₦airaland Forum

oluminnic:
@dolphinheart
First of all, my friend
I must confess Ive really enjoyed this conversation, so intruiging and challenging
You see, may be that is where the misunderstanding is
A person (used contextually) in my write-ups does not mean a separate being but a separate character. In a stage drama one cast can act different roles (all it takes is costume) but not in the same scene. But in the story of redemption from the foundation of the earth (if taken as drama), Jehovah (recognised by his glory and splendor) was seen playing 3 different roles at the same time
Genesis 1:26

sir, the question still persists, sorry I'm asking again , but I just want to be clear as to your views.

We are talking about jehovah and in this case we are comparing him to a person or persons in a stage drama. is Jehovah
(a) a being/person in a drama who performs different characters in the same stage drama?
example: eddie Murphy performs the character of a barber, an old man and a Prince in the same stage drama.
or
(b) ojukwu, a character performed by three different beings/ persons.
example : in the same stage drama, a young boy performed as ojukwu when he was a boy, another young man performed as ojukwu when he was older, and another person performed as the same ojukwu when he was an old man.

which of these two scenarios can we apply to Jehovah?

Revelation about God as being just One God was also progressive. In Genesis 1:1, the word used for God was plural(Elohim) and this was also evidenced when the writer wrote 'Let us'

Let Us Make Man in Our Image"

"And God said, 'Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.'" Genesis 1:26, (Jewish Publication Society version, 1917)

The plurality of God is also discovered in the creation of man. According to this fascinating verse, man was created by God in his own image. However, there is something provocative and unexpected in this verse. Prior to the creation of man we find a conversation between God (Elohim) and an unidentified being ("let Us make man in Our image". Who is this person with whom God is speaking?

This person, or intelligent being, has some attributes that we can glean from the text. First, the personage is able to speak with God "on His turf", that is, in the realm of timeless eternity.

Secondly, this being apparently has the same kind of creative ability as God ("Let US make". This describes a cooperative effort between Elohim and the person with whom He is speaking.

Finally, the likeness or image of this being is comparable to God's ("In Our image, after Our likeness".

When confronted with this passage, modern rabbis often claim that God is speaking to the angels. However, this explanation fails to recognize a number of problems.

First, there is no indication in the Bible that angels can create life. Secondly, nowhere is it indicated that angels are made in the image of God. Finally, there is no indication that mankind was made in the image of angels either!

We may conclude that the person with whom Elohim is conversing lives in the eternal realm, has His creative power and exists in the image or likeness of God. No angel, no man, no created being in heaven or on earth could possibly fit these criteria.

1. was jehovah, using one of his characters , talking to other characters of the same being, or was he talking to another being?

2. how is the plurality of God discovered in the creation of man?

3. Sir "let us" can also imply that jehovah is talking to more than 1 being , he can be talking to a 100 other beings right?

4. I do not agree to this statement "in the realm of timeless eternity.". The statement "let us" occured after elements used to measure time had been created. millions of spirit creature are in existence during that that time the statement was made.

5. creative ability can be giving by God, the other being does not necessarily need to have it, it can be given to him to perform the creative works.
The scriptures is quite clear on how things came into existence, who created it and through whoM that one created it.

I can decide to create a chair through my son. I tell my son , let us make this chair for our home, this are the things you need to make it . I madd the chair through my son, but the chair belongs to me.
man is being given the ability to pro-create, but if you are asked who created you , you will say it's God.

where did the nephilims come from?

6. on the issue of cooperation, I believe the scriptures is quite clear on it at proverbs 8:30

7. what exactly does the term " image of God mean" ?

solite3:
yes Christ is still a man even to this moment.revelation 1:18 D Christ that was dead is the same who is alive

haha, so Christ is still a servant! , he did not regain his divine nature.
your statement surpports the fact that in heaven, Christ still has a God !

King James Version
Re 1:18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

if someone who lives, who now dies, who now lives again, tell you that this time he lives for ever,codes that not tell you that something has changed?

you are arguably telling us that Jesus did not present any body as a ransom for us, he collected his human body back after three days?

Sir read the bible well well, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God!

solite3:
but u ask me to quote n explain heb1:9.pls I av addressed ur questions.u can go back n read my post again for beta understanding OK.

again you failed to answer the question: pls quote and explain rev 1:1,4-6 and heb 1:9
pls tell us who is talking in rev 3: 2,12
simple question and you are still talking something else
Christ was anointed by who ? by his God
who is the God of Christ? The father
you say Christ as a man has a God, pls tell us, Is Christ still a man at this moment? does he still have a God?
awaiting your response

solite3:
u av hit the nail on the head that Jesus and his father both av one nature

I NEVER SAID THAT!
jesus was in the form of God , same nature as God . These same divine nature is what the disciples prayed to be in.
King James Version
2Pe 1:4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

King James Version
1Jo 3:2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Jesus, being a son of God, had that same divine nature or form. The scripture says he is the image of God!

2.that Jesus took d form of a servant to enable him serve(which means he is not a servant by nature

nature does not determine servitude. There are humans who do not serve God, likewise spirit creatures.

3.that Jesus took the form of man(which means he is not a man by nature, I remember DAT song u be Jehovah u re not a man o

yes jehovah is not a man and never became a man, but jesus became a man!

john 1:14 New International Version
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us...........
New Living Translation
So the Word became human and made his home among us.......
English Standard Version
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,........

phil 2:7 New International Version
...... being made in human likeness.
New Living Translation
........was born as a human being. When he appeared in human form
English Standard Version
being born in the likeness of men.

that is why jesus refered to himself as the son of man, because he was a human!
King James Version
Isa 53:3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

In conclusion Jesus is God n not Angel Michael.God bless. Now u will begin to see Jesus in a new light in my subsequent posts

imagine, you are still claiming that Jesus is the same person as the one who anointed him. did Jesus anoint himself?
he sat at the right hand of the most high, Jesus is not the most high!

again, you refuse to answer my question!

johnw74 everyone now knows you avoid posting and responding to certain scriptures

johnw74:
You haven't showed proof, you have posted translated verses that suit your satanic doctrines and call all other translations corrupted

You falsely claim ive shown no proof, why wunt you say so when your eyes have been programmed not to see it, when you refuse to respond to it.
I have not only shown proof on these thread , but I will show them again
*note you refused to respond the first time

this is proof about 1 ti 3:16

[b]"An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture

Newton argued that, by a small alteration in the Greek text, the word "God" was substituted to make the phrase read "God was manifest in the flesh." instead of "which was manifested in the flesh.". He attempted to demonstrate that early Church writers in referring to the verse knew nothing of such an alteration.

