₦airaland Forum

brocab:
You should look at you own doctrine, none of it has any meaning to it, your religion is dead. {Revelation 3:1} {Dead man walking}
You haven't the slightest idea about the bible, you don't recognize the word of God, your teachings are from comic books, "Watchtower magazines, pictured cartoons.
Matter of fact the bible frightens you, because you would have to read it without having any pictures to explain to you what your watchtower magazines is telling you..
We have all answered your request-and we are still waiting for you to answer our request, but of course you have chosen to ignore them too.

brocab stop lying.
pls quote and explain rev 1: 1,4-6, heb 1:9

pls tell us who is talking in rev 3: 2,12

brocab:
And if I am the chief of all lairs, then why would anybody take me seriously, listen I am not interested in your request, just do the right thing and answer my question, who do you believe who is, who was, and who is to come? Because you have chosen to ignored 7-8 this proves to us viewers, you are a lair, and the word of God is not in you.

imagine , I accused you of lying and you can't defend yourself , you can't show prove where I asked you to tell who is talking in all the verses. These shows that my accusations are true!

you try to accuse me of lying based on what I have not done, who does that!
I have not ignored your request, I told you pages ago What will make me tell you what rev 1: 7,8 is saying, and I kept on repeating that.

When you first talked about rev1: 7,8 , you made some false statement regarding those verses, there is the need for me to make you use your own words to establish that your statement are false first. hence I asked you to qoute and explain(using your own words) what you understand by what is recorded in rev 1: 1,4-6 and heb 1:9, also that you tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12.
you have vehemently refused to quote and explain these verses up till now, simply because you know that quoting and explaining them will expose you as a propagator of false teachings.

there are lots of scriptures that have accumulated, lots of questions pending, all of which you ignored,refusing to even quote and explain them, yet you feel you can accuse me of not responding to the scriptures you quoted.

You haven't the slightest Idea how to Answer {Revelation 1:4} Nor can you Answer 1:7-8 because these verses points it out clearly what the JW's believe-Jehovah God is Jesus in person.

try me na, fulfill my request on these issue and see if I wunt answer you!

{Hebrews 1:5-9} In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets, V 2 But in these last day's He had spoken to us by His Son.
Are you learning the word of God yet? And again you would like me to answer them for you, {God's speaking} but the verses from 5-8 should be more of an interest to you. Archangels nor Angels were never made as men, only spirits.

you might be confused about which verse you are quoting, but I will help you out, you quoted heb 1:1 and 2

brocab, I'll not only quote those verses, I'll attach surportin scriptures for you to understand better.
King James Version
Heb 1:1 and 2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2. Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Paul said that God had in times past spoken to mankind through the prophets, this can also be seen in jer 7:25
King James Version
Since the day that your fathers came forth out of the land of Egypt unto this day I have even sent unto you all my servants the prophets, daily rising up early and sending them:

Verse 28 tells us who the God that has been sending prophets to the isrealites is
Jer 7:28And you will say to them, ‘This is the nation that did not obey the voice of Jehovah their God and refused to accept discipline. Faithfulness has perished and is not even mentioned among them.’
* could not quote the kjv cus it has removed God's name from that verse

so in heb 1: 1, Paul was talking about jehovah god.
Paul now says in verse two that jehovah now spoke to us by his Son, and this son he had appointed as heir to all things.
theseveral two verses are clear indications that jehovah/God and the Son/jesus are not the same person. The person who appointed and the person being appointed are not the same person. therefore , God and Jesus are not the same person!

Mt 17:5While he was still speaking, look! a bright cloud overshadowed them, and look! a voice out of the cloud said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him.”

King James Version
1Co 8:6But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

The Amplified bible, {Hebrews 1:1-9 } says it like this.
V 5-For to which of the angels did the Father ever say, "You are My Son, Today I have begotten {Fathered} You, [Established You as a Son, with kindly dignity]?
And again [did He ever say to the angels] "I shall be a Father to Him, and He shall be a Son to Me"?

answer: jesus!

Ps 2:2,6,7
The kings of the earth take their stand And high officials gather together as one Against Jehovah and against his anointed one.
6. Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain
7. Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: “You are my son; Today I have become your father.

King James Version
Ro 1:4And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

King James Version
2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
2Pe 1:17For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

V 6 And when He again brings the First born, [Highest-ranking Son] into the world, He says, "And all the Angels of God are to worship Him".

You can see again that Jesus is not jehovah, Jesus is not the God Paul was talking about, Jesus is the first born of God !

King James Version
Joh 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Ro 8:29because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

King James Version
Col 1:15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

V 7 And concerning the Angels He says, "Who makes the Angels winds, "And His Ministering servants flames of fire. [To do His bidding]."
V 8 But about the Son [the Father says to Him]
"Your throne O God, is forever and ever, And the Scepter of [obsolete] Righteousness is the Scepter of His Kingdom.
V 9 You have Loved righteousness [integrity, Virtue, uprightness, in purpose] And have hated lawlessness [injustice sin] THEREFORE YOUR GOD HAS ANOINTED YOU. With the oil of gladness above your COMPANION.
The Amplified bible has its ways to fully explain the words, do you agree?

did you see the capitalised words? did you explain it? if not pls do.
does jesus have a God?

[b]Mt 28:18Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.

Re 3:21To the one who conquers I will grant to sit down with me on my throne, just as I conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Isa 61:1The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me, Because Jehovah anointed me to declare good news to the meek. He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners,

Lu 3:21, 22Now when all the people were baptized, Jesus too was baptized. As he was praying, the heaven was opened up,22and the holy spirit in bodily form like a dove came down upon him, and a voice came out of heaven: “You are my Son, the beloved; I have approved you.”

Lu 4:18“Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free,

Ps 45:6, 7God is your throne forever and ever; The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness.7You loved righteousness, and you hated wickedness. That is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your companions.[/b]

Jesus is the son of God , the firstborn. He was sent by God to save mankind , he was anointed above his companions. Jesus has a God that anointed him, that God is his father who he said sent him, who he said is the only true god, who he said is our God!

the question to you brocab, who are jesus companions?

solite3:
i can't quote the whole bible,i av given u enough bible verse to help u out bt u ignored it.u av realised d truth bt u re just playing to d gallery. u av now known who is talking in vs 11 and the voice addressed himself as Alpha n omega.tank God u av agreed who was speaking.

readers should note that the above is another way to say, "I can't quote and explain those scriptures cus they scare me and will prove my doctrines wrong!

I did not ask you to quote the whole bible.
I've already proved my allegation of you being prone to making false allegations without adding proof, you are still repeating that bad trait .

brocab:
I am waiting for you, to give me a pad on the back-it has taken you all this time to understand the scriptures, and finely you agree?
Stop giving me the small talk, everyone in their right mind could see I had added Jesus name Only because you had asked me to tell you' who is Speaking in each of the verses. so I did' and or I heard from you, was winch, because I added Jesus name in comer's.
{Revelation 3:2-12} If this isn't Jesus talking' then who is?
Plus I need to here it from you-Who do you say' who is and who was and who is to come? Do you also believe the Alpha and the Omega is another person too?

YOU ARE NOT ONLY A LIAR , YOU ARE CHIEF OF LIARS.
where did I tell you to tell us who is talking each of the verses!?

Here is my request again brocab:
pls quote and then explain the following scriptures
rev 1: 1,4-6
heb 1:9

pls tell us who is talking in rev 3: 2,12

you have not done this, you think splitting the verses into different comments will help you, it will not!

Emusan:
Honestly, with this your post I can truly see your confusion.



Imaging IT did something....can inanimate do something? Anyway that's not the talk for today.

No! You can't tall about result without talking about CAUSE. The point here is, it's the Holy Spirit's WILL thats why people can understand them without the means of INTERPRETER.



So who interpret the tongues speaking by the Apostles on the day of Pentecost?



Like I said that's how Holy spirit wants it because according to the blessed Apostle Paul we know that someone can even speak in the tongues of angels.



Then you only focus on speaking in tongues in the congregation when you didn't bother to ask were those speaking in tongues delivering message to the congregation or edifying themselves?

I still truly want to know the interpreter of the day of Pentecost.



Does the speaker tell you s/he is delivering message to the congregation or edifying him/herself?



You didn't address the verse you only succeeded in giving your own interpretation to divert from the actual meaning of that verse.



That's not what the verse is saying.



I agree with you because i was just imaging if Holy spirit inspired somebody in Australia's congregation to speak my village language whereby the whole congregation are Australians, interpreter is also needed but what if the person only edifying his/herself? No interpretation is needed.



So nobody actually interpreted it but Holy spirit Himself provided the interpretation. That's why I'll repeat it that you people didn't fully understand what actually happened on the day of Pentecost. Whereas, the Bible made it clear that "everybody was hearing them in their OWN NATIVE language AS The Spirit gave them the utterance."

In conclusion, speaking in tongues is not a pattern rather AS THE SPIRIT GAVE THE UTTERANCE.

I initially did not want to respond to this post, but I decided to share why I have reservations about responding.
I dnt like it when someone deliberately cut part of my post off in his or her response to my post.,
if you want me to respond to you, pls dnt cut part of my explanations off to make it look weak, expecially not the scriptures I quoted to surpport it.
You can correct this anomaly by goING back to my previous post, qoute it, but leaving my words intact and complete!

johnw74:
^^^
all of that confusion, and copy cat accusing, falsely saying things to me that I honestly said to you
and adressing many things that have nothing to do with Jesus being God
althought with your lack of understanding I know you think they do

when one cannot respond to scriptural truths posted, but desperately wants to hold on to his false beliefs, such one acts the way you do. You will always show blindness to the scriptures which prove your doctrines wrong, you will never respond to them nor quote them, you prefer to keep on quoting words which you think surpports your doctrine, but during examination we find it does not.
your beliefs contradict the scriptures, unlike you who does nOT respond to scriptural truths, I will respond to your scriptures, I wunt cut part of your posts away and I wunt act as if I did not see it.

