₦airaland Forum

KaLuCh:
1. Boss, that the bible doesn't use the phrase God the Son is what you are holding on to? What kind of logic sef is that... He called God His father, Himself the son, and from many scriptural references, He is God.. Thus, God the son. Or the Son who is God or God who is the Son... This is not difficult. But people wey dey find talk would grasp at anything.

If you still don't think He is God the Son, that's fine. I'm done with that.

2. YES, calling someone GOD makes them equal to GOD. THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. There are no scriptural classification of GOD. Gods is not the plural of GOD. GOD IN PLURAL IS GOD. In the Bible, Eloah and Elohim are translated GOD, even though ELOHIM is pluraic for GOD. In Hebrew Bible, GOD (Eloah and Elohim) are differentiated from god or gods by the addition of the article ha-, to mean, the God.

Thus gods are not of the same essence or class as GOD. There is only ONE class of GOD, one essence of GOD. Jesus is in that class from the begining.. That's what my Bible says, He is first and last, the mighty God.

(Ref: Isaiah 9:6- “For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace”)

Jesus was not referred to as god or gods as men and heavenly hosts were sometimes.

3. If Jesus is God, and the Father is God, obviously you can't have one person God. Three distinct persons hold the office of God. It's not 3 God, it is 3 persons of equal GODSHIP. I'm sure you understand the concept of the arms of Governmnent... Even more appropriate, three kings in a kingdom. It happens.

Again, the apostle you mentioned still called Jesus, God. It's either he was stupid to say still call the Father, God and yet says there's only one God or you simply don't want to understand the fact that three distinct persons were constantly referred to as God equally in the Bible..

Here's what the Lord said to that effect:

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit... (Matthew 28:18 & 19).

You can also throw another of your strawman's argument that the above scriptural reference does not imply 3 person of equal authority... But here's one more place where Eloah referred to Elohim in the bible:

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let US make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

4. Now let's go by your logic that the Father made the son everything the son is. Well do you know the concept of Heir apparent? It is the son or prince that takes all the authority and status of the King, and once that happens, the son becomes King, equal in position, dominion and class.

Jesus said “All authority (all power of absolute rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me..." (Matt 28:18).

All authority in heaven means 'all authority in heaven' with the exception of nothing. The FATHER doesn't have a higher authority than the SON.

5. About the early church not believing in the trinity, boss, Peter referred to Jesus as God, Paul did, Timothy did. Those were the bishops of the earliest church. But it goes even farther than them, Jesus was called God by David, Isaiah, Malachi, the Father himself... How farther back than that can we go to establish that Jesus is God... Do you even know the reason the Bible says the fullness of Godhead bodily dwelled in Jesus? Or why His name is the name that the father, the spirit and all of creation bows to?

Your number 5 is what I fear the most. Where did those people call Jesus God in the Bible?

Is there any word like Godhead in the manuscript of the Bible?

But actually the fullness of God dwelled in Jesus through the holy spirit while he was human just like the fullness of God was in saints baptized with the holy spirit.

What's the difference between god, God and GOD?

So did they believe in trinity or not?

Or did they believe in one God, the Father?


In your number 4, why didn't Jesus have authority on his own?

Why did the Father give him authority? Will Jesus hold the authority forever?

If you can't answer that, just read 1 Corinthians 15:24-28. You'll see that Jesus will actually hand over his authority to GOD the Father in the future when he finishes his mission.

Surely right now, Jesus is the King of god's kingdom.

In conclusion, anything could be God, but the Father is the one true God there's.

mhmsadyq:
Iblis has always being a jinn:
Al-Kahf 18:50
Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrong-doers!
Saying all jinns are bad is saying all humans are bad:

There are righteous jinns and there are evil jinns:
Al-Jinn 72:11
'There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths.
Al-Jinn 72:13
'And as for us, since we have listened to the Guidance, we have accepted it: and any who believes in his Lord has no fear, either of a short (account) or of any injustice.

Behold! We said to the angels,

How did Iblis become part of the angels?

They (angels) bowed down except Iblis

Was Iblis not an angel? How did a Jinn show up where angels are called?

He was one of the Jinns

He disobey his lord because he was one of the Jinns. Which means all Jinns disobey, that's they are rebellious.

So if the Koran say they are righteous in other verses. It not new to me. It's has always been like that I'm the all glorious Koran written by your all wise Allah himself.
For example, Koran says in some verses that you should show kindness to your parents no matter what. Even if they are unbelievers.
It also says in some verses that you shouldn't show kindness to them at all.