Modern translations of 1 Timothy 3:16 following the Critical Text now typically replace "God" with "He" or "He who", while the literal Emphasized has "who".

Newton did not publish these findings during his lifetime, likely due to the political climate. Those who wrote against the doctrine of the Trinity were subject to persecution in England. The Blasphemy Act 1697 made it an offence to deny one of the persons of the Trinity to be God, punishable with loss of office and employment on the first occasion, further legal ramifications on the second occasion, and imprisonment without hope for bail on the third occasion.[/b]"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture

[b]Bart D. Ehrman
“The passage in question, 1 Tim. 3:16, had long been used by advocates of orthodox theology to support the view that the New Testament itself calls Jesus God. For the text, in most manuscripts, refers to Christ as “God made manifest in the flesh, and justified in the Spirit.” As I pointed out in chapter 3, most manuscripts abbreviate sacred names (the socalled nomina sacra), and that is the case here as well, where the Greek word God (QEOS) is abbreviated in two letters, theta and sigma (QS), with a line drawn over the top to indicate that it is an abbreviation. What Wettstein noticed in examining Codex Alexandrinus was that the line over the top had been drawn in a different ink from the surrounding words, and so appeared to be from a later hand (i.e., written by a later scribe). Moreover, the horizontal line in the middle of the first letter, Q, was not actually a part of the letter but was a line that had bled through from the other side of the old vellum. In other words, rather than being the abbreviation (thetasigma) For “God” (QS), the word was actually an omicron and a sigma (OS), a different word altogether, which simply means “who.” The original reading of the manuscript thus did not speak of Christ as “God made manifest in the flesh” but of Christ “who was made manifest in the flesh.” According to the ancient testimony of the Codex Alexandrinus, Christ is no longer explicitly called God in this passage.”[/b]
https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/07/29/1-timothy-316-did-god-become-manifest-in-flesh/

[b]1. Although the above verse in the NIV does not support the Trinity, there are some Greek manuscripts that read, “God appeared in the flesh.” This reading of some Greek manuscripts has passed into some English versions, and the King James Version is one of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however, that these Greek texts were altered by scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position. The reading of the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Almost all the modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent.

2. In regard to the above verse, Bruce Metzger writes:
[“He who”] is supported by the earliest and best uncials…no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports theos ; all ancient versions presuppose hos or ho [“he who” or “he”]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading theos. The reading theos arose either (a) accidentally, or (b) deliberately, either to supply a substantive for the following six verbs [the six verbs that follow in the verse], or, with less probability, to provide greater dogmatic precision [ i.e. , to produce a verse that more clearly supports the Trinitarian position].” [1]

3. When properly translated, 1 Timothy 3:16 actually argues against the Trinity. “By common confession great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Beheld by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory” ( NASB ). This section of Scripture beautifully portrays an overview of Christ’s life and accomplishments. It all fits with what we know of the man , Jesus Christ. If Jesus were God, this section of Scripture would have been the perfect place to say so. We should expect to see some phrases like, “God incarnate,” “God and Man united,” “very God and very man,” etc . But nothing like that occurs. Instead, the section testifies to what non-Trinitarians believe—that Christ was a man, begotten by the Father, and that he was taken up into glory.

www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/1-timothy-3-16

check : www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/1Tim3_16.html


here, read this: 
* people will notice if you cut it off in your response

Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the photographic facsimile volume published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC " God was manifested in the flesh," employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation. However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line. Tregelles writes, "The ink in which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent application" ( An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854). Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC " He who was manifested in the flesh." In the photograph below the ΘC in 3:16 is circled. Further down, in verse 4:3, there is another
ΘC circled for comparison. Click on the circled areas for a larger view.

www.bible-researcher.com/alexandrinus4.html


Scholars commenting on 1 Timothy 3:16........

2. Anthony Buzzard:
“ Another example of a text which was altered is 1 Timothy 3:16 . This verse reads in the KJV: “God was manifested in the flesh .” Modern versions have corrected the word “God” to “He who.” The alteration of an original “He who” (in Greek Oj) was very sneakily accomplished when some scribes changed the O (omicron) into a q (theta) giving qj (theta sigma). The reading THS was an abbreviated form of the Greek word theos, God. All that had to be done was to draw a little line across the middle of the O to produce the Greek letter theta (q). Then the text was made to sound Trinitarian and to support the Incarnation: “God was manifested in the flesh.” “He who” (O j) was made to read “God” (qj).”......

4. Bart D. Ehrman:
“The passage in question, 1 Tim. 3:16, had long been used by advocates of orthodox theology to support the view that the New Testament itself calls Jesus God. For the text, in most manuscripts, refers to Christ as “God made manifest in the flesh, and justified in the Spirit.” As I pointed out in chapter 3, most manuscripts abbreviate sacred names (the socalled nomina sacra), and that is the case here as well, where the Greek word God (QEOS) is abbreviated in two letters, theta and sigma (QS), with a line drawn over the top to indicate that it is an abbreviation. What Wettstein noticed in examining Codex Alexandrinus was that the line over the top had been drawn in a different ink from the surrounding words, and so appeared to be from a later hand (i.e., written by a later scribe). Moreover, the horizontal line in the middle of the first letter, Q, was not actually a part of the letter but was a line that had bled through from the other side of the old vellum. In other words, rather than being the abbreviation (thetasigma) For “God” (QS), the word was actually an omicron and a sigma (OS), a different word altogether, which simply means ‘who .’ The original reading of the manuscript thus did not speak of Christ as ‘God made manifest in the flesh’ but of Christ “who was made manifest in the flesh.” According to the ancient testimony of the Codex Alexandrinus, Christ is no longer explicitly called God in this passage.”........

5. Johann Jakob Griesbach:
“ This reading OS, is supported by most ancient witnesses of all classes [manuscripts, versions, and Fathers] and it is recommended also, by its internal indications of truth. On the contrary, the Vulgate Theos, was neither the primitive reading of the Alexandrine, nor of the Western recension: and further, it cannot be defended by arguments drawn from nature [or goodness] of the reading itself; but it is supported only by a number of manuscripts of a later date, belonging chiefly to the Constantinopolitan recension; and by the dubious credit to the more modern Greek Fathers; and could not be found in any monument of antiquity, prior to the close of the fourth century.”.....