You know that I don't have discussions with non believers
but if time permits in a day or two I will show how ridiculous your long post is

when one sees the scriptures posted to you, and the fact that you cannot quote them or respond to them , they wunt blame you for your response, it's a last resort at avoiding the scriptures that have been posted to you, expecially when those scriptures are accompanied with unanswerable questions.

In the mean time here are more scriptres showing that Jesus is God which you can disbelieve and twist around:

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Thomas called Jesus "God", false jw would say "my Lord and my angel"

Thomas made an exclamation when realisation came upon him, he exclaimed " my Lord and my god" when he realised that indeed, Jesus had been resurrected. Thomas words was no different that what people do in modern times when something suprising or some news gets to them, they say " oh my god". This exclamation does not mean that the person who maDe them say such words is their God.

several translations show this exclamation and several say Thomas exclaimed here are a few belowyou can check the translations yourself, not twisting, no additions or subtraction)

New International Version
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"
New Living Translation
"My Lord and my God!" Thomas exclaimed.
English Standard Version
Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
Berean Study Bible
Thomas replied, "My Lord and my God!"
Berean Literal Bible
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
New American Standard Bible
Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
Holman Christian Standard Bible
Thomas responded to Him, "My Lord and my God!"
International Standard Version
Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"
NET Bible
Thomas replied to him, "My Lord and my God!"
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And Thomas answered and said to him, “My Lord, and my God.”
GOD'S WORD® Translation
Thomas responded to Jesus, "My Lord and my God!"
New American Standard 1977
Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
Weymouth New Testament
"My Lord and my God!" replied Thomas.
World English Bible
Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

Thomas was not answering jesus on any question about his divinity.
There are two other reasons why Thomas would not have called jesus God.
1. Thomas was with jesus during the ministry, he must have heard when Jesus called himself , son of God , and never will he have heard jesus call himself God . moreover , when Jesus asked the disciples who he is it was recorded thus :
King James Version
Mt 16:15,16
15.He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16.And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD.
how could Thomas, having heard this now call jesus his God?

2. Secondly, prior to this event, Jesus Himself having been resurrected, send Mary to his disciples(Thomas inclusive) with this words below:
King James Version
Joh 20:17,18
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHEF, AND YOUR FATHER; AND TO MY GOD AND YOUR GOD.
18Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

I wonder how you could read the above and them a few verses later you think Thomas did nOT hear jesus own words and then called jesus his God, when he had just been told what he knew all his life, that the father is his God.

After The Father through John, showed that Jesus Christ is not an angel in earlier verses,
He then showed that like Him, Jesus Christ is God:
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

you are quick to see this verse , but your eyes go blind when reading the next verse, in fact one suprising thing occurs , you dnt see the verse at all, you can't quote it, it dissappear from your view.
I've told you that Jesus is called a God, but he has a God that is superior to him, mostimes when you are being asked if jesus has a God that he is subjected to , you refuse to answer.
Jesus told his disciples that he has a covenant with God for a kingdom.
what does the next verse, verse 9(a verse you refused to quote) say:
King James Version
Heb 1:9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; THEREFORE GOD, EVEN THY GOD, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
so despite jesus being called a god, he is still subjected and loyal to a superior God, the only true god, his father jehovah! do you understand?

Baptising in the name of God:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

johnw74, pls do not add lies to your views . where did you see jesus telling them to baptise in the name of God? , pls do not draw conclusive statement from opinions or derived analogy.

Three persons, one God:
1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

I believe I've once shown you that the bolded part of those texts are not found in the manuscripts in which the bible was translated. and in the copies in which they are found, they are discovered to be scribal additions. you are fond of using scripture text that have been discovered to be false additions to defend your doctrine.
so no need to discuss the bolded part cus it does not exist in the most original and reliable manuscripts.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

yep, just as a husband and wife will become one flesh, it still does not make then one human, being one was in relation to their unity, the husband is still the head
just as the disciples will become one with jesus and God does not make them god.
There jesus beING one with the father does not make him God!

the father is greater than I am, Jesus says
King James Version
1Co 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
the Greek for Lord is "Kurios" meaning God.
or, Hear O Israel; God our God is one God

yes, we know who our God is, Jesus said he is the only true God.
The God of isreal is Jehovah
our God is also the God of jesus
our God is the almighty God !
De 6:4, 5“Listen, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.5You must love Jehovah your God with all your heart and all your soul and all your strength.

Jos 22:5Only be very careful to carry out the commandment and the Law that Moses the servant of Jehovah gave you, by loving Jehovah your God, by walking in all his ways, by keeping his commandments, by sticking to him, and by serving him with all your heart and with all your soul.”

Mt 22:37He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’

Lu 10:27In answer he said: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole strength and with your whole mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

I've commented on these scripture, you fail to respond to it.
I have a friend called "oluwapelumi", going by your warped ideology , my friend is actually the oluwa of the yoruba people.

The immunu el that isaiah prophecied initially was actually God too?
you search for scriptures that seem to surpport your views, you use it without knowing the implications, when the implications are shown to you, you can't respond again.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

God is one
The Father and the Word is God

I have responded to this scriptures several times, anytime I respond, you refuse to talk about it, only for you to post the verse again.

"In the begginING was the word", does God have a beginning.
" the word was with god" pls explain.

God purchased the church with His own blood:
Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

false jw dolphinheart would say:
to feed the church of a god, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
to feed the church of an angel, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

you are now trying to predict my response, wow!

johnw74, it is always good to study the Bible, it is also good to make sure of what the Bible you are quoting is really saying.

is it the blood of God that was used for our purchasing or the blood of Jesus.?

[b]King James Version
1Jo 1:5-7
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
7. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ HIS SON cleanseth us from all sin.

Does act 20: 28 now indicate jesus is the God in 1 john 1:5 ? no ooooo!
jesus is the son of God , gods own Son,.

The footnote of some Translations read
(NIV)
Footnotes:
a. Acts 20:28 Many manuscripts of the Lord
b. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his own Son.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+20:28&version=NIV

(ESV)
Footnotes:
a. Acts 20:28 Some manuscripts of the Lord
b. Acts 20:28 Or with the blood of his Own
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+20:28&version=ESV

Acts 20:28 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God which he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
Footnotes:
a. Acts 20:28 Other ancient authorities read of the Lord
b. Acts 20:28 Greek with the blood of his Own or with his own blood

Acts 20:28 New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)
Keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock, of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God that he obtained with the blood of his own Son.
Footnotes:
a. Acts 20:28 Other ancient authorities read of the Lord
b. Acts 20:28 Or with his own blood ; Gk with the blood of his Own
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+20:28&version=NRSVA

when you read the scriptures you understand better. You will know if God did send his son or if he sent himself to be a man.
King James Version
Re 1:5,6 - And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
:6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

King James Version
Joh 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I sincerely pray that you read and respond to this scriptures I've posted to you.




readers can check this out: onlytruegod.org/defense/acts20.28.htm

brocab:
O Shame on you dolhpinheart, are you ramping and raging because I had added Jesus's name only because I don't really believe you know who is and who was, and who is coming.
So I was just pointing it out to you who the verse is referring too, {Revelation 1:4} Grace and peace from Him, who is who was, and who is to come, this scripture is talking about {Jesus}
But as usual you have turned yourself up side down, dolhpinheart are you really this dumb, that not even you can see your argument really isn't going places. You are using everything you can find, but listen you can't beat the word of God, the word had already won the victory.

So now you admit that you added "jesus" to the verse earlier, good mission accomplished!,

now is the person who was, who is and who is to come jesus Christ!? no ooooo ooooo!

you know this , that's why you refused to quote the next two verses, even after you had been asked several times, you decided to lie that you have quoted and explained verse 6

rev 1:4-6
4 John, To the seven churches in the province of Asia:
Grace and peace to you FROM him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and FROM the seven spirits before his throne,
5 and FROM Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood,
6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve HIS GOD AND FATHER —to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

brocab, explain those greetings of John to us pls, tell us who those greetings are FROM!, do not shorten these and try to identify only one of them!

If you are able to, pls take your time and explain verse 6!

also tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12

solite3:
Back to the question raised by dolphinheart who was talking in revelation 1:8. let scripture interpret scripture
vs8 I am alpha and omega, the beginning and the ending,saith the Lord, which is, and which was,and which is to come the Almighty.
vs10&12 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me A GREAT VOICE, as of a trumpet,
vs 11 saying, I am Alpha and Omega,the first and the last:and,what thou seest, write in a book and send it unto Ephesus and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos , and untoThyatira, and unto Sardis and unto Philadelphia and unto Laodicea
vs12 AND I TURNED TO SEE THE VOICE THAT SPAKE WITH ME.(guess who he saw?)And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
vs 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks ONE LIKE UNTO THE SON OF MAN,clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.

pls quote and explain rev 1:1,4-6
pls quote and explain heb 1:9
pls tell us who is talking in rev 3: 2,12

they are an integral part of understanding rev 1:7,8

Emusan:
This is my reply to someone's post above which is a gross misunderstanding of what actually happened on the day of Pentecost.

This is the main part you people always miss, everybody was hearing them in their OWN NATIVE language [size=14pt]AS The Spirit gave them the utterance.[/size] You people always miss the fact that it was HOW & WHAT The Holy Spirit wants them to speak THAT they will speak, it's not a PATTERN forever and this is an evident that The Holy Spirit has A WILL.

King James Version
Ac 2:4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

what was the result of the utterances that the holy spirit gave them?
King James Version
Ac 2:6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Ac 2:7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Ac 2:8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Ac 2:9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
Ac 2:10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
Ac 2:11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Emusan , on this thread, it's the result we are talking about, not the cause. watHever the holy spirit did or hoW it did it, people could understand the language of those speaking in tongues. They even mentioned some of those languages.
can that be said about those who speak in tongues today!

