps within scientific knowledge. So that, it may be ok for an atheist to say "I do not know" but for a Christian, the claim of I do not know would either be a statement of untruth or a blatant deception.

I do not come to the knowledge of God through Science and my knowledge of God (which is the truth) biases me to fill in the gaps with what I already know as true until proven otherwise.

So, can I truthfully say I do not know? No!
Can I say I understand the science of how God made everything? No!

But the gaps within our present Scientific knowledge is massive. We can't even conclusively say whether the universe is open or closed, isolated or not. We hold on to some assumptions as if it is the complete truth and build empires of knowledge on them as if they are the basic truth eg. the Gravitational singleton etc.

How can Science discover if we have another dimension other than that of Energy, Space and time when we have completely shut our mind to its possibility?

No one is asking you to say you don't know what you know. But I can't understand why you would ask those who say they don't know to know or believe what they've told you they don't know nor have evidence for, and asking people to fill their ignorance with a belief is just silly.

If you can't provide evidence for "another dimension", there's absolutely no point claiming one exists, but if you do, then someone else can equally claim multiple dimensions and you should not be arguing against it unless you have some motive you need to justify or evidence to prove they don't exist, but such proof would likely invalidate the existence of your one dimension too so I can't say I see the gain.

It is one thing disputing scientific knowledge and quite another to try using science to prove the existence of God. You'd have a problem where the two conflict and might find yourself arguing for a 6000 year flat earth, not to justify God's existence, as you might think or intend, but to validate your own belief in Scripture.

Have you considered that perhaps you are blessed with an ability to know that is lacking in others? If you did, I think you might be tempted to say, "thank you Lord that I am not like that atheist over there", though just being grateful for an ability you have been given without the hubris should suffice.

God is a Spirit, I am told, so one can't expect those who are spiritually blind to see what the spiritually unblind see, and asking them to is like telling blind people to believe they see when you have not first cured their blindness, or telling people to pay you their tithes so they can be blessed. It might work with those who know no better but one would have to really wonder what your gain is.

I got to add that I often find the Christian claim to know to be false, especially those who take their knowing from Scripture. I'm sure you'd tell me how ignorant I am if I claim I get my history of Nigeria from Scripture. And some will say the same if one claims to get ones science from Scripture.

Ola17:
Let me assume you aren’t trolling

That would be like standing upside down.

The Earth is flat! I insist!!

Ihedinobi3:
You don't need my approval or consent to worship the universe, budaatum. By all means, do if you want. Don't let me or human imagination stop you.

No one is worshipping the universe Ihe.

shadeyinka2:
"I don't know...!"
is an option if it would not be with ended with
" but I know...!"

How are we sure we don't live in a universe of a higher dimension than the 3D or the trio of Energy, Space and Time?

We might not be sure we don't live in a "higher dimension than the 3D or the trio of Energy, Space and Time", but why claim we do if there's no evidence to support we might? And why not just believe we live in a lower dimension of earth, water, fire and air instead, and that the earth is actually flat?

shadeyinka2:
I think you have to state your own beliefs (Logical and Scientific) about your perceived relation between the Uncaused First Cause, Entropy of the Universe/thermodynamics, infinite regress of cause and effect etc.

I don't do "beliefs". The devil believes and shudders so I don't see it as a good thing to emulate. I admit my ignorance when I don't know instead of claiming my beliefs are actual knowledge, which they aren't, because if they were knowledge, I would not believe it but would know it instead.

Examples are, I do not believe my mother is my mother because I know my mother is my mother.

I do not believe I have a million pounds in my bank account because when I checked I found much less than that there.

shadeyinka2:
I hate a situation where an atheist is willing to hide under "we don't know what is outside our universe" AND yet still be come out to assert that " whatever is outside the universe CANNOT be God"! If you don't know, how do you then know?

If I don't know, I don't know, and would only be showing how ignorant I am if I fill my ignorant gap with God. And if I do that, everytime I mention my God, the atheist hears "I don't know", even when I argue that God is actually my knowing, though I'm likely to claim it is a belief, which amounts to the same thing.

Besides, Jesus warned me not to be wasting my time on things I see not, for "inasmuch as I have done for those things that I do see, my Father in heaven is pleased". But most especially, in trying to show atheists that my God exists, I am forced to present them with an image of my God, and we all know how God feels about images.

One should not allow oneself to be led into temptation, I say.

EMILO2STAY:
your not making sense

Some would say the same of your thread here! Or don't you know those Freemasons are very deceptive?

We must band together to fight this ignorance and stop Trump stealing the sun from Japan who have diligently ensured it rises everyday. If America get their hands on it it will only rise in America on selected days as Americans don't seem as conscientious as the diligent Japanese are.