8. Richard N. Longenecker:
“Passages in Paul where theos is employed of Christ are lacking. The appeal to 1 Timothy 3: 16 is undoubtedly illegitimate , for the reading ‘who (Oc) was manifested in the flesh’ has much stronger textual support than ‘God (theos) was manifested in flesh .’” 

11. Bruce M. Metzger
The evidences presented agree that 1 Timothy 3:16 does not say “God was manifest in flesh”, instead “He was manifest in flesh.” It was due to a scribe that the Greek word “OC” was changed into “theos.” Majority of the experts further showed that in the earliest manuscripts they have available, it does not read God (theos) but “he”, “who” or “which.”

https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/07/29/1-timothy-316-did-god-become-manifest-in-flesh/

I had once shown you (not on this thread) the truth with proof about 1 john 5:7 but as alwaY's you will not see it. If the above are not proof enough for you, I wonder what is.

false jw use what ever Bible translation that suits their satanic doctrines
if a received text translation suits them they will use it and say the modern translations are wrong
if a modern translation suits them they will use it and say the received text translation is wrong

you have a right to quote the translation I quoted that you dnt surpport and tell me why it's wrong.

fact is many of the old hebrew and greek texts were corrupted and had sentences taken out by the roman church
translations of the received texts are considered by most to be reliable, such as the KJV 1611

this statement of your is devoid of proof, facts or examples.
If I ask you to tell us the manuscripts that was used in transLatin the KJV, you will start shaking, refusing to answer cus you know the answer will prove what you wrote above as false.

I only post from the KJV, I don't need to search all over the place and post verses from different translations

good, then listen to it when it tells you who your God is!
King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

King James Version
1Co 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

King James Version
1Co 8:6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

solite3:
tanks for ur. reply let me analyse Philippians 2:6-8
Vs6 who( Jesus)being in the form (nature) of God, thought it not robbery( did not hold to his equality with God) to be equal with God
Vs7 But made himself of no reputation ( which means Jesus had a reputation before as the most high which he put down) and took the form of a servant (which again means he was not a servant before.what about angels? checkout hebrews1:14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent to minister for the heirs of salvation) The word angel mean servant.so angel cannot take d form of what he already is.just like saying a man taking the form of man.funny.[/color]see what angel told John when John wanted to pay obeisance to him Revelation22:8-9 [/b]And I John saw these things, and heard them I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things.
Vs9 then he saith unto me, see thou do it not; [i][/i][b][/b]for I am thy fellow servant,and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book, worship God.[b]) and was made in the likeness of men(see john 1:18)
Vs8 And being found in fashion as a man he humbled himself,and became obedient,unto death even the death of the cross. of cos I agree with the whole bible not just one part.

your analysis is wrong! Paul was talking about having the same mental attitude with christ , to have humility , to have unity and love in mind, to consider others superior to you.
For Jesus said :
[color=blue] King James Version
Mt 11:29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

phil 2:6 English Standard Version
who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

the above verse is telling us that Jesus, despite being in the same nature or form with God , did not count it that he can be equal to God , a sharp contrast from Satan. He did not see his nature as giving him the right/ authority or chance to grasp equality with God.
col 1:15English Standard Version
He is THE IMAGE of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

heb 1: 3 International Standard Version
He is the reflection of God's glory and the exact likeness of his being, and he holds everything together by his powerful word. After he had provided a cleansing from sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Highest Majesty
* jesus is not the highest majesty!


phil 2:7 English Standard Version
but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men.

Jesus was so humble that he agreed to take the form of a servant, so as to carry out the instructions of the highest majesty. so that God's purpose might be fulfilled.

King James Version
Joh 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

King James Version
Joh 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

King James Version
1Jo 4:9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

phil 2: 8 English Standard Version
And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross

Jesus, after humbly taking on human form, he continued being humble even to the point of death.
King James Version
Joh 10:17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

King James Version
Heb 2:9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

1Ti 2:5, 6For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,6who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all—this is what is to be witnessed to in its own due time.


phil 2: 9English Standard Version
Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,

Again , you can see that Jesus is not the God in these verse. because of the humility, loyalty and love(even till death) that Jesus showed , God exalted him and gave him a name above every other name!

Isa 52:13Look! My servant will act with insight. He will be raised up high, He will be elevated and greatly exalted.

Ac 2:32, 33God resurrected this Jesus, and of this we are all witnesses.
33Therefore, because he was exalted to the right hand of God and received the promised holy spirit from the Father, he has poured out what you see and hear.

Eph 1:20, 21which he exercised toward Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places,
21far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name that is named, not only in this system of things but also in that to come.

1. Jesus was not/ never equal to God before, presently or in the future!
2. Jesus never at any time ever had the reputation as the most high!
3. Jesus was not said to take the form of an angel, he took the form of a human, that form is what the writer was referring to as a servants form!


read : www.bibleanswerstand.org/philippians.htm

ANGEL.
Strong's Concordance
malak: a messenger
Original Word: מַלְאָך
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: malak
Phonetic Spelling: (mal-awk')
Short Definition: angel

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from an unused word
Definition
a messenger
NASB Translation
ambassadors (2), angel (101), angels (9), envoys (1), messenger (24), messengers (76).

biblehub.com/hebrew/4397.htm

aggelos: an angel, messenger
Original Word: ἄγγελος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: aggelos
Phonetic Spelling: (ang'-el-os)
Short Definition: an angel, messenger
Definition: a messenger, generally a (supernatural) messenger from God, an angel, conveying news or behests from God to men.
biblehub.com/greek/32.htm

now the question, was Jesus sent by God to give us a message?
was jesus a supernatural being?

you did not answer my question, do you agree with the scriptures I quoted earlier?

You should have left him to answer the question when you knew you could not answer it

johnw74:
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

It is Jesus through His angel that gave revelation to John

and again:

Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man,....

now did someone give jesus this revelation that he passed on to John through the angel?
who gave jesus the Revelation ?
A. someone
B. no one.

expo:
King James Version
Da 2:28But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

johnw74, do not turn a blind eye and refuse to explain this part of the verse along with your other explanation:

[b]New International Version
The revelation from Jesus Christ, WHICH GOD GAVE HIM TO SHOW HIS SERVANTS what must soon take place.

Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The Father is the Son's God, duh, yeah knows that


Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

in verse 8 the Father called Jesus God
then in the next verse 9, the writer of Hebrews
could have himself called Jesus God, when he said "therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee"

because there would have been no need to add "therefore God" to say "even thy God, hath anointed thee"
it could have simply been said:

Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefor thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows

so this is likely what the writer meant in verse 9:

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God (Jesus Christ), even thy God (the Father), hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

it is good that the writer was clear enough on the relationship between jesus and the person making the statement. whichever way you want to look at it, it is clear that the person talking is the God of jesus!, therefore jesus , being a God, still has a God that anointed him above his companions ,( take note: jesus has companions).
If jesus has a God , them jesus is not the almighty God !
now the question is, does jesus have a God?

The scriptures gives us these answers

2 cor 1: 3 New International Version
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,

eph 1: 3 King James Bible
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

1 pet 1:3King James Bible
Blessed be [color=red]the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,[/b]

There are more evidence from the disciples :

King James Version
1Co 8:5For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.


1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

Mal 2:10“Do we not all have one father? Was it not one God who created us? So why do we deal treacherously with one another, profaning the covenant of our forefathers?

Mt 23:9Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One.

AND FROM JESUS HIMSELF!
King James Version
Joh 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

the above scriptures prove your explanation on heb 1:9 to be false and the verse simply reads(brackets are my additions):
New International Version
You(jesus) have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God,(the father) your God,(the only true god, the almighty, God and Father of jesus) has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."
Isa 61:1
Lu 3:21, 22
Lu 4:18

Jesus has a God that is superior to him, the father does not have a god that is superior to him!
1Jo 5:20And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.

Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Jesus calls Father God, Father calls Jesus God

duh, so?


brocab is right, false jw's do lie and are false prophets

if you had read the question carefully, you would have seen that your answer is wrong, I simply asked you , who is talking in reV 3:2,12.

Jesus called the father HIS GOD! no where is it recorded where the father called the Son HIS OR MY GOD!

John is a manager in abc company
peter is also a manager in abc company
peter is the manager of John
john is not the manager of Peter
peter is the most senior manager, superior to John.

With this above
john can say, he is a manager
peter is my manager
but john cannot say , I am peters manager

peter can say
I am a manager
I am a manager to John who is also a manager
I am superior to John in management.

Jesus, like john is a God, but he has a superior God he is subjected to!
that superior God is Jehovah, the only true God, the father, the most high who commanded jesus to sit at his right hand.

This facts above cannot be disproved by you, you can only avoid it!

would have told you about reV 1:7,8 if you had answered the question. You deliberately left rev 1:4-6 out.why?

oluminnic:
@dolphinheart
Yes, I am saying that Jehovah manifested in 3 distinct persons

If in Adam, there can be two persons (Adam and Eve)
(Genesis: 1. 27. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. - Bible Offline) then is it too much to say that in God there are 3 distinct persons

Take it this way, to carry out a task you need to pass through 3 different phases; to achieve the first one you need to stand upright, second one you need to bend down and the third one you need to lie flat on the floor (and the 3 phases has to be done concurrently). Humanly speaking you need 3 different people but in redemption, we saw God in each of the phases working simultaneously. This is where the concept of One God appearing in 3 persons came from

sir your answer does not correspond with my question.
my question is : are you saying there are three distinct person in Jehovah?

This is different from jehovah manifested in three distinct persons. They totally mean differ things.

your views about adam is totally unacceptable . " male and and female he created THEM" and not male and female he created him!

There are no two persons in adam sir, adam is one person, another person entirely was created from adam by someone. note: adam existed as a single entity first.
adam and Eve existed as two seperate persons, likewise their children that they produced with their bodies are seperate persons.

now does jehovah have three seperate persons like Adam and Eve , or does jehovah operate as three different per sons.

on the example of tasks, are you saying jehovah performed the task through the use of three different personalities at same time , or three different personalities performed the task at same time as Jehovah.

A new question: is Jehovah a person?

brocab:
READ WHAT THE SCRIPTURES ARE SAYING TO YOU? Christ is alive today as He is alive from the beginning.
{John 14:21} "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and I will manifest Myself to him.
Jesus is alive and active now, manifesting Himself to everyone that loves Him.
{Matthew 28:18-20} {Acts 9:10-18} {John 10:3-4, 14:15, 27:29} {Matthew 18:20} "Where their are two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.

brocab , nobody is talking about if jesus is alive or dead, don't change the topic, if you dnt want to answer the question, leave it!

brocab:
YOU DENY THE WORD OF GOD BY YOUR OWN ACTIONS, DENYING "WHO IS, "WHO WAS, AND "WHO IS TO COME, DENYING CHRIST IS CHRIST WAS AND CHRIST IS TO COME.
YOU ALSO HAVE DENIED TO ANSWER {REVELATION 1:7-8} {REVELATION 1:1,4-6} {HEBREWS 1:8-9} {REVELATION 3:2,13}
YOU ARE A FALSE PROPHET AND A LAIR.

brocab , quote and explain rev 1:1,4-6, and heb 1:9. also tell us who is talking in rev 3: 2,12. do this and I'll tell you about rev 1:7,8.

you are afraid to quote those scriptures cus you know it exposes your doctrine as false!

johnw74:
The Father is called God.

Rom 15:6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Jesus is called God.

Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.


The Holy Ghost is called God.

Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.





Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:



false jw dolphinheart has been trolling this thread from the start, calling Jehovah a liar by saying that Father never called Jesus God, heb 1:8, and rejecting all verses posted showing that Jesus is God.
a couple of verses may be wrongly translated, although I doubt that, but certinally not all are

add this to your list of God's :

King James Version
2Co 4:4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

King James Version
Ps 82:1God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.
Ps 82:6I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.


Of all the gods in you post and mine , which one is the only true God?

King James Version
Joh 17:1These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
Joh 17:2As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.


which God did the scripture call our God?
[b]1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6there is actually to us one God, THE FATHER, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Eph 4:6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all[/color]

which God did Jesus call our God?
[b]King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, AND YOUR GOD.

* the above are truths from the scriptures, words directly from Jesus and the apostles. readers should note that some will claim they are twisted, but they will not be able to quote amy other version. Some wunt even touch or quote it, they will act as if it is not part of the word of God.