Does it come to your understanding that what Apostle Paul was talking about there, is passing a message to the congregation?

Infact Apostle Paul said "For he that speaketh in an UNKNOWN TONGUES speaketh not unto men, but unto God: [size=14pt]for NO MAN UNDERSTANDETH HIM;[/size] howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1Corin 14:2

Things to notice here:
1. The language is an UNKNOWN TONGUES
2. The speaker speaks not UNTO MEN but God
3. NO MAN UNDERSTANDS the speaker but you people ALWAYS PROVE that the speaker supposed to be understood every time).

My emphasis is on point 3 'NO MAN UNDERSTANDS HIM' please if what happened on the day of Pentecost is a PATTERN everyone speaking in tongues must follow why would Apostle Paul here say again that NO MAN UNDERSTANDETH HIM?

Remember, everyone (ALL MEN) in that place understood what the Apostles were saying as you stated in your post.

Paul was giving a guideline as to how the congregation adress speaking in tongues among them.

let's look at the scriptures again:
King James Version
1Co 14:5I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

*how many times do you see interpretations alongside those that speak in tongues in churches nowadays

[b]King James Version
1Co 14:7And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:9So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.

King James Version
1Co 14:11Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

*This is the consequence of speaking and those around you not understanding what you are saying

1 cor 14: 13-19 (ESV)
13 Therefore, one who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret.
14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful. 15 What am I to do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will pray with my mind also; I will sing praise with my spirit, but I will sing with my mind also.
16 Otherwise, if you give thanks with your spirit, how can anyone in the position of an outsider say “Amen” to your thanksgiving when he does not know what you are saying?
17 For you may be giving thanks well enough, but the other person is not being built up.
18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

with the above in mind, he gave the congregation this guidelines:

[b]1 cor 14: 23-28, 33, 40
So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and inquirers or unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?
24 But if an unbeliever or an inquirer comes in while everyone is prophesying, they are convicted of sin and are brought under judgment by all,
25 as the secrets of their hearts are laid bare. So they will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, “God is really among you!”
26 What then shall we say, brothers and sisters? When you come together, each of you has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. Everything must be done so that the church may be built up.
27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret.
28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should KEEP QUIET in the church and speak to himself and to God.
33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.[/b]


1Co 14:40 says "Let all things be done decently and in order.", but some churches will like disorder and let outsiders think they are out of their mind, they even propagate this abackradabra on loud speakers and on TV!

now Emusan, does your church follow Pauls guidelines when speaking in tongues in the congregation.?
is their an interpreter ?
does the speaker keep quiet when their is no interpreter?


now as to the verse you quoted
King James Version
1Co 14:2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

if you speak in a language that is not understood by men, e.g speaking in swahilI to people that only understand yoruba. They will not understand you despite that you are speaking in tongue with the Holy spirit!, that is why in the congregation, an interpreter of the language you are speaking in tongue with is needed, so that you wunt be termed a babar Ian!



All men understood what the Apostles where saying based on their respective languages.

Barristter07:
I count it worthy to reply ur post above.

lets proceed...

solite3 , I personally belive you can convince me or prove that Jesus is Jehovah God if u can tell me your opinion regarding Jehovah at psalm 83:18


That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high
over all the earth. (KJV)


ñote that Jehovah is called " THE MOST HIGH"

Is Jesus the Most High ?

gbaM!

now let's watch his response in 3D

solite3:
u want people to keep on explaining scriptures while u keep on rejecting it n asking endless n meaningless questions. ur problem is u re so proud n cannot accept scripture as it is.Jesus is Jehovah God to deny this ur organisation must go ahead to deny tons of other verses, add or change, twist or remove it totally.

Well readers have now been giving prove that you cannot quote and explain the scriptures shown to you.

brocab:
I had quoted two scriptures, and you again are accusing me and making false accusations against me, and your demands are jumping too and fro, all I had asked was for you to answer these two scriptures at the beginning, dolhpinheart calm down, your blood is boiling over the top.
I have answered {Revelation 1:6} many times over, and of course once again you have denied explaining the two verses of {Revelation 1:7-8} I can understand these two have hit you like a bullet, and of course you are trying to take our viewers away from these two scriptures that's written.
Listen if you don't know, just say so? I not expecting rocket science to answer this question for you.
As I had said Jesus had a Father, and the Father had a Son, but why did the JW's write Jehovah God is the Alpha and the Omega the beginning and the end, the first and the last, who is, who was, and who is to come, I was dead, and look I am alive forevermore, instead of Jesus? Does this mean the JW's believe that Jesus could be God in person?
Can someone' other then dolhpinheart answer this question? Is there a JW out there, who knows any of the scriptures that's written in your bible? And why was it written in your bible if you believe otherwise.

YOU ARE A LIAR BROCAB. PROVE ME WRONG BY SHOWING US WHERE YOU QUOTED AND EXPLAINED REV 1:6.

Pls quote and explain rev 1:1, 4-6.
pls tell us who is talking in rev 3:2,12
pls explain heb 1:9

You quoted 2 verses out of how many? you are not even ashamed that you left it at just quoting, you could not explain.

I've promised to explain rev 1:7,8 to you once you can do this, cus understanding those scriptures is integral to the explanation.

I've I've shown you prove of my allegations against you, you could not prove it wrong that's why you refused to quote my post.
you added the word "jesus" in the middle of a verse, but when asked about the verse, you removed the word when quoting the verse again. If you are sure of your addition , you would have left it their when quoting that verse again.

why did you remove the word "jesus" you added earlier, cus the next two verses shows you are wrong to have added it. This fact you can't disprove!

cooltobex:
Hi. What point are you trying to make? Could you explain and not mislead people who may not understand, especially considering what the person you quoted posted?
Are you implying that speaking in a tongue only God understands is futile? Thank you.

sir, the disciples words on speaking in tongues are self explanatory.
when the disciples first spoke in tongues, it was said that the people who saw them do it where able to understand them!
can that be applied to the speaking in tongue of today? hope you will answer.

later when the apostles was talking about speaking in tongue in a congregation(church), he specified guidelines to be followed, do you follow it those guidelines today?

look at the op's , does it go along with the apostles guidelines.?

Keep on revealing to people who you really are.
IVE JUST SHOW YOU WHAT 1 TIMOTHY 3:16 SAID, I showed you that the word "God " is not in the best original and oldest manuscripts. I should you that the scholars have found out that the word "God" in that verse is either a scribal error or a deliberate addition by your for father's who wanted to add to the scriptures so as to surpport your false doctrine.
you hold on desperately to a translations that came from currup ted texts. why!.

Do you think your ways will not go unnoticed?, if there are points you can't respond to, which exposes your false beliefs, you try to cut it off, you dnt respond to it, and remove it from the post you are responding to, johnw74 this is not good!

here, read this:
* people will notice if you cut it off in your response

[b]Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the photographic facsimile volume published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC " God was manifested in the flesh," employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation. However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line. Tregelles writes, "The ink in which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent application" ( An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854). Without these marks, the manuscript originally read ΟC " He who was manifested in the flesh." In the photograph below the ΘC in 3:16 is circled. Further down, in verse 4:3, there is another
ΘC circled for comparison. Click on the circled areas for a larger view.[/b]

www.bible-researcher.com/alexandrinus4.html


[b]Scholars commenting on 1 Timothy 3:16........

2. Anthony Buzzard:
“ Another example of a text which was altered is 1 Timothy 3:16 . This verse reads in the KJV: “God was manifested in the flesh .” Modern versions have corrected the word “God” to “He who.” The alteration of an original “He who” (in Greek Oj) was very sneakily accomplished when some scribes changed the O (omicron) into a q (theta) giving qj (theta sigma). The reading THS was an abbreviated form of the Greek word theos, God. All that had to be done was to draw a little line across the middle of the O to produce the Greek letter theta (q). Then the text was made to sound Trinitarian and to support the Incarnation: “God was manifested in the flesh.” “He who” (O j) was made to read “God” (qj).”......

4. Bart D. Ehrman:
“The passage in question, 1 Tim. 3:16, had long been used by advocates of orthodox theology to support the view that the New Testament itself calls Jesus God. For the text, in most manuscripts, refers to Christ as “God made manifest in the flesh, and justified in the Spirit.” As I pointed out in chapter 3, most manuscripts abbreviate sacred names (the socalled nomina sacra), and that is the case here as well, where the Greek word God (QEOS) is abbreviated in two letters, theta and sigma (QS), with a line drawn over the top to indicate that it is an abbreviation. What Wettstein noticed in examining Codex Alexandrinus was that the line over the top had been drawn in a different ink from the surrounding words, and so appeared to be from a later hand (i.e., written by a later scribe). Moreover, the horizontal line in the middle of the first letter, Q, was not actually a part of the letter but was a line that had bled through from the other side of the old vellum. In other words, rather than being the abbreviation (thetasigma) For “God” (QS), the word was actually an omicron and a sigma (OS), a different word altogether, which simply means ‘who .’ The original reading of the manuscript thus did not speak of Christ as ‘God made manifest in the flesh’ but of Christ “who was made manifest in the flesh.” According to the ancient testimony of the Codex Alexandrinus, Christ is no longer explicitly called God in this passage.”........

5. Johann Jakob Griesbach:
“ This reading OS, is supported by most ancient witnesses of all classes [manuscripts, versions, and Fathers] and it is recommended also, by its internal indications of truth. On the contrary, the Vulgate Theos, was neither the primitive reading of the Alexandrine, nor of the Western recension: and further, it cannot be defended by arguments drawn from nature [or goodness] of the reading itself; but it is supported only by a number of manuscripts of a later date, belonging chiefly to the Constantinopolitan recension; and by the dubious credit to the more modern Greek Fathers; and could not be found in any monument of antiquity, prior to the close of the fourth century.”.....