EMILO2STAY:
pls this is not needed here

Really? Why?

OLAADEGBU:
As long as you don't tell me that the monkey is your ancestor and that we should be thankful to mother earth.

That is your line. Monkeys don't go to school.

shadeyinka2:
Which one should we believe?

One does not have to believe or disbelieve!

"I don't quite know", is always a third option.

OLAADEGBU:
The earth is not your mother neither are the monkeys your neighbours.

The fact that they are God's creations is good enough for me.

EMILO2STAY:
you do not understand the degree in which we have been lie to, there is no space, the sun and the moon are local, within the earths atmosphere.

Don't mind them! They don't know that the sun rises everyday in Japan, the Land of the rising Sun, where millions of Japanese work through the night piling wood on a fire to make it burn. America knew this was the source of ultimate world power so they dropped atomic bombs on them in an attempt to steal the sun, but they unfortunately failed.

They will try again, in Trump's second term!

viyon02:
do we need to debate over this matter, pictures and research works on space did not indicate the earth is not sphere.

We obviously still need to debate this matter since some people are wrongly convinced the earth is not flat. If only they would walk to the edge of the flat earth and fall off, then we might be able to stop.

While we are at it, the moon is also flat and made of Swiss cheese.

shadeyinka2:
The universe may be open and yet isolated. If the universe is isolated, then the law of entropy still holds true.

The universe may rest on top of a tortoise too but with no evidence to support it I just can't see why one should be compelled to believe it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oExhDdxOpbA

OLAADEGBU:
Care about your soul before caring about the planet earth.

"Love your neighbour and your enemies even more", said the Lord, and not, "be selfish and save yourself".

johnydon22:

What? You want to claim all those climate change protesters are not atheists? Do you not see atheist painted on their foreheads?

Go on Deg. Point them out to us so we too can see that only atheists care about planet earth.

Ihedinobi3:
This might interest you:

https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/what-is-dark-energy

I wouldn't say that the universe is an isolated system. Theologically, it cannot be. Scientifically, the observation suggests that it is not. Logically, if something is increasing in some way, then something is being added to it by something outside of it. Finally, it only makes sense that a thing has boundaries if it is expanding, since expansion assumes the existence of limits that are being violated to establish new ones.

I think the perceived boundaries and limits of the universe are due to human imaginations. Seems in science and theology we are good at it too.

Why limit or put boundaries around either when the truth is our minds can't quite measure either? Can't the universe be as boundless and limitless as the God who supposedly created it?

Title of thread is The Paranoia Of Christianity. Pity you prove them right.

OLAADEGBU:
"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because He hath appointed a day, in the which He will judge the world in righteousness by that Man whom He hath ordained; whereof He hath given assurance unto all men, in that He hath raised Him from the dead" (Acts 17:30-31).

shadeyinka2:
Nairaland's spam bots have banned me for no just cause. My second Monika is activated.


I didn't say the universe was bounded.

I said:


I believe the universe is open (expands forever) , isolated (no energy is entering or leaving the system) and unbounded (unconstrained by any external force).

The fact that I said the universe extends from +infinity to -infinity does not imply that it is closed or bounded.

Are we totally sure of this? No!
But such boundaries of the universe has not be detected nor is there evidence that the energy of the universe is increasing or decreasing.
As scientists, we can only go with what has been observed or inferred from even incomplete data.

This is more true now for people who desbelieve in God because no evidence to such has been seen.

You mentioned "entropy" which only applys in a closed system, one with defined boundaries.

Scientists, by the best of my knowledge, do not go by incomplete data. Neither is "belief" scientific. Scientists may speculate, but they don't expect anyone to run off and claim their speculation on incomplete data is the truth.

OLAADEGBU:
Repent of the sin of idolatry before its too late.

Repent of the sin of ignorance before its too late.

God does not like people lacking knowledge. That's why he sent Jesus to educate you.

Has Senator Godswill Akpabio been prosecuted?

Case number please and court decision!

OLAADEGBU:
You are guilty of creating another god which the Bible calls idolatry.

Was it not you who said:

OLAADEGBU:
2 + 2 = God.

Maybe next time, engage brain before mouth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LGmz9EYTNY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSmFhOCOKvQ


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbDiPlO9eFc

OLAADEGBU:
2 + 2 = God.

OLAADEGBU:
The King of kings and Lord of lords.

I think I got it! Or rather, Eureka!

2 Kings + 2 Lords = 4 = God

We shall call it the 'OLAADEGBU Theory of God'.

Always figured the Trinity would one day become a Quaternity.