Jesus is a god, but he has a God superior to him! that god is called the most high, the almighty!
Eph 1:3Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,

1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

heb 1:9You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”

johnw74:
unlike you I always answer truthfully

Lets see if you will answer this it was posted on these thread 9:5 am on April 16)

"[b]Is the son the same person as the father ? no

is the son equal to the father? no, "the father is greater than i" the son says

did the son ever claim to be God almighty, God of isreal, the most high God? ? no, he only claimed to be the Son of God!

does the son sit on the same throne and have same authority as the father? no he sits at the right hand of God .

was the son given commands? yes, the almighty God cannot be given commands
does the son have a god (someone he worships ) ? yes, " I ascend to my Father... and to my God " he says.

does the son do things on his own? no , he does what the father tells him to do.

does the son show subjection to the father? absolutely yes

does the son have a beginning ? yes

does the father have? no

does the Scriptures seperate the person of God from the person of Jesus ? yes, all the time

has Jesus described God? yes , he called him the father, " the only true god"

has God described Jesus? yes , he called him " my son, in whom I'm well pleased"

is Jesus subjected to God? yes

can you be with someone and be that same person? no

for those who seek life, listen to this words
Joh 3:16“For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.
Joh 6:40For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

Joh 20:31But these have been written down so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.

Eph 1:3Praised be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, for he has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in union with Christ,

1Ti 2:5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus,

1Co 8:5For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,”
1Co 8:6there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Eph 4:6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all
These are the scriptures in which those who believe in Jesus and the father being the same God would not want to discuss with you , they prefer that the scriptures contradict itself so as to be able to hold on to their false beliefs.
The scriptures explains itself , after reading about the relationship between God and Jesus, it is left for us to now decide if the word is the same God it was with, or if he was a god who was with a much superior God, the almighty.

heb 1:9You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.”[/b]

whether I answer all or part of a post is up to me

yep, it's up to you to show your ability to answer all questions, or your crookedness in avoiding certain questions and scriptures that will/has exposed your false doctrine.

and again, I certainly won't be told what to post or how to post by a false jw antichrist who disbelieves much scripture and who changes much of what the Bible says to suit his satanic doctrines

and again, nobody is telling you to post, talk less of how to post. though, everyone now knows you avoid posting and responding to certain scriptures.

you claim that I change much of what the Bible says, but when I show you proof, you refuse to respond.

oluminnic:
@ dolphinheart
Yes
Exodus: 6. 3. And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. - Bible Offline

God was first known as God Almighty, then later He shed more light into His personality by revealing Jehovah as His name
Then He revealed Himself in Jesus and through this new and last revelation (Hebrew 1:1-2) we have insight into the wisdom of God and through this we understand the three distinct persons in One God


John: 1. 9. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. - Bible Offline

are you saying there are three distinct person in Jehovah?

brocab:
Dolphinheart you are a false prophet, and a lair, and theirs no truth found in you.
Not only do you cheat your own life, but you cheat those who follow your in-godly teachings. The truth is You don't believe in God full stop.
Maybe its time for you to answer {Revelation 1:7-8} If you refuse too, then Its best for you to close yourself off, from us believers who believe in Christ and God at the same time.

you want me to tell you about rev 1: 7,8, then pls quote and explain rev 1:1,4-6 and heb 1:9.
tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12

you keep on accusing me, yet one, one small prove or fact you cannot provide to surpport your allegations.

brocab look at your explanation of verse 8 again and correct yourself, expecially the question you asked. are you saying it's the father that called himself God ? or Jesus called himself God ?

everyone can now see that you like to lay false accusations hence you could not respond to this:
"STOP LYING BROCAB!, WHERE DID I TELL YOU OR SAY I DONT BELIEVE IN THE WORD?"

you could not provide proof to the above!

brocab:
Christ is alive today as He was back then.{Matthew 28:18-20} "And came and spoke to them saying, All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on Earth, Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, Baptising them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to obverse all things that I have commanded you; and Lo I am with you always, even to the end of the age.

abeg if you want to answer the question, answer it, dnt try to change the topic again. did you see us mentionin if Christ is alive or dead today?

solite3:
i m sori for wasting ur energy .I actually meant Philippians 2:6-8 not 1

yes , I agree with Phil 2: 6-8, now do you agree with the scripture I quoted and the explanations I added?

solite3:
i av addressed the issue of who was talking in Revelation 1,2&3 it is Jesus.as for heb1:9 brocab addressed it before I don' t like going back to things.

again you failed to answer the question: pls quote and explain rev 1:1,4-6 and heb 1:9
pls tell us who is talking in rev 3: 2,12

simple question and you are still talking something else

Hebrews1:9 Thou has loved righteousness, and hated iniquity;therefore God,even thy God,hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
This is in reference to Christ earthly ministry when Christ was anointed with the holy spirit(oil of gladness) without measure everyman that has ever receive the holy spirit was with measure but Christ own was without measure.Just as every man has a God so also Christ as a man has a God. This tells you Christ is a perfect man

Christ was anointed by who ? by his God
who is the God of Christ? The father
you say Christ as a man has a God, pls tell us, Is Christ still a man at this moment? does he still have a God?
awaiting your response

and pls add the quote and your explanation of rev 1:1,4-6 to your reply.
and tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12

oluminnic:
@dolphinheart
You see it is very simple
If what you have issues with me on is trinity and Godhead- they are just terminologies (not even in the bible as I have pointed out earlier)

ok, noted

The point is there is recognition of three personalties, which I think you quite agree with Matt 28:19 The father, the Son and the HS.

point taken

I am not a 'Trinity' preacher but I am a preacher of the 3 recognised personalities of God (who is one) Deuteronomy 6:4. And to some it is called trinity but I really do not care because I am not sent to preach terminologies but the Word of God

confused here sir, personalities of God? dnt get you.

De 6:4“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.
does jehovah have multiple personality?

dolphinheart:
simple requeSt you can't understand, or rather because you understand the implications of the request, you refuse to answer it.

solite3 , pls quote and EXPLAIN reV 1:1,4-6 and heb 1:9
pls tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12.

dnt answer halfway, dnt just quote it. You quote it then you explain what you understand by what is written there!

solite3. These is still pending

solite3:
do you agree to philipians1:6-8? simple yes or no. u n barrister should answer it

yes , I agree with philipians 1:6-8
ill even quote and add some preceeding verses.

King James Version
Php 1:2Grace be unto you, and peace, from FROM GOD OUR FATHER, and FROM the Lord Jesus Christ.

*the scripture tells us that our father is our God, this is in agreement with the scripture statement that WE HAVE ONLY ONE GOD, THE FATHER!, it is also in agreement with jesus statement to Mary found in John 20:17 which says ; "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER, AND TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD."
jesus has a God, Jesus is not the most high.

King James Version
Php 1:6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

*who began the good work and will continue performing it.?
King James Version
Php 2:13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

hope you have read jesus prayer to God in John chapter seventeen

King James Version
Php 1:7Even as it is meet for me to think this of you all, because I have you in my heart; inasmuch as both in my bonds, and in the defence and confirmation of the gospel, ye all are partakers of my grace.
Php 1:8For God is my record, how greatly I long after you all in the bowels of Jesus Christ.