8. Richard N. Longenecker:
“Passages in Paul where theos is employed of Christ are lacking. The appeal to 1 Timothy 3: 16 is undoubtedly illegitimate , for the reading ‘who (Oc) was manifested in the flesh’ has much stronger textual support than ‘God (theos) was manifested in flesh .’”


11. Bruce M. Metzger
The evidences presented agree that 1 Timothy 3:16 does not say “God was manifest in flesh”, instead “He was manifest in flesh.” It was due to a scribe that the Greek word “OC” was changed into “theos.” Majority of the experts further showed that in the earliest manuscripts they have available, it does not read God (theos) but “he”, “who” or “which.”[/b]

https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/07/29/1-timothy-316-did-god-become-manifest-in-flesh/

johnw74:
I'm not answering this post for the unbeliveing false j witness
but for the benefit of any who wan't to know.

yes, people now know you dnt respond to THE POST, YOU RESPOND TO PART OF THE POST YOU FEEL YOU CAN TALK ABOUT AND IGNORE SCRIPTURES THAT EXPOSE YOU.

Jesus Christ being God in the flesh is not false doctrine as christians know
however we also see that Jesus Christ being "a angel" "a god" certinally is a false doctrine

when the angel came to meet Mary, did he tell her she will give birth to God? no ooooo!
This is what he told her:
luke 1:31,32,35(kjv)

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

did the angel call jesus the highest? Noo! he called jesus "son of the highest"
did the angel call jesus God ? noo!, he called jesus son of God!

when Jesus grew up, did he call himself God ? no ooooo!

This is what he said :
King James Version
Joh 10:36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

did the disciples call jesus God !Noo ooooo,
this is what they said:

King James Version
Mt 16:16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

who did God say he sent, himself? no ooooo!
This is what the scriptures says:
[color=blue] King James Version
Joh 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

you dnt follow what God said
you dnt follow what jesus said
you don't follow what the the disciples said
you don't follow what the scriptures said
you follow part of the scriptures that has been corrected by man but has been retired and proven to be false.

listen to jesus words :
King James Version
Joh 17:3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

the KJV and Interlinear Bibles are not corrupt as false j witness say

In the Strongs Greek, the word is "theos" God
In the Interlinear it is "Hos" which is also God

You like to use the word "he"
that word "he" is referring to God, which you cannot see

you have been shown that the Greek word "theos does not exist in that verse, you now want to defend it with the definition of theos, Haba!

Most know that the Father is God
but not many know Jesus Christ is God

So we have two persons in God.
God is two persons.
Unfortunately for your doctrine, the scriptures has shown these two persons interacting and this is what it says.

King James Version
Heb 1:9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
do you agree that Jesus has a God?
who are jesus companions?
*people should note if he will answer

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

Him in verse 1 is referring to the Father-God

the him's and he's in verses 2-5 are also referring to God, because no one else is mentioned but God

is jesus the father ? no

your failure to respond to scriptures that explains those verses show your intentions, which is to believe your man made views and ignore the scriptures.
go and read
1. John 3:16
2. John 1:12,13
3. John 17: 25
read the scriptures I quoted to you earlier, that the father, who is mentioned as God in verse one does not mean that all those involved with the changing of God's servant to heirs are God too.

if you had read the scriptures quoted to you, you would have known better
King James Version
Eph 1:3[u]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,[/u] who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
Eph 1:5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

The Father and the Word is "God"
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"he" that was manifested in the flesh is God

God is one
The Father and the Word is God

pls explain, how can someone be with another person and still be that same person?
does God have a beginning?


I hope you read God's and know this
King James Version
Eph 1:17[u]That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory,[/u] may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him

I strongly hope you get the knowledge of the father who Jesus said is the only true, add that to the knowledge of Jesus Christ who was sent by God, and you might gain evalasting life- John 17:3

Noo ooooo ooooo! He is the Son, duh

are you trying to make a joke or what?

The Son being an heir to all that is the Fathers doesn't make Him not God
me being an heir to all that is my fathers does not make me not human like he is, duh again

wow!
see explanation!
my father is human, thus I am a human , my father made me human.
apply these context to jesus.

see already how the confusion clearly still lies with you.

The great mystery of godliness is that "God" was manifested in the flesh to be Saviour of the World
false j witness say that "an angel" "a god" was manifested to be Saviour of the World

Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

God with us, not angel or a god with us

therefore the first occurence of that name means jesus came during the time of isaiah abi? when will you stop this!
bearing " God with us" does not mean the bearer is God!
jesus could bear that name cus he is a perfect representation of his father, the only true God. Jesus is not the one who he represents sir!

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

How can Jesus Christ name be called "The everlasting Father"
A. because The Father and the Son are one:
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

yes, Jesus shall be called mighty God, but jesus still has a God he is subjected to! true or false?
yes jesus is mighty God , but another God anointed him above his companions!
true or false
yes jesus is mighty God , but he told us he has a God, he told us who that God is and he told us that that his God is our own God too!
true of false
yes jesus is mighty God, but he was sent by someone superior and he remained subjected to the will of that one till he died!
true or false.
yes jesus is God, but he is not the most high God ,he sat at the right side of the most high!
true or false.
yes, Jesus is mighty God, but he is not the almighty God!
true or false?
who is the almighty God ? The father, the only true god, Jehovah!
King James Version
Ps 83:18That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
King James Version
Joh 14:28Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.



EVALASTING FATHER
Is jesus the father? no
how come is jesus now going to be called evalasting father.

We have the privilege of gaining eternal life through him, he will be called our eternal father!

who will help accomplish all these, his God and Father, Jehovah!
Isa 9:7To the increase of his rulership And to peace, there will be no end, On the throne of David and on his kingdom In order to establish it firmly and to sustain it Through justice and righteousness, From now on and forever. The zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this.

You keep complaining that an angel can't be a god , yet the scriptures call humans as gods
Ps 82:6(kjv)
I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
read this :
King James Version
2Co 4:4In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

therefore johnw74, go and do your research well, Jesus is a mighty God, but he has a God superior to him, the almighty God , who he called the only true god , the father, his God , our God .

This is why the disciples could say these
King James Version
1Co 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

King James Version
1Pe 1:3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

God is one
The Father and the Word is God
"a god" or "an angel" is not, and cannot, be called "The everlasting Father"
only God can be called that.

Two persons in those verses, one God.
I won't bring the Holy spirit into it
the thread is about Jesus being God.

a husband and wife will become one, it does not make them one human, it does not make the wife the husband, it does not make her equal to the husband.

the disciples will be one with jesus and God, when they gain a divine body, it does not make them god, it does not make them equal to God.

Jesus is one with the father, it does not make him equal to the father.

brocab:
Dolpinheart you can't find {Revelation 1:4} written in your bible?
John" to the seven Churches which are in Asia. Grace to you and peace from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne.

brocab, when will you stop lying!, you refused to quote me cus you know you can't respond to the scriptures shown to you. solite3 refuses to do so too, yet you both keep claiming you know the scriptures!

can you see what you did above, because you know you had been found wanting, proven to be false, you now removed the words you added when you quoted rev 1:4 earlier.

This was your quote before I asked the question

{4} John" to be the seven assemblies {Churches} that are in Asia; Grace to you and Peace, from Him {Jesus} who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne;

now, why did you remove "jesus" when quoting the verse again

John" to the seven Churches which are in Asia. Grace to you and peace from Him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne.

you wanted to try and use subtle lies and additions to try change who that verse is talking about. But after quoting verse 5 and 6 for you, you realised that you are wrong, but instead of admitting, you decided to remove the wrong additions you made to the verse while acting as if you never made those additions in the first place. brocab, your unchristianlike ways have just been exposed once more.

rev 1:1, 4-6
King James Version
Re 1:1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

:4. John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

5. And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

you refuse to explain those verses, and you refuse to comment when someone EX plains, you prefer to add to the scriptures and find fault where there is noon.

And you expect me to listen to you, and you can't even come up with scriptures such as this? And you think you know it all?

I never expected you to listen to me, I'm just using your quotes to expose your lies.

Are you sure your father isn't Satan, you always find ways to falsely accuse me, and giving out false accusations against me, the bible told me that's Satan's job. I suppose like father' like son?

this is who my father is :
King James Version
Joh 20:17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, [/u]and your Father; and to my God, and your God.[/u]

*readers should note if brocab or solite3 will respond and explain the verse quoted above

do you accept that the father, who is the God of jesus is also your God? yes? no?

Are you casting the first stone because you can't understand the scriptures, Or are you playing dumb you can't understand scriptures the way I understand them.
And I don't keep on adding false views to any scripture, the problem we have here, is that you can't see the scriptures like I see them, only because you don't understand them, and everything I have written, you ramp and rage, casting the first stone, over words that you can't comprehend. But don't worry' someday the Lord will open up your harden heart and reveal the truth to you.

you refuse to explain the scriptures you quoted
you refuse to explain or share your views of scriptures quoted to you
you add words to the scriptures.

With those three points above, the only thing one could understand about what you are writing is that:
you twist the scriptures by adding words to it
the scriptures that you can't twist are the ones you refuse to quote and respond to .
You hide from the truth by not responding to certain scriptures cus they will expose you.

I'm not throwing stones, I'm just stating facts

johnw74:
God was manifest in the flesh:
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

stop surportin false doctrine with currupt ed words.

1 timothy 3:16
New International Version
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh,.........

New Living Translation
Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith: Christ was revealed in a human body............

English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh,.......

Berean Study Bible
By common confession, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in the flesh,..........

Berean Literal Bible
And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness: Who was revealed in the flesh,......

New American Standard Bible
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh,..........

Holman Christian Standard Bible
And most certainly, the mystery of godliness is great: He was manifested in the flesh........

International Standard Version
By common confession, the secret of our godly worship is great: In flesh was he revealed to sight,......