Koran explicitly say that Jews, Christians and Muslims serve the same God, Jews and Christians will receive rewards from their Lord and also say Jews and Christians will go to hell.

So contradictions like that are not new.

RoyalDiadems:
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is for power, not for being born again. In Acts 1, Jesus clearly told His disciples "Tarry ye in Jerusalem until ye be endowed with power (not until ye be born again) from on high."
The Holy Spirit begins His work of rebirth right from the time you receive the gospel message and believe. You have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is more than the Holy Spirit dwelling in you, it is you dwelling in the Holy Spirit. You are baptised, dipped or immersed into the Holy Spirit.
That's why Acts 1:8 says "and ye shall receive power (not and ye shall be born again) after the Holy Ghost is COME UPON (not come into) you.
You must be able to differentiate these two glorious events in the life of a believer.

Lol. Now your saying the holy spirit automatically comes to someone for the rebirth. Pls where'd you got that from?
Did the disciples got the holy spirit before the day of Pentecost?

Is the function of the holy spirit only to empower someone? Cos it's also the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life. It has other functions.

I mistakenly pressed submit without finishing my response, you can check it out again.

Anyone could be rich, anyone could be poor.
It doesn't matter what religion you practice.

[quote author=RoyalDiadems post=112513787][/quote]

Let me ask you these questions. The disciples who walked with the Lord Jesus, who cast out devils in Luke 9 and 10, and who gathered in the upper room to fast and seek the face of the Lord in expectation of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, were they born again?

They weren't born again that's why they needed to be baptized by the holy spirit cos it's the holy spirit that does the work giving birth to spiritual life and for them to enter the kingdom of God in heaven.

The malefactor on the right hand of Jesus on Calvary, whom Jesus promised, 'Today, you shall be with me in paradise." Was he born again?

Did Jesus promise him a life in heaven or the kingdom of God? No.
What Jesus meant was that he would be raised in the future and live on the New earth.

I maintain the position of the scriptures that a man is saved by the word of faith and empowered by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Many who are not baptised in the Holy Spirit would make heaven as the malefactor did.

Can the thief enter God's Kingdom? No!
Why?
Cos he wasn't born of water and the spirit (i.e he wasn't born again). It's the holy spirit that gives birth to spiritual life.

Only some few population of the saints will rule/are ruling in heaven with Jesus Christ the king of kings

The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from being born again

According to Jesus, it is the baptism of the holy spirit that makes one born again.

The disciples were born again before the day of Pentecost. The European Eunuch to whom Philip preached was also born again though he was not baptised in the Holy Spirit.

Really?
The Ethiopian eunuch didn't even understand the scriptures before Philip came to him. How could he believe and get saved?
The disciples weren't born again nor was the eunuch.
The disciples eventually got born again but the eunuch just remained saved cos he didn't receive the holy spirit. He was just baptized by water. There's no way he could enter God's Kingdom. But he'll sure be raised in the future when Jesus comes the second time and live forever on earth.

The scriptures testified that he went home rejoicing. That's the joy of salvation.
If you still hold a contrary opinion, then answer my two questions above.

Joy of salvation not joy of getting born again.
I already I think.

You ought to understand that the Word of God is Spirit. John 1 says, it's God. John 6:63 says "it's Spirit and life." That's what gives it the ability to birth a new creature in Christ.

Without believing the living word of God, there's no way you could become saved and born again.

Hismasterpiece:
Lol @ 12. Both believes the Bible to be authority but interpretation of their prophets / governing body is more authority. .. So true.. But MaxInDHouse Cornelboy and Janosky disagree with you..

Lol . Which interpretation do you follow?
Obviously the Catholics

Hismasterpiece:
@ the bolded.. what if they no wan hear?

Matthew 10:14
[14]If any household or town refuses to welcome you or listen to your message, shake its dust from your feet as you leave.

mhmsadyq:
Angels are different from jinns.
Man is different from jinn or angel.
An-Najm 53:11
The (Prophet's) (mind and) heart in no way falsified that which he saw.
:12
Will ye then dispute with him concerning what he saw?
This is your own conjecture:
Al-An'am 6:116
Wert thou to follow the common run of those on earth, they will lead thee away from the way of Allah. They follow nothing but conjecture: they do nothing but lie.

