₦airaland Forum

essenceplus:
Don't mind them sister bukky

Hahahahahahaha

Thank you brother essenceplus.

doitforyou:
There is nothing wrong with that!!!!! that is the point of all our mentions to you, because you don't like something doesn't mean you shouldn't give others space to enjoy it if they like it. She doesn't have to want one to respect the choice of her friend getting one. it's just simple!

Hmmmm mm!

There is a difference between overlooking a tattoo and flattering the wearer.

The former is letting people be, the latter is encouraging people to do what you wouldn't or consider wrong.

desvi:
it's run by men

And women are so light brained to resist?

Where the women forced to act or join?

Omo, it is real hustle.

Men might have built it to satisfy men however the women are willing participants.

desvi:
I find your demeanor on the whole very disrespectful
but I am sure you choose to be provocative so it shouldn't surprise you

My demeanor disrespectful?

I didn't write the OP even though I agree very much with it.

That women should pick good husband? Disrespectful?

That women should be decent, ladylike and have decorum disrespectful?

doitforyou:
All these hypothetical questions mean nothing. My brother is a grown man, I would hope he would have sense to make decisions that are best for him. This world is huuuggee! for every woman that sleeps around there are 10 more that want to wait till their wedding night. We are not going to force women to be what they are not because you don't want to 'taint' the pool when my brother is about to get married. A former prostitute can be a faithful wife while a woman that was a virgin on her wedding night can be an unfaithful wife.

Interesting.

He would have sense to make the best decision for himself aka marry a better girl.

Also interesting you think for every girl who decides to sleep around, ten are willing to wait till their wedding night.

A part of you wish your brother picks from that pool right?

desvi:
off point
why don't you open a thread for a change where you can preach to your brothers?
majority of women here disagree with you and after your "I encourage rape" thread, the ship has left the harbor where you stood a chance to make a difference
and nobody buys into your "I want to save society" narrative
on NL?

How can I preach to my brothers when I am a sister?

My dear, I have never cared about the agreement or disagreement of a cactus here or in my life.

I am a very objective person and states it as it is. If you go through my posts and thread, you would know that I am NOT a politically correct person.

I would also not give an advise that I can not follow because I am a woman of my words and everywhere I go/am is a projection of who I am in part.

Funny thing is that one or two women would come in, read and pick whatever they want to and that's fine with me.

Even Jesus Christ who shed His blood did not save everyone.

@ I encourage rape: is that's what you got from the thread, then good for you.

KanwuliaExtra:
Sure. It should be a private discussion, away from the “prim and proper”! Totally agree.
But, should they be used as examples mysoginistic outlets and subjectified as “deviants”?

I have no idea about any misogynistic outlets.

They would not even come near me.

Omoluabi16:
There will always be standards. There will always be rules and acceptable/non-acceptable behaviour. This change and civilization we go on about is just excuse to lose our self control. Like crack house said, why the negatives and not the positives?
If a woman acts slutty and is being slut-shamed why does she seek acceptance or do the 'don't judge me' thing when the right thing to do is to stop being slutty! Same way Criminal yahoo boys are seeking justification. How many Nigerians defended Mr Naira Marley? Isn't bobrisky celebrated?
Perilous times.

Very.

desvi:
first off, what you consider classy is for sure not what everyone else considers classy
I for myself find your obsession with sex on public display, pardon me, somehow repulsive on many different levels
but I am sure you think of yourself as classy

secondly, if every lady was the same, it would be boring, not bad but boring

@Secondly, reminds me of the proverb I quoted in a post.

My obsession with sex on public display is repulsive while those loud about it are not?

doitforyou:
yes she is!! But she is a sly one.

Another one again.

Sly misogynist.

Thanks

KanwuliaExtra:
Yeah, sometimes.
Other times, no.

I pointed out one of your threads that was deleted. I saw it and NEVER bothered to click on it. Even when others were appealing to you that it was offensive, you still stuck to your guns. Till it was finally deleted.

This thread is another one on a less offensive note.

Let me tell you about you and “some” of YOUR THREADS.