Now solite3, do you agree with the scriptures I posted?, if yes or no , quote those scriptures and offer your own understanding.

King James Version
Php 2:8And being found in fashion as a man, he HUMBLED himself, and BECAME OBEDIENT UNTO DEATH, even the death of the cross.

john 6: 38 King James Bible
For I came down from heaven, NOT TO DO MINE OWN WIL, but THE WILL OF HIM THAT SENT ME.

King James Version
Joh 8:42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; NEITHER CAME I OF MYSELF, BUT HE SENT ME.

King James Version
Mt 26:39And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILT.

King James Version
Joh 5:30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I SEEK NOT MINE OWN WILL, BUT THE WILL OF THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT ME.

THE MOST HIGH DOES NOT DO ANYONES WILL!, Jesus IS DOING THE WILL OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM!
Jesus seeks the will of the one who sent him
Jesus is obedient to the will of the one who sent him
Jesus which the will of the one who sent him to be done, even till death.
that is why Jesus could teach us this prayer

OUR FATHER which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH, AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.

who's will is being done in heaven? The fathers! whose will do we pray for to be done on earth? The fathers.!
Jesus wants the fathers will to be done on earth as it is being done in heaven!

johnw74:
I certainly won't be told what to post by a false jw antichrist who disbelieves much scripture
and who changes much of what the Bible says to suit his satanic doctrines

I did not tell you what to post, neither was the question for you in the first place!.
but if you want to answer a question, answer it completely and truthfully, then quote the person who asked the question so that he knows you are trying to answer his or her question.!

oluminnic:
@dolphinheart
I think I finally know from what point you are coming from.
You have weird view about christianity (and trinity), you are scared of sharing it boldly (for people to criticize) on your own page but yet you need supporters

If you are a Jehovah witness; understand that our bibles are different and our faith, practices and believes are different, so there can never be a common ground.

sir, let's not digress from the discussion, pls do not predetermine my view and even if you do, dnt let it stop it from sharing and explaining yours.
as you can see, ive quoted from the scriptures , which you did not do, if you feel the bible I quoted from is different from yours, why dnt you quote yours and we will examine the differences. cus one fact is certain, if the bibles are different, then one is certainly currupt/not real/ not the actual original word of God.
as at the last time I checked , Jehovahs witnesses are not the authors of the NIV and NLT.
My questions still remains.

solite3:
u will never understand my point until u answer my first question do u agree to philipians 2:6-8 Jesus will n his father's will are the same( to save the world) that answers ur question if Jesus was doing someone else will.

King James Version
Php 2:8And being found in fashion as a man, he HUMBLED himself, and BECAME OBEDIENT UNTO DEATH, even the death of the cross.


john 6: 38 King James Bible
For I came down from heaven, NOT TO DO MINE OWN WIL, but THE WILL OF HIM THAT SENT ME.

King James Version
Joh 8:42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; NEITHER CAME I OF MYSELF, BUT HE SENT ME.

King James Version
Mt 26:39And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless NOT AS I WILL, BUT AS THOU WILT.

King James Version
Joh 5:30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I SEEK NOT MINE OWN WILL, BUT THE WILL OF THE FATHER WHICH HATH SENT ME.


THE MOST HIGH DOES NOT DO ANYONES WILL!, JESUS IS DOING THE WILL OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM!
jesus seeks the will of the one who sent him
jesus is obedient to the will of the one who sent him
jesus which the will of the one who sent him to be done, even till death.

that is why jesus could teach us this prayer

OUR FATHER which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy kingdom come. THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH, AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.
who's will is being done in heaven? The fathers! whose will do we pray for to be done on earth? The fathers.!

Jesus wants the fathers will to be done on earth as it is being done in heaven!

johnw74:
^^^
my understanding is that "the Godhead" is a term used for the fullness of God
the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit
even you must know that, it's been used at these forums often enough

Medics post is a informative post
all you can do is try and derail as if you have never heard the term before



they are known by their fruits, dishonesty, etc etc

you saw the questions, you decided to answer, but you answered half and ignored the other half . pls answer the questions asked

oluminnic:
@dolphinheart
1. Matthew 28:19, 1John 5:7

It would have been better if you had quoted those scriptures.

my question is :
1)Yes Jesus did make mention of the father , the son, and the holy spirit, can you provide the scripture that said they are one?

you provided two scriptures which I will quote

New International Version
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

sir, no where in that verse is it said that the father, son and holy spirit are one!, if I'm wrong pls correct me.
New International Version
1John 5:7
For there are three that testify:
again, that the three are one is not found in these verse, therefore the question still stands

2. My bro, Godhead is a rev just like trinity. Just words used to at least simplify the perspective of the word of God (wisdom) on the personality of God. The truth is we see (understand) in parts for now but when the right time comes we will see the whole truth 1Corinthians 13:9-12

thought you said trinity was a man word to simplify godhead, how is Godhead a revelation just like trinity when trinity cannot be found in the scriptures?
We are discussing on already revealed truth about Godhead.

my question is:
2. where can we find Godhead in the bible, since you said trinity is not there?

you did not quote the verse, but I will quote it here

(niv)
1cor 13: 9-12
For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears.
11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

sir, there is no mention of the word "godhead" here, talk less of talking about it.
question 2 still stands.

3. I am a mere mortal, who am I to know when, how and who about God. The word of God is beyond all humans, too complex for us, but wisdom simplified it for us so that it could be in a form that we can read/hear and comprehend and in the process of doing that, it presented the personality of God to us in three forms but like I wrote earlier, the time is coming when we wouldnt need human language again and then in our new body we will understand all things 1Corinthians 13:9-12

your statement does not have cor elation with the question is asked , the question is :
You made this statement: " Wisdom presented 3 personalities in the Godhead to us in redemption "
this prompted the following question
3. So in the case of trinity, who was taken out of whom? who took it out?
what scripture can one use to surpport the bolded part?