NET Bible
And we all agree, our religion contains amazing revelation: He was revealed in the flesh, vindicated by the the spirit.......

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
And this Mystery of Righteousness is truly great, which was revealed in the flesh...........

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The mystery that gives us our reverence for God is acknowledged to be great: He appeared in his human nature,........

New American Standard 1977
And by common confession great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was revealed in the flesh,........

American Standard Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh,........

Douay-Rheims Bible
And evidently great is the mystery of godliness, which was manifested in the flesh,........

English Revised Version
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness; He who was manifested in the flesh,........

Weymouth New Testament
And, beyond controversy, great is the mystery of our religion-- that Christ appeared in human form......

Basic English Translation (BBE)
And without argument, great is the secret of religion: He who was seen in the flesh,.....


An Historical Account of Two Notable Corruptions of Scripture

Newton argued that, by a small alteration in the Greek text, the word "God" was substituted to make the phrase read "God was manifest in the flesh." instead of "which was manifested in the flesh.". He attempted to demonstrate that early Church writers in referring to the verse knew nothing of such an alteration.

Modern translations of 1 Timothy 3:16 following the Critical Text now typically replace "God" with "He" or "He who", while the literal Emphasized has "who".

Newton did not publish these findings during his lifetime, likely due to the political climate. Those who wrote against the doctrine of the Trinity were subject to persecution in England. The Blasphemy Act 1697 made it an offence to deny one of the persons of the Trinity to be God, punishable with loss of office and employment on the first occasion, further legal ramifications on the second occasion, and imprisonment without hope for bail on the third occasion.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture

Bart D. Ehrman
“The passage in question, 1 Tim. 3:16, had long been used by advocates of orthodox theology to support the view that the New Testament itself calls Jesus God. For the text, in most manuscripts, refers to Christ as “God made manifest in the flesh, and justified in the Spirit.” As I pointed out in chapter 3, most manuscripts abbreviate sacred names (the socalled nomina sacra), and that is the case here as well, where the Greek word God (QEOS) is abbreviated in two letters, theta and sigma (QS), with a line drawn over the top to indicate that it is an abbreviation. What Wettstein noticed in examining Codex Alexandrinus was that the line over the top had been drawn in a different ink from the surrounding words, and so appeared to be from a later hand (i.e., written by a later scribe). Moreover, the horizontal line in the middle of the first letter, Q, was not actually a part of the letter but was a line that had bled through from the other side of the old vellum. In other words, rather than being the abbreviation (thetasigma) For “God” (QS), the word was actually an omicron and a sigma (OS), a different word altogether, which simply means “who.” The original reading of the manuscript thus did not speak of Christ as “God made manifest in the flesh” but of Christ “who was made manifest in the flesh.” According to the ancient testimony of the Codex Alexandrinus, Christ is no longer explicitly called God in this passage.”
https://discover-the-truth.com/2013/07/29/1-timothy-316-did-god-become-manifest-in-flesh/

1. Although the above verse in the NIV does not support the Trinity, there are some Greek manuscripts that read, “God appeared in the flesh.” This reading of some Greek manuscripts has passed into some English versions, and the King James Version is one of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however, that these Greek texts were altered by scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position. The reading of the earliest and best manuscripts is not “God” but rather “he who.” Almost all the modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent.
2. In regard to the above verse, Bruce Metzger writes:
[“He who”] is supported by the earliest and best uncials…no uncial (in the first hand) earlier than the eighth or ninth century supports theos ; all ancient versions presuppose hos or ho [“he who” or “he”]; and no patristic writer prior to the last third of the fourth century testifies to the reading theos. The reading theos arose either (a) accidentally, or (b) deliberately, either to supply a substantive for the following six verbs [the six verbs that follow in the verse], or, with less probability, to provide greater dogmatic precision [ i.e. , to produce a verse that more clearly supports the Trinitarian position].” [1]
3. When properly translated, 1 Timothy 3:16 actually argues against the Trinity. “By common confession great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Beheld by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory” ( NASB ). This section of Scripture beautifully portrays an overview of Christ’s life and accomplishments. It all fits with what we know of the man , Jesus Christ. If Jesus were God, this section of Scripture would have been the perfect place to say so. We should expect to see some phrases like, “God incarnate,” “God and Man united,” “very God and very man,” etc . But nothing like that occurs. Instead, the section testifies to what non-Trinitarians believe—that Christ was a man, begotten by the Father, and that he was taken up into glory.

www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/1-timothy-3-16

check : www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/1Tim3_16.html

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

you should have started from verse one to know who our God is

King James Version
1Jo 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.[/u]

IS JESUS THE FATHER? Noo ooooo ooooo!

King James Version
Joh 17:25O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.


King James Version
Ro 8:3, 15-17
3. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

15For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

:16The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17.And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Jesus is not God , he is an heir, that why the scripture above said they will be joint heirs with jesus after they become children of God!, with the help of Jesus Christ.

King James Version
Heb 1:2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

King James Version
Ga 4:4- 7But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5.To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

6. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

we are the son's of God
when He-God appears we will be like Him
He-God was manifested to take away our sins

Read and comment on the scriptures above(though an imposible thing for you do at the moment), it will help you clarify your confusion.

oluminnic:
@ dolphinheart, As regards the definitions of trinity and Godhead, I believe they are well explained in my write-ups.
The reason why I asked for your religion/stand was because I want to know from what angle to answer your questions, so that it wont turn to unnecessary arguement.

sir, You did not tell me what Godhead is, I want to know if your definition of trinity is a simplified version of it, secondly I want you to add the scriptures that tell us about Godhead. I'll come back to your definition of trinity later as we go along.
I believe if we are truth full, and answer each other questions to the best of our knowledge, it will be a discussion and not an arguement.

I'll be numbering my questions for easy identification
1. Yes Jesus did make mention of the father , the son, and the holy spirit, can you provide the scripture that said they are one?

2. where can we find Godhead in the bible, since you said trinity is not there?

You made this statement: "Wisdom presented 3 personalities in the Godhead to us in redemption"

this prompted the following question
3. So in the case of trinity, who was taken out of whom? who took it out?
what scripture can one use to surpport the bolded part?

You see, the Bible was written through the inspiration of HS and it can ony be understood through the breathe of the HS. It is not like other 'holy' book that a lay man can read and understand because to understand it you need revelation. This is how the bible was written and this is how trinity came about. Trinity is a terminology used to explain a revelation, the first person that got and expressed it may just have a vague idea of it and further revelations on it is dynamic; even in the bible revelation about the names of God was dynamic, first Elohim then El-Shaddai and then Jehovah.

there is a difference between "vague
idea" and totally "different idea".
This is what they said :
" , "it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds" and in their relations with one another, they are stated to be one in all else, co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial, and "each is God, whole and entire"

this is what you said:
"The father is the head; both the HS and son are subject to the father and all the 3 of them are one

can you see that your explanation on trinity is different from those that formulated the word? it is not vague, but different, in fact, the explanations are opposite of each other.
If they are not co-equal, but one is subjected to the other, then there is need for further explanation for one to know who is wrong and who is right.

The statement that "the first person that got and expressed it may just have a vague idea of it and further revelations on it is dynamic" is not accepted by me, why? , because the people who invented the word trinity, still hold on to that same definition up till today, despite the claim of further revelations.

In of the view that you should not have used their word "trinity" in simplifyin the word "godhead". They formulated it with their own definition and explanation of it, a definition and explanation which they had kept till today(and which your explanation does not surpport). If you want to simplify "godhead", I'm of the view that you should have formed your own word.

As regards the fact that father is always in need of companion. Jesus said if he does not go to the father the HS will not come...that should answer your question; when Jesus was baptized what John saw was a vision. As regards the spirit Jesus gave to his disciples, it depends on what portion of scripture you are referring to in Matt 10:1, Jesus gave them impartation but in John 20:22, he came to mark them for the downpour of the HS, because we see from the bible that the actual downpour of HS was on pentecost

I wish you would have posted the scripture where Jesus said those words so that we can examine it together. After that we will know if the reason for Jesus statement is because the father is always in need of companion.

I need further explanation on your view that what John saw was a vision, are you saying it is not real, that the holy spirit did not really come upon jesus at that moment when he came out of the Jordan?

let me show you some scripture verses on that event.
King James Version
Mr 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mr 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him.
Mr 1:12And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.

4. is verse 12 a vision too?, this is the same spirit you claim to be a vision and did not really come upon jesus!

see other scriptures too.
King James Version
Isa 11:2And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD.

King James Version
Lu 4:1And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Lu 4:14And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.

Lu 4:18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

When I said God was far away in OT, this is what I mean, God is always very near to us at all time, but in the old times, little knowledge was had, but now we have better knowledge because HS is now dwelling on our inside. What you have nearby that you dont understand is of no use to you but what you have far away that you can relate with is much better.

sir, in the OT, God was talking to his servants, he imparted knowledge into them, they had God's spirit in them, in fact God appeared to them even when they did not request for such prayers, they had prophets who for told events that will happen hundreds of years later.

We dnt have better knowledge than those in the OT, we have more knowledge than them. Just as the word of God was revealed and recorded progressively, so is the knowledge God gives mankind. that they where not given the knowledge they we have now does not mean God was far away from them, he was everly close to his faithful ones.

since the book of revelation was recorded, has mankind ever received any further revelation? no! We just get to understand better what has already been written down, no new writings.