In a nutshell, you are a closet mysoginist.

E.O.D!

Hahahaha

My titles are growing

Feminist, anti-feminist, misogynist, fanatic, Feminazi, divorce advocate etc.

Some things might be offensive yet objective.

For instance, if you warn a girl to be careful whom she opens her legs for because she bears the burden of pregnancy, it is offensive yet objective.

I love women and would expect them to be willing to face the consequences of their actions.

When they do not like the consequences of their actions, I am all for going back to the drawing board. Let's see what was obtainable before and tweak it to work today.

That has actually been the driving force of most of my threads.

The society outside is different from Nairaland.

sassysure:
Tell them my dear.
It was worst then.
Husbands will take official concubines. They call the courtesans. Wives will stay at home breeding, cooking and sowing clothes while courtesans, today's side chick will be at the court with the men learning the art of war, politics, literatures and what have you. Men go to their wives if they want to breed but when they need pleasure from the opposite sex, they go to these ladies.
Infact, mothers train their daughters to be official prostitutes. The men lavish these ladies with everything they can't give their wives yet now women have finally found their footing, they have become immoral and lost their charm abi mystique

Okay o.

Leave marriage out of the discussion, it is a different space.

desvi:
the porn industry is male dominated but you decided to pick on the females
typical

Porn industry is male dominated how?

Are the women forced to participate?

Everyone tangles for people's entertainment while they make their cool cash.

desvi:
see, this is why people do not listen to you but feel offended
you are disrespectful
you are not above women
you don't get to tell them anything
stop being so damn patronizing
you are not talking to your kids here

You find the statement that every woman must strive to marry good men disrespectful?

Interesting.

doitforyou:
You are still missing the point no one is encouraging people to do anything. You have to understand that people are different, my morals are not your morals, what you and the writer are doing is imposing your own morals on others. I wouldn't bash a woman that is sleeping around even though that is not my MO because 1. It is not my business 2. She can do whatever she wants, that is not encouraging. Previously set morals was set by men, women now no longer want any part of that and just want to live their lives. However, you are free to still uphold those values and morals no one is stopping you don't just expect other women to join you.

I wasn't even thinking of sex.

I remember a discussion about tattoos with some friends. One said a guy's tattoo was nice and she liked it. When we told her to tell hubby to get it, she instinctively went 'God forbid, her husband or kids would never have tattoos.'

Like we say in Yoruba: were dun wo, ko she bi lomo.... A mad person's display is sweet/fun to watch however no one wants to have a mad child.

Like the Whites say: Imitation is the best form of flattery.

On another note, I find it funny that women who previously confide in each other about their sexcaspades would use same thing to insult them when all goes south.

desvi:
do you know what I find interesting?
in all the discussions about morals, it centers around women's séxuality
why?

Because that is the only space 'a woman can do what she wills' hold water.

Everyone other vice/moral debate is a crime.

Ishilove:
I completely agree with you. I look at the world today and feel fear coursing through my heart at the thought that i will have to raise my children in a society where restraint, modesty amd morality are on the verge of extinction. I also seriously wonder what happened. How did we come to this sorry state?

Social Media.

Prior to now, everyone was crazy in their space. Reference Sodom&Gomorrah, Noah's time etc.

The Bible even talked about homosexuality and wild/sin parties.

SM made everyone crazy in public.

With training and prayers, all will be well.

desvi:
but you don't get to decide for them
thank God

It is bad for every lady to aim to be classy?

KanwuliaExtra:
Ok, my misunderstanding then.
Please, explain what “the mystique of feminism abi na femininity” means, so we do not lose it entirely.

I frankly do not understand what the author meant.

Stoop so low. . . ? How? By whose standards?

Interesting that you only felt put off by the contents of their discussion(chopping a HUGE DIIICCK after a good binging party ) ? I found it quite entertaining and HILARIOUS!