 

As regards the 2 statements on trinity (mine and yours) YES they are not entirely same, but they both recognise the 3 personalities as it is in the scriptures above. Trinity is simply defined as one God in three persons. What you quoted was never the origin of trinity, it was the opinion of that group.

quoting some parts of that webpage that described their own definition of trinity
" While the Fathers of the Church saw even Old Testament elements such as the appearance of three men to Abraham in Book of Genesis, chapter 18, as foreshadowings of the Trinity, [color]it was the New Testament that they saw as a basis for developing the concept of the Trinity.[/color] The most influential of the New Testament texts seen as implying the teaching of the Trinity was Matthew 28:19 , which mandated baptizing "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit". Reflection, proclamation and dialogue led to the formulation of the doctrine that was felt to correspond to the data in the Bible. The simplest outline of the doctrine was formulated in the 4th century, largely in terms of rejection of what was considered not to be consonant with general Christian belief. Further elaboration continued in the succeeding centuries."

now sir, did your own definition/explanation of trinity preceed theirs?, if not, then you are the one who modified their definition and description of the word "trinity". A word which they defined when they formulated it. therefore if you feel there is a need to simplify the term "godhead", dnt you think it will be best to find your own word?

Note, till today, those who formulated that word still hold on to its definition and explanation. Now since your explanation is different from there's as they are not entirely same, is it safe to say that the definition and simplified explanation of the Godhead by those church fathers is wrong?

As regards the vision thing. The bible says he saw the heaven opened, c'mon, you dont need any further explanation, is heaven a door that opens? He simply had a vision, you just need to have experienced one to know. Jesus obeyed God by humbling himself to come to John and God identified with him (His Spirit on him); John saw a vision of the symbolic representation of this. (It takes the supernatural to see the move of God e.g Balaam and his horse)

sir you did not respond to the scripture I quoted.
Secondly, are you saying that Balaam was seeing a vision too?

'God was far away in the OT' In OT, few people can hear from God and tell other but in NT, we dont need anyone to speak to us for we can all hear Him Heb 8:10-13, Joel2:28

I wish you would have quoted those scriptures.
from the scriptures and from your explanation, I still do not see how God was far away in the OT, if few people can hear from God in the OT, it was because few people where needed by God to spread his message. compare the geography of isreal then to the whole world now, how many people does God need then? few!
also compare the population then with that of now, check the ratio and you will see that God send more messages then than now!

as to people saying they hear God, there is no proof!

brocab:
Of course you know these words are from God the Father. And I have quoted {Hebrews 1:1-9} and of course you have refused once again to ignore it.
First we will read {Hebrews 1:8} "But God said unto the Son-your throne O'God is forever and ever, A sceptre of righteousness and a sceptre of the kingdom.
Are you reading it, the Father said to Jesus your throne O'God is forever and ever. Why would God call himself God. if He isn't God?
V 9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.

dnt just quote verse 9, explain it like you did verse 8!

look at your explanation of verse 8 again and correct yourself, expecially the question you asked. are you saying it's the father that called himself God ? or jesus called himself God ?

everyone can now see that you like to lay false accusations hence you could not respond to this:
"STOP LYING BROCAB!, WHERE DID I TELL YOU OR SAY I DONT BELIEVE IN THE WORD?"

I asked you some simple questions about john 1:1 , you could not respond to it

solite3:
dolphineheart d issue was initially about who rev1:8 is referring to before u referred back to revelation1:4 which of course is not the issue.thats y I ignored it. as for who was speaking in revelation1:8 brocab answered rightly.
since u ve brought revelation1:4-6 let's c what it says
vs4 JOHN to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which was, and which is to come(referring to The father);and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne( referring to the Holy Spirit)
vs5 And from Jesus Christ,who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the faithful witness,and the first begotten of the of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
vs6 And hath made is kings and and priest unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever.Amen.
hope I av addressed it. I will c if u will not refer back to rev1:8( which is the main issue n which had been addressed)

simple requeSt you can't understand, or rather because you understand the implications of the request, you refuse to answer it.

solite3 , pls quote and EXPLAIN reV 1:1,4-6 and heb 1:9
pls tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12.

dnt answer halfway, dnt just quote it. You quote it then you explain what you understand by what is written there!

Medicis:
The prologue of John's gospel is an important work within the New Testament, because it provides perhaps the clearest statement of Who Jesus was in spiritual terms. Essentially, John's prologue states that Jesus was God, but it also seeks to explain, to a certain extent, the nature of Jesus' existence and His role within the Godhead.

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:2  He was in the beginning with God.
John 1:3  All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
 

John uses the Greek word logos to describe Jesus "in the beginning," or before creation and time began. Logos means word, but specifically it means the spoken word or a statement. Jesus is God's spoken word, according to John.

John then explains that the Word (Jesus) was "with" God and "was" God. This statement yields two important conclusions regarding Jesus. Jesus is God and existed from the beginning as God, yet Jesus' existence is somehow distinct from God the Father. Jesus was "with" God and "was" God at the same time. This is a mystery as three Persons in the Godhead are One God and yet all are distinct from one another.

Moving to verse 3, John says that it was the Word (Him) that created all things. From this statement, we begin to see why Jesus is called the "Word" by John. Consider these facts we learn from John's Gospel and elsewhere in Scripture:

First, we know from scripture that God the Father is Spirit (John 4:24), meaning He doesn't exist in physical form. So, there is no physical substance to God the Father. The Creation cannot experience the Father as He truly is, since we are bound to a physical dimension yet He is not physical.

Secondly, we know that God's Spirit is likewise invisible (John 3:6-. He can only be known by observing His work in the Creation.

On the other hand, Jesus is the member of the Godhead responsible for all physical matter. As John said, all things were made by and through Jesus. Paul says the same thing in Col 1:15-17. 

More over, Paul teaches in Colossians that Jesus is the "image of the invisible God." Therefore, He is the only Person in the Godhead Who has entered into and become a part of the physical creation. Jesus can be seen in a physical sense, because He is the One Who entered into the Creation and become a part of it (i.e., became incarnate).

Therefore, Jesus is the One within the Godhead Who is associated with Creation, both as its source and as an ambassador of the Godhead to that creation.

Next, consider how the Creation itself was established in Genesis 1. Genesis 1 teaches that the world was created by the spoken word of God (note the repeating phrase in Genesis 1, "Then God said...". So when God the Father determined to created the universe and everything in it, He "spoke" it into existence. But as John said in verse 3, Jesus was the One who made all things, therefore we can say that Jesus was God's logos, or spoken Word.

We can begin to understand this partnership (at least to some degree) by drawing an analogy to how our own thoughts and words reach into the physical word. When we desire to command something to happen in the world around us, we must first conceive the idea in our minds. No one can see our thoughts. They are invisible, yet they certainly exist. Without our thoughts, we could purpose to do nothing at all.