What was Iblis before he became a Jinn? He was definitely an angel. Which means all Jinns are bad and don't even need to be preached to.

[quote author=AntiChristian post=112536716][/quote]

The Qur'an never said Prophets were sent to Jinns. Only one Prophet was sent to the Jinn and that is Muhammad. And our believe is far from yours. Your Angels can rebel. They can eat. They can enter the womb of humans and be born by them. They can have sex and impregnate humans. They have free will and can disobey their creator. They can fight and lose to humans. All these are contrary to what we believe as Muslims.

Lol. Where did the Koran say angels can't rebel, eat, be born by humans, turn to human, have sex and impregnate?

And how did Mohammed communicate with the Jinns?
Shebi your Koran say Jinns and humans were created for same purpose, to worship. Why did your all wise Allah fail to send prophets to the Jinns before Mohammed?

How are you Muslims doing that now? I mean how are you communicating with the Jinns to warn them today?

Fantasy, incoherent.

As other Church goers you bring lies to impugned Islam. Yet you believe it was Jesus who posed as light to convert Paul.
Was it a demon that converted Paul?

What's your concern with that?

The last time I checked history, Paul was 1000000 times righteous than your bloody prophet. He didn't even marry, was busy doing God's will.

He did powerful miracles just like Jesus which proved God was with him.
He was peaceful and didn't spread the gospel through fighting and shedding of blood.
But how did Mohammed take over Mecca

Could demon bring out those fruits in Paul?

You can read the Surah (chapter) of the Jinns. You will be briefed how they heard the recitation and believed.

The Jinns will go to heaven too abi? Or what's their reward for believing? Believe what sef?

No need to bring negative emotions and lies here to cause argument as your Bible instructor has informed you. You are acting like those church goers!

Lol. Was Iblis an angel before he turned to Jinn? If he was an angel, then are Jinns generally bad and rebellious angels?
Or did your Allah create jinns to be bad?
Who are Jinns?

How did Bible stories found it way into the Koran? Awọn set of forgers

KaLuCh:
For using the word misinformed, I would not reply you but just maybe if I show you what you asked, you might see the light. If you don't, well, at least I tried.

Places in the bible where Jesus was called God and where He referred to Himself as the Son of God.

John 10:30 “The Father and I are one.”

Titus 2:13-“Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ”

Isaiah 7:14-“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel” (which literally means “God with us”).

Malachi 3:1-2-“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Philippians 2:5-6 “You must have the same attitude that Christ Jesus had. Though he was God, he did not think of equality with God as something to cling to.”

John 1:18 “No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.“

Colossians 2:9-10 “For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. and in Christ you have been brought to fullness. He is the head over every power and authority."

Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”

2 Peter 1:1 “Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ.“

John 5:18 “This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.“

John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.“

9. John 1:14 “And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.“

Revelation 1:17-18 “When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand on me, saying, “Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.“

Acts 20:28 “Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.“

Romans 9:5 "of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.
"

1 Timothy 3:16-“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

Heb. 1:8-9 “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows”


By no means an exhaustive list. I don't really care what you think, but Jesus is God.

Where does the Bible say Jesus is God the son?

Where does it say Jesus is God in same essence as the the Father?

Does calling someone God make him equal to the true God, the Father whose name is Jehovah (Yahweh)?

What did Jesus teach about the person of God?
Did he say God is three in one or just one singular person? John 17:3

What did Paul an Apostle filled with the holy spirit say about God? He said the Father is the one God there's. 1 Corinthians 8:5&6, Ephesians 4:6.

God, the Father made Jesus both the Messiah and Lord.
Did Jesus have anything on his own or he got everything from the Father? Power, authority, name, kingdom, from whom did Jesus got them from? Is Jesus in anyway co equal, co powerful, co existing as the Trinitarians teach?

So did the early church believe in trinity or one person God, the Father?

When did people start believing in the pagan doctrine of trinity?

God, the Father called some certain people Gods in the Bible, did that mean those people are Gods in same essence as God Himself?

KaLuCh:
Jesus is God. In Christianity we know God the father, God the son and God the Holy Spirit. Our entire faith is founded upon Christ being as much God as the father. To deny that, to be apologetic about that, to concede even one bit against that, is a denial of the faith.

If you don't believe so, you are not a Christian the bible way. If you feel the need to debate against the deity of Christ, you are not a true Christian. If you mention me to call me misguided or whatever you wish, I will not respond as I don't care what you think.