I was only irritated they were being loud in a movie theater, where people PAID to have some peace and quiet. I don’t give a ratzzzmatazzzzz what they were discussing. Knowing just “a little” about moi on or offline, . . . . I have done and acted worse EVEN WITHOUT A DROP OF ALCHHOL or a ANY form of DRUG! I still dey kamkpeeee for MY HOUSE with husband and all. Amen!!!!

So, do you and Debra McLeod claim some ethical or moral superiority over them, simply because they discussed your “taboos of social decorum or broke your rules of public etiquette” in a public place?


*btw, there is nothing that needs to be coded when talking about vaginas and penisees or getting a “real hump” in the real world. the women like those ladies in the article love to keep it real with their binges and orgies. no pretense necessary. my kind of women and men. if you don’t like them, leave them alone. they finally left the theatre right? no need to use others as examples for not meeting the “ holy standards of st. debra mcleod. . . . just saying, it is ok to phock, let phock and talk about it. i find such traits in men or women very refreshing from the perspectives of “sanctimonious prudes and emotionally-constipated hypocrites. -. . . . .

please dm dr. st debra mcleod to stop writing about “we women”. i find it very, terribly all-inclusive as a “woman”.*

She was talking about ladies with decorum, decent and ladylike.

See that she said the men would become gentlemanly.

Men would often put on their best behavior when they see a girl of class they like till they 'catch' her if their intents are not genuine.

There is a reason we have public and private parts. There is also a reason why the public is called 'public'.

Decorum and decency is expected.

And you would be shocked what decent people discuss with their friends and partners in private.

doitforyou:
hahaha another woman sleeping around does not affect you in any way. You just want to force your values on people. Mind your business.

What if your brother becomes interested in such a girl who after marriage still can't keep it in her pants and infect him with HIV or staph?

spongeisback:
Exactly! Whenever Africans bring up culture and religion just know they're about to infringe on someone's right. If a woman wants to have sex let her have sex, if she doesn't let her don't. No need to shame anyone for their choice after all you won't bear the consequences with them.

Most people think of the communal effect of our decisions.

The society is affected if the family is broken down.

The OP is not even African.

I agree with you anyways: when a typical Nigerian man says he is an African man, the succeeding sentence is usually negative.

boldconfidence:
I do not always agree with your views. But on this one you are making a lot of sense.

Hahahahahahaha

essenceplus:
Why did this not make FP. Damn hilarious Feminists won't allow any contrarian voice get heard. Shiny skull cococandy and the likes. DukeofNZ where you dey

The OP claims to be a feminist.

This has got nothing to do with feminism.

crackhaus:
Has anyone here thought about how seemingly popular it is for 'liberated' women to want to exercise their liberation more in negative vices rather than positive ones?

- Men can be loud and talk about their sexual conquests, women should too. Liberation
- Men can sleep around and not be judged, women should too. Liberation.
- Men can be rude and not have to apologize for it, women should too. Liberation

Etc.

What happened to things like:
- Men have been the ones designing and building civilizations, women should begin doing this.
- Men go to space and walked on the moon, women should do that too.
- There are more male billionaires, women should aspire to this and match it.

Etc.


I just had to do this, despite my better judgment, because this is the substance I got from reading the OP, not what the majority of you are yapping about. I don't know what has happened to most women, but it seems a lot of you don't just have sense (pun intended).

Of course, those behaviours in men are equally bad...but in your so-called liberated minds, women should lower themselves to the same level of moral ineptitudes just to prove equality? Like are you people being serious?
Whatever happened to rising way above the negative things men can do/allowed to do and dignify yourselves by setting a new standard that should be emulated?

The regressive thinking being masked as progressiveness and liberation is astounding. May God help me to raise my daughter to not see men as her standard, but to set hers so men can then try to meet up.
The best way anyone should be able to do this is to build their personal library of books and literature from around the world.
If I were to ask how many of you have a library consisting of just 10 solid books with at least 500pages each, the lot of you will respond in the negative, yet you feel you know and understand anything. Where the hell then are you getting a deep knowledge of society and life in general from? From the internet? From just your own terribly limited subjective experiences?

Gosh this is becoming too much.
Ignorance has become the new fad, misinformation the new normal, simpletons the new intellectuals.