I really do hope Ive able to answer your questions

some of the questions are still pending

francis247:
If it is not real then why do we have people and some pastors claiming they've been given a tour of heaven and hell fire by Jesus and that the torment in hell fire is great and unimaginable; that they've met people whom they knew here on earth in hell fire?

they can't even answer some of the questions posed to them here, but they claim to be pastors. my questions to one of the pastors is still pending on this thread , no answer.
We have even gone into the issue of what goes to hell, the spirit, the body or the soul. Some will defend the fire of hell with scripture that says body and soul goes to the same place, some use spirit, they will never come to a conclusion of what goes there!

solite3:
u say u follow Jesus footstep in prayer did Jesus ever mention Jehovah in prayer? pls be objective

yes!. even if I can't show you from the scriptures in which you had removed the name.

matt 6: 8,9
8 Be not therefore like them: for your Father knows what things you have need of, before you ask him.
9 After this manner therefore pray: Our Father who is in heaven, hallowed be your name.

it is people like you that will love it that Jesus did not tell us the Hallowed name of the father we should use in our prayers. you wish is to pray to someone we dnt know his name so that you can attempt to switch names.

solite3:
[b][/b] u and those questions. God's name has always been Jehovah since d days of moses.how will Jesus be revealing a name d Jews already know? U re not making sense. I asked u a question n u re asking me back? Common u re better than that show me the verse where Jesus personally said my father's name is Jehovah.yes Jesus quoted d scripture but that was not Christ own personal words was it? So d ball is on ur court

your attempt at not telling the truth will not work, you refused to quote my post where the questions was asked so as to answer a question I did not ask.
you also did so so that you will not answer other important questions, expecially the one you had been asked several times.
do not digress or infuse into the question something I did not ask you.

I asked you: jesus said he made the name of the father known, do you agree with jesus or you feel jesus lied?

If you feel jesus made the name of the father known, pls tell us, what is that name?

I also asked you:
yes, there is only one name given, who gave that name? what is the name of the one who gave the name to mankind?

I also signified you will evade this question and you did not prove me wrong:
does Jesus have a God that he is subjected to ?



note: I did not ask you gods name, I asked you the FATHER NAME?, even if you think God and the father are the same person, pls stick to the question and answer it!

you are just trying to bring an issue which you think will help you to call jesus a liar, Jesus would have on several occasions made the name of the father known as he said he had done. that you can't see in the NT where Jesus called the fathers name does not mean.
1. that Jesus lied when he said he had made the name known
2. that Jesus did not mention the fathers name
3. that the father has no name.

It means
1. your for father's have been partially successfully in their attempt to remove the fathers name from the NT, they could have been more successful with the OT if they had been in control of all the copies.

Jesus quoted an OT verse in whicH the name of the father is mentioned, but you feel jesus quoted that verse, but removed the name of the father when he made it known. There is nothing you guys will not do just to perpetuate this false doctrines.

It is recently that I now fully understood why God kept older manuscripts of the scriptures hidden. you would have tampered with it.

oluminnic:
@dolphinheart,
All your questions are easy to answer
But to know how to do that
I will need to know if you are muslim/witness/athiest etc
A private session will do

sir, the truth does not need to determine who I aM before it expresses itself. The word of God will not change its meaning cus of what I am, neither will your views change depending on who you are talking to .

Just answer the questions based on what you believe in, if there are issues with your explanations , I'll first ask for clarifications.

promise101:
The father, Jesus(word- john 1:14) and the holyspirit are ONE.


I know that the case of trinity has been a confused case to so many people, but looking at it from all angles of the scriptures you will discover that it is very simple to understand.


Now, to start with this, you have to know, that "The father", "Son" and "The holyspirit" are CONCEPTS OF REDEMPTION. They are not different personalities, they are one person REVEALING himself in these different ways, and the ONLY purpose for revealing himself in this way is for the purpose of man's redemption.

If there was no need for redemption, there wouldn't be the MANIFESTATION of anything like Jesus or holspirit, but it doesn't mean that they started to exist at the time of their manifestation. No, they were GOD as ONE in the beginning.

Now, I will used the below example to explain to you better.

1. I am God(just an example)

2. Before I created the world, I, God was a spirit, the Jesus and the holyspirit which you know now, were also a spirit with me, with no flesh, not visible, not restricted to a place(we were everywhere). We all existed THEN AS ONE SPIRIT.

3. At the time of creation, when I said "Come let us make man in our own image." I wasn't calling different persons, because the I, Jesus and the holyspirit you know now, were ONE spirit and not a human being and beside I haven't created anybody. I was calling my ENTIRE SPIRIT IN CONCENTRATION.

4 Before I created the world I never intended to take myself out of myself, in the person of the Jesus and the holy spirit you know.

5. Finally, the reason why I had to take myself out of myself(a spirit), was because of man's redemption.

6. I created man and gave man the dominion over the earth and it's inhabitants,(I gave all to them, not having any because I wanted them to take care of it all and not me taking care of the earth) but the devil deceived them, which made them to disobey me. And through them damnation came into humanity.

7. And because of that, nobody had what it will take to deliver others from damnation, because the person has to deliver himself first, before delivering others.

8. And for the person to deliver himself he has to pay for the wages of his OWN ETERNAL SiNS FIRST, which is ETERNAL DEATH IN HELL. No way!

9. Now, I coming by myself, was the only way to help my people.

9. And because of that, I decided to take my self out of MYSELF, by making an incarnate son of myself, which you now know as the person of Jesus. See john 1:1 and 14.

10. The incarnate son of myself which I made to be born with no sexual consent, and was as well made in a SINLESS nature, was PART of me but in flesh, that was just a way to help you(mankind) by laying on my flesh the ETERNTAL SINS of the whole world of ETERNITY, and taking it's ETERNAL punishment COMPRESSED IN 3 DAYS(time). Why? Because I am an ETERNAL BEING.

11 And when the incarnate son of myself was in flesh, I was still one with that incarnate son of myself, because without him I am INCOMPLETE, because he WAS IN ME as ONE until the need of man's REDEMPTION came, which in other words means, that without the incarnate son of myself(flesh), I am powerless to save man from their eternal damnation. Because the case of redemption was a LEGAL case where JUSTICE is considered, ALL in order. And the rule for the justice is this; "MAN , THROUGH SIN(adam) LOST THE DOMINION, MAN WITH A SINLESS NATURE, BUT DYING FOR THE SINS OF OTHERS, RECOVERS THE DOMINION FOR ALL". I needed to come in a sinless nature so that I wouldn't be under the captivity of the devil(because I am his creator) and as such, wouldn't be any need to deliver myself first before delivering others, otherwise messes up the whole way.

12. Does it mean that I can't deliver man by any other means? No, not that, because I am the almighty.

13. I am a God of JUSTICE. And I playing injustice is a disappointment to my personality. And the only way to play Justice is to make a SINLESS man out of myself, who will take the punishment of the eternal sins of other(because I am an eternal being). Therefore, restoring the dominion to humanity, because I have been punished for anything(eternal sin) that will make their dominion to be taken away from them by the devil

14. And it worked!

15. But why do I have to go all this way to save them, disregarding my personality? Because, I really LOVE them SO MUCH, and to prove it I had to save them AT ALL COST.

16. When Jesus(my son) was about to go, he promised the holyspirit to come. And that was also me. In the book of john, I told you through my incarnate son of myself the need for the holyspirit to come, so that he can dwell with you FOREVER.



WE ARE ONE, REVEALED IN DIFFERENT DIMENSION!!!!!!

@ bolded, now that is a different concept of trinity, this is why it is good to know the view of the individual who believes in trinity, cus your definition and concept is different froM the one the op layed down and also from the one the proponents of the word "trinity" gave.

will wait to see if other believers of trinity (with different concept) counter or surpport your concept, or if they will keep quiet!

oluminnic:
Trinity

Not a word found in the bible but a term used to simplify the Godhead in the bible. Jesus recognized 3 persons that are important- the father, the son and the HG. And the bible also tells us that they are one. In the beginning we understand that God the father used the word let us. How could this be, could it be that God is not one as the bible says.

someone who does not know what the trinity is would like to know what it is and what Godhead is. This will help him or she to know if a term(not in the bible) can be used to, and if indeed it really simplifies the Godhead.

so can you tell us
1. what is trinity?
2. what is Godhead?
3. where can we find Godhead in the bible, since you said trinity is not there?

Yes jesus did make mention of the father , the son, and the holy spirit, can you provide the scripture that said they are one?
what is the relationship between the father son and holy spirit?

It is the path of wisdom
Same way it was for man that the woman was taken out of man and the two remains as one, so it is with the son and HS with the father. Wisdom presented 3 personalities in the Godhead to us in redemption

So in the case of trinity, who was taken out of whom? who took it out?
what scripture can one use to surpport the bolded part?

Roles
in
The father proposes. The son arranges the order of things. The HS accomplishes it (Job 26:5, Ps 104:29). The father approves it (it is good). The father is not complete as Godhead without the son and the spirit. The spirit is an aspect of Godhead formed into a whole. The HS is the power of God. The word is an aspect of Godhead formed into a whole prov 28:22-23.the word is the wisdom of God. The father is the head; both the HS and son are subject to the father and all the 3 of them are one

This is now confusing, cus according to those who created the word trinity, this is what they said:

"According to this central mystery of some Christian faiths, there is only one God in three persons: while distinct from one another in their relations of origin (as theFourth Lateran Council declared, "it is the Father who generates, the Son who is begotten, and the Holy Spirit who proceeds" and in their relations with one another, they are stated to be one in all else, co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial, and "each is God, whole and entire". Accordingly, the whole work of creation and grace is seen as a single operation common to all three divine persons, in which each shows forth what is proper to him in the Trinity, so that all things are "from the Father", "through the Son" and "in the Holy Spirit"."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

how can we align the bolded part of your comment with the bolded part of the words above?

The father is always in need of companion
Both the spirit and the son cannot leave him at the same time. When one is on assignment the other stays with him. When jesus was sent, both the father and the spirit were together Isaiah 48:16. Before the HS was released to commence his ministry, Jesus had to go to the father. In the beginning when the HS was hovering the face of the sea, the son was with the father Gen 1:2, prov 8:30, john 1:1,3

this is interesting!
when Jesus was baptized, what came like a dove to earth was not the real holy spirit right?
Or if it was the holy spirit, it quickly went back to the father after the incident?
what about the spirit jesus used to perform his powerful works, what about the spirit jesus gave to his disciples when he was on earth with them.? Can you shed more light on these?