Only if you could show me where the Bible says Jesus is God the Son.
Misinformed people sha.

MindHacker9009:
1. Jesus asked His father in heaven to forgive the Roman soldiers who were occupying the Holy land but could not forgive Judas, His own disciple and Jewish fellow.

2. Jesus was a friend of the tax collectors who were collecting taxes from the Jews to give to the Romans.

3. On taxes to Rome, Jesus said to them, “Then give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” But with the temple tax God commanded Moses to collect, Jesus said they were exempt.

4. Jesus prophesied the destruction of Judea and the Temple which the Romans carried out but Jesus did not prophesy the destruction of Rome that was occupying the Holy land and crucifying the Jew who opposed them.

From the above the story that Jesus had a wife and kids and later moved to Europe after the FAKE crucifixion and FAKE resurrection sounds very true.

Where did the Bible say he didn't forgive Judas?
Make ọnà keep forming stories up.

[quote author=MaxInDHouse post=112495197][/quote]

Revelations 5:10

Psalms 37:9-11,29; Isaiah 65:21-23

Psalms 115:16

Just in case they want to know where you got all these!

Thanks for providing the scriptures.

If you wanna split and quote next time, it doesn't need to carry the name every time.

Just highlight whatever you want to quote after bringing it out of the main quote and press that quote button.

Hismasterpiece:
Okay man, i'm tired of arguing..

New earth and new world, na human beings go dè there.

I can't be tired of making people see the TRUTH.

Hismasterpiece:
But you don't believe ALL Christians go there when they die except the 144000 talked about in the book of revelation

Sha remember that those who want to be teachers will face a stricter judgement than the average believer.. I'm just saying..

Sha remember that it was the Bible that said that the 144000 will be with Christ in heaven and they will later reign on earth.

All the righteous will live on these present world forever in the future. God no go carry all us go heaven.
Humans were created to live on earth not heaven.

RoyalDiadems:
The Bible is clear on the issue:
"For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God." 1Peter 1:21

There's no rebirth during Holy Spirit Baptism. You need to have the experience to understand. Those of us who have been privileged to have the experience, and given the grace to minister it to others, know fully well that being born again and being baptized in the Holy Spirit are two different things.

The word of God that was spoken to you, through which you believed, and through we you surrendered your life to Christ is the one that birthed you into God's family.

John 3:3-6
[3]Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God.”
[4]“What do you mean?” exclaimed Nicodemus. “How can an old man go back into his mother’s womb and be born again?”
[5]Jesus replied, “I assure you, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit.
[6]Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives birth to spiritual life.

At verse 3, Jesus said no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born again.
Nicodemus asked what he meant by being born again at verse 4.
Jesus later explained that it means being born of water and spirit.

So before you could be born again, you have to hear the word of God and believe first, that's get saved according to Romans 10:9&10 and then you can now be born of the spirit.

Hope you now understand what Peter meant at 1 Peter 1:21?

If you were a born again, it means you heard the living word of God, you believed and then you were later baptized by the holy spirit (born of the spirit) through any means God used.

Jesus was very clear on what born again means.

maxevans:
where does it say it's alcoholic, chapter and verse, please?

Matthew 11:18-19
[18]For John didn’t spend his time eating and drinking, and you say, ‘He’s possessed by a demon.’
[19]The Son of Man, on the other hand, feasts and drinks, and you say, ‘He’s a glutton and a drunkard, and a friend of tax collectors and other sinners!’ But wisdom is shown to be right by its results.”

Did Jesus drink wine? Yes!

When wine is mentioned in the Bible, it always refers to something alcoholic, probably alcoholic wine made from fruits or vine, vinegar.

MaxInDHouse:
As WITNESSES of JEHOVAH we're not sent to speak about the flaws in different religions, rather we are sent to PREACH the Good News of God's Kingdom. So leave arguments having to do with various religious sects for the Churchgoers. You're much more precious in JEHOVAH'S eyes than wasting your time, energy and resources on worthless arguments! Titus 3:9
Please target those who are rightly disposed for everlasting life {Act 13:48} so that Jehovah's angels may notice your fine WORKS {Malachi 3:16} and write your name in the book of life! Revelations 20:15
When all unbelievers are gone see yo there in Paradise!

Alright thanks.

maxevans:
I believe he called it alcohol...! Well, can't say for sure if it's wine or alcohol... I'll leave that to the bible experts to decide...!