I rest.
Bukatyne take back your thread abeg.

The thread is going nowhere

I very much agree with you.

Omoluabi16:
Freedom is life's great lie.

Very true.

KanwuliaExtra:
Ok. Let NL be the judge.
I can NEVER subscribe to such blogs written by Debra McLeod for MANY REASONS.

#1. I am an authority in my own sexuality, relationship, psychiatric and emotional health. I don’t need her blogs or BOOKS from ANY relationship/marriage coach.
Dat Na for those wey need “help”! HA! DEM BOKU-BOKU. Every problem need “pastor” o. Even that which can be EASILY FIXED by the individual.

I know you very well ke, like I know MOST old posters. From the title of their threads, you can figure out what types of messages they send.
Na dis kind of “wayo” topics dem go see you.
Especially with your philosophical affiliation with some of the OP’s peculiar topics relating to male-female relationships.

The reason this thread was deleted.

https://www.nairaland.com/5222572/reason-why-thread-marital-rape


I am glad most can see through the real intentions and messages of some threads and those who post them.

Not everyone is an illiterate on NL.

I wish the OP will be more direct in his/her messages. No need for “politics”.

If she want virginity and love-letters, fine. Men like you are available. Make una nor venture near my gate.

Shikena!

My message has always been direct.

spongeisback:
OP during the days when the skies were blue and our mothers spent times listening to old tales by the fire,partly lit moon and crickets sound their only companion in the summer night. With all their mystique,virginity and kitchen poweress, they were still abused,tongue lashed, cheated on and even replaced by the men who were suppose to love and protect them.

Did you think it's this present generation that men started calling women derogatory names? My neighbor in the early 90's that was her husband's favorite name for her even though she married a virgin, churchgoer, breadwinner and mother of his 5 kids.

Marriage is a different ball game and every woman must strive to choose a good husband else whether she is mystique or mysterious, she will see pepper.

CHoccolaTE:
For heavens sake @topic, which one is feminine mystique? Is it American/British version of femininity where romance is defined by what OP described (love letters etc).

Cultures change
Values change
Norms change

There was never any globally defined meaning of femininity or feminine behaviour
In some parts of Tanzania being a woman entails tending to cattle and farming and bringing harvest back to take care of the husband. Or is it in India where women are the ones that pay bride price
On front page of Nairaland some days ago there was a thread on a certain country in Africa, I can't remember the name, where men adorn themselves with makeup so women can choose from the most attractive one of them.

Wow, what a thread

Feminine Mystique as used by the writer was when women were couth, decent and ladies.

yeyeosoronga:
Nobody writes letters anymore, and that has to do with technological advancements. Emails are going out of fashion too, especially when it comes to matters of the heart when you have WhatsApp, instant messengers etc.
Bad behaviour is rife amongst young people these days, but it's not gender dependent. The same rate low quality men are been churned out, is same as that of women.
Rude, entitled young people like the movie goers that made this person write this are everywhere, even in the good ol' days. It had nothing to do with their gender, but more like their age.
Young men brag about shifting wombs with their cassava, scattering pussies etc in public places making a nuisance of themselves, so such senseless talks and behaviour is not gender specific. More to do with stupidity in young people, because almost all thrash talkers like that are young <25years. The older ones have perfected the act of silence/chop and clean mouth and this has always been the case since time immemorial (because it doesn't mean the older generation have better morals tbh. Many of them are hypocrites)
The world is changing, and what was of value those days is no longer valuable. Values are changing worldwide.

I do not think decorum in public is hypocrisy.

There is a reason we have enough public and private parts. Ditto public places.

No one has said these evils are gender dependent. If I lament how boys are doing blood money doesn't mean girls don't have their hands smeared with blood too.

Agreed that times have changed and we have faster outlets than letters, the spirit behind the letters can still be present in the into any messaging apps we have.

Morals have been same however decent people didn't discuss their business in public.

cococandy:
The problem I have with posts like these is that they target women and make them out to be evil for behaviors they praise in men. It’s disgusting to say the least.