The ministry of HS
Monitoring and ensuring what God has set in place
There is no difference between OT & NT manifestations of HS but some things are different- God was far away in OT but very near in NT, so most things were known in minute part in OT but in NT we are in the kingdom and we know things better. However for the HS, it doesnt matter if God was far away or near, it does its work (people of faith still received Christ even before he came, Hebrews11:23-26) thereby producing fruit. But the closeness to God matters to man- hope, assurance of the promises of God, fulfillment of Gods promises. In the NT our spirits were recreated, it became alive, able to relate with God. The HS also came to dwell in us.

wow! , I thought the trinity stated that the holy spirit is God, how come you say God was far away in the OT. Did God not show his hand in OT more than in the NT. did the holy spirit not be in people and give them power in the OT.?
I do not see a difference between the OT and NT, the scriptures is just one continous record or the word of God.

Adapted from www.christianlifeissues.com

will love to hear your own views.

dolphinheart:
So you are still calling jesus a liar, he did not make the fathers name known, yet he claimed to make the fathers name known!

If you believe in the scriptures and you believe Jesus made the fathers name known, pls tell us , what is that name?

your refusal to do so in your next post will solidify my beliefs that you are in league with those desperate to cover up the name which jesus had made known.

yes, there is only one name given, who gave that name? what is the name of the one who gave the name to mankind?

will be watching in 3D to see if you can answer.

another question I know you will evade: does jesus have a God that he is subjected to ?

do I follow jesus footstep in prayer? yes I do

Solite3, still waiting for response

tunnypop:
[b][/b]

When jesus made these statement he was already in the world of flesh and blood.
John 1:14 "And the word was made flesh and dwelt amongst us..."

you did not answer all my questions.
Ok lets assume the word was made flesh, and thus became lesser than the father, pls tell us,
1. is the word still flesh and blood at this moment ?
2. If yes, is the father still greater than jesus?

brocab:
Here I go again, its hard when one has to explain the verses when another doesn't understand them. Ok lets give Revelation some style by using other scriptures to back it up {Revelation 1:6} that will help explain this hole chapter.
Firstly lets clear up your so called theory about Solite3 and brocab "Are they the same person? Lets read what God says who we are.
{1 Corinthians 6:17} But the person who is united with the Lord is one Spirit with Him.
{John 17:21} That all of them may be one, Father just as you are one in Me, and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe, that you have sent Me.
Does these two verses clear it up for you? Solite3 and brocab are one in Christ. And Christ is one in us. So does this mean we are also Christ' your God as well? Or does it mean we are three?

the truth about you and solite3 will be cleared soon, if truly you are in Christ, it will be easy for you to give explanation on certain scriptures, let's see

Shall we continual? {Revelation 1} The revelation of Jesus Christ, which "God" gave Him to show to His bond servants-the things which must shortly take place.
And He sent and communicated it through His Angel {Messenger} to His bond servant John. {2} who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all he saw.
Lets quickly look over to> {Revelation 1:9} "I John", your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and the kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the Island called Patmos, because of the "word of God" and the "testimony of Jesus".
{3} Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this Prophesy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

every one can see that you can't explain what you read there, explaining or giving your understanding of what his written will throw your false doctrine out. You are now a tad better than solite3 who can't even qoute one of them.

King James Version
Re 1:1[u]The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him,[/u] to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

what do we learn from here(pls if I'm wrong, list the number and respond to it)
1. The revelation was giving to jesus by God!,

2. For the revelation to be giving to jesus by God, it means jesus is not the same person as the God mentioned in rev 1:1

3. Jesus is not the author of the revelation, but God is. He gave it to jesus, who gave it his angle who now passed it to John.
King James Version
Da 2:28But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets,..........

]Am 3:7For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing Unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets.
* could not quote from the king James Version cus it has removed the name of the Sovereign Lord in that verse.(an issue you always run away from)

Lets look at> {Revelation 22:7} {Jesus said} And behold I am coming Quickly Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophesy of this Book.

@ bolded, you keep adding personal false views to the scriptures.

{4} John" to be the seven assemblies {Churches} that are in Asia; Grace to you and Peace, from Him {Jesus} who is and who was and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne;

kindly tell us where you got this from!

Now lets read> {Revelation 1:9-13} "I John" your brother and fellow partaker in tribulation and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the Island called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ, {10} "{John said} I was in the spirit" on the Lords day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet. {11} saying "I am the Alpha and the Omega the first and the last," and what you see write in a book and send it to the seven Churches. {12} Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden Lampstands, {13} and in the midst of the Lampstands One like the Son of man. {Jesus} Lets continual reading down from verses {17-19} And when I saw Him I feel at His feet as a dead man, and He laid His right hand upon me and said do not be afraid, I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive for ever more. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of death.
And Jesus said to John write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.
We have got to get this right-Now lets go to> {Revelation 22:7, 12-13, 20.} {Jesus said} Behold I am coming Quickly. Bless is He who keeps the words of this prophesy of the book. {12} And behold I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work. {13} I am the Alpha and the Omega. {20} He who testifies to these things says, 'Surely "I am" coming Quickly." Amen. {John said} Even so come Lord Jesus.
Back too> {Revelation 1:5} And from Jesus Christ, " the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us, and released us from our sins" by His blood.
Lets continual too> {Psalm 89:27} I will make Him my first-born, the highest of the kings of the earth. {6} And He has made us to be a Kingdom priest, to His God and Father. {7-8} {John} Behold Jesus is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. Even so Amen. {Jesus} "I am" the Alpha and the Omega says the Lord God {Again the scriptures tells us Jesus is the Lord God} "WHO IS, AND WHO WAS AND WHO IS TO COME, THE ALMIGHTY. And we read down further, John said in verse {17-19} He saw Jesus after falling at Hid feet as dead, John said Jesus laid His right hand upon him saying do not be afraid I am the first and the last,{18} the living One: I was dead, and behold, I am alive for ever more, and I have the keys of death and hades. {19} Jesus said to John, write therefore the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things shall take place, after these things.

apart from the fact that this is one of the most muddled up post I've ever read, you deliberately refused to quote the scriptures I requested for, neither did you give an explanation on it.

Only requested verse quoted so far by you is rev 1:1,5, and no explanation was added .
you jumped verse 4 and refused to quote and explain verse 6.
people see your actions brocab, they see what you are doing , and from your actions, they know you are desperately trying to hide the truth from them.

The badder part of your post is the use of the name jesus in verses it did not occur, so as to surpport your false doctrine

rev 1: 4-6
King James Version
Re 1:4John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Re 1:5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Re 1:6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

the verses above are the verses you have vehemently refused to quote and explain.
what do we understand by what is written in these verses brocab and solite3.

1. John was sending a greeting to the seven congregations from different persons, first person is him, which was, which is and which is to come. These one has a throne and the seven spirits are before it. These spirits are also sending their greetings.
rev chapter 4 helps us to know that the one seated on these throne is God.

2. Rev 1:5 now mentions jesus( in these case, the word jesus is really mentioned in the verse, unlike the ones you quoted), it start with " and from Jesus christ". John specifically seperated those who where doing the greetings, first was the one on the throne, next where the seven spirits, next was jesus Christ. This signifies that this greetings where from seperate persons.

3. note : for later discussion who the faithful witness is, he is jesus!

4. John said Jesus is the first begotten of the dead, this signifies that Jesus was once dead!

5. John now said in verse 6, and hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;. If jesus where the God John was talking about , he would not made this statement. This verse shows the reasons why you have been running away from it, cus it tells you plainly that the father is the God of jesus, just as other scriptures you had turned a blind eye to have done! e.g heb 1:9.

Other translations translate John's words in that verse as:

[b]New International Version
and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father..........

New Living Translation
He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father.......

English Standard Version
and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father,.......

Berean Study Bible
who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father........

Berean Literal Bible
and He has made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father.......

New American Standard Bible 
and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father........

Holman Christian Standard Bible
and made us a kingdom, priests to His God and Father........

International Standard Version
and has made us a kingdom, priests for his God and Father,......

NET Bible
and has appointed us as a kingdom, as priests serving his God and Father.......

GOD'S WORD® Translation
and has made us a kingdom, priests for God his Father...........

New American Standard 1977 
and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father;

American Standard Version
and he made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and Father;...

Darby Bible Translation
and made us a kingdom, priests to his God and Father:....

English Revised Version
and he made us to be a kingdom, to be priests unto his God and father

Weymouth New Testament
and has formed us into a Kingdom, to be priests to God, His Father--to Him be ascribed the glory and the power until the Ages of the Ages. Amen.

World English Bible
and he made us to be a Kingdom, priests to his God and Father; to him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen.[/b]

wow!, brocab and solite3, DO YOU AGREE WITH WHAT JOHN SAID THEIR OR YOU STILL FEEL THAT JESUS DOES NOT HAVE GOD ?!

CAN THE ALMIGHTY HAVE A GOD? Noo ooooo!
DOES JEHOVAH HAVE A GOD? Noo ooooo!
IS JEHOVAH THE ALMIGHTY GOD ? yes ssess!

DOES JESUS HAVE A GOD? yes!
IS JESUS THE ALMIGHTY GOD? no !
IS THE FATHER THE GOD OF JESUS? yes?

non of these points can be disproved by you, so you prefer not to mention them. You prefer to follow your false doctrines which you can only defend through derived analysis, putting your own words into the scriptures so that it will look as if it's talking about someone else.

The apostles and Jesus had specifically told you who God is, I'll qoute it, bold it and capitalise it for all to see.