The wine Jesus turned from water was alcoholic.

Jinns that the Bible describes to be rebellious angels sent to earth and bound for destruction are actually what the Koran says prophets were sent to, to preach to them bla bla bla.

A jinn probably staged as angel Gabriel and gave his fellow jinns and himself some importance. Whereas, they are just demons doing Satan's work.

If you asked Muslims how those prophets were able to communicate with the Jinns and preached to them, they would start running from pillar to post.

MaxInDHouse:
And what has all these got to do with with the reality of heaven?

My guy i've told you several times that what your God told you meant nothing to us so keep whatever your God say while we keep our own. Let your God judge us if it's truly God but if it's our own God that's the true God know now that you will PERISH!

I argued for like straight 2 months with that JW man before I saw the full TRUTH.
It started with arguement actually but later learning when I saw he had something to offer. I had to do a lot studying on my own before I saw the TRUTH and agreed with him.

MaxInDHouse:
Funny Misinformed Churchgoer!
He wants to win over JWs who knew better than him and all his Daddy GOs.
Everything he depends on is the common false teachings and long time tradition not on God's word.
When those people were coming with the Bible and publications their Pastors told them lies and ask them to excuse themselves always but not on a public forum where JWs can flow using the scriptures to explain everything they can only watch helplessly and threatening everyone with their HellFire stuff!

I just de look am.

How's the wine bad?
Ask Elon musk if he doesn't drink wine o.

Hismasterpiece:
So your dad doesn't approve of your JW affiliation? Not surprising. JWs generally don't have a good rep among other Christian denominations. So what's your plan?

It's normal.
When you've been fed for years with lies (which you believe to be the truth) and someone just came and tell you something entirely different, which is actually the truth, you would definitely think the person bringing another doctrine is a liar.

Though I was born believing in hell, Trinity, immortal soul, and other unscriptural teachings, I could see the pure TRUTH from the Bible via the help of the JWs.
So it's about what the Bible really say, not what you've been fed with since childhood.

Jesus, the apostles and the early churches weren't hated cos they were bad but cos they had the TRUTH.

Pls stop spreading lies about the JWs.
We believe heaven is real.

Hismasterpiece:
Sigh.. I would have refuted your point again but at this point it is clear to me that nland is not the place to win JWs over. So peace!

Lol.

Hismasterpiece:
Interesting.. So why aren't you JW yet?

I'm still a Bible student, not yet baptized.

My dad is a CAC pastor. And my studying with the JWs has not really been smooth for me.

No, but you say believers don't go there when they die, so you have in essence said it isn't real... to believers

That's just your thought.

Heaven is real whether believers go there or not after death.

Did you read the below post? Some believers are already in heaven.

cornelboy Hismasterpiece:
Your absolutely not wrong.

The kingdom has already been established in heaven already and it will surely come to earth to establish justice and righteousness. The kingdom being led by Jesus will carry out God's will for earth. Matthew 6:10


Revelation 5:9-10
[9]And they sang a new song with these words:
“You are worthy to take the scroll and break its seals and open it. For you were slaughtered, and your blood has ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.

[10]And you have caused them to become a Kingdom of priests for our God. And they will reign on the earth.”

Revelation 14:3-5
[3]This great choir sang a wonderful new song in front of the throne of God and before the four living beings and the twenty-four elders. No one could learn this song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth.
[4]They have kept themselves as pure as virgins, following the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been purchased from among the people on the earth as a special offering to God and to the Lamb.
[5]They have told no lies; they are without blame.

You see that the 144000 are those chosen by God from every tribes of the earth. They have the seal of the holy spirit. They are part of the kingdom established in heaven. Like they are in heaven right now and will later come to reign on earth. Thy are kings and Jesus is their KING. Hence Jesus is the King of kings.

Did you go to church?

Says an athiest lol.

MaDaRa01:
chairman u sef watch anime?

No. I hear my friends talk about them. Never really seen one.

Make ọnà open anime arguement thread lol.

rightdata:
Many Christians in religious countries and not so religious countries are still in poverty. What do you think is the reason for this? Let's talk.

Becoming a Christian is not an escape route from poverty. Paul advised us to work hard.

rightdata:
Many Christians in religious countries and not so religious countries are still in poverty. What do you think is the reason for this? Let's talk.

Becoming a Christian is not an escape route from poverty. Paul adviced us to work hard.