If our thoughts are to become visible in some way, they must move from the invisible realm of our mind and into the physical world. The progression from invisible to visible requires we transfer our invisible thoughts into a spoken command. The brain communicates our thoughts to our mouth where it becomes logos: spoken words.

Once the spoken word leaves our mouth, it enters the physical world and yields its intended effect. This simple analogy helps explain how God the Father worked with God the Son (i.e., the Word) to establish Creation.

This is John's meaning when he says that Jesus is the Word. He meant that Jesus is the physical manifestation of God the Father, just as a spoken word is the physical manifestation of our inner thoughts. Until Jesus took action and created the universe, there was no physical reality to God's presence. But when God "spoke" (i.e., when Jesus took action), the Creation came into existence.

Later, Jesus arrived in Person to meet with His creation, and as Jesus spoke His words to His disciples, He fulfilled the Father's purpose by providing a physical representation of the Godhead to His creation.  Hebrews says it this way:

 
Heb. 1:1  God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
Heb. 1:2  in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
Heb. 1:3  And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power...
 

Paul reiterates this same thought in Colossians when he says:

 
Col. 1:15  He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Col. 1:16  For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
 

Jesus is the Word because He was the means through which the Father brought all physical reality into existence and because He is the One Who represents the Father's invisible nature and character to that creation. Just as your spoken word is the physical manifestation of your thoughts and personality, Jesus is the "Word" of the invisible God to His creation.

abeg , wetin be Godhead!
which scripture mentions, describe and explain what Godhead is?

You replied me, but you can't respond to the scriptures posted to you, you always run from them

brocab:
You still refuse to answer {Revelation 1:7-8} dolphinheart this proves you are a lair and the word of God is not found in you.[/color]
haha, told you to try me na, are you afraid?, if not then tell us your explanation (after quoting it) of rev 1:1,4-6 and heb 1:9, quote and tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12.
After you have done that I'll tell you about rev 1: , 7,8.
pls try and prove me a liar for once by doing the above.

probably in my next post, I'll show you the numerous questions and scriptures you refused to adress and talk about.

[color=#000099]And you say you don't believe in the word, and yet you write {John 1:14} And the word was made flesh, and He lived among us.

STOP LYING BROCAB!, WHERE DID I TELL YOU OR SAY I DONT BELIEVE IN THE WORD?
I did not write john 1:14, I quoted john 1:14, a verse you could not quote in full nor explain.

Lets look at {John 1:1} In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.
This same Word you speak about' lived among us.
But you still have refused to answer the scriptures I have given you 7-8

yes, look at John 1:1 and tell us
does God have a beginning?
how can the the word be with God and then be the same God.?

I have shown you what hebrews 1:1-9 is telling us, using other scriptures to surpport and buttress my point, as always, you failed to respond.

solite3:
u re just trying to shift away from the issue at hand which is WHO WAS SPEAKING IN REVELATION 1 BTW u guys have a very good habit of jumping around topics .dolpineheart I can't keep on quoting verses as this will derail the thread keep to the topic at hand

It is apparent you did not read the thread from the start. I've been consistent in expressing the change in topic everytime.

go back and read the thread again, IT IS NOT ABOUT WHO WAS SPEAKING IN REV 1.

pls solite3,(1) can you in your next post quote and explain rev 1:1,4-6, and heb 1:9.
(2) can you tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12?

I dnt want you to keep on quoting verses, these verses above is the one I want you to quote and explain.

Emusan:
No one is forcing you to respond to any post. Like I care!

Meanwhile, I cut those statements especially the quotations because I'm using my phone not system and not time for unnecessary post.

The summary of my point here are:
1. The Apostles spoke in tongues and everybody hearing them understood what they are saying. Who interpreted it to those people? Not any human being but Holy Spirit Himself. Which means, Holy spirit is the one who gave the utterances as He wants for a purpose.

2. Do the Apostles speak to themselves on that day or edifying themselves? They edifying themselves! That's why no interpreter was needed.

3. 1 Corin 14:2 makes it clear that speaking in tongues sometimes are personal dealing with God which no man will understand.

4. It's evident from Apostle Paul's writings that speaking in tongues to deliver message to the congregation (Just like prophesying, Teaching e.t.c) is different from speaking in tongues personally to commune with God.

Summary of your confusion!

1. Your confusion stems out when you think there is only one type of speaking in tongues which is 'in congregation' that's why you think interpreter MUST always available.

2. Thinking since everyone could understand what the Apostles were saying that day, everyone speaking in tongues today must follow the same pattern forgotten that it is the Holy spirit who gave the utterance as He wills.

3. Inability to distinguish between when someone is edifying him/herself through speaking in tongues which no man understands him/her and when someone is passing a message to the congregation through speaking in tongues.

sir, if you dnt care, pls dnt quote me.
If you want us to discuss, pls dnt cut off my post, expecially the scriptures that surpport my views.
I have no problem with you expressing your views on these thread, but if you want to use my post to express your views, pls find a means in which you will not need to cut part of my post off!

cutting part of my post off is the confusin thing!

[quote author=Molake94 post=45356650][/quote]good to note that you quoted my points and did not cut it or part of it off like some will like to do, but I noticed you did not tell if I'm right or wrong on each of the points and scriptures I posted.

you asked me if I can explain 1 john 5: 7. Ill try to share my views on the verse.

1 john 5:7

New International Version
For there are three that testify:

New Living Translation
So we have these three witnesses--

looking at verse 7 alone does not tell us who the witnesses are and what they are witnessing so ill need to add the preceding verse and the next verse.

NIV
This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.
7 For there are three that testify:
8 the a Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

NLT
And Jesus Christ was revealed as God’s Son by his baptism in water and by shedding his blood on the cross —not by water only, but by water and blood. And the Spirit, who is truth, confirms it with his testimony.
7 So we have these three witnesses
— 8 the Spirit, the water, and the blood—and all three agree.


When Jesus came “into the world,” that is, when he began his ministerial and sacrificial course as God’s Messiah, he came to John the Baptizer to be immersed in water (not in repentance for sins, but in presentation of himself to God, to carry out God’s will for him).
(NIV)
5 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
7 Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’ ”

After this, God’s spirit came down upon him, a testimony that he was God’s Son and the Messiah.
(NIV)
luke 3: 21,22
21 When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened
22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”


.It is the water of his baptism that is in harmony with the blood of his sacrifice and with God’s spirit in unanimously testifying to this great Messianic truth.

It is this testimony that helps to have fAith that Jesus is the son of God as recorded in 1 john 5:5 ,for we know that the testimony of God is greater (1 john 5:9)