JOHN 20: 17
(King James Version)
JESUS SAITH UNTO HER, TOUCH ME NOT; FOR I AM NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER: BUT GO TO MY BRETHREN, AND SAY UNTO THEM, I ASCEND UNTO MY FATHER, AND YOUR FATHER, AND TO MY GOD, AND YOUR GOD!.

brocab, do you accept that Jesus has a God and he told you that his God is your God? or will you run from this scripture and not quote it?

King James Version
Eph 1:3[b]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,[/b] who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

I have written these verses separately, and you couldn't understand them than, and you still won't understand these verses now, only because you don't read anything I have written.

you have not only muddled up you quotes, you have added words to verses such words did not exist. you have also refused to quote certain verses as requested.
your refusal to qoute and explain those other verses shows your intentions, you dnt want the scriptures to be complete, you want to create contradictions and spread your false doctrines through it.

I had asked about {Revelation 1:7:8} in your bible the New World Translation bible, and you run from these two verses, only because you believe your bible scholars had made a mistake, you coward away from these two verses, trying to convince others they didn't exist. And the JW's admitted in writing ehovah God is Jesus Christ.

you are liar brocab , I have not run away from those verses, ive told you to tell us what you understand by the preceding first 6 verses, and I'll tell you what 7 and 8 says, these you have refused to do up till this moment. I also told you to tell us who is talking in rev 3: 2,12, and this you had vehemently refused to do.

It is you on the other hand who has refused to respond to scripture based questions and scriptures, the list will be posted below again.

[b] (1)Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.
(2)Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.
(3) Tell me brocad, which organization today does these(the preaching work) best, the way Jesus proscribed and the disciples practised. I know you know it, but hatred will now allow you mention them.
(4)You cannot attempt to answer the questions :
When you say he is spirit, are you saying God is the spirit in Jesus when he was here on earth?
Pls say yes and ill show you how much of your doctrines is full of falsehood.
Saying no will show that your doctrine lacks prove.(I believe you wunt answer anyway)
5. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
6. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
7. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
8. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
9. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.
You can't do this :
Simply quote and explain rev 1:1-6 from any translation of your choice
Tell use who is talking in rev 3:2,12
pls explain the scriptures
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9:11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18
Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty ![/b]

maybe solite3, can help you out, or rather not!

solite3:
haha there is only one name given to man,which the apostles used n that name is Jesus. even Jesus addresses God as father when teaching us how to pray not even Jehovah do u follow Jesus footstep in prayer? maybe not.case closed

So you are still calling jesus a liar, he did not make the fathers name known, yet he claimed to make the fathers name known!

If you believe in the scriptures and you believe Jesus made the fathers name known, pls tell us , what is that name?

your refusal to do so in your next post will solidify my beliefs that you are in league with those desperate to cover up the name which jesus had made known.

yes, there is only one name given, who gave that name? what is the name of the one who gave the name to mankind?

will be watching in 3D to see if you can answer.

another question I know you will evade: does jesus have a God that he is subjected to ?

do I follow jesus footstep in prayer? yes I do

Molake94:
Can U pls explain what 1st john 5:7 means:....... Which says

For there are three that bear record in heaven,
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and
these three are one.

sorry for jumping in, but the bolded part of your quote cannot be found in most translations of 1 john 5:7, do you care to know why?

solite3:
brocab has explained it to u BT u refuse to accept keep on running from the truth

I now officially classify you as a liar and false acuser!

PLS SHOW WHERE BROCAB EXPLAINED THE SCRIPTURES I POSTED TO YOU.!

I'm beginning to suspect that brocab and solite3 are the same person, both of them go blind when certain scriptures are posted to them. They try every method possible to twist away from giving there understanding of certain scriptures, yet they are quick to claim knowledge of the Scriptures.

let's see again if anyone of them can quote and explain this scriptures
1. rev 1:1,4-6
2. Heb 1: 9

simple question, pls tell us who you think is talking in rev 3:2,12!

brocab:
To be honest, I actually don't know what sort of teachings you JW's believe in, only because none of are honest enough to share about it.

your lying nature has not left you, you had been listing your false knowledge about Jehovahs withnesses from page 1 of these thread, you claimed to have discussed with them, to have read their books, to have been to their kingdom halls, see now you have changed your lies to not knowing their teachings again, the same teachings you had been against. They have been telling you their teachings since page 1, using the scriptures as a guide to teach you, but you will not listen, preferring to stick to your false lies and false views of Jehovah's Witnesses.

I'll ask you a series of questions and post a series of verses at the end of these post, let's see if you are now honest enough to share your views on those scriptures or you will continue to act as if it does not exist.

And of course I have tried asking some JW's, about your religion, and like many, you too' have taken my questions and answers the wrong way.
None what so ever have taken the bible seriously, like I do, you either try to re-arrange words taken from the bible, cursing me with words of hatred, casting the first stone against myself and the word, I had one of you JW's call the bible a lie, a miss print.

not taking the bible seriously?, you have proven beyond doubt to be the one who refuses to explain the scriptures. who changes the topic anytime a scripture or question you dnt like is posted to you.

You had once use this lie of rearranging scripture so as not to quote certain verses, I resorted to quoting from the kjv to you, but you still refused to accept the truth, even from the kjv. You say they twisted the scriptures, yet you cant/ refuse to quote those scriptures in your own bible and explain what is written their. You wunt do it, and you wunt believe those who can do it!.

And it's your bible that holds the truth about God.
You must get it into your heads' we born again Christians are not against you, we are simply pointing out the word of God, not with a bible that's half written like the New World Translation, but from a bible I believe shows more of the truth about God, then any other bible that's written, the 1611 version.

you claim to be born again, yet you can't answer scriptural questions. You claim to know the bible, yet you refuse to quote and explain certain verses found in your bible.

Your bible isn't finished yet, and I do hope someday you all will understand the word of God, just as the Lord is teaching it to us from the beginning.
{John 8:44} You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murder from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth. Because their is no truth in Him.

I've shown your with evidence, where your translations added words to the original scriptures, you could not dispute it. I've shown you with evidence, where your translation removed the name of God "Jehovah" , and replaced it with something else, but you always run and change the discussion whenever such facts are presented to you.

{Revelation 2:12-13}Tells that Satan dwells in a Church. "And to the angel of the Church of Pegamos where Satan dwells,
{2 Corinthians 11:14} For Satan Himself is transformed into an angel of light.
{Job 1:6-12} One day the angels came in to present themselves to the lord and Satan came with them, and the Lord said to Satan where have you come from. "Satan answered the Lord" From roaming throughout the earth, going back and fourth into it.
{Revelation 12:10} The accuser had been caste down to earth. 10 makes it clear Satan has been accusing our brothers and sisters day and night before God.
I could write on about Satan-but I don't want to push you over with words you may not even recognize because your bible may not have even mention the above?

you could not quote those verses because you know that if you do so, this explanations will be proven to be false.

can you see yourself, you started talking about Satan when you the question of when Satan was expelled from heaven came up and you have been found wanting. Nobody asked for your knowledge of Satan, they just want you to prove that satan was thrown down to the earth before adam was created of after adam was created.

below are some of the scripture based questions you refused to answer, and some of the scripture verses you refused to see, quote and explain.

[b](1)Just tell us the name of the church you associate with, that you are a member of!. If possible you can include its official website, at least you surpport using technology in Gods work.

(2)Tell us, do you know that Jesus Christ told someone that he has a God? And that statement was recorded in the kjv.? Can you tell us where this can be found?
If you can't answer this question brocab, then you dnt know the truth about Christ!.
Expecially. The one spoken by Jesus himself.

(3) Tell me brocad, which organization today does these(the preaching work) best, the way Jesus proscribed and the disciples practised. I know you know it, but hatred will now allow you mention them.

(4)You cannot attempt to answer the questions :
When you say he is spirit, are you saying God is the spirit in Jesus when he was here on earth?
Pls say yes and ill show you how much of your doctrines is full of falsehood.
Saying no will show that your doctrine lacks prove.(I believe you wunt answer anyway)

5. If you say one body, one spirit, was Jesus a spirit before he came to earth?
6. When Jesus was on earth, was the spirit in him his, the father or the holy spirit.?
7. After Jesus left the earth, did he remain in the body or became a spirit?
8. What does Jesus mean by " the father is greater than I am"
9. Why does Jesus say he is going to the father when you are trying to say he is spirit.


You can't do this :
Simply quote and explain rev 1:1-6 from any translation of your choice

Tell use who is talking in rev 3:2,12



pls explain the scriptures
1.rev 1:1,6
2. Rev 3, 2,13
3. John 17:1-3
4. Heb 1:1 -9
5. John 20:17
6. 1 cor 11:3
7 . 1 ti 2 :5,6
8.Acts 4:10
9. Acts 2:36
10. Acts 2:24
11. Acts 5:30
12.Acts 10:38,40,43
11. Phil 2:9:11
12. john 14:6
13. Acts 4 : 26,27, 30
14. 1 john 4:14
15. Heb 5:7
16. ps 28:18

Brocab , examine these scripture
Acts 5: 31.
Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
John 3:16.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth
in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.

Jesus is Gods only begotten son, Jesus is not God almighty ![/b]

solite3:
u re funny pls show me d verse where Jesus called his father Jehovah

you are the one playing funny, you are the one trying to paint jesus a liar, you are in league with those who had removed gods name from the scriptures.
you have been shown where Jesus called the name of his God. you refused that scripture, you are now asking me to show you again.

Let us even assume jesus did not mention that name, you are now using that to claim that Jesus was lying when he said he had made the name of the father known?
If jesus is not lying, what is the name of the father that Jesus made known if not JEHOVAH!

solite3:
[s][/s]

John 17: 25,26(ESV)
O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me.
26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

you have just shown that you dnt read the scriptures at all.

What is the name that Jesus made known? bet you can never ever answer that question.