While I wouldn’t personally chose to be loud in a movie theatre about who I humped or what not, I’ll make a point to condemn such behavior equally in any gender. If it’s an issue when women do it but doesn’t matter when men do it, then the problem isn’t the behavior itself but our need to fit women into a certain mold. A mold that pleases men and on which the value of womanhood is defined. ie by how pleasing we are to men.

In those “good old days” when men were more mystified by women. When men used to write love letters and what not, what happened then? How was that era more beneficial to women? Fighting for basic rights and clamoring for simple respect. Did the supposed mystery stop men from beating up women or deny them access to infrastructure and positions of power? Did that all too wonderful mystery solve any social problems for women that we aren’t still fighting for today?

I don’t take seriously any moral caution that doesn’t apply both ways. Maybe I agree with the idea that the behavior isn’t optimal but will never agree to the bias against women which is what it really is all about.

I very well agree with you that moral cautioning should go both ways and that is the major problem I have with our society.

This woman wrote to women because

1. She is female
2. She is addressing a society complaining of shortage of good men hence her statement 'quality ladies attract quality men'
3. She is addressing women who complain of not been respected or complain of been treated the way they present themselves.

The truth is that in marriage, it is a different balm game. All the advantages a woman seems to have been mystified ends at the altar (like they say, shakara don end!).

Look at all the advantages the men scream women have: it is always outside marriage; it is always from men in the society and not their own husbands.

That's why I sound like a broken record: every woman needs to choose a husband diligently.

KanwuliaExtra:
Indeed! The writer was only trying to be “mischievous”. She was only playing the devil’s advocate to prepare her readers for her real BEEF. The perfect manifesto for “brain-washers”aka pastors, swindlers and yahoo guys/dolls.
She knew she would find an audience by mentioning “feminism”, so the usual feminism-bashers would answer the call to war, even without understanding what they are reading.


I ask you again:
What has feminism got to do with a group of ladies experiencing some kind of psycho-sexual “hangover” in a movie theater?

Why did the author even mention feminism in her article? To settle her own wahala with the nostalgia of “virginity”. You already know.
She finally landed by talking of how women used to be “enigmatic” and “mystical” to MEN! Ha! In this age of same-sex unions?

Anyone can just wake up, pick a particular behavior or lifestyle he/she does not believe in and find any way to sneak the word “feminism” into it.

You find this all over NL.
If people understood that feminism is purely subjective, they would never discuss it.

This is a classical case of a logical fallacy of ASSOCIATION. You should be familiar with how con-artists operate. They start by appealing to your weakest emotions, then finally land to rip you off with their true intentions.

But because the word “feminism” has been misused by most, it brings out the worst in the most shallow minds. Why? To create unnecessary “beef” amongst emotional intellectuals devoid of any sense of understanding.

The author is in a clime where the feminism card is played a lot both ways.

Feminists: she should leave the young girls to express themselves.

Non-feminists: it is because women think they are equal to men that they want to start behaving like them.

desvi:
I think you are guilty of what sociologists call moral panic
you assume a moral breakdown, not even decline whereas there is no such a thing
you can't take some examples from social media of people who show off their bodies or wealth (something people have always been doing in different forms) and claim that people nowadays have no values
and like the author you have not made any distinction between people of different social and educational backgrounds
I was personally appalled by the language and crassness of these young ladies the author of the article saw with her husband but for every one of them there are young people who mind their language and consciously and eloquently articulate themselves, who have good manners
there are also studies that show that young Westerners nowadays (unfortunately there is no such study I know from Africa) uphold traditional family values even more than their parents do/did and values which were used to write the human rights charter are to a great extent universally accepted, something that people some 100 years ago could not even dream of
bottom line is: times have changed, so have some moral standards in the way that they have become stronger or have been replaced but never disappeared

While I agree with you that some people still hold the moral values dear, a lot have been immoral and what we would cringe at previously is now accepted or ignored.

In addition to break down of morals in Nigeria, you have the hypocrisy: we encourage people to do things we wouldn't ourselves.